Brother SRM wrote: 10 marines do fit in a Rhino (albeit very tightly) if they're not on bases.
They really don't. I have a half-built cutaway rhino that I started for a painting comp a few years back and had to abandon when it became evident that it wouldn't work. The interior of the current rhino is just too short.
There was a blog article years ago that showed 10 marines mdelled into an old-style rhino, but it was done using Landspeeder crew with no backpacks.
I wonder if the original Space Marine models could fit in the original Rhino and the Space Marines (particularly the shoulder pads) have grown more than the Rhino.
Now i know its hearsay but i did hear part of the Astra Militariumiumum issue was because Star Wars was flexing its own IP muscles back at GW, which, despite the loss of one of my fav names for Warhammer, would be worth it if it was true to see GW crushed by the actual big fish of entertainment (queue image of titan sized Mickey stomping on thousands of guardsman and shouting blood for the mouse god!)
The hammer on the side seams to be the same as the baneblade kit, and so do the headlights.
As for Ogryn transport, maybe the alternate build is open top sothey don't get clausterphobic. Then this really could be turned into an old farm truck with some wheels.
Theophony wrote: As for Ogryn transport, maybe the alternate build is open top sothey don't get clausterphobic. Then this really could be turned into an old farm truck with some wheels.
Given the old fluff about Ogryns not liking transports for just that reason, that would certainly make sense.
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generalchaos34 wrote: Now i know its hearsay but i did hear part of the Astra Militariumiumum issue was because Star Wars was flexing its own IP muscles back at GW, which, despite the loss of one of my fav names for Warhammer, would be worth it if it was true to see GW crushed by the actual big fish of entertainment (queue image of titan sized Mickey stomping on thousands of guardsman and shouting blood for the mouse god!)
Wouldn't happen, because nothing would come of it. The similarities between Star Wars Stormtroopers and 40K Stormtroopers start and end at the name. And there is nothing inherent in the 'Imperial Guard' name that has anything at all to do with Star Wars.
Well, looks like I just saved myself a bunch of money for April if those are all the models for IG. I'm certainly not shelling out for that monstrous offspring of the Bigfoot 4X4 and a WW2 half-track. How does that thing even turn on the battlefield?
generalchaos34 wrote: Now i know its hearsay but i did hear part of the Astra Militariumiumum issue was because Star Wars was flexing its own IP muscles back at GW, which, despite the loss of one of my fav names for Warhammer, would be worth it if it was true to see GW crushed by the actual big fish of entertainment (queue image of titan sized Mickey stomping on thousands of guardsman and shouting blood for the mouse god!)
Nah its because "storm trooper" is super sci fi generic, and GW demands it owns everything it makes, even if it means destroying fluff.
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Stormonu wrote: Well, looks like I just saved myself a bunch of money for April if those are all the models for IG. I'm certainly not shelling out for that monstrous offspring of the Bigfoot 4X4 and a WW2 half-track. How does that thing even turn on the battlefield?
Also depends if the dex sucks or not. Guard are one of the armies that didn't really need to be updated. It certainly cant get better, at best its a going to get a side step and stay at its current power or the devs are going to get all rose tinted glasses on us and make guard be an auto lose army like it had been for 3 editions.
What do you think of my quick+ nasty MS Paint job?
I'm still very doubtful that GW would change the name of one of its most iconic armies to something near unpronounceable. I can kind of see the angle, "ohh CHS used 'Imperial Guard' so we need to move to more protectable names".... but that decision would never be made by any competent company ... maybe GW doesn't fit that description. The minuscule gain by possibly potentially reducing sales of people like CHS would absolutely be offset by name recognition not only of current players but the general public - not to mention that GW probably gain more sales by CHSs business than they lose.
I'm HOPING that Astra Militarum is a supplement, putting the more unique aspects of IG (Commissars, Ogryns, Ratlings) into a book of their own while keeping IG as a separate codex.
Wouldn't happen, because nothing would come of it. The similarities between Star Wars Stormtroopers and 40K Stormtroopers start and end at the name.
Unless Star Wars has trademarked the word "Stormtrooper", In which case there would be issues....
See what i heard was Imperial Guard, which if you recall are the red guys who they have been making toys for since 1983
The red guys from Star Wars Return of the Jedi are Royal Guard, not Imperial Guard.
Still, while 40K's imperial guard have no relation to Star Wars imperial guard, the mark 7 helmet on the space marines was clearly inspired by Star War's stormtroopers (especially compared to the previous Corvus helmet).
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Trasvi wrote: What do you think of my quick+ nasty MS Paint job?
I'm still very doubtful that GW would change the name of one of its most iconic armies to something near unpronounceable. I can kind of see the angle, "ohh CHS used 'Imperial Guard' so we need to move to more protectable names".... but that decision would never be made by any competent company ... maybe GW doesn't fit that description. The minuscule gain by possibly potentially reducing sales of people like CHS would absolutely be offset by name recognition not only of current players but the general public - not to mention that GW probably gain more sales by CHSs business than they lose.
I'm HOPING that Astra Militarum is a supplement, putting the more unique aspects of IG (Commissars, Ogryns, Ratlings) into a book of their own while keeping IG as a separate codex.
Looks a little better, but the truck-like chassis just seems to demand wheels. Why is another transport even being offered? I'd have rathered a light tank (like a WW2 Stuart, with scout or infiltrate) or a heavy tank (between the Lemann Russ and the Baneblade - something like the Sicaran or Macharius, but not superheavy).
timd wrote:Unless Star Wars has trademarked the word "Stormtrooper", In which case there would be issues....
generalchaos34 wrote:See what i heard was Imperial Guard, which if you recall are the red guys who they have been making toys for since 1983
The 'red guys' are more commonly known as Royal Guard... but neither of the above examples would be a problem, because the Star Wars versions bear no resemblance whatsoever to the 40K entities with the same names. A Trademark doesn't give you total ownership of the word. It just covers uses of it similar to your own.
There's also the fact that the legal teams behind both Star Wars and Disney have historically been much less trigger-happy than GW. While there are plenty of examples of lawsuits launched by both of those entities, they generally (at least so far as I can recall) involve actual IP infringement, rather than GW's approach of issuing legal notices in the hope of scaring off people who aren't actually doing anything wrong.
Trasvi wrote: What do you think of my quick+ nasty MS Paint job?
I'm still very doubtful that GW would change the name of one of its most iconic armies to something near unpronounceable. I can kind of see the angle, "ohh CHS used 'Imperial Guard' so we need to move to more protectable names".... but that decision would never be made by any competent company ... maybe GW doesn't fit that description. The minuscule gain by possibly potentially reducing sales of people like CHS would absolutely be offset by name recognition not only of current players but the general public - not to mention that GW probably gain more sales by CHSs business than they lose.
I'm HOPING that Astra Militarum is a supplement, putting the more unique aspects of IG (Commissars, Ogryns, Ratlings) into a book of their own while keeping IG as a separate codex.
I really hope they don't. I don't want to have to buy 3 different books to field my army that only needed one before.
Yes, Commissars, Storm Troopers, Ogryn, and other units are not *technically* Imperial Guard. That doesn't mean they can't be included in the codex though. They're an integral part of the army, just like the Imperial Navy. From any other companies, I would be perfectly happy to see a ton of supplements come out, but that's because other companies don't charge $50 for a slightly changed force org and some special rules. Battlefront and Warlord release "supplements" with entire armies and rules for FREE as PDF's. Why on earth should GW be charging as much as the full codex for a small change in rules?
If I bought the codex and saw that I needed a supplement just to field Commissars, I would be very unhappy. That would be the final straw to make me drop 40k for good, at least until another IG codex had come out.
timd wrote:Unless Star Wars has trademarked the word "Stormtrooper", In which case there would be issues....
generalchaos34 wrote:See what i heard was Imperial Guard, which if you recall are the red guys who they have been making toys for since 1983
The 'red guys' are more commonly known as Royal Guard... but neither of the above examples would be a problem, because the Star Wars versions bear no resemblance whatsoever to the 40K entities with the same names. A Trademark doesn't give you total ownership of the word. It just covers uses of it similar to your own.
That that explains it a bit, i was never sure of how exactly it was enforced, other than hearing about silly companies trying to trademark the word Candy or some b#@$s@#%
timd wrote:Unless Star Wars has trademarked the word "Stormtrooper", In which case there would be issues....
generalchaos34 wrote:See what i heard was Imperial Guard, which if you recall are the red guys who they have been making toys for since 1983
The 'red guys' are more commonly known as Royal Guard... but neither of the above examples would be a problem, because the Star Wars versions bear no resemblance whatsoever to the 40K entities with the same names. A Trademark doesn't give you total ownership of the word. It just covers uses of it similar to your own.
There's also the fact that the legal teams behind both Star Wars and Disney have historically been much less trigger-happy than GW. While there are plenty of examples of lawsuits launched by both of those entities, they generally (at least so far as I can recall) involve actual IP infringement, rather than GW's approach of issuing legal notices in the hope of scaring off people who aren't actually doing anything wrong.
That's a rosy view of Disney and LucasFilm insaniak. I think it is fair to say that neither Disney nor LucasFilm were as stupid about IP enforcement as GW, but not that they were nicer or more legitimate about it.
weeble1000 wrote: I think it is fair to say that neither Disney nor LucasFilm were as stupid about IP enforcement as GW, but not that they were nicer or more legitimate about it.
That's probably closer to what I was trying to say, yes.
There have certainly still been lawsuits that raised eyebrows (like Disney going after a childcare centre that had painted pictures of Disney characters on their walls)... but then you also have Lucas for decades pretty much ignoring anything that wasn't making actual money from his IP. I would never expect, for example, to hear about Lucasfilm going after some fan website because they happen to be using a trademarked name... And the continuing production of character cards for the Star Wars Miniatures game as a non-profit fan-driven affair (on a website called 'Star Wars Mini Gamers, no less) well after the expiration of WotC's game licence is a rather stark contrast to the way GW handles anyone being enthusiastic about their games online...
Stormonu wrote: Well, looks like I just saved myself a bunch of money for April if those are all the models for IG. I'm certainly not shelling out for that monstrous offspring of the Bigfoot 4X4 and a WW2 half-track. How does that thing even turn on the battlefield?
Also depends if the dex sucks or not. Guard are one of the armies that didn't really need to be updated. It certainly cant get better, at best its a going to get a side step and stay at its current power or the devs are going to get all rose tinted glasses on us and make guard be an auto lose army like it had been for 3 editions.
Guard was auto lose???? They have always been one of the better tournament armies when properly played....
Love the pic of the scions casually walking out of a valkyrie, while waves of tyranids are nearly upon them, and one guy is just waving his flag like he is shooing them away, another just strolling, one on the phone with mom, the leader out front "Uh, guys?" Others looking around, "Where's the enemy?"
timd wrote:Unless Star Wars has trademarked the word "Stormtrooper", In which case there would be issues....
generalchaos34 wrote:See what i heard was Imperial Guard, which if you recall are the red guys who they have been making toys for since 1983
The 'red guys' are more commonly known as Royal Guard... but neither of the above examples would be a problem, because the Star Wars versions bear no resemblance whatsoever to the 40K entities with the same names. A Trademark doesn't give you total ownership of the word. It just covers uses of it similar to your own.
