Tau will get a big release for Kroot, either new combat patrol or new launch box with 20 new kroot, 2 new characters, cavalry and a big gun all dedicated to kroot. One of the kroot characters is riding something. [CORRECT] Also a melee ethereal seems to be a commemorative series model, could be the new store birthday model for next year? [CORRECT]
Space wolves will likely take until the end of the edition but should be getting big things. [UNCONFIRMED] Blood Angels with new Sanguinary Priest and Sanguinary Guard but no idea when they will release [UNCONFIRMED] Dark Angels, in addition to the old rumours about Deathwing stuff they will get a new combat patrol: five hellblasters, ten intercessors, three bladeguard and gravis captain. [UNCONFIRMED] There will also be a new upgrade sprue [CORRECT]
Valrak looking good these days. Please keep the summary posts coming, I don't want to watch his videos
With the supplement out soon, I'd expect to hear about the DACP box in the next couple of weeks. Perhaps this Monday.
Dysartes wrote: Arguably the point about the Kroot army set should read mostly correct, given neither character in it appears to be riding anything.
This is the only wobbly bit as he admits to knowing very little of some armies ranges. He was told that there was a kroot character riding something (which does look to be the case still) leading a unit of kroot cavalry which were completely new. If he doesn't know what a krootox is and hasn't seen the army shot, you can see how he'd reach that conclusion.
Hmmm Space Wolves at the end of the year you say?
How comically nonsensical will they be this time?
Lord Wolfington clad in tactical lupine armour and armed with the fang claymore powered pointy killy sword thingy and riding into battle on Ralph, his loyal megawolf with monstrous were fangs?
All honesty I'm pretty hyped, Dark Angels have been updated very well from a model perspective so I think we're in safe hands now(!)...
Dysartes wrote: I thought he'd converted some form of flat-bed Rhino to use as a transport for his Dreadnoughts - possibly using the VDR kit, back in t'day - but I could be wrong on that.
If so, you could argue that eventually evolved into the Impulsor...
Very early in the 2nd edition of the game (or was it third?) A Rhino could take 1 dreadnought. But that was in the brief window of the 'getting started' army lists and vanished pretty quickly.
Tau will get a big release for Kroot, either new combat patrol or new launch box with 20 new kroot, 2 new characters, cavalry and a big gun all dedicated to kroot. One of the kroot characters is riding something. [CORRECT]
Valrak looking good these days.
LOLwhat?
This was comically wrong, no characters riding anything, no big gun, no details of anything, random kid on 4chan could make this "prediction". 20 troops, like oh, every other new army box, cavalry (super low hanging fruit, because every army gets one these days, and krootox are a big thing in kroot armies that desperately needed transition from resin, but the "prediction" is so low detail he didn't even namedrop them), and multiple characters, again, like every other new army box. Just look at boxes as different as Lumineth, Lizardmen, and the most recent Deathwing one - they ALL fit this pattern! This is not a "prediction", this is calling water wet
You can make "prediction" of 2x troop box (20 models is safe guess, but can be 10 or 6 depending on army), multiple characters, and cavalry/elite infantry/vehicle (depending on faction flavor) about anyGW army box and it will be correct 95% of the time. It's only starting to get 'correct' when you give either loadouts or unit names, and V does it only when he manages to steal the rumor from actually good source. Funny that.
That clown "predicted" new Deathwing Knights in Vashtorr/Azrael box (oops, turned out to be old models), then 10th edition starter (oops, turned out to be generic terminators, so fanboys excused him as being unable to distinguish them from DK), then finally GW randomly dropped teaser of them without warning, and I rolled my eyes when his fanboy brigade claimed he was cOrReCt only oh, year late, 3 wrong boxes later, not predicting massively changed loadouts or anything, getting Belial (another trivially easy guess) look and gear wrong (but doing it multiple times with slightly changed details in several videos so you could cherrypick most "correct" one then claim he was "right" much like people hamfistedly pick Nostradamus poems to fit whatever event X he "foresaw") - such prediction, much wow, about as "impressive" as the above one
Ditto with his Solar Auxilia guess (virtually all details wrong besides the above pattern of contents being kinda sorta right), and I somehow don't saw him predicting blind seeres with black wings, or beauty/beast Deathgorge team, or any of the new models that would be actually new and not just trivial guess - funny that. For some reason he never makes these unless he manages to steal info from earlier rumordump from actually reliable people (and his fanboy groupies also ignore the fact 8/10 of his "predictions" that aren't just trivial guesses turn out to be laughable drivel that never turns out to be correct, thankfully for him no one has time to sift hours and hours of his babbling to point these out, so his blinkered fanboys can just ignore these and focus on trivial guesses anyone can make and claim he was rIgHt - but I still remember how he "predicted" plastic warhound titan, 40K Dorn, plastic Deredeo, plastic mk 2 marines, and lots of other nonsense dozens if not hundreds of times since 2016 - oh wait, my bad, GWfinally released plastic Deredeo seven years after his "prediction". Guess usual clowns can credit him for pReDiCtInG it now too! )...
H.B.M.C. wrote: I love how worked up some people get when Valrak is right.
I know, I enjoyed the "got the contents of the SA box sorta kinda right". The main said 20 infantry a command squad, a sentinel, a russ and some kind of transport. How much more right can someone need to be. Regards kroot, the only thing he got wrong was the mounted character which if you don't know kroot is an easy mistake and/or saw the new year preview mini alongside the box and thought they were together.
Valrak himself has always seemed a bit gormless to me, he's very loud and proud in not knowing much outside the Sons of Dorn, but his source is usually on the money, if you can decipher what's actual second-hand information inside the rambling format videos he needs to make to maintain an audience.
If you've ever seen the comments on a WarhammerTV stream (I'd advise keeping chat closed), a guy not knowing what a Krootox is still rates pretty well in the community at large.
I suspect Valrak being a hype/rumor outlet for GW marketing, knowingly or not. His source is likely someone drip feeding upcoming designs in various degrees of accuracy before GW decide what goes into which boxset. So he's always kinda right insofar as to what is coming, but ne never nails the exact context in which it is released. In any case, he has established himself as a fairly reliable source for what one can expect to see down the line.
BertBert wrote: I suspect Valrak being a hype/rumor outlet for GW marketing, knowingly or not. His source is likely someone drip feeding upcoming designs in various degrees of accuracy before GW decide what goes into which boxset.
I'm not convinced by this, that kind of thing tends to be decided a very long time in advance and a lot of his specific information tends to be a few months before release.
Personally I'd bet his source is someone involved in packaging / distribution. They're seeing the stuff getting designed or boxed up then starting the telephone game effect of passing details along.
Personally, I have trouble believing thst Valrak is so "gormless" (learned a new word today, thanks!!) that after like a decade in the hobby he has no idea what a krootox is.
Actually, I can believe that because the krootox isn't often seen on table and us kinda obscure, but it's not just the krootox. There's a long long list of things which he's professed unfamiliarity with, which would only be possible if he was living on an island with two other space marine players and had never played a game against another opponent.
Right for those wanting to get the termis watch out because element games posted
"A Notice Regarding Warhammer 40,000: Deathwing Assault.
We are disappointed to report that stock allocations are very low for this release. Therefore we will not be able to offer them for online sale, and will have very limited stock in our physical stores. We have also been made aware that there will not be a re-stock of this item.
Kind regards, The EG Team"
I have to say this is the 3rd Comms in a row from Element, started with Christmas bundles and seems to be the new trend there. Not sure whats going on.
chaos0xomega wrote: There's a long long list of things which he's professed unfamiliarity with, which would only be possible if he was living on an island with two other space marine players and had never played a game against another opponent.
Well, he's British, so I think he does live on an island???
As someone who once had some proper insider scoops? It’s hard to be a reliable rumour monger and not come across as smug. Because genuine excitement and smugness, especially in the written form easily blur.
What were my early rumours? Well, many many many years ago. Like, probably 20 or more? I was the one to provide genuine, solid info that post-3rd Ed, Assault Cannons were no longer crap. Because they had rending.
This was on Portent/Warseer. And I still remember some utter, utter nerk saying I was talking out of my posterior, because the shooting version of Rending was aCtUaLlY called Reaping.
Caused a mild hoo-ha, for all of the few minutes it took me to upload a picture of the shiny new rule book
Referring to your proclivity for posing questions that you answer yourself. Not calling you out/just curious, I actually find it terribly endearing (platonically), something I noticed the other day and which has popped into my head a few times randomly away from dakka.
I wonder why GW bothers sending sets out to reviewers when they have so few to sell that everywhere is sold out before people have a chance to even watch the free marketing from reviewers
They are listed as "Temporarily Out of Stock" rather than "Sold Out", but I imagine that's just the high quality GW site being high quality and saying the wrong thing.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: I wonder why GW bothers sending sets out to reviewers when they have so few to sell that everywhere is sold out before people have a chance to even watch the free marketing from reviewers
They are listed as "Temporarily Out of Stock" rather than "Sold Out", but I imagine that's just the high quality GW site being high quality and saying the wrong thing.
It really is weird that they insist on a 10am GMT embargo time for this review content when that's well after Australia, Europe, etc have gone on sale and UK customers often get barely a minute to read reviews before the products are sold out. Barring leaks it's only really a benefit to US & Canada who get up early enough.
I don't understand why they can't just lift the embargo on the Sunday/Monday when the preorders are confirmed.
I still thought there might have been some mistake as the Gravis captain can't lead anyone here but seems like they don't care for the Combat Patrol gamemode.
Wondering if there is at least an upgrade sprue in here, since it wouldn't even be good value if there isn't.
Would only be 18% discount vs on average 25% on the new Necron/Admech ones and 36% on average for the 9th edition CPs
Nice to see lots of Deathwing Assault boxes on eBay for a hefty mark up.
For non UK, the UK press recently had articles reporting that eBay would be required to hand over details of sales to our Revenue and Customs and that those selling over £1000 per annum 'could' be facing a tax bill.
There is small print. If you are selling second half stuff on for less than was originally paid would be unlikely to be chased.
I wonder, however, if private sellers, maybe scalpers, who are buying product then immediately shifting it on for a profit could find themselves in the taxman ctosshairs if there is a definite pattern to their eBay activity.
I wouldn't cry if serial scalper received a hefty tax bill.
Those appear to be ETB Hellblasters and that's quite sickening to me in this specific case. Some ETB I like, some I'm ambivalent, here it's a huge downgrade imo.
JWBS wrote: Those appear to be ETB Hellblasters and that's quite sickening to me in this specific case. Some ETB I like, some I'm ambivalent, here it's a huge downgrade imo.
There are no ETB Hellblasters. There is only the normal kit and the Dark Imperium Hellblasters which came on the same sprue as other stuff so wouldn't be in here.
Also you can easily see the one in the middle has the exact pose as the rearmost right one from the normal kit:
Nice to see lots of Deathwing Assault boxes on eBay for a hefty mark up.
For non UK, the UK press recently had articles reporting that eBay would be required to hand over details of sales to our Revenue and Customs and that those selling over £1000 per annum 'could' be facing a tax bill.
There is small print. If you are selling second half stuff on for less than was originally paid would be unlikely to be chased.
I wonder, however, if private sellers, maybe scalpers, who are buying product then immediately shifting it on for a profit could find themselves in the taxman ctosshairs if there is a definite pattern to their eBay activity.
I wouldn't cry if serial scalper received a hefty tax bill.
They’re already liable. Buying and selling goods for profit is taxable. HRMC are just starting to crack down, is all.
It’s taxable as income, yes. But VAT rules are weird. It’s something I’m barely acquainted with thanks to hobby activities I might be able to turn into second income, but there is a threshold before you become liable for tax.
Scalper Reselling however? The VAT has already been paid, because it’s charged at the point of sale. And I’ve absolutely no idea, and can’t be bothered to research, whether HMRC can double dip where the goods are resold As New and unopened.
I would imagine that if resellers are charging more than the original price of the box that there is some sort of "value" being added to justify that markup
It’s taxable as income, yes. But VAT rules are weird. It’s something I’m barely acquainted with thanks to hobby activities I might be able to turn into second income, but there is a threshold before you become liable for tax.
Scalper Reselling however? The VAT has already been paid, because it’s charged at the point of sale. And I’ve absolutely no idea, and can’t be bothered to research, whether HMRC can double dip where the goods are resold As New and unopened.
VAT wise you have to charge VAT at every step in the chain, but you can deduct the VAT you paid your supplier from the VAT you owe. Essentially this means you only pay additional VAT on your margin.
So if the scalper paid GW £120 (£100 + £20 VAT) for a box and charged £240 for it they’d owe HMRC £20 (£40 - £20 already paid). Obviously, the greater margin they put over the GW price, the more VAT they owe.
