Zweischneid wrote: Reaper may be one of the companies that breaks the trend, but generally speaking, the more a Kickstarter is overfunded, the more likely is a delay and the longer is the delay it seems.
Of course, ignoring that that statistic is for the "Design and Technology" category and isn't to be extrapolated elsewhere - Reaper is already 100 steps ahead of the game in many different ways.
They have their own facilities already to handle everything except the manufacture. Most Kickstarters are at the guy in his garage point of things. If they are successful, they either have to figure out how to work from their garage or go through the process of finding, fitting and hiring people to do work.
They also have experience shipping stuff. There is a good bit of difference between doing production order fulfillment for a living - and packing up a few eBay orders every month or year. There work should be more efficient once it starts.
They have an existing manufacturing partner. Although they aren't doing the actual production in house - they are using a company who they have been using for quite awhile. Not having to go through that "get to know one another" phase prevents a lot of stumbling blocks that start ups face, not to mention all the ones who don't even know who they will be using as a manufacturer to begin with.
They have a bug free product already. With the translucent plastics, they aren't doing anything "new" - no need for prototypes and testing. Things can move straight into production. The company in China which will be doing the work apparently makes toys when they aren't making miniatures - so if I had to guess, the clear plastics have been tested already in dollar stores around the world already.
They are an actual business. Sounds snooty - but it makes a good bit of difference. If someone were to show up and hand you $3.4 million dollars tomorrow and tell you to go make some miniatures, you wouldn't know where to begin (OK - maybe you might...but many people wouldn't). Things like the tax paperwork, license agreements, sculptor's contracts, workman's comp insurance... They all slow things down when you are getting things going. They get in the way of actually doing work. For Reaper, that is all done and behind them. They just need to fill out a few additional forms when they file their taxes and will likely be good to go.
So, while I am pretty sure they will come very close to their deadline (might miss by a week or two just due to the sheer volume) - if they do, it won't be because they broke the trend at all. The trend which was pointed at, doesn't really apply to them at all to begin with. A more detailed comparison would need to be done comparing start ups versus existing companies. Most the ones who face long delays are likely start ups. Most the ones who deliver on time are probably existing companies.
Hey, if you are right, more power to you (and Reaper). Not saying they will delay.
Yes, the sample IS based the on Design and Technology category. They also give a reason why they chose that category as their sample:
Projects in the Design and Technology categories are used since they deliver concrete products as rewards and are required by Kickstarter to have a manufacturing plan and a functional prototype.
So yeah, I think this translates reasonably well to companies and Kickstarters like Reaper (though not necessarily Reaper itself). There are no "garage-guy-dreaming-wild" projects in the sample. The selection was specifically one that only includes people who already have a prototype, often an early (or different) product and a manufacturing plan with the details set in place.
Of course, that doesn't require quite as established a company as Reaper. And of course, most stuff on Kickstarter are Start-ups (that's what the place is for, companies like Reaper shouldn't be there in the first place), but the data only samples from those that do have more than just a plan on a napkin.
kronk wrote: I think the only thing you can trade in the Vampire level is the Sophie, but perhaps that will change.
check the videos, one of them mentions that if you don't want X, you can trade it for Y, and one of them was sophie. They hinted that when the survey or manager or whatever comes out...
ironicsilence wrote: I wonder once everyone gets a chance to finish adding on options from the pledge manager...what will the total amount be for all the pledges
ironicsilence wrote: I wonder once everyone gets a chance to finish adding on options from the pledge manager...what will the total amount be for all the pledges
Don't think we will ever know unless Reaper decides to release the info. The post-KS add ons are not added to the KS total.
I've backed 5 games on Kickstarter, only 1 of which did not deliver on time.
Zpocalypse by Greenbier Games is completely guilty of having a kickstarter that outperformed their expectations and keeping up with the demands of it is going to take months longer than their original projected delivery date.
Of course, that doesn't require quite as established a company as Reaper. And of course, most stuff on Kickstarter are Start-ups (that's what the place is for, companies like Reaper shouldn't be there in the first place),
Where do you get off saying that Reaper shouldn't be on Kickstarter? There's no reason they can't use it same as anyone else. It seems like Kickstarter was the ideal method for raising enough $ to take bones from a slowly released sideline to a major production with massive fan support.
Is there some statement that only $-poor startups can use kickstarter? Exactly how young/cash-strapped/inexperienced does a company have to be to be kickstarter-worthy?
Sorry if this comes off a bit harsh, but I really like this project and would like to see other established companies use kickstarter to startup new products that fans want.
Eilif wrote: Where do you get off saying that Reaper shouldn't be on Kickstarter? There's no reason they can't use it same as anyone else. It seems like Kickstarter was the ideal method for raising enough $ to take bones from a slowly released sideline to a major production with massive fan support.
HA! Penny arcade. Truly selling out... with Style!
It's a funding method, period!
People pay for what they WANT. It's ins't entirely cheap (as they need to pay Kickstarter as well) BUT there is no business plan checking or credit checking.
Hey guys, I'm part of a podcast called "The Nerdherders" and we scored an interview with Bryan Stiltz, the production manager over at Reaper about the kickstarter. We got some good info from him about it. You can check it out here directly:
Slinky wrote: Nope, it's only Sophie that can be traded.
I bet you your Sophie and and nethyrmaul that you can and will be able to do trades and exchanges. I don't have to worry about you not having ordered nethyrmaul, because I know that if you went in at vampire, you'll be able to trade stuff in to get it.
I will tell you why they will allow it. They had a lot of people whining every step of the way. Say,for every 10 that asked for one thing to be released In the campaign, another 100 whinged about it's release, case in point are the halflings. In order to keep people happy, reaper will be willing to permit trades (probably the entire reward lots, as they were unlocked), to give whiners what they actually want. The advantage of doing this is it cuts down on the labor, material cost and shipping for those that do choose to trade into a smaller box, and it also does reaper the favor of taking away miiatures from resellers preventing a saturation of the market come April. It's true, they are already paid, so its not like they are losing money, but presented with the option of giving you less dollar value on account of the fact that it's what you want, then it seems like a good idea to save a few hundred runs of chronoscope series to sell them at full store value since it works out to bring in more than the one model you traded it for. They have about 2-3 weeks before they actually start receiving the orders from their clients via survey, and they could easily find a way of making a trade system with the time to spare, if they havem't done so already.
It's been hinted at often in the videos and I don't know where'd else that they want to give the backers to. Get what they want, not just a pile of stuff.
@poda_t: Any reason you think this? If they said this in the actual Kickstarter I imagine they would have gotten a lot more people that would have wanted just the sci-fi stuff.
Eilif wrote: Where do you get off saying that Reaper shouldn't be on Kickstarter? There's no reason they can't use it same as anyone else. It seems like Kickstarter was the ideal method for raising enough $ to take bones from a slowly released sideline to a major production with massive fan support.
I think this is quite a lot better, mainly because this isn't a business-venture that could and should get regular (bank or stockmarket) investment to start (and return proper equity to those who invest, rather than consumer goods), but a "cause" that actually depends on fan-supported "funding" of people who identify with the cause (less dissimilar, perhaps, to traditional forms of "funding" for a political cause or an academic scholarship, which all rely on "funding" to support a worthy cause, rather than an up-front "investment" that shirks away from paying its "investors" proper equity-returns).
That said.. I don't "hate" Reaper. I've got my own box of Bones incoming.
But Kickstarter is (at least at the moment) also a place where lots of start-ups and/or non-business causes thrive.
If Reaper goes to bed with them by joining a "start-up" platform, it shouldn't be surprised by also being "included" in Kickstarter statistics and analytics and extrapolation of trends.
The hypocrisy of A) we use Kickstarter cause it get's $$$$ but B) we're sooooo much better than all the other riff-raff on Kickstarter cause we're a "proper company" and the others don't know what they're doing stinks. That's all.
I think this is quite a lot better, mainly because this isn't a business-venture that could and should get regular (bank or stockmarket) investment to start (and return proper equity to those who invest, rather than consumer goods), but a "cause" that actually depends on fan-supported "funding" of people who identify with the cause (less dissimilar, perhaps, to traditional forms of "funding" for a political cause or an academic scholarship, which all rely on "funding" to support a worthy cause, rather than an up-front "investment" that shirks away from paying its "investors" proper equity-returns).
You really should investigate them a little more. These guys ARE a business. They sponsor and run a major gaming convention, fer cryin out loud.
At the end of the day, Kickstarter is a CROWDfunding site, and the crowd will decide what should or should not be there via their wallets. Not your's, mine, or any other single person's opinion.
The hypocrisy of A) we use Kickstarter cause it get's $$$$ but B) we're sooooo much better than all the other riff-raff on Kickstarter cause we're a "proper company" and the others don't know what they're doing stinks. That's all.
