ressgonzol wrote:
I have the codex in hand.

Platoon infantry squads cost 40 pts now but no longer can take ANY special weapons.

Platoon Command Squads and Company Command Squads - points values and access to Special Weapons?

 Blacksails wrote:

ressgonzol wrote:
I have the codex in hand.

Platoon infantry squads cost 40 pts now but no longer can take ANY special weapons.

Wow, that's pretty weak on GW's behalf.

For everything good in this book, there's at least one thing that's not good.

Also, they don't get boots and so auto-fail dangerous terrain tests.

And they are on fire.

 Blacksails wrote:

ressgonzol wrote:
I have the codex in hand.

Platoon infantry squads cost 40 pts now but no longer can take ANY special weapons.

Wow, that's pretty weak on GW's behalf.

For everything good in this book, there's at least one thing that's not good.

Don't know if his word is reliable, this is the guy's first post unlike Inquisitor Jex.

 Crablezworth wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:
Well, Hellhounds and variants still aren't good.

Bleh.

Ah well, vets have three specials, which is nice, but the two firing ports on the Chimera hurts them in a not insignificant way.

Russ costs are nice.

Banewolf's are pretty good.

130pts for an AV12 AP3 flamer with no torrent? It'll be great as a defense against drop pods, but that's a lot of points otherwise. I haven't seen one on a table since 5E.

 Crablezworth wrote:


Banewolf's are pretty good.

130pts for a tank that needs to be within counter charge/melta range that excels at killing MEQ units is hardly good or anything to be excited about. Its the same as it is now, and they're currently not good.

If it had torrent, it'd be passable, but its still too expensive for the firepower it puts out, especially now with cheap Russes starting at 120pts.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vaktathi wrote:
130pts for an AV12 AP3 flamer with no torrent? It'll be great as a defense against drop pods, but that's a lot of points otherwise. I haven't seen one on a table since 5E.

Exactly. They're not good now, they weren't that great in 5th when vehicles were better, and staying the same isn't doing them any favours.

Hell, the Hellhound is now more expensive than the Eradicator, who both have functionally the same weapon!

 Mr.Omega wrote:

A few more:

1) Cost of a Basilisk?

2) Techpriest?

125
TPs are 40 pts, 0-3 (like priests and Primaris, commissars are 1 per CCS or PCS) They can give Power of the Machine Spirit for a turn to a vehicle at 12 inch (instead of shooting). Servitors are 10 pts a pop, HB 10, plasma cannon 15, one unti of servitor per TP, starts with 1, up to 5 max.

 Anpu42 wrote:
Rough Rider:
>I take it Rough Riders still get the Lance as standard Wargear.
>Do they still Cost the same?
>Is Gangus still an Option.

Platoons:
>Do they still use the same structure?
>How many Models and Heavy Weapons can Heavy Weapons Squads take?
>Special Weapons Squads???

1-yup.
2-55pts for 4+sgt, 11 for each extra..never used them, so you tell me.
3-Nope. Only special char are Kell, Creed, Straken, Yarrick, Nork

Platoon
1-Yup
2- same as before; 3 models form a squad, 5 squads per platoon.
3-Up to 3 per platoon, 30pts base cost, BUT..they got frags now.

Also, short of Sgts, no one got CCW, as (per BRB) if it's not lsited, they got a CCW.

Also, there's no author name in this one, only testers; so who knows who wrote that one..a committee I'd reckon..

 TheKbob wrote:
Are the Priests the Sisters Priests?

Vendettas 6 man deep for 170 pts?

Any pts changes for Manticores or Deathstrikes?

What special characters are in/out?

Any new models in the pictures to show off something like Rough Riders?

Can a list have two tank commanders?

Can I spam 18 Leman Russes and be all cool about it?

1-Yup, 170 for 6 man carry
2-Madicores +10, Deathstrike the same.
3-All out, except Creed, Kell, Straken, Nork, Yarrick and Pask
4-no picture of rough rider
5-since a tank commander counts as a HQ choice, and you can have 2 HQ per FoC..yes. Thoguth you Must have have at least 2 tanks: one if the Commander, the second is part of his squad (max 2, for a 3 tank squad as HQ)
6-Well, 15 actually (3 HS slot of 3 tanks, + 2 HQ of 3 tanks)

 Smitty wrote:
How about Send in the Next Wave? Is it in?

Send in the next wave is gone.

 Sir Bubbles wrote:


Are you talking about the cost in a Heavy Weapon Team in an Infantry Squad, or the cost in a Heavy Weapons Squad? Because in the current codex the prices for heavy weapons are different between an Infantry Squad and a HWS.

Yes, Heavy weapons now have a flat price, for HWT to IS to Vets to PCS and CCS. All from the same list.

 Trickstick wrote:
Any info you can give on the psykers, or access to divination?

Astropath got Telepathy, Primaris got Biomancy, Divination, Pyromancy Telekinesis (+25 pts for Mastery rank 2, 50pts base)

 BunkerBob wrote:
What about Chenkov and Al'Rahem?

Gone like the wind (hur hur)

thanks for the quote post btw, but I saw it as I was finished.

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:
Jex, it sounds like a Foot Veterans list would actually be pretty badass.

What are the three options for Veterans upgrades and what do they do? Thanks in advance.

How about the Manticore, is its weapon's stats still the same?

Oh those doctrines, my bad!

Grenadiers: gains carapace, 15
forward sentries: snare mines+camo gear 10
Demolitions: melta bomb+1 demo charge 30

StormEagle rockets are the same as before.12-120 range

 mr_bruno wrote:
Not to be a bother, but could you possibly post a photo of the new book just to alleviate my fear of having my leg pulled?

Still, you're a damned saint for all this info.

Sorry I got no camera here, and no, I got no cellphone, you just got to believe me on that.

 MrFlutterPie wrote:
Do Vets still have access to shotguns?

Thanks for posting all of this

Yes, for free

EDIT: PCS are 30 pts actually, and they can (still) take 4 special weapons
Infantry squads are 50 pts.

Ah okay thank you for the response, that's what I was beginning to think about the heavy weapons but it's nice to have it clarified.

It seems like ordnance russes are pretty screwed at those prices. I think Pask in a vanquisher, flanked by two exterminators, could be reasonably effective. Just make sure to bring a load of bubble wrap to keep things out of assault and melta range.

I am looking forward to this release. For a year or two I have been trying to get russes, conscripts and stormtroopers to work well as an army. This could be quite effective now.

Inquisitor Jex wrote:

Do Leman Russes have something to the effect of "Lumbering Behemoth"?

I forgot about the Priests: not sure if they are the same as the sister's but they can only take 2 wargear now

plasmagun at 15 and...an autogun for free!

Autogun which is listed in the BRB, not in the weapon list at the end. It also doesn't replace any weapons, so you basically can always take it and be useful at 12-24 (but don't get to use the FRFSRF)

 Smitty wrote:

Inquisitor Jex wrote:

Do Leman Russes have something to the effect of "Lumbering Behemoth"?

nope,. they are heavy vehicles, so forget sponsons for LRBT and demolishers...

Lascanon in the hull is 10 pts, so at least it's cheaper...
10 HF sponson
20 HB
20 MM
30 plasma canons

Thanks Jex.

Is it true that the Platoon Squads can't take Special Weapons?

As in the only specials are in Command Squads and Special Weapon Squads?

Inquisitor Jex our hero!! Thanks so much its finally all out... btw how much is Yarrick this time?

Hmm, Techpriests sound quite interesting now. At 40 points a pop, you're capable of repairing vehicles, you can give POTMS for split fire on any vehicle or let any stunned/shaken vehicle fire at full BS, and you get units of 10 point Heavy Bolter servitors, so say 50 pts for 5 Heavy Bolters at BS3 with 4+ armour is quite reasonable.

Jex thanks a lot.


What about Harker?

I could have sworn somebody was talking about Harker in this codex...

 Trickstick wrote:
It seems like ordnance russes are pretty screwed at those prices. I think Pask in a vanquisher, flanked by two exterminators, could be reasonably effective. Just make sure to bring a load of bubble wrap to keep things out of assault and melta range.

I am looking forward to this release. For a year or two I have been trying to get russes, conscripts and stormtroopers to work well as an army. This could be quite effective now.

Techpriests giving POTMS can technically let an Ordnance Russ fire everything at full BS if the one weapon full BS exception/in addition to loophole is exploited If I remember correctly

 Mr.Omega wrote:


Techpriests giving POTMS can technically let an Ordnance Russ fire everything at full BS if the one weapon full BS exception/in addition to loophole is exploited If I remember correctly

Would have been much easier to give them Lumbering Behemoth again.

Maaaaaaan... LRBT lost Lumbering Behemoth???

It's all give and take with this book.

Puscifer wrote:
Thanks Jex.

Is it true that the Platoon Squads can't take Special Weapons?

As in the only specials are in Command Squads and Special Weapon Squads?

No, infantry squads squads can still take special weapons...you can even get SWS

Zengu wrote:
Inquisitor Jex our hero!! Thanks so much its finally all out... btw how much is Yarrick this time?

145
Got a fixed Warlord trait (units in 12 inch of Yarrick don't take morale test for being under 25% casualties), preferred ennemy (Orks), can give 2 orders/turn, can be a warlord, iron will, eternal warrior, his power field gives him 4++, his bale eye no longer count as an additional weapon in melee (counts as a hot shot laspistol)

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:
Jex thanks a lot.


What about Harker?

I could have sworn somebody was talking about Harker in this codex...

Harker's in; 55pts to add to a vet squad..gives relentless to the unit, no longer have FnP, his heavy bolter is heavy 3 rending, but T 3.

Inquisitor Jex wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:
Any info you can give on the psykers, or access to divination?

Astropath got Telepathy, Primaris got Biomancy, Divination, Pyromancy Telekinesis (+25 pts for Mastery rank 2, 50pts base)

At last, I'll be able to use some psykers in the way I thought they should be used! A mastery 2 divination psyker sounds like fun. although probably not as good as inquisitors. I have to get that metal primaris painted up now.

How about the psyker battle squads? I heard they lost their overseer, can they have 10 models now? What do they do?

Thanks for this, you are making a lot of people happy. We can get a bit ravenous when it comes to information days before a codex release.

I'm not sure how to feel. There are plenty of big nerfs, but also some buffs.

The whole Chimera Hatch thing is a bit complicated for no good reason though, especially as I removed the Lasgun Arrays from my Chimeras because they look dinky as hell.

Poor misunderstood vanilla Russes. GW just doesn't get that vanilla Russes are awful these days. Looking forward to the other variants however. Pissed about the Executioner turret.. just so unnecessary.

Man, I just don't know.

 Sparkadia wrote:
I'm not sure how to feel. There are plenty of big nerfs, but also some buffs.

Man, I just don't know.

My feelings too.

Everything I want to be excited about is met with something I'm equally unhappy about.

 Sparkadia wrote:
...I removed the Lasgun Arrays from my Chimeras because they look dinky as hell.

Same here. I just thought that they looked better as fire point holes.

I was really hoping the ordnance Russes would get better, as they're my favourites. *sigh*

 Trickstick wrote:

Inquisitor Jex wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:
Any info you can give on the psykers, or access to divination?

Astropath got Telepathy, Primaris got Biomancy, Divination, Pyromancy Telekinesis (+25 pts for Mastery rank 2, 50pts base)

At last, I'll be able to use some psykers in the way I thought they should be used! A mastery 2 divination psyker sounds like fun. although probably not as good as inquisitors. I have to get that metal primaris painted up now.

How about the psyker battle squads? I heard they lost their overseer, can they have 10 models now? What do they do?

Thanks for this, you are making a lot of people happy. We can get a bit ravenous when it comes to information days before a codex release.

no problem and a pleasure; my bad about forgetting the PBS (never was one to use it)

It's now called a Wyrdvane Psykers (not even got an image!)

Act as a Brotherhood of Psykers (Mastery Lvl 1)
Biomancy, Divination, Pyromancy Telekinesis
5 for 60, up to 5 more for 12/psyker
That's it. No overseer, no grenade, only laspistol and flak.

They can take a Chimera or Taurox.

BTW, chimera is still amphibious and mobile command vehicle

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:
Jex thanks a lot.


What about Harker?

I could have sworn somebody was talking about Harker in this codex...

Harker is in, bastonne was lost (sadly)

Inquisitor Jex wrote:
Commissar rules about the execution is real: 1-2 opponent choose, 3+ you pick.
EDIT: added Creed/Straken/Harker info

Does this mean that you can pick any infantry character rather than an officer?

Thanks for the info Jex. You're my internet hero.

Can Infantry Squads still blob up in any way, or are they locked at 10 men?

 tjnorwoo wrote:

Inquisitor Jex wrote:
Commissar rules about the execution is real: 1-2 opponent choose, 3+ you pick.
EDIT: added Creed/Straken/Harker info

Does this mean that you can pick any infantry character rather than an officer?

Also does the Lord Commisar have this rule as well?

Inquisitor Jex wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:

Inquisitor Jex wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:
Any info you can give on the psykers, or access to divination?

Astropath got Telepathy, Primaris got Biomancy, Divination, Pyromancy Telekinesis (+25 pts for Mastery rank 2, 50pts base)

At last, I'll be able to use some psykers in the way I thought they should be used! A mastery 2 divination psyker sounds like fun. although probably not as good as inquisitors. I have to get that metal primaris painted up now.

How about the psyker battle squads? I heard they lost their overseer, can they have 10 models now? What do they do?

Thanks for this, you are making a lot of people happy. We can get a bit ravenous when it comes to information days before a codex release.

no problem and a pleasure; my bad about forgetting the PBS (never was one to use it)

It's now called a Wyrdvane Psykers (not even got an image!)

Act as a Brotherhood of Psykers (Mastery Lvl 1)
Biomancy, Divination, Pyromancy Telekinesis
5 for 60, up to 5 more for 12/psyker
That's it. No overseer, no grenade, only laspistol and flak.

They can take a Chimera or Taurox.

BTW, chimera is still amphibious and mobile command vehicle

What's the leadership of the PBS psykers?

Are Creed and Straken upgrades or can they be IC's

sorry, for the lack of quote, gonna take a shower; been a it for longer than thought!