There’s also a minimum annual threshold for owing VAT (called ‘de minimus’, which is why if you only sell a few things on eBay you don’t owe VAT). It’s not huge, but the smaller scalpers could still be below it.
I suspect this change will just accelerate what's already happened for the secondhand market which is more and more happening through FB trade groups rather than Ebay
Different countries having different laws and makes a difference if you are a private seller or business
like in my country I pay taxes for the yearly income and any sales I make would need to be added to all my other earnings for the amount of tax I need to pay
but for private sales the tax free amount of additional income is 700€ per year, so if all my ebay profits stay below that I pay no additional taxes
if my yearly income is 30k from the regular job and 5k from ebay sales, I have to pay taxes for 34,3k
chaos0xomega wrote: I got myself 3 copies. Don't care what the consensus is, Terminators armies are cool.
Weren't you just saying that you bought like 15 boxes of Tomb Kings as well? Guess when your hobby is buying cardboard boxes with Games Workshop artwork on them, your value proposition is different than the rest of us.
Hopefully whoever you sell these to on the secondary market appreciates the discount, and gets as much enjoyment out of building and painting them as you got from buying the box.
Some of you guys seem overly obsessed and/or incredibly butthurt about how I spend my hobby budget and what I choose to build and play with. I hate to disappoint you but the only things getting sold are 2 extra Codex supplements and 2 extra asmodais, I already have a paint scheme and conversions in mind for the rest.
And yes, I bought 14 boxes of tomb kings stuff which i am still waiting for delivery on, all of which were individual kits and not the big box. It works out to around 2300 pts. Don't really see what the problem is with buying most of a 2500 pt army in one go - you sound petty and jealous, and nothing else.
It's just such a bizarre flex that you never fail to include in your posts, I can totally see why it bothers people. I buy far more stuff than I can get through in a reasonable amount of time, but I don't feel the need to drop my purchasing numbers constantly.
I usually only really say I got something to indicate positivity for something, ie "putting my money where my mouth is" kind of thing. In this case, everyone is saying dark angels got done dirty and the new box sucks or whatever, and that may be true - I wouldn't know because I didn't collect them previously or ever pay much attention to them before now - but the new sculpts are cool as are Terminators with plasma cannons, so feth it I'm starting my own Unforgiven chapter 1st company.
(also one wonders if he mistook the 14 boxes as 14 big boxes? That WOULD be kind of crazy ;D And would make wonder how on earth you would get chance to buy those since they got sold out. Doubt my local FLGS would have sold me 14 if I asked for 14...)
tneva82 wrote: Excitement and positivity isn't allowed here
(also one wonders if he mistook the 14 boxes as 14 big boxes? That WOULD be kind of crazy ;D And would make wonder how on earth you would get chance to buy those since they got sold out. Doubt my local FLGS would have sold me 14 if I asked for 14...)
Certainly feels that way (in regards to both statements).
tneva82 wrote: Excitement and positivity isn't allowed here
(also one wonders if he mistook the 14 boxes as 14 big boxes? That WOULD be kind of crazy ;D And would make wonder how on earth you would get chance to buy those since they got sold out. Doubt my local FLGS would have sold me 14 if I asked for 14...)
Certainly feels that way (in regards to both statements).
I'm sorry, but you are only allowed to be excited within the official Excitement Guidelines as stipulated on your agreement to enter The Hobby.
Positivity is also rationed on a per month basis and if you exceed your allocation then you will be fined for each breach until you reach a new month.
You will find all these details on "Me and THE HOBBY" pages 42 and 69.
Note if you want to cancel your involvement with "The Hobby" then we require you to return your membership fee; pay the cancellation processing fee and fill in forms 1-20 in Triplicate and get them signed by your local MP And GP before we can allow you to leave.
Nec:
Hypercrypt 3" Deep-strike can't be used on C'tan
all C'tans +10pts
DE:
Grotesques -5pts per model
Wracks -2pts per model
Haemonculus -10pts
Urien Rakarth -10pts
Talos -15pts
CSM:
Chaos Lord +40pts
Chosen +4pts per model
Forgefiend +20pts
Accursed Cultists are unable to take Chaos Marks
You are now unable to put a unit with mark X into a transport with mark Y
(for example you can no logner put Undivided unit into a Nurgle Rhino but Nurgle unit in a Nurgle rhino is fine)
Custodes:
Allarus can be now taken as a unit of 1
All characters -10pts
DG:
Plague Marines +2pts per model
AdMech:
Doctrina imperatives now also affect no-mans land
Aeldari:
Yncarne now unable to charge after doing his teleport
Leagues of Votann:
Sagitaurs +10pts
Chaos Daemons:
Nurglings +10pts
All big boys(LoC, Bloodthirster etc.) -10pts
IK:
Reversal of the last Bondsman nerf.
units with 0OC can't make any sort of Action
all Rhinos +10pts
The 0oc no action would be nice in solving overabundance of action monkeys...but should have been in from get-go. Now units that had use for that have very little use at all.
We won't see 3x1 ripper swarm in every tyranid list...but do we see them at all?
tneva82 wrote: The 0oc no action would be nice in solving overabundance of action monkeys...but should have been in from get-go. Now units that had use for that have very little use at all.
We won't see 3x1 ripper swarm in every tyranid list...but do we see them at all?
I think it effectively leaves Nids out of competitive play as-is iirc? A lot of their ability to play and score comes from 0oc units in their various guises.
Dudeface wrote: Supposed dataslate and points leaks, full set to drop Thursday according to this:
new Dataslate leaks
Custodes:
Allarus can be now taken as a unit of 1
All characters -10pts
running solo allarus seems cute, but considering where the rest of the army is right now, i don't know if this is going to remotely help. points cuts for bikes or giving us a real detachment rule would be much prefered (but i guess our codex is coming soon, so they might want to do something so drastic at this point)
This post has now been taken down. I've heard (but can't confirm) that these changes were taken from a discussion about possible changes in a private league Discord, then posted to Reddit "for a laugh".
Though there is a high chance that you are correct I wish the nerf to Imperial Knights is walked back. No overwatch, changes to towering, and no spread of bondsman's abilities was an overnerf.
Miguelsan wrote: Though there is a high chance that you are correct I wish the nerf to Imperial Knights is walked back. No overwatch, changes to towering, and no spread of bondsman's abilities was an overnerf.
M.
Chaos Knights auras only affect War Dogs, so this puts the two armies in line with each other. But since Code Chivalric and Noble Lance are better than Harbingers of Dread and Traitoris Lance, maybe dial it back a bit, yeah?
Probably already known to many on here, but GW confirmed in a comment on more than one of their FB posts that the balance dataslate is coming next week.
There is a second Votann wave coming but he doesn't know what's in it yet. What he does know is that the next Votann release will be via Kill Team in the form of Pioneers on foot vs Brood Brothers (upgrades for the new Cadians) in the next Kill Team box.
Blood Angels are getting a boxset with their codex, no info about the exact contents yet.
Previously he talked about new Sanguinary Guard, new Sanguinary Priest, new Lemartes, new Astorath, new Sanguinor so it will likely have some of these inside.
He's hearing a lot about plastic Krieg and thinks they will come at the end of this year.
Also a bit about HH:
In terms of books the Scouring is next.
The Magaera Knight is moving from resin to plastic, not sure about the Styrix as he only said Questoris knight and showed an image of the Magaera but I would be surprised if its not both of them.
Also big thinks for the Admech in HH but more in a future video
Miguelsan wrote: Though there is a high chance that you are correct I wish the nerf to Imperial Knights is walked back. No overwatch, changes to towering, and no spread of bondsman's abilities was an overnerf.
M.
Chaos Knights auras only affect War Dogs, so this puts the two armies in line with each other. But since Code Chivalric and Noble Lance are better than Harbingers of Dread and Traitoris Lance, maybe dial it back a bit, yeah?
Reckon the way that vehicles - especially towering vehicles - interact with ruins needs looking at, 'cos its all ruins now, in most tournaments at least. In my opinion the main reason chaos knights are more competative right now is the walk through walls strat.
There is a second Votann wave coming but he doesn't know what's in it yet. What he does know is that the next Votann release will be via Kill Team in the form of Pioneers on foot vs Brood Brothers (upgrades for the new Cadians) in the next Kill Team box.
Blood Angels are getting a boxset with their codex, no info about the exact contents yet.
Previously he talked about new Sanguinary Guard, new Sanguinary Priest, new Lemartes, new Astorath, new Sanguinor so it will likely have some of these inside.
He's hearing a lot about plastic Krieg and thinks they will come at the end of this year.
Also a bit about HH:
In terms of books the Scouring is next.
The Magaera Knight is moving from resin to plastic, not sure about the Styrix as he only said Questoris knight and showed an image of the Magaera but I would be surprised if its not both of them.
Also big thinks for the Admech in HH but more in a future video
This pleases me.
Edit - Wait - are we talking about the Magaera for LI scale or for full scale?? I initially assumed it was for LI but now I'm understanding it to be the full scale?
Edit - Wait - are we talking about the Magaera for LI scale or for full scale?? I initially assumed it was for LI but now I'm understanding it to be the full scale?
As far as I understand the Magaera and the "big things for Admech" are for full scale HH. I have no doubt that that will also coincide with their release for LI, same as the Solar Auxilia are in both games now but Valrak only talked about HH here
What he does know is that the next Votann release will be via Kill Team in the form of Pioneers on foot vs Brood Brothers (upgrades for the new Cadians) in the next Kill Team box.
-_- i do not think that a new brood brothers upgrade is what genestealers need right now. as far as infantry go, we already acolytes and neophytes, plus metamorphs, aberrants, and purestrains. yet another infantry kit (and one that largely just fills the same niche as neophyes) would be pretty disappointing. i hope this means we're getting something more meaningful with our codex, and not just another character...
Kinda agree with that. The only benefit of Brood Brothers is to bring in things like Sentinels, the Leman Russ, and field ordnance, etc. The infantry units themselves are otherwise largely redundant to what is already available to the army.
I really don't feel like they should make any changes to towering or ruins or how they interact. Knights are extremely tough, high wound models which typically have high damage output. The trade off for that is you're easier to hide from and harder to hide. I think that is exactly how it should be. Plus look what happened before they changed how towering units and ruins interacted. Knights had a field day just blasting everything off the table. Nobody probably except Knights players wants to go back to that.
In the grim darkness of the far future, you’ll find comprehensive rules for using Space Marine Scouts in Kill Team. Not content to let the Imperium have all that stealthy fun, the Hive Mind has concocted a brand new Combat Patrol centred around its vanguard organisms.
Nine Von Ryan’s Leapers join a Neurolictor and a Lictor to form the Insidious Infiltrators, who specialise in rapidly closing the distance and shredding their prey with razor-sharp talons. You even get all the datasheets as card attachments to the issue.
i find it really interesting that they're inventing new combat patrols outside of the regular box sets. i guess that's going to make the format feel more like a distinct format, and not just "the format that you play after you bought your first box so that you can learn how to play." if they keep this up, it might end up as a neat alternative to kill team in the "40k but smaller" category
Its a shame that they don't just release them as box sets though. 9 leapers + a lictor + a neurolictor at a discount price would be an insta-buy for me.
chaos0xomega wrote: Its a shame that they don't just release them as box sets though. 9 leapers + a lictor + a neurolictor at a discount price would be an insta-buy for me.
VRLs are <50% of retail on ebay already. An official boxed set just wouldn't be worthwhile to make.
Leapers are the second issue of the new Hachette magazine so will be 3 for £6.99 so should be very cheap to get once the magazine launches (as you are in US will be a little longer unless you can get copies posted).
It's mostly expected changes, but feels very reactionary in terms of hammering nails that stand out and not a lot of thought put into cleaning up some of the mess they made with the September updates.
Seems like par for the course: React to whatever the past few GTs, not really address anything but appease the competitive players for another few months, rinse and repeat.
LunarSol wrote: It's mostly expected changes, but feels very reactionary in terms of hammering nails that stand out and not a lot of thought put into cleaning up some of the mess they made with the September updates.
Yeah it's good to see Custodes got their faction ability back.
Most of why I saw earlier looked pretty reasonable. Accursed Cultists doing the revive in one Command phase instead of two was expected. Wraithguard being forced to fire at the person who shot them instead of an unrelated target is also a nice fix.
I don't play dark eldar, but the addition of a new detachment via index is awesome. This is something they need to do more of immediately. Otherwise as expected
Deathsbroud are used much more than blightlord as they are just much better value, so GW decided to make deathshroud cheaper.
Also the ONLY battleline troops have been made more expensive.
This on an army that at present is 50% so considered well balanced, If they are increased, surely to 'balance internally' other troops less taken should be reduced otherwise it doesn't add balance but skews it.