Not sure how you justify this statement. I haven't seen anything from Reaper even remotely like that.
Slinky wrote: The reason I say that is that I was following the KS comments fairly closely and that is exactly what Reaper said in the comments
Slinky is correct,
I followed every page of the 100+ thread on Reaper's Forums until the kickstarter ended. Throughout the process Reaper has made it clear that Sophie is the only exchangeable choice. There's even a bones trading thread on the Reaper forum. People are free to believe whatever they want, but there is exactly no evidence that anything beyond Sophie is exchangeable and plenty of evidence in the opposite direction.
I think this is quite a lot better, mainly because this isn't a business-venture that could and should get regular (bank or stockmarket) investment to start (and return proper equity to those who invest, rather than consumer goods), but a "cause" that actually depends on fan-supported "funding" of people who identify with the cause (less dissimilar, perhaps, to traditional forms of "funding" for a political cause or an academic scholarship, which all rely on "funding" to support a worthy cause, rather than an up-front "investment" that shirks away from paying its "investors" proper equity
Reaper used the kickstarter to offer its customers a prepayment facility which is a type of investment used frequently to expand factories or mines. Google it and you will see lots of gold mines doing the same thing with hedge funds investing. Essentially you loan the company money and get repaid in product at a better price than market when the loan is due. Not all investments give you equity in a business.
Reaper used the kickstarter to offer its customers a prepayment facility which is a type of investment used frequently to expand factories or mines. Google it and you will see lots of gold mines doing the same thing with hedge funds investing. Essentially you loan the company money and get repaid in product at a better price than market when the loan is due. Not all investments give you equity in a business.
Gold is not a consumer good. It is widely used throughout the world as a monetary exchange and is effectively a form of capital returns. There is a reason currencies have historically often been backed by gold reserves or pegged to a gold standard. In these cases (not frequently used anymore), the actual paper-bill one commonly describes as "money" was worth it because it was guaranteed in gold reserves. Gold is still traded and used as a hedge against currency inflation.
Plastic miniatures, on the other hand, are a classic consumer good. Hence, giving away your money for miniatures is the exact opposite of investment. The former is "consumption", the latter (investment) is "deferred consumption" on the prospect of getting "investment returns" that will increase your future ability to "consume".
If anything, Kickstarters should probably be seen as "negative" or "inverse" investment, since you are "paying" now but only receive your product down the line (say, in half a year). So the "value" you get for the money you spend today on consumer products (e.g. miniatures) that you don't get today is actually smaller by the amount of interest you could have earned by putting the money into an interest-earning account until the product was actually available for purchase right away.
If investments increase your future ability to "consume" (through capital returns), Kickstarters actually decrease your future ability to "consume" by the opportunity costs of forgone interest during the time you wait for your product.
Reaper used the kickstarter to offer its customers a prepayment facility which is a type of investment used frequently to expand factories or mines. Google it and you will see lots of gold mines doing the same thing with hedge funds investing. Essentially you loan the company money and get repaid in product at a better price than market when the loan is due. Not all investments give you equity in a business.
Gold is not a consumer good. It is widely used throughout the world as a monetary exchange and is effectively a form of capital returns. There is a reason currencies have historically often been backed by gold reserves or pegged to a gold standard. In these cases (not frequently used anymore), the actual paper-bill one commonly describes as "money" was worth it because it was guaranteed in gold reserves. Gold is still traded and used as a hedge against currency inflation.
Plastic miniatures, on the other hand, are a classic consumer good. Hence, giving away your money for miniatures is the exact opposite of investment. The former is "consumption", the latter (investment) is "deferred consumption" on the prospect of getting "investment returns" that will increase your future ability to "consume".
If anything, Kickstarters should probably be seen as "negative" or "inverse" investment, since you are "paying" now but only receive your product down the line (say, in half a year). So the "value" you get for the money you spend today on consumer products (e.g. miniatures) that you don't get today is actually smaller by the amount of interest you could have earned by putting the money into an interest-earning account until the product was actually available for purchase right away.
If investments increase your future ability to "consume" (through capital returns), Kickstarters actually decrease your future ability to "consume" by the opportunity costs of forgone interest during the time you wait for your product.
Prepayment facilities are used for all sorts of commodities, it can be any sort of widget, shoe, bacon, etc... I only suggested gold because mining companies have a tenancy to crow about every deal they do (combination of marketing and much stricter disclosure rules) so they actually show up in a google search whereas everyone else in the world keeps their business dealings more private. Plastic minis are a commodity, there will be a retail market for them, and everyone pledging vampire and getting options is getting them at a price well below market price which allows a sale for a profit. If you don't believe me, wait until march and watch ebay.
As for a negative investment, just do some of that net present value / discounting economics hoodoo and you'll see that even though your dollars are tied up, they are still getting you a better 'deal' than investing them for a few months and then buying at full retail would get you.
Zweischneid wrote: Kickstarters actually decrease your future ability to "consume" by the opportunity costs of forgone interest during the time you wait for your product.
I don't really look as a reduction in my ability to consume. I saw it as a preorder, from a company with the experience and klout to deliver 100% of what they promised at a 75% discount. Speculating on the actually % here but Vampire investors with no other options paid .42 cent cost per model for the $100 they spent, because the normal cost of a bones mini is $2-3 I went low, hence 75% discount I arrived at. So with the extra $300 I saved on this buy I had no reservation taking a friend out to dinner, buying another Hot Toy, etc etc. The $100 I spent this month doesn't affect my entertainment budget at all in months September thru March when I get my big box of miniatures that I may or may not do anything at all with...because I kind of bought this on a whim.
I'm perfectly in line with the reason they wanted the money in the first place. I see reaper as established, but not living high on the hog. A friend and I were discussing this whole thing last night and he brought up that Reaper had been hurting over the last 3 years because WotC's line of prepainted minis to go with their D&D system had panned out very well and took some of Reaper's pie. To what extent? Speculation, but I didn't really have any problem at all dropping dime on Vampire + Options to help Reaper out. I figure they owe about 19000 backers stuff at one level or another, but after that they have moulds for years to come to provide cheap minis to gamers for the next twenty years. That's why I voted with my dolllars for Reaper. And they really hooked me up for my investment with them.
If anything, Kickstarters should probably be seen as "negative" or "inverse" investment, since you are "paying" now but only receive your product down the line (say, in half a year). So the "value" you get for the money you spend today on consumer products (e.g. miniatures) that you don't get today is actually smaller by the amount of interest you could have earned by putting the money into an interest-earning account until the product was actually available for purchase right away.
If investments increase your future ability to "consume" (through capital returns), Kickstarters actually decrease your future ability to "consume" by the opportunity costs of forgone interest during the time you wait for your product.
Not quite. I won't defend kickstarter as a true "investment" as you don't get stock. But this statement...
"So the "value" you get for the money you spend today on consumer products (e.g. miniatures) that you don't get today is actually smaller by the amount of interest you could have earned by putting the money into an interest-earning account until the product was actually available for purchase right away."
Is just not a good reason for not investing in kickstarter.
The reaper kickstarter is offering product at around half-off in exchange for a 6 month wait. I don't know of many reliable investments that will double your money in 6 months. Thus, if you chose to invest your money, you would actually need an annual interest rate of 200% in order to earn enough interest to buy the product at the retail release price! The value lost over 6 months is negligible compared to the value gained by purchasing at a lower cost.
In the case of smaller kickstarters with less generous product discounts, you may be closer to the truth, but even then, consider a company like fanticide which is giving folks about a 20% discount (when free shipping is consdered) on their product in exchange for waiting one month. You're not going to find an interest rate that's going to give you 20% a month.
Compounding all this is the fact that many of these kickstarter projects wouldn't be available without the kickstarter, so not only do you get a product at below retail, you enable the purchase of a product that you might not otherwise be able to purchase at all.
Going into Bones (and many other Kickstarters) can net you some very real savings.
If you consider that particular chunk of your disposable income "already spend" anyhow (dont think there is an economic term for that), than it's an attractive offer.
Hell, even if you own a store or small eBay business, and use it to "purchase stock" at this incredible discount.. go do it.
If you just like the company and want to fund a worthy cause (Romney & Reaper 2012!!! hurray!!), knock yourself out.
One of the kickstarters I did made a comment that the amount of money they were receiving required some legal advice on how to claim it. He said that depending on what lawyer he talked to the money was considered an investment or a retail purchase. My guess is the IRS is going to sniffing all around kickstarter looking for ways to take a chunk of the money.
The legal definition of a security (an investment) is extraordinarily broad and inclusive because the courts have attempted to use securities legislation to protect regular folks from scams and swindles. Hawaii market center and Howey are the the places you would start looking for a definition but it's pretty much any money spent / pooled at a risk with the expectation of a benefit and no direct
control over the operations of the business.