One of those categories is: D21 Games, toys, and sports goods, so only one company can have the protected trademark "Stormtrooper" within the games, toys and sporting goods class without potential for legal conflict. This gives a potential legal conflict between Star Wars and GW. Looks like GW is avoiding a potential problem by renaming its Stormtroopers.
There is only one "live" Stormtrooper trademark listed in the USA and it is owned by Lucasfilm Entertainment for use with "Toy action figures and accessories therefor; action type target games; Christmas tree ornaments; connecting toy links for toy building blocks; construction toys; costume masks; doll costume masks; dolls; jigsaw puzzles; paper face masks; plush toys; role-playing toys; three-dimensional puzzles; toy action figures; toy building blocks; toy candy dispensers; toy candy holders; toy coin banks; toy model hobby craft kits; toy snow globes; toy weapons; wind-up toys; and toy helmets."
GW have gone to great lengths to refer to the Stormies as "Storm Troopers" in basically everything they've written, whereas in Star Wars they're "Stormtroopers". Yes, the space makes a difference. There's the odd slip-up on the online store, but for the most part GW has called them Storm Troopers (and not Stormtroopers) for a very long time.
With all of this talk about metals being phased out, I haven't heard a single word about Techpriests. Do you guys think they are going to be phased out of the codex completely? It was widely accepted that they are useless in the current codex, and given their unpopularity it might mean we see the end of us even getting the option of taking a techpriest. What are your guys thoughts?
GW have gone to great lengths to refer to the Stormies as "Storm Troopers" in basically everything they've written, whereas in Star Wars they're "Stormtroopers". Yes, the space makes a difference. There's the odd slip-up on the online store, but for the most part GW has called them Storm Troopers (and not Stormtroopers) for a very long time.
A mildly aggressive IP lawyer would say the similarities between stormtrooper and storm trooper would cause "confusion in the marketplace"...
Looks like Mantic Games is having fun with GW's new vehicle
The new truck is quite possibly the worst release this year. Far worse than centurions aesthetically imo. Where do they find these artists? You can be assured that its rules/stats will likely be insane as its the only way they are going to sell the model.
The new truck is quite possibly the worst release this year. Far worse than centurions aesthetically imo. Where do they find these artists? You can be assured that its rules/stats will likely be insane as its the only way they are going to sell the model.
WAIT A SEC!!!! I just thought of something.....
This thing looks terrible....
We all know GW purposely leaks these photos....
When are they being released? End of March
Do you think this may be a very elaborate and poorly timed April Fools joke?
So my question is; what would (W)Imperial Guard players prefer? 6 wheeled trukk style, or a solid tank trakk?
There are accessories on the market IRLfor ATVs that replace each wheel with a similar trapezoid tank tread. It provides better weight distribution on marshes and snow.
For the record, I love the turret and it wouldn't crush the driver in a N.A. left handed drive vehicle.
timd wrote: A mildly aggressive IP lawyer would say the similarities between stormtrooper and storm trooper would cause "confusion in the marketplace"...
Maybe, but any lawyer who did should be hung, drawn, quartered, boiled and fed to the pigs. Germany's use of "Sturmtruppen" predates either usage by decades, which should put its use for armoured infantry specialising in close assault firmly in the public domain.
AlexHolker wrote: Maybe, but any lawyer who did should be hung, drawn, quartered, boiled and fed to the pigs. Germany's use of "Sturmtruppen" predates either usage by decades, which should put its use for armoured infantry specialising in close assault firmly in the public domain.
Seriously, this. I don't see how this is even in question. The name "storm troopers" in a scifi context is nothing more than a reference to real-world infantry units with the same name and role. Trying to claim it as your own unique term would be like trying to trademark "tank" and suing anyone who dared to make their own tanks.
And of course the term "imperial guard" isn't much better: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Guard. Though GW might be able to make a case for their "horde of conscripts" being different from the real-world "elite troops of the emperor's personal army" concept and a legitimate brand name.
AlexHolker wrote: Maybe, but any lawyer who did should be hung, drawn, quartered, boiled and fed to the pigs. Germany's use of "Sturmtruppen" predates either usage by decades, which should put its use for armoured infantry specialising in close assault firmly in the public domain.
Seriously, this. I don't see how this is even in question. The name "storm troopers" in a scifi context is nothing more than a reference to real-world infantry units with the same name and role. Trying to claim it as your own unique term would be like trying to trademark "tank" and suing anyone who dared to make their own tanks.
Indeed, its almost as stupid as anyone trying to trademark the term "Space Marine." Like anybody would be stupid enough-- oh wait...
I remember doing some reading about this a while back when the Spots The Space Marine fiasco was happening.
And I genuinely don't think that Star Wars has anything to do with the Imperial Guard rename.
However, if we see the Space Marine Land Speeder renamed...
I don't exactly know how 'expired' trademarks work legally speaking, but it's not particularly unlikely that GW have been sticking 'TM' on Land Speeder before the year 2000. (I think I even checked my 3rd edition marine codices released in 1999-2000 for it).
Big Gob wrote: So my question is; what would (W)Imperial Guard players prefer? 6 wheeled trukk style, or a solid tank trakk?
There are accessories on the market IRLfor ATVs that replace each wheel with a similar trapezoid tank tread. It provides better weight distribution on marshes and snow.
For the record, I love the turret and it wouldn't crush the driver in a N.A. left handed drive vehicle.
I'd love it to be either 6 wheeled or a half-track, so that it looks like a gritty and functional military machine that fits in with the fluff rather than something out of an 80's cartoon.
MrMoustaffa wrote: Honestly Lonecat if the tracks were removed for regular tires (or even just a halftrack) and they took off most of the stupid looking symbols and icons, I'd be pretty happy. Those 2 changes alone would make a huge difference and make it look a lot more practical for the IG to field in mass.
So with neko motifs removed, without fleur de lys, without other pimps, with MASS PRODUCT looks, but with quad tracks instead of being all wheeled or halftrack, will it looks better?
Is 'Quad Track' too advanced for an army modelled after modern day armed forces? in ya opinion meow
Personally i prefer any IG vehicles with quad track and all bogies powered just like this light tank shown above meow
So, not a fan of these new releases, but I'm very curious about the codex.
The Taurox needs suspension - if it had that, it'd be a little less ridiculous.
The Scions? I'm glad they exist. Berets *are* cool, and I'm glad they're back - while the reference people have made earlier to Volpones also works for me. Creating a new concept of the codex, so that instead of being specifically Guard, it covers the majority of non-chaotic human warriors, including private armies of nobles, Schola Progenum troops, rebel armies? I'm OK with that actually. You're opening a door for more variation and personalisation, and if anyone's ever read eisenhorn/ravenor, you'd know there's a scary amount of private armies around the place. The IG is just those soldiers that are shipped off-world to work for the Emperor, PDF's are those that stay on-world to work for the Emperor, everything else might therefore get coverage from this new book.
Who doesn't like the idea of making a whole backstory for your noble-corporation's private army duking it out with the Orks because THOSE PROFITS MUST GET THROUGH?
Anyway, all that aside, I can actually see a fluff-explanation for the butt-ugly Taurox. Consider me the devil's advocate...
The answer is, ALL imperial vehicles are converted civilian STC's. Rhinos especially - using the STC, you can make them out of wood and power them with steam, and they'll still tow bales of hay and plow a field for you.
So why wouldn't the Imperium use a butt-ugly tactically stupid armoured bus? It's the basis of most of their tech.
If you can't achieve your goals with said armoured bus, you clearly didn't send enough of them. send 300!
Captain Roderick wrote: So, not a fan of these new releases, but I'm very curious about the codex.
The Taurox needs suspension - if it had that, it'd be a little less ridiculous.
The Scions? I'm glad they exist. Berets *are* cool, and I'm glad they're back - while the reference people have made earlier to Volpones also works for me. Creating a new concept of the codex, so that instead of being specifically Guard, it covers the majority of non-chaotic human warriors, including private armies of nobles, Schola Progenum troops, rebel armies? I'm OK with that actually. You're opening a door for more variation and personalisation, and if anyone's ever read eisenhorn/ravenor, you'd know there's a scary amount of private armies around the place. The IG is just those soldiers that are shipped off-world to work for the Emperor, PDF's are those that stay on-world to work for the Emperor, everything else might therefore get coverage from this new book.
Who doesn't like the idea of making a whole backstory for your noble-corporation's private army duking it out with the Orks because THOSE PROFITS MUST GET THROUGH?
Anyway, all that aside, I can actually see a fluff-explanation for the butt-ugly Taurox. Consider me the devil's advocate...
The answer is, ALL imperial vehicles are converted civilian STC's. Rhinos especially - using the STC, you can make them out of wood and power them with steam, and they'll still tow bales of hay and plow a field for you.
So why wouldn't the Imperium use a butt-ugly tactically stupid armoured bus? It's the basis of most of their tech.
If you can't achieve your goals with said armoured bus, you clearly didn't send enough of them. send 300!
1. I'm sure Taurox has suspension systems. it's gonna be active ones meow. housed inside track bogies meowmeow. or do you expect hard wound coilspring & Torsion bars used in Hummers?
2. Only if the codex says that Imperial ruling power over several worlds aren't absolute and colonial but rather some kinda confeds. but cuirasses are good.
The answer is, ALL imperial vehicles are converted civilian STC's. Rhinos especially - using the STC, you can make them out of wood and power them with steam, and they'll still tow bales of hay and plow a field for you.
Actually, IIRC, it's not 'civilian tech' but 'colony tech' that had sort of a double duty to act not only as sturdy utility vehicles, but also as frames for weaponisable vehicles with some protection and offensive capability if it was a more hostile territory.
Anyhow, I don't think the GW designers ment it that way - judged from a bunch of latest vehicles, they could barely design their way out of a paper bag! As I've mentioned before, I have no idea how they manage to come up with this stuff, as any 1st year design student would come up with better ones.
There's something wrong with the whole design process at GW, no idea what, but it seems like they skip the vehicle concept/mock-up design phase completely. Usually you do some rough block renders and perhaps a 3-up rough styrofoam model first, to see that the shape is what you want and it looks nice from all angles. It's like the vehicles are a second thought, "yeah we need that on Monday..", and someone is just quickly throwing them together, skipping the initial design and spending that time on detail work.
tarnish wrote: Looked around on the web and came across this one:
I think you will agree that they took a lot of inspiration from this armored car. It´s the german E-V/4 Panzerkraftwagen Ehrhardt from WW1.
I believe I have found a contender. A 1930's locally made Chinese armored car. Apparently when Japan invaded, a bunch of Chinese big wigs organized a bunch of home guard companies. They then had dozens of armoured cars whipped together in the local factories, improvised from whatever was available. I think they actually ended up designing better vehicles than GW in 2014..
1. This is the ancestor of Technicals we see today. just being heftier and gunnier meow. This is my favorite vehicle. In fact.. earliest armored cars were trucks with either steelplating or armored shroud meow
2. China of 1930s were not really united. the land is divided among military commanders who later break away from the central government. these are warlords. these sometimes were recognized nation states by arms dealer. and these warlords also serves foreign powers too! many Han chinese warlords worked for Japanese and Manchu bluebloods. others fought against them but under different factions, some were subjugated by the Guomindang. many has white russian mercs too! These 'technicals' are neccessity since the central government don't have real industry by then, too bad these technicals failed to defend Nanjing and Shanghai against Imperium Iaponnica. (since the latter has properly built armors, guns, shottes, and planes built domestically within the limits of the Empire territory) but yet it's better than nothing!
