They keep on recruiting new dudes to replace the dead ones, and I assume that the Guard can even replace Shaeffer with some cosmetically-modified body double to continue the legend.
Also, I don't see anything wrong with having rules for dead models.
It'd be a bit weird to have, say, Horus in 40k, since he was NEVER around for it.
But Yarrick or the Last Chancers? Sure, give 'em rules.
Modern GW seems to have moved away from 'historical' characters and insisting on having everyone existing in the 'present'. So we'll never see the likes of Macharius again.
They keep on recruiting new dudes to replace the dead ones, and I assume that the Guard can even replace Shaeffer with some cosmetically-modified body double to continue the legend.
Yeah; but that defeats the point of bringing back the characters you remember if they're not actually the characters you remember.
Wasn’t the nightbringer leaked as part of KT? So if we are going to get rules for KT vs. giant demi-god level things (which narratively is very cool) it would be appropriate for a “regular” KT to be tasked with taking down Sly…
The last chancers were all archetypes anyway. It’s not like they had proper names other than Schaeffer anyway, and even that could be made into a title rather than a name.
I rather liked the idea that you could make an army from any time after the Heresy.
They keep on recruiting new dudes to replace the dead ones, and I assume that the Guard can even replace Shaeffer with some cosmetically-modified body double to continue the legend.
Also, I don't see anything wrong with having rules for dead models.
It'd be a bit weird to have, say, Horus in 40k, since he was NEVER around for it.
But Yarrick or the Last Chancers? Sure, give 'em rules.
Modern GW seems to have moved away from 'historical' characters and insisting on having everyone existing in the 'present'. So we'll never see the likes of Macharius again.
Gaunt's Ghosts are from centuries before the "current" time. I assume that if there's a cool mini to be made, they'll just make it, without worrying about the historical inaccuracy.
I've just come to the realization that...I'm the only one who actually likes the new Iron Hands combat patrol? There's loads of Youtube videos taking the mickey out it....
Those turrets are Tarantulas straight out of Mission: Dreadnought! What's not to love?
Modern GW seems to have moved away from 'historical' characters and insisting on having everyone existing in the 'present'. So we'll never see the likes of Macharius again.
Gaunt's Ghosts are from centuries before the "current" time. I assume that if there's a cool mini to be made, they'll just make it, without worrying about the historical inaccuracy.
Oh, yeah... I keep thinking of them as 'Black Library special models', when they're actually in the Codex for some baffling reason. It's not like one can make a Ghosts army by-the-book to back them up, even. Weird.
cuda1179 wrote: I'd love to see the return of the Last Chancers with all their special rules. 12 independent Characters, and optional transport
A guy at my FLGS ran them for about a year with some success back when the Vehicle Design Rules were a thing.
They would make a great Kill Team box. Twelve Specialists with diverse skills, including one nutcase to lead them sounds like a slightly more organised version of the Sanctifiers.
They keep on recruiting new dudes to replace the dead ones, and I assume that the Guard can even replace Shaeffer with some cosmetically-modified body double to continue the legend.
Yeah; but that defeats the point of bringing back the characters you remember if they're not actually the characters you remember.
Shaef(f)er is the only real special character here since 2nd edition. They had a bunch of weird freaks in 3rd edition and then a character (who died) from Gav Thorpes novels. They could easily bring the colonel back as an even more augmented cyborg commanding nameless prisoners. And yes, a KT would be cool.
We do have a Prime on foot. It's part of its unit box, just like the Mega-Armour Big Mek and Allarus Shield-Captains for example.
It and the Neurothrope were essentially removed as datasheets and demoted to line grunts for seemingly arbitrary reasons instead of being given the same treatment as aforementioned units, but the miniatures are very much still there.
Ashiraya wrote: We do have a Prime on foot. It's part of its unit box, just like the Mega-Armour Big Mek and Allarus Shield-Captains for example.
It and the Neurothrope were essentially removed as datasheets and demoted to line grunts for seemingly arbitrary reasons instead of being given the same treatment as aforementioned units, but the miniatures are very much still there.
Probably due to 10th unit pricing. They want the points to be simple, one box=points x, 2 boxes =points 2x. If you can build a character out of the unit box you end up with entries like the harlequin troope.
Ultras have always been well served with transfers, but sculpted pads can be nice? Some of the extras on the sprue seemed fun, but nothing earthshattering. Transfer sheet is actually more appealing to me then the plastic.
CP is kinda of a mish mash of units. The old school Ultra in me likes the fact that it;s got something from every FOC slot. A lot of duplicate stuff from what I own personally, but I still might grab it for the few things I could use.
Too bad there is a named character in the new Ultramarines CP... This makes it less desireable for long-time collectors who certainly already have a Tigurius model, although if the price is right the presence of the new upgrade sprue may make it worthwhile from a money perspective.
CorwinB wrote: Too bad there is a named character in the new Ultramarines CP... This makes it less desireable for long-time collectors who certainly already have a Tigurius model, although if the price is right the presence of the new upgrade sprue may make it worthwhile from a money perspective.
Did it need more to disincentivize multiple sales then the squad of reivers? I guess so…
(Oddly, I never got around to picking up the new Tiggy, so that’s not a bother for me)
Plenty of scope to defray the costs by selling the new Tiggy on e-bay for £20 if you have one already. Would the bigger problem be the Reivers? I don't play particularly, but I haven't seen them getting much good press.
Flinty wrote: Plenty of scope to defray the costs by selling the new Tiggy on e-bay for £20 if you have one already. Would the bigger problem be the Reivers? I don't play particularly, but I haven't seen them getting much good press.
They have a bunch of special rules to get around. 6” scout, deep strike, ignore vertical distance. But when they get where they need to go? Kinda don’t have the weapons to actually do much.
GW has been tweaking them since they came out. Never really made them worth it IMHO. Which is a shame, as they look pretty cool.
Flinty wrote: Plenty of scope to defray the costs by selling the new Tiggy on e-bay for £20 if you have one already. Would the bigger problem be the Reivers? I don't play particularly, but I haven't seen them getting much good press.
They got bad press because on release they were billed as the primaris assault marines (which they are not good at), then they were immediately relegated to 3rd best phobos boltgun squad when incursors/infiltrators made them redundant. For the actually important job of scoring points though they are really good, as they are kind of cheap, slightly more mobile than normal, and you will never regret having them prioritise doing actions instead of fighting.
Flinty wrote: Plenty of scope to defray the costs by selling the new Tiggy on e-bay for £20 if you have one already. Would the bigger problem be the Reivers? I don't play particularly, but I haven't seen them getting much good press.
Fayric wrote: Isnt it just like GW to put bladeguard in a box shortly after they announce new fancy honor guard.
Same thought.
Nothing wrong with BGVs. They are lovely models. If I didn’t already have 9 that would be a draw for me. Or would have been if we didn’t know the Victrix are on the radar. But I agree most Ultra players are going to want the chapter specific hotness over these.
So we have a chapter specific named character with a unit most people who play that chapter will treat as second class over a bespoke chapter one.
This box has a lot of mixed messages going on. I suspect it will not sell great.
PenitentJake wrote:My kingdom for a box of DW shoulderpads including:
10x Tacticus/ Firstborn
10x Phobos
5 or 10x Terminator/ Gravis
WAY more necessary- two termie pads on an upgrade sprue is lame- you need three frames to create one 5 man unit of termies!
tauist wrote:The new UM upgrade kit looks surprisingly good. I can only hope BA get something as pleasing some time down the line..
Especially love the sculpted chapter logos you can use for vehicle doors and that. Gorgeous
Who’s received new upgrade sprues? There were the old firstborn ones, another round of primaris ones, and now these 2nd wave primaris ones. Just Ultras and DA at this point?
The last time I saw a Dark Angel's Deathwing, they were the not-quite-Primaris sized guys.
I could be mistaken. I thought they had got a fresh upgrade since the new termies dropped.
Edit:
My go-to for minis over editions (https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Portal:Miniatures) had both DA and BA upgrades in 10th. As we got the new termies with the Leviathan box, I’d assume the pads would work with them. Might not be backwards compatible with the DA specific terminators. But then, they would not needs the extra chapter bling, as it’s baked into their kit.
So uh, with all the FB units getting upgrades now and/or rumored to be, is this the end of Primaris? In the sense that they'll be getting no more new units anymore?
Primaris was always just an excuse to have a mix of model sizes while they rolled out the resculpts. Now that they've more or less completely replaced the firstborn stuff, Primaris are just what Marines are without the need for distinction.
Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote: So uh, with all the FB units getting upgrades now and/or rumored to be, is this the end of Primaris? In the sense that they'll be getting no more new units anymore?
No? Why would you think that? The only FB units getting upgrades are terminators, everything else is a primaris upgrade.
Ashiraya wrote: We do have a Prime on foot. It's part of its unit box, just like the Mega-Armour Big Mek and Allarus Shield-Captains for example.
It and the Neurothrope were essentially removed as datasheets and demoted to line grunts for seemingly arbitrary reasons instead of being given the same treatment as aforementioned units, but the miniatures are very much still there.
Probably due to 10th unit pricing. They want the points to be simple, one box=points x, 2 boxes =points 2x. If you can build a character out of the unit box you end up with entries like the harlequin troope.
You end up with entries like aforementioned Big Mek in Mega-Armour (see meganobz) or Allarus Shield-Captain (see Allarus Terminators).
Yes, it results in ridiculous unit sizes, but that's an issue with 10th edition army building, and it's arbitrary that exceptions were made for some characters but not others.
Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote: So uh, with all the FB units getting upgrades now and/or rumored to be, is this the end of Primaris? In the sense that they'll be getting no more new units anymore?
No? Why would you think that? The only FB units getting upgrades are terminators, everything else is a primaris upgrade.
I think it's a pretty valid question.
Marines have become a bloated range with a lot of random units that feel unnecessary like Reivers, Suppressors, and Inceptors. With the most recent additions having been Terminators, Sternguard Vets, and Scouts; it does feel like they are moving back to older unit layouts.
Plus Valrak has continued to say with confidence that 11th edition Marines are getting Vanguard Vets and a nu-Tactical Squad. It's not impossible to imagine the Tactics armored units getting consolidated into Tacticals, Gravis into nu-Devastators, and Phobos just being kept as is.
That alone would prune down the range massively, still keep most current models usable, and the upgrade sprues wouldn't even need to change.
Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote: So uh, with all the FB units getting upgrades now and/or rumored to be, is this the end of Primaris? In the sense that they'll be getting no more new units anymore?
No? Why would you think that? The only FB units getting upgrades are terminators, everything else is a primaris upgrade.
I think it's a pretty valid question.
Marines have become a bloated range with a lot of random units that feel unnecessary like Reivers, Suppressors, and Inceptors. With the most recent additions having been Terminators, Sternguard Vets, and Scouts; it does feel like they are moving back to older unit layouts.
Plus Valrak has continued to say with confidence that 11th edition Marines are getting Vanguard Vets and a nu-Tactical Squad. It's not impossible to imagine the Tactics armored units getting consolidated into Tacticals, Gravis into nu-Devastators, and Phobos just being kept as is.