Coupled with timing rules and American tax anti avoidance rules (economic substance over legal form), a lot of kickstarters could easily fall foul of a revenue agent in a bad mood or securities regulator with a hate on for hipsters. The Aussies are already looking into regulating crowd funding.
I'll grant that even at a great discount, buying for personal use is, as Zweischneid wrote, not an investment.
However...
If you are getting the reaper kickstarter for the purposes of reselling you can be pretty sure that with a retail roughly 200% of your initial outlay, you can undercut that and sell on the second hand market for 150% of your outlay, there by making a 50% profit.
If that is true and you are purchasing for reselling, does not that qualify as an investment?
frozenwastes wrote: Yes it would. The same as any other merchant throughout history that buys at one price and sells at another.
To support the notion of an investment, consider how similar the pledge in a kickstarter is to a bond issue. A bond is, in broadest terms, and IOU with interest, but if a bond issue fails, that is, in this case, insufficient funds are generated, all bonds are negated because the purpose of the bond issue fails.
Consider a sale of municipal bonds where, if there is sufficient interest in supporting the venture, a greater return will be guaranteed. This doesn't generally happen, of course, with municipal bonds, because they only sell a fixed amount.
Here, we're buying something akin (note, a pledge in a kickstarter is not technically a bond) to a bond; we pay X amount now, with the promise that we will receive a greater value later, the current funds being used for a particular purpose.
Reaper has essentially held a bond issue: to what purpose? Fund the transition from metal to plastic of miniature production.
For money invested, there is a guaranteed return, guaranteed on the faith of the company, like any other private bond. The investors don't receive cash, but merchandise equivalent value. Investors receive payout on a timetable (albeit a loose one), with very definite amounts. While most municipal/corporate bonds are not structured in this way, there is no particular legal barrier to it as a form of contract.
Heh, as investments go, I would say Reaper is probably more likely to deliver on this bond then, say, Greece.
But to be honest, this entire discussion is entirely academic and largely semantic. If someone considers it an investment, it has many similar features. If you want to consider it a pre-order, more power to you.
It lists, in spreadsheet format, all of the miniatures available through the kickstarter, along with information like the sculptor, the price in metal (if it's already available), and some better pictures.
It was a useful tool when I was trying to explain to my wife why I spent $180 on miniatures when I don't even play fantasy.
It lists, in spreadsheet format, all of the miniatures available through the kickstarter, along with information like the sculptor, the price in metal (if it's already available), and some better pictures.
It was a useful tool when I was trying to explain to my wife why I spent $180 on miniatures when I don't even play fantasy.
That is a nice, on topic link - thanks!
We need more on topic stuff here in this thread...
I know the bones models will cost less then the metal models but has there been any other kickstarter that give this much of a great value for the pledge level? Even if the bones models cost 50% of what the medal model costs thats still $500+ worth of models for $100. Wanted to use the phrase return on investment but figured with all the econ / investment / capital discuss that would be a poor choice of words
Just in case any of you were doing Bones exchanges with folks who are not local, here's the Vampire deal pic divided into 5 PDF pages, divided and numbered. Makes it easier to do a figure draw by chat. We did this last night and it took about 2 hours.
ironicsilence wrote: Even if the bones models cost 50% of what the medal model costs thats still $500+ worth of models for $100. Wanted to use the phrase return on investment but figured with all the econ / investment / capital discuss that would be a poor choice of words
I'm not going to address the econ thing anymore, but I would address the value statement. It's worth noting that bones typically cost 1/3-1/5 the cost of comparable metal models with individual foot models costing 1.50 to 2 bucks each, smaller figs (alot of these in this draw) go for around 60 cents each, and larger for more. If you were comparing what the bones on offer would go for retail then it's probably more accurate to say you're getting about $350-$400 worth of models for $100.
Sandra has been a favorite sculptor of mine for years, and although she may not do quite as dynamic of figures as often as some sculptors - her style is more along the lines of what you would see from the various Fantasy artists from the 1980s and 1990s (Elmore, Caldwell, Parkinson, Easley...).
Alpharius wrote: After checking the list, I find that I am a huge Sandra Garrity fan, especially when she sculpts giant monsters!
I concur. I especially like her hydra. I also found that I like most of Werner Klocke and Julie Guthrie's sculpts.
The one thing I wish that was included in the list was the year the metal equivalent was released. It's funny because as I'm looking through everything there's a number of sculpts that strike me as a little outdated, but it occurs to me that they may well have been sculpted a decade ago. For example, the skeletal spearmen and necropolis zombie which were both originally released in 2007. Maybe not a decade, but their age is showing.
I've only skimmed the "Econ" posts, but has anyone brought up that if even a quarter of the folks who pledged vampire put some of their models up for sale the month after getting them, then in March/April there will be a flood of 4000ish lots of Bones. Supply and demand will kick in and prices won't be that great for sellers.
Interesting. You can become an after the fact backer for a bit more money.
From the comments on the KS page:
Creator Bryan Stiltz about 1 hour ago
As far as people who didn't back (ie, someone who was not one of the 17,744 backers) they WILL be able to add new accounts at the pledge manager, but at a higher price than a backer paid - for example, a Vampire to them will be $150, and Options will be 20% Higher (Nethyrmaul will be $30, for example).
Alpharius wrote: After checking the list, I find that I am a huge Sandra Garrity fan, especially when she sculpts giant monsters!
I concur. I especially like her hydra. I also found that I like most of Werner Klocke and Julie Guthrie's sculpts.
The one thing I wish that was included in the list was the year the metal equivalent was released. It's funny because as I'm looking through everything there's a number of sculpts that strike me as a little outdated, but it occurs to me that they may well have been sculpted a decade ago. For example, the skeletal spearmen and necropolis zombie which were both originally released in 2007. Maybe not a decade, but their age is showing.
Make sure you get to the original release for the sculpture and not the release for that material or packaging of the sculpture.
The skeletons are over a decade old - and sculpted by their accountant/owner (not that that makes it any more or less...just saying Ed isn't one of their front line sculptors). You can see them on page 28 of their 2000 Holiday Catalog:
I can't remember if the zombies are new new or new old off the top of my head though. There are a lot to keep track of. Some of it goes to the age, others are the preference of their customers. A lot of figure painters tend to prefer the portrait poses over something which is more active.
@bbb Eh thems the breaks. I expect that to happen with all of the kickstarters that are physical game centeric and it's something I hope the businesses take into account. The key thing to remember with bones though is the cost is so low to the Vampire level that even if they sold those models at 50 cents per they are still making a profit.
If someone walked up to you with a model that you tough looked cool and said you could have it for 50 cents, would you buy it? (assuming you actually had change on you lol)
As far as people who didn't back (ie, someone who was not one of the 17,744 backers) they WILL be able to add new accounts at the pledge manager, but at a higher price than a backer paid - for example, a Vampire to them will be $150, and Options will be 20% Higher (Nethyrmaul will be $30, for example).
Interesting. You can become an after the fact backer for a bit more money.
From the comments on the KS page:
Creator Bryan Stiltz about 1 hour ago
As far as people who didn't back (ie, someone who was not one of the 17,744 backers) they WILL be able to add new accounts at the pledge manager, but at a higher price than a backer paid - for example, a Vampire to them will be $150, and Options will be 20% Higher (Nethyrmaul will be $30, for example).
Tim
yeah and I believe that would be money that goes directly to reaper as kickstarter wouldnt get to take a cut....I doubt they will ever release the number but I'd like to know what the real dollar amount will be once everything is all said and done
BlueDagger wrote: @bbb Eh thems the breaks. I expect that to happen with all of the kickstarters that are physical game centeric and it's something I hope the businesses take into account. The key thing to remember with bones though is the cost is so low to the Vampire level that even if they sold those models at 50 cents per they are still making a profit.
If someone walked up to you with a model that you tough looked cool and said you could have it for 50 cents, would you buy it? (assuming you actually had change on you lol)
As far as people who didn't back (ie, someone who was not one of the 17,744 backers) they WILL be able to add new accounts at the pledge manager, but at a higher price than a backer paid - for example, a Vampire to them will be $150, and Options will be 20% Higher (Nethyrmaul will be $30, for example).
Tim
Not gonna lie, this bugs me.
I think this is a good way to handle it...
A lot of Reaper fans never knew about the KS till it was over (so many folk never go online etc) and will want to be part of it. Blocking them would upset the fan base.
If they were just allowed to jump in the KS backers would be justifiably mad (all the benefit, none of the stress)
So Reaper are letting them in but for 50% more to grab vampire, or 20% more if they just want the added options...... The KS backers clearly got the best deal, and Reaper gets to sell more stuff to fans who may want in. Everybody comes off ahead
Also don't forget that the Kickstarter website became useless towards the end. So this would be a way to still get in, but with a penalty for trying to wait for the last minute.