Lone Cat wrote: 1. I'm sure Taurox has suspension systems. it's gonna be active ones meow. housed inside track bogies meowmeow. or do you expect hard wound coilspring & Torsion bars used in Hummers?
It does not. Suspension requires clearance, which means either the wheels have to rise relative to the pod (which they can't because of the side panels) or the pods have to rise relative to the hull (which they can't because they'd hit the mudguards).
All 4-track vehicles that are actually used (and not a just-for-fun conversion) have extremely broad tracks so to not sink in (swamp, snow). The taurox has none of that and would sink in pretty fast.
GW have gone to great lengths to refer to the Stormies as "Storm Troopers" in basically everything they've written, whereas in Star Wars they're "Stormtroopers". Yes, the space makes a difference. There's the odd slip-up on the online store, but for the most part GW has called them Storm Troopers (and not Stormtroopers) for a very long time.
In us law the space does NOT make a difference.
In fact anything confusingly similar like "Sturm Troops" would be a potential infringement.
I understand UK/commonwealth law is different though.
A different can of worms would be if a kind of common name for a type of shock soldier can be used as a trademark for toy shock soldiers... but that needs expensive lawyers and a judge and/or jury
On the other hand consider me a fan of the apocotruck. It's so horrible that I've been looking all kind of alternatives in case the rules are good. The bulltruck has done wonders for my alternate models library!
Big Gob wrote: So my question is; what would (W)Imperial Guard players prefer? 6 wheeled trukk style, or a solid tank trakk?
There are accessories on the market IRLfor ATVs that replace each wheel with a similar trapezoid tank tread. It provides better weight distribution on marshes and snow.
For the record, I love the turret and it wouldn't crush the driver in a N.A. left handed drive vehicle.
Could it be possible that the back compartment of the Taurus is open topped while the front driver/gunner area is enclosed leading it to being an assault vehicle for ogryns and possibly only counted as open topped when hit on the rear armor?
Also has anyone noticed that gun sat underneath the hammer on the side, what is that?
rabidguineapig wrote:Well no matter what GW decide to call them, I'm still going with "Imperial Guard" and "Stormtroopers" just so I don't have to speak Latin to let people know what army I'm playing.
I can assure you that this is NOT Latin. Wrong words, wrong grammar.
Kroothawk wrote: All 4-track vehicles that are actually used (and not a just-for-fun conversion) have extremely broad tracks so to not sink in (swamp, snow). The taurox has none of that and would sink in pretty fast.
Yep. For example, armies in Nordic countries use 'bandvagens' to traverse snowy forests. It's a really light vehicle with no armor, with huge tracks. The 4-track design is to add maneuverability, the joint in the middle bends in all directions. However, as with the BV, when putting tracks on a vehicle, you maximize the track size for minimal surface pressure.
There's a reason why those 'quad-tracks' are typically an aftermarket part - there's nothing to gain by designing the tracks shorter than the chassis allows. Factory-designed solutions are 8x8 wheeled vehicles, halftracks or fully tracked vehicles, depending on purpose.
The point is that, while quad tracks exist, said tracks are A) short and squaty vs tall and lean and B) when triangular/rhombus-y, the broad part is on the ground while the narrow point is not.
Kroothawk wrote: All 4-track vehicles that are actually used (and not a just-for-fun conversion) have extremely broad tracks so to not sink in (swamp, snow). The taurox has none of that and would sink in pretty fast.
Yep. For example, armies in Nordic countries use 'bandvagens' to traverse snowy forests. It's a really light vehicle with no armor, with huge tracks. The 4-track design is to add maneuverability, the joint in the middle bends in all directions. However, as with the BV, when putting tracks on a vehicle, you maximize the track size for minimal surface pressure.
There's a reason why those 'quad-tracks' are typically an aftermarket part - there's nothing to gain by designing the tracks shorter than the chassis allows. Factory-designed solutions are 8x8 wheeled vehicles, halftracks or fully tracked vehicles, depending on purpose.
That thing can go anywhere!
It can even cross water!
I have spent many hours in bandvagnar
It can even cross water!
I have spent many hours in bandvagnar
I'll drink to that. We did a 2-week 'camping trip' in Lapland during winter.. 16 guys, two Bandies and -15 degrees outside.. Artillery firing to targets less than 1000m away from our tents.. good times
Kroothawk wrote: All 4-track vehicles that are actually used (and not a just-for-fun conversion) have extremely broad tracks so to not sink in (swamp, snow). The taurox has none of that and would sink in pretty fast.
Yep. For example, armies in Nordic countries use 'bandvagens' to traverse snowy forests. It's a really light vehicle with no armor, with huge tracks. The 4-track design is to add maneuverability, the joint in the middle bends in all directions. However, as with the BV, when putting tracks on a vehicle, you maximize the track size for minimal surface pressure.
There's a reason why those 'quad-tracks' are typically an aftermarket part - there's nothing to gain by designing the tracks shorter than the chassis allows. Factory-designed solutions are 8x8 wheeled vehicles, halftracks or fully tracked vehicles, depending on purpose.
That thing can go anywhere! It can even cross water! I have spent many hours in bandvagnar
It can even cross water!
I have spent many hours in bandvagnar
I'll drink to that. We did a 2-week 'camping trip' in Lapland during winter.. 16 guys, two Bandies and -15 degrees outside.. Artillery firing to targets less than 1000m away from our tents.. good times
Do you still have tents that can take woodburners with a hole in the lining for a chimney? That was a novelty to me when I was up there in '91 having an outing with the Finnish army.
Wouldn't happen, because nothing would come of it. The similarities between Star Wars Stormtroopers and 40K Stormtroopers start and end at the name.
Unless Star Wars has trademarked the word "Stormtrooper", In which case there would be issues....
See what i heard was Imperial Guard, which if you recall are the red guys who they have been making toys for since 1983
The red guys from Star Wars Return of the Jedi are Royal Guard, not Imperial Guard.
Still, while 40K's imperial guard have no relation to Star Wars imperial guard, the mark 7 helmet on the space marines was clearly inspired by Star War's stormtroopers (especially compared to the previous Corvus helmet).
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Spoiler:
Trasvi wrote: What do you think of my quick+ nasty MS Paint job?
I'm still very doubtful that GW would change the name of one of its most iconic armies to something near unpronounceable. I can kind of see the angle, "ohh CHS used 'Imperial Guard' so we need to move to more protectable names".... but that decision would never be made by any competent company ... maybe GW doesn't fit that description. The minuscule gain by possibly potentially reducing sales of people like CHS would absolutely be offset by name recognition not only of current players but the general public - not to mention that GW probably gain more sales by CHSs business than they lose.
I'm HOPING that Astra Militarum is a supplement, putting the more unique aspects of IG (Commissars, Ogryns, Ratlings) into a book of their own while keeping IG as a separate codex.
Looks a little better, but the truck-like chassis just seems to demand wheels. Why is another transport even being offered? I'd have rathered a light tank (like a WW2 Stuart, with scout or infiltrate) or a heavy tank (between the Lemann Russ and the Baneblade - something like the Sicaran or Macharius, but not superheavy).
timd wrote: A mildly aggressive IP lawyer would say the similarities between stormtrooper and storm trooper would cause "confusion in the marketplace"...
Maybe, but any lawyer who did should be hung, drawn, quartered, boiled and fed to the pigs. Germany's use of "Sturmtruppen" predates either usage by decades, which should put its use for armoured infantry specialising in close assault firmly in the public domain.
Perhaps, but Lucasfilm decided it was a good idea to trademark it anyway...
Have not checked IG codexes to see if GW also trademarked the word/s.
timd wrote: A mildly aggressive IP lawyer would say the similarities between stormtrooper and storm trooper would cause "confusion in the marketplace"...
Maybe, but any lawyer who did should be hung, drawn, quartered, boiled and fed to the pigs. Germany's use of "Sturmtruppen" predates either usage by decades, which should put its use for armoured infantry specialising in close assault firmly in the public domain.
Perhaps, but Lucasfilm decided it was a good idea to trademark it anyway...
Have not checked IG codexes to see if GW also trademarked the word/s.
T
It's easy to trademark most anything, but it doesn't protect it from the arguement that there was prior use and thus improperly issued. It happens. A company like Lucasfilms/Disney may have created confusion by using such a product trade name invalidating a prior existing claim but that doesn't guarantee it exclusive use.
It can even cross water!
I have spent many hours in bandvagnar
I'll drink to that. We did a 2-week 'camping trip' in Lapland during winter.. 16 guys, two Bandies and -15 degrees outside.. Artillery firing to targets less than 1000m away from our tents.. good times
Do you still have tents that can take woodburners with a hole in the lining for a chimney? That was a novelty to me when I was up there in '91 having an outing with the Finnish army.
In Sweden we still have them! The temprature outside dosent matter as long as you shove more wood in the burner
Looks to me like that guys behind the Commisar on the cover look like regular cadian style helmets. Not sure what this will imply, or if there are any rumors about the basic infantry squad box being re-done.
And i thing the new truck needs either the tracks to be shorter, or have the tracks be twice as wide (preferably both, similar to the NOD light tank from).
Edit: and the Cadians in the Hydra picture don't look different to me.
I say, those are nice Ogryns. Well, #1 and #3 are, the shield guy's tank tread breastplate is a bit goofy. I guess they come 3 to a box. I see all three have the same lower half.
Ogryn that nobody will buy because they suck, and a Hydra that nobody will buy because it doesn't have Interceptor (if the last FAQ is any indication).
Those ogryn are hideous...the new aesthetic for guard sucks. Not a fan.
I'm surprised how many people are liking the Ogryn, but then, my abiding, and favorite, memory of them is this guy..
Not playing Guard, having gone through Google images to find the pic I was surprised how bad the various incarnations have been, so I guess these new guys are an improvement.
Ogryns are laughably bad. Who is designing all of this single piece torso armor for the new IG releases? And what's with the Play-Doh faces? And the bright colors?
Interestingly it looks like the bull ogryns are armed with ranged weapons and not mauls like people were saying. I'm looking forward to seeing their codex entry. But then again I LOVE Ogryns. Less so in 6th than I did in 5th.
Hulksmash wrote: Interestingly it looks like the bull ogryns are armed with ranged weapons and not mauls like people were saying. I'm looking forward to seeing their codex entry. But then again I LOVE Ogryns. Less so in 6th than I did in 5th.
Maybe it is a realllllly close range ranged weapon. Like only has a CC profile. 'It da bad guy. Pull da trigger. Profit.
Hulksmash wrote: Interestingly it looks like the bull ogryns are armed with ranged weapons and not mauls like people were saying. I'm looking forward to seeing their codex entry. But then again I LOVE Ogryns. Less so in 6th than I did in 5th.
Yeah, it looks like they have a grenade launcher sort of thing. Muzzle is too wide for bullets. Or just a big ass shotgun, like a breaching weapon.