That alone would prune down the range massively, still keep most current models usable, and the upgrade sprues wouldn't even need to change.
This is what I'd expect, but it'll still all be primaris.
MajorWesJanson wrote: Blood Angels and Dark Angels both have full upgrade sets that ultramarines arte joining. Space Wolves just get a bunch of full kits instead.
oof. I actually have that kit. Such a shame, BA never got those chunky vehicle symbols in theirs. Cant help but to feel envious of UM players right about now..
Feels a bit weird for Ultramarines to get stuff during the end of edition time. Might it be an indication that a different chapter takes the spotlight in next edition's launch box?
Nice that GW keeps doing those upgrade sprues. They should keep at it and make them for both less advertised chapters and non-Imperials. Spread out the love a little.
Geifer wrote: Feels a bit weird for Ultramarines to get stuff during the end of edition time. Might it be an indication that a different chapter takes the spotlight in next edition's launch box?
Nice that GW keeps doing those upgrade sprues. They should keep at it and make them for both less advertised chapters and non-Imperials. Spread out the love a little.
They did a pretty good job with the upgrade sprues in the past for the other 1st founding chapters (and BT) not just the big 4. There is obviously still some favoritism, but it’s not just a footnote and maybe a named character anymore.
It would be nice to see the pattern continue.
Some of the chapter specific/themed CPs do come with upgrade frames.
Geifer wrote: Feels a bit weird for Ultramarines to get stuff during the end of edition time. Might it be an indication that a different chapter takes the spotlight in next edition's launch box?
Nice that GW keeps doing those upgrade sprues. They should keep at it and make them for both less advertised chapters and non-Imperials. Spread out the love a little.
I did see a rumour the other day that the 11th ed box was going to be painted as Blood Angels FWIW.
Of course, we've heard that before and it's turned out not to be true.
Probably the Blood Angels rumour is more likely to be a new edition of Space Hulk.
Given the 40th anniversary of the game in 2027, and the rumours of Orks...I'll wager that Ultramarines are getting the love now as 11th edition will be Crimson Fists. It'll soon be time to return to the farm...40K's "Sky Fall".
Geifer wrote: Feels a bit weird for Ultramarines to get stuff during the end of edition time. Might it be an indication that a different chapter takes the spotlight in next edition's launch box?
Nice that GW keeps doing those upgrade sprues. They should keep at it and make them for both less advertised chapters and non-Imperials. Spread out the love a little.
I did see a rumour the other day that the 11th ed box was going to be painted as Blood Angels FWIW.
Of course, we've heard that before and it's turned out not to be true.
Would be nice to see Blood Angels on a starter box cover again. But yeah, I guess we'll see if GW is willing to ease up a little on ramming Ultramarines down our throats every chance they get.
Pariah Press wrote: It would be awesome if the 11th edition boxed set was called Battle at the Farm, but I won’t hold my breath.
They should just do exactly this. It's all been leading to this moment - like when the Emperor in Star Wars ordered the closure of Bea Arthur's cantina. It's central to the whole conflict of 40K - to everything.
Dawn of War 4 releases next year too. Maybe GW finally got the hang of multimedia tie-in releases, and the rumoured Blood Angel edition release box is actually Blood Ravens?
(No, I'm not holding my breath either. Would be cool though).
Valrak also said today on his live stream that he has heard the 11th ed box will be painted as Blood Angels too (which was not the source I heard it from when I posted a few days ago).
I'm content with the card game, but I really like the idea of leveraging the BSF tile-boards to make a lite-version of Space Hulk using a box of Chaos Terminators...and all those genestealer sprues sitting on the pile-o-shame...
Mr_Rose wrote: Hmm. What if the next 40K Quest game was also the next Space Hulk?
Terminators with a Quest profile vs. NPC genestealers. It could work.
It could, but why? Would it be a better Space Hulk? I think that's the real reason why we didn't see Kill Team do it either - you could put Terminators and Genestealers against each other in that game, but would engage or conceal orders be better than the blip system of Space Hulk?
If not, why make it Space Hulk? Part of the attraction of the Quest series has been when it's able to delve into odder corners of the 41st Millenium (or the Mortal Realms).
To be fair with what's currently on shelf for terminators and genestealers we are covered with so many options already. We are missing blood angels terminators and thats about it? So we have multi options sprues on current Genestealers then Necromunda Genestealers and 2 brood lord kits then we have 2 multi kits of vanilla terminators and space wolves and Dark angels themed Terminators, chaplain, psyker etc in individual kits. That is a lot.
If you get tiles/tokens and rules you can pretty much do a spacehulk.
For me I'd love to see a Spacehulk for the same reason Blackstone and Cursed City - the chance of some unique models and things that just don't get into general wargame releases.
Esp with Blackstone - heck some of those models could even come around again in a Space Hulk setting.
Esp once you expand beyond the genestealers and Terminators; a lot of other models that could appear in the game are way bigger now. Carnifex and Zoanthropes are both way bigger than they were back in the day; but with super crouched poses; with unique tunnel evolved versions and such you could easily have a bunch of unique monsters and things running around in a hulk. Not to mention a Chaos Cult; some Intrepid (and terrified) Tau etc...
Speaking of something unique, just crossed my mind years ago some fellas did a magnetised pocket version of space hulk, the scale of the minis was small like 10 or 15mm. Now if GW did some small scale pocket versions of space hulk I would be positively surprised.
NAVARRO wrote: To be fair with what's currently on shelf for terminators and genestealers we are covered with so many options already. We are missing blood angels terminators and thats about it? So we have multi options sprues on current Genestealers then Necromunda Genestealers and 2 brood lord kits then we have 2 multi kits of vanilla terminators and space wolves and Dark angels themed Terminators, chaplain, psyker etc in individual kits. That is a lot.
If you get tiles/tokens and rules you can pretty much do a spacehulk.
The current Genestealer range doesn't have the Space Hulk/Genestealer cult ribbed backs, apart from the store anniversary model (and the two on the Overkill sprues). There would certainly be interest from Genestealer Cult players about a purestrain range orientated slightly more towards us and less towards Tyranid armies I think.
Oh yeah. Revamping the scale would indeed make Space hulk work better in modern contexts. The amount of table space you needed for those larger campaign boards (like the ones in WD) was ridiculous by modern standards. Rescaling it all down would tackle that issue pretty well.
I've been thinking to magnetize my termie / stealer model bases, so that I could also fit em on correctly sized square bases (30mm Old World Square bases probably) for some Space Hulk games. The squares are a bit small for the modern miniature scale however..
Square bases make the most sense for me for Space Hulk, because the game relies on 90 degree facings, and having a square base makes the facing absolutely unambiguous.
Mr_Rose wrote: Hmm. What if the next 40K Quest game was also the next Space Hulk?
Terminators with a Quest profile vs. NPC genestealers. It could work.
Instead of Terminators is could be a set of marines of various armor. Say 3 intercessors, a phobos guy, one Gravis, a Terminator, a couple of Jump packs, a biker and Librarian. Could have Cassius lead them against the genestealers even.
Mr_Rose wrote: Hmm. What if the next 40K Quest game was also the next Space Hulk?
Terminators with a Quest profile vs. NPC genestealers. It could work.
Instead of Terminators is could be a set of marines of various armor. Say 3 intercessors, a phobos guy, one Gravis, a Terminator, a couple of Jump packs, a biker and Librarian. Could have Cassius lead them against the genestealers even.
Kinda like the Space Marine Adventure Game: Tyranid Attack!
tauist wrote: Oh yeah. Revamping the scale would indeed make Space hulk work better in modern contexts. The amount of table space you needed for those larger campaign boards (like the ones in WD) was ridiculous by modern standards.
Do you mean those from 1st edition? Playing the campaign in one game was some kind of Space Hulk Apocalypse option and required several boxes and players.
Space Hulk should stay what it always was: a game with simple rules dependent on the board, reinforcements, mission goals and the strong contrast of the opponents. It's not suited for heavy changes - nearly all additions and options were useless and imbalanced.
The old Compendium allowed you to field Power Armour Marines.
Individually not as potent as a Terminator, natch. But in exchange you got a notably more numerous force, which was more manouverable. It made for an interesting new challenge for the Marine player, as you had to use quite different tactics.
The old Compendium allowed you to field Power Armour Marines.
Individually not as potent as a Terminator, natch. But in exchange you got a notably more numerous force, which was more manouverable. It made for an interesting new challenge for the Marine player, as you had to use quite different tactics.
I actually played with those rules. They weren't good. Space Hulk isn't Space Crusade, Advanced Space Crusade or Tyranid Attack where you could add this and that including totally new forces. It's a competitive game that doesn't allow much changes and not a playground for diversity.
tauist wrote: Oh yeah. Revamping the scale would indeed make Space hulk work better in modern contexts. The amount of table space you needed for those larger campaign boards (like the ones in WD) was ridiculous by modern standards. Rescaling it all down would tackle that issue pretty well.
That takes a lot of value out of the game though:
If Space Hulk is released in 40k scale, you can use the entire infantry range of the GSC, the Tyranids and all of the Space Marines in custom missions on day ONE! On top of that, feel free to use the models that come with Space Hulk in 40k, Kill Team or even Necromunda. Why would I not buy that? It sells itself.
At 15mm? Take these twenty models, fight them against these ten models in this game and ONLY this game, shut up and like it, Maybe if you're lucky we'll release four expansion sets over three years before scrapping the game and leaving you with models you can use in absolutely nothing. How much disposable income would I have to have to remotely consider this good value?
Now, if you release them in LI scale, it would be worth it just to move LI out of the Heresy Era, which in my opinion was one of the worst decisions GW ever made. Using the minis in microhulk would just be a bonus.
Getting back on topic, even though I really do enjoy the topic of cool board games and this has been a blast, the main take away is that Blood Angels should benefit from a new edition of Space Hulk, while Genestealer Cults will get their more classic-looking Genies.
Unless they go with game-specific models again...which would still be bloody cool.
Jack Flask wrote: Flash Gitz should beat GW to it and do a Kickstarter for Psycho Crusade
Next week sees a bunch of Combat Patrols on preorder.
Caanok Var looks like something I'd want. I was just lamenting the lack of more exotic looking patterns of Indomi battleplates in the modern range, this guy will fill the gap nicely. I'll grab his torso and legs when bitz sellers get these in.
The Iron Hands are supposed to be some of the most technically-minded and technologically adept marines, but their special captain dude's special weapon is "bigger stick" - does anyone else feel this is odd?
Mr_Rose wrote: The Iron Hands are supposed to be some of the most technically-minded and technologically adept marines, but their special captain dude's special weapon is "bigger stick" - does anyone else feel this is odd?
Well, it's a power-kanabō. An especially brutal weapon destroying armour and breaking bones. It's not that unfitting for a chapter who despise weakness and the lifes of opponents.
Mr_Rose wrote: The Iron Hands are supposed to be some of the most technically-minded and technologically adept marines, but their special captain dude's special weapon is "bigger stick" - does anyone else feel this is odd?