Make sure you get to the original release for the sculpture and not the release for that material or packaging of the sculpture.
The skeletons are over a decade old - and sculpted by their accountant/owner (not that that makes it any more or less...just saying Ed isn't one of their front line sculptors). You can see them on page 28 of their 2000 Holiday Catalog:
I can't remember if the zombies are new new or new old off the top of my head though. There are a lot to keep track of. Some of it goes to the age, others are the preference of their customers. A lot of figure painters tend to prefer the portrait poses over something which is more active.
I get that, but the aging aspect I'm referring to is not necessarily the style or pose, as I understand that to be largely a matter of taste. What I'm referring to are features that I believe were due to casting limitations that no longer exist due to better technology and materials. The reason I chose these two examples were because they the zombie has the thumb on the left hand fused to the head and the shaft of the skeletons spears are fused to the base. From my limited knowledge I believe these types of things were typically done to reduce flexibility in thinner parts of the model to reduce casting errors or having the part break off after casting.
Just note I'm not complaining, as I like a mixture of styles. I just would have liked the dates so that I could more easily look at the development of the models and the modelers. I see miniature sculpting as an art so for me it's fun to follow an artist through different periods of their career.
So Reaper are letting them in but for 50% more to grab vampire, or 20% more if they just want the added options...... The KS backers clearly got the best deal, and Reaper gets to sell more stuff to fans who may want in. Everybody comes off ahead
And of course this higher cost option is still a VERY good deal...
Reaper is leveraging off of the kick starter. I wonder if established companies will start doing their own kickstarters in house to cut KS out of the loop (assuming they have robust servers).
So Reaper are letting them in but for 50% more to grab vampire, or 20% more if they just want the added options...... The KS backers clearly got the best deal, and Reaper gets to sell more stuff to fans who may want in. Everybody comes off ahead
And of course this higher cost option is still a VERY good deal...
Reaper is leveraging off of the kick starter. I wonder if established companies will start doing their own kickstarters in house to cut KS out of the loop (assuming they have robust servers).
Tim
This might be highly unlikely. Big site like Kickstarter brings in more pledgers and only cost 5% of the top. (+amazons percentage)
Compare to Tentacle Bento.
They had a good start at kickstarter with an end estimate of 200k+.
They got cancelled by kickstarter & started new campaign on their own site.
End result: almost 50k pledged.
This might be highly unlikely. Big site like Kickstarter brings in more pledgers and only cost 5% of the top. (+amazons percentage)
Compare to Tentacle Bento.
They had a good start at kickstarter with an end estimate of 200k+.
They got cancelled by kickstarter & started new campaign on their own site.
End result: almost 50k pledged.
That's 4 times less.
Good point, although a company with a much larger and broader fan base like Reaper might do well.
Unix wrote: Just note I'm not complaining, as I like a mixture of styles. I just would have liked the dates so that I could more easily look at the development of the models and the modelers. I see miniature sculpting as an art so for me it's fun to follow an artist through different periods of their career.
I agree, wasn't trying to jump on you for anything though. Just pointing out that the original release was a bit longer ago than 2007.
With Reaper, you can sort of time the release well enough with the SKU. Lower the number, the older the model. Also, they have back issues of their catalogs (Casket works) available on their website - so you can flip through the history of various sculptors that way too. Some have made some fairly significant improvements over the years. Worth having a look if you are into that sort of thing.
As far as people who didn't back (ie, someone who was not one of the 17,744 backers) they WILL be able to add new accounts at the pledge manager, but at a higher price than a backer paid - for example, a Vampire to them will be $150, and Options will be 20% Higher (Nethyrmaul will be $30, for example).
Tim
Not gonna lie, this bugs me.
Not gonna lie, doesn't bug me at all.
It's effects me no differently than if they put in their order before the kickstarter ended, and Reaper gets more money to make my stuff.
As far as people who didn't back (ie, someone who was not one of the 17,744 backers) they WILL be able to add new accounts at the pledge manager, but at a higher price than a backer paid - for example, a Vampire to them will be $150, and Options will be 20% Higher (Nethyrmaul will be $30, for example).
Tim
Not gonna lie, this bugs me.
Not gonna lie, doesn't bug me at all.
It's effects me no differently than if they put in their order before the kickstarter ended, and Reaper gets more money to make my stuff.
Doesn't bug me either. I mean we as backers during the KS still can up our pledges for additional stuff at origal low prices. Out of curiousity BlueDagger, why does it bug you? Did you not get in on the KS?
yeah and I believe that would be money that goes directly to reaper as kickstarter wouldnt get to take a cut....
I've heard that said before, but does anyone know that for certain? (I know you qualified that with "I believe", so I'm not picking on you).
suspect its so, I know I've already been charged for my $100 pledge by kickstarter so I figured that the reaper pledge manager would be handled by reaper outside of kick starter, but dont know for sure
So Reaper are letting them in but for 50% more to grab vampire, or 20% more if they just want the added options...... The KS backers clearly got the best deal, and Reaper gets to sell more stuff to fans who may want in. Everybody comes off ahead
And of course this higher cost option is still a VERY good deal...
Reaper is leveraging off of the kick starter. I wonder if established companies will start doing their own kickstarters in house to cut KS out of the loop (assuming they have robust servers).
Tim
This might be highly unlikely. Big site like Kickstarter brings in more pledgers and only cost 5% of the top. (+amazons percentage)
Compare to Tentacle Bento.
They had a good start at kickstarter with an end estimate of 200k+.
They got cancelled by kickstarter & started new campaign on their own site.
End result: almost 50k pledged.
That's 4 times less.
I agree. The reason a lot of KS's get a lot of money because...it's KS. So many people browse through all of the items and go "hey thats neat!" and pledge their money in.
As far as people who didn't back (ie, someone who was not one of the 17,744 backers) they WILL be able to add new accounts at the pledge manager, but at a higher price than a backer paid - for example, a Vampire to them will be $150, and Options will be 20% Higher (Nethyrmaul will be $30, for example).
Tim
Not gonna lie, this bugs me.
I completely understand why it would bug you to get a worse deal that someone who bought early, but I'm very glad they did it this way. I think those who put their money down to make it happen should get the best deal. Those who came late and didn't "support" the kickstarter get a good deal, but not quite as good.
Like most things in capitalism, those who get in early get the best deal. If everyone got the same deal, then next time a kickstarter happens more folks are going to hang back and wait til it's over to commit, and that's not good for anyone running a kickstarter.
Project Update #62: Newbies Only!
Posted by Reaper Miniatures
OK, this link is for newbies only!!!
If you missed the Kickstarter and want to get involved, go enter in the e-mail you would like us to contact when the post KS Reaper pledge manager goes live.
Reaper has updated with their Cloud Giantess Sculpt;
From the awesome 2-D design of Talin to the amazing 3-D of Patrick Keith comes the finished Cloud Giant. She could be a Giant or a Goddess in your next game!
I'm quite happy with the translation from the concept art, well done!
That is indeed a very awesome cloud giantess! Her eyes don't look as wily as they do in the finished render (whatever it's called). Her eyes look a little to small/squinty to be able to paint in that wily/mischevious factor. Her smile isn't as wily/mischevious factor either....maybe it's because the face is a little puffy compared to the art. OTT the mini is pretty damn awesome and thank you for hooking us up.
ChaoticMind wrote: Yay! They fixed the gouge in her hip!
She still looks like a 54 mm scale human or elf but still a great sculpt.
Fits with what she is supposed to look like - though to be fair...in her bent state she is over 3" tall (the two marks on the side of the picture are at the 1/2" and 1" points. So, that would make her...80 or 90 mm standing upright.
Cloud/storm giants looked like Greek/Roman humans...only bigger.
Cloud giants have muscular human builds and handsome, well-defined features. Storm giants resemble well-formed humans of gargantuan proportions.
The hair clip (whatever you want to call it) is a bit on the chunky side. I can't see how it would have anything to do with any of the materials though (metal or Bones) - it is bigger by a good bit than shields used for a lot of their other figures. Looks as though it is separate on the metal version though...so it should be easily enough removed from the Bones one and either something more in scale or just plain hair to cover the spot it used to be. I really like that club though, and can see it getting used in a few different places already (even the figure sculpted in the club looks to be a touch larger than a regular 28 mm figure).
Still stress testing the RPM (after how badly Cthulhu killed KS...they likely want to ensure it is rock solid) and all that...however for the people who were interested in the "In Sourcing" side of the Reaper project, Reaper Bryan had posted this:
On the "bringing production in house" front, we're making excellent progress on securing the equipment, and are bringing in a contractor soon to begin making modifications to the building to accommodate it.
The detail capable in this bones stuff is very promising. One thing I asked on the KS page but don't think I got a response to was if this could be considered the "First" concept to model in the bones range.
IE - Is this the first example of what we can expect to see when something has been created specifically for bones. I believe the current range is re-purposed older metals.