PBC going up was expected, but again, I don't think they are necessarily OP, but others vehicles are not good enough
Wayniac wrote: Seems like par for the course: React to whatever the past few GTs, not really address anything but appease the competitive players for another few months, rinse and repeat.
Well. Archons with Incubi and a whole new detachment seem a bit more than 'par for the course'
As does preemptively (before the DA release) clarifying enhancements and multi-model character units. Though the incoherent gibbering about the new DA book not being 'official' so they aren't doing (showing) the points yet is just stupid. Especially since they adjusted points for a unit that won't even exist anymore, and another that's radically different in size and purpose.
I do like the formatting changes, though. That's a lot more clear.
Oh, man. I REALLY like that Dark Eldar index update. The skysplinter assault detachment is pretty much exactly how I remember running my Dark Eldar in the days of old.
Archons with Incubi bodyguards? Assaulting out of a transport? Sustained hits 2 on kabalite warriors that disembark from a transport? How about Lance on all of your charging units that jumped out of their ride and ignores cover on the ranged units that disembarked? Phantasmal Smoke giving out cover and stealth is sweet, Sadistic Fulcrum empowering transports within 3” is neato. Nightmare Shroud shutting down overwatch when a unit disembarks from a transport seems like an auto-include if you’re running an Archon with an Incubi bodyguard.
Yeah, I love all of these things. I hope they stay in for the codex (baseless conjecture, I kinda figure this was one they wrote for the codex and released to try and do damage control for Dark Eldar).
Disclaimer, of course: I don’t really play competitively, so I’m not sure how or if these things will be effective in the tournament scene, but it certainly made the decision of what army to play in my FLGS upcoming Crusade league pretty easy!
Credit where credit is due, the updates to the app fix almost every issue I had with it. You can now favorite things in the reference list and the list builder can now provide a compiled list of the rules filtered down to what you actually selected. Easily the best way to play now, IMO.
disappointed with the changes (lack thereof) to genestealers, but the custodes change are very much appreciated. the points drops are nice, too
excited to see how Drukhari do going forward, now that they have a real detachment
side note, but i'm really curious how WE are going to go now. the 1975 list was pretty infamous, but i wonder if there's a new solution to the army that people are going to find, if if there's going to be more variety now
Really good to see the Tyranids points adjustment! The Screamer Killer and Tyrannofex really will benefit from that! They are good units but were simply overpriced. Plus for someone that love playing Genestealers (and broodlord), I'm glad that they dropped a bit too!
Skywave wrote: Really good to see the Tyranids points adjustment! The Screamer Killer and Tyrannofex really will benefit from that! They are good units but were simply overpriced. Plus for someone that love playing Genestealers (and broodlord), I'm glad that they dropped a bit too!
I just wrote a list with a bunch of models I used to run in 5th/6th edition lists and it's almost 300pts cheaper than before. Basically a free Norn!
I think its an example of how 40k's rules tend towards extremes - but handing out a notionally simultaneous +1 to wound (from Lance) and +1 AP (from power from pain) feels like a massive swing.
I mean Incubi and Archon feels kind of silly - reroll all hits, all wounds, get +1 to wound and have AP-3 on 2 damage attacks. But tbh I'm not even sure you need the Archon. Its doubling the cost - you'd probably be better with another unit of 5 Incubi.
But even things like Wyches, which I think have been horribly pillowfisted - start to look kind of scary for the points.
There is admittedly the question of how many pain tokens you can really use in a turn - which probably speaks against a bazillion units all charging at once. But Index Dark Lance would seem to have found some significant melee teeth.
The main issue is definitely Necron/Admech codex immunity, though for wildly separate reasons. Unfortunately that looks like it may result in a repeat of 9ths codex honeymoon problem unless they’ve got plans to address it.
Being negative about it doesn’t really accomplish anything. It’s no worse than September at least.
chaos0xomega wrote: Weird to see the general positivity here when it seems Facebook is up in arms over the perceived inadequacy of the update
If you think Facecbook is bad, don't go looking at the comments on Twitter in response to the WarCom tweet about the updates.
Definitely some salty AdMech players out there - I don't know how bad things are with that book, but no matter how bad a book is perceived to be, some of what was said was miles out of line.
LunarSol wrote: The main issue is definitely Necron/Admech codex immunity, though for wildly separate reasons. Unfortunately that looks like it may result in a repeat of 9ths codex honeymoon problem unless they’ve got plans to address it.
Being negative about it doesn’t really accomplish anything. It’s no worse than September at least.
Indeed. AdMech also don't seem as bad as I expected from a raw win rate POV. From Meta Monday's data they're at least doing better than guard who got nothing. Doesn't seem like a very fun codex to play though.
The reason for no changes to AdMech or Necrons is pretty clear. They received MFM points in December and then it would take another week or two before lists from those codexes would filter through to events. Then in January GW will have had a cut-off point for any game data before they started making decisions on changes, got those changes wrote up, formatted, and translated. Throw in the xmas holidays in-between and you barely have 2-3 weeks of viable game data for those two codexes to find issues and decide on changes.
While it's easy to say "Necrons need a nerf" or "AdMech need a buff", it's much harder to say what specific nerfs or buffs it would take on so little data. It's probably better to delay than make knee-jerk changes that need to be reverted in April.
xttz wrote: Indeed. AdMech also don't seem as bad as I expected from a raw win rate POV. From Meta Monday's data they're at least doing better than guard who got nothing. Doesn't seem like a very fun codex to play though.
I think Ad Mech salt is partly a feeling that "this is it."
Hence as you see online. Index drops-> wait for points. Points drop->wait for codex. Codex drops->waits for points again. Points drop, wait for... the next round of points/rules updates?
Its not impossible - but its unlikely they are going to get a major re-write so soon after the codex. They could be waiting till 11th.
I mean I could summon the DE mafia to go full salt. Power alone doesn't make the army intrinsically more interesting. But it is still "something" rather than nothing. I can have hope a codex will bring more even if its inevitably the first step on the road to disappointment.
With that said, I think there's an Ad Mech build focusing on either Skitarii or Rad Corps. But it requires you to own a rather specific set of very expensive models. If you have a grab-bag of units it doesn't feel good at all. (Especially when that grab-bag keeps getting cheaper, so you need more and more models to hit say 2k points.) Data-Psalm Conclave or Cohort Cybernetica feel like RP tier. I'm sure someone thought this was a fun fluffy idea, but mechanically it just doesn't cut it.
And even with the functional lists we are talking "scraping into okay", not Eldar Tier.
I was inspired by the Rogue Trader PC game and started up a DE army by buying a discounted Boarding Patrol box and a Combat Patrol last week. Somewhat excited to get started in 10th with this army.
I was inspired by the Rogue Trader PC game and started up a DE army by buying a discounted Boarding Patrol box and a Combat Patrol last week. Somewhat excited to get started in 10th with this army.
Yeah, I can't wait to try out the new detachment. I tend to put my whole army into Raiders anyways, so a transport-heavy detachment looks like fun.
Few fun things me and my friends figured out from the update/clarifications
Trajann's, or any similar, ability lets him and his unit ignore enemy units ability to reduce Damage. I havent personally came across/played against Trajann so not sure if it was always played this way.
3 Rendmasters on Bloodthrones can stack their Blood Throne ability on an enemy unit giving any Khorne Deamons potentially an additional +3S, -3AP, and +3D.
Each unit of Scarab Swarms in melee reduces the OC by 1 to minimum of 1
All I really wanted for Ad Mech was to get something that works in No Mans Land. Or get the option for 20 man Skitarii units. 10 mans just feel bad. I think part of the issue was that Necron at least got an FAQ and Ad Mech didnt even get that for anything. Was also hoping Deathwatch Veterans got in on the Battleline point reduction and was sad they did not.
Yeah, a handler isn't necessarily going to be able to "keep up" with Hounds, in fact a handlers task is generally to keep the Hounds in check and stop them from running away. The implication to me seems more likely to be the mounted character - mind you the mounted character could still be a handler.
Weird that they say "You also get to pick from two heads – helmeted and unhelmeted" for the captain when its two unhelmeted heads. one with muzzle, one with bionics.
Weird that they say "You also get to pick from two heads – helmeted and unhelmeted" for the captain when its two unhelmeted heads. one with muzzle, one with bionics.
Hmm, yeah. I hope that's just slip up. The original reveal didn't specify the number of heads. Hopefully there's also a helmeted head in addition to the rebreather and bare option.
GW wrote:There’s also head options, and he has the choice of whether to wear a tabard to battle or not.
Even before the battle begins, Trail Shapers can pull a fast one over their opponents by launching a Kroot Ambush. They, the unit they join, and a whole other Kroot unit melt into the background and reappear where they’re least expected – taking advantage of the Scouts 7” rule shared by almost all Kroot to pressure vulnerable troops away from their objectives.
Breach loading kroot rifles is in the same category as MkX power armour helmets being in about three pieces, or Sabbat pattern helmets having hinged visors.
Voss wrote: I do genuinely like the model, but a breach-loading rifle that is also used as a bladed quarterstaff is a bit... mad. Non-functionally mad.
A good solid whack and you've got unspent low yield plasma charges (or whatever technobabble it fires) in your face.
Idk, with how the blades are oriented hits would force the action shut, so at least there's that. IRL there have been bayonets mounted on break action shotguns. No idea on how they worked out though .
Voss wrote: I do genuinely like the model, but a breach-loading rifle that is also used as a bladed quarterstaff is a bit... mad. Non-functionally mad.
A good solid whack and you've got unspent low yield plasma charges (or whatever technobabble it fires) in your face.
Idk, with how the blades are oriented hits would force the action shut, so at least there's that. IRL there have been bayonets mounted on break action shotguns. No idea on how they worked out though .
Yeah, the Kroot seem to - in all the art I've seen, anyway - use their guns as axes more than quarterstaffs, just chopping with the blades rather than any fancy twirly-work.
You're discussing whether the weapons wielded by parrot-faced aliens who eat other creatures to absorb their DNA are unrealistic? I think you guys are taking this all a bit too seriously...
HH:
- questoris mechanicum chassis moving to plastic - dual system
- knight upgrade kits moving to plastic
- mechanicum is on the way
- the conveyor transport is one of the first kits
- speculates this will allow some use in 40k maybe
- speculates this might enable dark mech in either setting
40k:
- summer release of agents of the imperium
- speculates deathwatch might get rolled in
- New coteaz
- 3 box sets, one for each branch of inquisitor
Let's hope the mystery codex is in fact Agents of the Imperium and gets a solid model release for Inquisition. It's overdue.
If we got a retinue plus Inquisitor (not sure how to read the point about three box sets, but let's go with the most optimistic interpretation), we'd finally exceed the stock miniature variety for Inquisition that peaked in 3rd ed. Which would be nice to see.
HH:
- questoris mechanicum chassis moving to plastic - dual system
- knight upgrade kits moving to plastic
- mechanicum is on the way
- the conveyor transport is one of the first kits
- speculates this will allow some use in 40k maybe
- speculates this might enable dark mech in either setting
Valrak doesn't know his HH stuff very well, but he was on the money with the SA releases. So I'm inclined to believe that the Mechanicum is coming to HH. The Triaoros is probably once of the best looking FW models out there (IMO), and will be very welcome in plastic. Not sure if that signals anything for WH40k, as GW has drawn a clear line between the 2 games.
40k:
- summer release of agents of the imperium
- speculates deathwatch might get rolled in
As they should be from the start (alongside SOS and Custodes, maybe next edition they will be rolled too).
This is an interesting rumour. Deathwatch rolled in does make sense. Hopefully, they are smart and include a datasheet in the codex for standard grey knight terminators, and standard sisters of battle squads, maybe with arco-flagellants and maybe repentia, so the Champer militants can be represented, but not impact on them operating in their own right.
Agents of the Imperium really should be a 'dogs of war' codex with a sprinkling of everything.
Wide wishlisting net is being cast here, but it would be great if these were updated as well as specific inquisitorial storm troopers:
Lord Damocles wrote: Gee willikers! I can't wait for my deathwatch to get totally buggered again!
Same. I will never understand the dislike for Deathwatch as an independent faction. The main other targets I can understand, like Knights and Custodes because they're a stat check, but Deathwatch has never hurt anyone besides Deathwatch players. Then again, it's not like Deathwatch is exactly friendly with the DesignTeam's Philosophy. I could see them sticking them in Agents with the rest of the Rejects.
Lord Damocles wrote: Gee willikers! I can't wait for my deathwatch to get totally buggered again!
Same. I will never understand the dislike for Deathwatch as an independent faction. The main other targets I can understand, like Knights and Custodes because they're a stat check, but Deathwatch has never hurt anyone besides Deathwatch players. Then again, it's not like Deathwatch is exactly friendly with the DesignTeam's Philosophy. I could see them sticking them in Agents with the rest of the Rejects.
