The Ogryn all look pretty good with the exception of the one that has the little well manicured beard and mustache. That one just does not do it for me.
Ravenous D wrote: Still no one has posted the missile turret tank in the Knights codex.
There's a missile turret tank in the Knights codex? Pics anywhere?
its in the background on one of the the spreads and is definitely not the manticore. It only has 2 missiles and looks like a turret like the hydra. I'll see if I cant get a reasonable pic.
EDIT: Its half blurry, but its pg 56 top left corner.
Ravenous D wrote: Still no one has posted the missile turret tank in the Knights codex.
There's a missile turret tank in the Knights codex? Pics anywhere?
its in the background on one of the the spreads and is definitely not the manticore. It only has 2 missiles and looks like a turret like the hydra. I'll see if I cant get a reasonable pic.
It is the Deathstrike launcher.
The "main" missile is one huge thing with multiple smaller rockets on the sides.
It's at a weird angle and out of focus, but it is the Manticore. If you look closely you can see the "support structure" for the missile rack, there's no turret.
Therion wrote: Holy crap. This is shaping up to be one of the worst codex relaunches ever. Absolutely atrocious. Now all that's missing is a huge swing from the nerfbat to every remotely competitive unit and the castration of the IG is complete.
Well we don't know if Cruddace got to ruin write this one like he did the new Tyranids book, so we can't say yet.
sennacherib wrote: The Ogryn all look pretty good with the exception of the one that has the little well manicured beard and mustache. That one just does not do it for me.
Therion wrote: Holy crap. This is shaping up to be one of the worst codex relaunches ever. Absolutely atrocious. Now all that's missing is a huge swing from the nerfbat to every remotely competitive unit and the castration of the IG is complete.
Well we don't know if Cruddace got to ruin write this one like he did the new Tyranids book, so we can't say yet.
Well Cruddace wrote the last guard dex and then has done nothing but junk since. Word on the street is he got in trouble for making guard too awesome (first time they win consistently in the history of the game) and got gun shy after.
The problem with the guard dex is that it only has 2 likely directions to go, sideways or way down.
Ravenous D wrote: Word on the street is he got in trouble for making guard too awesome (first time they win consistently in the history of the game) and got gun shy after.
How would that even happen? Does he write it in a bubble and then release it without telling anyone else at GW? You'd think someone other than Cruddace would have read it or playtested it before release.
Therion wrote: Holy crap. This is shaping up to be one of the worst codex relaunches ever. Absolutely atrocious. Now all that's missing is a huge swing from the nerfbat to every remotely competitive unit and the castration of the IG is complete.
Well we don't know if Cruddace got to ruin write this one like he did the new Tyranids book, so we can't say yet.
Well Cruddace wrote the last guard dex and then has done nothing but junk since. Word on the street is he got in trouble for making guard too awesome (first time they win consistently in the history of the game) and got gun shy after.
The problem with the guard dex is that it only has 2 likely directions to go, sideways or way down.
I'm sorry to be the noob in the room but is there a reason why the guard codex cant increase in power? Like become the power level of the Elder or tau?
Ravenous D wrote: Word on the street is he got in trouble for making guard too awesome (first time they win consistently in the history of the game) and got gun shy after.
How would that even happen? Does he write it in a bubble and then release it without telling anyone else at GW? You'd think someone other than Cruddace would have read it or playtested it before release.
He obviously doesn't play test, after guard he made the worst book in 5th, then made the sisters book (nerf city) then wrote the same nid codex with less options.
Other then marines, he hasn't made a good book since guard.
Therion wrote: Holy crap. This is shaping up to be one of the worst codex relaunches ever. Absolutely atrocious. Now all that's missing is a huge swing from the nerfbat to every remotely competitive unit and the castration of the IG is complete.
Well we don't know if Cruddace got to ruin write this one like he did the new Tyranids book, so we can't say yet.
Well Cruddace wrote the last guard dex and then has done nothing but junk since. Word on the street is he got in trouble for making guard too awesome (first time they win consistently in the history of the game) and got gun shy after.
The problem with the guard dex is that it only has 2 likely directions to go, sideways or way down.
I'm sorry to be the noob in the room but is there a reason why the guard codex cant increase in power? Like become the power level of the Elder or tau?
Mostly because the guard codex is pretty much where it should be, it can deal with nearly everything. The only thing that is hurting it is the age of the book and stale builds. If it gets better then awesome. I just don't see that as likely as GW seems to be behind on the information they get when it comes to nerfing things.
I don't see it as likely, either. The Guard book is, indeed, pretty damn awesome, and has a cover for anything.
If we were to get a *pure* buff to the book, the only thing that could really change is points reductions for tanks, so that their cost matches their reduced firepower and durability (thanks, ordnance and hull-point rules), and reduced costs for some of the more lackluster units, like ogryns specifically (if they were exactly the same as their 5th edition version, but 20 points cheaper, they would be usable). Maybe play around with Stormtroopers and Penal Legions a bit, but that's it really.
What's more likely though is that we'll get point increases for our flyers, tank costs will fluctuate with some getting cheaper and some more expensive, several character abilities will get nerfed to becoming once-per-game things, and veterans will become slightly less awesome.
Zengu wrote: I'm sorry to be the noob in the room but is there a reason why the guard codex cant increase in power? Like become the power level of the Elder or tau?
Because for most of their existence IG have sucked. The 5th edition codex was the rare exception to the rule, and one that the author apparently got in trouble for. Expect them to go back to sucking because they're an Imperial army that isn't space marines.
Zengu wrote: I'm sorry to be the noob in the room but is there a reason why the guard codex cant increase in power? Like become the power level of the Elder or tau?
Because for most of their existence IG have sucked. The 5th edition codex was the rare exception to the rule, and one that the author apparently got in trouble for. Expect them to go back to sucking because they're an Imperial army that isn't space marines.
That I did not think of but makes perfect sense and its such a shame that Sm's get so much love......
I for one think the new Ogryn look better than older versions but I will not be using them no matter what rules they get as they do not fit in my army. The Hydra I hope at a bare minimum can choose whether or not to skyfire. I loved using Hydras, I even made my own. Maybe if they shoot at a ground target they don't get Interceptor the next turn or something. Also hoping it's not open topped. My main concern is what they are going to do to...
(1) Leman Russ tanks
(2)Imperial Guard Platoons
Any one notice the end of the barrel of the gun in the hydra picture, not the earth shaker but the bear metal one. It doesn't look like a battle cannon... could it be this new gun hull mounted tank we've heard rumors of?
Commissar-Danno wrote: Any one notice the end of the barrel of the gun in the hydra picture, not the earth shaker but the bear metal one. It doesn't look like a battle cannon... could it be this new gun hull mounted tank we've heard rumors of?
The 2 gun barrels off to the right of the picture? They both look like Basilisks to me.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I must be one of the few who likes the new Ogryn. I think the current ones are terrible, and that these are a major improvement.
I agree with you.
I think part of what's holding them back in these images is the paint job. 'Eavy Metal never really did larger non-mech units particularly well. Once these come out, troll CMON for awhile and I think we'll see these are quite awesome after all.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I must be one of the few who likes the new Ogryn. I think the current ones are terrible, and that these are a major improvement.
You're not alone, I'm pretty fond of the new ones. Although the Ogryn with the facial hair looks a bit silly, and the special Ogryn model looks kinda bleh because of the armor he's wearing, just doesn't fit an Ogryn at all imo. The only thing I feel like I can really hate on is that I liked the look of the older Rippers much better. Their new guns make me think too much of Bolters.
The bullgryns also look damn great in my eyes. Although I was expecting something a little more crude for their riot shield, especially considering they have tank tracks on their armor. I cant help but question who or what put together their armor though. It looks as though it actually went down a production line at one point, but that makes me wonder why they would slap a tank tread on to it and not just more armor? Whatever though, I still look forward to getting some. I'll have a hard time choosing between original Ogryns or the new guys.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I must be one of the few who likes the new Ogryn. I think the current ones are terrible, and that these are a major improvement.
I agree with you.
I think part of what's holding them back in these images is the paint job. 'Eavy Metal never really did larger non-mech units particularly well. Once these come out, troll CMON for awhile and I think we'll see these are quite awesome after all.
Also this is very important to consider. A lot of old metal models on GW's site look like pure garbage to me because of the outdated and low quality paint jobs. I've googled up some pics of their old models before and found other peoples take on them and they actually look pretty damn sweet. If someone can give the Ogryn's a little more of a gritty paintjob then I'm sure they would look less like " kids toys. "
I for one would like to use Ogryns, very much in fact, assuming the rules for them are worthwhile. However, they just don't fit into my I.G. thematically. The same is true of Ratlings as well.
I can almost see the Bullgryns working in my Vostroyan list though. The shields kind of work for me, and the general feel is a bit better all told. I'd like to see the kits first hand before I pass judgement on them. We'll see what the codex has in store.
Not sure how I feel about the new Ogryns. I think some of them look better aesthetically than the previous models but I'm very curious as to how they will play however. Unless they are drastically buffed from their current rules, I think they will continue to be shelved. Everyone keeps bringing up the possibility of the riot shields providing cover to units behind them. I don't see that being very beneficial for a army where 95% of the time players will already be using a aegis defense line in any competitive scene.
Then again, if these were to provide all the bonuses associated with the aegis defense line at a almost the same cost I could definitely see these being used in a competitive sense.
Commissar Benny wrote: Not sure how I feel about the new Ogryns. I think some of them look better aesthetically than the previous models but I'm very curious as to how they will play however. Unless they are drastically buffed from their current rules, I think they will continue to be shelved. Everyone keeps bringing up the possibility of the riot shields providing cover to units behind them. I don't see that being very beneficial for a army where 95% of the time players will already be using a aegis defense line in any competitive scene.
Then again, if these were to provide all the bonuses associated with the aegis defense line at a almost the same cost I could definitely see these being used in a competitive sense.
The main benefit would be that assault armies would have to get through a line of Ogryns before attacking your squishy guardsmen.
Sir Bubbles wrote: It looks as though it actually went down a production line at one point, but that makes me wonder why they would slap a tank tread on to it and not just more armor?
Maybe in a previous engagement he took a battle cannon round to the love spuds and decided he was going to take steps to ensure it didn't happen again?
Daston wrote: I think I will continue to use thallax cohorts for my ogryns probably cheaper than the gw ones as well lol
This is a great idea. I kind of like the new Ogryns, but nowhere near as much as I like the Thallax.