If that is the case, then I can't wait to see how it matures once the sculptors get a handle on how the greens will translate over to bones and really start pushing the material.
I mean, just look at those lion clasps and the other detailing around the armour. If you told me that was a rubbery plastic out of the blue I wouldn't believe you.
I'm not sure this is bones, rather a painted prototype probably a resin master of the sort that will then be sent to china to be turned into a bones figure
Surloch wrote: The detail capable in this bones stuff is very promising. One thing I asked on the KS page but don't think I got a response to was if this could be considered the "First" concept to model in the bones range.
IE - Is this the first example of what we can expect to see when something has been created specifically for bones. I believe the current range is re-purposed older metals.
If that is the case, then I can't wait to see how it matures once the sculptors get a handle on how the greens will translate over to bones and really start pushing the material.
I mean, just look at those lion clasps and the other detailing around the armour. If you told me that was a rubbery plastic out of the blue I wouldn't believe you.
I believe there are a few sculpted for bones figures kicking around. A female human wizard by Klocke and a male human wizard by bobby jackson. They showed up as previews in march or so iirc.
Surloch wrote: The detail capable in this bones stuff is very promising. One thing I asked on the KS page but don't think I got a response to was if this could be considered the "First" concept to model in the bones range.
IE - Is this the first example of what we can expect to see when something has been created specifically for bones. I believe the current range is re-purposed older metals.
If that is the case, then I can't wait to see how it matures once the sculptors get a handle on how the greens will translate over to bones and really start pushing the material.
I mean, just look at those lion clasps and the other detailing around the armour. If you told me that was a rubbery plastic out of the blue I wouldn't believe you.
Whether its a green or a bones figure I have plenty of the bones figures and they are packed with detail.. They are rubbery plastic thats for sure, but for the amount of money they cost makes them a wonderful buy..
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: I'm not sure this is bones, rather a painted prototype probably a resin master of the sort that will then be sent to china to be turned into a bones figure
I imagine they'll be mastering them for Metal and Resin as well. Because why would you not?
poda_t wrote: wow. the flaming characters look absolutely stunning. They've got me tempted to buy another pair to paint up.
They DO look great especially the flames on the Large Elemental !! I think the twist in the pose of the sculpt makes it much more dynamic and menacing than the KS artwork.
And no painting required ... these will be cast in translucent red/orange resin.
And no painting required ... these will be cast in translucent red/orange resin.
specifically why i want to order a second one. So I CAN paint it.
Ah, I get it ...
It does look like a fun model to paint. But, for me, I'll focus on the other 200+ Bones before I even think about painting these. Then again, a little wash and thin highlight might be a nice touch ...
Post KS Reaper Pledge Manager info & More Sculptures
Update #67 · Sep. 21, 2012 · 10 comments
If all goes well, it looks like we will be publishing the RPM by the end of next week, if not sooner. Get yourselves ready! I know, like you haven’t been prepared for weeks now, right? The system is about done and ready for us to test for a day or two and make sure it won’t break when you use it.
We’re sorry it took us so long, but the volume of backers and the complicated nature of our Kickstarter was more than we had originally anticipated. Like with most things, you do your best to think of everything and then you have to make changes on the fly when a problem rears it’s ugly head, like the International shipping issues we did not foresee.
Please note that due to the delay, the pledge manager will only be active for placing your final reward selections for about 10 days. You will be able to change your shipping address at any time, but you will have to lock in your order within 10 days. We need to get our final numbers as rapidly as possible so we can get everything finalized by next March like we planned.
Anyone that misses the deadline we will handle on a case by case basis. Don’t worry we won’t leave you in the cold, but we do ask that you do your best to complete your requests within the time frame allotted to save us gobs of trouble.
Just so you know we are not slouches here at Reaper. We have started casting up the Sophie models and started bottling paint so we can start shipping as soon as we have some information to ship against. So, we should be able to get a significant portion of the first shipments out this month as we planned. We are sure things will probably bleed over a bit into October, but we won’t be too far behind schedule!
Also, here are a few more original sculptures for some of the minis that were just concept art.
The lizardmen look pretty cool - I like them much more than their concept art made me think I would.
As to the storm giant... I am trying to decide whether I like his head and its positioning or not... it seems too low and small. The rest of the model looks pretty cool though.
SilverMK2 wrote: The lizardmen look pretty cool - I like them much more than their concept art made me think I would.
As to the storm giant... I am trying to decide whether I like his head and its positioning or not... it seems too low and small. The rest of the model looks pretty cool though.
Best thing to ask yourself is "Does he look good for the ~50 cents he cost me?" lolol
Good deal them getting the RPM up and running. Can't wait to fire it up. Now that the initial spend is forgotten I may drop a couple more bills into cheap minis. Yum!
BlueDagger wrote:
Best thing to ask yourself is "Does he look good for the ~50 cents he cost me?" lolol
I agree to a point, but if measuring my expectations by the 50 cents I'm paying there are lots of batches of figs I can pick up for around .5 to 1 buck each that will be more than a good deal. I hold reaper to a higher level than that. Luckily there isn't a fig in the batch that seems subpar to me. There are some who are a bit older in style, but none of them look bad to me.
General Seric wrote:Reaper posted 2 new sculpts:
Really glad that the female paladin was one of my picks in our club's split of the Vampire deal. Looks like a very nice figure in a very modern style of sculpt.
I wish that I had skipped the Mantic KS and just gone with this one. Now I have both and need to offload a bunch of Mantic stuff. (Primarily using all of this for D&D minis.)
Either way, the greens have been great and I can't wait until I get these.
For anyone (like my self) who was wondering who Constance Blaize is...
Constance Blaize from Privateer Press
Trista, female Warrior from Reaper
Definitely alot of similarities. Almost like a younger version of the same charachter
Looking at the selection of KS figs, It seems there are alot of miniatures that are a bit PP'ish in their styling. I don't know exactly how to describe it, but the boldness of detail and facial styles seem similar to me. I don't play any PP games, but I wouldn't be surprised if alot of folks who do see proxy possibilities.
Eilif wrote: Looking at the selection of KS figs, It seems there are alot of miniatures that are a bit PP'ish in their styling. I don't know exactly how to describe it, but the boldness of detail and facial styles seem similar to me. I don't play any PP games, but I wouldn't be surprised if alot of folks who do see proxy possibilities.
The similarities can also be due to the sculptor. I know of at least one sculptor who has done work for both Reaper and Privateer Press (Werner Klocke). I'm sure there are others. PP used to list the name of the sculptor for each model in their gallery, but it looks like they don't do that anymore.
Eilif wrote: Looking at the selection of KS figs, It seems there are alot of miniatures that are a bit PP'ish in their styling. I don't know exactly how to describe it, but the boldness of detail and facial styles seem similar to me. I don't play any PP games, but I wouldn't be surprised if alot of folks who do see proxy possibilities.
The similarities can also be due to the sculptor. I know of at least one sculptor who has done work for both Reaper and Privateer Press (Werner Klocke). I'm sure there are others. PP used to list the name of the sculptor for each model in their gallery, but it looks like they don't do that anymore.
Patrick Keith (the sculptor of Trista above, as well as the guy behind Bombshell Games) has worked on some PP stuff before, but I don't think he worked on Constance. I had seen a green of her, but can't seem to find it at the moment... But there does seem to be a lot of cross-polination with sculptors. Patrick does a lot of work for Reaper as well.
Would it be too weird if I preferred the reaper version?
The PP version is very nice and there's no denying the talent of the sculptor. However, the 40k'ish shoulder pads and the covering of every conceivable surface with filigree is not to my taste.
Not that I'm surprised, this does seem to be the way that GW and PP are heading these days.
Those two don't look all that similar in their details. The broad strokes sure: female, plate armor, sword + shield. Other than that, I just don't see why the comparison was made.
I think the comparison was pointing out that the Reaper model makes a great cheaper proxy. Also, stylistically, it is easy to see why someone would prefer the Reaper offering. While both are excellent sculpts, the PP is way overdone with the enormous shoulder pads, ribbons blowing everywhere, oversized bludgeoning blade, etc. IMHO, PP sculpts have almost become self caricatures with the beyond cartoony pads, weapons and undersized jack legs / oversized beast hands that seem to typify their style. Kind of like GW and skulls/ bald screaming men.
Does reaper actually make any games to go with their models? If so are the games any good? I know they supply models for people to use in various games and such but I was wondering if they made any specific models for actuall tabletop games.
Ascalam wrote: I think they have one, but can't mentally place the name.
Wasn't a PDF of a game system part of the stretch goals ?
'Their' game would be warlord (they have two others, but that's the fantasy one).
the game system you're thinking of is swords and wizardry, AFAIK an AD&D type 'nostalgia' system.
Back when they started, they actually had pretty good sized pads that were on par with armor.