Speaking for myself on why I dislike this iteration of Deathwatch?
Because they went from being an independent, unique group akin to the Grey Knights to suddenly becoming "Codex Marines +1". The idea of "Kill Teams" as unique formations to instead being grab-bags of special rules based on a random add of a singular type of model in a single squad was daft. It's just bad now.
I do feel bad for the people who got into it for the "OG" version of the codex, where you could take individual Vanguard Veterans or bikers, with the Veteran Squads as your Troop choice though. That was a good setup.
Yeah, I have nothing against a Deathwatch faction - incidentally, the rumors could make them historically operate more lore-friendly i.e. still being able to be deployed en masse, but also as part of a true Ordo Xenos task force.
I think they massively lost something when they went from being individual kill teams, with a captain or librarian embedded in, with cool rules used as allies, and fairly rare. The Third war for Armageddon, one of the potentially most catastrophic Xenos invasions in recent times with dramatic consequences for the Imperium if it fell, with the most dangerous Ork leader present had a grand total of two kill teams operating. They were special forces Space Marines, they were rare and spread thin, completing extremely niche objectives and it would be a disaster if a team was lost... That number of teams now is considered less than a 500pt army.
I say the same about Grey Knights though... Grey Knights were way way way more cool when they were rarer and more mysterious..... When a single squad of Terminators could and would make the difference in a warzone. You could count on one hand how many times they were deployed en masse in the lore, one of those instances being the first war for armageddon.
Same for Custodes, Sisters of Silence etc etc.
I don't want any faction to be squatted for the player's sake, I do regret them becoming full-fledged armies though personally. It was not needed.
Anyway, an ordo xenos force with an attached kill team is what I want, hopefully this will come to fruition.
HH:
- questoris mechanicum chassis moving to plastic - dual system
- knight upgrade kits moving to plastic
- mechanicum is on the way
- the conveyor transport is one of the first kits
- speculates this will allow some use in 40k maybe
- speculates this might enable dark mech in either setting
Valrak doesn't know his HH stuff very well, but he was on the money with the SA releases. So I'm inclined to believe that the Mechanicum is coming to HH. The Triaoros is probably once of the best looking FW models out there (IMO), and will be very welcome in plastic. Not sure if that signals anything for WH40k, as GW has drawn a clear line between the 2 games.
Seems too soon though? I'd expect to be waiting like, at least a year with SA coming out this year, unless GW is massively increasing its throughput of heresy kits, I just can't see them launching *two* factions in plastic in one year.
Lord Damocles wrote: Gee willikers! I can't wait for my deathwatch to get totally buggered again!
Same. I will never understand the dislike for Deathwatch as an independent faction. The main other targets I can understand, like Knights and Custodes because they're a stat check, but Deathwatch has never hurt anyone besides Deathwatch players. Then again, it's not like Deathwatch is exactly friendly with the DesignTeam's Philosophy. I could see them sticking them in Agents with the rest of the Rejects.
Speaking for myself on why I dislike this iteration of Deathwatch?
Because they went from being an independent, unique group akin to the Grey Knights to suddenly becoming "Codex Marines +1". The idea of "Kill Teams" as unique formations to instead being grab-bags of special rules based on a random add of a singular type of model in a single squad was daft. It's just bad now.
I do feel bad for the people who got into it for the "OG" version of the codex, where you could take individual Vanguard Veterans or bikers, with the Veteran Squads as your Troop choice though. That was a good setup.
Maybe Deathwatch should be reworked into "movie marines"? lol
endlesswaltz123 wrote: Yeah, I have nothing against a Deathwatch faction - incidentally, the rumors could make them historically operate more lore-friendly i.e. still being able to be deployed en masse, but also as part of a true Ordo Xenos task force.
I think they massively lost something when they went from being individual kill teams, with a captain or librarian embedded in, with cool rules used as allies, and fairly rare. The Third war for Armageddon, one of the potentially most catastrophic Xenos invasions in recent times with dramatic consequences for the Imperium if it fell, with the most dangerous Ork leader present had a grand total of two kill teams operating. They were special forces Space Marines, they were rare and spread thin, completing extremely niche objectives and it would be a disaster if a team was lost... That number of teams now is considered less than a 500pt army.
I say the same about Grey Knights though... Grey Knights were way way way more cool when they were rarer and more mysterious..... When a single squad of Terminators could and would make the difference in a warzone. You could count on one hand how many times they were deployed en masse in the lore, one of those instances being the first war for armageddon.
Same for Custodes, Sisters of Silence etc etc.
I don't want any faction to be squatted for the player's sake, I do regret them becoming full-fledged armies though personally. It was not needed.
Anyway, an ordo xenos force with an attached kill team is what I want, hopefully this will come to fruition.
That's true of every marine really. One captain is going to wipe the battlefield in most narratives.
Also in fairness, 2 old school kill teams with a captain in one and librarian in the other is currently 865 points, though mostly because they're wildly overcosted.
I personally, have wanted Deathwatch to be part of an Ordo Xenos army, or specifically the Inquisition developed into an army since 8th. There's really exciting potential here, though historical precidence tells me I'd better brace for the worst. I actually quite like the 10th edition design on the whole, but nerfing it into obvion has left a pretty hollow shell where its best to cut out all the Deathwatch parts. I'd be upset, but that's been the case since the army launched in 7th.
Deathwatch were fine until Primaris nonsense. Then they couldn’t figure out how to make teams useful and feel right, but still had to force numarines on you.
Literally at the stage where creating your own games/units/narratives is just miles better than the forced junk GW keeps putting out.
Already over new Dark Angels, and now expect New Deathwatch will just bring more salt. Think I need to stick with 9th and let 10th just wash over.
Nice of GW to throw a little direct support at Inq28!
Personally I'm waiting for the seemingly inevitable release of Inquisitor 2nd Edition. Hopefully this time they go with 28mm by default instead of trying to push a 54mm model range on us.
I do miss the original Daemon Hunters codex, and think they should have stuck with that design direction which IIRC they did for Witchhunters, but had gone away from the Inq element with the release of Grey Knights before a codex Alien Hunters ever appeared.
Sticking to that design philosophy might have also saved us from the baby carrier.
bullyboy wrote: Deathwatch were fine until Primaris nonsense. Then they couldn’t figure out how to make teams useful and feel right, but still had to force numarines on you.
Literally at the stage where creating your own games/units/narratives is just miles better than the forced junk GW keeps putting out.
Already over new Dark Angels, and now expect New Deathwatch will just bring more salt. Think I need to stick with 9th and let 10th just wash over.
Ah, what a handful of months that was
Honestly, they weren't fine even then. They were pretty much limited to finding the one marine that was most efficient and taking as many of them as physically possible with the whole army needing to be redone every time GW changed a point on wargear. They were miserable in 7th. 8th had the whole stupid, "you can't have these new toys" trend where they couldn't take Primaris, then could take some Primaris but then not Phobos. 9th was pretty good in theory but Fortis was always just kind of incoherent. In all incarnations SIA has been wildly inconsistent.
The only actual constant for Deathwatch is that GW does something neat with them, but the instant they are remotely viable panics and breaks the faction with no attempts to fix it later. Being left with stuff that used to work is pretty much the norm.
Imperial Agents codex would be really cool, but could be done easily now by just allowing more allies. Agree on GK, DW, Custodes being out of wack with the lore; but as pointed out, so are marines. Every battle is a huge battle! You kinda have to separate non-narrative games form the lore a bit sometimes anyway. Incidentally, in 1st ed, 5 grey knight terminators (the only kind of grey knights) were 1200 points
Codex Imperial Agents could keep its current character by having “formation” rules that allow allies and also having alternate formations that are more exclusive and also have stratagems that match.
Reall though I just want Arbites to have independent Judges again, including a plastic Throne of Judgement kit. Karamazov’s one was always billed as a “modified” one for his purposes, which I assume means the triple-barrel melta weapon which is pretty much unique. So a regular unmodified one for Judicial Duty would have, what, a giant web cannon, or maybe a shotgun array, hurricane bolter style?
40k:
- summer release of agents of the imperium
- speculates deathwatch might get rolled in
- New coteaz
- 3 box sets, one for each branch of inquisitor
Reiterates about previous boxes
would definitely be interested in this. i'm still hoping for a plastic generic inquisitor kit, but rolling deathwatch in would go a long way towards making Agents work as its own army
would the box sets have all new models, i wonder? or would they be one or two new kits each, and then repurposed old kits for thematic purpose. y'know, throw in some of the KT inquisitor stuff, or some arbites, or some DW veterans and an upgrade sprue... depending how GW go about this it could be really cool, or it could be just whatever, but either way it'll be at least a little bit interesting
With Marine pre-orders up I went to check if the sprue picture might clear up the Terminator Captain head situation. Turns out, there is no sprue picture. So that was a dud.
Is this a new thing GW is going to keep failing at? I know they haven't managed to put 360 views up on time for a while now, but on the few occasions I checked their new releases (when the queue didn't get in the way at least) on release day, I didn't notice any absence of sprue pictures. I didn't think that was going to be an issue, but here we are.
For the record, Burninators are the same while the Dreadnought and Apothecary and friends have a sprue picture on their respective pages.
If they do imperial agents, and perhaps include death watch, they should remake a decent "city fight" campaing book with loads of situational strategems and scenarios.
Fayric wrote: If they do imperial agents, and perhaps include death watch, they should remake a decent "city fight" campaing book with loads of situational strategems and scenarios.
Maybe do another run of the Sector Imperialis at the same time?
StudentOfEtherium wrote: would the box sets have all new models, i wonder? or would they be one or two new kits each, and then repurposed old kits for thematic purpose. y'know, throw in some of the KT inquisitor stuff, or some arbites, or some DW veterans and an upgrade sprue... depending how GW go about this it could be really cool, or it could be just whatever, but either way it'll be at least a little bit interesting
My guess is they'll be 'army sets' of old models with one new one thrown in, so a Xenos inquisitor with a bunch of Deathwatch, a Hereticus inquisitor with some Sisters and a Malleus inquisitor with some Grey Knights. It's becomes something of pattern for new characters of late.
StudentOfEtherium wrote: would the box sets have all new models, i wonder? or would they be one or two new kits each, and then repurposed old kits for thematic purpose. y'know, throw in some of the KT inquisitor stuff, or some arbites, or some DW veterans and an upgrade sprue... depending how GW go about this it could be really cool, or it could be just whatever, but either way it'll be at least a little bit interesting
My guess is they'll be 'army sets' of old models with one new one thrown in, so a Xenos inquisitor with a bunch of Deathwatch, a Hereticus inquisitor with some Sisters and a Malleus inquisitor with some Grey Knights. It's becomes something of pattern for new characters of late.
i wouldn't be opposed to this, actually. i assume that agents are going to stay an allies faction, so this would be more for players of the other factions... as a big agents fan, i'd like an option to use the models in those boxes for the army itself, but maybe they're going to add a reverse souping rule, like letting us take a number of units from other imperial armies
oh huh, DA already up for preorder. i has assumed, when they got their points updates in the last MFM, that their book would be a ways off since it's rebalancing some stuff not in the book, but i guess not
Have those inner circle models come out previously in a ltd box set?
If so, does anyone know if you can build them without all that gakky plastic smoke? It seems to be all over these new DAs.
oh huh, DA already up for preorder. i has assumed, when they got their points updates in the last MFM, that their book would be a ways off since it's rebalancing some stuff not in the book, but i guess not
The points updates in the MFM are for the INDEX version of the units. Note that in the MFM, Deathwing Knights can still be taken in 10 man units, and the Ravenwing Command Squad is still 3-6 models. I'm pretty sure we'll get a dataslate update similar to what we got for Necrons and AdMech when the book actually drops, and that's where we'll have the final points costs of the Codex version of the units, including the new Inner Circle Companions.
oh huh, DA already up for preorder. i has assumed, when they got their points updates in the last MFM, that their book would be a ways off since it's rebalancing some stuff not in the book, but i guess not
The points updates in the MFM are for the INDEX version of the units. Note that in the MFM, Deathwing Knights can still be taken in 10 man units, and the Ravenwing Command Squad is still 3-6 models. I'm pretty sure we'll get a dataslate update similar to what we got for Necrons and AdMech when the book actually drops, and that's where we'll have the final points costs of the Codex version of the units, including the new Inner Circle Companions.
yeah yeah, it makes sense, but if the codex was going to drop this close to the MFM, i would've expected them to leave the index points alone, rather than change something which won't matter in just a few weeks
I suspect that gws production difficulties have caused them to alter their release schedule and they are trying to fill time with low hanging fruit that they can get out the door easily without further stock issues while they try to unfuck themselves.
chaos0xomega wrote: I suspect that gws production difficulties have caused them to alter their release schedule and they are trying to fill time with low hanging fruit that they can get out the door easily without further stock issues while they try to unfuck themselves.