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Forcemajeure wrote: Tank thread armour = Field repairs. Can't people see that the chestplate is damaged?
\
If you look at the color scheme, it sure doesn't look like a field expedient repair to me, it looks like it's incorporated into the way it is manufactured.
I've never liked Ogryns and while I still don't like these ones, they're still much better than anything from the past.
The Storm Troops and Scions look ace. Loving the beret, gas mask look.
The Hydra is a definite win.
The Taurox as it is looks terrible, however if you switch the tracks with some wheels from an Ork truck, carve off the Gothic insignias, add some antennas to the top, re-model or replace the minigun to make it look like a modern US or AUS style military truck and then fill in that god awful hood. Then paint it to match the Guard Tanks and I think it will come out alright.
Automatically Appended Next Post: If you look at the color scheme, it sure doesn't look like a field expedient repair to me, it looks like it's incorporated into the way it is manufactured.
EDIT: Messed up the quote function while trying to remove the picture from Ouze's post.
True... Some of the pictures didnt load on my phone earlier. I thought that the tank thread loincloth only was on one of the Bullgryns.
As a few have said the Ogryns are let don by a rather iffy and garish paintjob. Suitably dirtied up these will look (literally) smashing.
I ran Ogryns quite a few times under the old codex and never once found them to be anything but useful, expensive but useful.
I have a horrible feeling that GW will keep the points the same for basic Ogs and have a more expensive upgraded Bull option. I hope this isn't the case but we will see on that.
Its a bit redundant but I'll chime in and say the Blingmobile is very poorly executed. The basis looks okay, but the tracks and the OTT detailing really detract from a decent hull. Again I hope that there is an option to have wheels. The driver for the popularity for this model will be the rules I guess (or 3rd party input...?).
The Scions/Storm Troopers look nice. I note the WD page shows a Command box of 5 models, the current regiment ranges also have a troops box of 10. I would make sense if they followed this format to enable another regiment range while ticking the Storm Trooper box....?
Anyway general comment; 2 much needed plastic infantry boxes good - not needed trackmobile bad.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I must be one of the few who likes the new Ogryn. I think the current ones are terrible, and that these are a major improvement.
Me too. I have never bought a single ogryn over the years simply because I don't like the base concept, and I won't be using these ones either - my imperial guard are a detachment from my homebrew space marine chapters homeworld and ogryns would make no sense- but they are better than the last couple of attempts at ogryns.
As an aside, GW's painting is really nowhere near what it used to be, even with the knights I found them far too clinical and exact, ancient war machines in constant battle do not look factory fresh. Neither do Ogryns, I think once hobbyists get there hands on these things people will see them a bit differently.
The hydra looks nice, I have an open topped scout truck based on a chimera chassis in my collection, it was a forgeworld conversion, I forget its name, but I bought it from them when I got a baneblade and they havent made that for donkeys years, so it was a while ago, but I can see a plastic version of that that being part of a duel kit with the hydra, the back looks very similar.
While I understand that the new models are something solid that can be discussed with a lot of certainty to their release, I find this here interesting:
Look at the other things that are rumoured to come here.
Just to pick the highlights (from my point of view):
- Doctrines
- New tank based on the Malcador STC - Another Knight
- Another fighter-type aircraft
- Plastic Steel Legion and Mordians
I wonder how no-one even seems to care about this or did I jump the relevant pages somehow? If even half of this is true, there will be lots of love for the IG to come. I hope Orks get at least half the amount of new models as rumoured for IG.
Daston wrote: I think I will continue to use thallax cohorts for my ogryns probably cheaper than the gw ones as well lol
This is a great idea. I kind of like the new Ogryns, but nowhere near as much as I like the Thallax.
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Forcemajeure wrote: Tank thread armour = Field repairs. Can't people see that the chestplate is damaged?
\
If you look at the color scheme, it sure doesn't look like a field expedient repair to me, it looks like it's incorporated into the way it is manufactured.
Tank treads simply happened to have similar dimensions to the original armor plates, and fortunatley tank treads exists in abundance, purely logistics wise its better to transport more tank treads thta just about any vehcile and ogryns can use.
And in worst case Ogryns always carry spare tread bits around.
SRSFACE wrote: Crisis teams are $65, but these guys look like they have more options. I'm guessing it'll be about $68 bucks. I'm hopeful it won't be much more than that.
Hive Guard have about the same size and less options, a box of 3 costs 70$.
So I expect a box of 3 Ogryns for 70$ as well. Double the Scions for double the size.
Would also make them more expensive than 3 metal Ogryns.
I think it's a pretty safe bet they'll cost at least as much as the metal Ogryns.
Kosake wrote: While I understand that the new models are something solid that can be discussed with a lot of certainty to their release, I find this here interesting:
Look at the other things that are rumoured to come here.
Just to pick the highlights (from my point of view):
- Doctrines
- New tank based on the Malcador STC - Another Knight
- Another fighter-type aircraft
- Plastic Steel Legion and Mordians
I wonder how no-one even seems to care about this or did I jump the relevant pages somehow? If even half of this is true, there will be lots of love for the IG to come. I hope Orks get at least half the amount of new models as rumoured for IG.
I personally don't believe GW would release so many new models for IG.
Kosake wrote: While I understand that the new models are something solid that can be discussed with a lot of certainty to their release, I find this here interesting:
Look at the other things that are rumoured to come here.
Just to pick the highlights (from my point of view):
- Doctrines
- New tank based on the Malcador STC - Another Knight
- Another fighter-type aircraft
- Plastic Steel Legion and Mordians
I wonder how no-one even seems to care about this or did I jump the relevant pages somehow? If even half of this is true, there will be lots of love for the IG to come. I hope Orks get at least half the amount of new models as rumoured for IG.
These sort of releases aren't impossible. It has been commented in the past that GW were too tied to releasing models only with a new Codex, resulting in gaps of years before your army got something new.
The Helbrute has been released along with a supplemental Codex so you could assume that further IG releases could come at anytime if tied to a supplement
BlaxicanX wrote: So, what are the odds that the new Ogryns are going be a really expensive, slow "elite"-sized assault unit that no one's going to use because it's an expensive, slow "elite"-sized assault unit?
Yeah, if only they had a way to move faster...like an armored vehicle of some kind...
That wasn't composed of ass.....way over priced.....and probably not great rules wise.....
Way Overpriced? It's 29 pounds. That's about average. In fact, that's 2 pounds less than the ghost ark.
We still don't know what size it is. I'm willing to bet it's significantly smaller than a Chimera.
I'm pretty pumped about the new tank kit. You can call it ugly all you want but it looks like the up-armored darlings sitting on my FOB right now that roll through Hell and high water with no problem.
I'm pretty sure the wheeled conversion kit for the Chimera from CHS would work really well with this too, for those that aren't a fan of the treads. (I'm not)
These sort of releases aren't impossible. It has been commented in the past that GW were too tied to releasing models only with a new Codex, resulting in gaps of years before your army got something new.
The Helbrute has been released along with a supplemental Codex so you could assume that further IG releases could come at anytime if tied to a supplement
Yeah, right, that's the other thing bugging me. It states that the new dex will get the doctrines for Catachans and Cadians. So now, they will charge 35€ extra for each, vostoyans, valhallans, steel legion, mordians,...
If you believe that plastic steel legion and mordians are indeed next in line, I guess that's where the new units will slowly drip in. Quite devious, if you think about it. Lets say that the rules for the new flyer or tank comes with one of the supplements. Even if it states that the unit can be taken as heavy support or whatever for any guards, technically you still have to get the supplement (from GW point of view, at least).
The ogryns, are interesting. I'm reserving judgement until I see the sprues, theres no way I'd assemble them 'as is' for my Praetorians anyway, but i want to know how easy it'll be to convert them.
The two 'grunt' Ogryn's look especially HEYY YOU GUYYYYS!
Everything else looks decent, imfo. Except that transport.
I really like the palettes they've used though.
Re that transport, people further up-thread were discussing whether Ogryn's could use it. I think the door looks dual-usage, with a larger door containing a smaller inner door.
Apologies if this has been pointed out - it's 40-odd pages ffs!
These sort of releases aren't impossible. It has been commented in the past that GW were too tied to releasing models only with a new Codex, resulting in gaps of years before your army got something new.
The Helbrute has been released along with a supplemental Codex so you could assume that further IG releases could come at anytime if tied to a supplement
Yeah, right, that's the other thing bugging me. It states that the new dex will get the doctrines for Catachans and Cadians. So now, they will charge 35€ extra for each, vostoyans, valhallans, steel legion, mordians,...
If you believe that plastic steel legion and mordians are indeed next in line, I guess that's where the new units will slowly drip in. Quite devious, if you think about it. Lets say that the rules for the new flyer or tank comes with one of the supplements. Even if it states that the unit can be taken as heavy support or whatever for any guards, technically you still have to get the supplement (from GW point of view, at least).
Yeah, most of my IG are valhallans, so will i be able to play the vanilia IG codex? Or when my regiment drops am i forced to play it?
As ever, if the supplement has some rules you want to use, you'll need to buy it to use those rules in an official setting. If it doesn't, what's stopping you from using your valhallan models with the vanilla IG book? Nothing, from what I can tell.
Bull0 wrote: As ever, if the supplement has some rules you want to use, you'll need to buy it to use those rules in an official setting. If it doesn't, what's stopping you from using your valhallan models with the vanilla IG book? Nothing, from what I can tell.
Sure, IG regiments wont be unplayable in the sense of squats, but to buy a supplement for a single unit you should technically be able to field with just the codex would suck hard.
Yeah, if we're talking about say, removing Chenkov and Conscripts from the generic codex and putting them in a £30 book, that would be pretty lame, and I wouldn't buy it.
Say the IG codex comes in April-May (without the tank) and in June we get the Mordian-supplement with the tank inside and the notion that it can be used for any guards army, not only Mordians. Thus a unit, that technically belongs to the IG core list is not in the codex and has been moved to a marginally later release on purpose so the supplement is required not only for those who actually care about the regiment, but for any IG player wishing to field that unit.
Chenkov and Conscripts would be prime candidates for Valhallans, but I don't think they will move those, since they are too symbolic of the whole grimdark IG.
Col.Gravis wrote: The ogryns, are interesting. I'm reserving judgement until I see the sprues, theres no way I'd assemble them 'as is' for my Praetorians anyway, but i want to know how easy it'll be to convert them.
You produced pith helmet sci-fi Ogres for a commision in the past. Could be an interesting sideline to move into! You know you've got at least one customer should it come to pass.