If anything on that reaper one, I would grind that one down and add in a WFB shoulderpad, or work one out with some greenstuff to make it a little more "Armor" and not just something pretty.
WIth that PP Out of scale one, she's going to get her head crushed if she tries to swing that weapon. ( Not that she can handle that weapon in the first place.)
I'm not sure how the topic shifted to Constance Blaize but as someone who owns her I can offer some insight to her shoulder protection. She has fairly normal shoulder pauldrons for the precursor knights with only more detail. The problem is that she is rather small and the normal precursors are large.
It is a case of a realistically scaled 28mm model wearing a heroic scale 32mm model's shoulder pads.
I like the reaper paladin, but Constance has some unbelievable detail in person. She might make a great alternate precursor officer if you swapped that sword for a mace.
Grot 6 wrote: Why are those shoulderpads growing like that?
I wonder if shoulder pads come and go in fantasy and Sci-Fi miniatures like fashion?
A rough timeline:
-Back in RT, the SM shoulder pads were fairly large.
-Then in 2nd edition they got bigger.
-Heartbreaker/Target games got in on the fun by putting HUGE shoulder pads all over their Warzone (SciFi) and Chronopia (Fantasy) games' figures.
-The pendulum swung back a bit with the shoulder pads shrinking a bit through Void and then Urban War and nearly disappearing entirely in games like Infinity.
-Now with the ascendancy of PP, Shoulder pads are coming back bigger and more common and GW marine shoulders seem to be getting more ornamental!
Some other tidbits of general interest for those who are disinterested though,
Moving Production to Texas Update:
We’re making good progress moving Bones production to Texas. We’ve picked out a beastly beauty of an injection machine, but we have to wait for the final quote for this round of production from China before we can know if we have enough cash left over to cover all the initial bells and whistles. It’ll be awhile before we’re going full swing, but we’re getting there.
Did you know it takes around 3 or 4 months just to get the machine delivered for installation after you purchase it? Apparently, they build them to order and don’t have an inventory just sitting around -- go figure! (...how many do they sell a year, I wonder? Not many I bet.)
The links are going out now - apparently 2000 at a time spaced out every couple hours. If you haven't gotten one already, you should be getting one soon.
..... did anyone ever purchase a case fro mreaper? I'd like to buy a few to have a place to store this bloody horde, but not knowing whether the case is reliable or suitable (or, rather, the foam trays inside the case), I'm not sure if I want to throw $50 down the drain
bah, disregard that, with an extra 200 odd models to have to hide somewhere, there's bound to be more than enough that will fit the box.
Did anyone else notice that the prices for the add-ons seem to have crept up by a few dollars? Bit cheeky for those of us who budgeted for a certain amount and now will owe Reaper money to get what we planned for.....
Dropped Sophie for the Frost Wyrm and Hydra, as planned. Also added the Deep Ones (already included in my Pledge amount) and then added the figure case (so I've got somewhere to put all my Bones) and the Spider Centaurs because they're so cool.
I not only kept my KS Sophie, but I also went for the Sophie collection. Picked up all of the addons except for the "There be Dragons." I'm already getting all the other dragons, so I decided to drop that addon.
WarOne wrote: I was very tempted to do a second Vampire level, but I think I've done enough damage as it is.
Vampire x1 $100
Kaladrax Reborn x1 $10
Frost Giants x1 $10
Ebonwrath x1 $10
Fire Giants x1 $10
There Be Dragons x1 $15
Demons x1 $15
Deathsleet x1 $10
Undead Giant x1 $10
Clockwork Dragon x1 $15
Red Dragon x1 $10
Spider Centaurs x1 $10
Frost Wyrm x1 $10
Nethyrmaul x1 $25
Deep Dwellers x1 $7
Swamp Things x1 $5
Hydra x1 $15
Golems x1 $
Owlbear x1 $3
Griffon x1 $4
Fire Giant Warriors x1 $10
Forces Of Nature x1 $15
Fire It Up! x1 $5
Haunts x1 $6
Storm Giants x1 $10
Mind Your Manors x1 $10
Orcapocalypse x1 $25
That looks a lot like mine ...
EXCEPT I added all the paints and 2 figure cases.
DOH !!!! I failed my Will Save just like my wife does at a shoe store sale ...
Regular Vampire Level
Kept my Sophie (I don't mind a hot demon chick on a bike )
Cthulhu (In his house at R'lyeh, dead Cthulhu waits dreaming. Kaladrax Reborn
Clockwork Dragon
only spent 35 bucks more than my pledge... I think I am getting enough minis lol
Oddly enough...it would seem people do care. That is why you have various Apps and what not for smart phones that allow you to make instant posts to Facebook that say "Hey, look what I just bought"
I don't care - but I don't fault people who enjoy sharing. That is what the scroll bar is made for...just zoom on past them.
I'm proud of my restraint for sticking to my original pledge. I can't wait to see some new sculpted realizations of the concept art, especially the nethyrmaul.
Oddly enough...it would seem people do care. That is why you have various Apps and what not for smart phones that allow you to make instant posts to Facebook that say "Hey, look what I just bought"
I don't care - but I don't fault people who enjoy sharing. That is what the scroll bar is made for...just zoom on past them.
Yeah, I don't personally care either, but there are enough people posting/sharing what they got that obviously some people do. I just skip those posts I'm not interested in.
I'm waiting for my payday in 2 days to go into the PM and finalise my stuff. Too many bloody Kickstarters!
It displayed funny in the confirmation e-mail, but I dropped Sophie to cover international shipping. All of the add-ons fit into an existing fantasy army, but I lost $1 somewhere. Still, for the number of minis I am getting, I think I can afford it.
There's been a post from Reaper President Ed Pugh over on the Reaper forums addressing the issue of the delayed paint shipment for interational backers, and apologising
and the cause is one I never thought of.... An inability to source 300,000 paint bottles in time....
Quote:
Posted Today, 06:51 PM
Greetings everyone~
This thread was brought to my attention this morning and since I am the cause of this event it is only appropriate that I address this matter myself. For those who do not know me I am the President here at Reaper. Currently my full time job is planning, organizing and supplying the pieces to fulfill the Kickstarter.
As we all already know, in the last 3 days the KS ramped up from an unbelievable 1.5mil and 7,000 people to a staggering 3.5 mil and 17,000. There are worse problems to have, but it has created a logistics nightmare that I am working through.
My job is to have everything promised in the KS into everyone's hands during, or before, March 2013. To make this result happen I have already had to make several decisions. Some are simple decisions, like hold everything up for two weeks so a sculptor can send something in that was already past due, or substitute two existing models into the KS and keep everything on track. I chose to keep everything on track. Other decisions were not as easy. Like holding up international orders and consolidating them into one shipment.
The reason for this decision was not one of "losing money." For once in Reaper's history that is not the problem, but I do understand the obvious assumption here. The problem at the moment is paint bottles. For the KS we expected to need to produce 100,000. We confirmed the amount was available from the supplier and moved on. The reality is 300,000 bottles of paint are needed and I won't even get the last part of the shipment until Nov 5th. Then it still needs to be produced, pumped, packed etc.
AT THE MOMENT the plan is to ship domestic what I have. (First shipment) Then combine first and second shipments for international backers. I am researching shipping figure cases and Sophies for international backers, but I still do not have final data pending the end of the Reaper Pledge Manager period.
While I stand by my decisions, I will say I seriously dropped the ball by not keeping everyone abreast of the current situations. My tunnel vision of solving the problems blinded my to the equally important matter of communicating with everyone involved and for that I sincerely apologize to you.
Now with all that said I want to add that we are now, and have always been, a customer service oriented company. We have never denied or disputed a credit card transaction when the customer has changed their mind for any reason. If you, GentleGiant, or anyone are not satisfied and want out, please email Matt@Reapermini.com and he will make it happen.
If all of your stuff is available in the first wave (and you didn't order paints), then I didn't read anything in that email that said your stuff would come later than ours...
A supply issue like that isn't a minor one, and while reaper is better suited to handle a blown up KS than a true start up, it's not like you can just imagine 200,000 paint bottles.
And giving the option for a refund is super classy. I'd be shocked if even 5% of supporters take that option.
Admittedly, it sucks for the RoW, but somebody was going to wait. And, for shipping purposes, it's a substantial, discrete block of orders that wont' get mixed up.
kronk wrote: If all of your stuff is available in the first wave (and you didn't order paints), then I didn't read anything in that email that said your stuff would come later than ours...
It seemed like there were a number of products where they had not ordered in enough supplies (such as figure cases) and so RoW backers with those items would not be getting them until the second wave of dispatches.
However, it was not entirely clear (to me anyway) whether RoW backers would be generally consigned to the second wave regardless of what they ordered, with priority being given to US backers for all items (including regular KS figures) and RoW backers only getting items once all US backers had been supplied.