Commissars got Ld 9, Lord got a 10. Both got the Summary Execution rule. The thing is, you roll once; you fail, you do any re-roll (like with a standard) and then you can opt (which means for me that it's not mandatory) to have to commissar shoot a poor sap to auto-pass the test.

Picking the model means you can have a guardsman take the bolt and pass the test..of course roll a 1-2, and it might be that autocannon, plasma gunner or officer that gets the bolt (and no, commissars can't replace the officer; need the 'voice of command' rule to give orders, which commissars lack)

The Wyrdvane Psykers got Ld 8

Also, blob is in the book. only IS can do it.

Creed, Kell, Straken are upgrades; Yarrick is an independant character, Nork is added to a CCS

I don't know how to feel about the chimera. The lasgun array will be good for getting pure shots out but thats less special weapons to fire. If I am reading it right and vets can still take three, I will be taking three just to ensure I can always fire something.

Sounds like command tanks have to be in squadrons, which sucks. Might have to rethink how I want to run that then. Demolishers went up by 5 points, won't stop me from running two.

Looks like IG can now absolutely FLOOD the board with cheap divination. Inquisitors no longer required.

I am not too upset that that the execution has a gets hot main gun, just means I will be running heavy bolter sponsons.

Trickstick wrote:

 Sparkadia wrote:
...I removed the Lasgun Arrays from my Chimeras because they look dinky as hell.

Same here. I just thought that they looked better as fire point holes.

I plasticarded mine up to be flat. I enjoyed the image of 5 dudes popping the hatch and laying waste, personally.

creeping-deth87 wrote:I was really hoping the ordnance Russes would get better, as they're my favourites. *sigh*

Truth, was really looking for a kind of Lumbering Behemoth, where Ordinance doesn't cause snapshooting. Or a severe point reduction, if this wasn't going to happen.

Blacksails wrote:

 Sparkadia wrote:
I'm not sure how to feel. There are plenty of big nerfs, but also some buffs.

Man, I just don't know.

My feelings too.

Everything I want to be excited about is met with something I'm equally unhappy about.

Precisely. Loving the Vet costs going down, but the Chimera changes are silly. Love the tank buffs (both via point reduction and Orders), but dislike the loss of varied artillery. Like the idea of Priests, but lost Marbo. I'm so conflicted.

Inquisitor Jex wrote:
BTW, chimera is still amphibious and mobile command vehicle

Thank god, at least there is that.

Oh good, the blob is back. I really enjoyed those endless challenge abuses, honest...

What are the power weapon options for squads now? Is it still "power weapon" or is it now power sword? Can special weapon squads take demo charges still, and at what cost?

Inquisitor Jex wrote:

Picking the model means you can have a guardsman take the bolt and pass the test..of course roll a 1-2, and it might be that autocannon...

Would that be 1 wound for Autocannon Teams or the equivalent of losing 2 guys? Not only do you lose the weapon, but you also lose an additional guy because reasons.

EDIT: That was poorly worded - I meant to say that it would suck losing the autocannon teams as you're not only losing the Weapon, but also the equivalent of 2 guarsman rather than 1.

 Happygrunt wrote:
I don't know how to feel about the chimera. The lasgun array will be good for getting pure shots out but thats less special weapons to fire. If I am reading it right and vets can still take three, I will be taking three just to ensure I can always fire something.

Sounds like command tanks have to be in squadrons, which sucks. Might have to rethink how I want to run that then. Demolishers went up by 5 points, won't stop me from running two.

Looks like IG can now absolutely FLOOD the board with cheap divination. Inquisitors no longer required.

I am not too upset that that the execution has a gets hot main gun, just means I will be running heavy bolter sponsons.

Squadrons are going to be brutal with Split Fire.

Cast Prescience on the squadron then Split Fire so you can shoot at different things...lets you use your psyker buffs more efficiently.

I'm thinking one 3-Russ squadron (Vanquisher w/ MM sponsons & LC and Tank Commander, 2x Punishers w/ Bolters), 1 Executioner w/ Bolter Sponsons, and 1 Manticore should round out the Heavy Support section.

For Troops, sprinkle foot Plasma Vets + 1 squad of Harker Vets. Give the foot vets Forward Sentries.

One CCS w/ 4x Melta Guns, in a Vendetta or Valk.

The commissar rules are also confusing me. Its nice they don't have to shoot an officer if you roll a 3+, but I'm not a fan of random mechanics like that.

Rolling more dice and tables are not a substitute for game design.

 Sparkadia wrote:

Inquisitor Jex wrote:

Picking the model means you can have a guardsman take the bolt and pass the test..of course roll a 1-2, and it might be that autocannon...

Would that be 1 wound for Autocannon Teams or the equivalent of losing 2 guys? Not only do you lose the weapon, but you also lose an additional guy because reasons.

I assume it is the same as the Tempestus book, so remove model.

If it wasn't for all of these cheap tanks. I am pretty sure I would have Guard to sell now. We are truly a faceless entity now, when we die we will not be missed.

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:
I'm thinking one 3-Russ squadron (Vanquisher w/ MM sponsons & LC and Tank Commander, 2x Punishers w/ Bolters), 1 Executioner w/ Bolter Sponsons, and 1 Manticore should round out the Heavy Support section.

I don't know, punishers and vanquishers don't have a lot of cross over. You will fail the split fire some times, or want to use the smoke order. I think that exterminators would be more balanced, as they have more synergy with the vanquisher. They are cheaper too.

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:

 Happygrunt wrote:
I don't know how to feel about the chimera. The lasgun array will be good for getting pure shots out but thats less special weapons to fire. If I am reading it right and vets can still take three, I will be taking three just to ensure I can always fire something.

Sounds like command tanks have to be in squadrons, which sucks. Might have to rethink how I want to run that then. Demolishers went up by 5 points, won't stop me from running two.

Looks like IG can now absolutely FLOOD the board with cheap divination. Inquisitors no longer required.

I am not too upset that that the execution has a gets hot main gun, just means I will be running heavy bolter sponsons.

Squadrons are going to be brutal with Split Fire.

Cast Prescience on the squadron then Split Fire so you can shoot at different things...lets you use your psyker buffs more efficiently.

I'm thinking one 3-Russ squadron (Vanquisher w/ MM sponsons & LC and Tank Commander, 2x Punishers w/ Bolters), 1 Executioner w/ Bolter Sponsons, and 1 Manticore should round out the Heavy Support section.

For Troops, sprinkle foot Plasma Vets + 1 squad of Harker Vets. Give the foot vets Forward Sentries.

One CCS w/ 4x Melta Guns, in a Vendetta or Valk.

I was hoping to run ONE tank as my HQ though. BS 4 vanquishers are cool, BS 3 ones are meh.

Really seems like IG are going to play like how nids are supposed to; Synergy will be key. Unlike nids, however, our synergy will come in the form of glorious armored treads.

As a quick random question, any HP changes in anything?

 Vaktathi wrote:
As a quick random question, any HP changes in anything?

That gives me pause, did our tanks loose HP to become cheaper too?

 Happygrunt wrote:
I was hoping to run ONE tank as my HQ though. BS 4 vanquishers are cool, BS 3 ones are meh.

I don't see why you can't have a single HQ tank. Is the army list entry not "Leman Russ Squadron" like in the current book, which is 1-3 Russes? A single russ is still bought as a squadron.

 Trickstick wrote:

 Happygrunt wrote:
I was hoping to run ONE tank as my HQ though. BS 4 vanquishers are cool, BS 3 ones are meh.

I don't see why you can't have a single HQ tank. Is the army list entry not "Leman Russ Squadron" like in the current book, which is 1-3 Russes? A single russ is still bought as a squadron.

I thought the dude with the codex said that the HQ tank had to be at least 2-3 tanks and couldn't be single. If it CAN be single, then I am very excited.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BunkerBob wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
As a quick random question, any HP changes in anything?

That gives me pause, did our tanks loose HP to become cheaper too?

I doubt it. I DOUBT IT I DOUBT IT!

OH EMPEROR, NOW I AM THINKING ABOUT IT!

 Happygrunt wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:

 Happygrunt wrote:
I was hoping to run ONE tank as my HQ though. BS 4 vanquishers are cool, BS 3 ones are meh.

I don't see why you can't have a single HQ tank. Is the army list entry not "Leman Russ Squadron" like in the current book, which is 1-3 Russes? A single russ is still bought as a squadron.

I thought the dude with the codex said that the HQ tank had to be at least 2-3 tanks and couldn't be single. If it CAN be single, then I am very excited.

I may have missed that bit, I was just going off the Black Library preview: "A Tank Commander starts the game in a Leman Russ tank, leading a Leman Russ Squadron.". In the current codex you technically still buy a "leman russ squadron", even if it only has one tank in it.

Inquisitor Jex wrote:
Heavy flamer is 10pts; and (har har!) if vets don't take it, they can still sport 3 Special Weapons instead of 2.

THANK GOD. Nerfing them to two specials and making a lot of armies illegal would have been stupid even by GW's standards. I might not have to give up on the new codex after all!

Yes, Executiooner gains Gets Hot for main weapon..

Sigh. What a stupid change. At least with the decrease in point cost you can buy a divination slave inquisitor to fix the problem and even give it an accuracy boost.

 Trickstick wrote:

 Happygrunt wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:

 Happygrunt wrote:
I was hoping to run ONE tank as my HQ though. BS 4 vanquishers are cool, BS 3 ones are meh.

I don't see why you can't have a single HQ tank. Is the army list entry not "Leman Russ Squadron" like in the current book, which is 1-3 Russes? A single russ is still bought as a squadron.

I thought the dude with the codex said that the HQ tank had to be at least 2-3 tanks and couldn't be single. If it CAN be single, then I am very excited.

I may have missed that bit, I was just going off the Black Library preview: "A Tank Commander starts the game in a Leman Russ tank, leading a Leman Russ Squadron.". In the current codex you technically still buy a "leman russ squadron", even if it only has one tank in it.

Since people in the public now have the book apparently, I believe it is now the previous codex .

 Happygrunt wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:

 Happygrunt wrote:
I was hoping to run ONE tank as my HQ though. BS 4 vanquishers are cool, BS 3 ones are meh.

I don't see why you can't have a single HQ tank. Is the army list entry not "Leman Russ Squadron" like in the current book, which is 1-3 Russes? A single russ is still bought as a squadron.

I thought the dude with the codex said that the HQ tank had to be at least 2-3 tanks and couldn't be single. If it CAN be single, then I am very excited.

Yeah, a single HQ Punisher or Vanquisher could really kick ass in it's designated role. Here's hoping.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BunkerBob wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
As a quick random question, any HP changes in anything?

That gives me pause, did our tanks loose HP to become cheaper too?

Then again, imagine 4HP Russes. Errmahlerd.

Eyjio wrote:
Oh good, the blob is back. I really enjoyed those endless challenge abuses, honest...

What are the power weapon options for squads now? Is it still "power weapon" or is it now power sword? Can special weapon squads take demo charges still, and at what cost?

Power Weapon still.

 Vaktathi wrote:
As a quick random question, any HP changes in anything?

Nope; everything's at 3 short of the Sentinels which are at 2.




HQ Tank commander MUST be at least 2 tanks (1 being the commander, the other being a 'generic' BS3 tank) and it can be maximum 3 tanks (1 Commander, 2 'generic' tanks)

Vehicles can also buy an Augur array for 25 pts; every friendly units (read: even allies it seems) hat deep strike within 6 inches don't scatter.

Support specialist also went up

Atropath 25
MoO 20
Officer of the Flleet 20

They all have a flak armour, 'nages and a DDW; can exchange CCw for a laspistol for free. All are WS3 BS4 Ld7 still.
Astropath's just a telepath
MoO got his bombardment (2d6 scatter, 3d6 is there's an arrow, if LoS, can lower the scatter by the MoO's BS)
OotF makes a Ld test every turn (not round) before reserve rolls; if passed can add+1 to your reserve rolls or -1 to your opponent's

 Peregrine wrote:

Inquisitor Jex wrote:
Heavy flamer is 10pts; and (har har!) if vets don't take it, they can still sport 3 Special Weapons instead of 2.

THANK GOD. Nerfing them to two specials and making a lot of armies illegal would have been stupid even by GW's standards. I might not have to give up on the new codex after all!

Yes, Executiooner gains Gets Hot for main weapon..

Sigh. What a stupid change. At least with the decrease in point cost you can buy a divination slave inquisitor to fix the problem and even give it an accuracy boost.

If rumors are true, you won't need an inquisitor to tag along. Sounds like the Primaris or PBS could do it too, those in metas where allies are frowned upon.

A 35pt reduction for the Executioner? Yes please! If Yarrik really can give orders I've got a hella fun idea that'll include him since he's an IC. Almost everything I've heard is a good thing. I think IG are actually good right now. This codex makes it look like they will be disgusting. 75pts for a level 2 Divination model? So good!

@Jex

Any truth to the rumor you have to buy your orders? If not are there any limitation on them like who can have what or how many? Thanks

 Peregrine wrote:

Inquisitor Jex wrote:
Heavy flamer is 10pts; and (har har!) if vets don't take it, they can still sport 3 Special Weapons instead of 2.

THANK GOD. Nerfing them to two specials and making a lot of armies illegal would have been stupid even by GW's standards. I might not have to give up on the new codex after all!

This is what I was most concerned about, along with the Chimera changes. 3 Specials are Vets whole identity, taking that away is just the worst kind of douchebaggery.

 Peregrine wrote:

Yes, Executiooner gains Gets Hot for main weapon..

Sigh. What a stupid change. At least with the decrease in point cost you can buy a divination slave inquisitor to fix the problem and even give it an accuracy boost.

Agreed. It seems to have been done because reasons, which is monumentally frustrating. The whole idea of the Executioner pattern was to avoid leaking Plasma all over the tank. Was there a change in cost for Plasma Sponsors? Might help recoup the costs for the Prescience Slave.

The Veteran thing seems so unwieldy and stupid. If they don't take a Heavy Flamer you can take 3 SW????
Can't we have more simple rules spelled in common English.
M.