I really like the CC Ogryns, my judgement is usually based on whether I can seen them moving and existing with their surroundings.
I can see these moving forward slowly deflecting shot after shot with the shield, like a moving defence line almost. Lets hope the rules follow my mind!
Kosake wrote: I'm speaking about the rumored new flyer or tank.
Say the IG codex comes in April-May (without the tank) and in June we get the Mordian-supplement with the tank inside and the notion that it can be used for any guards army, not only Mordians. Thus a unit, that technically belongs to the IG core list is not in the codex and has been moved to a marginally later release on purpose so the supplement is required not only for those who actually care about the regiment, but for any IG player wishing to field that unit.
Oh, right. That isn't what we were talking about, which is why it kind of threw me there.
I know we've just had a codex for the Knight, but even so this strikes me as a little hysterical. For starters, part of why the Knight got it's own book is that it can be part of any Imperium army, and it can be used standalone. That's not really the same as holding back one imperial guard tank kit / flyer kit, and doing a codex supplement for that. We've got a fairly solid track record now of GW putting rules for that kind of isolated release into White Dwarf, anyway.
Hello Natfka, I am not normally a rumour guy.
However, I have today seen (and held) something I was not supposed to.
"Astra Militarium Bullgryns"
Shrink wrapped box ready for sale; I don't know what that implys about
release time.
Three Plastic "Bullgryns" which seem to be armoured Ogryns with large
riot style shields. Looked to be on the same bases as the Space Marine
Centurians. They are painted in a new looking blue/gray urban cammo.
They have armoured looking torsos and loin cloth type things made out
of tank tracks (!). They also seemed to have cybernetic enchancement
(ala Boneheads).
Looking at the back of the box, there was a small picture indicating
they could also be built as traditional Ogryns, which retain there
T-shirts and Ripper guns look. The Orgryn on the back had a Green T
shirt.
The description is spot on, so I think it is safe to assume that there will be 3 in a box and not 5.
H.B.M.C. wrote: They'll come in units of 5-10. Available in a box of 3.
Thanks Obama.
Not necessarily. There could be a change in squad size requirements.
Necron destroyers were 3-5. Now they are 1-5.
it's my understanding, points have been lowered for guard models, like years ago. Requiring guard players to buy more minis. So what was a 2k army that you might have right now might calculate out be 1800 or so with the new codex.
prowla wrote: So, any rumors if the Hydra kit builds something else? Would be rare for GW to release a single-build plastic kit.
It's not "something new", but it looks to share a lot of components with the Basilisk--which incidentally has been a "direct order" item for some time.
prowla wrote: So, any rumors if the Hydra kit builds something else? Would be rare for GW to release a single-build plastic kit.
It's not "something new", but it looks to share a lot of components with the Basilisk--which incidentally has been a "direct order" item for some time.
That'd be my guess too. The medusa and bombard are still there on forgeworld.
prowla wrote: So, any rumors if the Hydra kit builds something else? Would be rare for GW to release a single-build plastic kit.
It's not "something new", but it looks to share a lot of components with the Basilisk--which incidentally has been a "direct order" item for some time.
The photo of the Hydra shows it next to the old Basilisk model (or at least a Basilisk which clearly has a different driver's hatch to the Hydra), which would seem odd if it was a dual kit with the Basilisk.
It does seem to have a lot of features which would suit it being a dual kit with some kind of artillery though.
Anyone care to guess what the Bullgryn's weapon is? Looks like it might be some kind of power-ram or a grenade launcher.
prowla wrote: So, any rumors if the Hydra kit builds something else? Would be rare for GW to release a single-build plastic kit.
It's not "something new", but it looks to share a lot of components with the Basilisk--which incidentally has been a "direct order" item for some time.
The photo of the Hydra shows it next to the old Basilisk model (or at least a Basilisk which clearly has a different driver's hatch to the Hydra), which would seem odd if it was a dual kit with the Basilisk.
Not necessarily. There's a reason that I pointed out that right now the Basilisk is "direct order" only. They have no box to redo for the current Basilisk because the item was pulled to Direct Order sometime back in 2013.
The Basilisk seems to be using a "standard" hatch while the Hydra is using the Manticore/Deathstrike's hatch.
Also: Guess what other item has "2013" on its sprues? If you guessed "Imperial Knight", you're right.
Anyone care to guess what the Bullgryn's weapon is? Looks like it might be some kind of power-ram or a grenade launcher.
Correct me if I'm wrong but on the new hydra model, if you remove the aa turret and stick an autocannon on the curved plating section. It looks quite similar to a Salamander scout tank.
pyrotank wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong but on the new hydra model, if you remove the aa turret and stick an autocannon on the curved plating section. It looks quite similar to a Salamander scout tank.
Huh, and the set will come with autocannons, because of the hydra...that's a thought.
Hmm on closer thought, perhaps not. Would be a valid conversion though.
It's not "something new", but it looks to share a lot of components with the Basilisk--which incidentally has been a "direct order" item for some time.
The photo of the Hydra shows it next to the old Basilisk model (or at least a Basilisk which clearly has a different driver's hatch to the Hydra), which would seem odd if it was a dual kit with the Basilisk.
It does seem to have a lot of features which would suit it being a dual kit with some kind of artillery though.
Anyone care to guess what the Bullgryn's weapon is? Looks like it might be some kind of power-ram or a grenade launcher.
Now that I look at it, the Hydra top armor is different from both Basilisk and Manticore. Hydra has a curved section next to the turret.
For some reason the Bullgryn weapon reminds me of the PIAT 'bazooka'. Probably a grenade launcher or a frag cannon in style of BA Dread. Or maybe a grenade thrower for those frags the Bullgryns are carrying
It would'nt make sense for there to be a new Basilisk.
Just an observation, but in the picture showing the Hydra we also see the OLD Basilisk, look at the side plating and hull mounted Heavy Bolter. Thats the current (old) kit, not a new one.
Pyrotank might be on to something though about the Salamander. I'd also suggest it would make a good bed for a Griffin, just stick in a Heavy Mortar are your golden.
Col.Gravis wrote: It would'nt make sense for there to be a new Basilisk.
Just an observation, but in the picture showing the Hydra we also see the OLD Basilisk, look at the side plating and hull mounted Heavy Bolter. Thats the current (old) kit, not a new one.
Pyrotank might be on to something though. I'd also suggest it would make a good bed for a Salamander, just stick in a Heavy Mortar are your golden.
They still show off the old Leman Russ kit next to the new one all the time. It's not unheard of for GW to have old and new models in the same picture.
Col.Gravis wrote: The ogryns, are interesting. I'm reserving judgement until I see the sprues, theres no way I'd assemble them 'as is' for my Praetorians anyway, but i want to know how easy it'll be to convert them.
You produced pith helmet sci-fi Ogres for a commision in the past. Could be an interesting sideline to move into! You know you've got at least one customer should it come to pass.
Oh you know I was thinking that already
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Happygrunt wrote: They still show off the old Leman Russ kit next to the new one all the time. It's not unheard of for GW to have old and new models in the same picture.
True, on occasion, but this is publicity for the new kit, if it built a shiny new model, why show the old one alongside?
Sorry, if this kit makes a Basilisk I'll eat my Pith Helmet.
UlrikDecado wrote: I dislike Ogryns in IG, simply the abhumants doesnt fit into my IG view...but despite this, I really like the new models. They are right...ogrynish
Abhumans? Round up the mutant freaks and toss them into the warzone. If they kill the enemy, great! If they die? Great! It's a win-win!
There's always a place for disposable units.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, now that it's mentioned, those Hydra Autocannons could be dynamite as Dreadnought arms for the Marines.
Col.Gravis wrote: It would'nt make sense for there to be a new Basilisk.
Just an observation, but in the picture showing the Hydra we also see the OLD Basilisk, look at the side plating and hull mounted Heavy Bolter. Thats the current (old) kit, not a new one.
Pyrotank might be on to something though. I'd also suggest it would make a good bed for a Salamander, just stick in a Heavy Mortar are your golden.
Salamander uses Autocannons, not heavy mortars. That's Griffon.
Plus if you really want to nitpick, that's not the current Basilisk kit. The "current" Basilisk kit uses the current Chimera chassis. That is a much smoother side hull with very little in the way of protrusion, while the photo shows that there is a pretty significant protrusion which matches up to the old Chimera chassis. The only place to get the old Chimera chassis(with the rollers for the tank tracks etc) is from Forge World with some of their conversion kits.
And nobody is saying that this is a "new" Basilisk kit.
The current Basilisk kit is a direct only item. Some shops still have the box from the Guard relaunch, but if they sold out of those they weren't getting restocks unless someone got them to do a web order for it.
It's not unbelievable at all that the Basilisk is going to be released as a dual box with the Hydra given that the Basilisk, traditionally a big Guard item, has been a direct only item for almost a year.
Spot the not so deliberate mistake, thats embaressing, yes I'd meant to write Griffin
Pyrotank might be on to something though (i.e. I agree with it could be used for a Salamander). I'd also suggest it would make a good bed for a Grffin, just stick in a Heavy Mortar are your golden.
All I know is I have 5 salamanders (used as chimeras), 2 hunter tanks, 2 FW Lemans, and 1 FW basilisk because IMHO they look cooler...(and fit my ww2 dkok theme better)...
Col.Gravis wrote: Spot the not so deliberate mistake, thats embaressing, yes I'd meant to write Griffin
Pyrotank might be on to something though (i.e. I agree with it could be used for a Salamander). I'd also suggest it would make a good bed for a Grffin, just stick in a Heavy Mortar are your golden.
Opps....
I agree that we could see a Salamander, but honestly I don't think we're going to see the Salamander or Griffin.
Well we'll just have to wait and see, it's all pie in the sky guess work really for now. It would be very surprising if it only built one vehicle, but I guess they could alwats take the route of the Space Marine AA tank with two variants.
If I were gambling I'd actually put more money on a Griffin to be honest though, given its an existing tank in the Codex without a kit.
Well I for one want to know if the point reductions is true or not. I would hate to spend another $50 or more on a unit or model I really don't need or want to bring my army back up to 2k.
With the current top dogs (or most used anyway) codexes being so good at removing infantry I've got my fingers crossed on a reduction to 40pt infantry squads instead of 50. But That's probably not going to happen. As long as they keep the blob mechanic I'm not to terribly worried about what they do to my precious guard.