Well, it's a power-kanabō. An especially brutal weapon destroying armour and breaking bones. It's not that unfitting for a chapter who despise weakness and the lifes of opponents.
More typically the weapons given to important characters are supposed to telegraph something about their personality or history. Hopefully there's something in the particular background for this character that tells us why he uses that weapon. I admit I don't know an awful lot about the iron hands but what I do know doesn't make this weapon an obvious choice for an exemplar of the chapter.
The only time I've seen a similarly styled weapon on a space marine was when the Cult of Paint YouTube channel did a painting guide for a Heresy White Scar, using a conversation of one of the praetor miniatures that was new in the last edition boxed set.
Given the influences for the White Scars it seemed a much more natural fit there than it does for the new Iron Hands miniature.
Mr_Rose wrote: The Iron Hands are supposed to be some of the most technically-minded and technologically adept marines, but their special captain dude's special weapon is "bigger stick" - does anyone else feel this is odd?
Ferrus Manus used a big hammer. I’m not seeing how big stick is off brand.
Mr_Rose wrote: The Iron Hands are supposed to be some of the most technically-minded and technologically adept marines, but their special captain dude's special weapon is "bigger stick" - does anyone else feel this is odd?
Ferrus Manus used a big hammer. I’m not seeing how big stick is off brand.
Hammers are at least thematicically connected with forging and metalwork…
Mr_Rose wrote: The Iron Hands are supposed to be some of the most technically-minded and technologically adept marines, but their special captain dude's special weapon is "bigger stick" - does anyone else feel this is odd?
Ferrus Manus used a big hammer. I’m not seeing how big stick is off brand.
Hammers are at least thematicically connected with forging and metalwork…
I'm going to have to agree a bit with the power-kenabo not totally fitting. If this had been in the hands of a White Scars captain I'd have enthusiastically given my nod of approval with it's link to ancient eastern armies.
The Iron Hands are also some of the most brutal, bloody-minded and cold-hearted Astartes. Only the soul cradles vengeance purely, or something like that. The kanabo is perfectly on brand for me.
I like the IH Captain in Terminator armour. He would make a great Iron Priest in Terminator armour for my Logan Wing Great Company, which I plan to start in the future, but will never get around to starting.
Mr_Rose wrote: The Iron Hands are supposed to be some of the most technically-minded and technologically adept marines, but their special captain dude's special weapon is "bigger stick" - does anyone else feel this is odd?
Well, it is a fancy big stick and being the experienced engineers that the Iron Hands are, I'm sure they adhere to the K.I.S.S principle. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. What do you think would be the more appropriate weapon for him?
I actually prefer these boxes with alternative options, much like Necromunda does.
I can customise the way I want on top of more generic regiment boxes.
While I prefer helmets, sometimes you need to go bare headed to help pick out models. Even with my extensive bits box from over the years, getting one to match the vibe of the model can be rough. More options is always good.
And as an Ultramarine, I can never have enough crested helmets.
Would have been a lot more useful with more "Mk VI & Mk VII" helmets, at least ten each would have been great. 34 unhelmeted out of 51 total? Who needs that many? And yes, we already have lots of heads from other kits. Why not take the opportunity to fill this kit with options we don't already have?
Would have been a lot more useful with more "Mk VI & Mk VII" helmets, at least ten each would have been great. 34 unhelmeted out of 51 total? Who needs that many? And yes, we already have lots of heads from other kits. Why not take the opportunity to fill this kit with options we don't already have?
Also:
Is this a female head? If it is, is that a first?
There are a couple that look a little more "feminine." Maybe the sculptor was trying for a more youthful look...?
It is nice that bare heads are more then just square jawed angry white guy, probably screaming, mostly bald.
When you do have things like narrower faces or heightened cheekbones you do get some that have more classically feminine traits. But as mentioned, also younger.
Are these the Christmas Boxed sets or might there be another round for Christmas?
A friend is mulling getting back into 40k and I'd like to grab him the bones of an Eldar army and I was hoping there might be a good bundle deal upcoming.
Interesting boxes - some are quite generic and would easily work in multiples; whilst others are very clearly intended to be one-per-customer as they include named character models.
Nice place to start a new army from or expand a recently started one!
My local shop usually has a few of these sitting around for a while after each release. Some go faster than others, but I think I could just wander down there and pick one up on release week.
The Tau box looks cool, but I wonder what the price on these will be. Crisis Suits are ridiculous to buy outside of discount sets but they might be eating up a lot of the discount here.
Funny enough I've been trying to sell nearly the exact contents of the Sylvaneth box for a while now. Tempted by the Troggs even though I don't really like or play AoS. I've just got a Gitz army I break out when people want me to play they'd provide me a good alternative for.
I need at least one more dread for my company, 2 would be better. So those guys are good. I’m not opposed to the head sprue, as I was thinking of getting that anyway.
Command squad would be cool, but Ultras are getting Victix guard. More sternguard are not a bad thing, but I’ve got 20 old and 10 new already.
I already have too many hellblasters.
Unless the price point is real good. Which I doubt.
The CSM one would be weirdly perfect for me. I've also got shadowspear and vengeance warband, and if you put it all together it's a pretty fun list that fits neatly in 2k.
Shame the greater possessed got squatted IMMEDIATELY though.
cole1114 wrote: Pointswise some of these 40k forces are dogwater.
Emperor's Children 705
Votann 535
Tyranids 750
Tau 495(!)
Space Marines 740
Chaos Space Marines 810
Krieg 460(!!!)
You say that's a negative on Krieg but I see that as a "ok so two would be great" bonus on them. It just means they are a swarmy army as opposed to say the Tyranids which is basically all big huge mega monsters.
cole1114 wrote: Pointswise some of these 40k forces are dogwater.
Emperor's Children 705
Votann 535
Tyranids 750
Tau 495(!)
Space Marines 740
Chaos Space Marines 810
Krieg 460(!!!)
You say that's a negative on Krieg but I see that as a "ok so two would be great" bonus on them. It just means they are a swarmy army as opposed to say the Tyranids which is basically all big huge mega monsters.
The problem is more price to points than anything. Five hundredish bucks for less than a thousand points if you buy two?
Competitively it's very strong, the winner of LVO used 185 infantry including 60 krieg, 20 cavalry and a single scout walker.
cole1114 wrote: Pointswise some of these 40k forces are dogwater.
Emperor's Children 705
Votann 535
Tyranids 750
Tau 495(!)
Space Marines 740
Chaos Space Marines 810
Krieg 460(!!!)
You say that's a negative on Krieg but I see that as a "ok so two would be great" bonus on them. It just means they are a swarmy army as opposed to say the Tyranids which is basically all big huge mega monsters.
The problem is more price to points than anything. Five hundredish bucks for less than a thousand points if you buy two?
Thing is that's always been the way with swarm armies. Same for Tyranids running loads of gaunts.
Even AoS had the same issue in the 2.0 edition; since then they've pulled army numbers back a lot which I suspect is in part due to burnout on new customers so they are growing.
Old World is better right now, but in part that might just be the powre of nostalgia and the fact some of the kits are super super old
cole1114 wrote: Pointswise some of these 40k forces are dogwater.
Emperor's Children 705
Votann 535
Tyranids 750
Tau 495(!)
Space Marines 740
Chaos Space Marines 810
Krieg 460(!!!)
You say that's a negative on Krieg but I see that as a "ok so two would be great" bonus on them. It just means they are a swarmy army as opposed to say the Tyranids which is basically all big huge mega monsters.
The problem is more price to points than anything. Five hundredish bucks for less than a thousand points if you buy two?
Competitively it's very strong, the winner of LVO used 185 infantry including 60 krieg, 20 cavalry and a single scout walker.
I bang this drum regularly. Points need to go up across the board. I don't care if it's a general raise, or they buff them in tandem, but point cuts aren’t sustainable and are going down a progressively darker path. The worst part is based on some community engagement the majority of the vocal online crowd like having more stuff on the table, they just seem to think it should cost less to get there which is baffling.
I bang this drum regularly. Points need to go up across the board. I don't care if it's a general raise, or they buff them in tandem, but point cuts aren’t sustainable and are going down a progressively darker path. The worst part is based on some community engagement the majority of the vocal online crowd like having more stuff on the table, they just seem to think it should cost less to get there which is baffling.
Go back 10+ years and I'd probably agree with you; however today we've got Killteam and Combat Patrol which both run on much smaller model counts. Let the points and army size be as they are; most 40K armies are pretty diverse today and I'd rather have 2K armies that are able to field a large variety of models rather than smaller army sizes and having a lot more models just left sitting on the shelf.
As for "cost less to get there" that's just your standard "everything is expensive I want it cheaper" which often rings hollow online cause most of those crying that battlecry also tend to have a huge unbuilt "pile of shame/potential".
In the end we'd all love things to cost less
The Votann one would be perfect for me as it's all the stuff I don't have (barring Thunderkyn, but can always use more). Sadly I doubt I'll have the budget to cover it when they release. Maybe if these are Christmas boxes they'll have a bit more stock?
I bang this drum regularly. Points need to go up across the board. I don't care if it's a general raise, or they buff them in tandem, but point cuts aren’t sustainable and are going down a progressively darker path. The worst part is based on some community engagement the majority of the vocal online crowd like having more stuff on the table, they just seem to think it should cost less to get there which is baffling.
Go back 10+ years and I'd probably agree with you; however today we've got Killteam and Combat Patrol which both run on much smaller model counts. Let the points and army size be as they are; most 40K armies are pretty diverse today and I'd rather have 2K armies that are able to field a large variety of models rather than smaller army sizes and having a lot more models just left sitting on the shelf.
As for "cost less to get there" that's just your standard "everything is expensive I want it cheaper" which often rings hollow online cause most of those crying that battlecry also tend to have a huge unbuilt "pile of shame/potential".
In the end we'd all love things to cost less
Combat patrol isn't really fit for purpose imo and kill team is a totally different game system. I wouldn't accept someone telling me to play Underworld to play AoS for example, nor should go play kill team be an acceptable response to 40k going through heavy shrinkflation.
I bang this drum regularly. Points need to go up across the board. I don't care if it's a general raise, or they buff them in tandem, but point cuts aren’t sustainable and are going down a progressively darker path. The worst part is based on some community engagement the majority of the vocal online crowd like having more stuff on the table, they just seem to think it should cost less to get there which is baffling.
Go back 10+ years and I'd probably agree with you; however today we've got Killteam and Combat Patrol which both run on much smaller model counts. Let the points and army size be as they are; most 40K armies are pretty diverse today and I'd rather have 2K armies that are able to field a large variety of models rather than smaller army sizes and having a lot more models just left sitting on the shelf.
As for "cost less to get there" that's just your standard "everything is expensive I want it cheaper" which often rings hollow online cause most of those crying that battlecry also tend to have a huge unbuilt "pile of shame/potential".
In the end we'd all love things to cost less
Combat patrol isn't really fit for purpose imo and kill team is a totally different game system. I wouldn't accept someone telling me to play Underworld to play AoS for example, nor should go play kill team be an acceptable response to 40k going through heavy shrinkflation.