Inquisitor Jex wrote:





HQ Tank commander MUST be at least 2 tanks (1 being the commander, the other being a 'generic' BS3 tank) and it can be maximum 3 tanks (1 Commander, 2 'generic' tanks)

Damn. I already have a battlecannon/ vanquisher/ punisher tank, might run dual vanquishers as an HQ (Keep it kind of cheap) and have some divination slaves running around to give them rerolls. Although having a pask-vanquisher and a normal vanquisher would fulfill my desire for SOLID anti tank weapons.

Support specialist also went up

Atropath 25
MoO 20
Officer of the Flleet 20

They all have a flak armour, 'nages and a DDW; can exchange CCw for a laspistol for free. All are WS3 BS4 Ld7 still.
Astropath's just a telepath
MoO got his bombardment (2d6 scatter, 3d6 is there's an arrow, if LoS, can lower the scatter by the MoO's BS)
OotF makes a Ld test every turn (not round) before reserve rolls; if passed can add+1 to your reserve rolls or -1 to your opponent's

AAANNNDDD the Officer of the Fleet got better and went DOWN in points. Thanks GW.

Honestly, I dont even know how to feel about this book. It is literally all over the place.

Same with the Chimera laser "arrays" ugh!

M.

 Miguelsan wrote:
The Veteran thing seems so unwieldy and stupid. If they don't take a Heavy Flamer you can take 3 SW????
Can't we have more simple rules spelled in common English.
M.

Following the last codex, this is still as it was before. The heavy flamer is just "special" in the new codex. Special as in a crash helmet kind of way.

Guys. Prescience will NOT save the Executioner from a gets hot test. Prescience makes you reroll to hit, but the BLAST weapon get hots tests are rolled for seperatly from shooting.

This officially makes vehicle mounted plasma MORE DANGEROUS that infantry wielded plasma, the complete opposite of how it was at the beginning of 5th.

So, they want SPACE MAREHNSSS to be safer from Guard plasma.

Relics: some are nice others are..meh..Only the Company Commander and Lord commissar can take those

The Emperor's Benediction S5AP4 bolt pistol (pistol, precision shot, master crafted) only 5 pts, but Lord Commissar only. (since ithe weapon got Precisioon shot, I suppose that means every shot got that rule, so no need to roll a 6)

Tactical auto-reliquary of Tyberius, Company Commander only 25 pts(any order by the officer with that relic roll that gets a double gets Inspired tactics, i.e no need to roll for orders this turn, all orders auto-passes. roll 2 ones though, and it gets turned off for the rest fo the game)

Laurels of Command Company Commander only 25 pts (when any unit at 6 inches of the bearer is required to make a morale check, the bearer decide if they pass or no. If the bear dies, everyone at 6 inch form the codex must make a pinning test)

Kurov's Aquila Company Commander only 60 pts (bearer and any codex unit at 6 inch gains preferred enemy; bearer can re-roll a single failed Ld test per turn)

Blade of Conquest, replace CCW, 25pts : a +1 AP3 Master-crafted power sword

Deathmask of Ollanus 30 pts: Bearer gains 4++, it will not die and Fear.

 Hulksmash wrote:

@Jex

Any truth to the rumor you have to buy your orders? If not are there any limitation on them like who can have what or how many? Thanks

nope; the only thing is that there are 3 senior officer orders only: bring it down, fire on my target and Get back in the fight. The other orders can be given by any model with the voice of command special rule

Miguelsan wrote:The Veteran thing seems so unwieldy and stupid. If they don't take a Heavy Flamer you can take 3 SW????
Can't we have more simple rules spelled in common English.
M.

The silly thing is that you can take 3 regular Flamers but as soon as you take a Heavy Flamer (apparently) the munitions officer is like "Look mate, you've got a Heavy Flamer, you can't take that as well as 2 other regular Flamers. That's just not cricket"

Miguelsan wrote:
...Same with the Chimera laser "arrays" ugh!

M.

Pretty much. Just leave it at 5 Fire Points GW, really. We don't need Arrays or any other mumbo-jumbo, just plain old Fire Points will do fine.

Happygrunt wrote:
Honestly, I dont even know how to feel about this book. It is literally all over the place.

I think this is how everyone feels. It's pretty nerve wracking reading everything and being like "Yes! no! Yay! WHY?!"

 Happygrunt wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

Inquisitor Jex wrote:
Heavy flamer is 10pts; and (har har!) if vets don't take it, they can still sport 3 Special Weapons instead of 2.

THANK GOD. Nerfing them to two specials and making a lot of armies illegal would have been stupid even by GW's standards. I might not have to give up on the new codex after all!

Yes, Executiooner gains Gets Hot for main weapon..

Sigh. What a stupid change. At least with the decrease in point cost you can buy a divination slave inquisitor to fix the problem and even give it an accuracy boost.

If rumors are true, you won't need an inquisitor to tag along. Sounds like the Primaris or PBS could do it too, those in metas where allies are frowned upon.

Inquisitor is Ld10 and gives servo skulls for more accurate scatters for 64pts, the PBS is Ld8 and 50pts. Inquisitors all the way.

Bad wording but, you can have a heavy flamer and 2 light flamers. Their just pants on head slowed in the wording.

The thing is the codex is like the SM one; there is a ranged/melee/special/Heavy list of items, but since they don't want every Is to sport a Str5 AP4 heavy flamer, they added it to certain units (CCS, PCS, Vets), but it is still a special weapon, just in it's own category so to speak...

Yeah, it's basically the same as 5th edition.

"Up to 3 veterans may take a special weapon. 1 Veteran may take a heavy flamer instead of a special weapon."

It's that kind of thing.

Yup, exactly that.

Does the Scion's hot shot volley gun have gets hot? It is inconsistent in the MT codex.

So company commanders can issue 2 orders platoon leaders can issue 1 correct?

Lascannon still 20 pts?

Can valk take las cannon? And rocket pods?

Is there benefit to taking additional psykers in a pbs, like more warp charge or something

Droppin the bomb
So I peeped the book today at a local store, rumors I can confirm and deny:
Vendettas price hike is legit, 170 and 6 man transport
Manticores price hike 170 pts
Griffon, medusa, and colossus are in fact dropped
Vets remain the same except grenadiers is now 15 pts, and camo cloaks are 10
Leman russes are still 150 bare bones, sorry
You can take an hq tank commander 30 pts however he has to be squadroned with at least 1 other Russ
Primaris psychers are now 1-3 per hq choice
Psycher battle squads are able to use divination, pyromancy, and one other I think telepathy
That's all I remember reading I only checked that main stuff.

Also, all of you guys complaining about the lasgun array, consider this:

They can fire at a different target as the chimera's other weapons, but all 3 on one side must fire at a single target.

Instead of 5 models firing from the top hatch at the same target, you have 3 models on each side of the chimera firing at 2 separate targets in addition to the 2 guys in the top hatch also firing at a different target. On top of that, you have the chimera itself firing at yet another target.

You have 4 different sets of weapons firing at different targets from 1 vehicle.

I don't know about you guys, but I think that is awesome. Another thing to consider is that when you think about it, the firing points didn't drop to 2 people...it increased to 8. That's pretty beast.

 Smitty wrote:


You have 4 different sets of weapons firing at different targets from 1 vehicle.

I don't know about you guys, but I think that is awesome.

You're missing the key aspect of this.

Lasguns

S3 isn't particularly exciting.

Inquisitor Jex wrote:

nope; the only thing is that there are 3 senior officer orders only: bring it down, fire on my target and Get back in the fight. The other orders can be given by any model with the voice of command special rule

I thought they cut these orders all together? Especially GBitF!

 kir44n wrote:
Guys. Prescience will NOT save the Executioner from a gets hot test. Prescience makes you reroll to hit, but the BLAST weapon get hots tests are rolled for seperatly from shooting.

Nope. Go check the rules for blast weapons and "gets hot" re-rolls. If you can re-roll to hit (like prescience grants) you can re-roll the die to see if a blast weapon gets hot. Unless the executioner's gun has some special rule that works kind of like "gets hot" but isn't the actual "gets hot" rule then it works just fine.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Blacksails wrote:
You're missing the key aspect of this.

Lasguns

S3 isn't particularly exciting.

This. Lasgun arrays are better than nothing, but it's still a nerf since you'd almost always get more benefit from having the extra heavy/special weapons shooting. I guess the idea is they want you to stop using Chimeras as mobile bunkers and actually disembark your melta vets occasionally.

 Blacksails wrote:

 Smitty wrote:


You have 4 different sets of weapons firing at different targets from 1 vehicle.

I don't know about you guys, but I think that is awesome.

You're missing the key aspect of this.

Lasguns

S3 isn't particularly exciting.

How are you not excited about lasguns?

 BunkerBob wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:

 Smitty wrote:


You have 4 different sets of weapons firing at different targets from 1 vehicle.

I don't know about you guys, but I think that is awesome.

You're missing the key aspect of this.

Lasguns

S3 isn't particularly exciting.

How are you not excited about lasguns?

This is the Imperial Guard! The lasgun is the holy wrath of The Emperor made manifest! Although one may fail, the combined might of a thousand can fell the greatest beasts in the galaxy!

 Peregrine wrote:

 kir44n wrote:
Guys. Prescience will NOT save the Executioner from a gets hot test. Prescience makes you reroll to hit, but the BLAST weapon get hots tests are rolled for seperatly from shooting.

Nope. Go check the rules for blast weapons and "gets hot" re-rolls. If you can re-roll to hit (like prescience grants) you can re-roll the die to see if a blast weapon gets hot. Unless the executioner's gun has some special rule that works kind of like "gets hot" but isn't the actual "gets hot" rule then it works just fine.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Blacksails wrote:
You're missing the key aspect of this.

Lasguns

S3 isn't particularly exciting.

This. Lasgun arrays are better than nothing, but it's still a nerf since you'd almost always get more benefit from having the extra heavy/special weapons shooting. I guess the idea is they want you to stop using Chimeras as mobile bunkers and actually disembark your melta vets occasionally.

And I have been corrected. Though with the cheapest Psyker being 50 points, that makes a psyker mandatory for the executioner. So this means the price decrease for the executioner is completely absorbed by its psychic babysitter.

 BunkerBob wrote:


How are you not excited about lasguns?

If it was a Lasgun array that was 50 shots, sure.

At 12", 6 shots is like a light tickling. Then again, you might distract your opponent long enough while they're laughing.

Jex please help! My army revolves around Creed...

Can you give me the full rules on him? Including:

- How many orders a turn?
- Points?
- Order Range?
- Special Rules?
- Addition Creed Orders?
- Anything else of note?

EDIT: Double post. No idea why

 Smitty wrote:
Also, all of you guys complaining about the lasgun array, consider this:

They can fire at a different target as the chimera's other weapons, but all 3 on one side must fire at a single target.

Instead of 5 models firing from the top hatch at the same target, you have 3 models on each side of the chimera firing at 2 separate targets in addition to the 2 guys in the top hatch also firing at a different target. On top of that, you have the chimera itself firing at yet another target.

You have 4 different sets of weapons firing at different targets from 1 vehicle.

I don't know about you guys, but I think that is awesome. Another thing to consider is that when you think about it, the firing points didn't drop to 2 people...it increased to 8. That's pretty beast.

Except that it's complicated. KISS principle GW! Instead of grabbing 10 dies (or whatever) and rolling on one target and done; now you go e.g. 2 against this target (melta vets), another 6 against those orks over there (1 array), the multilaser against the same target of the meltas, the second array can't target the guys in front but can caress some grots over the other side....
See how much I had to write to describe the new rule. This ruling, better or not, does not make for streamlined play.

M.

 Peregrine wrote:

 kir44n wrote:
Guys. Prescience will NOT save the Executioner from a gets hot test. Prescience makes you reroll to hit, but the BLAST weapon get hots tests are rolled for seperatly from shooting.

Nope. Go check the rules for blast weapons and "gets hot" re-rolls. If you can re-roll to hit (like prescience grants) you can re-roll the die to see if a blast weapon gets hot. Unless the executioner's gun has some special rule that works kind of like "gets hot" but isn't the actual "gets hot" rule then it works just fine.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Blacksails wrote:
You're missing the key aspect of this.

Lasguns

S3 isn't particularly exciting.

This. Lasgun arrays are better than nothing, but it's still a nerf since you'd almost always get more benefit from having the extra heavy/special weapons shooting. I guess the idea is they want you to stop using Chimeras as mobile bunkers and actually disembark your melta vets occasionally.

They are better than nothing. What I would have preferred is for them to let the top hatch allow for 3 guardsmen to fire instead of 2. I'm sure the lasgun arrays will bring about some surprises. It's certainly volume of fire, although it's not 3 special weapons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

AkhilleusK42 wrote:
EDIT: Double post. No idea why

I only see one post on my end. It happens to me sometimes. When in doubt, hover over the "Edit" button and see if the post number is the same. If it is, then it's not a double post.

Trickstick wrote:Does the Scion's hot shot volley gun have gets hot? It is inconsistent in the MT codex.

nope, they're not gets hot, but are Str3 ,except the volley gun which is Str4

RegulusBlack wrote:So company commanders can issue 2 orders platoon leaders can issue 1 correct?

Lascannon still 20 pts?

Can valk take las cannon? And rocket pods?

Is there benefit to taking additional psykers in a pbs, like more warp charge or something

1-Yes, both got a 12 inch range now.
2-for troope yes, for vehicles they are 10 pts
3-Yes, and yes for 10 pts each, so rockets are 20 pts cheaper this time around...really it seems like there's a Mechanicus fire sale somewhere everything for vehicles is cheaper.

it's brotherhood of psykers..so I don't know that rule..maybe more strength?

 Sparkadia wrote:

Inquisitor Jex wrote:

nope; the only thing is that there are 3 senior officer orders only: bring it down, fire on my target and Get back in the fight. The other orders can be given by any model with the voice of command special rule

I thought they cut these orders all together? Especially GBitF!

Well a senior officer can give them all, while a junior officer can only give 6 out of 9 of them.

 jae4x4 wrote:
Jex please help! My army revolves around Creed...

Can you give me the full rules on him? Including:

- How many orders a turn?
- Points?
- Order Range?
- Special Rules?
- Addition Creed Orders?
- Anything else of note?

Jaxx has already spilled that he's 80 points and issues 3 orders a turn, with re-rolls if any fail.

I also have a Q:

1) Are Scions in the Dex, and can they use C:AM orders? Are C:MT orders in the Dex, if yes and yes?