Except that there's at least 6 of them in the kit. So you don't need additional masks for those five models.
Pretty sure we confirmed 3 models, didn't we?
Aren't the five on the box all gas-masked? And my guess would be that a Company Commander would have a different mask than the others, something more fancy.
I really like the basic ripper gun Ogryn although I do prefer the old style rounded ripper guns.
As for the bullogryn they look ok. I am wondering if I could cut the Tank track loin cloth off keeping a more of a torso flack jacket look. I am interested in seeing the spures of the ogryns as it looks at first glance that they don't look very posable like many multi part plastic kits.
The Hydra looks good as well.
The big question is will any of these models be worth taking ruleswise? I love Ogryns but I haven't fielded any since 2ed with my Blood Axe Space Ork warband.
And nothing to stop you converting some bits with conventional WFB beastmen of course, mixed with any of the massive number of alternative minis out there now.
Mind, they get mentioned every now and then, like in the Imperial Knight codex, where they are hunted every year by House Cadmus to determine who their leader should be for that year. They even use an impaled Beastman head as their house symbol.
When I saw "Diabeetus" I laughed out loud and didn't think it could be topped until I saw "Heyyyyyyyyyy YOUUuuuuuuuuuuuu GUYSSSSSS!" and spat coffee out over my laptop. OMG I am crying right now...
I have no idea who GW hired to sculpt the IG kits but the Taurox and Ogryns are beyond disappointing. They're amateurish and aren't fit for a kid's toy (says the 40 year-old man who collects minis). I think the design staff need to walk over to FW and see what real models can look like.
I can't remember when they were re-written out of the IG background though
They are still in the rule book listed as "accepted abhumans". The only bit of fluff I read in the rule book. That section on abhumans is pretty cool. unlimited modeling opportunities from that.
SO when are we going to get ANY rules leaks? It feels like IG have had the most secrecy of all the most recent codexes! Something, even a rumor that wasn't from December to get the ball rolling would be nice, anything really. I MUST KNOW!
Yay! Painting up these guys as a Goliath gang in Necromunda just now.
So, chiming in on recent discussions:
I'm bidding for the Hydra to double with a Griffon. You know why? because they're both heavy support. You never get a rhino/whirlwind dual kit, and I therefore think the hydra won't double as a salamander - similar as they might seem.
Also, that crewman looking at a map out of the back of the hydra? dead giveaway for a griffon. If you're using a map to shoot down aircraft, you're doing it wrong.
Moustachio Tankloin - yeah they blew the painting there. Nice and shiny battle-damaged gear... I think step 1 of making Bullgryns respectable is adding MORE tank tracks. All over. Bring back 90's post-apocalyptic punk aesthetics! Spikes and hazard stripes everywhere YEAH!
Having looked at the 'regular' ogryns, I'm in the 'it's about time, they're pretty darn good, why'd they clean up the ripper guns?' camp. Sadly I spammed madly on ebay for Ogryns so I now have 7 of the 2nd ed metal ones, and no pin vice to hold 'em together with... *sniff*. But if they become more reasonably point-valued, I'll maybe buy another squad. 7 Ogryns + Yarrick puts anyone on the defensive!
I'm also kinda keen to see ogryns with a better armour save. Don't ask me why, I want them to have access to a 4+. it won't do jack in game terms, just feels right; reminds me of the Olog-Hai from Return of the King. Big tough badass in unnecessary heavy armour = win.
Also one of the earliest rumours was that the Griffon would be getting a kit this time round. Basilisk kit has been all-plastic forever, I think the 2nd ed Griffon kit had a metal mortar (correct me if I'm wrong someone) which has never been updated.
Lastly, and I don't know if this counts for anything, but Griffon and Hydra are the two lowest-point-value heavy support entries. So would they rather you bought two Basilisks, or three Griffons?
All still conjecture, but that's why my bet's on a Hydra/Griffon dual kit.
Also one of the earliest rumours was that the Griffon would be getting a kit this time round. Basilisk kit has been all-plastic forever, I think the 2nd ed Griffon kit had a metal mortar (correct me if I'm wrong someone) which has never been updated.
Lastly, and I don't know if this counts for anything, but Griffon and Hydra are the two lowest-point-value heavy support entries. So would they rather you bought two Basilisks, or three Griffons?
All still conjecture, but that's why my bet's on a Hydra/Griffon dual kit.
Griffons are cheap both are the same point cost two cost the same as a stock Russ. While the basilisk is 125.
I can't remember when they were re-written out of the IG background though
2nd ed, they were in the 'black codex' that came with the 2nd ed boxed set (IIRC anyway) but weren't included in the 2nd ed IG codex. Fluffwise they served in the Imperial army before and during the Heresy but they were a bit too unstable and a bit too ready to turn to chaos so they lost their abhuman status when the Imperial army was splt to form the IG and IN. These days beastmen are classed as mutants and are treated as such i.e. badly. GW has shown itself extremely willing to retcon though so this could easily change (again).
That feeling when "Yaaaay! Plastic Stormtroopers! SEK 250 ~£25.. squad of 10 ~£50. Outch! Oh well.. waaait a minute! *Forge World Search* -DKK Grenadiers (10) @ £38."
Well given the fact that it at the very least you get a ton of Command Squad Bitz in there as well and special weapons I don't care, they look gorgeous and will probably have great conversion opportunities.
Also, you only effectively get 8 models in that DKOK Grenadier kit, because the flamer and grenade launcher are garbage, and you still need to invest in the decent special weapons models.
Don't get me wrong, DKOK are cool, but Berets are cooler.
That feeling when "Yaaaay! Plastic Stormtroopers! SEK 250 ~£25.. squad of 10 ~£50. Outch! Oh well.. waaait a minute! *Forge World Search* -DKK Grenadiers (10) @ £38."
Well given the fact that it at the very least you get a ton of Command Squad Bitz in there as well and special weapons I don't care, they look gorgeous and will probably have great conversion opportunities.
Also, you only effectively get 8 models in that DKOK Grenadier kit, because the flamer and grenade launcher are garbage, and you still need to invest in the decent special weapons models.
Don't get me wrong, DKOK are cool, but Berets are cooler.
I have a trove of extra guard bits like legs and torsos, so with that one box i can probably make 10-15 guys and each will have a nice hard core look to go with it
So, chiming in on recent discussions:
I'm bidding for the Hydra to double with a Griffon. You know why? because they're both heavy support. You never get a rhino/whirlwind dual kit, and I therefore think the hydra won't double as a salamander - similar as they might seem.
Also, that crewman looking at a map out of the back of the hydra? dead giveaway for a griffon. If you're using a map to shoot down aircraft, you're doing it wrong.
I'm really not sure why he brought up the "Rhino/Whirlwind" dual kit thing.
Hydras and Basilisks are both Heavy Support. Even when the rules for the Hydra were FW only, the Hydra has been a HS. Everything that he posted for his "bidding for the Hydra to double with a Griffon" is just as reasonable for a Basilisk--more reasonable, since there is already a Basilisk kit and it's "Direct Only".
Tempestus is listed as online only, so supplement rather than out and out book by the looks.
I'm thinking ditch the track sections and put wheels under the fenders, two front two back, making an eight wheeler?
I was thinking more along the lines of an m80 under the front and an m80 under the back. Lite it and you have your new airborn Ogryn delivery system. Won't hurt the looks either.
agamemnon2014 wrote: I have no idea who GW hired to sculpt the IG kits but the Taurox and Ogryns are beyond disappointing. They're amateurish and aren't fit for a kid's toy (says the 40 year-old man who collects minis). I think the design staff need to walk over to FW and see what real models can look like.
GW hires for the right attitude, not for skills.
And if you look at FW, you see some of the best dragon sculptors ... working on Space Marine shoulder pads.
I think the truck would look better if it was just one long continuous section of tracks. It'd kinda look like a smaller version of the Leviathan.
tjnorwoo wrote: I don't understand IG beastmen... Is there fluff to support it?
Back in the Rogue Trader era of the game, there was much more variety of abhumans, instead of just the Ogryns and Ratlings we have today. Their was a table for generating your own mutants and abhumans and then there were Ogryn, Ratlings, Beastmen, and Squats.
Kanluwen wrote: Everything that he posted for his "bidding for the Hydra to double with a Griffon" is just as reasonable for a Basilisk--more reasonable, since there is already a Basilisk kit and it's "Direct Only".
And that's the problem with a Basilisk dual kit: there's already a Basilisk kit. Why make a dual kit with the Basilisk when you can quickly throw together some Griffon parts and have people buy the Hydra/Griffon AND the Basilisk? The only argument in support of a Basilisk dual kit is wishful thinking about having to buy fewer kits to get all of the artillery you need.
Kanluwen wrote: Everything that he posted for his "bidding for the Hydra to double with a Griffon" is just as reasonable for a Basilisk--more reasonable, since there is already a Basilisk kit and it's "Direct Only".
And that's the problem with a Basilisk dual kit: there's already a Basilisk kit. Why make a dual kit with the Basilisk when you can quickly throw together some Griffon parts and have people buy the Hydra/Griffon AND the Basilisk? The only argument in support of a Basilisk dual kit is wishful thinking about having to buy fewer kits to get all of the artillery you need.
Well that and, again, the fact that the Basilisk is a direct order item.
STC_LogisEngine wrote: That feeling when "Yaaaay! Plastic Stormtroopers! SEK 250 ~£25.. squad of 10 ~£50. Outch! Oh well.. waaait a minute! *Forge World Search* -DKK Grenadiers (10) @ £38."
Well, it's not quite a fair comparison. The new plastic kit is probably going to come with tons of alternate parts, while the FWDKoK kits don't come with any spare parts beyond what you need to make the exact models shown in the website pictures. If you want to do any interesting conversions with the DKoK models, including giving them useful special weapons (IOW, melta/plasma) you have to buy a bunch of other stuff to get the required parts. And they're not really designed to make conversions easy, they don't fit with any non-DKoK parts and even doing more than swapping arms with other DKoK models is difficult to impossible. I think both of them will probably be appealing purchases: plastic storm troopers for people who want to create their own unique elite infantry (including converting them with other IG plastic kits), DKoK for people who want the standard DKoK look.
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Kanluwen wrote: Well that and, again, the fact that the Basilisk is a direct order item.
What does being direct-only have to do with anything?