I think we can simultaneously agree that GW products are annoyingly expensive, and that they're doing a decent job of providing smaller-scale games to at least get your foot into the hobby.
Definitely agree that Kill Team/Underworlds/War Cry aren't the same as their full-fledged counterparts. Though, honestly, I feel like some of them are better designed than the big ones.
I bang this drum regularly. Points need to go up across the board. I don't care if it's a general raise, or they buff them in tandem, but point cuts aren’t sustainable and are going down a progressively darker path. The worst part is based on some community engagement the majority of the vocal online crowd like having more stuff on the table, they just seem to think it should cost less to get there which is baffling.
Go back 10+ years and I'd probably agree with you; however today we've got Killteam and Combat Patrol which both run on much smaller model counts. Let the points and army size be as they are; most 40K armies are pretty diverse today and I'd rather have 2K armies that are able to field a large variety of models rather than smaller army sizes and having a lot more models just left sitting on the shelf.
As for "cost less to get there" that's just your standard "everything is expensive I want it cheaper" which often rings hollow online cause most of those crying that battlecry also tend to have a huge unbuilt "pile of shame/potential".
In the end we'd all love things to cost less
Combat patrol isn't really fit for purpose imo and kill team is a totally different game system. I wouldn't accept someone telling me to play Underworld to play AoS for example, nor should go play kill team be an acceptable response to 40k going through heavy shrinkflation.
They aren't the same and that's kind of the point - if you want smaller games there's specific game formats for smaller matches.
This means the core game can get away being bigger armies because anyone new or with less funds/time/whatever can play in the smaller game formats which are decently supported in most places.
Combat patrol isn't really fit for purpose imo and kill team is a totally different game system. I wouldn't accept someone telling me to play Underworld to play AoS for example, nor should go play kill team be an acceptable response to 40k going through heavy shrinkflation.
They aren't the same and that's kind of the point - if you want smaller games there's specific game formats for smaller matches.
This means the core game can get away being bigger armies because anyone new or with less funds/time/whatever can play in the smaller game formats which are decently supported in most places.
If you want to use specific, fixed combat patrols, sure.
The DKoK force looks actually pretty good. Could be used as Militia in HH as well (shave up the aquila if you're that puritan). I'd guess it's the first box that will be bought out - it has none of the disadvantages the others may have.
Two of my FLGSs still have some of the AoS Christmas boxes from previous years on their shelves. I was able to score the Kruleboyz one to start that army over a year after that box dropped, and they've still got the Ironjawz one (was that from last year or the year before?).
As for this year's boxes, I'm definitely interested in the Votann one, as I want more Thunderkyn and Beserks, another Kapricus would be nice, and I wouldn't mind a set of the artillery pieces. The Ironmaster I could live without since I already have one, but maybe I'll find a use for two in a list? The Marine box is nice but I already have three of each of the dreads, lots of Hellblasters, and some Company Champions. I wouldn't mind more Sternguard, but I'm not buying a box full of stuff I don't want for them. The only other box I might potentially want is the Krieg one, but I'm not worried about having it. Maybe if I can't get the Votann one for whatever reason.
I may go for the Krieg one. 2 more artillery pieces, a second full unit of troops, and engineers to bring my squad up to 10 would basically finish off what I want as a kreig detachment.
Overread wrote:
They aren't the same and that's kind of the point - if you want smaller games there's specific game formats for smaller matches.
This means the core game can get away being bigger armies because anyone new or with less funds/time/whatever can play in the smaller game formats which are decently supported in most places.
This is still skirting round the problem that they've shrunken the table, pushed 2k almost exclusively as the default and drop points on everything like it's the best thing since sliced bread. Armies could stand to be a little smaller, I don't care that there are smaller sub-games, its a mutually exclusive statement.
LunarSol wrote:And I will repeat, if you want smaller but still core 40k, play the Incursion game mode.
Agree it's a nice game size, suits the smaller tables better as well. However it's still the ginger haired step child of the game. It needs to see more events and coverage to be more widely accepted. Most people would pass it over or simply stop visiting incursion once they get to 2k.
Overread wrote:And at under 500 points total you could easily get two and field every model.
Overread wrote:
They aren't the same and that's kind of the point - if you want smaller games there's specific game formats for smaller matches.
This means the core game can get away being bigger armies because anyone new or with less funds/time/whatever can play in the smaller game formats which are decently supported in most places.
This is still skirting round the problem that they've shrunken the table, pushed 2k almost exclusively as the default and drop points on everything like it's the best thing since sliced bread. Armies could stand to be a little smaller, I don't care that there are smaller sub-games, its a mutually exclusive statement.
LunarSol wrote:And I will repeat, if you want smaller but still core 40k, play the Incursion game mode.
Agree it's a nice game size, suits the smaller tables better as well. However it's still the ginger haired step child of the game. It needs to see more events and coverage to be more widely accepted. Most people would pass it over or simply stop visiting incursion once they get to 2k.
Overread wrote:And at under 500 points total you could easily get two and field every model.
Which exactly highlights the problem.
The latest mission cards have special missions and maps specifically for incursion, they are pushing it and making it a unique offering, and it’s bloody good fun too.
Overread wrote:
They aren't the same and that's kind of the point - if you want smaller games there's specific game formats for smaller matches.
This means the core game can get away being bigger armies because anyone new or with less funds/time/whatever can play in the smaller game formats which are decently supported in most places.
This is still skirting round the problem that they've shrunken the table, pushed 2k almost exclusively as the default and drop points on everything like it's the best thing since sliced bread. Armies could stand to be a little smaller, I don't care that there are smaller sub-games, its a mutually exclusive statement.
LunarSol wrote:And I will repeat, if you want smaller but still core 40k, play the Incursion game mode.
Agree it's a nice game size, suits the smaller tables better as well. However it's still the ginger haired step child of the game. It needs to see more events and coverage to be more widely accepted. Most people would pass it over or simply stop visiting incursion once they get to 2k.
Overread wrote:And at under 500 points total you could easily get two and field every model.
Which exactly highlights the problem.
The latest mission cards have special missions and maps specifically for incursion, they are pushing it and making it a unique offering, and it’s bloody good fun too.
I agree and play them myself, but I know its uncommon and a lot of people out there don't want to. They want the massive armies rammed into a tiny space whilst complaining how few points are in big boxes.
I'll drop it anyway, it's not a rumour and it's certainly not news.
That Krieg box would have been perfect for me.. if I hadnt already bought most of it via individual kits. Would have saved me quite a bit of money to buy this instead. Oh well..
If I was just starting out with DKoK, I'd buy two of these and a HH Malcador (to use as a counts-as-bottomless tank of M41)
I do agree its a problem that GW "shrunk the board size" since it was basically done purely to fit the half sized boards they fit into their larger boxed sets. That said if you feel the board is too small just play bigger. 40K (heck all GW games) are not balanced anywhere near a level of granular balance that changing table size would break them (unless you go to extremes). The board size is (and always has been) purely a suggestion by GW. Granted more competitive groups will flock to the official numbers, but many people just get one of those big roll mat table covers with a landscape on them and use that as their default size.
Overread wrote:And at under 500 points total you could easily get two and field every model.
Which exactly highlights the problem.
It's not a problem its a point of view. You want to have fewer models that cost more to deploy for a "standard 2K game". Meanwhile I (and others) are more than happy to be able to have the choice of an army that can field large infantry blocks; multiple artillery and tank units on the table at once for a standard 2K game.
There's honestly no "right" answer here - that's why having different formats of game size helps. You want a smaller game play Incursion/Spearhead etc... You want a larger game heck I'm surprised GW hasn't re-released an updated Apoc book.
Tbh I think mainline 40k being a more detailed but smaller model count game, and "multiple tanks and artillery" style games being more an Apocalypse thing, was a much better state of affairs for a number of reasons. There's no EMPIRICAL right or wrong but there's certainly effects (overly long games and very high time and cash barriers to new armies being the key ones)
Billicus wrote: Tbh I think mainline 40k being a more detailed but smaller model count game, and "multiple tanks and artillery" style games being more an Apocalypse thing, was a much better state of affairs for a number of reasons. There's no EMPIRICAL right or wrong but there's certainly effects (overly long games and very high time and cash barriers to new armies being the key ones)
This. It's not a right or wrong but as noted:
- entry level mode of combat patrol is pants to be honest
- incursion isn't widely humoured by the wider community
- if there isn't a consensus on table size or points it defaults back to match play standard
- most outward media encourages comp play 2k only
- armies are forever getting more expensive for new comers
- the game is taking longer in my experience
- it promotes the lethality arms race
- points reduction as a primary balance tool simply results in "buy and field more"
I would define those as problems, the degree to which anyone is personally impacted will vary, but problems they are all the same.
At the same time warhammer has never been bigger than it has right now.
I'd also argue most armies are too diverse in models to cope with being downsized. You downsize them and that one-game-a-week (at best for most) or maybe one a month for many - means a LOT of a collection might sit on the shelf and not see game time.
This was a problem the old FOC system had for some armies. They had options but the slot limits stopped you fielding more of them.
It's not just a case of point cost, but army size and diversity. People want to put their toys on the table to play with and for many on limited games its better to have the option of a bigger match with more diversity than it is to have much smaller games.
Lethality arms-race isn't really a size of game problem its an inherent problem with how GW chooses to build and balance their games.
Also lets face it at some point this stops being an inherent problem with the game and becomes a local club and social problem that GW can't fix. GW can't make your local group play how you want; only the people there can do that .
Like I said before in the past game size was a problem; Old World 100% had it as one of the contributing problematic factors for newbies burning out. However there are multiple game formats now, esp for 40K that allow games at smaller sizes. Yes costs are up, they've always gone up every year; and every year we predict its the end of GW and -- honestly - GW has just kept growing.
Overread wrote: At the same time warhammer has never been bigger than it has right now.
I'd also argue most armies are too diverse in models to cope with being downsized. You downsize them and that one-game-a-week (at best for most) or maybe one a month for many - means a LOT of a collection might sit on the shelf and not see game time.
This was a problem the old FOC system had for some armies. They had options but the slot limits stopped you fielding more of them.
It's not just a case of point cost, but army size and diversity. People want to put their toys on the table to play with and for many on limited games its better to have the option of a bigger match with more diversity than it is to have much smaller games.
Lethality arms-race isn't really a size of game problem its an inherent problem with how GW chooses to build and balance their games.
Also lets face it at some point this stops being an inherent problem with the game and becomes a local club and social problem that GW can't fix. GW can't make your local group play how you want; only the people there can do that .
Like I said before in the past game size was a problem; Old World 100% had it as one of the contributing problematic factors for newbies burning out. However there are multiple game formats now, esp for 40K that allow games at smaller sizes. Yes costs are up, they've always gone up every year; and every year we predict its the end of GW and -- honestly - GW has just kept growing.
I mean to put boots on the other feet - if you want to use all of a large collection maybe that should be an above-average game size, which again they have officially supported in multiple ways at multiple times, but doesn't catch on. The options exist all the same as a smaller one, the only difference is one side of that discussion currently has a bit more of what they want than the other as the default.