Eh, I don't think so. They usually don't wait terribly long between release of an army set and the full release (Flesh-Eater Courts in AoS didn't go terribly long between either, like a month or so IIRC), as they know the players will be eager for their stuff to be "official" for events and stuff.
oh huh, DA already up for preorder. i has assumed, when they got their points updates in the last MFM, that their book would be a ways off since it's rebalancing some stuff not in the book, but i guess not
The miniatures are beautiful, there's no denying it. But I'm having a bit of trouble with the assembly, it's all mono pose with no options, which is really sad.
Gimgamgoo wrote: Have those inner circle models come out previously in a ltd box set?
If so, does anyone know if you can build them without all that gakky plastic smoke? It seems to be all over these new DAs.
The Inner Circle Companions are released for the first time. Earliest we'll know is Saturday when reviews come out. At a guess they might have some build options so you don't have to use the bits with smoke effect, but I'm not sure GW doubled up on the same bits so you can pick whether you want smoke or not. Which is something they actually did for Asmodai:
GW wrote:He even has a few kit options. He has a choice of heads – hooded and with a halo, and two backpacks – one pouring out clouds of enigmatic smoke.
Spoiler:
I'd consider it uncharacteristic and would assume you just have to live with the smoke effect on other models, and that Asmodai is a rare case of realization just how much they overdid it and that it might turn people off if they don't provide a clean backpack.
chaos0xomega wrote: I suspect that gws production difficulties have caused them to alter their release schedule and they are trying to fill time with low hanging fruit that they can get out the door easily without further stock issues while they try to unfuck themselves.
Eh, I don't think so. They usually don't wait terribly long between release of an army set and the full release (Flesh-Eater Courts in AoS didn't go terribly long between either, like a month or so IIRC), as they know the players will be eager for their stuff to be "official" for events and stuff.
The FEC army set was mid December so it was a couple of months for those.
The release from army box window has shortened since they first started doing the army boxes.
The wait for the Ork, BT, Votann and Guard were a lot longer than 4 weeks, which is what it has been since the Deathwing assault box went up to preorder.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: The release from army box window has shortened since they first started doing the army boxes.
The wait for the Ork, BT, Votann and Guard were a lot longer than 4 weeks, which is what it has been since the Deathwing assault box went up to preorder.
The wait for basically everything was a lot longer than the two 40k centric ones have been. For example, Cities of Sigmar players are still waiting for the Wildercorps and Ogors are waiting for the Gorgers out of Hunter and Hunted...while Salvation(which released later) has seen its individual unit boxes come out.
The DA release was odd. The code in the back of the codex that came with the boxset cannot be uploaded into the app. I was informed it will not be available until the wide release of the codex.
I also expect (hope)a points adjustment upon release.
Sarigar wrote: The DA release was odd. The code in the back of the codex that came with the boxset cannot be uploaded into the app. I was informed it will not be available until the wide release of the codex.
Sarigar wrote: The DA release was odd. The code in the back of the codex that came with the boxset cannot be uploaded into the app. I was informed it will not be available until the wide release of the codex.
I also expect (hope)a points adjustment upon release.
Yeah that's standard practice for a limited edition codex. Officially the previous version of the rules are used until it's on general sale and everyone can buy it*.
GW also confirmed that there will be a new MFM soon which covers the new companions, it's not clear if the points for anything else will change though. So far as DWK etc are concerned it's entirely possible the last point updates for those will also be the new ones.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: The release from army box window has shortened since they first started doing the army boxes.
The wait for the Ork, BT, Votann and Guard were a lot longer than 4 weeks, which is what it has been since the Deathwing assault box went up to preorder.
The wait for basically everything was a lot longer than the two 40k centric ones have been. For example, Cities of Sigmar players are still waiting for the Wildercorps and Ogors are waiting for the Gorgers out of Hunter and Hunted...while Salvation(which released later) has seen its individual unit boxes come out.
Army boxes is what I was specifically referring to. The release window after Kill Team and Warcry boxes is all over the place. Not discounting what you say though, it seems GW are shunting things forwards and backwards based on demand.... If you can claw back all the R&D and make a substantial profit on a kit quickly (Scouts and Striking Scorpions) before the financial year closes (start of April in the UK) they are going to do that just to inflate the numbers if anything. Whereas other kits may be more of a slow burn.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: If you can claw back all the R&D and make a substantial profit on a kit quickly (Scouts and Striking Scorpions) before the financial year closes (start of April in the UK) they are going to do that just to inflate the numbers if anything. Whereas other kits may be more of a slow burn.
GW's fiscal year begins in June, which is why they like to do major releases that month to kickstart the annual sales figures. April is the UK tax year, which has nothing to do with sales reporting.
The main influence on the pace of releases is going to be the fact they plan to have 5 codexes out in Spring. Despite any logistics issues 40k is still the main gravytrain for GW and is going to be the first priority to meet any deadlines where possible, so I expect we'll see something like this:
Early March: DA Late March: Kroot box
Early-mid April: Orks & Custodes together
Late April / Early May: Main Tau release
Late May: CSM
xttz wrote: Early March: DA Late March: Kroot box
Early-mid April: Orks & Custodes together
Late April / Early May: Main Tau release
Late May: CSM
I was thinking pretty much this.
I feel for the Orks and Custodes players. Get ready for a single character release for 10th Edition
Custodes are also fairly new as a faction still. They may get their update if HH updates the FW based units in plastic.
yeah, custodes are fine right now, with a huge asterisk at the bottom labeled "forge world". if we get our dreads and other guard/terminator options in plastic, then the range is pretty much perfect... but with this release being crammed between a whole bunch of other releases, i don't have high expectations
tho, if we're getting a melta spear captain, maybe that's a good sign that we're getting a melta spear upgrade sprue for guard. would really appreciate that
I'm not saying you're wrong about that. On the other hand, Kroot are now lined up to receive 4 character, 3 infantry, and 2 larger than infantry kits. Dark Angels has 2 characters, 2 units, and an upgrade pack coming out. GW could have shared the love a little more evenly over 4 factions (assuming Orks and Custodies only get 1 character kit each).
Still, they could surprise us. Necrons got a couple of new kits along with characters finally released separately from all the way back in Indomitus.
this article has sprue pictures. each sprue is for a specific one of the bladeguard, and as such, it's pretty easy to see that each of them comes with two backpack pieces. one with smoke, and one without. so for those who were worried about that, rest easy!
Sarigar wrote: The DA release was odd. The code in the back of the codex that came with the boxset cannot be uploaded into the app. I was informed it will not be available until the wide release of the codex.
I also expect (hope)a points adjustment upon release.
Yeah that's standard practice for a limited edition codex. Officially the previous version of the rules are used until it's on general sale and everyone can buy it*.
GW also confirmed that there will be a new MFM soon which covers the new companions, it's not clear if the points for anything else will change though. So far as DWK etc are concerned it's entirely possible the last point updates for those will also be the new ones.
*in theory lmao
I had no idea this was the standard. The app last edition was terrible and I never noticed and didnt buy any of those boxsets. Can't remember if this edition had a prerelease ahead of the codex release.
They are 3 to a box, and each model has 2 pose options, for 6 possible poses. They also have the option to be with or without the smoke, which is nice.
What's that about Warp Spiders? The current models are still good for another twenty, thirty years. Can't see them getting an update this early.
Vargheist wrote: Seriously, Grey Knights still using baby scale marines is embarassing. They aleardy got one token release, it's hight time they get full refresh.
It's especially silly considering Grey Knights only have two infantry boxes. That might no longer hold up if they get embiggened, but you'd think GW wouldn't think twice about releasing four or so boxes of Marines.
I really hope that's not true, that would be a massive downgrade. MDF is not easy to work with in comparison to plastic, not to mention the vast gulf in detail.
I guess it would show that GW are not making enough profit on their plastic terrain
I'm gonna stick my neck out and say it's not gonna happen.
There's a gap for prepainted mdf in the UK market at least, they could go that way and it'd fulfill the premium product definition and they can ram lots into their current form factor boxes unlike sprues, so I can see the advantage/intent there.
Besides all you lovely ITC players keep buying and using it at events they attend so they'll get the idea it's what people want.
Matrindur wrote: Terrain:
Lots of salt here but apparently GW wants to do MDF terrain (I can't see any reality where its priced competitively)
i don't really see why GW would want to get into MDF when its main selling point is being cheap and easy to put on the board. GW have always been a hobby company over a game company, so selling unpainted terrain plays to that. selling terrain that doesn't need painting, on the other hand, doesn't
Matrindur wrote: Grey Knights:
Getting a vehicle - heard it could be an upgraded baby carrier (please no)
controversially, i actually really like the dreadknight. it's definitely the best model in the GK range, and without the memes, i would've never seen it that way. maybe i just have a weakness for mechs with open cockpits (the phobos dreadnought rules and i love Paragon Warsuits so much that i based my Lancer mech on them), but getting another model in that style for the range would be really cool imo
Matrindur wrote: Aeldari:
Asurman, Baharroth, Fuegan, new Warp Spiders lord
Swooping Hawks, Fire Dragons, Warp Spiders
i'm not sure how reasonable this is , but this feels like valrak repeating a previous rumor from a few months back. maybe that makes it more believable, but three kits and four characters feels like a lot. certainly not out of the question, but that would feel like a huge release, and GW can only do so many of those in a year, and there are only so many years in an edition, so i'm not sure where their priority may lay
GK should get at least Kroot like update so one vehicle would be a joke.
More updates for Eldar Aspects is a no brainer. It will happen sooner or later.
MDF terrain? Why would they do this when they can sell expensive plastic?
Could be GK getting a new upsized dreadnought kit. Curved plating that resembles the dreadknight would tie the range together more. Dreadknight is melee focused, so a GK focused version of the Ballistus Dread would fill out a heavy fire support role they could use.
The aeldari rumors are completely non-credible. They just released plastic Striking Scorpions, but have yet to update Karandras, even though every other aspect warrior update to date (shining spears notwithstanding as they do not (currently) have a phoenix lord) has either come with or been closely followed by a resculpted PL. Karandras will come before Asurman, Baharroth, Fuegan, or a warp spider PL.
chaos0xomega wrote: The aeldari rumors are completely non-credible. They just released plastic Striking Scorpions, but have yet to update Karandras, even though every other aspect warrior update to date (shining spears notwithstanding as they do not (currently) have a phoenix lord) has either come with or been closely followed by a resculpted PL. Karandras will come before Asurman, Baharroth, Fuegan, or a warp spider PL.
Striking Scorpions were released as part of KT, much like the Kroot Farstalkers.
I could see Karandras coming out as part of an Aeldari codex release, assuming they get something the size of the Kroot release.
That combat patrol definitely seems like the best for starting an army out of the Space Marines ones (i guess its quite DI-esque, minus a couple of characters)
Shadow Walker wrote:
MDF terrain? Why would they do this when they can sell expensive plastic?
I don't know if you noticed, but they don't. They produce some lovely terrain, sell it for 1-2 runs and it's never seen again. Their standing stock of terrain is very limited.
Maybe GW is thinking of replacing the terrain tiles (like the zone mortalis and legions Imperialis ones) and the cardstock game boards with MDF?
The plastic tiles probably don’t sell very well, and MDF could fill the same roll as the printed cardstock game boards, but be slightly more durable?
I think if they can print directly on the MDF, then it might be useful as a replacement for the cardboard but I really think that mouse pad foam mats would be a better approach if that’s what they are going for.
Shadow Walker wrote:
MDF terrain? Why would they do this when they can sell expensive plastic?
I don't know if you noticed, but they don't. They produce some lovely terrain, sell it for 1-2 runs and it's never seen again. Their standing stock of terrain is very limited.
But they do this again and again so either it works for them or they like to suffer
Shooter wrote: That combat patrol definitely seems like the best for starting an army out of the Space Marines ones (i guess its quite DI-esque, minus a couple of characters)
Shadow Walker wrote:
MDF terrain? Why would they do this when they can sell expensive plastic?
I don't know if you noticed, but they don't. They produce some lovely terrain, sell it for 1-2 runs and it's never seen again. Their standing stock of terrain is very limited.
Because terrain sprues (and stuff like Endless Spells and sculpted bases) are made in China. They order a production run, and once it sells out, the run the numbers and check if another production run (inc. international container shipping and all that costs) is viable. Apparently not, most of the time. Which is why so many terrain disappears over time.
I consider mdf an entirely obsolete technology for terrain pursposes. But Dude has a point...
Dudeface wrote: Besides all you lovely ITC players keep buying and using it at events they attend so they'll get the idea it's what people want.
Seriously, at this point GW really should just make plastic ITC ruin corners and be done with it. They're just leaving money on the floor, as the ABS plastic ITC ruin corner Kickstarter running right now shows.