Yeah, they made the Chimera more complicated, less effective, and more expensive.

Great that it didn't get quite as hosed as we thought, but it's not like the lasgun shots are particularly impressive (at optimal range, with both arrays firing, you kill 2 guardsmen on average, or 2/3rds of a Marine), and it makes the Chimera just that more complicated to keep track of.

 Mr.Omega wrote:

 jae4x4 wrote:
Jex please help! My army revolves around Creed...

Can you give me the full rules on him? Including:

- How many orders a turn?
- Points?
- Order Range?
- Special Rules?
- Addition Creed Orders?
- Anything else of note?

Jaxx has already spilled that he's 80 points and issues 3 orders a turn, with re-rolls if any fail.

I also have a Q:

1) Are Scions in the Dex, and can they use C:AM orders? Are C:MT orders in the Dex, if yes and yes?

Yup, I answered that higher.

Scions are in the dex, with the command squad, like in WD, same value and gear and such, they can use the orders (since the Prime got the voice of command special rule, so 1 order/turn, but only him) and no their own orders from C:MT are not there.

 Smitty wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 kir44n wrote:
Guys. Prescience will NOT save the Executioner from a gets hot test. Prescience makes you reroll to hit, but the BLAST weapon get hots tests are rolled for seperatly from shooting.

Nope. Go check the rules for blast weapons and "gets hot" re-rolls. If you can re-roll to hit (like prescience grants) you can re-roll the die to see if a blast weapon gets hot. Unless the executioner's gun has some special rule that works kind of like "gets hot" but isn't the actual "gets hot" rule then it works just fine.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Blacksails wrote:
You're missing the key aspect of this.

Lasguns

S3 isn't particularly exciting.

This. Lasgun arrays are better than nothing, but it's still a nerf since you'd almost always get more benefit from having the extra heavy/special weapons shooting. I guess the idea is they want you to stop using Chimeras as mobile bunkers and actually disembark your melta vets occasionally.

They are better than nothing. What I would have preferred is for them to let the top hatch allow for 3 guardsmen to fire instead of 2. I'm sure the lasgun arrays will bring about some surprises. It's certainly volume of fire, although it's not 3 special weapons.

If it was 3 Hatch / 3 Left / 3 Right that would be boss. I'm not concerned about the loss of Lasgun shots, only that now the third Special Weapon Vet is twiddling his thumbs while in a Chimera.

Anyone know of good substitutes for rough riders?

Jex, I may have missed it, but was there any change to the pricing of Camo Netting, and does it still only apply if the vehicle is stationary?

-thanks!

 Sparkadia wrote:

 Smitty wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 kir44n wrote:
Guys. Prescience will NOT save the Executioner from a gets hot test. Prescience makes you reroll to hit, but the BLAST weapon get hots tests are rolled for seperatly from shooting.

Nope. Go check the rules for blast weapons and "gets hot" re-rolls. If you can re-roll to hit (like prescience grants) you can re-roll the die to see if a blast weapon gets hot. Unless the executioner's gun has some special rule that works kind of like "gets hot" but isn't the actual "gets hot" rule then it works just fine.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Blacksails wrote:
You're missing the key aspect of this.

Lasguns

S3 isn't particularly exciting.

This. Lasgun arrays are better than nothing, but it's still a nerf since you'd almost always get more benefit from having the extra heavy/special weapons shooting. I guess the idea is they want you to stop using Chimeras as mobile bunkers and actually disembark your melta vets occasionally.

They are better than nothing. What I would have preferred is for them to let the top hatch allow for 3 guardsmen to fire instead of 2. I'm sure the lasgun arrays will bring about some surprises. It's certainly volume of fire, although it's not 3 special weapons.

If it was 3 Hatch / 3 Left / 3 Right that would be boss. I'm not concerned about the loss of Lasgun shots, only that now the third Special Weapon Vet is twiddling his thumbs while in a Chimera.

Alternatively, it could be a plasma vet waiting for one of the others to vaporize himself.

 tjnorwoo wrote:
Anyone know of good substitutes for rough riders?

Model wise?

Victoria Miniatures has conversion kits for mounted Guardsmen, and she'll also be making a motorbike model for a more modern feel.

 tjnorwoo wrote:
Anyone know of good substitutes for rough riders?

Bretonian Empire or the Empire of Man or whatever their called now. Buy their box, jam Guardsmen torsos on there and let them ride.

Emperor save this person's poor soul should he be fibbin' us

Thanks for the data dump. Is there anything that you can see as standout overall? I feel like this is the Nids release Part 2. The new stuff isn't new enough, the deleted things that gave us flavor, fiddled with some stuff to make us change lists and called it a day.

I'm glad the Chimera isn't complete trash, but the new changes are tepid. Guass Flayer Arrays? Awesome! Chimera lasgun arrays? Meh? Just something else you'll probably forget to shoot.

I think this might be the book of Russ with some psykers buffing them. I know I'd probably run two Tank Commanders, two-three PBS, Vets in Chimera, Vendetta or Two (maybe stormtroopers in 'em), then Manticores. Just mech it up big time.

I want to see if something can come of hte new heavy ogryn, though. I dig the model a lot. I see making some great Fallout style conversions from them.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Jex, I may have missed it, but was there any change to the pricing of Camo Netting, and does it still only apply if the vehicle is stationary?

-thanks!

15 pts for every vehicle (so stable, or lower depending on which vehicle you put it on)

As for waht it does, it only states that it adds +1 to cover saves, and gives a +6 cover when it in the open; so move or not, you got that save.

As for what stands out..well there's a few new thigns here and there, but nothing major really; orders are the biggest thing with the Warlord traits I'd say.

Ogryns/bullgryns seems to pricey for assault units; you get a bunch of bullgryns with 12 inch grenade launchers and +1 armour save and giving a +1 cover save to wahteveR's behind them, or they get 5++ power mauls and re-roll HoW for a damn big price tag if you ask me.
Ogryns got price stabled at 40 each, bullgryn's 45 each, +15 for the bullshield and power maul.

Inquisitor Jex wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Jex, I may have missed it, but was there any change to the pricing of Camo Netting, and does it still only apply if the vehicle is stationary?

-thanks!

15 pts for every vehicle (so stable, or lower depending on which vehicle you put it on)

As for waht it does, it only states that it adds +1 to cover saves, and gives a +6 cover when it in the open; so move or not, you got that save.

Ok cool, so it's pretty much identical now to Holofields and the like in terms of price and functionality. That's nice at least. Though the units I'd have wanted it most for aren't in the book anymore

Thx for the responses,

1set of orders per unit I'm assuming
Can you issue orders into a vehicle
The priest doesn't have access to any cc weapons
Are or primaris psykers ICs

 RegulusBlack wrote:
Thx for the responses,

1set of orders per unit I'm assuming
Can you issue orders into a vehicle
The priest doesn't have access to any cc weapons
Are or primaris psykers ICs

Yes one order per unit, but again, that doesn't stop the unit giving the order to run, shoot or fire
Only the chimera got the mobile command vehicle, the taurox does not.
The Priest only got a basic CCW weapon and can only pick between a plasma gun for 15 or an autogun for free. at elast he's got frags.
Primaris are IC, so are commissar Lords, Priests and Yarrick and Tech-Priests.

 tjnorwoo wrote:
Anyone know of good substitutes for rough riders?

Victoria Lamb and some horses.

 Vaktathi wrote:

Inquisitor Jex wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Jex, I may have missed it, but was there any change to the pricing of Camo Netting, and does it still only apply if the vehicle is stationary?

-thanks!

15 pts for every vehicle (so stable, or lower depending on which vehicle you put it on)

As for waht it does, it only states that it adds +1 to cover saves, and gives a +6 cover when it in the open; so move or not, you got that save.

Ok cool, so it's pretty much identical now to Holofields and the like in terms of price and functionality. That's nice at least. Though the units I'd have wanted it most for aren't in the book anymore

Poor, poor Medusa. Sad times.

Was I on target ?

Thanks again jex

I should clarify are there restrictions when issuing orders to only dismounted troops (I.e. can I issue bring it down to my vets inside a chimera)

so they nerfed the crap out of creed....
lost an order
lost 12" to his orders
WHY!

 Sparkadia wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

Inquisitor Jex wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Jex, I may have missed it, but was there any change to the pricing of Camo Netting, and does it still only apply if the vehicle is stationary?

-thanks!

15 pts for every vehicle (so stable, or lower depending on which vehicle you put it on)

As for waht it does, it only states that it adds +1 to cover saves, and gives a +6 cover when it in the open; so move or not, you got that save.

Ok cool, so it's pretty much identical now to Holofields and the like in terms of price and functionality. That's nice at least. Though the units I'd have wanted it most for aren't in the book anymore

Poor, poor Medusa. Sad times.

Was I on target ?

Yup

I think they kinda had to nerf him. The orders and tanks are the saving grace to the book from what I can tell. Imagine creed telling 4 vet las cannon teams to ignore cover and outflanking your LRBT punisher squad with pask at the helm.... busted

 RegulusBlack wrote:
Thanks again jex

I should clarify are there restrictions when issuing orders to only dismounted troops (I.e. can I issue bring it down to my vets inside a chimera)

nope, just like last codex; cannot issue an order to a unit in a vehicle, locked in combat, gone to ground or running away (barring exceptions, i.e get back in the fight)

and really, with the warlord trait, you might just be able to outflank D3 unit with ANY commander..granted you got to roll a 1, but you got a 1/6 chance to pull a CREEEEEDDDD every game, maybe even 2 or 3!

 RegulusBlack wrote:
I think they kinda had to nerf him. The orders and tanks are the saving grace to the book from what I can tell. Imagine creed telling 4 vet las cannon teams to ignore cover and outflanking your LRBT punisher squad with pask at the helm.... busted

Lascannon is heavy 1, so that is 4 snap shots.

how many orders can pask issue
how many orders can a regular tank hq order

Do company command squads still have camo cloak and/or carapace armor options?
Who can get a medic and how much?
Are the Straken/Creed costs on top of the CCS squad or instead of?
Does anybody have access to combi-weapons?
Do Ogryn still have Furious Charge?
Do Heavy Weapon Squads pay the same price for their guns as Infantry Squads?
Are Special Weapon Squads still 6 men/3 special weapons?

Thanks.

So not enough done to Ogryns to really make them more than something to look at?

That's... sad.

This book seems drab. Not like olive drab, but just... drab drab. It's not like the old days of "OMG, did you hear... the Wolves are getting friggen' dudes that RIDE WOLVES?!" Like silly grimdark gone too far.

This is just... boring? A Tank Army is pretty awesome, not going to lie. Just feels like it's missing some flavor. It's like salt and pepper. Yes, they can make any meal better, but sometimes you really want smoked sea salt and cracked white pepper.

 TheKbob wrote:
So not enough done to Ogryns to really make them more than something to look at?

That's... sad.

This book seems drab. Not like olive drab, but just... drab drab. It's not like the old days of "OMG, did you hear... the Wolves are getting friggen' dudes that RIDE WOLVES?!" Like silly grimdark gone too far.

This is just... boring? A Tank Army is pretty awesome, not going to lie. Just feels like it's missing some flavor. It's like salt and pepper. Yes, they can make any meal better, but sometimes you really want smoked sea salt and cracked white pepper.

This is what happens when GW reacts the complete wrong way to the Chapterhouse ruling.. Instead of going "who cares, if we dont act like dicks none of this MATTERS" they instead said "NO MORE FUN MODELS OR UNITS, No other company can make a single cent off our game". When in reality plenty of companies make secondary models for existing units with models anyway! To punish? Chapterhouse they destroyed all creativity in their own IP and made the players suffer.

Quote:
The Emperor's Benediction S5AP4 bolt pistol (pistol, precision shot, master crafted) only 5 pts, but Lord Commissar only. (since ithe weapon got Precisioon shot, I suppose that means every shot got that rule, so no need to roll a 6)

Wasn't there a debate like 15 pages ago about the "Take Aim!" order giving Precision shot? Seems like we have that settled now. Blob of 50 dudes with whatever else you want sniping everything out of an enemy unit.

Oh also for the PBS if I remember right you can only use witchfire powers from inside a chimera so if you're going to prescience your tanks you'll be on foot.

Portugus, I'm thinking you're right about the precision shot rule. That makes that order amazing, though I can imagine feeling pretty sullen if I was being shot at by suddenly crack conscripts that shoot better than my sniper squads.

Not all creativity. Tau got the Riptide. Love or Hate 'Em (I hate 'em), Chaos got Dinobots. Marines even got a new tank pattern and some PA dudes in PA. Eldar got Wraithknights and a hella cool jet.

Nids get a flying bug with a stick up it's butt. I guess they forgot those things can walk in the rules (or do they roll places? That's a hilarious thought). And they got more phallic bugs with big guns.

Guard gets Ogryns with more armor. Not a big stretch. And they drop several artillery tanks with already cool models from GW to make a boring looking double kit. Stormtroopers got a refresh and we got the "taurox". The latter being one of the derpiest and scathed updates I've seen from GW for awhile. Even the ork guys go "meh". And that's sad!

That said, I'll wait for confirmation before I go on ebay and buy up a ton of russes. 15 to be exact.

The chimera being able to fire at multiple targets will at least be good for forcing grounding checks... Its something lol.

 jae4x4 wrote:
how many orders can pask issue
how many orders can a regular tank hq order

One per turn, and only to his Unit.
roll 2d6, if 9 or less, choose one of the following that takes effect immediately
move D6+6
split fire lookalike
fire and pop smoke.

A tank commander can only roll 1d3 when choosing Warlord Trait.

Pask beings with old grudge warlord trait (pick a codex gains preferred enemy against it) re-roll penetrating hit and some special rules, depending on what tank you got (battle tank, vanquisher, demolisher, eradicator re-roll to hit; Exterminator or punisher, gain rending; plasma canon can fire a large blast heavy 1 gets hot, blind blast.

Biophysical wrote:
Do company command squads still have camo cloak and/or carapace armor options?
Who can get a medic and how much?
Are the Straken/Creed costs on top of the CCS squad or instead of?
Does anybody have access to combi-weapons?
Do Ogryn still have Furious Charge?
Do Heavy Weapon Squads pay the same price for their guns as Infantry Squads?
Are Special Weapon Squads still 6 men/3 special weapons?