I don't honestly think having a large collection with some of it sitting on a shelf is bad. I can only think of one person I know personally who used to only collect a "game sized" force and keep it exactly relevant to what they played. Having a depth of units and roster is good, it allows you to keep swapping things and trying stuff, the limitations create decision points and scarcity that is largely ignored if everyone just wants "more" all the time.
The bigger army sizes also exacerbate when some armies have smaller rosters than the others, as they are forced into spam just to fill points to a large degree.
I do agree on the arms race, but like I say, community largely and GW either seem to think it needs to kill more (added lethality) or be killed more (point drops to facilitate more lethality), it's a very two dimensional process and results into a race to the bottom for points. It's happened repeatedly already since 7th.
Regards local player groups, you are right but like I say when the community as a wider whole are happily presenting the "right way" to play as following the default, anything else will always be an uphill battle.
Edit: to that end I don't think I've ever seen sigmar players complain they want more stuff on the table, that their armies costing more is good, or that getting greater game value from the boxes is bad. None of those can be said in comparison with 40k.
Edit: to that end I don't think I've ever seen sigmar players complain they want more stuff on the table, that their armies costing more is good, or that getting greater game value from the boxes is bad. None of those can be said in comparison with 40k.
I mean I can start doing it now if you want?
Sigmar is in a different odd spot because it "should" have armies of comparable size to 40K; but the way Sigmar grew caused it to stall its growth for a number of years which is why between 2.0 and today GW has cut down army size to make it more accessible to totally new people. Meanwhile 40K has a much larger mature market who push for larger armies.
It's a balance - get it too far wrong and you shut down one group - either those with big collections feel left out or those getting started. Ths problem is a LOT less than it was in the Kirby days and before; because back then side-games in smaller formats weren't properly supported like they are now. Today you've got other game modes to help ease people in.
I've also got a feeling that some of the downsizing of AoS is GW trying to draw a line between the AoS and Old World experience of play; but I think this is a minor point compared to the simple fact that AoS just needs more growth time
Edit: to that end I don't think I've ever seen sigmar players complain they want more stuff on the table, that their armies costing more is good, or that getting greater game value from the boxes is bad. None of those can be said in comparison with 40k.
I mean I can start doing it now if you want?
Sigmar is in a different odd spot because it "should" have armies of comparable size to 40K; but the way Sigmar grew caused it to stall its growth for a number of years which is why between 2.0 and today GW has cut down army size to make it more accessible to totally new people. Meanwhile 40K has a much larger mature market who push for larger armies.
It's a balance - get it too far wrong and you shut down one group - either those with big collections feel left out or those getting started. Ths problem is a LOT less than it was in the Kirby days and before; because back then side-games in smaller formats weren't properly supported like they are now. Today you've got other game modes to help ease people in.
I've also got a feeling that some of the downsizing of AoS is GW trying to draw a line between the AoS and Old World experience of play; but I think this is a minor point compared to the simple fact that AoS just needs more growth time
So being super reductive, the only division point from your perspective is the relative inflexibility to milk AoS players due to a lack of critical mass/sunken cost fallacy, whereas 40k players will happily just take it due to inertia of the gaming community?
Eh, I feel like Age of Sigmar armies haven't been fleshed out enough to put a real demand on making them bigger. In a lot of ways I feel like they're already too big, with most army lists I see repeating the same unit 3-5 times as the bulk of the points.
LunarSol wrote: Eh, I feel like Age of Sigmar armies haven't been fleshed out enough to put a real demand on making them bigger. In a lot of ways I feel like they're already too big, with most army lists I see repeating the same unit 3-5 times as the bulk of the points.
It varies a lot - Skaven, Lizardmen, Stormcast - big armies with lots of options
Fyreslayers - utterly tiny and have to spam the same units over and over. Heck even Daughters of Khaine are a bit like that.
In some ways its a transitional element; armies which are smaller will be expected to gain more models and diversity and thus put more pressure on people wanting to take more.
Overread wrote: It varies a lot - Skaven, Lizardmen, Stormcast - big armies with lots of options
Two of those are holdovers from WHFB, and the other is the over-bloated poster-boy faction.
And yet I fully expect to see other armies gain similar diversity. You don't hear of Ossiarch players saying that they've got all they ever need. They still cry out for archers; for more monster-beast-constructs; for the centaur cavalry etc...
So yes those that I picked were hold-overs from the past and retained a lot of strengths for that in model diversity. That said considering 40K, 30K, and Old World ALL leaned into wider army diversity as a means of expansion then I fully expect AoS to follow the same pattern. Sure not every army will get addons all the time; but barring unique ones like Gargants, I fully expect to see rosters continue to expand considerably toward large diverse forces. It just takes time.
I'm pretty sure they vaulted more Stormcast warscrolls than exist in the battletome. I feel like AOS will not be hitting 40k levels of unit bloat (for most factions).
PoorGravitasHandling wrote: I'm pretty sure they vaulted more Stormcast warscrolls than exist in the battletome. I feel like AOS will not be hitting 40k levels of unit bloat (for most factions).
Not quite, but yes a lot of units got sunsetted, and I expect more to go away next edition. Kind of a shame but I do support reduced bloat in the game.
I am intrigued by that approach. Can the models be used for other new units, or is that it? One of the main drivers of what you are calling bloat is that people rather like to be able to use the stuff they have bought, and there is 30 years or so of model releases to cover.
Flinty wrote: I am intrigued by that approach. Can the models be used for other new units, or is that it? One of the main drivers of what you are calling bloat is that people rather like to be able to use the stuff they have bought, and there is 30 years or so of model releases to cover.
Yes and no in the case of stormcast. There are some very easy and obvious proxies for a lot of them but in essence they are simply gone. Their roster is still massive compared to most however.
It shocked an upset a lot of people, but likewise you avoid, as you say, the bloat of every model to have ever existed all being game worthy and people wanting to use all the stuff at once.
Plus frankly they ran out of design space imo and it was getting a bit repetitive for the faction.
If tow is anything to go by they definitely keep their moulds assuming they're still usable.
I remember their starter intro 40k stuff from 5 years? Ago or so which included 2nd ed plastic ork buggies.
The storm cast are spirits so they can look like anything. It would be easy for them to re release them in a Sigmar redoubled event or something, even if temporarily.
I am interested to see if they ever do a mto for old 40k plastics or re release some stuff under some kind of event or promotion. Like the maelstrom releases old tactical marines as junk pirate marines or something.
My Sacrosant army got full support and even a new edition box set only to be discontinued very few years later. The reason was army bloat... but the second after they were discontinued, Stormcast got a new edition box set with loads of new models.
In short Fantasy side of things is volatile and in no way the new army you just got, is guaranteed to be supported in 6 or so years. Actually not even any fantasy game.
Many factions got muddled between WFB, AoS and now the old world... Frankly its a mess and I dont want none of it.
Regards local player groups, you are right but like I say when the community as a wider whole are happily presenting the "right way" to play as following the default, anything else will always be an uphill battle.
I'm not saying you're wrong, and there's no way to actually know, but I think it's equally likely that even if Incursion was the "default" game mode according to what was in the rules, people would still end up going for 2000 points anyway.
There's a chance that the reason it's the most popular is because it's what most people want to play.
Regards local player groups, you are right but like I say when the community as a wider whole are happily presenting the "right way" to play as following the default, anything else will always be an uphill battle.
I'm not saying you're wrong, and there's no way to actually know, but I think it's equally likely that even if Incursion was the "default" game mode according to what was in the rules, people would still end up going for 2000 points anyway.
There's a chance that the reason it's the most popular is because it's what most people want to play.
Not really there's a loooooot of studies on the bandwagon effect and the impact of people following the popular opinion, which at this point is entrenched at 2k. If people wanted to bring all the stuff or huge games you'd see 3k a lot more than you do, they instead default to the... default, as that's the sort of herd mentality.
Without ripping the game apart and going again, people are locked in as a group consciousness to this 2k game size, despite the fact it's in reality an arbitrary limit. As long as they can continue to be provided with a means to keep it "same-ish" and work towards that confirmation bias and comfort zone, it won't change.
If GW upped all points by ~30%, essentially making a 1500 point list the normal for 2k, people would simply play 2k still and either enjoy it or bemoan it, but there wouldn't be a giant mass community move to 2500.
Regards local player groups, you are right but like I say when the community as a wider whole are happily presenting the "right way" to play as following the default, anything else will always be an uphill battle.
I'm not saying you're wrong, and there's no way to actually know, but I think it's equally likely that even if Incursion was the "default" game mode according to what was in the rules, people would still end up going for 2000 points anyway.
There's a chance that the reason it's the most popular is because it's what most people want to play.
Not really there's a loooooot of studies on the bandwagon effect and the impact of people following the popular opinion, which at this point is entrenched at 2k. If people wanted to bring all the stuff or huge games you'd see 3k a lot more than you do, they instead default to the... default, as that's the sort of herd mentality.
Without ripping the game apart and going again, people are locked in as a group consciousness to this 2k game size, despite the fact it's in reality an arbitrary limit. As long as they can continue to be provided with a means to keep it "same-ish" and work towards that confirmation bias and comfort zone, it won't change.
If GW upped all points by ~30%, essentially making a 1500 point list the normal for 2k, people would simply play 2k still and either enjoy it or bemoan it, but there wouldn't be a giant mass community move to 2500.
Not sure I even buy your premise because I'd say overall 10th edition armies aren't actually larger than they've been in 5th Edition.
With the drive towards making marines more elite than before, Orks being more expensive per model and all hordes having smaller squads, vehicles overall being more expensive than in 6th edition and not being able to buy cheap squads without special weapons, I wouldn't say the game actually is getting bigger and bigger. Yes, there are points cuts in the FaQs, but usually they hit only a couple of units, it's not as prevalent as it was in 9th or 8th edition.
In 5th to 7th you also had game sizes of 1750 or 1850, but I'm not even sure these actually had a lower model count than a 2000points game today.
Interesting change - seems to be mainly cosmetic, but should make finding things easier.
I laughed when reading the article. “We’re gathering everything into one easy packet! Except the points. And the Combat Patrols. And the Tournament stuff and core rules...” So what’s left?
All the random stuff like the grotmass detachments. Single datasheets for new minis. Legends/Imperial Armor stuff. FAQs/errata. OK, that’s actually quite a bit. For some factions it’s not huge, but others (Marines) it actually condenses quite a bit of stuff.
Regards local player groups, you are right but like I say when the community as a wider whole are happily presenting the "right way" to play as following the default, anything else will always be an uphill battle.
I'm not saying you're wrong, and there's no way to actually know, but I think it's equally likely that even if Incursion was the "default" game mode according to what was in the rules, people would still end up going for 2000 points anyway.
There's a chance that the reason it's the most popular is because it's what most people want to play.
Not really there's a loooooot of studies on the bandwagon effect and the impact of people following the popular opinion, which at this point is entrenched at 2k. If people wanted to bring all the stuff or huge games you'd see 3k a lot more than you do, they instead default to the... default, as that's the sort of herd mentality.