GW remade the Leman Russ when it was already all plastic with the different variants in it, so I don't think that's a reason for them to not do it. Not convinced they will remake it, just saying the "it's already plastic" argument isn't that much of an argument.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: GW remade the Leman Russ when it was already all plastic with the different variants in it, so I don't think that's a reason for them to not do it. Not convinced they will remake it, just saying the "it's already plastic" argument isn't that much of an argument.
I believe it actually became two kits, so it was actually more of a win for them since they doubled their money on that one
Why plastic Ogryns? WHY!? It is such a strange decision, locals here never use Ogryns [besides me] and with the release of the Apocalypse updated "Dawn of War" style metals, I thought it was all done for them.
They look very amateur, and unable to move around.. like the Skesis from Dark Crystal... or those boring Aliens from the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy.
Still laughing over the price compared to Forgeworld.. LOL more than a DKOK army...
AllSeeingSkink wrote: GW remade the Leman Russ when it was already all plastic with the different variants in it, so I don't think that's a reason for them to not do it. Not convinced they will remake it, just saying the "it's already plastic" argument isn't that much of an argument.
I believe it actually became two kits, so it was actually more of a win for them since they doubled their money on that one
The Demolisher was always a separate kit. Previously the all-plastic kit was simply a Battle Tank (the one with a battle cannon), they then updated it with 4 different variants in one box and also released the Demolisher which is 3 more variants.
Peregrine wrote: And that's the problem with a Basilisk dual kit: there's already a Basilisk kit. Why make a dual kit with the Basilisk when you can quickly throw together some Griffon parts and have people buy the Hydra/Griffon AND the Basilisk? The only argument in support of a Basilisk dual kit is wishful thinking about having to buy fewer kits to get all of the artillery you need.
Well that and, again, the fact that the Basilisk is a direct order item.
That and the Basilisk kit isn't a complete kit. Thanks to the recut of the Chimera sprue when the last Codex came out the Basilisk is incomplete, as it's missing default parts (like the hull HB). Making a new one that includes that right parts, and wrapping it up into the Hydra kit, fixes that issue.
RedSarge wrote: Why plastic Ogryns? WHY!? It is such a strange decision, locals here never use Ogryns [besides me] and with the release of the Apocalypse updated "Dawn of War" style metals, I thought it was all done for them.
Given GW's recent push to replace 'Fine'cast with plastic, it really isn't that surprising...
RedSarge wrote: Why plastic Ogryns? WHY!? It is such a strange decision, locals here never use Ogryns [besides me] and with the release of the Apocalypse updated "Dawn of War" style metals, I thought it was all done for them.
Given GW's recent push to replace 'Fine'cast with plastic, it really isn't that surprising...
So I take it that the once metal Ogryns are finecast now? Might have to pick some up soon, far easier to convert.
As for optional models, how about some Deadzone Marauders [Blood Axes?] or Brother Vinni's not XCOM Mutons?
aka_mythos wrote: I think the truck would look better if it was just one long continuous section of tracks. It'd kinda look like a smaller version of the Leviathan.
tjnorwoo wrote: I don't understand IG beastmen... Is there fluff to support it?
Back in the Rogue Trader era of the game, there was much more variety of abhumans, instead of just the Ogryns and Ratlings we have today. Their was a table for generating your own mutants and abhumans and then there were Ogryn, Ratlings, Beastmen, and Squats.
Thanks!
I really don't understand what people think is so wrong about squats. Some people say they are happy the 40k universe got more serious and corrected the goofy fluff of earlier times, but I for one want to see a goofy future. I say bring back the squats, bring back the genestealer cults, bring back the beastmen IG! Thats one thing I love about fantasy, that they don't try to make everything so serious. Thats why I have several thousand points of Skaven.
RedSarge wrote: Why plastic Ogryns? WHY!? It is such a strange decision, locals here never use Ogryns [besides me] and with the release of the Apocalypse updated "Dawn of War" style metals, I thought it was all done for them.
Given GW's recent push to replace 'Fine'cast with plastic, it really isn't that surprising...
So I take it that the once metal Ogryns are finecast now? Might have to pick some up soon, far easier to convert.
As for optional models, how about some Deadzone Marauders [Blood Axes?] or Brother Vinni's not XCOM Mutons?
I'm pretty sure they are still metal. I sold off 5 metal ogryns a while back and now I wish I hadn't given they may actually get some decent rules... As you can see I also may be hopelessly optimistic.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: GW remade the Leman Russ when it was already all plastic with the different variants in it, so I don't think that's a reason for them to not do it. Not convinced they will remake it, just saying the "it's already plastic" argument isn't that much of an argument.
But that made sense because the old LRBT kit was an awful design. The tracks were a complete mess with lots of extra wheels (which were not even visible once the model was finished) and no alignment for the tracks. The redesign removes the redundant parts from the sprue, makes it much easier to build, and includes the new 5th edition variant turrets. The Basilisk, on the other hand, already had that update, so the only reason to repackage it would be to add extra value to the Hydra kit. And that only benefits the customers, not GW.
H.B.M.C. wrote: That and the Basilisk kit isn't a complete kit. Thanks to the recut of the Chimera sprue when the last Codex came out the Basilisk is incomplete, as it's missing default parts (like the hull HB). Making a new one that includes that right parts, and wrapping it up into the Hydra kit, fixes that issue.
I seriously doubt GW is going to invest the money in making new Basilisk sprues just so they can add a HB option that hardly anyone cares about.
Peregrine wrote: I seriously doubt GW is going to invest the money in making new Basilisk sprues just so they can add a HB option that hardly anyone cares about.
They wouldn't make a new Basilisk sprue. They would make a new artillery sprue that includes parts for the Basilisk (and Hydra, and anything else they can fit on).
H.B.M.C. wrote: They wouldn't make a new Basilisk sprue. They would make a new artillery sprue that includes parts for the Basilisk (and Hydra, and anything else they can fit on).
But that's the same as making a new Basilisk sprue. Look at it this way: redesigning a kit (including redesigning parts of it to fit a new hull) is almost as much work as designing a kit from scratch. So which is GW going to want to do: a redesign of the Basilisk that will probably have little impact on Basilisk sales and have zero appeal to people who already bought Basilisks, or an entirely new vehicle that everyone, including people who already own Basilisks, will want to buy? And when you answer, remember that GW already redid the Basilisk fairly recently and has work invested in making the Chimera/Basilisk/Hellhound kits, along with various FW tanks, share a lot of common parts. The obvious choice here is to keep the Basilisk kit as it is and spend their design work on making something entirely new for the Hydra, if a dual kit is going to happen at all. The only thing I would plausibly expect to see for the Basilisk is an additional sprue and price increase to include alternate gun barrels for the Medusa and Colossus.
But that's just it. They didn't recently redo the Basilisk. The sprues in the current Basilisk kit are the same ones they've always been. The Chimera part of the Basilisk has changed, but everything else hasn't.
To reduce the amount of sprues they produce, I can see them easily fitting a modular 'artillery' mount into the Hydra kit. Think of the Shadowsword kit. That has 6 tanks in there depending upon the amount of bits you use to make the barrel and whether or not you put a hull piece on the back. The same thing could be easily done for a bunch of arty pieces, all included with the Hydra so as to use the same open-topped back/balcony pieces.
H.B.M.C. wrote: But that's just it. They didn't recently redo the Basilisk. The sprues in the current Basilisk kit are the same ones they've always been. The Chimera part of the Basilisk has changed, but everything else hasn't.
But the Basilisk-specific sprues didn't need a change. The only problem with the kit was the Chimera hull, and that problem is fixed. It's a perfectly functional kit, and redesigning it to be an alternate option for the Hydra kit doesn't make much sense when GW could just make an entirely new alternate tank for the Hydra.
The same thing could be easily done for a bunch of arty pieces, all included with the Hydra so as to use the same open-topped back/balcony pieces.
But that doesn't make much sense. The Shadowsword was designed from the beginning to be a multi-tank kit, and the only change is a few gun barrel bits. The Hydra, on the other hand, has little in common with the Basilisk or other artillery tanks, beyond being a Chimera hull. You'd need a sprue of Hydra parts (including the whole turret section), a sprue of Basilisk parts, and sprue of other artillery parts (since the Basilisk sprue is already full). It would make about as much sense as putting the Hellhound sprues in with the Hydra, since the two have about as much in common as the Basilisk and Hydra.
I think a lot of the turret bits could carry over to a basilisk. You can even see in that image, the vertical rotation is done by a mechanism very similar to a basilisk. It has a big front shield that could be a basilisk shield.
It's worth noting that the new hydra kit has an open turret section more akin to the basilisk than the FW hydra kit.
I don't necessarily think the Hydra will be a dual kit with a Basi. It seems odd they'd have the Hydra pictured next to an old Basi if they were part of dual kit. Also the guns one the Hydra look huge and would take up a large portion of a sprue all by themselves. Just saying that I could believe a Basi COULD be a dual kit with that Hydra without needing too many extra parts beyond the cannon section itself.
Peregrine wrote: But the Basilisk-specific sprues didn't need a change. The only problem with the kit was the Chimera hull, and that problem is fixed. It's a perfectly functional kit, and redesigning it to be an alternate option for the Hydra kit doesn't make much sense when GW could just make an entirely new alternate tank for the Hydra.
Well it does. It's incomplete and an inefficient use of plastics. The amount of blank space on there is just a complete waste given their current method of sprue production, and combining it with other tanks would mean they have one less sprue to produce each year, cutting costs.
Peregrine wrote: But that doesn't make much sense. The Shadowsword was designed from the beginning to be a multi-tank kit, and the only change is a few gun barrel bits. The Hydra, on the other hand, has little in common with the Basilisk or other artillery tanks, beyond being a Chimera hull. You'd need a sprue of Hydra parts (including the whole turret section), a sprue of Basilisk parts, and sprue of other artillery parts (since the Basilisk sprue is already full). It would make about as much sense as putting the Hellhound sprues in with the Hydra, since the two have about as much in common as the Basilisk and Hydra.
You're not thinking this through. The Manticore and Deathstrike contain two utterly different shapes (4 Storm Eagle rockets vs 1 Deathstrike missile), as does the Hunter and whatever the other thing in that kit is, yet the parts all work together. Having four Hydra barrels left over isn't exactly unusual - kits have weapons left over all the time - and the parts that make up the Hydra turret can run double-duty to make up the Basilisk (or whatever) parts. It's not that difficult.