Hulksmash wrote: Interestingly it looks like the bull ogryns are armed with ranged weapons and not mauls like people were saying. I'm looking forward to seeing their codex entry. But then again I LOVE Ogryns. Less so in 6th than I did in 5th.
Maybe it is a realllllly close range ranged weapon. Like only has a CC profile. 'It da bad guy. Pull da trigger. Profit.
I like most of the new stuff for IG, it feels like GW is trying to up-tech the Imperial Guard a bit. Even their new name seems like it was intended to evoke a more futuristic feel.
I guess they want to move away from WWI in space, or at least mesh it with more high-tech items such as the ogryn body armor. All-in-all, I feel positive about this upcoming release.
It's a fire and forget weapon. Fire it and forget about that enemy.
Seriously though it's probably the 40K equivelant to a blunderbuss. And the way it is positioned on the arm it probably works great in hand to hand as well like a tonfa or the old night sticks the police used to carry in the US.
Tactics will probably be drive forward in the herp derp bus, jump out let the shields take the return fire. Next turn fire the blunderbuss and charge into H2H using the shield to bowl people over (Bull style, hence the name) and smash with blunderbuss.
Theophony wrote: It's a fire and forget weapon. Fire it and forget about that enemy.
Seriously though it's probably the 40K equivelant to a blunderbuss. And the way it is positioned on the arm it probably works great in hand to hand as well like a tonfa or the old night sticks the police used to carry in the US.
Tactics will probably be drive forward in the herp derp bus, jump out let the shields take the return fire. Next turn fire the blunderbuss and charge into H2H using the shield to bowl people over (Bull style, hence the name) and smash with blunderbuss.
This is the most likely.
Alternatively, it could be a grenade launcher - fire a nade into a crowd (frag, tear gas, doesn't matter), and while the crowd scatters / takes cover, charge forward and curb stomp some dissidents.
Agamemnon2 wrote: I say, those are nice Ogryns. Well, #1 and #3 are, the shield guy's tank tread breastplate is a bit goofy. I guess they come 3 to a box. I see all three have the same lower half.
Good God the Ogryns are appalling. Wtf are they playing at. Thankfully I've got 6 2nd ed so I'm fine. If I needed more i'd go to Kromlech for theirs. How can they look at FWs amazing chaos ogryns then churn out these. They look like they are baddies from power rangers ffs.
At least they haven't cocked up the Hydra too much. I quite like the Scions, don't mind the taurox but they really screwed the pooch on the Ogs. I shudder to think just how bad the roughriders might be.
Edit...... I can see one use for the new Ogryns. Heavy weapon servitors. Cut arms off and replace with a suitable big gun. Plasma cannon preferably. I always thought that the normal human size servitors looked daft with such bfg.
but I think they are decent models which quite a few folk will go for (especially if the rules no longer suck) just not the direction I hoped they go with them
oh well I guess I don't have to worry about buying them
Medium of Death wrote: I like elements of the Ogryn, but was hoping for so much more. Will wait to see the sprue pics before gnashing my teeth too hard.
Hydra is nice, not sure why it need an exposed gunner though.
I'm with you here, but honestly, even if there are a bunch of goodies on the sprues that make it seem like a decent kit overall, despite the fugly bits, it's certainly going to be priced higher than I will find reasonable.
And so, yet again, instead of definitely getting ~$30 from me, the DEFINITELY WON'T be getting ~$35-50 from me...
Medium of Death wrote: I like elements of the Ogryn, but was hoping for so much more. Will wait to see the sprue pics before gnashing my teeth too hard.
Hydra is nice, not sure why it need an exposed gunner though.
So FW can do a resin cab upgrade later for it , GW is clearly designing for kitbashing and secondary FW sales now.
In all honesty, I think the Ogryns are probably better than previous versions (at least, ones I'm familiar with), but not enough to make me finally start including Ogryns with my guard armies.
Hmmm...although, I must admit, on reflection, my guard armies are DKoK, Elysians, and Renegade Guard. I just don't find that Ogryns feel right in either of my loyalist guard armies, so they're not included, and for the Renegades I have the FW Ogryns... I wonder, if I did Cadians or other classic IG types, would I feel differently and include Ogryns?
I thought those models were god awful. The newer metal ones were pretty good but by then they'd priced me out on a squad (not paying 100+ for 5 models) so I wound up using Ogre Bulls. The new models are good enough that I might consider picking them up. Granted, if they are $50 per box (likely) it'll only happen on a large purchase that I can pull a siginificant discount on.
GW is making the same mistake that fashion challenged men everywhere make when it comes to establishing their personal brand. The unique look of that truck and the ogryns brings this to mind:
Also, why does that ogryn have a piece of metal plated to his wife-beater?
Once i slap a few WHFB bits on these fellas, these armored brutes with fit in nicely my guard. I shall name the mustachioed one Baron Beauregard Thickskull.
I do like them, they could look better if posed like they were charging instead if the relatively static stances in the pictures.Also the colors are just garish and it makes the model look much worse than it is IMO.
but as mentioned, it was more than a little "Ogre in Space".
These news ones are...disappointing.
I like the guns, but not the Ogryns themselves, in your pic.
I had these, and my old man painted them for me in an awesome paint scheme (I was like 8 at the time, even back then, those models were too expensive for me too ruin), including one of the more chained up ogryns being painted black with gold chains..... Mr T.
I think color choices didn't do any favors to the Scions or Taurox either. After we see the Scions in a more traditional IG scheme -- and with the alternate heads -- I think they'll end up looking closer to the current models than we realize.
The Ogryns aren't blowing me away, but I think they're solid enough.
I wonder how much these ogryn/bullgryns will cost. It's $22 for an individual metal ogryn, making a 5-ogryn squad cost $110 from GW directly. I'm curious if there will be a notable decrease in cost with the plastic versions.
I would actually bet on it being the combi-kit with the salamander if that proves out. Otherwise the preset open rear is good for the mortar type artillery like the colossus and griffon.
Regarding price we're probably looking at 3 for $50-$55. So it is a price decrease, just not a huge one.
Eh, I can still use the old Ogryns that are metal, I really like the look of them to be honest, I just wish that the rules were good enough to field them.... although I doubt that's going to happen, they will still be bad I'm guessing.
I just want to see the new rules before I make my list of mass allies. Hopefully the points are still right to run a small amount of Guard.
The Hydra is pretty nice, I could see myself buying one or two of them if I return to 40K and they aren't priced completely ridiculously, which means priced lower than the FW Hydra.
.
The Ogryns are mediocre at best. I like the newest metal ones better. Luckily I already have squad of those waiting to be painted. The Bullgryns are interesting, I need to see the miniatures before I can pass judgment.
Hopefully that is a plastic Hydra GW will be releasing and not just a FW one they put in the picture to tease us.
The Ogryns/Bullgryns looks about as bad as expected. Though it looks like the one has assault/defensive grenades on his hip, and what appears to missile launchers for weapons? Probably a grenade launcher though. Riot shield probably confers a 4+ or 5+ invuln save.
I love that you quoted all of the pictures and then made observations that were made many times in the last few pages. You just needed to add a 'funny' meme picture to make the post complete.
Like them a damn sight more than any previous attempts at Ogryns, that's for sure. As others have said, the choices of colour scheme really do the models no favours. The 'cool' thing to do is condemn the models based on a few washed out magazine shots but I'm probably going to hold off on judging, myself...
Hmm, just seen the new ogryns, bit underwhelmed by them to be honest, could be the paint job though, I like my miniatures looking well worn and weathered and they're just too shiny to me, I do like the rebreather head though and the ripperguns
The armour looks like its separate to the vest wearing torso, I mean it looks like it's a separate component that would fit over the ogryn body like a real breastplate, anyone else think this? Which would be pretty cool I suppose (except for the tank tread loincloth, I'd be cutting that right off)
Bull0 wrote: Like them a damn sight more than any previous attempts at Ogryns, that's for sure. As others have said, the choices of colour scheme really do the models no favours. The 'cool' thing to do is condemn the models based on a few washed out magazine shots but I'm probably going to hold off on judging, myself...
Oh, do come on! Like them if you like them, but these are clear, well lit, focused shots of the magazine (so, one would logically assume, designed to make them look as good as possible) not the same quality that appeared last week of the Taurox.
I agree the paint scheme is poor, but I think the heads are the worst aspect, so compatibility with Ogre kits might save them (although, again, having to buy more bits and spend more time in order to 'fix' an offering from the self proclaimed greatest maker of toy soldiers in the world is a whole discussion in itself) but as they stand, they actually make me less inclined to collect IG than previously.
These Ogryns have a lot of potential. I think I will GS some chain mail onto the bullygryns and add extra armour and to the normal Ogryns. Also a cut down chain sword will go a long way to beefing up the bayonet
Bull0 wrote: Like them a damn sight more than any previous attempts at Ogryns, that's for sure. As others have said, the choices of colour scheme really do the models no favours. The 'cool' thing to do is condemn the models based on a few washed out magazine shots but I'm probably going to hold off on judging, myself...
Oh, do come on! Like them if you like them, but these are clear, well lit, focused shots of the magazine (so, one would logically assume, designed to make them look as good as possible) not the same quality that appeared last week of the Taurox.
I agree the paint scheme is poor, but I think the heads are the worst aspect, so compatibility with Ogre kits might save them (although, again, having to buy more bits and spend more time in order to 'fix' an offering from the self proclaimed greatest maker of toy soldiers in the world is a whole discussion in itself) but as they stand, they actually make me less inclined to collect IG than previously.
Comparing how badly I considered Centurions based on GWs promo pics to how much I liked them once I saw them painted and on the table, I think that it's reasonable to disregard GWs promo pics entirely. For some reason, they have a knack for presenting their products in as unappealing alight as possible.
Bull0 wrote: Like them a damn sight more than any previous attempts at Ogryns, that's for sure. As others have said, the choices of colour scheme really do the models no favours. The 'cool' thing to do is condemn the models based on a few washed out magazine shots but I'm probably going to hold off on judging, myself...
Oh, do come on! Like them if you like them, but these are clear, well lit, focused shots of the magazine (so, one would logically assume, designed to make them look as good as possible) not the same quality that appeared last week of the Taurox. I agree the paint scheme is poor, but I think the heads are the worst aspect, so compatibility with Ogre kits might save them (although, again, having to buy more bits and spend more time in order to 'fix' an offering from the self proclaimed greatest maker of toy soldiers in the world is a whole discussion in itself) but as they stand, they actually make me less inclined to collect IG than previously.
Yep, the photos are in focus, but they're grainy and washed out by virtue of being phone camera pictures. Also, you can actually see the page is bent in one of them, so the shape of the models may even be moderately distorted. Definitely doesn't present the models in "as good a way as possible". You can also only see 4 possible builds out of what is, presumably, a big multi-part kit. So, yeah, reserving judgement is still the way I'm choosing to play this.
I don't really like the heads either, to be fair, but I do like them more than any previous incarnations, which is all I said.
This line is a bit troubling:
azreal13 wrote:compatibility with Ogre kits might save them (although, again, having to buy more bits and spend more time in order to 'fix' an offering from the self proclaimed greatest maker of toy soldiers in the world is a whole discussion in itself)
That kind of reads like you aren't judging the models on their merit alone.