Without ripping the game apart and going again, people are locked in as a group consciousness to this 2k game size, despite the fact it's in reality an arbitrary limit. As long as they can continue to be provided with a means to keep it "same-ish" and work towards that confirmation bias and comfort zone, it won't change.
If GW upped all points by ~30%, essentially making a 1500 point list the normal for 2k, people would simply play 2k still and either enjoy it or bemoan it, but there wouldn't be a giant mass community move to 2500.
Not sure I even buy your premise because I'd say overall 10th edition armies aren't actually larger than they've been in 5th Edition.
With the drive towards making marines more elite than before, Orks being more expensive per model and all hordes having smaller squads, vehicles overall being more expensive than in 6th edition and not being able to buy cheap squads without special weapons, I wouldn't say the game actually is getting bigger and bigger. Yes, there are points cuts in the FaQs, but usually they hit only a couple of units, it's not as prevalent as it was in 9th or 8th edition.
In 5th to 7th you also had game sizes of 1750 or 1850, but I'm not even sure these actually had a lower model count than a 2000points game today.
It might be partly rose tinted glasses, I existed in a world of 1500 being the norm until 8th as that was the common breakpoint on a lot of things for 40k in 3rd/4th when we were all generally picking up the game in my neck of the woods. It was also reinforced by a lot of GW publications at the time.
Interesting change - seems to be mainly cosmetic, but should make finding things easier.
On the one hand, it's nice to see proper rules for Inquisitor Ostromandeus.
On the other, he doesn't have any points yet. Agents also seem to have lost Eisenhorn, Karamazov and all the special Kill-Teams.
Regards local player groups, you are right but like I say when the community as a wider whole are happily presenting the "right way" to play as following the default, anything else will always be an uphill battle.
I'm not saying you're wrong, and there's no way to actually know, but I think it's equally likely that even if Incursion was the "default" game mode according to what was in the rules, people would still end up going for 2000 points anyway.
There's a chance that the reason it's the most popular is because it's what most people want to play.
Not really there's a loooooot of studies on the bandwagon effect and the impact of people following the popular opinion, which at this point is entrenched at 2k. If people wanted to bring all the stuff or huge games you'd see 3k a lot more than you do, they instead default to the... default, as that's the sort of herd mentality.
Without ripping the game apart and going again, people are locked in as a group consciousness to this 2k game size, despite the fact it's in reality an arbitrary limit. As long as they can continue to be provided with a means to keep it "same-ish" and work towards that confirmation bias and comfort zone, it won't change.
If GW upped all points by ~30%, essentially making a 1500 point list the normal for 2k, people would simply play 2k still and either enjoy it or bemoan it, but there wouldn't be a giant mass community move to 2500.
If you subtly nudge like that sure. But then again I think if GW just doubled all the points, and said the new 2k (old 1k) is the standard way to play, but here's a 4k way to play, people would go to 4k.
But you're right that the question of if you took all that away and started from scratch, where would people end up purely on personal preference is a very different one (I suspect it'd be a mostly equal spread).
To me it really does seem like GW are doing everything they can short of the sort of the sort of "nudge" approach you mention. They have really pushed Combat Patrol and Spearhead as genuine, valid ways to play and put a lot of support behind them. They've also really pushed Kill Team and Warcry as their own systems, all against a general pushback from a community that often views all that product through the lens of being a "stepping stone" or gateway to 2k points games of the main systems.
5th edition also saw the game size creep up. From 2nd to 3rd the points roughly halved and the size of armies got a lot bigger, but the game was designed around the bigger game with a lot of the fiddly rules taken out.
4th stayed fairly consistent with 3rd but in 5th basic infantry got cheaper because they often got upgrades included or just flat out went down in cost, and transport vehicles also got cheaper generally across all factions. I believe that was also when they downgraded Necron warriors from being more elite than space marines into a sort of semi-horde. 5th also saw the introduction of superheavies and fliers which had previously been optional or part of apocalypse battles into the main game, which really altered the feel of the game in a negative way imo. The battlefields already felt too cramped for those massive miniatures back then.
Now the most common army in the game has had their base size increased by nearly 30%, all it's vehicles and walkers made much bigger and almost every other army has also had base size increases of a similar nature and scale creep in their miniatures. At the same time the battlefields used have shrunk. So the crowded feeling must be even more extreme than it was.
I'd argue there's a sort of "natural size" where a game of 40k takes about 2.5-3 hours, maybe up to 4 if you are new/hyper casual. (Either explaining a lot of rules as you go, or just chatting because its a Saturday afternoon and the game isn't "that" important.)
Much more than that and its impractical to play in an evening - much less and I feel armies are too small to show off collections.
The other issue with bigger points sizes is just transportation. Its hard to cart large armies to stores - or even to each other's houses. (Also one of the hidden negatives of horde armies.)
Admittedly, this has never really explained why people who don't much care about the models aspect, and would happily play with bits of sprue and pipe cleaners, haven't made a cleaner/quicker game at say 1000 points that you could finish in about 90 minutes. But various 40k competitors have tried this over the years and its fallen by the wayside.
I think you do have a clear bandwagon effect though. There's no obvious reason why for instance the US tournament scene back in the day settled on 1850 points - whereas the UK/EU tended to bounce around between 1500/1750/2000. You'd have people argue that 1750 points was somehow far too small versus the sacred 1850. But equally claim a 2k points game would take far too long to play vs 1850. All of which is a bit bizarre - when you are typically talking about taking one more or one less unit.
Admittedly, this has never really explained why people who don't much care about the models aspect, and would happily play with bits of sprue and pipe cleaners, haven't made a cleaner/quicker game at say 1000 points that you could finish in about 90 minutes. But various 40k competitors have tried this over the years and its fallen by the wayside.
Those people became board gamers. There's literally hundreds of games like that and while no single game can beat 40K, that's because people play all sorts of different ones. There's far better and more varied *gaming* experiences out there now.
Interesting change - seems to be mainly cosmetic, but should make finding things easier.
I laughed when reading the article. “We’re gathering everything into one easy packet! Except the points. And the Combat Patrols. And the Tournament stuff and core rules...” So what’s left?
All the random stuff like the grotmass detachments. Single datasheets for new minis. Legends/Imperial Armor stuff. FAQs/errata. OK, that’s actually quite a bit. For some factions it’s not huge, but others (Marines) it actually condenses quite a bit of stuff.
So many they actually completely missed Vulkan He'stan's new datasheet
Lord Damocles wrote: Condensing rules into one document (which they're only sort of doing anyway) would make sense.
...but I feel the tingle of a loss of Legends units occurring in the process...
There's definitely some missing, but it seems likely an oversight. The Legends points actually got merged into the MFM and most of the missing datasheets are still there so I'm guessing there's just Legends stuff that got missed in the first pass.
Admittedly, this has never really explained why people who don't much care about the models aspect, and would happily play with bits of sprue and pipe cleaners, haven't made a cleaner/quicker game at say 1000 points that you could finish in about 90 minutes. But various 40k competitors have tried this over the years and its fallen by the wayside.
Those people became board gamers. There's literally hundreds of games like that and while no single game can beat 40K, that's because people play all sorts of different ones. There's far better and more varied *gaming* experiences out there now.
Admittedly, this has never really explained why people who don't much care about the models aspect, and would happily play with bits of sprue and pipe cleaners, haven't made a cleaner/quicker game at say 1000 points that you could finish in about 90 minutes. But various 40k competitors have tried this over the years and its fallen by the wayside.
Those people became board gamers. There's literally hundreds of games like that and while no single game can beat 40K, that's because people play all sorts of different ones. There's far better and more varied *gaming* experiences out there now.
There always has been.
Before the internet, it was more difficult to know this, especially in the UK. You'd have a local GW store, and any board games on other shelves would be things like Buckaroo or Kerplunk. We don't have the boardgame culture of mainland Europe.
Admittedly, this has never really explained why people who don't much care about the models aspect, and would happily play with bits of sprue and pipe cleaners, haven't made a cleaner/quicker game at say 1000 points that you could finish in about 90 minutes. But various 40k competitors have tried this over the years and its fallen by the wayside.
Those people became board gamers. There's literally hundreds of games like that and while no single game can beat 40K, that's because people play all sorts of different ones. There's far better and more varied *gaming* experiences out there now.
There always has been.
I mean you are not wrong but I would say the gap has widened (game design in board games got better faster than GW rules did) and the market is now about ten times larger than it was 15 years ago. Which also means much more variety and choice.
Pseudo jump packs for lych guard. Thats cool. I just wish the 'phase shroud' would be in green translucent plastic, like the old gun rods. Perhaps and outdated gimmick, but would make the model really stick out on the table and signal that here's something you dont see everyday.
The weekly pre-order arcticle doesn't say it, but the Jump Captain with Thunderhammer has been delayed in AUS & NZ and won't go up for pre-order until Oct 25th
New Valrak rumour video is that a plastic Warhound Titan is coming in the next year-ish.
He also says that GW are making a Warmaster Titan model in 30k/40k scale, but I'd be surprised if that was plastic (he doesn't say materials) before they did a Warlord or Plastic Thunderhawk.
There will be further upgrade sprues like the Kill Team Night Lords one and the Iron Warriors are next.
Yarrick is coming back and will get a new model. No new Steel Legion any time soon.
I can kind of see a Warhound in plastic - but its still insanely huge and a massive feat for plastic alone.
Warmaster in resin possible; though GW has gutted a LOT of that line of models from FW so its a bit of a surprise to see them going back to doing a mega-sized model for non-standard GW lines. Though I could see someone from GW saying "we'd do a Warmaster before a plastic warlord/thunderhawk" to mean "yeah we're not actually going to do any of those things, but if we did that's the order we'd do them in most likely"
Gamers want new original characters
Games also want new versions of original classic and favoured characters
Also didn't IG get a whole load of new characters - new leader of the Cadians; a new novel headed leader and retinue (though I think that was a one time print deal but her stocks still appear to be about in 3rd party stores)
Regarding Valrak hearing that the warmaster had been designed... Well yeah we basically already knew that. It's a standard part of the HH/LI development to design models in both scales at the same time to get details consistent, even if they don't intend to immediately make a full scale plastic kit. GW then use renders (or possibly 3D printed prototypes) of the higher detailed models in HH artwork, particularly for box art.
It's entirely possible that Valrak has just heard about this and is extrapolating it into a plastic warmaster in addition to the other kits.
True - even a plastic Warhound is a big investment from GW in a model that's still very much going to be purely a collectors piece for the vast majority who buy one and will see limited table time even for those who game.
I could see a Warhound lead a new round of the Apocalypse game. I wouldn't mind if they just polished/ rereleased the 2019 rules as they were quite nice.
Returning to the tabletop hobby, late last decade, to find 40K-sized Titans in the game and Epic-40K completely gone...was like Taylor discovering the Statue of Liberty at the end of The Planet of the Apes.
Overread wrote: Gamers want new original characters
Games also want new versions of original classic and favoured characters
Also didn't IG get a whole load of new characters - new leader of the Cadians; a new novel headed leader and retinue (though I think that was a one time print deal but her stocks still appear to be about in 3rd party stores)
We lost a bunch in the process and gained the daughter of everyone's favorite commander... and a couple guys on horses.