IMHO it should have been a hydra/ salamander kit and then basilisk/ medusa kit can't believe they managed to stuff up the hydra that bad but there you go. What gets me is the guy who designed the knight must have been in the same room as the guy who designed the new hydra. One should still be employed at gw the other, not so much.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: I think a lot of the turret bits could carry over to a basilisk. You can even see in that image, the vertical rotation is done by a mechanism very similar to a basilisk. It has a big front shield that could be a basilisk shield.
The rotation bits are different, and the gun shield doesn't have the hole in the center for the Basilisk's gun. I guess in theory you could use some of those parts to make a new Basilisk design, but then you're back to the problem of spending a lot of time and money to redesign a perfectly good existing kit instead of making something new for people to buy. A re-design like that only makes sense when there are major problems with the existing kit (the old Chimera/LRBT tracks, for example), not just a minor potential gain in sprue efficiency.
H.B.M.C. wrote: The Manticore and Deathstrike contain two utterly different shapes (4 Storm Eagle rockets vs 1 Deathstrike missile), as does the Hunter and whatever the other thing in that kit is, yet the parts all work together.
But that's because they were designed to work that way. If you want that kind of compatibility between the Basilisk and Hydra, if it's even possible, you'd have to completely redesign the Basilisk parts. And I can't imagine that the potential savings in a more efficient sprue design would justify having the sculptors and mold designers waste time working on minor upgrades to an existing kit (that presumably still sells at a profit) instead of making something entirely new that people can buy in addition to the current Basilisk.
And, again, there isn't anything other than wild speculation to suggest that GW is even attempting a Hydra/Basilisk combo kit.
Red wrote: IMHO it should have been a hydra/ salamander kit and then basilisk/ medusa kit can't believe they managed to stuff up the hydra that bad but there you go. What gets me is the guy who designed the knight must have been in the same room as the guy who designed the new hydra. One should still be employed at gw the other, not so much.
I think you might be alone in that opinion. I can't imagine why you think the Hydra is such a bad model, it looks very similar to the existing FW Hydra (and all of the art based on that kit), it's consistent with the rest of the IG vehicle designs (unlike the new transport abomination), and the open turret is similar to some real-world AA tanks.
Um most if not all modern anti air isn't open topped and the ww2 stuf that was could be loaded by the crew on the open topped vehicle. Which you can't do on this hydra. I know I'm trying to put logic into a gw tank but at least the old hydra you could stretch it to assume it had an internal magazine. All the 40k fluff on hydras has them as inclosed as well
Red wrote: Um most if not all modern anti air isn't open topped and the ww2 stuf that was could be loaded by the crew on the open topped vehicle. Which you can't do on this hydra. I know I'm trying to put logic into a gw tank but at least the old hydra you could stretch it to assume it had an internal magazine. All the 40k fluff on hydras has them as inclosed as well
Well yeah, but you may have noticed that IG tanks are based on WWI tanks with maybe a little WWII/modern influence in some of the details. You can nitpick about how it doesn't perfectly match the existing fluff (in a setting where there are countless different patterns of the same basic design), or isn't quite functional (like every other IG tank), but I can't see how you can reasonably claim that the new Hydra even remotely approaches "the designer should be fired".
Just my opinion I look at that kit and see an utter failure in tank and modelling design I feel that it's a kit people will buy based on rules as opposed to a nice looking kit. It's just when I look at it, it looks like little Timmy's ork conversion and not a well thought out imperial kit.
My gripe with it is by making it open topped they have instantly made it harder for the non cadian players to fit it in their army. I would have to go about converting some vostroyans to get it to fit. I am just going to spend a few £££ extra for the FW version or make an enclosed turret
Red wrote: Just my opinion I look at that kit and see an utter failure in tank and modelling design I feel that it's a kit people will buy based on rules as opposed to a nice looking kit. It's just when I look at it, it looks like little Timmy's ork conversion and not a well thought out imperial kit.
Are we still talking about the Hydra and not the transport? Because that's what an "utter failure" looks like. Even if the Hydra isn't exactly the perfect design that you wanted I can't see how any objective critic can call it an "utter failure".
Daston wrote: My gripe with it is by making it open topped they have instantly made it harder for the non cadian players to fit it in their army. I would have to go about converting some vostroyans to get it to fit. I am just going to spend a few £££ extra for the FW version or make an enclosed turret
TBH converting proper DKoK for the new Hydra is one thing I'm looking forward to.
Oh, and a warning about the FW Hydra: the molds are ancient and in desperate need of a complete redo. You've probably heard the horror stories about straightening warped barrels, but the whole gun pieces are a complete mess. Edges that are supposed to be straight boxes are wavy and distorted, the two halves of the mold don't line up well, etc. If you have high standards for your models expect to spend a lot of time repairing the parts and some of it is just impossible to fix.
And, again, there isn't anything other than wild speculation to suggest that GW is even attempting a Hydra/Basilisk combo kit.
Nothing much more than wild speculation on my part for a hydra/griffon kit either - I just thought it'd be nice to share my reasoning, as we're all going to find out in a few weeks anyway, and mainly my gut seems to be saying no to a basilisk being part of that kit. I could well be entirely wrong!
I'd be really pleased if they made an 'IG artillery kit' with colossus, griffon, basilisk and medusa all in one. Doesn't seem likely, especially given they already seem to have made a hydra kit... but hell maybe they're all in there?
Hey I know I just sound like a grumpy old nerd but like I said just my opinion. And if they are separate kits omg cause that mean they just cut and pasted bits from the current basilisk and manticore and made I whole new kit for no reason. As for the cobra snowmobile I'm not saying we aren't having a run of outs
I don't get how people can feel so strongly either way about the Hydra. It's just a Chimera with a quad gun. There's no conceivable way for that concept to turn out as anything other than strictly average.
Well, I suppose they could ruin it by plastering fleur de lis all over it for no reason, so that's one pitfall we avoided. Yay.
Daston wrote: My gripe with it is by making it open topped they have instantly made it harder for the non cadian players to fit it in their army. I would have to go about converting some vostroyans to get it to fit. I am just going to spend a few £££ extra for the FW version or make an enclosed turret
TBH converting proper DKoK for the new Hydra is one thing I'm looking forward to.
I wouldn't normally mind but worried about the vostroyans goin oop.
Red wrote: Just my opinion I look at that kit and see an utter failure in tank and modelling design I feel that it's a kit people will buy based on rules as opposed to a nice looking kit. It's just when I look at it, it looks like little Timmy's ork conversion and not a well thought out imperial kit.
Can you post an example of what you would have liked it to look like?
Okay, so I made an account just to comment on this thing that's been bugging me:
On some of the new Imperial models (the Knight, Taurox and Scions) we've been seeing these little decorative spike thingies. And for lack of a better term people have been calling them fleur-de-lis.
But they look more like a simple version of the Cross of Saint James, which itself is a kind of fitched cross / cross fitchy / croix fitchée. That being a cross with a pointed lower arm, which was a popular heraldric device during the Crusades.
(Also pics of the Scions and Taurox are still up here.)
Not going to lie, that picture of the Bullgryn with the tash... he just looks cracks me up... then you see the missile launcher and realise that any argument is invalid!
Fabio Bile wrote: Okay, so I made an account just to comment on this thing that's been bugging me:
On some of the new Imperial models (the Knight, Taurox and Scions) we've been seeing these little decorative spike thingies. And for lack of a better term people have been calling them fleur-de-lis.
But they look more like a simple version of the Cross of Saint James, which itself is a kind of fitched cross / cross fitchy / croix fitchée. That being a cross with a pointed lower arm, which was a popular heraldric device during the Crusades.
(Also pics of the Scions and Taurox are still up here.)
Good catch. I thought there was something odd about that "Fleur de Lys."
If preorders from first page are for March 29 with release of April 5 and with this image, are there any rumors of what is comming out for preorder on 22nd with release of 29th?
The Apoc: Damocles looks to be fiction for 418 pages, anything written for rules usally says "By the Games Workshop Design Studio"
Automatically Appended Next Post: HIDDEN IN PLAIN SIGHT MODEL FOUND!!!!!
Zyth:
I think I found the "Hidden in Plain Sight" IG image.
On the Tyranid Codex, page 9, on the first ArtWork (Phase 1: Invasion), you can see two vehicle with turret.
The one in the center (first from left side) is a random imperial tank.
The one on right (first from right side) is definitly a Taurox.
I think I found the "Hidden in Plain Sight" IG image.
On the Tyranid Codex, page 9, on the first ArtWork (Phase 1: Invasion), you can see two vehicle with turret.
The one in the center (first from left side) is a random imperial tank.
The one on right (first from right side) is definitly a Taurox.
Looks just like another generic tank with it's turret rotated through 90° to me.
Think if you check out the image of the Militarum Tempestus Taurox Prime/Astra Militarum Prime you will be able to see how similar the image in that picture is to the model,
WTF!?!? A 128 pages novella for 40€? Have they now completely lost their mind?
I am not commenting on the €125 limited edition as BL site has it listed for 50€.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: I think a lot of the turret bits could carry over to a basilisk. You can even see in that image, the vertical rotation is done by a mechanism very similar to a basilisk. It has a big front shield that could be a basilisk shield.
The rotation bits are different, and the gun shield doesn't have the hole in the center for the Basilisk's gun. I guess in theory you could use some of those parts to make a new Basilisk design, but then you're back to the problem of spending a lot of time and money to redesign a perfectly good existing kit instead of making something new for people to buy. A re-design like that only makes sense when there are major problems with the existing kit (the old Chimera/LRBT tracks, for example), not just a minor potential gain in sprue efficiency.
I didn't say you could make an identical Basilisk. Just that you could make one without too much effort. Not a lot of time and money redesigning, most the parts you need are already part of the Hydra.
Also, I don't see what the big deal was with the old Leman Russ tracks... I built several of them and they really weren't that challenging to put together. If you rested the track half on it's side, the "wheels" would sit upright in their correct position. Took me like 5 minutes to glue them all in.
Red wrote: Just my opinion I look at that kit and see an utter failure in tank and modelling design I feel that it's a kit people will buy based on rules as opposed to a nice looking kit. It's just when I look at it, it looks like little Timmy's ork conversion and not a well thought out imperial kit.
I agree.
Please don't attach non wargaming images to Dakka. You need to use an off site host if you wish to share any such images.
Reds8n
If they don't stay T5 they won't come off the shelf unless they are 20pts per model. We've got Tyranid Warrios that have a similar gun, similar stats (better shooting), and provide synapse/psyker defense in the 30pt range and they never come off the shelf. And they're even troops.