Bull0 wrote: Like them a damn sight more than any previous attempts at Ogryns, that's for sure. As others have said, the choices of colour scheme really do the models no favours. The 'cool' thing to do is condemn the models based on a few washed out magazine shots but I'm probably going to hold off on judging, myself...
Oh, do come on! Like them if you like them, but these are clear, well lit, focused shots of the magazine (so, one would logically assume, designed to make them look as good as possible) not the same quality that appeared last week of the Taurox.
I agree the paint scheme is poor, but I think the heads are the worst aspect, so compatibility with Ogre kits might save them (although, again, having to buy more bits and spend more time in order to 'fix' an offering from the self proclaimed greatest maker of toy soldiers in the world is a whole discussion in itself) but as they stand, they actually make me less inclined to collect IG than previously.
Comparing how badly I considered Centurions based on GWs promo pics to how much I liked them once I saw them painted and on the table, I think that it's reasonable to disregard GWs promo pics entirely. For some reason, they have a knack for presenting their products in as unappealing alight as possible.
I totally agree, my tongue was certainly headed cheekward when I wrote that part of the post, as GW, somehow, seem happy to use gak pictures of gak paint jobs to promote their models.
It all feeds back into the attitude of "they'll buy what we make, we don't make what they'll buy" that seems to be their MO. They don't feel pressure to sell to their customers, they're arrogant enough to assume people will buy it regardless. It distresses me that they're largely correct, and I sincerely hope that the recent financial drop is a symptom of the customers finally wising up and will force them to put some hard yards in, rather than some more spurious economic reasoning.
azreal13 wrote:compatibility with Ogre kits might save them (although, again, having to buy more bits and spend more time in order to 'fix' an offering from the self proclaimed greatest maker of toy soldiers in the world is a whole discussion in itself)
That kind of reads like you aren't judging the models on their merit alone.
Where is it written I have to judge them on merit alone? I'll arrive at my opinion any damn way I choose.
As it happens, I think these are terrible, I would always think they were terrible, but at least if they were some offering from a small studio or novice sculptor it would mitigate their apparent terribadness somewhat. But they aren't, they are from a company who openly claim to make the best toy soldiers in the world.
So although you were slagging the models off because they're a GW product and you take exception to GW's self-promotion, you weren't actually doing that, you just don't like the models. Fair enough!
I like the current Ogryns a lot more than these new ones (except the one guy with the gas mask, that looks cool). All I can think of looking at them is a goonies-esque "HEY YOU GUUUUUYS!".
The new Hydra also looks rather lame, like they Lego'd the current Hydra, and I'm really hoping its not Open Topped.
pretre wrote: Also, I love the electronic commissar on the Bone 'ead's shoulder.
That bit actually made me smile; "You do what da metalmouf sez ya lummox, it 'as the proper 'at on it an' everyfink! *smack*"
I think the kit is a bit hit&miss, some of the parts are great, some look a bit derpy, a few look truly stupid, but they've gone with yet another "Baby's First Warhammer" paintjob so I'm hoping they will improve to "brilliant, pretty good, wee bit derpy" when we more pics. The scale will be important too, if they're on 30 or 40mm bases they'll be much less ridiculous than if they're on 50's. What is up with the legs though? Square knees and hard angles on fabric...yeugh.
Bit surprised to find so many fans of the older metal ogryns, I always thought their faces looked like mugshots of paedophiles, only with tusks.
The moustached head is probably a Vostroyan wannabe Ogryn.
Still really liking these. Clearly superior sculptsto anything we've had before. They're going to look brutal with the right paint job, not that this is bad paint, GW just don't do 'gritty' studio work.
plastictrees wrote: The moustached head is probably a Vostroyan wannabe Ogryn.
Still really liking these. Clearly superior sculptsto anything we've had before. They're going to look brutal with the right paint job, not that this is bad paint, GW just don't do 'gritty' studio work.
plastictrees wrote: The moustached head is probably a Vostroyan wannabe Ogryn.
Still really liking these. Clearly superior sculptsto anything we've had before. They're going to look brutal with the right paint job, not that this is bad paint, GW just don't do 'gritty' studio work.
plastictrees wrote: The moustached head is probably a Vostroyan wannabe Ogryn.
Still really liking these. Clearly superior sculptsto anything we've had before. They're going to look brutal with the right paint job, not that this is bad paint, GW just don't do 'gritty' studio work.
plastictrees wrote: The moustached head is probably a Vostroyan wannabe Ogryn.
Still really liking these. Clearly superior sculptsto anything we've had before. They're going to look brutal with the right paint job, not that this is bad paint, GW just don't do 'gritty' studio work.
With "Clearly" being clearly subjective here!
The mustachioed head is the most gooftastic.
Ogryns that shave? And that shave that precisely?
They just use a Las-Gun
Nah, it's shaved during the battle.
Getting shot in the face tends to be bad for facial hair.
plastictrees wrote: The moustached head is probably a Vostroyan wannabe Ogryn.
Still really liking these. Clearly superior sculptsto anything we've had before. They're going to look brutal with the right paint job, not that this is bad paint, GW just don't do 'gritty' studio work.
With "Clearly" being clearly subjective here!
Nope. The sculpting quality is clearly superior. This is craft, not art. You may not like the concept these are sculpted from or the design choices, which are certainly subjective, but the technical sculpting is more than solid.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, maybe that's just nose hair. We're jumping to too many conclusions here.
but as mentioned, it was more than a little "Ogre in Space".
These news ones are...disappointing.
Ugh, agreed on both counts! Those old school models are sweet... the new ones, not so much.
Aw come on, guys. Isn't that a little bit of nostalgia at play? Aren't the ridiculous faces and comic book style bandages rather silly and tongue in cheek on these 90's Ogryn? I am seeing more of a Judge Dredd vibe with these models than anything Grimdark. My point is if GW came out with the 90's Ogryn today, I doubt they would be well received. I mean the bandages alone are hilarious!
I have to say, the newest ones have better faces for conveying the cerebral limitations Ogryn are known for. They look like they were descended from humans and now wear their pants on their heads--which I like infinitely better than those cartoony 90'sOgryn.
plastictrees wrote: The moustached head is probably a Vostroyan wannabe Ogryn.
Still really liking these. Clearly superior sculptsto anything we've had before. They're going to look brutal with the right paint job, not that this is bad paint, GW just don't do 'gritty' studio work.
With "Clearly" being clearly subjective here!
Nope. The sculpting quality is clearly superior. This is craft, not art. You may not like the concept these are sculpted from or the design choices, which are certainly subjective, but the technical sculpting is more than solid.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, maybe that's just nose hair. We're jumping to too many conclusions here.
Aw come on, guys. Isn't that a little bit of nostalgia at play? Aren't the ridiculous faces and comic book style bandages rather silly and tongue in cheek on these 90's Ogryn? I am seeing more of a Judge Dredd vibe with these models than anything Grimdark. My point is if GW came out with the 90's Ogryn today, I doubt they would be well received. I mean the bandages alone are hilarious!
Agreed
I have these models in my own army but I always hated the heads, I replaced them with metal Nork Deddog heads back when GW still sold individual bitz
I think I liked the previous version of the ogryns better than these new ones.. and the original ones the least. New ones are in the middle, and not something I'll buy.
Stormtroopers are good, hydra is great to finally have.. the rest is meh to hell no for me :(
AGH! Jesus, people are seriously horrified by the new heads?
Not getting the hate for the tank treads either.
It is almost as if people have different opinions than yours!
I guess the real point here is that, for the most part, Ogryns have always been less then impressive - both in terms of models and rules!
I live in a Truman Show-esque world where everything happens for my express benefit. To rephrase, noone has explained why they think tank tread armor doesn't suit the look of the Ogryn.
Getting a little touchy there Alph, your SHIELD cat-suit must be riding up again.
Breotan wrote: I play Orks and wouldn't buy this trash. Paste all the orky bits you want, it's still lipstick on a pig.
Really? I think the Taurox could make a pretty sick truck. Way more work than it's probably worth, but still.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Redemption wrote: Seeing as those Bullgryns are painted in the same colours as the Scions, I'm guessing they're available to the Militarum Tempestus at least.
They chaperone them on the Scions Schola Progenium field trips.
I dislike these Ogryn a lot less than the previous iterations. They're no tank-men, but they at least look like an offshoot of humanity and not the abysmal Ogres in Space they were conceived as.
So, I will be the first to admit I am not any good with Photoshop, but I've tried my hand at tweaking the atrocious paint scheme GW have blessed the new bigguns with.
I'm not really convinced that it qualifies as "makeshift". The breastplate sure looks like it was intentionally manufactured with the lugs to hang tank treads from. It sort of makes sense from the point of view of the Imperium. They're far happier to have the abhuman Ogryns do battlefield track repair over regular humans, given their higher strength and lower status, and this gives them a way to carry around the materials to carry out such repairs.
Don't think these look too bad, the guy with the mask looks pretty cool.
Although... man so many of the releases these days just look like toys.
The funny thing is, when you had stuff that looked more like 'hard' sci-fi, dark and gritty in the past, that actually tends to appeal to kids a lot more by extension - because they are moving on to something they deem as more 'adult', and away from the action men and tonka toys that these recent releases resemble.
Of course the added bonus as far as adults is concerned is that you can get them without having trying to argue about your mental age with your significant other.
Indestry wrote: At least there's bitz potential with that cigar in my opinion.
Or you could roll up a tiny bit of greenstuff? That would save you $49 or so.
Delboy wrote: So, I will be the first to admit I am not any good with Photoshop, but I've tried my hand at tweaking the atrocious paint scheme GW have blessed the new bigguns with.
Spoiler:
I just noticed that he has a metal aquila riveted to his wife-beater t-shirt.
Who says he's riveted it to the t-shirt? This is an ogryn we're talking about. Stapling things to oneself is usually more the province of Chaos or orks, but maybe the Commissar told him that "the righteous bear the sign of the Aquila" or something so he knew who not to shoot, and our poor abhuman just took that a bit too far...
I've never liked GW's Ogryn models. Not the original ones, not the ones we had in 2nd Ed, nor the current ones. The only one I could tolerate was the current Bone 'Ead. These plastic ones are like a breath of fresh air compared to all of those. They're still ugly, and some of the heads look goofy, but I really like them.
And the Hydra is ace... damn... I didn't want any more Guard tanks, but plastic Hydra. Non-bent not-resin barrels. How can anyone resist?
plastictrees wrote: AGH! Jesus, people are seriously horrified by the new heads?
Holy crap. This is shaping up to be one of the worst codex relaunches ever. Absolutely atrocious. Now all that's missing is a huge swing from the nerfbat to every remotely competitive unit and the castration of the IG is complete.
Palindrome wrote: So far I am interested in precisely none of the new IG stuff.
The new Ogryns and the truckthing are just awful.
I do have a pile of the 2nd ed Ogryns so they will happily see the table if (IF!) the new Ogryn rules are any good.
I agree.
I do, however, like the Stormtroopers so far (even more so if we get other head options than those daft berets), but the bus and Ogryns are not very appealing. Maybe my opinion will change when I see the actual kits? Possibly. I am still not impressed with them.
Oh thank god, the Hydra proves that GW hasn't forgotten how to make IG tanks. TBH I like the current version with the enclosed turret better, but the new one is still a good model that fits very nicely with the existing IG design concepts. Maybe that awful transport will be a single exception that we can all just ignore.