The Cadians got some ridiculously rare and straight to Legends stuff that makes me sad.
Titans are really not my thing, if they are going to concentrate on that then my wallet is safe.
Thinking about old Forgeworld minis, so much dropped from the catalogue so its good to see plastic replacements.
I really would have thought a plastic Thunderhawk would happen before a Warhound Titan. It's one of those kits that's been asked about so much for so long that even GW jokes about it happening.
xttz wrote: Regarding Valrak hearing that the warmaster had been designed... Well yeah we basically already knew that. It's a standard part of the HH/LI development to design models in both scales at the same time to get details consistent, even if they don't intend to immediately make a full scale plastic kit. GW then use renders (or possibly 3D printed prototypes) of the higher detailed models in HH artwork, particularly for box art.
It's entirely possible that Valrak has just heard about this and is extrapolating it into a plastic warmaster in addition to the other kits.
The HH titan rules very strongly imply that a 28mm (almost certainly resin) warmaster is planned.
The_Pilot wrote: I agree, the only part of the red gobbo I can actually see is his face, which kinda looks like he had his neck bones crushed and it’s now jutting out.
It's not terribly obvious, but in the bottom of the collage image you can see a bit of his torso. See spoiler below (spoilered for size). He's leaning out of the Vostroyan nutcracker's chest hatch.
The anatomy is fine as far as that goes with GW models. But as is so often the case, GW's photographers just can't resist taking pictures at the most unhelpful angles.
I think the issue is how the back of his coat pops up and makes his head look lower on the body than it is coupled with the beard covering it entirely from the front. It combines to make the head look likes its just floating out there rather than emerging from the viewport.
Do I need another titan? No, no I do not. Will I get one? Likely. I can see why they did a Warhound over a Thunkerhawk though. Every Imperial and Chaos army can use one. Plus, flyer rules are a bit janky at the moment.
SamusDrake wrote: Wait a moment, I can't find the Phantom or Revenant titans on the website.
Is one of those Imperial Armour books on the way? Maybe with the Warhound and Eldar Titans as the accompanying model releases?
I'd be surprised if they did, but the eldar titans will be simpler and easier to make with less parts than the imperial titans.
If they wanted to save money they could include chaos and drukhari parts in the boxes to allow each to make a titan for two factions. It would probably not be as comprehensive as a pure faction specific model, but certainly more feasible.
If we assume the Great Gargant (forgot I had a second one) are about the same as a Warlord, add in another 7,000. Imperator, 5000 more for my homebrew rules.
That's not including the 8 Knights, or Wraithknight.
xttz wrote: Regarding Valrak hearing that the warmaster had been designed... Well yeah we basically already knew that. It's a standard part of the HH/LI development to design models in both scales at the same time to get details consistent, even if they don't intend to immediately make a full scale plastic kit. GW then use renders (or possibly 3D printed prototypes) of the higher detailed models in HH artwork, particularly for box art.
It's entirely possible that Valrak has just heard about this and is extrapolating it into a plastic warmaster in addition to the other kits.
Yep, there are clues on the Warmaster model that it was sculpted at the larger scale, the obvious one being mounting sockets for underarm pistons that do not exist on the smaller scale model, the Warlord has the same thing, with the larger version actually having the pistons.
I would love a 40k scale Warmaster model as the original concept art was my favourite Titan design back when it first appeared in WD 106, but I'm not holding out much hope at this point, as FW seem to be winding down a lot of their resin production and I get the impression the Warbringer was maybe a bit of a flop.
They just need to do the Imperator version that has the castle on top, and it'll fly off the shelves.
It's the pretty much the right size from the artwork done for the Heresy books, (as cool as Battlebling's Warbreaker looks) it just needs all the fancy stuff up top.
Spoiler:
Head of the Imperator in line with the top guns of the Warlords marching just to the front and rear
Head of Warmaster in line with the top guns of Warlords
Biggest issue I see for Titanicus is that none of those guns were really anti-Titan weapons, but in LI a Titan having a bunch of extra battlecannons and an anti-air defense lasers is going to make all the difference, not to mention to anti-infantry regiment of Tech guard embarked on board to repell boarders.
Crimson wrote: 40K scale titans seems like colossal waste of resources.
I imagine the return is pretty large for each one sold, lets face it there'll be enough... buyers.
Are there though? I think we've just established they all get bought by cuda...
In all seriousness, we know they've paid the cost of designing the models so we'll ignore that for now, I can't remember the cost of the injection moulding for plastic but a £300 plastic Warhound is in profit after 100 sold maybe? For the Warmaster it'd be the cost of building a prototype, probably via 3d printing, creating the moulds for the resin and casting it. Then sell each one at 3.5 grand a pop and be in profit after the first one.
Last I heard of full scale is that the Warlord was pushing it with self supporting resin. Not sure how the Warbringer would work without reinforcement built in
In theory GW could transition their big resin models to in-house 3D printed ones. They’d never sell the .stl files to anyone, but I don’t see why they wouldn’t be willing to sell a printed warmaster to the small number of people that would be willing to buy one.
Presumably GW could use ‘better’ printers than the consumer-grade ones that most people use.
MajorWesJanson wrote: Last I heard of full scale is that the Warlord was pushing it with self supporting resin. Not sure how the Warbringer would work without reinforcement built in
I believe it was at the limit of what would reasonably stay together with superglue and no pinning, which apparently was a FW requirement. I'd hope that they could relax that rule for a £3k plus kit that is designed for experienced collectors. Though guess there's always the chance that little Timmy will get one for Christmas, to accompany his 10 unpainted Ultramarines to battle!
I did set aside £3k when the epic scale one came out (though probably will need to up that estimate as it's been a few years now) but I must admit, I'd be surprised if we did get one now.
A plastic Warhound, if sensibly priced, would make for awesome terrain. I was planning to make a modular "Knight maintenance bay" terrain piece at some point, but a Warhound would be even more impressive
semajnollissor wrote: In theory GW could transition their big resin models to in-house 3D printed ones. They’d never sell the .stl files to anyone, but I don’t see why they wouldn’t be willing to sell a printed warmaster to the small number of people that would be willing to buy one.
Presumably GW could use ‘better’ printers than the consumer-grade ones that most people use.
I read somewhere they use some laser/powder based printer that's a few leagues ahead of a liquid resin printers.
Dudeface wrote: I read somewhere they use some laser/powder based printer that's a few leagues ahead of a liquid resin printers.
Layer lines visible in Eavy Metal photos, and reproduced in forgeworld production models cast from 3d printed masters, put that to the lie, don't they.
Dudeface wrote: I read somewhere they use some laser/powder based printer that's a few leagues ahead of a liquid resin printers.
Layer lines visible in Eavy Metal photos, and reproduced in forgeworld production models cast from 3d printed masters, put that to the lie, don't they.
Not necessarily, it'd depend on their print settings and priorities.
Also there’s the idea that “different” is always the same as “better” which is hardly ever 100% correct. If they have an SLS printer instead of the more common consumer grade FDM setups then I’m sure it looked and sounded more impressive to whoever was the original source for that rumour, but that isn’t necessarily true.
MajorWesJanson wrote: Last I heard of full scale is that the Warlord was pushing it with self supporting resin. Not sure how the Warbringer would work without reinforcement built in
It could be possible to cast resin with inbuilt stainless steel rods to help support the weight and prevent bending. Also inbuilt threaded steel inserts.
MajorWesJanson wrote: Last I heard of full scale is that the Warlord was pushing it with self supporting resin. Not sure how the Warbringer would work without reinforcement built in
MajorWesJanson wrote: Last I heard of full scale is that the Warlord was pushing it with self supporting resin. Not sure how the Warbringer would work without reinforcement built in
MajorWesJanson wrote: Last I heard of full scale is that the Warlord was pushing it with self supporting resin. Not sure how the Warbringer would work without reinforcement built in
I believe it was at the limit of what would reasonably stay together with superglue and no pinning, which apparently was a FW requirement. I'd hope that they could relax that rule for a £3k plus kit that is designed for experienced collectors. Though guess there's always the chance that little Timmy will get one for Christmas, to accompany his 10 unpainted Ultramarines to battle!
I did set aside £3k when the epic scale one came out (though probably will need to up that estimate as it's been a few years now) but I must admit, I'd be surprised if we did get one now.
That also assumes it will just be a resin kit. For 3k+ I can realistically believe that GW could include some other materials that help the stability if its necessary. Be that either metal pinning rods with pre-made holes in the body or something else
Mr_Rose wrote: Also there’s the idea that “different” is always the same as “better” which is hardly ever 100% correct. If they have an SLS printer instead of the more common consumer grade FDM setups then I’m sure it looked and sounded more impressive to whoever was the original source for that rumour, but that isn’t necessarily true.
I think it's largely academic anyway, if they wre concerned with print lines in promotional shots, they'd remove them. They're more than capable of paying and putting in the time/effort, even if it's a touch up after the fact. They simply don't care to because it doesn't bother them as far as I can tell.
MajorWesJanson wrote: Last I heard of full scale is that the Warlord was pushing it with self supporting resin. Not sure how the Warbringer would work without reinforcement built in
Just pose it crawling! Problem solved!
Build it with it's gun arms bursting through a building for support. Or prop it up with an oil tanker it's swinging like in Pacific Rim. so many options
cuda1179 wrote: It could be possible to cast resin with inbuilt stainless steel rods to help support the weight and prevent bending. Also inbuilt threaded steel inserts.
It's not. The shrinkage that occurs during curing means the resin is likely to develop cracks. The best you can do is cast it with voids, for rods to be inserted into later, but of course those voids will also suffer shrinkage so won't be a perfect fit and will require the usual degree of clean-up and filling.
cuda1179 wrote: It could be possible to cast resin with inbuilt stainless steel rods to help support the weight and prevent bending. Also inbuilt threaded steel inserts.
It's not. The shrinkage that occurs during curing means the resin is likely to develop cracks. The best you can do is cast it with voids, for rods to be inserted into later, but of course those voids will also suffer shrinkage so won't be a perfect fit and will require the usual degree of clean-up and filling.
Darn, didn't know there was that much shrinkage. I thought it would be like adding rebar to concrete. Hm... I might have to test this. I have a bunch of resin left over, and a bunch of 3mm titanium rods. Interested to see what happens.
If they are going to do the Warhound in plastic, they might be better suited doing the Dire Wolf in resin full scale instead of a warmaster. It would take over the warhound slot as small resin titan, and has a specialist big gun role that would make it stand out from the plastic warhound, plus be usable in games the size that fit a plastic warhound so would sell more than a king piece.
MajorWesJanson wrote: If they are going to do the Warhound in plastic, they might be better suited doing the Dire Wolf in resin full scale instead of a warmaster. It would take over the warhound slot as small resin titan, and has a specialist big gun role that would make it stand out from the plastic warhound, plus be usable in games the size that fit a plastic warhound so would sell more than a king piece.