Perhaps they could do large boxes of MDF terrain for non imperial worlds.
GW apparently dont have the resources or will to do plastic designs for xenos enough to cover a table.
Me and my friends have some really nice Orc buildings in MDF, and they look exelent on the table. And I have seen some beatiuful eldar-ish MDF terrain in battlereports.
Ofcourse, you cant just spray them black and drybrush grey as most people do with plastic terrain, but with some work and weathering MDF work fine.
I mean, how many sculpted skulls and cables do you really need on a wall?
Fayric wrote: I mean, how many sculpted skulls and cables do you really need on a wall?
More and some, respectively.
Not sure what the appeal of MDF is supposed to be to GW. They're not going to make them in house, in which case they're better off sticking with Chinese plastic kits. At least those have sculpted detail and fit in better with what people expect of GW kits.
Also, wood is heavier than plastic. Doesn't that just make shipping more expensive and cut into their margins (or more likely lead to higher prices)? It's not like GW is going to offer MDF at competitive prices if they don't do that with plastic.
Dudeface wrote: There's a gap for prepainted mdf in the UK market at least, they could go that way and it'd fulfill the premium product definition and they can ram lots into their current form factor boxes unlike sprues, so I can see the advantage/intent there.
Besides all you lovely ITC players keep buying and using it at events they attend so they'll get the idea it's what people want.
I don’t think GW will ever go down any kind of pre painted route will they?
Can’t sell the hobby stuff if they do that.
Also, what better way to sell an MDF sealant coat spray to stop wood absorbing your undercoat, for £20 a can or whatever.
Dudeface wrote: There's a gap for prepainted mdf in the UK market at least, they could go that way and it'd fulfill the premium product definition and they can ram lots into their current form factor boxes unlike sprues, so I can see the advantage/intent there.
Besides all you lovely ITC players keep buying and using it at events they attend so they'll get the idea it's what people want.
I don’t think GW will ever go down any kind of pre painted route will they?
Can’t sell the hobby stuff if they do that.
Also, what better way to sell an MDF sealant coat spray to stop wood absorbing your undercoat, for £20 a can or whatever.
Knowing GW past and their dealings with paint pots designs that deliberately did not seal, I think they would instead create a type of MDF that was extra absorbing and would soak all the paint.
GW is ramping prices up again. $60 for 3 models isn't even pretending to be reasonable, nor are $65 scouts.
A browse of the combat patrol sprues shows the old DA intercessor sprue, not the new one that came with the Deathwing Assault box (which is being sold separately at $35)
Two of the old ones doesn't even provide enough shoulder pads for everything in the box.
GW is playing poor customer experience games again.
MDF terrain makes sense to me, in the context of GW's ongoing encirclement of competitive play.
They'd be able to sell terrain sets to a significant portion of the competitive community (as well as to the aspirationally-competitive). They'd be able to move towards season-ifying it, ultimately selling a new set to mostly the same people every year. They'd be able to do it all in the name of lofty-sounding goals like "standardization" and "balance." Seems like MDF products would have fat margins for reasonably low effort, too.
I don't know if the gambit would work, and whether there would be a revolt against the unexpected tournament-tax, but I can certainly understand how GW sees an opportunity there.
The biggest disconnect is that MDF terrain doesn't have cachet, and there's no way to spin it as more premium than plastic terrain, which contradicts GW's identity as the provider of the Best Miniatures. But they rereleased antediluvian kits for contemporary use in The Old World, which is something all of us would've argued was a ridiculous and impossible outcome for the Best Miniature Company if we'd have been queried a few years ago, so it seems like they aren't that rigorous about that label anymore.
Usually, I'd consider that too far down the GW is evil conspiracy rabbit hole... Having said that, them taking on the ITC, they will surely try to get the flesh from it... Why would they want to allow organisers to still use 3D printed, cheap card pop-up terrain etc.
Going to be interesting to see if this rumour is true, and also if it has an impact on the tournament circtuit.
That would be all of the Finecast Aspects finally migrated to plastic, no? I thought we would have to wait a couple more editions for that, great if it's true!
Altruizine wrote: But they rereleased antediluvian kits for contemporary use in The Old World
Those are plastic and "classic", i.e. nostalgia driven. MDF is neither.
Anyway, in terms of ROI, customer conditioning and brand perception, GW's plastic terrain seems to be an extremely successful product line. In what world would undercutting all that be worth it for a couple thousand sales every year to the ITC?
His Master's Voice wrote: Anyway, in terms of ROI, customer conditioning and brand perception, GW's plastic terrain seems to be an extremely successful product line. In what world would undercutting all that be worth it for a couple thousand sales every year to the ITC?
Altruizine wrote: But they rereleased antediluvian kits for contemporary use in The Old World, which is something all of us would've argued was a ridiculous and impossible outcome for the Best Miniature Company if we'd have been queried a few years ago, so it seems like they aren't that rigorous about that label anymore.
Not all of us.
CorwinB wrote: That would be all of the Finecast Aspects finally migrated to plastic, no? I thought we would have to wait a couple more editions for that, great if it's true!
Isn't it also pretty much the entire list of things they can update before they have to make entirely new things or update old plastic kits like Vypers, Falcons and Dire Avengers? As slow as Eldar have been updated, the range is in a pretty solid place now.
The Falcon and its derivatives sharing the same chassis could probably use an upgrade, and they could also switch the resin Aspects and the Nightwing to plastic, but indeed after that there is not much else to update (I don't see them switching the super-heavies to plastic). Perhaps the Wraithlord could have an updated kit that could build the Wraithseer as well?
Vypers and Falcons are some of the oldest kits still in circulation. Dire Avengers are more modern, but having built some they’re showing their age, so could do with an update including more dynamic poses.
His Master's Voice wrote: Anyway, in terms of ROI, customer conditioning and brand perception, GW's plastic terrain seems to be an extremely successful product line. In what world would undercutting all that be worth it for a couple thousand sales every year to the ITC?
This is GW.
GW.
More importantly when they speak to/at the playerbase now a days its aimed at the most visible and vocal corner of their realm: the tournament scene. These are, I think, now viewed as one of their key customer demographics, if not in total profit (middle aged mums supposedly), but in relative import to the wider playerbase.
Given that the big tournaments never made an effort to use GW terrain due to practicalities, outside of GW stream tables which they might provide(? I'm unsure of that), they'll see people happily buying and using mdf corners and praising the table layouts etc.
Add to that they're often criticised for not keeping enough terrain in stock/removing new ranges regularly, then packing out tables of terrain to new players or events is very impractical for all parties.
Altruizine wrote: Seems like MDF products would have fat margins for reasonably low effort, too.
Quite the contrary, MDF terrain is actually fairly expensive to produce and the margins on it aren't all that great, and there's no real way to leverage economies of scale with it due to various limiting factors in terms of how its produced. The margins on plastic terrain are significantly greater, and if GW truly wanted to dominate the competitive terrain scene they could do so easily with plastic sets sold at more aggressively competitive rates to event organizers.
You need something like 16 pieces of terrain to play a proper game of Warhammer 40K.
Today there is basically no terrain at all availible to buy in their webshop, just a single basic kit and a bunch of faction specific special pieces.
They are basically saying no to a whole lot of money because if you want to play warhammer you are going to need terrain and if you're not building it from scratch yourself you are giving all that money to someone that isn't GW.
From a business perspective this doesn't make any sense to me at all.
Altruizine wrote: Seems like MDF products would have fat margins for reasonably low effort, too.
Quite the contrary, MDF terrain is actually fairly expensive to produce and the margins on it aren't all that great, and there's no real way to leverage economies of scale with it due to various limiting factors in terms of how its produced. The margins on plastic terrain are significantly greater, and if GW truly wanted to dominate the competitive terrain scene they could do so easily with plastic sets sold at more aggressively competitive rates to event organizers.
I mean, that ignores the whole "not produced directly by them" angle.
Maybe event organizers should use more of their own event's funding to provide the terrain, because it sure as heck doesn't seem to go towards actual judges or the like given how every event has drama tied to it.
Altruizine wrote: But they rereleased antediluvian kits for contemporary use in The Old World, which is something all of us would've argued was a ridiculous and impossible outcome for the Best Miniature Company if we'd have been queried a few years ago, so it seems like they aren't that rigorous about that label anymore.
Not all of us.
Extremely easy to claim in hindsight, but only the credulous would believe you.
Altruizine wrote: Seems like MDF products would have fat margins for reasonably low effort, too.
Quite the contrary, MDF terrain is actually fairly expensive to produce and the margins on it aren't all that great, and there's no real way to leverage economies of scale with it due to various limiting factors in terms of how its produced. The margins on plastic terrain are significantly greater
Why aren't the margins great? What are the limiting factors in terms of how its produced?
chaos0xomega wrote: if GW truly wanted to dominate the competitive terrain scene they could do so easily with plastic sets sold at more aggressively competitive rates to event organizers.
No, not really.
Plastic terrain can never be as painlessly functional as MDF terrain (unless it forsakes all of the advantageous qualities of plastic terrain in order to ape MDF terrain). Plastic terrain always requires painting and cannot be manufactured with finished surfaces out-of-the-box. Plastic terrain can't pack flat for storage and transport.
GW literally watched their ITC partners launch a tournament terrain line so it wouldn't be out of the question that that started them salivating.
for the terrain itself, the terrain the game needs changes every 3 years and GW does not want to produce that kind of terrain because as soon as it is functional for 40k, it looks bad
for mdf it is simply the time the machine needs to cut that
to produce more you need more machines and space, and most expensive parts of production is time and space
yet coloured plastic terrain that can be packed flat is not something new, and we get painted ones soon as well
His Master's Voice wrote: Yeah, I just don't see anything that MDF solves for GW that plastic wouldn't.
If they can internalise production or at least source it cheaply in the UK (evidently possible given the number of MDF terrain producers here), then they prevent reliance upon small run Chinese production and/or using their own injection machines for the terrain when they can't keep minis in stock.
As otherwise noted they don't really sell or supply much terrain and it's very obviously right under their noses that the vast bulk of their competition is MDF and they're forced to be around it constantly, so they will absolutely want a slice of that pie.
kodos wrote: for the terrain itself, the terrain the game needs changes every 3 years and GW does not want to produce that kind of terrain because as soon as it is functional for 40k, it looks bad
for mdf it is simply the time the machine needs to cut that
to produce more you need more machines and space, and most expensive parts of production is time and space
yet coloured plastic terrain that can be packed flat is not something new, and we get painted ones soon as well
Very little of what you wrote makes sense.
Tournaments are already using terrain that "looks bad" instead of using GW plastic terrain. GWMDF would look better than the MDF/foamcore that necessarily fills up a lot of current tournament tables.
To produce more plastic terrain you also need more machines and space, and the most expensive parts of producing plastic terrain are also time and space. You've written some words but not completed an argument about how MDF production would somehow be less appealing than plastic production.
Coloured plastic terrain "looks bad" unless it is painted; the colour of the plastic is irrelevant here. It also feels like you just made up an entire category of product lol. Please share links to the plastic terrain that packs up flat (not merely for the sake of this discussion, but because I might want to buy some). We're not talking about terrain sprues that are semi-flat on their way to the customer -- we're talking about terrain that *breaks down* into flat components for storage and transport, in-between use.
Most of the arguments against the potential validity of this rumour are very status quo-based, and remind me of historical arguments in the GW-space that proved out false over long enough spans of time:
15 years ago: "GW would NEVER bring the Primarchs back. The lack of hope and benevolent leaders is an essential quality of the IP. Also, they would NEVER change the aesthetics of Space Marines... Marines are their bread and butter faction!!"
10 years ago: "GW doesn't care about the tournament scene, and they never will. Competitive play is totally irrelevant to them as a company."
5 years ago: "There's no way GW would release a new game and pad out the rosters with old models. They have limited, precious production time and it would be absurd for them to run old moulds instead of new product. Besides, the old moulds are probably in disrepair or destroyed!"
Now: "GW only makes premium plastic terrain. Why would they want to make worse-looking, simplistic MDF terrain?"
Altruizine wrote: Seems like MDF products would have fat margins for reasonably low effort, too.
Quite the contrary, MDF terrain is actually fairly expensive to produce and the margins on it aren't all that great, and there's no real way to leverage economies of scale with it due to various limiting factors in terms of how its produced. The margins on plastic terrain are significantly greater
Why aren't the margins great? What are the limiting factors in terms of how its produced?