Happygrunt wrote: I love the hydra. The open turret will be a pain to paint but I am looking forward to the affordable Hydra kit. (Not FW)
I am really excited for this release. I really hope there is more to come. And has anyone IDed the barrel of the tank that is behind the hydra?
It's a battery of Basilisks.
Okay, thanks. Makes sense, but I wasn't sure if I had missed something.
It's worth noting that the Hydra does appear to be built using parts from the Basilisk.
It has the kind of "open air sun deck" back with railings that the Basilisk has and it looks to actually have two new crew figures.
One is crouched down using a set of unarmored legs, so it's not just the heavy weapons team legs thrown in, and reading a map with a kind of 'tanker helmet' on and one hand to his ear while the other crew figure is braced against the firing mechanism for the Hydra's autocannons.
Hopefully this means the Basilisk gets some crew figure options in the box as well.
Originally I was a bit put off by the Hydra, but the more I see it the more I like it. It's not like the Manticore redesign(which I felt was unnecessary), where they just said "put four rockets on it and call it a day" because it genuinely feels like this could be just a different pattern of Hydra than the Forge World model.
krazynadechukr wrote: Gw is REALLY trying to sway people to buy FW products over their
I'd just like to know how the decision making goes in the company. They're trying to make money aren't they? So yeah, we have the IG relaunch coming up. Which kits should we add or revamp? Yeah how about the Ogryns that absolutely noone wants or needs? Yeah an idiotic concept that doesn't fit into the theme of 90% of IG armies sounds like a brilliant one to make money with. We'll do that! Hmm yeah so I guess the market is waiting for an exciting new vehicle kit too. How about a TOY BUS for the giant mutated babyheads? Yeah! That's awesome! It'd be so cool like when there's Ogryns coming out of that bus into the middle of combat! So I think that pretty much sums it up! When we add these models the IG will sell like crazy! Let's do it!
I really like the red on the guns. Reminds me of pictures I see in old white dwarfs before my time. When space marine weapons where bright.
I love it!
Personal preference I know but If I ever did space marines that werent Scibor id do their guns bright like they used to be. But this is coming from the guy whos guard wear kilts and bright red uniform in the desert...
I'm not a fan of the plastic ogryn but I'm also not a detractor either like with the ridiculous and ugly ogryn mystery machine tank. They're simply ok... nothing more IMO. The current metal ogryn though I thought (except for the bonehead) captured the look much better. I do hope that with improved rules and cheaper $$ cost that I'll see more on the table. I picked up 10 ogryn cheap during the old apocalypse release back in late 4th and ended up selling them all as I never fielded them.
Peregrine wrote: Oh thank god, the Hydra proves that GW hasn't forgotten how to make IG tanks. TBH I like the current version with the enclosed turret better, but the new one is still a good model that fits very nicely with the existing IG design concepts. Maybe that awful transport will be a single exception that we can all just ignore.
Yeah, of the things we've seen, the Hydra is the standout star. Looks really good.
Hmmm well I like the Stormtroopers (refuse to use the new trademarked names here), but I am hoping that you are going to be able to switch out the hellguns for lasguns without much problem if you want to make Grenadiers (assuming they are still around). Sometimes, I am not sure with GW's design philosophy if we are going to have arms or some horrible push-in gun with an arm.
It's sad that GW wasted an opportunity to make a salamander model (that could have dual-kit worked as an Ogryn transport) to instead design that atrocity. That model just stands out too much with the rest of the IG line if you plopped down next to a line of armor. And to top it off, just looks like something that belongs with a squad of knock-off GI Joes like Action Squad you find at the Dollar store. Nothing but shame there. The only good thing about this is the new stat line hopefully that will open up some potential for using different vehicles in the game.
Hydra? Nice. I just hope its a dual kit with something else or a separate Hydra system (maybe a ground-to-ground version?).
As for the Ogryns... on the fence. Maybe it's just the paint job, but a number of them just do not look like they belong. Everything looks too clean, not fitting well with the rest of the grunts and the tank treads just scream 'special education' to me. I really think GW wasted some opportunities to get some new Guard lines out like Steel Legion or at least an updated Catachan grunts box just to make things that we may not need. The only good thing about the Bullgryns is that we can at least have something to put in Ogryns with close combat weapons now I guess with the Renegade models. Hopefully, they will have some options for different CCWs and not just a shield.
Oh well, Werewoolf minis may be getting my money if they make some more variations of their Spetsnaz Ogryns.
Definition of scion (n)
Bing Dictionary
sci·on
[ sī́ ən ]
1.younger member of family: a child or descendant of a family, especially a rich, famous, or important family
2.part of plant for grafting: a living shoot or twig of a plant used for grafting to a stock
1.younger member of family: a child or descendant of a family, especially a rich, famous, or important family
2.part of plant for grafting: a living shoot or twig of a plant used for grafting to a stock
Or a name of a car.....
WTFGW?
What are you talking about? The tank is called a taurox. The scions are the stormtroopers.
Looking forward to the hydra, but good luck getting me to rename my army. That name is awful, a real mouthful, and it just plain sucks. Its like finding out your favorite band changed their name to something in Yiddish. I can't get behind that.
The 'improved colour scheme' is much better IMO. GW never seems to do it's miniatures justice with their paint schemes and pictures. Take the centurions; not the greatest models ever released, but the hate died down pretty quickly when people actually saw the models and what decent painters could do with them. I 100% expect the battle bus to look much better in person, with a decent paint scheme, and the new oqryns are looking fine to me, no big improvement over the last rendition, but still fine. Just need someone to paint them nicely....
1.younger member of family: a child or descendant of a family, especially a rich, famous, or important family
2.part of plant for grafting: a living shoot or twig of a plant used for grafting to a stock
Or a name of a car.....
WTFGW?
What are you talking about? The tank is called a taurox. The scions are the stormtroopers.
I believe he is referring to this:
Scion is a brand of vehicles produced by Toyota Motor Corporation for the North American market.
1.younger member of family: a child or descendant of a family, especially a rich, famous, or important family
2.part of plant for grafting: a living shoot or twig of a plant used for grafting to a stock
Or a name of a car.....
WTFGW?
What are you talking about? The tank is called a taurox. The scions are the stormtroopers.
I believe he is referring to this:
Scion is a brand of vehicles produced by Toyota Motor Corporation for the North American market.
But that's not GW. He said WTFGW.
If he had said WTF Toyota, then that would have made sense.
If he had said WTF Toyota, then that would have made sense.
I don't think the whole statement made a lot of sense, but I thought he was generally perplexed by the use of the word scion in general and not thinking the new tank was called a scion.
I don't like the new name of the IG Codex. Since I am posting here anyway I might as well say it.
I kinda like the idea if it's the "technical name" for the Storm Trooper regiment, as opposed to what everyone calls them. Y'know, like the big formal thing that goes at the top of Munitorum request forms and fancy dinner invites, but the Colonel still informs you that you'll have a squad of storm troopers dropping right behind that ridge to blast the hell out of the rebel Basilisks.
Spinner wrote: I kinda like the idea if it's the "technical name" for the Storm Trooper regiment, as opposed to what everyone calls them. Y'know, like the big formal thing that goes at the top of Munitorum request forms and fancy dinner invites, but the Colonel still informs you that you'll have a squad of storm troopers dropping right behind that ridge to blast the hell out of the rebel Basilisks.
Well, it is the High Gothic name.
Officially on the paper work they would be called that, but all the lowly peasants...I mean guardsmen, would call them stormtroopers all the same.
Yeah, and that's fine by me, as is the use of the term "Astra Militarium". I'll be more than a little peeved if that phases out Imperial Guard altogether, but somehow I don't think that's likely...
Actually, that raises a question. Of the people who really dislike the fancy new High Gothic name, how many would be more favorably disposed if they still called the book "Imperial Guard" and just used Astra Militarium a few times inside? Just for the sake of my curiosity.
I am totally digging the Shield Ogryn's beard. It looks like the sort of impeccable facial hair that inspires men to wade through fields of fire- after all, if an Ogryn can look this good doing it, how hard can it be?
Boooo - I was really hoping for heavily armoured ogres during the last Ogre Kingdoms update, and they give them to IG instead. (Though they don't look very good imo compared to the normal ogryn).
All I'm saying is "Scion" doesn't sound like a very threatening or scary name. I think of cylon, scones, scion the car, sigh on, syphilis, etc...
You hear Spetsnaz, Rangers, Delta Squad, SEALS, Marine Recon, Kommando, SpecOps, etc....It brings images of very highly trained warriors....
I mean, they could be called Spartans, or Imperial Legionnaires, or Keshiks, or Green Berets, or Rapid Assault Force, or just something that paints a vivid picture of an elite fighting force....
krazynadechukr wrote: All I'm saying is "Scion" doesn't sound like a very threatening or scary name. I think of cylon, scones, scion the car, sigh on, syphilis, etc...
You hear Spetsnaz, Rangers, Delta Squad, SEALS, Marine Recon, Kommando, SpeOps, etc....It brings images of very highly trained warriors....
I mean, they could be called Spartans, or Imperial Legionnaires, or Keshiks, or Green Berets, or Rapid Assault Force, or just something that paints a vivid picture of an elite fighting force....
Cylon? Not scary?
Those things wiped out the human race. Don't diss the Cylons
Spinner wrote: if they still called the book "Imperial Guard" and just used Astra Militarium a few times inside? Just for the sake of my curiosity.
That is my issue, essentially. With the Adeptus Astartes it is still Codex Space Marines; most of the Imperial stuff has different technical designations, but changing the overarching designation to players seems somewhat jarring. They can call it what they want but after twenty five years of being Imperial Guard I have to imagine that is still what many will refer to them as.
Have to pick up the storm trooper codex, im rather liking these releases. Havent played this edition of 40k yet and this may get me back into the game. Actually haven't seen any of the hardback codexs, its been a while since I was in a gw store.
krazynadechukr wrote: All I'm saying is "Scion" doesn't sound like a very threatening or scary name. I think of cylon, scones, scion the car, sigh on, syphilis, etc...
You hear Spetsnaz, Rangers, Delta Squad, SEALS, Marine Recon, Kommando, SpecOps, etc....It brings images of very highly trained warriors....
Because those are the names of groups of very highly trained warriors.
None of those names would be inherenty menacing taken completely out of context, most would just be nonsensical. Scion actually references their background.
Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of silly names going on here, that doesn't strike me as the worst of the bunch by any stretch though.
Dang, even the Ogryns look awesome! For me this release looks fantastic, so I'm pretty damn happy I have the allies table as an excuse to one day pick up some of those models
Spinner wrote: if they still called the book "Imperial Guard" and just used Astra Militarium a few times inside? Just for the sake of my curiosity.
That is my issue, essentially. With the Adeptus Astartes it is still Codex Space Marines; most of the Imperial stuff has different technical designations, but changing the overarching designation to players seems somewhat jarring. They can call it what they want but after twenty five years of being Imperial Guard I have to imagine that is still what many will refer to them as.
I've said this a few times in various places before, but I'm going to say it again in all seriousness.
When I get my codex, I'm going to alter the front cover to say "Imperial Guard" instead of "Astra Militarum".