Thanks.

1-Yes, both are 2 pts /model
2-15 pts, CCS, PCs and Scion command squad
3-instead; they replace the Company commander
4-Nope
5-Nope, they got Hammer of Wrath instead
6-Yup, same price for everyone when it comes to heavy weapons.
7-Yes, 3 MUST replace their lasguns with a special weapon

speaking of, someone asked way back about the price of a demo charge? it is now 20 pts.

How is everybody going to do infantry now with all these changes? Is there really benefit to platoons? Or is everybody going to be doing three weapon vet squads in tauroxes? Are those open topped? How many specials can you fire out of them? Honestly I can see me giving all my vets carapace and three weapons in tauroxes, with the CCS in the chimera ordering about my three strong tank squads, with vendettas dropping in with all the reserve buffs (tempestus with melta in the vendettas) how mechanized guard should really be done, a hard hitting force, where not only would the opponent have to deal with an incredibly destructive leman russ contingent, but they gotta worry about cheap, armoured vets prancing around too.

Oh also for the PBS if I remember right you can only use witchfire powers from inside a chimera so if you're going to prescience your tanks you'll be on foot.

No need to worry about that since the unit is pretty bad at 60 pts for LD8 psyker.

Hey Jex,

As you have the rulebook, is there any clarity on the contentious precision shot order and whether they have it only on 6s? Thanks for your time by the way

AkhilleusK42 wrote:
Hey Jex,

As you have the rulebook, is there any clarity on the contentious precision shot order and whether they have it only on 6s? Thanks for your time by the way

No problem.

And no, it does not clarify it; the unit gains the precision shot special rule, so for me that means 6s are precision shot just like the character rule states.

ALSO...the Emperor's Benediction, a Lord Commissar-only Relic (called heirloom of conquest) is a pistol that have the precision shot rule by itself. since the Commie Lord is a char and already got the rule for him, I believe that taking that item actually grants every shot as if you've rolled a 6.

but order wise: you still need to roll a 6 to get it.

Inquisitor Jex wrote:

AkhilleusK42 wrote:
Hey Jex,

As you have the rulebook, is there any clarity on the contentious precision shot order and whether they have it only on 6s? Thanks for your time by the way

No problem.

And no, it does not clarify it; the unit gains the precision shot special rule, so for me that means 6s are precision shot just like the character rule states.

ALSO...the Emperor's Benediction, a Lord Commissar-only Relic (called heirloom of conquest) is a pistol that have the precision shot rule by itself. since the Commie Lord is a char and already got the rule for him, I believe that taking that item actually grants every shot as if you've rolled a 6.

but order wise: you still need to roll a 6 to get it.

Sounds like a case of not proofread if we're catching that just by skimming it. Intent seems always placed, but it sounds like RAW isn't that?

Incorrect assumption on how the precision shot rule works tho, characters GAIN precision shot on a roll of a 6 to hit.

Character Unit type + 6 to hit = Gain Precision Shot rule

That is different from the RULE precision shot saying "A to-hit roll of 6 allows you to allocate the wound to a model of your choice". In reality, the precision shot rule simply allows you to allocate ANY wound using this rule to a model of your choice.

This is no different than the vindicare assassin or pathfinders. The only reason imo people are resisting this idea is because it's COMPLETELY ABSURD to have 50 guardsmen gaining precision shot on ALL hit rolls (but wouldn't surprise me with GW's lack of due diligence).

To all the haters, boo friggin' boo hoo.

We lost three artillery tanks and gained one. They all did the same thing any way, and we still have SEVEN leman russ variants. Master of ordnance is now cheaper. If you're really sad about the medusa/colossus get two CCS with two masters of ordnance and call fire on my target all day long. The arty tanks were mostly cheaper/flimsier ways of doing what the leman russ variants can do anyway.

ZOMG chimera is 10 points more. Yes, that's to counter your awesome vet units that are now 10 points cheaper. Cheaper doctrines, more orders, your infantry is now much more effective. PCS with 12" command range and 6 available orders. This change was to incentivize infantry with well thought out deployment and command structures, and to slightly disincentivize plasma buses. Which do you think more closely reflects the IG fluff? I agree the chimera rules are clunky, but the splitfire option could be very useful.

The cheaper veteran doctrines are positively game changing. I plan to spam camo-vets, Tanith style, good luck trying to shoot out my vets with the 3+ cover save in those ruins, and their snare mines will negate any charge bonus. Cheap carapace vets puts a whole new flavor on objective-seizing.

Cheaper armored sentinels could be big. They could be great tank hunters.

Everyone wants their army to be the next big thing, but I really like the sound of these changes and they seem like good balance decisions rather than flavor of the month OP buffs.

 TheSilo wrote:
To all the haters, boo friggin' boo hoo.

Ah good, the hallmark of a quality post.

Maybe, just maybe, there are people who aren't concerned with the power level of the codex, but with the poor decisions to invalidate people's units, characters, and playstyles that those units and characters created.

The internal balance is still looking to be pretty boor in the slots that have been consistently bad, namely the FA and Elite slots.

And for the last time, it isn't hating, or crying, or raging, or anything else you'd like to attribute to it.

People have differing opinions on things. Amazing how that works. Calling people haters contributes nothing and only makes me dismiss anything you'd have to say that much quicker.

 TheSilo wrote:
To all the haters, boo friggin' boo hoo.

We lost three artillery tanks and gained one.

We gained one yes, that fills a very similar role to one that already existed going back to 2nd edition, lost our anti-MEQ entrenching tool, and lost the most powerful ranged tank hunter in the game.

They all did the same thing any way

Methinks you should re-read your 5E IG codex and come back to this statement.

and we still have SEVEN leman russ variants.

Hooray that they didn't cut even *more* units /s

Master of ordnance is now cheaper. If you're really sad about the medusa/colossus get two CCS with two masters of ordnance and call fire on my target all day long.

Which don't really fill the same role and are grossly less effective.

ZOMG chimera is 10 points more. Yes, that's to counter your awesome vet units that are now 10 points cheaper.

out of the large number of units that can take a Chimera, it's now balanced just around one? command squads, mechanized platoons, stormtroopers, etc?

Cheaper doctrines, more orders, your infantry is now much more effective. PCS with 12" command range and 6 available orders. This change was to incentivize infantry with well thought out deployment and command structures, and to slightly disincentivize plasma buses.

Yes footslogging vets will be cooler, that's nice, but most other infantry still have largely the same problems they did before (particularly infantry based heavy weapons) and what was the reason for nerfing plasma buses more than the 6E core rules already did?

Which do you think more closely reflects the IG fluff?

Depends entirely on the regiment in question.

Ultimately, as noted, it looks like we'll get "the same, but different", another codex with some cool new additions but some major subtractions, with many longstanding units still suffering from the same glaring problems they've had for years (sometimes for multiple editions) and still have tons of awful internal balance.

 TheSilo wrote:
Stuff

Are we playing the same game? Camo cloaks? Have we seen all the ignores cover nonsense in the game?

There's absolutely zero reason to mess with the Chimera, it's worked well across what, 4 codecis now? Deleting units is also bad... none of what was deleted was overpowered, but meets the "Forge the Narrative" criteria we're impressed upon by GW. So all that narrative someone had with Al'Raheam (sp), Marbo, Custom/FW artillery tanks, etc. is now shelved.

There are good buffs, there are strange changes, there are bland additions, and then there are deletions. What's the final count, were more things added than deleted in terms of units?

It's probably a solid book, it's just not exciting. There isn't a Wraithknight or Riptide like model for this release. Not an MC, but a "WTF IS THAT?!" style thing that gets people buzzing. It's kinda ho-hum. The new Ogryns are cool.

Edit: I know one narrative player at a store I played at that will be very sad that Chenkov doesn't exist. He was custom building an entire guard army and only playing painted units... painting one guardsmen at a time. I feel sorry for him that his theme is now deleted.

 TheSilo wrote:
To all the haters, boo friggin' boo hoo.

We lost three artillery tanks and gained one. They all did the same thing any way, and we still have SEVEN leman russ variants. Master of ordnance is now cheaper. If you're really sad about the medusa/colossus get two CCS with two masters of ordnance and call fire on my target all day long. The arty tanks were mostly cheaper/flimsier ways of doing what the leman russ variants can do anyway.

ZOMG chimera is 10 points more. Yes, that's to counter your awesome vet units that are now 10 points cheaper. Cheaper doctrines, more orders, your infantry is now much more effective. PCS with 12" command range and 6 available orders. This change was to incentivize infantry with well thought out deployment and command structures, and to slightly disincentivize plasma buses. Which do you think more closely reflects the IG fluff? I agree the chimera rules are clunky, but the splitfire option could be very useful.

The cheaper veteran doctrines are positively game changing. I plan to spam camo-vets, Tanith style, good luck trying to shoot out my vets with the 3+ cover save in those ruins, and their snare mines will negate any charge bonus. Cheap carapace vets puts a whole new flavor on objective-seizing.

Cheaper armored sentinels could be big. They could be great tank hunters.

Everyone wants their army to be the next big thing, but I really like the sound of these changes and they seem like good balance decisions rather than flavor of the month OP buffs.

I agree I don't think guards gone the way of the bug... And I don't think we needed to be the Eldat/tau that trains got'a stop some how....

 Kirasu wrote:
Incorrect assumption on how the precision shot rule works tho, characters GAIN precision shot on a roll of a 6 to hit.

Character Unit type + 6 to hit = Gain Precision Shot rule

That is different from the RULE precision shot saying "A to-hit roll of 6 allows you to allocate the wound to a model of your choice". In reality, the precision shot rule simply allows you to allocate ANY wound using this rule to a model of your choice.

This is no different than the vindicare assassin or pathfinders. The only reason imo people are resisting this idea is because it's COMPLETELY ABSURD to have 50 guardsmen gaining precision shot on ALL hit rolls (but wouldn't surprise me with GW's lack of due diligence).

Another thing is the "Smite at will" order; the unit gains split fire special rule..

so that means that the Squad got to make a Ld test to understand the order, THEN must do another test to be able to split fire? I mean i passed a test to get the order; I get split fire, but split fire states I must do a Ld test to split my fire between two targets..

I think both Vets and Platoons got big boosts. Vets got cheaper base cost and cheaper protective upgrades. Infantry blobs got Priests. Both got better orders. Both got cheaper Leman Russ tanks in support (which frees up points to take more infantry stuff).

I don't get the Hellhound variant prices, though. For those points we're now looking at Leman Russ prices, with Leman Russ armor values. I'll still probably run the Hellhounds, because I like the conversions I've made, but I don't really get it. Fast tanks are not that good.

Any minor changes that might give the flame tanks a little edge?

Well, multi-melta is 10 pts now instead of..30 IIRC? Get a fast melta weapon in range to suck up the fire while your vet go up field,

It was 15 before. My devildog configuration went down in points.

A vanquisher and a devil dog do the same thing and cost the same .... One is 14 armour 72'' range. The other 12 armour 24 12 for the melta to kick in what the.....

It seems Carapace armour is suddenly cheap and worth it.

What a boring end for the PBS though...

I wonder about the Commissars, Priests, Techpriests, Primaris Psykers. Do any of these actually use up HQ slots? Or are they just HQ units? Is a servitor with HB really 20 points?

 TheSilo wrote:
To all the haters, boo friggin' boo hoo.

We lost three artillery tanks and gained one. They all did the same thing any way, and we still have SEVEN leman russ variants. Master of ordnance is now cheaper. If you're really sad about the medusa/colossus get two CCS with two masters of ordnance and call fire on my target all day long. The arty tanks were mostly cheaper/flimsier ways of doing what the leman russ variants can do anyway.

ZOMG chimera is 10 points more. Yes, that's to counter your awesome vet units that are now 10 points cheaper. Cheaper doctrines, more orders, your infantry is now much more effective. PCS with 12" command range and 6 available orders. This change was to incentivize infantry with well thought out deployment and command structures, and to slightly disincentivize plasma buses. Which do you think more closely reflects the IG fluff? I agree the chimera rules are clunky, but the splitfire option could be very useful.

The cheaper veteran doctrines are positively game changing. I plan to spam camo-vets, Tanith style, good luck trying to shoot out my vets with the 3+ cover save in those ruins, and their snare mines will negate any charge bonus. Cheap carapace vets puts a whole new flavor on objective-seizing.

Cheaper armored sentinels could be big. They could be great tank hunters.

Everyone wants their army to be the next big thing, but I really like the sound of these changes and they seem like good balance decisions rather than flavor of the month OP buffs.

This is how I feel. You gain some you lose some. For example, with my individual army I run mech platoons with armoured and storm trooper support. Chimeras are more expensive, that sucks, but most Russ variants including my two favourite (Vanquisher and Eradicator) have gone down in price a lot meaning I can field more tanks or at least help make up the cost increase caused by Chimeras getting more expensive. Vendettas cost more and can't carry as many guys, that sucks but a nerf here was assumed by most people. Storm Troopers went down in price and can be fielded as platoons, this is huge for me as I love fielding storm troopers as frontline troops, like grenadiers with hot-shot lasguns. Sure some options are less effective now, but that happens with every codex, our core troops are still good enough, vets get lots of cheap guns, platoons get lots of cheap bodies, sure you might need to rework your lists but that it to be expected with a new codex.

The one thing I will admit is bad is that we lost actual models. We shouldn't have lost actual models and if GW cares so much about having a model for every unit in the codex they should have made the hydra kit with an existing gun that fills a redundant role.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Zengu wrote:
A vanquisher and a devil dog do the same thing and cost the same .... One is 14 armour 72'' range. The other 12 armour 24 12 for the melta to kick in what the.....

Vanquisher fills a more important slot and the devil dog is a fast vehicle. I choose the vanquisher because I like it, but the Devil Dog still has its use, particularly in an army filled with tanks already, use the tanks to kill infantry, use devil dogs to kill tanks.

 Rostere wrote:
It seems Carapace armour is suddenly cheap and worth it.

What a boring end for the PBS though...

I wonder about the Commissars, Priests, Techpriests, Primaris Psykers. Do any of these actually use up HQ slots? Or are they just HQ units? Is a servitor with HB really 20 points?