Well for one MDF isn't cheap. A building that can be produced for a dollars worth of plastic uses about $2.50-$5 worth of mdf depending on how the kit is designed. Cutting mdf is also time intensive, it will probably take let's say ~15 minutes to cut an mdf building - and they can probably cut ~4-5 such buildings simultaneously by stacking sheets on the cutter if they are using a higher end industrial cutter... or in the same time it took them to produce those 5 building kits they can probably produce around 100 plastic building kits. The plastic process can be entirely automated right through to packaging the kits in boxes, whereas the mdf kit needs to be manually handled and packaged making it additionally labor intensive to handle.
Then there's the logistical burden of acquiring, transporting, and storing very dense heavy mdf sheets and the resulting mdf products which comes at significant additional cost.
And then if you're talking about prepainted mdf terrain kits, it only gets even more expensive as that painting process is also a labor intensive one, and usually involves more complex kit designs that require even more material to produce and thus take correspondingly longer to cut and weigh more for shipping purposes.
Plastic terrain can never be as painlessly functional as MDF terrain (unless it forsakes all of the advantageous qualities of plastic terrain in order to ape MDF terrain). Plastic terrain always requires painting and cannot be manufactured with finished surfaces out-of-the-box. Plastic terrain can't pack flat for storage and transport.
Dudeface wrote: If they can internalise production or at least source it cheaply in the UK (evidently possible given the number of MDF terrain producers here), then they prevent reliance upon small run Chinese production and/or using their own injection machines for the terrain when they can't keep minis in stock.
I can't imagine them spinning up an MDF cutting facility when that space could be used to place down more plastic injection machines for significantly better ROI. And while outsourcing might be possible, and mostly eliminate the risk of delays, it would still hit the same fundamental problem that dictates the relatively small Chinese runs - warehousing.
Ignoring all that, I just don't buy the idea GW would be willing to produce something that is both inferior to their current designs AND has lower margins.
Its clearly a Votann that somehow sneaked into to rank of Shield Captain
Automatically Appended Next Post: The Custodes box is about 36% savings in € at the latest Battleforce prices (175€) which would be in line with the others but the Ork box would be about 48% if its the same price which is quite high.
It could still happen since most of the value is in the ancient kits with only the Boyz and the Big Mek being new and the Boyz aren't that valuable anyway since they are the monopose variant and are also in the CP.
But still I wouldn't be surprised if the Ork box is more expensive
that custodes box seems great for anyone trying to get into the faction... but i already have six bikes, so six more just seem like overkill. hope some people new to the army enjoy it
new shield captain is also a miss. the model is fine, but more shield captains aren't something i'm hurting for
however,
that ork box is incredibly funny and i'm glad the rumors turned out to be true. i don't play orks and i probably never will but the stompa amuses me so much so i'm glad they're doing something funny like putting it in a value box
pretty lowkey release overall, but that's what i expected. could've done with an extra upgrade sprue, tho
The Custodes guy…if they were going to give them yet another Sheild Captain, they could at least have done the first female Custodes model.
that would be pretty fun! i know sisters are there to be the female representation for the army, but they're all lithe and thing, so it would be fun to have some bulkier women to join the big boys
I do not like the new SC's face. At all. I'll either use another head from my collection or just give him his helmet. I don't know how badly I want the box though; I need Wardens and Allarus very badly, and I want the new SC even if his face is fugly, but I really don't want 6 more banana bikes unless those are suddenly going to be amazing in the new book.
Not fond of the Mek's face at all. Definitely too serious for my likes. The alt head is a little better.
The issue with the SC is just that his pauldrons nearly double the width of his body and the cape makes the whole silhouette look squatty. It's basically the same issue Stormcast had early on.
Kind of low key news for all the lead up, but curious to see how things turn out. Not itching to buy any of it personally.
LunarSol wrote: Not fond of the Mek's face at all. Definitely too serious for my likes. The alt head is a little better.
Serious Mekboy is serious. I like the head. I mean he's a Teknikian and looks how his stuff is working while thinking of ways to improve it - second head looks too warbossy to me and doesn't have the bionics and Frankenstein screws.
For me personally, the random bolts are a bit too random on the first head. The jawline doesn't look quite big enough to support whatever would be attached to bolts that big. The big one under the ear looks good to me, and matches up to where the big metal jaws tend to be attached, which I find pleasing. The other two just look off.
Kroot army set coming in April, so likely the Custodes/Orks are at the end of this month
Chaos will get two boxsets, each with a new HQ. One is a generic Chaos Lord, the other is a Jump Lord. (So likely Battleforces like Orks/Custodes and not army sets like DA/Kroot)
New Combat Patrols:
Tau - Commander, Pathfinders with KT upgrades, Fire Warriors, Devil Fish
Orks - Beastsnaggers focused
Custodes will get a new one but hasn't heard what's in it
Sisters of Battle will get a Boxset themed about Fast Attack with many jump troops (Zephyrim/Seraphim) and a new Jump Pack Canoness
Genestealers Cults get a new Psyker with a huge swollen head (Maybe something like the Blackstone Fortress Rogue Psyker?), also get a boxset but not sure yet what's in it
Blood Angels - Coming this Summer
After them Krieg are coming, likely with an army set like Kroot
oh. cool. another genestealers character. that's exactly what the army needed!
also, unless the box set is nothing but jackals, ridgerunners, and acolytes, that's gonna be a pass. i already have enough neophytes to last a lifetime, and that's most likely what it'll be filled with (and for good reason)
Character models are what GW does now to give an army something when they aren't giving them new units, but want to have some marketing attention on them.
I do get the annoyance, but Cults at least have a good functional army behind them. It's worse for things like Fyreslayers in AoS where there's 2 troop kits and EVERY other model is a leader kit.
For GSC I'm more encouraged by the rumour that there's a new Brood Brothers upgrade sprue via KT. Not because I want to buy it, but because it's a sign that BB will continue to have some form of rules support in the codex rather than just being dropped.
xttz wrote: For GSC I'm more encouraged by the rumour that there's a new Brood Brothers upgrade sprue via KT. Not because I want to buy it, but because it's a sign that BB will continue to have some form of rules support in the codex rather than just being dropped.
i don't think it was ever a question if brood brothers would stick around; it's a core part of the army's identity. i'm still disappointed by the idea of a brood brothers KT because brood brothers is already something that exists and doesn't need a bespoke kit to facilitate itself
I suppose that this codex could be the return of brood brothers units being within the codex, and not allies, which would be a shakeup?
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Overread wrote: Character models are what GW does now to give an army something when they aren't giving them new units, but want to have some marketing attention on them.
I do get the annoyance, but Cults at least have a good functional army behind them. It's worse for things like Fyreslayers in AoS where there's 2 troop kits and EVERY other model is a leader kit.
GSC is entirely functional, but aside from the two half-finished armies from 9th edition, it feels like the weakest range in the game. we have a grand total of four infantry kits (neophytes, acolytes, aberrants, and the tyranids' genestealer kit)... but this still only translate into there being nine different non-character datasheets (and 13 characters). i know it could be worse, but it's still pretty frustrating
xttz wrote: For GSC I'm more encouraged by the rumour that there's a new Brood Brothers upgrade sprue via KT. Not because I want to buy it, but because it's a sign that BB will continue to have some form of rules support in the codex rather than just being dropped.
i don't think it was ever a question if brood brothers would stick around; it's a core part of the army's identity. i'm still disappointed by the idea of a brood brothers KT because brood brothers is already something that exists and doesn't need a bespoke kit to facilitate itself
I suppose that this codex could be the return of brood brothers units being within the codex, and not allies, which would be a shakeup?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Overread wrote: Character models are what GW does now to give an army something when they aren't giving them new units, but want to have some marketing attention on them.
I do get the annoyance, but Cults at least have a good functional army behind them. It's worse for things like Fyreslayers in AoS where there's 2 troop kits and EVERY other model is a leader kit.
GSC is entirely functional, but aside from the two half-finished armies from 9th edition, it feels like the weakest range in the game. we have a grand total of four infantry kits (neophytes, acolytes, aberrants, and the tyranids' genestealer kit)... but this still only translate into there being nine different non-character datasheets (and 13 characters). i know it could be worse, but it's still pretty frustrating
Arguably less character sheets but more customisability for characters would be better.
xttz wrote: For GSC I'm more encouraged by the rumour that there's a new Brood Brothers upgrade sprue via KT. Not because I want to buy it, but because it's a sign that BB will continue to have some form of rules support in the codex rather than just being dropped.
i don't think it was ever a question if brood brothers would stick around; it's a core part of the army's identity. i'm still disappointed by the idea of a brood brothers KT because brood brothers is already something that exists and doesn't need a bespoke kit to facilitate itself
I suppose that this codex could be the return of brood brothers units being within the codex, and not allies, which would be a shakeup?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Overread wrote: Character models are what GW does now to give an army something when they aren't giving them new units, but want to have some marketing attention on them.
I do get the annoyance, but Cults at least have a good functional army behind them. It's worse for things like Fyreslayers in AoS where there's 2 troop kits and EVERY other model is a leader kit.
GSC is entirely functional, but aside from the two half-finished armies from 9th edition, it feels like the weakest range in the game. we have a grand total of four infantry kits (neophytes, acolytes, aberrants, and the tyranids' genestealer kit)... but this still only translate into there being nine different non-character datasheets (and 13 characters). i know it could be worse, but it's still pretty frustrating
Arguably less character sheets but more customisability for characters would be better.
Sadly I don't see this happening. Right now GW likes to have more character models and less modularity on a single model type.
IT lets them have more models to release for a given army which means more opportunities to market them with something people will pay attention too.
For customers its honestly about the same - either you've 1 model with a dozen different build combos that you have to buy a dozen times to build one of each; or you've a dozen individual models.
Genestealer cults are missing the most important mini for any miniature cult army, an old school patriarch on a throne, not the fancy shenanigans of today and while we are at it a Limo.
xttz wrote: For GSC I'm more encouraged by the rumour that there's a new Brood Brothers upgrade sprue via KT. Not because I want to buy it, but because it's a sign that BB will continue to have some form of rules support in the codex rather than just being dropped.
i don't think it was ever a question if brood brothers would stick around; it's a core part of the army's identity. i'm still disappointed by the idea of a brood brothers KT because brood brothers is already something that exists and doesn't need a bespoke kit to facilitate itself
I suppose that this codex could be the return of brood brothers units being within the codex, and not allies, which would be a shakeup?
While I don't disagree, the thing to keep in mind about KT releases is that they actually ARE KT releases... And in that context, a BB kit IS super important because a) BB don't currently exist in KT and b) BB are super important in the life cycle of a Cult, so if you're playing narratively, they are essential; a Cult literally cannot have ANYTHING except Purestrains and a Patriarch unless it has BB, because it is the BB that breed hybrids.
This did get a little blurrier in the 9th ed dex... The Genestealer life cycle is icky, and GW doesn't like to get into the details, but the fluff was written in a different era.
My fear is that GW feths up the upgrade sprue and gives them Alien looking heads, because we already saw that with the previous frame- it's connected to that blurring of the life cycle. In the clearer fluff, BB were understood to be physically indistinguishable from the host species EXCEPT that they have a psychic predisposition to dislike those that don't share Cult DNA and a compulsion to be attracted to and protective of those that do, and that their offspring will be born hybridized.
No weird heads. I mean granted, even if their are weird heads, that doesn't mean I have to use them... But then that diminishes the value of the sprue.
xttz wrote: For GSC I'm more encouraged by the rumour that there's a new Brood Brothers upgrade sprue via KT. Not because I want to buy it, but because it's a sign that BB will continue to have some form of rules support in the codex rather than just being dropped.
i don't think it was ever a question if brood brothers would stick around; it's a core part of the army's identity. i'm still disappointed by the idea of a brood brothers KT because brood brothers is already something that exists and doesn't need a bespoke kit to facilitate itself
I suppose that this codex could be the return of brood brothers units being within the codex, and not allies, which would be a shakeup?
While I don't disagree, the thing to keep in mind about KT releases is that they actually ARE KT releases... And in that context, a BB kit IS super important because a) BB don't currently exist in KT and b) BB are super important in the life cycle of a Cult, so if you're playing narratively, they are essential; a Cult literally cannot have ANYTHING except Purestrains and a Patriarch unless it has BB, because it is the BB that breed hybrids.
This did get a little blurrier in the 9th ed dex... The Genestealer life cycle is icky, and GW doesn't like to get into the details, but the fluff was written in a different era.
My fear is that GW feths up the upgrade sprue and gives them Alien looking heads, because we already saw that with the previous frame- it's connected to that blurring of the life cycle. In the clearer fluff, BB were understood to be physically indistinguishable from the host species EXCEPT that they have a psychic predisposition to dislike those that don't share Cult DNA and a compulsion to be attracted to and protective of those that do, and that their offspring will be born hybridized.