So, what are the odds that the new Ogryns are going be a really expensive, slow "elite"-sized assault unit that no one's going to use because it's an expensive, slow "elite"-sized assault unit?
BlaxicanX wrote: So, what are the odds that the new Ogryns are going be a really expensive, slow "elite"-sized assault unit that no one's going to use because it's an expensive, slow "elite"-sized assault unit?
With this type of games design it's no wonder GW is destined to go under.
BlaxicanX wrote: So, what are the odds that the new Ogryns are going be a really expensive, slow "elite"-sized assault unit that no one's going to use because it's an expensive, slow "elite"-sized assault unit?
Yeah, if only they had a way to move faster...like an armored vehicle of some kind...
Spinner wrote: if they still called the book "Imperial Guard" and just used Astra Militarium a few times inside? Just for the sake of my curiosity.
That is my issue, essentially. With the Adeptus Astartes it is still Codex Space Marines; most of the Imperial stuff has different technical designations, but changing the overarching designation to players seems somewhat jarring. They can call it what they want but after twenty five years of being Imperial Guard I have to imagine that is still what many will refer to them as.
Actually, according to rumors, the next Space Marine update will be called Codex: Adeptus Astartes. It's just that this change was made after their latest codex was published, hence Codex: Adepta Sororitas and now Codex: Astra Militarum. Note that the newest Space Marine release wasn't labeled "Space Marine Storm Wing", but "Adeptus Astartes Storm Wing." The change has already been made.
All I'm saying is "Scion" doesn't sound like a very threatening or scary name. I think of cylon, scones, scion the car, sigh on, syphilis, etc...
You hear Spetsnaz, Rangers, Delta Squad, SEALS, Marine Recon, Kommando, SpecOps, etc....It brings images of very highly trained warriors....
You're trying to apply an objective measure to something entirely subjective. For instance, somebody might look at your list of what evokes highly trained warriors, see the word "SEALs", and think whiskered sea creature which isn't particularly menacing or tough. Scion, on the other hand, would evoke some impressive imagery to others. It certainly does to me, as I'm familiar with the word, and every time I've seen it used it was for something important. And if you think of "syphilis" when you hear the word Scion then that sounds more like a personal problem unique to you. Nevermind that Spetsnaz, SEALs, and SpecOps sound more like syphilis than Scion...
BlaxicanX wrote: So, what are the odds that the new Ogryns are going be a really expensive, slow "elite"-sized assault unit that no one's going to use because it's an expensive, slow "elite"-sized assault unit?
Yeah, if only they had a way to move faster...like an armored vehicle of some kind...
That wasn't composed of ass.....way over priced.....and probably not great rules wise.....
BlaxicanX wrote: So, what are the odds that the new Ogryns are going be a really expensive, slow "elite"-sized assault unit that no one's going to use because it's an expensive, slow "elite"-sized assault unit?
Yeah, if only they had a way to move faster...like an armored vehicle of some kind...
You mean like a Land Raider equivelent?
Yeah, those land raiders really make SM's slow, "elite-sized" points-heavy assault units competit-
Oh wait no it doesn't.
Unless you can get a full squad of Ogryns and the transport (which needs the assault vehicle rule) for under 200 points, the chances of it being a competitive unit are pretty low.
BlaxicanX wrote: So, what are the odds that the new Ogryns are going be a really expensive, slow "elite"-sized assault unit that no one's going to use because it's an expensive, slow "elite"-sized assault unit?
Yeah, if only they had a way to move faster...like an armored vehicle of some kind...
That wasn't composed of ass.....way over priced.....and probably not great rules wise.....
Way Overpriced? It's 29 pounds. That's about average. In fact, that's 2 pounds less than the ghost ark.
BlaxicanX wrote: So, what are the odds that the new Ogryns are going be a really expensive, slow "elite"-sized assault unit that no one's going to use because it's an expensive, slow "elite"-sized assault unit?
Yeah, if only they had a way to move faster...like an armored vehicle of some kind...
That wasn't composed of ass.....way over priced.....and probably not great rules wise.....
Chief Librarian Mephiston wrote: Actually, according to rumors, the next Space Marine update will be called Codex: Adeptus Astartes.
Considering the current edition is barely seven months old I don't think we need to worry much about the (also not on the horizon) 7th edition release of the codex quite yet.
krazynadechukr wrote: All I'm saying is "Scion" doesn't sound like a very threatening or scary name. I think of cylon, scones, scion the car, sigh on, syphilis, etc...
You hear Spetsnaz, Rangers, Delta Squad, SEALS, Marine Recon, Kommando, SpecOps, etc....It brings images of very highly trained warriors....
I mean, they could be called Spartans, or Imperial Legionnaires, or Keshiks, or Green Berets, or Rapid Assault Force, or just something that paints a vivid picture of an elite fighting force....
Sorry, not enough... You are telling me that fluffy and great description of the status (I guess its connected to original ST fluff with orphans in Schola Progenium, where are brainwashed and forged into killing machine) is worse than hurr durr second rate B-movie clichéd names like "Spartans"? Because it reminds you syphilis... yeah...right...they should be named "Teabagging Demonrapers With Huge Balls" and carve their names into lesser demons hearts...
Sorry, but this is thing I cant digest. Instead of original, good and badass name (we are descendants of dead and we are here for payback...or whatever we are told) some people would like hundred times used cliches without any connection to fluff.
Chief Librarian Mephiston wrote: Actually, according to rumors, the next Space Marine update will be called Codex: Adeptus Astartes.
Considering the current edition is barely seven months old I don't think we need to worry much about the (also not on the horizon) 7th edition release of the codex quite yet.
Doesn't change the point. Codex: Space Marines will be renamed in time. It's not going to be an exception to this.
krazynadechukr wrote: All I'm saying is "Scion" doesn't sound like a very threatening or scary name. I think of cylon, scones, scion the car, sigh on, syphilis, etc...
You hear Spetsnaz, Rangers, Delta Squad, SEALS, Marine Recon, Kommando, SpecOps, etc....It brings images of very highly trained warriors....
I mean, they could be called Spartans, or Imperial Legionnaires, or Keshiks, or Green Berets, or Rapid Assault Force, or just something that paints a vivid picture of an elite fighting force....
Sorry, not enough... You are telling me that fluffy and great description of the status (I guess its connected to original ST fluff with orphans in Schola Progenium, where are brainwashed and forged into killing machine) is worse than hurr durr second rate B-movie clichéd names like "Spartans"? Because it reminds you syphilis... yeah...right...they should be named "Teabagging Demonrapers With Huge Balls" and carve their names into lesser demons hearts...
Sorry, but this is thing I cant digest. Instead of original, good and badass name (we are descendants of dead and we are here for payback...or whatever we are told) some people would like hundred times used cliches without any connection to fluff.
Your emotional outburst is appreciated, but the name "Militarum Tempestus Scions" still sucks. The models aren't much better. Deal with it.
Chief Librarian Mephiston wrote: Actually, according to rumors, the next Space Marine update will be called Codex: Adeptus Astartes.
Considering the current edition is barely seven months old I don't think we need to worry much about the (also not on the horizon) 7th edition release of the codex quite yet.
Doesn't change the point. Codex: Space Marines will be renamed in time. It's not going to be an exception to this.
Why did they name the Knight book Codex: Imperial Knights then? "Imperial Knight" isn't something they can trademark, so can you fill us in with the information why they didn't name them "Adeptus Knighticus" or some equally moronic title?
Therion wrote: Your emotional outburst is appreciated, but the name "Militarum Tempestus Scions" still sucks. The models aren't much better. Deal with it.
Subjective opinions are subjective, and people have different opinions. Deal with it.
It's a little wordy and sounds better with just the one word, rather like Valkyrie Assault Carrier. Doesn't mean that "Scions" isn't a neat name, fit with the background, or is bad. Subjectivity is our friend.
Therion wrote: Your emotional outburst is appreciated, but the name "Militarum Tempestus Scions" still sucks. The models aren't much better. Deal with it.
Subjective opinions are subjective, and people have different opinions. Deal with it.
I'm dealing with it just fine. You're welcome to spending your money on trash, and when you do I won't come facepalming like the person I replied to would.
Therion wrote: Your emotional outburst is appreciated, but the name "Militarum Tempestus Scions" still sucks. The models aren't much better. Deal with it.
Subjective opinions are subjective, and people have different opinions. Deal with it.
I'm dealing with it just fine. You're welcome to spending your money on trash, and when you do I won't come facepalming like the person I replied to would.
Your posts would indicate otherwise, as you seem to be raging pretty hard over an inability to grasp that people have differing opinions.
To whomever said they think Ogryns will be 5/$50 like the Wraithguard box, I doubt it. I figure it'll be 3/$60 or $70ish, more in line with Centurions or Crisis Suit Teams.
There's no way it's a reasonably priced box. People have been clamouring for it for too long.
Therion wrote: Your emotional outburst is appreciated, but the name "Militarum Tempestus Scions" still sucks. The models aren't much better. Deal with it.
Subjective opinions are subjective, and people have different opinions. Deal with it.
I'm dealing with it just fine. You're welcome to spending your money on trash, and when you do I won't come facepalming like the person I replied to would.
Your posts would indicate otherwise, as you seem to be raging pretty hard over an inability to grasp that people have differing opinions.
SRSFACE wrote: To whomever said they think Ogryns will be 5/$50 like the Wraithguard box, I doubt it. I figure it'll be 3/$60 or $70ish, more in line with Centurions or Crisis Suit Teams.
There's no way it's a reasonably priced box. People have been clamouring for it for too long.
Perhaps, but aren't centurions and suits also much larger than Ogryns?
Your last half-dozen posts. For a guy who claims he's "dealing with it" just fine, you sure seem like someone who feels the need to tell people how wrong their opinion is. That's the opposite of dealing with it.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
SRSFACE wrote: To whomever said they think Ogryns will be 5/$50 like the Wraithguard box, I doubt it. I figure it'll be 3/$60 or $70ish, more in line with Centurions or Crisis Suit Teams.
There's no way it's a reasonably priced box. People have been clamouring for it for too long.
Yeah, my thinking is it'll be about the price of a squad of Centurions for the same number of models. MAYBE a little cheaper as the amount of bits is likely a lot less than the Centurions (I.E. Tons of small fiddly bits).
Your last half-dozen posts. For a guy who claims he's "dealing with it" just fine, you sure seem like someone who feels the need to tell people how wrong their opinion is. That's the opposite of dealing with it.
I asked for examples. Of course we both know that you won't find any posts where I'm telling someone how wrong his opinion is, but I'll wait for those examples anyway. The least it'll do is have you posting more inane strawmen to keep everyone entertained.
Therion wrote: Your emotional outburst is appreciated, but the name "Militarum Tempestus Scions" still sucks. The models aren't much better. Deal with it.
Subjective opinions are subjective, and people have different opinions. Deal with it.
I'm dealing with it just fine. You're welcome to spending your money on trash, and when you do I won't come facepalming like the person I replied to would.
There is a difference though in being a jerk about yourself and disagreeing. I on the other hand love these new Scions and want them as a Guardsmen squad version so I can spam the hell out of them.
<Insert take my Guard money here>
That weird transport has grown on me a bit but I still prefer Chimeras. That is far to tall for me.