Yeah the downward slope on the face looks too extreme, and the legs are flipped the opposite way. Given, it could be a ton of converting, then a significant level of Photoshop, but I'm pretty positive it's just art (and a nice piece, at that).
It's digitally created artwork, I find it a bit farfetched to assume that it is an actual model reworked with photoshop. Besides, does the studio even have House Krast(?) models on display?
Dakka's own Col Gravis might have spotted another "in plain sight" mini.
I think its best described as a "fragile" rumour right now, but his reasoning, and modelling experience, probably make it worthy of consideration.
Actually, don't think it is a model. The post on my blog was made by a contributor to my blog.
I agree that the Knight in centre has the look of a model which has been dropped in and 'edited' via Photoshop, I disagree that it is likely to be a plastic Valhallan in plain sight dropped in similarly. Yes it does'nt match up to any of the metals, yes the Lasgun is a Cadian style rather then old style weapon, but no just because the Knight might well be dropped in, it does'nt mean everything else is.
Does 'the hand cannon' its standard weapon?
And about Leman Russ spare tracks. this gave the REAL image of how Leman Russ track ACTUALLY looks like and not really the same thing seen in old Leman Russ and Chimera kits for ages. but with shields, will there be different rules for shield because give them an armor save of Astartes doesn't really make senses meow. A shield requires a wielder some traning so he/she can face it against any incoming attacks.
The Apoc: Damocles looks to be fiction for 418 pages, anything written for rules usally says "By the Games Workshop Design Studio"
Automatically Appended Next Post: HIDDEN IN PLAIN SIGHT MODEL FOUND!!!!!
Zyth:
I think I found the "Hidden in Plain Sight" IG image.
On the Tyranid Codex, page 9, on the first ArtWork (Phase 1: Invasion), you can see two vehicle with turret.
The one in the center (first from left side) is a random imperial tank.
The one on right (first from right side) is definitly a Taurox.
I find it amusing how ogryns have tank treads as their armour....
Also I know we can always do it ourselves after, but I wish the ogryns had some wounds on their exposed skin. These guys just kind of run into the hot zones in a frenzy, I'd imagine they would have plenty of lacerations and small arms injuries - it would add to the realism.
It would make more sense if they were all high on the left and low on the right instead of one or the other. As-is, the shield wall doesn't work if one of them gets shot, or if two of them switch places.
It would make more sense if they were all high on the left and low on the right instead of one or the other. As-is, the shield wall doesn't work if one of them gets shot, or if two of them switch places.
The shield wall doesn't work for the Ogryn, certainly, but a normal human would be just fine cowering behind those
whembly wrote: That shield is just dying to be looted for my MegaNobz...
Between these guys and the Taurox, it's shaping up to be a great month for Orks players!
Sucks to be an Imperial Guard (or whatever the hell they want to call it now) player though...
-C6
I'm going to laugh really hard (and then cry) if the Ork release turns out to be a bunch of vehicles that would look amazing for IG but have very few Ork bits
Not particularly interesting, tbh, though Guard never have interested me.
One of those Ogyrns looks like Bane from The Dark Knight Rises though, which is great because it's a good opportunity to quote the film during the game. In-game film quoting can be very funny.
"So what happens if the blast marker scatters onto your Ogryns?"
"It would be very painful"
"But you're T5"
"For you"
"Right, I've got a Farseer, 2 units of 5 Avengers in Wave Serpents, 5 Warp Spiders with Exarch and two War Walkers with dual scatter lasers in my list. What about you?"
"It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan."
"Ok, let's see if Night Fighting is on."
*rolls die*
"Right, so Night Fighting is on for the first turn"
"Oh so you think darkness is your ally? But you merely adopted the dark, I was born in it, moulded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man and then it was nothing to me but blinding!"
"Ok, you need a 5 to glance... Aw, damn, that's the last hull point, you've wrecked my Rhino"
"I wondered what would break first, your Rhino... or your Land Raider."
Maybe bullgryns are smarter than ogryns? Doesnt take alot of training to say. "Ouch that hurts! Block the hurt with the metal thingy". Also i know folks dont like the armored or scout sentinels. But i hope they increase the unit size from 3 to 5 or more! It would make running them more feasable.
Or it can be horrible and repetitive. Like when someone quotes Monty Python's Grail for the umpteenth time. Or Braveheart, or Top Gun, or Red Dawn, or Aliens, or...
The Shadow wrote: Not particularly interesting, tbh, though Guard never have interested me.
One of those Ogyrns looks like Bane from The Dark Knight Rises though, which is great because it's a good opportunity to quote the film during the game. In-game film quoting can be very funny.
"So what happens if the blast marker scatters onto your Ogryns?"
"It would be very painful"
"But you're T5"
"For you"
"Right, I've got a Farseer, 2 units of 5 Avengers in Wave Serpents, 5 Warp Spiders with Exarch and two War Walkers with dual scatter lasers in my list. What about you?"
"It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan."
"Ok, let's see if Night Fighting is on."
*rolls die*
"Right, so Night Fighting is on for the first turn"
"Oh so you think darkness is your ally? But you merely adopted the dark, I was born in it, moulded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man and then it was nothing to me but blinding!"
"Ok, you need a 5 to glance... Aw, damn, that's the last hull point, you've wrecked my Rhino"
"I wondered what would break first, your Rhino... or your Land Raider."
The Shadow wrote: Not particularly interesting, tbh, though Guard never have interested me.
One of those Ogyrns looks like Bane from The Dark Knight Rises though, which is great because it's a good opportunity to quote the film during the game. In-game film quoting can be very funny.
"So what happens if the blast marker scatters onto your Ogryns?"
"It would be very painful"
"But you're T5"
"For you"
"Right, I've got a Farseer, 2 units of 5 Avengers in Wave Serpents, 5 Warp Spiders with Exarch and two War Walkers with dual scatter lasers in my list. What about you?"
"It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan."
"Ok, let's see if Night Fighting is on."
*rolls die*
"Right, so Night Fighting is on for the first turn"
"Oh so you think darkness is your ally? But you merely adopted the dark, I was born in it, moulded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man and then it was nothing to me but blinding!"
"Ok, you need a 5 to glance... Aw, damn, that's the last hull point, you've wrecked my Rhino"
"I wondered what would break first, your Rhino... or your Land Raider."
Best. Post. Ever. Seriously, that was awesome.
Yeeaaah. My limit for polite laughter is usually three movie/tv quotes per pick up game. This escalates pretty quickly from polite laughter to brutal stabbing by the fifth or six quote.
So who thinks there's a chance that there will be supplement codex's for different armies down the road? Also is there any chance that were could still be another new tank? What happened to the rumors of the new flyer?
Zengu wrote: So who thinks there's a chance that there will be supplement codex's for different armies down the road?
Anyone with even a vague understanding of GW's current business model. We can expect to see a new "codex" for every single IG regiment ever mentioned (even if they all use Cadian models), dataslates for every IG unit, and probably Codex: Lasgun for those of you who want to arm your space marines and boyz with lasguns. We can also expect them to cost $50 each.
Also is there any chance that were could still be another new tank?
There's always a chance, but it's not that likely. The Hydra and the Abomination already take up two "big kit" release slots, and there never was more than a single vague "kind of like a Malcador" rumor to support the idea.
What happened to the rumors of the new flyer?
No confirmation, but probably more likely than the tank. GW loves making ugly new flyers, and the Valkyrie isn't very cinematic at forging narratives about epic dogfights between aces.
Symbio Joe wrote: @MeanGreenStompa
I applaud you, good Sir. Have this exalt as a token of gratitude for the hilarity you provided me with.
Modstruck from the records...
Anyways...
I'm not sure if it's the paint job or the 3d sculpting on these ogryns but they seem really 'soft' in some areas and then weirdly sharp angled in others. Also the detail is somehow really lacking in the faces, they just have no character to them, the only ones I don't mind are the banemask ones, because their faces are obscured, and those still have this strange highly artificial feel to them that's difficult to express. Something in their design is just 'off'.
MrMoustaffa wrote: So I guess that random guy who claimed Ogryn got sent to his store by accident weeks ago was legit.
Did anyone ever note who he was?
Im sure he was assassinated by the GW legal team. Black Helicopters and men in expensive suits came crashing down and beat him to death with rolled up cease and desist letters =P
MrMoustaffa wrote: So I guess that random guy who claimed Ogryn got sent to his store by accident weeks ago was legit.
Did anyone ever note who he was?
Im sure he was assassinated by the GW legal team. Black Helicopters and men in expansive suits came crashing down and beat him to death with rolled up cease and desist letters =P
Just like poor Dr. Rockso....the rocking roll clown No one deserves that.
Kolbalt266 wrote: If preorders from first page are for March 29 with release of April 5 and with this image, are there any rumors of what is comming out for preorder on 22nd with release of 29th?
Dataslate: Helbrutes? I haven't kept up with most of the digital stuff, but does that imply they are getting new rules?
As to the Hydra, is it possible that the top of the chassis is actually two pieces, with the curved, raised lip being the back of the front piece, and the portion the gun's turret is resting on being another? That would allow for a open-topped variant of chimera to be the alternate build with slightly more room in the back section, and a cleaner look, than if the same was done with the current basilisk kit.
krazynadechukr wrote: If ythis were all they planned to release for guard, I'd be.....very unhappy.
That's 4 new plastic kits. That's pretty solid for a release. Yeah, I'd love plastic Mordians or Valhallans, but we've got 4 plastic kits coming out. That's pretty decent.
Kolbalt266 wrote: If preorders from first page are for March 29 with release of April 5 and with this image, are there any rumors of what is comming out for preorder on 22nd with release of 29th?
Dataslate: Helbrutes? I haven't kept up with most of the digital stuff, but does that imply they are getting new rules?
As to the Hydra, is it possible that the top of the chassis is actually two pieces, with the curved, raised lip being the back of the front piece, and the portion the gun's turret is resting on being another? That would allow for a open-topped variant of chimera to be the alternate build with slightly more room in the back section, and a cleaner look, than if the same was done with the current basilisk kit.
Helbrutes certainly need it if they even want to be remotely usable! As for the hydra, i think it wouldnt work as a hydra since the cab in front is a completely different shape (the same as a manticore) so its unlikely they would build it like that
Symbio Joe wrote: @MeanGreenStompa
I applaud you, good Sir. Have this exalt as a token of gratitude for the hilarity you provided me with.
Modstruck from the records...
Anyways...