I thought that they were implying all RoW was going to be shipped later as that meant they didn't have to split them and could figure out actual shipping costs as well.
The paints and cases just added more issues to this.
To stay on track I wanted to push another update to everyone today.
To continue you from my last update:
Production in China is on track and hopefully we will post photos very soon.
We are preparing the first shipment and it is on track to begin next week and continue until completed.
The first shipment will include Sophie Models, caps, t-shirts, ReaperCon Sophie Model sets, Crown Jewels and both book downloads.
We have received paint bottles and dropper tips but are still waiting on caps. Paint production has continued and pumping will begin as soon as caps arrive.
We are working very hard here and everyone thanks you for your patience!
I'm so pissed I had to scale my pledge back, especially seeing that Cthulhu....... I basically had to drop it down to $75 and I rushed to get it in before the 'deadline' then it was still up for like a week more. Didn't get my cthulhu or dragons o anything, just vampire with no sophie.
General Seric wrote: Not sure about Cthulhu, the upper body and upper arms look oddly thin, but it might be the angle...
Cthulhu is always described as "misshapen" in the stores. Most artist take this to mean that his proportions should never really look that "correct" anyway.
To me it looks like reaper went with a mix of some of the older interpretations of cthulhu, along with some of the more modern ones. A pretty interesting interpretation IMHO. I think the worst you can say about it is that the pose is atlittle static.
General Seric wrote: Not sure about Cthulhu, the upper body and upper arms look oddly thin, but it might be the angle...
Cthulhu is always described as "misshapen" in the stores. Most artist take this to mean that his proportions should never really look that "correct" anyway.
To me it looks like reaper went with a mix of some of the older interpretations of cthulhu, along with some of the more modern ones. A pretty interesting interpretation IMHO. I think the worst you can say about it is that the pose is atlittle static.
He is described as "mountainous" and "gelatinous", but I don't see him called "misshapen".
Anyway, if the angle is not just making it look this way, I think it looks a little cartoony with the thin upper arms and small torso. I hope it is just the angle, because the rest of the sculpt is great (I especially like the head), and I would hate to see funny proportions ruin the sculpt (for me, at least, though I should be able to fix him by bulking him up with greenstuff if it is the case).
General Seric wrote: Not sure about Cthulhu, the upper body and upper arms look oddly thin, but it might be the angle...
Cthulhu is always described as "misshapen" in the stores. Most artist take this to mean that his proportions should never really look that "correct" anyway.
To me it looks like reaper went with a mix of some of the older interpretations of cthulhu, along with some of the more modern ones. A pretty interesting interpretation IMHO. I think the worst you can say about it is that the pose is atlittle static.
He is described as "mountainous" and "gelatinous", but I don't see him called "misshapen".
Anyway, if the angle is not just making it look this way, I think it looks a little cartoony with the thin upper arms and small torso. I hope it is just the angle, because the rest of the sculpt is great (I especially like the head), and I would hate to see funny proportions ruin the sculpt (for me, at least, though I should be able to fix him by bulking him up with greenstuff if it is the case).
I recall the statue of Cthulhu being described as haveing the body of a misshapened man. If I'm not remembering correctly that is fine, I will admit if I'm wrong.
Also. You could always make him look like the most awesome Cthulhu ever seen in a cartoon. =P
General Seric wrote: Not sure about Cthulhu, the upper body and upper arms look oddly thin, but it might be the angle...
Cthulhu is always described as "misshapen" in the stores. Most artist take this to mean that his proportions should never really look that "correct" anyway.
To me it looks like reaper went with a mix of some of the older interpretations of cthulhu, along with some of the more modern ones. A pretty interesting interpretation IMHO. I think the worst you can say about it is that the pose is atlittle static.
He is described as "mountainous" and "gelatinous", but I don't see him called "misshapen".
Anyway, if the angle is not just making it look this way, I think it looks a little cartoony with the thin upper arms and small torso. I hope it is just the angle, because the rest of the sculpt is great (I especially like the head), and I would hate to see funny proportions ruin the sculpt (for me, at least, though I should be able to fix him by bulking him up with greenstuff if it is the case).
I recall the statue of Cthulhu being described as haveing the body of a misshapened man. If I'm not remembering correctly that is fine, I will admit if I'm wrong.
Also. You could always make him look like the most awesome Cthulhu ever seen in a cartoon. =P
Found the main description of the statue, it is described as of "bloated corpulence" and of "vaguely anthropoid outline", but not as a "misshapen man" (by the way, I am not looking all this up because I have a need to be proven right, your post just made me curious if I was not remembering "The Call of Cthulhu" all that well, if I came off this way, sorry)
Anyway, I am not opposed to him being bloated, I just would like his torso and upper arms to be a little more bloated.
For an accurate reproduction of a literary godling that is only vaguely described? Not bad at all.
The head is outstanding and the hands and feet look really good.
It has some oddities- primarily the legs, stance, ventral line and proportions. However, the flabby belly will be great with some pale skin and veining or some scales/barnacle/etc. can be sculpted on (HPL's crude sketch of the Cthulhu statuette, for example, indicates greater overall scaliness or texture). The ventral line is... odd. It looks like a large scar and I am not sure what the sculptor was going for. (I don't want to speculate on how much this might be a subtle feminine anatomical reference they ties in with some of HPL's seeming issues and phobias....) The draconian legs also look dangerously close to to some of the more toy like dinosaurs with some very odd skin folds on the upper thigh.
Overall, I like the effect more than the SOTA Cthulhu and see it as comparable to the WizKids one. I am glad they didn't go for the steroids Cthulhu and give it a B+ overall and would rate it an amazing value.
I will definitely be getting one and spending alot of time airbrushing and detailing it.
Just got word on the Song of Blades Yahoo group that Reaper gave Ganesha Games (Publisher of Song of Blades and Heroes) permission to publish stats for the Bones Kickstarter figs.
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/songofblades/message/20755 As I understand it, Andrea (the owner) is a bit busy right now and it will probably be a collaborative with SBH fans, but it looks like well before the shipping of the Kickstarter figs there will be a PDF with stats for the Kickstarter figs in Song of Blades and Heroes!
The answer to that question is no. I know some Kickstarters were taking pledges for those who had just missed the deadline (because the server was slow), but this one has been over for a long time.
Orlando is correct. I did it. It's $150 for vampire level, but you can drop the vampire biker chick and regain $25. So basically it's $125 with shipping for the vampire level minus the biker chick, or $150 with the biker chick. Quite the deal still.
We’ve finish casting all of the 1000s of Sophie models and we have received the ball caps and T-shirts from our vendor so this week we will be starting the shipping of these items, including shippable Crown Jewel rewards. Things will be showing up at your doorstep soon!
We are on schedule still to start shipping everything else next March.
We’ve added the ability to add special characters to your address. If you need to make changes to your address like using cyrillic, please go back to the Post Kickstarter Reaper Pledge Manager and make sure your mailing address is correct. For your security and protection your original log-in tokens are expiring, so when you log-in again you will get a new log-in link sent to the email address you have on record with us.
The PDF downloads are now available at the Post Kickstarter Reaper pledge manager. If you log back into the RMP your success page will now have the download links for you.
and finally, it’s not the greatest picture as we didn’t take it, but you’ll get the idea.
The neck is a lot chunkier than I thought it would be - just hoping it is hollow so I can cut out between the ribs (assuming that would be possible once I have seen the model ).
Unlikely, the way i read it was that the full retail value of EVERYTHING in the vampire pledge level would be 500+. That dragon alone would only b e a fraction of that...though if memory serves that was an Add On anyway for around $10-20 bucks so I would expect it to be $50-$80.
Bones are running at about a third of the retail of an equivalent reaper metal model. All their big box dragons and the like are still quite affordable in metal, so I'd expect the hugest bones models to still be $50-$75 or even less.
This guy is a foot tall with 16" wingspan in metal and he's $99:
PFFF, If i buy one of those 50$ models for RPG's my PCs will start getting ticked at why every boss os a skeleton dragon.
I paid for it, i use it.
But still a good model.
hotsauceman1 wrote: PFFF, If i buy one of those 50$ models for RPG's my PCs will start getting ticked at why every boss os a skeleton dragon.
I paid for it, i use it.
But still a good model.
I've been dming for a few years now, and my players have come to call my Tiefling Skeleton minis from WoTC after they fought an NPC named Aisha in the Skinsaw Murders Pathfinder adventure... Later in that same adventure, a doppelganger type monster was disguised as a living version of Aisha, and without thinking about it I placed down the same Tiefling Skeleton for Aisha...
So now, whenever we see the Tiefling Skeleton on the board, one of my players asks, "Is that AIsha? What's she doing here?"