Your last half-dozen posts. For a guy who claims he's "dealing with it" just fine, you sure seem like someone who feels the need to tell people how wrong their opinion is. That's the opposite of dealing with it.
Therion wrote: Your emotional outburst is appreciated, but the name "Militarum Tempestus Scions" still sucks. The models aren't much better. Deal with it.
Subjective opinions are subjective, and people have different opinions. Deal with it.
I'm dealing with it just fine. You're welcome to spending your money on trash, and when you do I won't come facepalming like the person I replied to would.
krazynadechukr wrote: All I'm saying is "Scion" doesn't sound like a very threatening or scary name. I think of cylon, scones, scion the car, sigh on, syphilis, etc...
You hear Spetsnaz, Rangers, Delta Squad, SEALS, Marine Recon, Kommando, SpecOps, etc....It brings images of very highly trained warriors....
I mean, they could be called Spartans, or Imperial Legionnaires, or Keshiks, or Green Berets, or Rapid Assault Force, or just something that paints a vivid picture of an elite fighting force....
Sorry, not enough... You are telling me that fluffy and great description of the status (I guess its connected to original ST fluff with orphans in Schola Progenium, where are brainwashed and forged into killing machine) is worse than hurr durr second rate B-movie clichéd names like "Spartans"? Because it reminds you syphilis... yeah...right...they should be named "Teabagging Demonrapers With Huge Balls" and carve their names into lesser demons hearts...
Sorry, but this is thing I cant digest. Instead of original, good and badass name (we are descendants of dead and we are here for payback...or whatever we are told) some people would like hundred times used cliches without any connection to fluff.
Your emotional outburst is appreciated, but the name "Militarum Tempestus Scions" still sucks. The models aren't much better. Deal with it.
Chief Librarian Mephiston wrote: Actually, according to rumors, the next Space Marine update will be called Codex: Adeptus Astartes.
Considering the current edition is barely seven months old I don't think we need to worry much about the (also not on the horizon) 7th edition release of the codex quite yet.
Doesn't change the point. Codex: Space Marines will be renamed in time. It's not going to be an exception to this.
Why did they name the Knight book Codex: Imperial Knights then? "Imperial Knight" isn't something they can trademark, so can you fill us in with the information why they didn't name them "Adeptus Knighticus" or some equally moronic title?
Yep, you totally are as cool as a cucumber. No vitriol here. None at all.
Your last half-dozen posts. For a guy who claims he's "dealing with it" just fine, you sure seem like someone who feels the need to tell people how wrong their opinion is. That's the opposite of dealing with it.
I asked for examples. Of course we both know that you won't find any posts where I'm telling someone how wrong his opinion is, but I'll wait for those examples anyway. The least it'll do is have you posting more inane strawmen to keep everyone entertained.
BunkerBob wrote: There is a difference though in being a jerk about yourself and disagreeing. I on the other hand love these new Scions and want them as a Guardsmen squad version so I can spam the hell out of them.
<Insert take my Guard money here>
Case in point.
And agreed. I rather like the models, and it appears that they'll have several variant heads, including fully helmeted heads, judging from the box. Hopefully these guys can be used as Veterans. If so, then I'm looking forward to having entire guard squads in carapace armor using this kit.
Still waiting. Oh wait, was this a trap? When I wrote 'Still waiting' I added one more post where I told you how wrong your opinion was? Oh you clever you!
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Ok doke then.
Which one of the posts you quoted have absolutely anything to do with your opinion, not to mention me claiming that your opinion is wrong? All I see is me stating my opinion. The names are bad and the models are bad.
SRSFACE wrote: To whomever said they think Ogryns will be 5/$50 like the Wraithguard box, I doubt it. I figure it'll be 3/$60 or $70ish, more in line with Centurions or Crisis Suit Teams.
There's no way it's a reasonably priced box. People have been clamouring for it for too long.
Perhaps, but aren't centurions and suits also much larger than Ogryns?
Not particularly. Ogryns are larger than Terminators, but probably a little smaller than centurions. Akin to Crisis Teams.
Crisis teams are $65, but these guys look like they have more options. I'm guessing it'll be about $68 bucks. I'm hopeful it won't be much more than that.
SRSFACE wrote: Crisis teams are $65, but these guys look like they have more options. I'm guessing it'll be about $68 bucks. I'm hopeful it won't be much more than that.
Hive Guard have about the same size and less options, a box of 3 costs 70$.
So I expect a box of 3 Ogryns for 70$ as well. Double the Scions for double the size.
Would also make them more expensive than 3 metal Ogryns.
SRSFACE wrote: Crisis teams are $65, but these guys look like they have more options. I'm guessing it'll be about $68 bucks. I'm hopeful it won't be much more than that.
Hive Guard have about the same size and less options, a box of 3 costs 70$. So I expect a box of 3 Ogryns for 70$ as well. Double the Scions for double the size.
Wouldn't that be 5 Ogryns for 70 then, as there are 5 scions in a box?
I love the new Ogryns, and the Hyrda is awesome. Only disappointing thing so far is that Tempestus vehicle, but even that can be good if you pop wheels on it.
Hopefully they get the "IG have to field so many flippin' models their guys are given a bit of a monetary discount kind of sort of" but the way this entire 6E release has gone, doubtful.
I have to say I'm still pleased with the releases themselves. I like how derpy the Ogryns look, and I really like the super stormtrooper dudes. And I also really, really like that APC, which I know I'll get crap for but whatever. It's funny how Warhammer 40k fans on the internet are so demonstrative in decrying things and trying to get everyone else to admit their opinion is "best" but in person most people whistle a different tune.
dkellyj wrote: Glad I used the WFB Ogres and just converted my own. GW has a great baseline kit with the Ogres and totally screwed the pooch.
Seriously?
While some of the metals were ok, the plastic range for the OK Ogres are ghastly models. I've built one Ogryn conversion from those kits, but I did it by covering over the head and chest with putty. They're also way too big for 40K Ogryn.
I am sure the new Ogryns will be gak in terms of value for dollar as I have no intention of purchasing them myself unless they have mind blowing rules for assault that gives them an AP2 assault weapon and doesn't make them more costly than terminators.
Oops I am looking far to down that pipe dream I call value again, bad me. I still want those troopers.
BlaxicanX wrote: Well of course. It's alot easier to deal with angry GW apologists online than face-to-face.
And here I was thinking the angriest people were the ones bashing GW at every corner, not the ones who defend them.
I know. That's why I said that.
BunkerBob wrote: I am sure the new Ogryns will be gak in terms of value for dollar as I have no intention of purchasing them myself unless they have mind blowing rules for assault that gives them an AP2 assault weapon and doesn't make them more costly than terminators.
Oops I am looking far to down that pipe dream I call value again, bad me. I still want those troopers.
Yeah... I'm more concerned about their durability than anything. They're already going to be slow and at the mercy of a transport to reach their target. We live in a post-Eldar "lulz pseudo-rending on everything" world where a unit simply having T5 and a few wounds isn't enough.
I'm hoping those shields give an invulnerable save, but anything worse than a 4++ will make them dead meat the moment they hop out of a transport.
Giving them the same statline they have now, but for 20ppm and the option to take a 4++ shield for an additional 10ppm, would make them usable.
I still want a size comparison to Chimeras from this new transport. I mean how super is this thing? It has a TL assault cannon for bloody infantries sake! So far this thing is as intimidating as a reheated pasta dish from last nights cooking. I am enjoying the detail on it but it is not intimidating to say the least AND the new stormtrooper command squad is disembarking from a vendetta/valkyrie! Sidenote, that Commissar from the new book cover better be a replacement for the current ones down the road. He is awesome.
BunkerBob wrote: I still want a size comparison to Chimeras from this new transport. I mean how super is this thing? It has a TL assault cannon for bloody infantries sake! So far this thing is as intimidating as a reheated pasta dish from last nights cooking. I am enjoying the detail on it but it is not intimidating to say the least AND the new stormtrooper command squad is disembarking from a vendetta/valkyrie! Sidenote, that Commissar from the new book cover better be a replacement for the current ones down the road. He is awesome.
I thought it was a twin linked punisher cannon...
They arent that big especially the ones on my vulture. But big enough to suggest the size of that vehicle.
The Baal Predator gun barrels are far closer than the spam fest of the Punisher Cannon, and I hope this does not over ride my Punisher as I sit Pask in it for a reason!
AGH! Jesus, people are seriously horrified by the new heads?
Not getting the hate for the tank treads either.
It is almost as if people have different opinions than yours!
I guess the real point here is that, for the most part, Ogryns have always been less then impressive - both in terms of models and rules!
I live in a Truman Show-esque world where everything happens for my express benefit. To rephrase, noone has explained why they think tank tread armor doesn't suit the look of the Ogryn.
Getting a little touchy there Alph, your SHIELD cat-suit must be riding up again.
What the hell does that even mean?
Anyway...
The Ogryns are wearing armor that is clearly made for them...and then they have tank treads slapped on too?
BunkerBob wrote: The Baal Predator gun barrels are far closer than the spam fest of the Punisher Cannon, and I hope this does not over ride my Punisher as I sit Pask in it for a reason!
My bets on a punisher cannon personally. I dont really know what the assault cannon looks like, I saw one once and it looked a lot different to that. But I have only seen one before.
But yea it looks like a punisher cannon to the best of my knowledge.
I dont really know what the assault cannon looks like, I saw one once and it looked a lot different to that. But I have only seen one before.
Wha?
They're on terminators, land speeders, two Land Raider variants, Baal Predators, storm talons, Storm ravens... and that's just off the top of my head without thinking.
There's nothing wrong with makeshift armour. But that's not what these guys are wearing. The rest of their outfit is clearly mass-produced, production-line stuff... that for some reason has tank treads as a belly plate.
The tank treads would have worked fine on more ramshackle armour for mercenaries. For Guard Ogryn in what appears to be purpose-built armour? It makes no sense, and looks weird.
Other than the tank tracks, the armour looks great. I'm also not a fan of the stumpy legs, and the moustache guy appears to have a shrunken right forearm... But otherwise, these guys are growing on me. It would be awesome if there are enough of the gasmask heads to do a full squad...
I dont really know what the assault cannon looks like, I saw one once and it looked a lot different to that. But I have only seen one before.
Wha?
They're on terminators, land speeders, two Land Raider variants, Baal Predators, storm talons, Storm ravens... and that's just off the top of my head without thinking.
You sure?
I hate space marines. A lot. And only very recently has someone collected in my club marines but I think my friends obliterators have them. So yea just once. Noone has any of the vehicles you mentioned from what I can tell.
So I'm guessing this is pretty much all we're getting? 2 vehicles and 2 infantry units?
Disappointed. I would have liked another tank and another flyer, but I guess the flyer was a bit much to ask given we already have the Valk.
They seriously should have just brought out a DKOK plastic kit. That would have been a license to print money.
I like the new Ogryns all except for the armour. Seriously, tank track loincloth? Who's brilliant idea was that? Not sure if I'll buy them though, they've never really found a place in my army.
But I was never a fan of the old Ogryns, also not a fan of the Fantasy Ogres.
Hydra looks cool... basically what I was expecting given that FW already has a Hydra model.
Still think the Taurox looks terrible. Still think the Stormies look "okay" but vastly too expensive.