Commissars are 1 per CCS or PCS: right after rolling warlord trait, you must place your commissar in a squad which they cannot leave, which includes; IS, PCS, CCS, SWS, HWS, conscript, Vets, Ogryn, bullgryn, Scion command Squad, Scions. One per unit.
so yes; 50 conscript with Ld 9 please..or HWS with Ld9 to take orders.

Priests, Primaris, Tech-Priests are 0-3 do not qualify as mandatory HQ and don't take up a FoC spot.

and yes; HB Servitors are 20pts: 10 for the body, 10 for the gun.

That missile thingy... 10" diameter, Str 10, AP 1, ignores cover? Once per game or not, that's ... surely that can't be right. And you can take three?

The mind reals at this.

Hey Jex, is there any cool new special war gear that can be taken? If so, how many points is it? What does it do? Who can take it? Early rumors mentioned the Tech priest could take something like a power field generator, is that true?

Wakshaani wrote:
That missile thingy... 10" diameter, Str 10, AP 1, ignores cover? Once per game or not, that's ... surely that can't be right. And you can take three?

The mind reals at this.

Its the same as it currently is.

Except the new version can launch on the first turn, and a little more reliably than before.

Wakshaani wrote:That missile thingy... 10" diameter, Str 10, AP 1, ignores cover? Once per game or not, that's ... surely that can't be right. And you can take three?

The mind reals at this.

Nope, still limited at 1 per squad, but you can fill your HS slots with 3 of them..and the stats are right; Str10, AP 1 ignore cover, Apocalyptic blast single use, you can't fire it turn 1 or any turn it moved, can start shooting it turn 2; needs a 4+ to fire it, a natural 6 is always makes it fire.

l0k1 wrote:Hey Jex, is there any cool new special war gear that can be taken? If so, how many points is it? What does it do? Who can take it? Early rumors mentioned the Tech priest could take something like a power field generator, is that true?

Well, there's the hot-shot volley gun.. only scions can take it..24inch Str4 AP3 Salvo 2/4.

Vehicle got the Augur array, so models deep striking at 6 inch don't scatter..the fire barrel's nice too, first enemy to charge the vehicle gets D6 Str4 AP5 randomly allocated hits.

Really the best things are the Warlord Trait and the orders, the wargear's pretty much the same all across the boar,d if only a bit cheaper for vehicles, and pretty much the same for infantry (with melee weapons being higher priced, and the basic Sgt can now take a boltgun, so they can actually do something in the 12-24 range,)

TP can only take melta-bombs and get a squad of up to 5 servitor with each TP you got

Inquisitor Jex wrote:
The Priest only got a basic CCW weapon and can only pick between a plasma gun for 15 or an autogun for free.

A plasma GUN, not a plasma pistol? Can you confirm this? Does this mean that you can add an extra plasma gun IC to any plasma squad?

Also for special gear, those are the Relic the Guard gets

Inquisitor Jex wrote:
Relics: some are nice others are..meh..Only the Company Commander and Lord commissar can take those

The Emperor's Benediction S5AP4 bolt pistol (pistol, precision shot, master crafted) only 5 pts, but Lord Commissar only. (since ithe weapon got Precisioon shot, I suppose that means every shot got that rule, so no need to roll a 6)

Tactical auto-reliquary of Tyberius, Company Commander only 25 pts(any order by the officer with that relic roll that gets a double gets Inspired tactics, i.e no need to roll for orders this turn, all orders auto-passes. roll 2 ones though, and it gets turned off for the rest fo the game)

Laurels of Command Company Commander only 25 pts (when any unit at 6 inches of the bearer is required to make a morale check, the bearer decide if they pass or no. If the bear dies, everyone at 6 inch form the codex must make a pinning test)

Kurov's Aquila Company Commander only 60 pts (bearer and any codex unit at 6 inch gains preferred enemy; bearer can re-roll a single failed Ld test per turn)

Blade of Conquest, replace CCW, 25pts : a +1 AP3 Master-crafted power sword

Deathmask of Ollanus 30 pts: Bearer gains 4++, it will not die and Fear.

Peregrine: Yes, I confirm, it is a plasmagun for 15 pts. and an autogun for free. Personally, the autogun is really a freebie so that it can do something at 12-24 if you're tight on points and can't spare 15 (or don't want to risk loosing your melee booster character)...and with his rosarius, it's like he's wearing carapace too!

 TheKbob wrote:
There's absolutely zero reason to mess with the Chimera, it's worked well across what, 4 codecis now?

To be fair, it actually hasn't. The Chimera with five fire points was new for the 5th edition IG codex, previously it had two fire points from the top hatch and lasguns on the side. The 5th edition rules simplified it to five fire points, and apparently someone realized that this wasn't a very good idea balance-wise and didn't represent the model very well. Now you can still shoot from it, but you have some incentive to occasionally disembark a squad instead of just keeping them in the melta bunker all game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Inquisitor Jex wrote:
Peregrine: Yes, I confirm, it is a plasmagun for 15 pts. and an autogun for free

Interesting. Special weapons on an HQ IC aren't exactly common. I suspect the other HQs will be better for shooting armies, but I kind of like the idea of adding a fourth plasma gun to my vets.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Inquisitor Jex wrote:
Nope, still limited at 1 per squad, but you can fill your HS slots with 3 of them..and the stats are right; Str10, AP 1 ignore cover, Apocalyptic blast single use, you can't fire it turn 1 or any turn it moved, can start shooting it turn 2; needs a 4+ to fire it, a natural 6 is always makes it fire.

So we've officially seen our first codex unit with an Apocalypse weapon. So much for that whole "Escalation isn't real 40k" thing.

The priest is still a guardsman stated char with 2 attacks, but an extra plasma shot or two is never refused!

As for the Deathstrike, The blast would be to stop the randomness of the old codex, and also to sell some apocalyptic blast kits..but who knows, it can well be the first of many apocalypse/escalation add-ons.

The changes to "Fire on my target" to give ignores cover is huge.

Ignore cover lascannons/autocannons taking down wave serpents.

Ignore cover plasma vets with 3x plasma guns etc stripping white scar bikers of their 4+ or 3+ cover save and their armor save.

Tau like power...

Tau are going to be hurt by our orders, same as eldar. However Deldar are going to have a field day fighting us

Jex, is Pask HQ only or can he occupy a tank in a HS slot

Oh and your MoO with orders and prescience just gave you your colossus back

Wait so regular infantry squads can or cannot take a special weapon?
If not I dont see the connection between the chimera 2 fire point thing...

Sorry if i missed it as it seems a lot of everything changed from like 80 pages ago.

so is marbo really gone? or was he hiding the whole time?

Pask is a Tank commander, so he is a HQ unit.

Regular Infantry Squads are exactly the same as before; one heavy weapon, one special weapon per squad.

The only thing they go changed is that Sargents can now take a boltgun for 1 pt

And with that, good night; need an info, PM me, or read a few pages back for the the juicy bits.

Inquisitor Jex wrote:
Pask is a Tank commander, so he is a HQ unit.

Regular Infantry Squads are exactly the same as before; one heavy weapon, one special weapon per squad.

The only thing they go changed is that Sargents can now take a boltgun for 1 pt

And with that, good night; need an info, PM me, or read a few pages back for the the juicy bits.

Cheers Jex, thanks a bunch for all the info.

 TheSilo wrote:
To all the haters, boo friggin' boo hoo.

We lost three artillery tanks and gained one. They all did the same thing any way

Dude, do you even play IG?

Yeah, S6, AP3, large blast, ordnance, ignores cover is totally the same as S10, AP1, Heavy, Blast is totally the same as S6, AP4, Ordnance Barrage large blast.

Thanks Jex!

Hmmmmm, Augur array + Servo Skulls = Something....

Here's hoping the DKoK lists keep their artillery, as much as it sucks for regular IG to lose them, I like the fact that the FW lists are now even more different than the regular IG stuff.

 Peregrine wrote:

So we've officially seen our first codex unit with an Apocalypse weapon. So much for that whole "Escalation isn't real 40k" thing.

The Deathstrike already had a blast diameter>5". It was D3+3" RADIUS blast, emphasis on radius.

Buttons wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

So we've officially seen our first codex unit with an Apocalypse weapon. So much for that whole "Escalation isn't real 40k" thing.

The Deathstrike already had a blast diameter>5". It was D3+3" RADIUS blast, emphasis on radius.

I think he's commenting on the fact it's "Apocalyptic Blast", which is from Escalation. IMO that's hardly enough to convince the teeming masses that a Revenant Titan is part of "normal" 40k.

So guys, on this whole "vets still get 3 special weapons" thing. I found this floating around-

http://www.mariscal40k.es/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Veteranos.jpg

My spanish is kinda rusty, but I am seeing on the sixth bullet point that only 2 veterans may exchange rifles for special weapons.

Oh and by the way...
http://www.mariscal40k.es/reglas-definitivas-del-codex-astra-militarum/

Yeah the augur array is going to be worth it if you plan on deep striking a few platoons of scions. For the fire barrels is anybody going to model Donkey Kong on their vehicle?

On a side note the orders for the militarum tempestus were listed and we already have the stats and points cost from the WD. Is there any reason to not use the rules? A scion command squad with 4 plasma guns ordering "Directed Firestorm Sanctioned" (Twin-linked) is pretty powerful.

 Peregrine wrote:

Inquisitor Jex wrote:
Peregrine: Yes, I confirm, it is a plasmagun for 15 pts. and an autogun for free

Interesting. Special weapons on an HQ IC aren't exactly common. I suspect the other HQs will be better for shooting armies, but I kind of like the idea of adding a fourth plasma gun to my vets.

I think you mean a 3rd plasma gun for your vets.

Hmmm so the Spaniard is saying 2 special weapons while Jex is saying 3.....

I'm going with Jex since we both speak and read English.

 ph34r wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

Inquisitor Jex wrote:
Peregrine: Yes, I confirm, it is a plasmagun for 15 pts. and an autogun for free

Interesting. Special weapons on an HQ IC aren't exactly common. I suspect the other HQs will be better for shooting armies, but I kind of like the idea of adding a fourth plasma gun to my vets.

I think you mean a 3rd plasma gun for your vets.

Dosent seem like it matters now with the limit on firepoints for the chimera.

 ultimentra wrote:
So guys, on this whole "vets still get 3 special weapons" thing. I found this floating around-

http://www.mariscal40k.es/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Veteranos.jpg

My spanish is kinda rusty, but I am seeing on the sixth bullet point that only 2 veterans may exchange rifles for special weapons.

Oh and by the way...
http://www.mariscal40k.es/reglas-definitivas-del-codex-astra-militarum/

Sucks, but seems to be right.


So basically Veterans aren't cheaper, they just don't have krak grenades per default anymore.

 Maxurugi wrote:

 ultimentra wrote:
So guys, on this whole "vets still get 3 special weapons" thing. I found this floating around-

http://www.mariscal40k.es/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Veteranos.jpg

My spanish is kinda rusty, but I am seeing on the sixth bullet point that only 2 veterans may exchange rifles for special weapons.

Oh and by the way...
http://www.mariscal40k.es/reglas-definitivas-del-codex-astra-militarum/

So basically Veterans aren't cheaper, they just don't have krak grenades per default anymore.

Doctrines went down in price. So they CAN be cheaper.

Oh but it does! I tend to lose a plasma gunner a from each squad each turn. Heck I lost 3 chosen to Get's Hot the last time I played My Chaos Space Marines zombie army.

 Sparkadia wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

Inquisitor Jex wrote:
Heavy flamer is 10pts; and (har har!) if vets don't take it, they can still sport 3 Special Weapons instead of 2.

THANK GOD. Nerfing them to two specials and making a lot of armies illegal would have been stupid even by GW's standards. I might not have to give up on the new codex after all!

This is what I was most concerned about, along with the Chimera changes. 3 Specials are Vets whole identity, taking that away is just the worst kind of douchebaggery.

 Peregrine wrote:

Yes, Executiooner gains Gets Hot for main weapon..

Sigh. What a stupid change. At least with the decrease in point cost you can buy a divination slave inquisitor to fix the problem and even give it an accuracy boost.

Agreed. It seems to have been done because reasons, which is monumentally frustrating. The whole idea of the Executioner pattern was to avoid leaking Plasma all over the tank. Was there a change in cost for Plasma Sponsors? Might help recoup the costs for the Prescience Slave.

it was done because the points went down by 35 if the cap is true...

thats awesome... its only getting hot once in a blue moon, for the pts saved its awesome.,..

this whole thread has been filled with moaning about this and that, heck even the chimeras, which got a buff, since now you get 10 laguns to shoot and two specials vs 3 from the FP's as well as normal shooting. sure they also went up in points, but 55 for av 12 was on the cheap side, not by much though, but pretty much everything else got a points reduction, vets included, to mitigate that anyways.

this codex is actually quite powerful with lots of buffs from what has been seen so far.

it seems to have options other then "spam chimeras with plas/melta vets in it behind an aegis with some dettas" which has been 99% of the guard Ive seen the past year,

so I will actually enjoy chimera spam getting a slight pts increase, while foot guard get a great buff, as do mech tank guard, and things like sentinels.

the orders alone make this a stupid powerfull codex... blobs with precision fire? yes please... tanks with precision fire... yes please...


oh you had a lynchpin guy giving you ++ rerolls? a HQ? some guy you didnt want to die?

sry bro, hes dead.

cue laughter.

Any word on combined squads? PCS finally able to blob up? HWS?

I'm not sure how firing 2 plasmaguns and 10 lasguns is an improvement over firing 3 plasma guns and two lasguns, on top of a points increas, could be considered "a buff".

What's the astropath's ld? 20 points for a lvl 1 telepathy psyker is a steal.

Primaris IC lvl2 divination is 15 points more than a pbs that's lvl1, 5 wound squad instead of IC, pays out the nose for more wounds, and doesn't have divination. Looks like the primaris is the doom of the pbs. It also means IG has more allies options in a single allies tournament now that we don't need allies for divination..

Is a lord commissar still a force org IC or an upgrade to a commissar ?

@CountCyrus - Jex said it was the same as the last codex. So yes they can combine but the PCS is forever alone but with a 12" order radius.

What officers can issue bring it down and fire on my target?