I would probably use the giant undead dragon for everything too
SilverMK2 wrote: The neck is a lot chunkier than I thought it would be - just hoping it is hollow so I can cut out between the ribs (assuming that would be possible once I have seen the model ).
Even if there is not alot of spaces, the in between can be left black to mimic the effect or, alternately, be painted glowing for a more supernatural effect. As to the chunkiness, most skeletal models are disproportionately thick. Otherwise, they would be slender and fragile which can cause serious practical issues (see the WGF skeletons). I think this looks like an effective compromise.
As to price, the Bones minis seem ultra affordable. I imagine that the minis probably wouldn't be more than double the KS cost. The Vampire deal is good if you can use or split it, but I only want a handful of the minis (several of which aren't even done) so not ponying up that kind of cash. I would prefer to see the final sculpts and spread out the purchases.
I suspect that shortly after the models ship you will be able to find lots of them on eBay and in the Swap Shop, as almost everyone wanted far fewer than they actually will get. Of course, we may all want the same stuff...
Im so happy i got this kickstarter. At the end i will pay aproximately 5 times what i inteded to pay (conversion rate of dollar, taxes and obviously the impulse add-ons.
But man, it will worth it.
The future seen so 3D for my RPG games in the future...
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:We got another green!
One of the pair of fire giant warriors
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Nice! I added those to my order as an afterthought since I had already picked the Fire Giants (royalty). Now I'm really glad I did. The four of them would make quite a formidable warband for song of blades and heroes.
Wehrkind wrote:I suspect that shortly after the models ship you will be able to find lots of them on eBay and in the Swap Shop, as almost everyone wanted far fewer than they actually will get. Of course, we may all want the same stuff...
Yeah, it will be quite interesting to see. Of course there will be a glut of some models that will drag down prices for a while. However, if some of the bones aren't released to the general public at exactly the same point as the kickstarter packs are delivered, I'm sure we'll see a few popular figs that may even fetch quite a bit more than retail until they appear in stores.
I didn't get any of the dragons, because dragons really aren't my 'thing', but they are quite impressive and way bigger than I thought they'd be. I have high hopes for my Frostwyrm and Hydra!
Fit? Anything big and nurgle would work. For comedy option, use it as replacement for new CSM dragon. It got wings you see
Isn't that funny,those two are the WORST, UGLIEST Cthulhu sculpts ever.
In my opinon.
The thing is, people base the look of Cthulhu on the statue, which is a caricature of the real thing,
When he rises from the sunken city of R'Lyeh, he is NOT described, except as "gelatinous green"
But the wings being described as "vestigial" is clearly ONLY in relation to the statue.
Quite frankly, I am very disappointed by the sculpt, I think the concept art was better.
Fit? Anything big and nurgle would work. For comedy option, use it as replacement for new CSM dragon. It got wings you see
Isn't that funny,those two are the WORST, UGLIEST Cthulhu sculpts ever.
In my opinon.
The thing is, people base the look of Cthulhu on the statue, which is a caricature of the real thing,
When he rises from the sunken city of R'Lyeh, he is NOT described, except as "gelatinous green"
But the wings being described as "vestigial" is clearly ONLY in relation to the statue.
Quite frankly, I am very disappointed by the sculpt, I think the concept art was better.
What other Cthulhu sculpts are there?
Anyway, that is all he is described as right at the opening of the cavernous portal, but parts of him are described during Johansen's flight.
He is described as an "eldritch contradiction of all matter, force, and cosmic order", but his form is elaborated later on. He has "Flabby claws", and more importantly, he is described as having a "awful squid-head with writhing feelers".
Though the description is still quite sparse, the resemblance of the description of Cthulhu's head and that of the statue's make me think Lovecraft meant the statue to be more similar to Cthulhu than a caricature.
timd wrote: Picked up this dragon and the big undead one with plans of converting them to Nurgle Heldrakes.
Looks like you're gonna be throwing down some big targets.
Quite possibly, but won't know until the Bones models show up. If size is a big problem, the dragons are likely to get chopped up and downsized a bit...
Wow! The XL dragons certainly are big. Actually makes me glad that I only added one large'ish creature (ebonwrath).
I've got enough trouble finding space to store terrain that gets pretty frequent use. I'm not one to decorate my home with gaming items and don't know where I'd store a few huge dragons that will likely never see the top side of a gaming table.
Sure do look cool though...
I wonder if they'd sell the base of the skelly dragon separately as a piece of scenery? Now that I could use.
Kaladrax is going back to the sculptor for a few tweeks to make it even more awesome (the prototype was so good they felt they had to show it to us as a WIP which is very unusual for reaper)
1. the mouth will be open not closed as it is now (it's easier for a modeler to close an open mouth if they want to)
2. The 'fill' in the neck and chest (needed for casting strength) will be jazzed up with rotting organs/skin/muscle etc for a better undead dragon vibe
two changes that will make an awesome huge undead dragon into and even awesome-er undead dragon
Everything is becoming clearer!
Update #78 · Nov. 30, 2012 · 52 comments
If you are a domestic backer, and you didn’t option for a combined shipment, you should already have your Sophie models, t-shirts and caps by now. There may be a few of you in very outlying areas that may still be in transit, but for the most part they should have all been delivered by now.
It looks like we are still on schedule to ship everyone’s Bones (along with everything else) in March of 2013 as planned. We’ve gotten about 2/3s of the prototype castings and they are all looking great. We are hoping we can post pictures of the complete Vampire Level very soon with the extras options to come a bit later. We are feverishly pumping lots of paint now getting ready for that part of the rewards. And, we are waiting for the foam inserts to start show up so we can start stuffing the miniature cases. We’ve got all of the case on-hand now, it’s just waiting for the foam to be finished up and sent to us.
In the meantime, here’s something interesting for you...
I wonder how they look in person though. I'm sure the detail is there. But do they look cool in the translucent, or will they look better painted. I know the painted large fire elemental on the reaper site looks fantastic.
Either way they will be at the end of the to paint list when the miniatures finally arrive as they are at least useable.
Honestly, now that I look, I'm not sure any of it is limited to the kickstarter. Which is great, really, means they really treated it as a way of enlarging the line, not as a store.
I think Sophie is technically limited, but past years OOP LTD sophies regularly show up in promotions like their days of christmas sales.
I do think though that there will be alot of bones on ebay for a while, and if Reaper doesn't release all the bones at once and instead releases them in phases, a few choice models might become momentarily valuable.
Canadian Backers Please Read - Shipment Update
Update #79 · Dec. 04, 2012 · 20 comments
Last week, we announced that domestic backers who did not combine shipments should have received their Sophie models.
There was a problem with all of the Canadian orders in how we initially processed them and we have now gotten them all back. So in order to get your Sophie models to you as fast as possible, we have changed plans and are shipping them all directly to you via US First Class Mail. This applies ONLY to Canadian backers that are being shipped 1-4 items and did not combine shipments.
Some of your orders are fairly large, 3 or 4 boxed sets, etc., and these orders are being fulfilled through our Canadian partner. To repeat, this means that if you pledged for 5 or more items, your shipment will take slightly longer than others.
We apologize for this delay and we appreciate and thank you for your continued support.
With each update, I am more and more pleased with my investment. Annoyed that they used my email for pimping another company, but I got a nice apology.
Bigger picture of the head with a knight for scale.
With each update, I am more and more pleased with my investment. Annoyed that they used my email for pimping another company, but I got a nice apology.
Sort of a reciprocity thing, Paizo pimped the hell out of Reaper's kickstarter via email - if you look at kicktraq you can see the big jump each day they sent out an email about the Bones.
I *think* I went in for a minimum of two of everything. 3x Vampire, plus at least 2 of each extra. Got a couple extras of some of the dragons to airbrush and give as gifts. Where the hell am I gonna store it all?
scipio.au wrote: I *think* I went in for a minimum of two of everything. 3x Vampire, plus at least 2 of each extra. Got a couple extras of some of the dragons to airbrush and give as gifts. Where the hell am I gonna store it all?
Or similar than I did on the mini's lol. Might have to start planning now actually on how I'm going to fit it all somewhere...anyone have any good links for bulk storage? Maybe rent a u-haul or shipping container?
I'd like to see another angle, but something looks really off about his proportions.
And yes, sarcastic nitpickers, I DO mean that the proportions don't match those of REAL LIFE undead dragons. Because that's the ONLY WAY someone could ever complain about a dragon that could swallow its own ribcage.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: I'd like to see another angle, but something looks really off about his proportions.
And yes, sarcastic nitpickers, I DO mean that the proportions don't match those of REAL LIFE undead dragons. Because that's the ONLY WAY someone could ever complain about a dragon that could swallow its own ribcage.
The neck and head do seem large compared to the dragon's body. I'd suggest beefing up the body and tail to the bust's proportions, but it could just be the rotted flesh that's throwing perception off - if not the camera angle as you suggested.
).