How about a resin add-on kit for the plastic Warhound? They did that originally with the Baneblade when that first came out. Heck, I think that was the only way the StormBlade was ever available aftr the plastic version was out.
If you look at the resin warhound, the number and size of parts combined don't look any bigger than the plastic baneblade really. The biggest parts are the carapace cowling, which would need to come in multiple pieces.
The only reason I can think they've not done it before is the cost benefit analysis, as their points are so high, it would be hard to get enough sold.
The eldar ones are even easier to make. If you did a basic sprue and none of the overly fancy cuts GW have been doing, each revenant titan is going to be about as many parts as the wraithknight, just bigger. Each leg will be 2 thigh parts, a knee join, 2 shin parts, feet etc.
The sprue layout would be pretty compact because they're all straight line cylinders that can line up alongside one another.
The bigger question for me is if GW will follow the piston design of the FW warhound or not. With each one being poseable, or whether they'll lock the design in a single position with multiple options.
Personally I love the individual pistons so you can completely control how you pose it.
You have to consider that at 40K scales that size of model is expensive on all fronts
1) It's expensive to manufacture
2) It's expensive to buy (very)
3) It's expensive to build and paint (this is a cost in money and time/resources)
4) It's expensive to field on the tabletop in points. This means fewer games can accept one in the first place.
5) It's going to require some custom transporting option to get it too and from the game table safely.
Basically there's a lot riding on such a model. Yes we've had a LOT of big models added in plastic to the core game. Heck Tyranid heirodules are not much better than many larger Tyranid plastic models today and those heirodules were once counted as "titan" class (finally downgraded to heavysupport before GW then removed them from sale)
So we have seen the accepted size of models go up. However once you get beyond the size of a knight you are really pushing into extremes. Yes people would buy them, but not a huge number. Honestly I would consider such a project more aimed at collectors/vanity project for GW staff over one with a sound financial incentive.
That's well into the size of model that is taking up multiple design and production slots to make
Would it be cool - yes
Could GW do it - yes
However I still think it unlikely.
You have to consider that at 40K scales that size of model is expensive on all fronts
1) It's expensive to manufacture
2) It's expensive to buy (very)
3) It's expensive to build and paint (this is a cost in money and time/resources)
4) It's expensive to field on the tabletop in points. This means fewer games can accept one in the first place.
5) It's going to require some custom transporting option to get it too and from the game table safely.
Basically there's a lot riding on such a model. Yes we've had a LOT of big models added in plastic to the core game. Heck Tyranid heirodules are not much better than many larger Tyranid plastic models today and those heirodules were once counted as "titan" class (finally downgraded to heavysupport before GW then removed them from sale)
So we have seen the accepted size of models go up. However once you get beyond the size of a knight you are really pushing into extremes. Yes people would buy them, but not a huge number. Honestly I would consider such a project more aimed at collectors/vanity project for GW staff over one with a sound financial incentive.
That's well into the size of model that is taking up multiple design and production slots to make
Would it be cool - yes
Could GW do it - yes
However I still think it unlikely.
I bet it'd sell more kits than a plastic Fellblade.
Hellebore wrote: The bigger question for me is if GW will follow the piston design of the FW warhound or not. With each one being poseable, or whether they'll lock the design in a single position with multiple options.
Personally I love the individual pistons so you can completely control how you pose it.
They could presumably do it similar to the HH Knight kits, individual pistons and potentially fully posable joints, but with locating pins that put it into a default pose that need to be trimmed off if you want to repose it. Best of both worlds that way.
You have to consider that at 40K scales that size of model is expensive on all fronts
1) It's expensive to manufacture
2) It's expensive to buy (very)
3) It's expensive to build and paint (this is a cost in money and time/resources)
4) It's expensive to field on the tabletop in points. This means fewer games can accept one in the first place.
5) It's going to require some custom transporting option to get it too and from the game table safely.
Basically there's a lot riding on such a model. Yes we've had a LOT of big models added in plastic to the core game. Heck Tyranid heirodules are not much better than many larger Tyranid plastic models today and those heirodules were once counted as "titan" class (finally downgraded to heavysupport before GW then removed them from sale)
So we have seen the accepted size of models go up. However once you get beyond the size of a knight you are really pushing into extremes. Yes people would buy them, but not a huge number. Honestly I would consider such a project more aimed at collectors/vanity project for GW staff over one with a sound financial incentive.
That's well into the size of model that is taking up multiple design and production slots to make
Would it be cool - yes
Could GW do it - yes
However I still think it unlikely.
I bet it'd sell more kits than a plastic Fellblade.
Interesting, isn’t it. A Fellblade is an expansion for an existing popular army while a Warhound is the effective core of a different, less popular army that potentially might become noticeably more popular if its core kit was cheaper.
It’s an interesting equation to try and balance, particularly with the hidden costs of tooling and design behind it.
There's also potential that the Warhound will get a LOT of talk of people wanting to own one; but which translates into a lot less actual purchasing. Even if its part of the larger game (40K) and can work in both 40K and 30K, it's still going to be a very high ticket item in all respects.
Meanwhile the Fellblade might not be as uniquely hot an item, but could translate into more sales as its more practical to afford and put on the table.
Mr_Rose wrote: Interesting, isn’t it. A Fellblade is an expansion for an existing popular army while a Warhound is the effective core of a different, less popular army that potentially might become noticeably more popular if its core kit was cheaper.
It’s an interesting equation to try and balance, particularly with the hidden costs of tooling and design behind it.
Huh? Every HH army and all 40k Imperial and Chaos armies can take a Warhound.
Basically any army can take a Warhound as long as its not a 40K Xenos
Mechanicus, Space Marines, Imperial Guard, Sisters of Battle, Chaos, Chaos Demons etc... Granted for some the points limit goes up because it has to be an ally unit and thus you need a bigger game to get a bigger allies allotment of points, but yeah basically unless you're a 40K Xenos army you can probably legally take a Warhound.
It still doesn't get around the fact that if it happened it would still be a very very high priced model; and very large and very high in points costs so you've a good chunk of barriers against it being a popular high-selling item.
Overread wrote: Basically any army can take a Warhound as long as its not a 40K Xenos
Mechanicus, Space Marines, Imperial Guard, Sisters of Battle, Chaos, Chaos Demons etc... Granted for some the points limit goes up because it has to be an ally unit and thus you need a bigger game to get a bigger allies allotment of points, but yeah basically unless you're a 40K Xenos army you can probably legally take a Warhound.
It still doesn't get around the fact that if it happened it would still be a very very high priced model; and very large and very high in points costs so you've a good chunk of barriers against it being a popular high-selling item.
This is why I think that if a plastic warhound does happen, it will be marketed much more towards 30k than 40k.
40k has been shying away from super-heavy scale kits in recent years, with many xenos models being removed from the range. It would be odd to push 40k Apocalypse again after dropping Eldar titans, Hierodules, etc.
Meanwhile in heresy imperial titans can be used by any player, and 3.0 recently revised the core rules for titan-size models to encourage them.
Spoiler:
I also suspect that these days HH players are the biggest spenders when it comes to buying centrepiece models & obscenely large collections for a single faction
On plastic Warhounds and plastic Fellblades, the one that sells the most is the one that is useable by the most factions in the most game systems and is also a desirable collectors piece, without having to buy extra books to get rules. It's the titan and it's not even close.
If GW wanted to sell a ton more tanks, they would need to make HH tanks matched play legal in 40k, until then they won't come close to the combined interest/excitement/demand a plastic titan would create.
Shakalooloo wrote: The Archon's up for a solo release and his battleforce hasn't even sold out yet! Is that a new big box -> solo release pipeline record?
I was talking to the staffer at my local GW about how there were a lot of things I was interested, but none had release dates, so I didn’t think I’d be picking up anything on Warhammer Day. He theorized that we might get good news on today’s announcement, as they will be available for pre-order. Turns out he was right.
I’ll probably pass on the TDA box, but covet a lot of the Ultras…
Shakalooloo wrote: The Archon's up for a solo release and his battleforce hasn't even sold out yet! Is that a new big box -> solo release pipeline record?
Its vastly superior to the old days of duel boxes where the unique models could take a year or more (sometimes) to come on on individual sale
Shakalooloo wrote: The Archon's up for a solo release and his battleforce hasn't even sold out yet! Is that a new big box -> solo release pipeline record?
Its vastly superior to the old days of duel boxes where the unique models could take a year or more (sometimes) to come on on individual sale
Makes me wonder why they even bothered with the big box. Unless they're just throwing it out there just to gauge interest in Drukhari.
Shakalooloo wrote: The Archon's up for a solo release and his battleforce hasn't even sold out yet! Is that a new big box -> solo release pipeline record?
Its vastly superior to the old days of duel boxes where the unique models could take a year or more (sometimes) to come on on individual sale
Makes me wonder why they even bothered with the big box. Unless they're just throwing it out there just to gauge interest in Drukhari.
It is a pretty solid box, especially with the combat patrol being coven focused. Between those 2, you get almost all of the non vehicle kits in the DE range.
Shakalooloo wrote: The Archon's up for a solo release and his battleforce hasn't even sold out yet! Is that a new big box -> solo release pipeline record?
Its vastly superior to the old days of duel boxes where the unique models could take a year or more (sometimes) to come on on individual sale
Makes me wonder why they even bothered with the big box. Unless they're just throwing it out there just to gauge interest in Drukhari.
It is a pretty solid box, especially with the combat patrol being coven focused. Between those 2, you get almost all of the non vehicle kits in the DE range.
And it hasn't sold out. Guess stripping options from an army range isn't a useful way of attracting new players to it.
What new units would be appropriate for Dark Eldar?
They don't have an Assassin-type unit, do they? Mandrakes have that fluff role, but they don't do it on the tabletop.
JNAProductions wrote: What new units would be appropriate for Dark Eldar?
They don't have an Assassin-type unit, do they? Mandrakes have that fluff role, but they don't do it on the tabletop.
They used to have a Mandrake special character who liked to hide in the shadows of important people so he could take their heads.
I don’t know if he even rates a fluff mention anymore…
There was the fluff about corrupted Wraithguard guarding Commorrah in the path trilogy. Moving the Tantalus over to plastic. Beastmasters could come back with a whole menagerie. Harlequins and rangers have 2 person bikes, Dark eldar could do the same. Heavy weapon venoms
Well, we need the Court, Beasts, Grotesques and Urien at minimum.
Archon and Succubus on bikes would be great; Succubus on a Skyboard would be great.
Then of course:
Kheradruahk, aka Decapitator
Sliscus
Baron Sathonyx
Vect and the Dias
A plastic Tantalus would be nice, especially if it's a dual build for Vect and the Dias.
Beyond that, any expansion to Corsairs is also an expansion to Drukhari by proxy, so a generic Prince, plus Yriel (could be done as a dual build), a jump unit and a transport Aircraft (as opposed to hover tank, which Corsairs can already use).
That's a quick wishlist- if I (or GW) actually put thought into anything but Marines, there's a ton more potential.
Oh yeah... Dream of dreams, some terrain kits for the many flavours of Eldar wouldn't suck either.