Are we still in 5th ed prices for power weapons?

As an ally to my sisters, Guard does get tasty with the Psykers. 50pt Divination Dispensers? Sure, why not.

portugus, the 3 weapons for vet squads Jex was saying was poorly worded, in that there was the option for a heavy flamer, which if not selected, allowed you to take a third special weapon. It might just be that the Spanish version was cropped poorly or some such. Alternatively my life is a lie and the relief I felt at hearing that vet squads could still carry 3 was premature and I will have to settle for just the points drop

 ultimentra wrote:
So guys, on this whole "vets still get 3 special weapons" thing. I found this floating around-

http://www.mariscal40k.es/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Veteranos.jpg

My spanish is kinda rusty, but I am seeing on the sixth bullet point that only 2 veterans may exchange rifles for special weapons.

Didn't the guy say that they could take two special weapons and a flamer or three special weapons? Sounds like the previous rumour might be right, simply worded weirdly.

 TheKbob wrote:
As an ally to my sisters, Guard does get tasty with the Psykers. 50pt Divination Dispensers? Sure, why not.

Why bother? its 50pts for Ld8 or take an inquisitor that is Ld10 for 55. Not to mention servo skulls make guard ordnance and blast weapons more accurate.

 Ravenous D wrote:

 TheKbob wrote:
As an ally to my sisters, Guard does get tasty with the Psykers. 50pt Divination Dispensers? Sure, why not.

Why bother? its 50pts for Ld8 or take an inquisitor that is Ld10 for 55. Not to mention servo skulls make guard ordnance and blast weapons more accurate.

Primarus are Ld9 and can be ML2 for 25 more points. 75pt psychic power crappers? Yes, please.

Nothing stops you from bringing them AND Inquisitors, technically. so you could have 5 guys slinging divination around for 260 points. Pretty much the entire army is twin-linked at that point.

AkhilleusK42 wrote:
portugus, the 3 weapons for vet squads Jex was saying was poorly worded, in that there was the option for a heavy flamer, which if not selected, allowed you to take a third special weapon. It might just be that the Spanish version was cropped poorly or some such. Alternatively my life is a lie and the relief I felt at hearing that vet squads could still carry 3 was premature and I will have to settle for just the points drop

Google translate of those dot points for vets:

- the veteran sergeant can choose items from lists combat arms and / or ranged weapons
- any veteran can replace your laser rifle from a shotgun (free)
- one veteran voice transmitter can be equipped with (5pts)
- another veteran can replace your rifle for a heavy flamer (10pts)
- two other veterans may form a Heavy Weapons Team Veteran must choose an item from the list of heavy weapons
- up to two veterans who have not chosen one of the above options can replace their laser rifles by an object from the list of special weapons


Then the other dot points are obviously for the Taurox, krak grenades and doctrines.

So, Hydras, they have Skyfire and....that's it? No ignore jink? No shooting ground targets? No interceptor?
It could be 40pts and still be pathetic.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
I'm not sure how firing 2 plasmaguns and 10 lasguns is an improvement over firing 3 plasma guns and two lasguns, on top of a points increas, could be considered "a buff".

5 max casualties vs 12, you trade one special for 8 las guns... sure against terminators its worse, but against stuff like tau or eldar, the volume of fire is more advantageous.


also, you are giving a las gun to bs 4 guys that had pistols, so there is that... with my vets going from 70 pts to 60 pts, and my chimera going from 55 to (60 65?).. it evens out, and comes ahead slightly...

Thanks AllSeeingSkink, that translation sheds a little more light and makes it seem like perhaps Jex misinterpreted the rules. *Sigh* Still, I can live with the reduction in points and cheap doctrines.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
I'm not sure how firing 2 plasmaguns and 10 lasguns is an improvement over firing 3 plasma guns and two lasguns, on top of a points increas, could be considered "a buff".

Well, you save 15 points by not buying the third plasma gun, so the overall cost of the unit dropped by nearly 10%. 6 BS 3 lasguns vs. 1 BS 4 Plasma Gun and 2 BS 4 Lasguns is a pretty bad drop in firepower, but the extra lasguns are slightly better against light infantry. I'll break out a spreadsheet and see how it balances out in a moment...

EDIT: the overall drop in killing power for a plasma veteran squad in a static Chimera with HB and ML, firing all weapons at MEQ (T4, Sv 3+) in 5+ cover at 13-24" is about 9%, according to my calculations. A tiny, tiny bit worse if you have to snap fire the heavy bolter due to moving, but still pretty close to 10%.

 TheKbob wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:

 TheKbob wrote:
As an ally to my sisters, Guard does get tasty with the Psykers. 50pt Divination Dispensers? Sure, why not.

Why bother? its 50pts for Ld8 or take an inquisitor that is Ld10 for 55. Not to mention servo skulls make guard ordnance and blast weapons more accurate.

Primarus are Ld9 and can be ML2 for 25 more points. 75pt psychic power crappers? Yes, please.

Nothing stops you from bringing them AND Inquisitors, technically. so you could have 5 guys slinging divination around for 260 points. Pretty much the entire army is twin-linked at that point.

Many TOs have a 1 ally restriction

Inquisitor + lvl2 primaris is 25 points cheaper than inq + coteaz

or go 2 inq + primaris if you want 2 grenade caddies and double hammer hand. Conscripts then effectively become s7 and priests can smash ID t7 or less.

 schadenfreude wrote:


Many TOs have a 1 ally restriction

Inquisitor + lvl2 primaris is 25 points cheaper than inq + coteaz

or go 2 inq + primaris if you want 2 grenade caddies and double hammer hand. Conscripts then effectively become s7 and priests can smash ID t7 or less.

I'm aware. If you're guard primary, take Inquisition probably. It's a cheap tack on for more power.

For Sisters, I get to choose between Inquisition or Guard. Guard gets me Vendettas and cheap Psykers, Inquisition gets me Coteaz, Grenade Caddy, Servo Skulls, a 3x cheap scoring units.

I'll play test both. Right now I run SoB + IG + Inq, but that won't fly anymore :(

 schadenfreude wrote:

 TheKbob wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:

 TheKbob wrote:
As an ally to my sisters, Guard does get tasty with the Psykers. 50pt Divination Dispensers? Sure, why not.

Why bother? its 50pts for Ld8 or take an inquisitor that is Ld10 for 55. Not to mention servo skulls make guard ordnance and blast weapons more accurate.

Primarus are Ld9 and can be ML2 for 25 more points. 75pt psychic power crappers? Yes, please.

Nothing stops you from bringing them AND Inquisitors, technically. so you could have 5 guys slinging divination around for 260 points. Pretty much the entire army is twin-linked at that point.

Many TOs have a 1 ally restriction

Inquisitor + lvl2 primaris is 25 points cheaper than inq + coteaz

or go 2 inq + primaris if you want 2 grenade caddies and double hammer hand. Conscripts then effectively become s7 and priests can smash ID t7 or less.

You can only take one inquisitor unless they are primary detachment. Anyone know the cost per weapon on heavy weapons. The base cost for a HWT is 45 points. Not sure if the HWT's are 3 models or 1-5 or w.e

 BlaxicanX wrote:
I'm not sure how firing 2 plasmaguns and 10 lasguns is an improvement over firing 3 plasma guns and two lasguns, on top of a points increas, could be considered "a buff".

QFT.

 Tomb King wrote:

You can only take one inquisitor unless they are primary detachment. Anyone know the cost per weapon on heavy weapons. The base cost for a HWT is 45 points. Not sure if the HWT's are 3 models or 1-5 or w.e

I have the book. You can bring two in allied slot. It's an "Inquisitorial Detachment" and has separate rules like a formation does.

I've seen some posts on Facebook costing the Hell hound at 125. I'm pretty disappointed.

 ultimentra wrote:
So guys, on this whole "vets still get 3 special weapons" thing. I found this floating around-

http://www.mariscal40k.es/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Veteranos.jpg

Well, the person posting here has the english version, which is the official one. This could be a translation mistake, which would hardly be the first time.

 easysauce wrote:
it was done because the points went down by 35 if the cap is true...

thats awesome... its only getting hot once in a blue moon, for the pts saved its awesome.,..

A 1/6 chance to lose the shot and potentially lose a HP is way more than "once in a blue moon", unless you're the kind of person who thinks that terminator armor means that your models can't die. So the 35 point reduction goes straight into buying a divination slave to twin-link the main gun so that it will be at least reasonably reliable.

heck even the chimeras, which got a buff, since now you get 10 laguns to shoot and two specials vs 3 from the FP's as well as normal shooting.

Lol, no. Lasguns are what you shoot when you have nothing better to do with your time. Shooting all three melta/plasma guns without disembarking is much better than throwing some random lasgun shots at a target. Which is exactly the point, GW wants you to disembark occasionally so they went back to the old Chimera rules.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 HisDivineShadow wrote:
I've seen some posts on Facebook costing the Hell hound at 125. I'm pretty disappointed.

Why? It's 130 in the current codex, and it's a solid unit that only really has problems with competition for FOC slots from the 130-point Vendetta. With Vendettas getting a major nerf the Hellhound doesn't really need any changes to be a viable choice.

 Sparkadia wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
I'm not sure how firing 2 plasmaguns and 10 lasguns is an improvement over firing 3 plasma guns and two lasguns, on top of a points increas, could be considered "a buff".

QFT.

It's a buff relative to costing +10, -1 fire point, and gaining nothing.

It hurts PCS and CCS far worse because they have 4 specials and can't man all of the lasguns.

There is so much good news that I'm really not all that heartbroken about the Chimera nerf. Run 3 as part of an inquisitorial detachment if you miss them that much. We're not going to get much sympathy because there are some very good buffs to other units.

 HisDivineShadow wrote:
I've seen some posts on Facebook costing the Hell hound at 125. I'm pretty disappointed.

I think the Hellhound was actually pretty good in the last codex. A fast tank with decent side armour which can engage both tanks and infantry is pretty sweet. It was just overshadowed by the fliers.

Now it's dropped by 5 points base, plus another 5 points off the multi-melta, plus five points off each upgrade, plus it can use camo netting on the move.

 Perfect Organism wrote:

 HisDivineShadow wrote:
I've seen some posts on Facebook costing the Hell hound at 125. I'm pretty disappointed.

I think the Hellhound was actually pretty good in the last codex. A fast tank with decent side armour which can engage both tanks and infantry is pretty sweet. It was just overshadowed by the fliers.

Now it's dropped by 5 points base, plus another 5 points off the multi-melta, plus five points off each upgrade, plus it can use camo netting on the move.

Plus it can outflank, plus the meta is infested with tau that depend on fire warriors to hold objectives.

How can a Hellhound outflank?

I don't usually find myself disagreeing too much with Peregrine, but I find the Hellhound and variants to be absurdly overcosted. They're no more resilient than many units that are as little as half their cost, and while their weaponry isn't bad, it's not tremendously impressive nor particularly long ranged either.

I certainly don't find them to be worth the same pricing as say, a BS4 AV13 battle tank sporting 48" anti-tank guns or AV13 skimmer with S10 AP1 72" BS4 cannon and 4 shot S5 ignores cover/LoS missiles".

The drop in point costs for an executioner and it's plasma spons is enough to buy a primaris with prescience. Overheats go to a 1/36 chance, and the 5 pies reroll to hits.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Doh, keep on thinking hellhounds have scout for no reason.

 Peregrine wrote:

 easysauce wrote:
it was done because the points went down by 35 if the cap is true...

thats awesome... its only getting hot once in a blue moon, for the pts saved its awesome.,..

A 1/6 chance to lose the shot and potentially lose a HP is way more than "once in a blue moon", unless you're the kind of person who thinks that terminator armor means that your models can't die. So the 35 point reduction goes straight into buying a divination slave to twin-link the main gun so that it will be at least reasonably reliable.

Agreed with Pere, I'd rather have paid the same as before for the same functionality. I dislike melting my own hull away, especially with only 3HP. Seems arbitrary, which is why it annoys me so much.

 Sparkadia wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 easysauce wrote:
it was done because the points went down by 35 if the cap is true...

thats awesome... its only getting hot once in a blue moon, for the pts saved its awesome.,..

A 1/6 chance to lose the shot and potentially lose a HP is way more than "once in a blue moon", unless you're the kind of person who thinks that terminator armor means that your models can't die. So the 35 point reduction goes straight into buying a divination slave to twin-link the main gun so that it will be at least reasonably reliable.

Agreed with Pere, I'd rather have paid the same as before for the same functionality. I dislike melting my own hull away, especially with only 3HP. Seems arbitrary, which is why it annoys me so much.

It takes get hot 72 rolls to strip 1 hp with prescience. With side spons that should take about 24 turns to strip 1hp.

Do we know if the Executioner "gets hot" affects all shots? If it does, then taking a plasma sponson Executioner has a 32% chance of inflicting 1 HP on itself, a 7% chance of inflicting 2 HP, and about a 1% chance of killing itself outright on the first turn All up about a 41% chance of inflicting damage on itself.

 Vaktathi wrote:
I don't usually find myself disagreeing too much with Peregrine, but I find the Hellhound and variants to be absurdly overcosted. They're no more resilient than many units that are as little as half their cost, and while their weaponry isn't bad, it's not tremendously impressive nor particularly long ranged either.

Agreed, I dislike the variants but I do so love the Hellhound. While it isn't great a lot of the time it can be absolutely terrifying, depending on your opponent. Highly situational - but also potentially epic.

Once in every 373,248 turns it will triple overheat and wreck.

 Vaktathi wrote:
it's not tremendously impressive nor particularly long ranged either.

I think you're seriously underestimating the Hellhound's weapon. A 12" move + torrent gives you pretty good threat range, and you have an auto-hit weapon that you can position perfectly to maximize the number of models under it. It's not going to remove whole squads of marines, but it's brutally effective against anything else. Meanwhile 12/12/10 AV is enough to make it take a legitimate effort to kill it, unlike every other non-LRBT tank in the codex.

 Peregrine wrote:
Lol, no. Lasguns are what you shoot when you have nothing better to do with your time. Shooting all three melta/plasma guns without disembarking is much better than throwing some random lasgun shots at a target. Which is exactly the point, GW wants you to disembark occasionally so they went back to the old Chimera rules.