No weird heads. I mean granted, even if their are weird heads, that doesn't mean I have to use them... But then that diminishes the value of the sprue.
my issue with giving BB a bespoke kit is that GSC already have a BB kit. it's called cadians. the lore is already served by being able to take cadians. unless GW are going to change how BB works from the current ally rules (entirely possible, and if so i'll be less annoyed), an upgrade sprue for cadians isn't really giving us something new for the army's toolbox
xttz wrote: For GSC I'm more encouraged by the rumour that there's a new Brood Brothers upgrade sprue via KT. Not because I want to buy it, but because it's a sign that BB will continue to have some form of rules support in the codex rather than just being dropped.
i don't think it was ever a question if brood brothers would stick around; it's a core part of the army's identity. i'm still disappointed by the idea of a brood brothers KT because brood brothers is already something that exists and doesn't need a bespoke kit to facilitate itself
I suppose that this codex could be the return of brood brothers units being within the codex, and not allies, which would be a shakeup?
While I don't disagree, the thing to keep in mind about KT releases is that they actually ARE KT releases... And in that context, a BB kit IS super important because a) BB don't currently exist in KT and b) BB are super important in the life cycle of a Cult, so if you're playing narratively, they are essential; a Cult literally cannot have ANYTHING except Purestrains and a Patriarch unless it has BB, because it is the BB that breed hybrids.
This did get a little blurrier in the 9th ed dex... The Genestealer life cycle is icky, and GW doesn't like to get into the details, but the fluff was written in a different era.
My fear is that GW feths up the upgrade sprue and gives them Alien looking heads, because we already saw that with the previous frame- it's connected to that blurring of the life cycle. In the clearer fluff, BB were understood to be physically indistinguishable from the host species EXCEPT that they have a psychic predisposition to dislike those that don't share Cult DNA and a compulsion to be attracted to and protective of those that do, and that their offspring will be born hybridized.
No weird heads. I mean granted, even if their are weird heads, that doesn't mean I have to use them... But then that diminishes the value of the sprue.
Just to clarify, you want a BB upgrade kit that leaves them physically indistinguishable from normal Cadians? Can I interest you in this lovely Cadian upgrade sprue then?
I get the concern / disdain around GW blurring / changing fluff but it's just kinda what they tend to do. But I don't see them selling an upgrade sprue that leaves BB looking just like Cadians. Because that would be pointless. Also, some times physical differences need to be exaggerated for the table top, otherwise everything looks the same. (See impractical spikes on traitor guard for example).
You could have an upgrade sprue which includes different styles of weapons (perhaps a more locally produced variant, or auto- instead of las- weapons), different helmet designs, bald heads, cult daggers and icons like the current sprue, add banners, blasting charges etc.
As some with a boatload of GSC models, I’m all for a conversion kit that lets me add GSC themed heads, arms, weapons to infantry and more ‘cultish’ icons to vehicles, etc. to IG models.
So new BA Assault Terminators coming in summer? Nice. I hope we also get a bunch of new iconography and chapter specific gubbins. And hey, how about some new Sang guard that actually looks good while you're at it
NAVARRO wrote: Genestealer cults are missing the most important mini for any miniature cult army, an old school patriarch on a throne, not the fancy shenanigans of today and while we are at it a Limo.
Where's the damn Wave 2 for Votann? Bloody hell.
I could see a Patriarch on throne as a Warhammer+/event model, not so much as a regular model. If they still did diorama models like Saint Kathy or the bony dude from AoS, there'd be more of a chance there. But then, hey, I dare GW to prove me wrong!
Limo would be cool. What self-respecting mine boss rolls around in some crummy truck? Shame GW lacks that kind of vision.
Squats are a bit of a funny one. There have been other armies that got an update after only a year. Is that not the case here because the practice wasn't well received? Or because the new edition made that commitment undesirable? Seems like GW is content to give them a little more time either way and tide people over with Kill Team kits.
I wonder if we'll get an updated roadmap for Adepticon. Half of the codices on the old one are out or have their releases announced. Might give a bit of an idea when we can expect space stunties.
assuming that the KT is a scouts team, i think votann would be due for some redundancy in their infantry. give them a second melee unit, another shooting infantry option, and a jump pack unit, and they're better in that regard. maybe another vehicle and some characters, and they'll be a proper, if small, range
cuda1179 wrote: When they do get around to Votann again they have better include:
1. Either a second troops choice, bring back 20 man squads, or both.
2. Units of Jump infantry like that guy from the Kill team box.
3. A flier of some kind. (okay this third thing isn't such a huge deal).
1. What would the second choice be? More melee focused? Scouts like T’au Pathfinders?
2. Could these be the second troop choice? Don’t make them super fast just like ignore terrain or something.
3. In my head this looks like a giant version of the Dwarf Gyrocopter. Or maybe the troop transport can be like the gyrobomber but with tiny individual drop pods instead of the bombs?
3. In my head this looks like a giant version of the Dwarf Gyrocopter. Or maybe the troop transport can be like the gyrobomber but with tiny individual drop pods instead of the bombs?
The Iron Eagle Gyrocopter from Epic is sitting right there waiting eagerly for an embiggening and style update.
cuda1179 wrote: When they do get around to Votann again they have better include:
1. Either a second troops choice, bring back 20 man squads, or both.
2. Units of Jump infantry like that guy from the Kill team box.
3. A flier of some kind. (okay this third thing isn't such a huge deal).
1. What would the second choice be? More melee focused? Scouts like T’au Pathfinders?
2. Could these be the second troop choice? Don’t make them super fast just like ignore terrain or something.
3. In my head this looks like a giant version of the Dwarf Gyrocopter. Or maybe the troop transport can be like the gyrobomber but with tiny individual drop pods instead of the bombs?
1. Pure wishlisting, but a squad that had a support function and could infiltrate and have a bonus to cover would be most welcome.
2. Yeah, if they made jumppack squats a troops choice I could live with that. Even if they aren't "Fast" in the game I'd still want them to be marginally faster than foot kin.
3. Okay, a mini droppod gyrocopter bomber is the greatest idea I've heard in a long time.
One thing I'd like to see for Votann is some kind of a Dreadnought-type thing. Mantic's Forge Father faction (their own take on Space Dwarves) has the Iron Ancestor, so the concept isn't exactly unique.
Dear God. The only point adjustment for Dark Angels was an INCREASE??
About half of the army could use a 10%points reduction. Some units could use a reduction of 15+%. When units are similar, yet objectively worse, than their vanilla counterparts and cost more something is wrong. And vanilla marines themselves aren't exactly tearing it up in tourneys.
cuda1179 wrote: Dear God. The only point adjustment for Dark Angels was an INCREASE??
About half of the army could use a 10%points reduction. Some units could use a reduction of 15+%. When units are similar, yet objectively worse, than their vanilla counterparts and cost more something is wrong. And vanilla marines themselves aren't exactly tearing it up in tourneys.
It's a massive decrease compared to what's printed in the codex at least?
cuda1179 wrote: Dear God. The only point adjustment for Dark Angels was an INCREASE??
About half of the army could use a 10%points reduction. Some units could use a reduction of 15+%. When units are similar, yet objectively worse, than their vanilla counterparts and cost more something is wrong. And vanilla marines themselves aren't exactly tearing it up in tourneys.
It's a massive decrease compared to what's printed in the codex at least?
Idk for sure, I haven't picked up the codex yet. However the points adjustments are now color coded (red for increase, green for decrease, black for no change). All points are black, except for one red.
Idk for sure, I haven't picked up the codex yet. However the points adjustments are now color coded (red for increase, green for decrease, black for no change). All points are black, except for one red.
Thats compared to the last MFM. Compared to the codex these are the changes:
Idk for sure, I haven't picked up the codex yet. However the points adjustments are now color coded (red for increase, green for decrease, black for no change). All points are black, except for one red.
Thats compared to the last MFM.
Compared to the codex these are the changes:
That should say:
Ravenwing Darkshroud 120pts -> 115pts
Basically seems most point changes were made in January except for the RW command squad, which did get slightly better rules as it can now be attached to larger units of Black Knights / Outriders and make the bonuses last longer. Effective unit size changes from 3-6 to be 6-10.
Idk for sure, I haven't picked up the codex yet. However the points adjustments are now color coded (red for increase, green for decrease, black for no change). All points are black, except for one red.
Thats compared to the last MFM.
Compared to the codex these are the changes:
Well, better. I still think Lion El'Johnson could use another 30 point drop, seeing as he lost an ability with the new codex. Ravenwing command looks better. Nephelim shouldn't have had an increase. Any notes on the Inner Circle?
it's one of our most iconic units from the RT days! i'm shocked it wasn't in the first line of support, but i guess they wanted to go for the blue collar worker aesthetic, and it doesn't really fit the current line... they need to get there someday, tho
it's one of our most iconic units from the RT days! i'm shocked it wasn't in the first line of support, but i guess they wanted to go for the blue collar worker aesthetic, and it doesn't really fit the current line... they need to get there someday, tho
It needs to be a reclaimed vehicle of privilige, the former passenger tied to the front while their workers gun it down the streets.
it's one of our most iconic units from the RT days! i'm shocked it wasn't in the first line of support, but i guess they wanted to go for the blue collar worker aesthetic, and it doesn't really fit the current line... they need to get there someday, tho
But those workers need a boss, and that boss needs a limo
Idk for sure, I haven't picked up the codex yet. However the points adjustments are now color coded (red for increase, green for decrease, black for no change). All points are black, except for one red.
Thats compared to the last MFM.
Compared to the codex these are the changes:
Well, better. I still think Lion El'Johnson could use another 30 point drop, seeing as he lost an ability with the new codex. Ravenwing command looks better. Nephelim shouldn't have had an increase. Any notes on the Inner Circle?
Would be a better representation if you did old MFM to codex to new MFM as the codex points were so whack. The numbers aren’t great and the nerf in rules just makes it so much worse.
alextroy wrote: There is only one points change between MFM 1.6 and 1.7. The Ravenwing Command Squad dropped to 130 points which is marked as a change in MFM 1.7.
There were a bunch of other changes that are not marked:
Spoiler:
Deathwing Command Squad is gone
Deathwing Knights can no longer have more than 5 models
Deathwing Strikemaster is gone
Inner Circle Champions are added
Ravenwing Command Squad can only have 3 models
Ravenwing Talonmaster is gone
Heavenfall Blade has been replaced with Weapons of the First Legion
Aren't those changes implemented by the Codex though? Presumably the MFM is just noting changes from that.
alextroy wrote: There is only one points change between MFM 1.6 and 1.7. The Ravenwing Command Squad dropped to 130 points which is marked as a change in MFM 1.7.
There were a bunch of other changes that are not marked:
Spoiler:
Deathwing Command Squad is gone
Deathwing Knights can no longer have more than 5 models
Deathwing Strikemaster is gone
Inner Circle Champions are added
Ravenwing Command Squad can only have 3 models
Ravenwing Talonmaster is gone
Heavenfall Blade has been replaced with Weapons of the First Legion
Aren't those changes implemented by the Codex though? Presumably the MFM is just noting changes from that.
No, because the previous MFM was released after this book would have gone to print. Essentially, we should just ignore any points found in Codices.
points in codices are, at this point, an artifact. it's worthwhile for GW to still print them (people should be able to play with just the book, if they don't have access to the online points), but for people who do follow that stuff, they will never be relevant except as an amusing anecdote of "here's what they initially were". books need to be printed sixish months ahead of release, iirc, so it's hard to make points be accurate when things are changing faster than that
alextroy wrote: There is only one points change between MFM 1.6 and 1.7. The Ravenwing Command Squad dropped to 130 points which is marked as a change in MFM 1.7.
There were a bunch of other changes that are not marked:
Spoiler:
Deathwing Command Squad is gone
Deathwing Knights can no longer have more than 5 models
Deathwing Strikemaster is gone
Inner Circle Champions are added
Ravenwing Command Squad can only have 3 models
Ravenwing Talonmaster is gone
Heavenfall Blade has been replaced with Weapons of the First Legion
Aren't those changes implemented by the Codex though? Presumably the MFM is just noting changes from that.
Yes. But there was also a points differences between the Codex, MFM 1.6 and MFM 1.7.
As noted by Matrindur, Ravenwing Black Knights are 115 points in the Codex. They are 90 points in both MFM 1.6 and MFM 1.7.
My issue is with people thinking that units got points breaks by contrasting them with codex. Its far more useful to compare to previous MFM and realize that things ain’t great, especially when you factor in the unit nerfs.
Garrac wrote: Didn't valrak say Agents were coming this summer? Now he's saying it's blood angels? I'm confused
I guess it could be both at the same time, but with AoS 4th coming seems like too much kits in june-july, even for GW
The wording is a bit off, he said he believed it would be agents and he'd heard about boxsets and a new coteaz, he also said that blood angels are in summer, so the two don't necessarily contradict and in true rumour fashion, the agents was only ever his personal belief.
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