And that is a bad thing? Transports and IFVs are meant to move around and support infantry, not turn an infantry squad into basically a firepower upgrade for the vehicle.

So at first I was sad for the poor chimera. I only have two so I couldn't really justify being up in arms about the changes, though I understand how it's possibly affected others who have heavily invested in them. But when I heard that now they could throw out fire at four different targets the the first thought that sprang to mind was: Chimera, for when the techpriest can't get the disco ball working for the regimental party.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
And that is a bad thing? Transports and IFVs are meant to move around and support infantry, not turn an infantry squad into basically a firepower upgrade for the vehicle.

I'm not saying that it's a bad thing, just that it's clearly a nerf. Sometimes nerfs are justified, like the Vendetta nerf. You can claim that the Chimera nerf was necessary or appropriate, but it's absolutely absurd to claim that it is somehow an improvement like the person I was quoting did.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
it's not tremendously impressive nor particularly long ranged either.

I think you're seriously underestimating the Hellhound's weapon. A 12" move + torrent gives you pretty good threat range, and you have an auto-hit weapon that you can position perfectly to maximize the number of models under it. It's not going to remove whole squads of marines, but it's brutally effective against anything else. Meanwhile 12/12/10 AV is enough to make it take a legitimate effort to kill it, unlike every other non-LRBT tank in the codex.

Mine single-handedly flamed over 20 Boyz, 8 Lootaz and a dozen Grots in my last game - paid his point back twice over. That guy was on (pun intended) fire - any green cockney who even looked at it got burning promethium all over his face. I heartily agree with the Hellhound being awesome, if situational.

Some FW units are about to become even more scary.

No more fishing for perfect timing now we always have ignore cover for prescienced earthshakers/thudd guns through orders.

3 TL LC sabers can now get tank hunter/monster hunter/ignore cover through orders.

 schadenfreude wrote:
Some FW units are about to become even more scary.

No more fishing for perfect timing now we always have ignore cover for prescienced earthshakers/thudd guns through orders.

3 TL LC sabers can now get tank hunter/monster hunter/ignore cover through orders.

Hopefully Sabres get a rebalance when IA1 Vol 3 comes out.

@schadenfreude - Power fist is 25pts and power weapons 15pts.

Also Inquisition doesn't take an allied slot, it has it's own neat little slot so you can take them as well as a different ally.

 schadenfreude wrote:
The drop in point costs for an executioner and it's plasma spons is enough to buy a primaris with prescience. Overheats go to a 1/36 chance, and the 5 pies reroll to hits.

It's conceptually somewhat disappointing that the way the best tank army in the game maximizes the power and survivability of its tanks is by including a wizard to sprinkle it with mystic fairy dust.

 thekingofdinner wrote:
yeah, the price increase for chimeras isn't a big deal since we'll be saving points overall with vet squads being cheaper.. But the loss of all that bonus gear and 3 of the firing points in the hatch is a pretty big downer.
Crossing my fingers and hoping that the hull lasguns are upgraded to the Lasblaster or something similar, but I believe the era of pillbox chimeras is over.

Nah! GW Wants to market its new product. Taurox armored car series.

 Agamemnon2 wrote:

 schadenfreude wrote:
The drop in point costs for an executioner and it's plasma spons is enough to buy a primaris with prescience. Overheats go to a 1/36 chance, and the 5 pies reroll to hits.

It's conceptually somewhat disappointing that the way the best tank army in the game maximizes the power and survivability of its tanks is by including a wizard to sprinkle it with mystic fairy dust.

Use an engineseer or mechanicus model for the primaris.

 schadenfreude wrote:

 Agamemnon2 wrote:

 schadenfreude wrote:
The drop in point costs for an executioner and it's plasma spons is enough to buy a primaris with prescience. Overheats go to a 1/36 chance, and the 5 pies reroll to hits.

It's conceptually somewhat disappointing that the way the best tank army in the game maximizes the power and survivability of its tanks is by including a wizard to sprinkle it with mystic fairy dust.

Use an engineseer or mechanicus model for the primaris.

Except Enginseers seem to be rather useful now. Giving PotMS to a vehicle in 12? I can see some uses for that.

 portugus wrote:
@schadenfreude - Power fist is 25pts and power weapons 15pts.

Also Inquisition doesn't take an allied slot, it has it's own neat little slot so you can take them as well as a different ally.

I still can't get my head around the fact that for 75pts you can have 6 CC attacks at S6 or 6 S7 attacks at range (3PF sgts vs 3 AC HWT)

M.

So about Rough Riders. it seems nothing changes.
or do they get the following upgrades too?
- Lasguns, to make them carabiniers/ 19th century Cavs.
- Carapace Armor, to make Cuirassiers

Wait... the Tempestus Whateverus book was a limited edition book?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Wait... the Tempestus Whateverus book was a limited edition book?

My FLGS says its on the trade order form, so no.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Wait... the Tempestus Whateverus book was a limited edition book?

Its shown as shipping within 24 hours on the new FineWeb Store (UK).

The new GW FineSite says "No Longer Available", and not "Temporarily Out of Stock".

What slots do p psykers, techpriests and priests take up? Do they use up HQ slots now? Have any become elites?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
The new GW FineSite says "No Longer Available", and not "Temporarily Out of Stock".

It could be that your webstore is out for the same day shipping that they promise. As such they won't sell you a product that they cannot send? The Fine site could be incorrect?

The UK store has it and lets the book be added to the shopping cart so maybe we have the tale end of the stock..

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
The new GW FineSite says "No Longer Available", and not "Temporarily Out of Stock".

Yeah, that's what it says on the Oz site, UK site it's still there, US site I can't find it at all? Who knows, somehow they managed to mess up something rather simple.

Also they've made it more annoying to swap from one country to the next, but I guess that's in their best interest so that customers can't as easily see how much they are being ripped off in their own country.

 Peregrine wrote:
I'm not saying that it's a bad thing, just that it's clearly a nerf. Sometimes nerfs are justified, like the Vendetta nerf. You can claim that the Chimera nerf was necessary or appropriate, but it's absolutely absurd to claim that it is somehow an improvement like the person I was quoting did.

It really depends on what kind of squad you are transporting in your Chimera.

A standard infantry squad is absolutely better now; you can fire your heavy weapon and special weapon, plus twice as many lasguns at separate targets. I know that you don't think lasguns are even worth mentioning, but I disagree; they kill many targets more efficiently than special weapons when you factor in their cost.

Veterans with plasma guns are only somewhat nerfed; the savings on the veterans themselves and not taking the third plasma gun almost cancel out the extra cost of the chimera and the reduced firepower when shooting MEQ (in light cover), Eldar Jetbikes, White Scars bikers and other popular troops. A big loss against Terminators, monstrous creatures, artillery and other tougher targets, unfortunately.

Veterans with melta guns are totally screwed. An effective loss of one third of their anti-tank firepower for less than 7% cost savings is pretty harsh. At least Vanquishers got cheaper to compensate for the loss of pretty much every other option for dealing with big nasty stuff.

 Perfect Organism wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
I'm not saying that it's a bad thing, just that it's clearly a nerf. Sometimes nerfs are justified, like the Vendetta nerf. You can claim that the Chimera nerf was necessary or appropriate, but it's absolutely absurd to claim that it is somehow an improvement like the person I was quoting did.

It really depends on what kind of squad you are transporting in your Chimera.

A standard infantry squad is absolutely better now; you can fire your heavy weapon and special weapon, plus twice as many lasguns at separate targets. I know that you don't think lasguns are even worth mentioning, but I disagree; they kill many targets more efficiently than special weapons when you factor in their cost.

Veterans with plasma guns are only somewhat nerfed; the savings on the veterans themselves and not taking the third plasma gun almost cancel out the extra cost of the chimera and the reduced firepower when shooting MEQ (in light cover), Eldar Jetbikes, White Scars bikers and other popular troops. A big loss against Terminators, monstrous creatures, artillery and other tougher targets, unfortunately.

Veterans with melta guns are totally screwed. An effective loss of one third of their anti-tank firepower for less than 7% cost savings is pretty harsh. At least Vanquishers got cheaper to compensate for the loss of pretty much every other option for dealing with big nasty stuff.

I'm sure its quoted a couple of pages back (by Inquisitor Jex) that vets can still take 3 special weapons.

alphaecho wrote:

 Perfect Organism wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
I'm not saying that it's a bad thing, just that it's clearly a nerf. Sometimes nerfs are justified, like the Vendetta nerf. You can claim that the Chimera nerf was necessary or appropriate, but it's absolutely absurd to claim that it is somehow an improvement like the person I was quoting did.

It really depends on what kind of squad you are transporting in your Chimera.

A standard infantry squad is absolutely better now; you can fire your heavy weapon and special weapon, plus twice as many lasguns at separate targets. I know that you don't think lasguns are even worth mentioning, but I disagree; they kill many targets more efficiently than special weapons when you factor in their cost.

Veterans with plasma guns are only somewhat nerfed; the savings on the veterans themselves and not taking the third plasma gun almost cancel out the extra cost of the chimera and the reduced firepower when shooting MEQ (in light cover), Eldar Jetbikes, White Scars bikers and other popular troops. A big loss against Terminators, monstrous creatures, artillery and other tougher targets, unfortunately.

Veterans with melta guns are totally screwed. An effective loss of one third of their anti-tank firepower for less than 7% cost savings is pretty harsh. At least Vanquishers got cheaper to compensate for the loss of pretty much every other option for dealing with big nasty stuff.

I'm sure its quoted a couple of pages back (by Inquisitor Jex) that vets can still take 3 special weapons.

I'm not holding my breath because the photo of the Spanish book says 2.

alphaecho wrote:
I'm sure its quoted a couple of pages back (by Inquisitor Jex) that vets can still take 3 special weapons.

Even if they can, only two of them can fire from a Chimera now.

Jex states he has the English language book and that as long as no Heavy Flamer is taken, vets can take 3 special weapons.

Is he on the level, is he taking the mickey...your guess is as good as mine.

Until we all actually have the book in hand and read it...who knows.? Guess I find out on Saturday.

But even if they can take 3 specials, it's largely pointless now that Chimeras only have 2 fire points.

It will only make a difference if they're on foot, and a vet unit on foot is a soon-to-be-dead vet unit.

 Cerebrium wrote:
But even if they can take 3 specials, it's largely pointless now that Chimeras only have 2 fire points.

It will only make a difference if they're on foot, and a vet unit on foot is a soon-to-be-dead vet unit.

Not if you actually disembark them into cover, like someone genuinely sensible.

Plus, defensive Vet Doctrines, namely Grenadiers and Forward Sentries, are absurdly cheap now. 10 points for 3+ cover saves when disembarking into ruins and a nerf to any unit charging them is very good.

 Cerebrium wrote:
It will only make a difference if they're on foot, and a vet unit on foot is a soon-to-be-dead vet unit.

Not if you field enough of them. Gunline vets may actually work now.

 Perfect Organism wrote:
A standard infantry squad is absolutely better now

But standard infantry squads never go in Chimeras. Transports are a fixed price no matter what you put in them, so it doesn't make much sense to spend 125 points for a single BS 3 melta gun when you can spend 145 points for two BS 4 melta guns.

A big loss against Terminators, monstrous creatures, artillery and other tougher targets, unfortunately.

Which is the problem. Those are the things you take plasma vets to deal with, so losing a model with a real weapon from the top hatch more than offsets any gain from the extra lasgun shots. This is why it's undeniably a nerf, not an improvement.

alphaecho wrote:
Jex states he has the English language book and that as long as no Heavy Flamer is taken, vets can take 3 special weapons.

Is he on the level, is he taking the mickey...your guess is as good as mine.

Until we all actually have the book in hand and read it...who knows.? Guess I find out on Saturday.

The way the Spanish book reads is one model can take a vox, one can take a heavy flamer, 2 can become a heavy weapon team, and 2 that have not taken any of the other options can take special weapons. Didn't see anything about 3 special weapons if you don't take the Hflamer.

For me, that has no effect, as I have modeled most my vet squads as 2 melta or plasma and 1 flamer for versatility, now I just turn that flamer into a heavy flamer. And 15 point carapace is far better than 30 point carapace. As is 10 point camo cloaks instead of 30 point cloaks.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Perfect Organism wrote:
A standard infantry squad is absolutely better now

But standard infantry squads never go in Chimeras. Transports are a fixed price no matter what you put in them, so it doesn't make much sense to spend 125 points for a single BS 3 melta gun when you can spend 145 points for two BS 4 melta guns.

A big loss against Terminators, monstrous creatures, artillery and other tougher targets, unfortunately.

Which is the problem. Those are the things you take plasma vets to deal with, so losing a model with a real weapon from the top hatch more than offsets any gain from the extra lasgun shots. This is why it's undeniably a nerf, not an improvement.

When you could take 3 special weapons in a vet squad in a Chimera and shoot all three out of their fire ports, there was no reason to take special weapon squads or get out of the Chimera. It's a nerf, but does reduce some point and click army building choices and tactics.

 Cerebrium wrote:
But even if they can take 3 specials, it's largely pointless now that Chimeras only have 2 fire points.

It will only make a difference if they're on foot, and a vet unit on foot is a soon-to-be-dead vet unit.

They have to disembark for orders.

6 ignore cover or monster hunter plasma shots.

3 tank hunting melta shots.

That's more dakka for less points, but more potential to get shot up with enemy fire next turn.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Does bring it down last until the end of the turn or the shooting phase? It's a big deal for models with krak grenades.

 schadenfreude wrote:

 Cerebrium wrote:
But even if they can take 3 specials, it's largely pointless now that Chimeras only have 2 fire points.

It will only make a difference if they're on foot, and a vet unit on foot is a soon-to-be-dead vet unit.

They have to disembark for orders.

6 ignore cover or monster hunter plasma shots.

3 tank hunting melta shots.

That's more dakka for less points, but more potential to get shot up with enemy fire next turn.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Does bring it down last until the end of the turn or the shooting phase? It's a big deal for models with krak grenades.

Or, which is pretty lol worthy, Forwards For the Emperor! to fire your entire Vet volley and then run them behind the tank or into cover. You could technically do this before by exploiting a Chimera's flat out move to conceal the squad, but you had to sacrifice all of the vehicle's shooting.