I'm not sure if it's the paint job or the 3d sculpting on these ogryns but they seem really 'soft' in some areas and then weirdly sharp angled in others. Also the detail is somehow really lacking in the faces, they just have no character to them, the only ones I don't mind are the banemask ones, because their faces are obscured, and those still have this strange highly artificial feel to them that's difficult to express. Something in their design is just 'off'.
GW painters have this tendency to paint hard edges where no hard edges exist on the model. They do it all the time I have no idea why. One that I myself have been painting recently, look at the Savage Orcs GW has on their website, they look like all the muscles have hard square edges and crevices that almost look like panel lines on a tank.... they don't.... the painters just did an "edge highlight" where no edge exists and "panel lining" where no sharp crevice line exists.
jae4x4 wrote:Being a long time guard player, I am very upset with the rumours so far, if it had of been me i would have released the following...
Steel Legion = Company Command, Platoon Command, Basic Troops
Plastic Storm Troopers
New Rough Riders
New HQ units
Plastic Hydra/Griffon Mortar
One problem with IG, they came out in a time where GW would make a bunch of different models with lots of variety and cast them in metal. Now that GW is going away from metal and resin, they can't have nearly as expansive of a range as they used to have back in the day. So where GW used to have heaps of flavours of IG and actually had models for them, I think we're going to see them consolidating even further to just Cadians and Catachans.
generalchaos34 wrote: As for the hydra, i think it wouldnt work as a hydra since the cab in front is a completely different shape (the same as a manticore) so its unlikely they would build it like that
Sorry, to clarify I meant something a long the lines of the griffon which (I believe) has the heavy mortar placed on the bed of the vehicle rather than on top, like how the hydra is modeled.
Symbio Joe wrote: @MeanGreenStompa
I applaud you, good Sir. Have this exalt as a token of gratitude for the hilarity you provided me with.
Modstruck from the records...
Anyways...
I'm not sure if it's the paint job or the 3d sculpting on these ogryns but they seem really 'soft' in some areas and then weirdly sharp angled in others. Also the detail is somehow really lacking in the faces, they just have no character to them, the only ones I don't mind are the banemask ones, because their faces are obscured, and those still have this strange highly artificial feel to them that's difficult to express. Something in their design is just 'off'.
GW painters have this tendency to paint hard edges where no hard edges exist on the model. They do it all the time I have no idea why. One that I myself have been painting recently, look at the Savage Orcs GW has on their website, they look like all the muscles have hard square edges and crevices that almost look like panel lines on a tank.... they don't.... the painters just did an "edge highlight" where no edge exists and "panel lining" where no sharp crevice line exists.
jae4x4 wrote:Being a long time guard player, I am very upset with the rumours so far, if it had of been me i would have released the following...
Steel Legion = Company Command, Platoon Command, Basic Troops
Plastic Storm Troopers
New Rough Riders
New HQ units
Plastic Hydra/Griffon Mortar
One problem with IG, they came out in a time where GW would make a bunch of different models with lots of variety and cast them in metal. Now that GW is going away from metal and resin, they can't have nearly as expansive of a range as they used to have back in the day. So where GW used to have heaps of flavours of IG and actually had models for them, I think we're going to see them consolidating even further to just Cadians and Catachans.
I can answer one aspect and that is the first part. Simply those at Eavy Metal have never done military modelling in their lives, they began their painting careers in the GW "TRON" Affect, putting bloody highlight lines on everything. It is exceptionally poor practice at best, deplorable at worst. I get far better "REAL WORLD" paint appearence than what ever Eavy Metal gets.
It all looks good at a distance, but using close up photography for magazines shows up how horrible those paint jobs really are. Woeful, next time anyone from the Eavy Metal team walks by a newsagent please pick up Fine Scale Modeling and see what "REAL WORLD" paint schemes look like.
generalchaos34 wrote: As for the hydra, i think it wouldnt work as a hydra since the cab in front is a completely different shape (the same as a manticore) so its unlikely they would build it like that
Sorry, to clarify I meant something a long the lines of the griffon which (I believe) has the heavy mortar placed on the bed of the vehicle rather than on top, like how the hydra is modeled.
Im firmly in the Hydra/Griffon camp because its not too much extra bits (since they are cheap) and the shapes allow for a mounted mortar where the men are on the turret (or remove the turret and place the shield up against that curved piece.
The Shadow wrote: Not particularly interesting, tbh, though Guard never have interested me.
One of those Ogyrns looks like Bane from The Dark Knight Rises though, which is great because it's a good opportunity to quote the film during the game. In-game film quoting can be very funny.
Spoiler:
"So what happens if the blast marker scatters onto your Ogryns?"
"It would be very painful"
"But you're T5"
"For you"
"Right, I've got a Farseer, 2 units of 5 Avengers in Wave Serpents, 5 Warp Spiders with Exarch and two War Walkers with dual scatter lasers in my list. What about you?"
"It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan."
"Ok, let's see if Night Fighting is on."
*rolls die*
"Right, so Night Fighting is on for the first turn"
"Oh so you think darkness is your ally? But you merely adopted the dark, I was born in it, moulded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man and then it was nothing to me but blinding!"
"Ok, you need a 5 to glance... Aw, damn, that's the last hull point, you've wrecked my Rhino"
"I wondered what would break first, your Rhino... or your Land Raider."
Endriu Death Coy wrote: Bring back the Imperial beastmen for the guard!!! I miss those abhuman guys!
Considering it looks like they are movie the storm troopers out of the IG and into their own short-dex(like imperial knight, inquisition, etc) there will be more room in the IG... er AM codex.
Of course its possible the strom troopers will be in both AM and TM, but with a release right on top of one another I don'e think its very likely.
I have to admit, the new truck is growing on me. It doesn't look nearly as goofy as it did the first time I saw it. Maybe the shock and horror has work off.
Lone Cat wrote: I don't understand why feline gesture is considered 'disrespectful' here?
gossipmeng wrote: I find it amusing how ogryns have tank treads as their armour....
Leman Russ tracks should be separate pieces. groin plates can be anything thick and not fragile. actually Astartes tank tracks can do as well.
I appreciate your feline point of view- it's refreshing to see something other than the standard dakka post template. Variety is the spice of life after all.
I thought the tank treads looked pretty cool to me. Still gives a little mobility while offering protection. Might be a little rough on the jimmies though. The only gripe I have is the steel plate on the shirt... After being pointed out, it's just really jarring. Looks like it can be easily filed off though if anyone doesn't like it.
Endriu Death Coy wrote: Bring back the Imperial beastmen for the guard!!! I miss those abhuman guys!
Considering it looks like they are movie the storm troopers out of the IG and into their own short-dex(like imperial knight, inquisition, etc) there will be more room in the IG... er AM codex.
Of course its possible the strom troopers will be in both AM and TM, but with a release right on top of one another I don'e think its very likely.
I don't think GW is stupid enough to make a plastic kit that has been VERY high in demand for IG and then not include it in the codex. They wouldn't want to risk people not buying the models, even as a plot to push an extra $50 book.
We'll probably get a generic Stormtrooper entry in the regular codex, and the supplement will give us 2 pages of rules letting us take them as a detachment as troops and an HQ with useless warlord abilities. The rest will be things saying "you can take X transports, see Codex IG for details." That, and if the Stormtroopers are still packing Ap 3 guns they will be horribly overpriced.
What I'm curious about will be if the background in the storm trooper book will be any good. I'm borrowing a copy of the night dex and really liked the background in it, even if there wasn't a lot of it.
Codex Astra Militarum is the new IMPERIAL GUARD CODEX
Then a mail order only Codex Militarum Tempestus, WHICH IS SEPERATE FROM imperial guard, is a 72 page hardback, for the Militarum Tempestus (which are not actually guard, but more like auxuilary forces)... I believe the taurox, Scions, and maybe Ogryns are in this codex....
Scions have not been called STORMTROOPERS or associated with Imperial Guard in anyway. They are Militarum Tempestus Scions. (I believe these models will be called stormtroopers in the guard codex, and the Scions are something different.)
Big Transport (Taurox for IG, Taurox Prime for Scions) ... this kit does give dual name for tempestus & guard.... unlike scions box...
Ogryn/Bullgryn box, is unseen box so far, and on the box might be either "astra" or "tempestus" or both, and in one or both codexes, depending on how they are taken...
Codex Astra Militarum is the new IMPERIAL GUARD CODEX
Then a mail order only Codex Militarum Tempestus, WHICH IS SEPERATE FROM imperial guard, is a 72 page hardback, for the Militarum Tempestus (which are not actually guard, but more like auxuilary forces)... I believe the taurox, Scions, and maybe Ogryns are in this codex....
Scions have not been called STORMTROOPERS or associated with Imperial Guard in anyway. They are Militarum Tempestus Scions. (I believe these models will be called stormtroopers in the guard codex, and the Scions are something different.)
Big Transport (Taurox for IG, Taurox Prime for Scions) ... this kit does give dual name for tempestus & guard.... unlike scions box...
Ogryn/Bullgryn box, is unseen box so far, and on the box might be either "astra" or "tempestus" or both, and in one or both codexes, depending on how they are taken...
Thoughts?
That we still don't know a whole hell of a lot.........
I'm still very green when it comes to Warhammer 40k. I've been playing war hammer for about 4 mouths and before that I've played every flgs game under the sun. But Games Workshop is still baffling to me... Every other business I can think of advertises months in advance of up coming new products but not Games Workshop they keep everything under wraps like its a national secret and hates when leaks get out. Have they ever said why they do it this way? I just think its silly a week before the first things come out for guard and there's still nothing but rumors .
Zengu wrote: I'm still very green when it comes to war hammer. I've been playing war hammer for about 4 mouths and before that I've played every flgs game under the sun. But games workshop is still baffling to me... Every other business I can think of advertises mouths in advance of up coming new products but not games workshop they keep everything under wraps like its a national secret and hates when leaks get out. Have they ever said why they do it this way? I just think its silly a week before the first things come out for guard and there's still nothing but rumors . off.
They're the "premium" product on the market. You shouldn't need to see previews months in advance to want to buy their product, because you should know it will be the best anyways
On a serious note, take a look at what happens when some companies put out previews and stuff months in advance of it releasing. If you preview too early, most excitement will die down before the models are released, meaning you might loose potential impulse buys. Previewing rules might also turn off others if it turns out that they're not top tier cheese, which could also lower sales.
And as a bit of proof of concept, how many of you saw a pic of Victoria Lamb's full Female Arcadian squad before it was set for preorder? We got a couple of teaser images, but that was about it. By not showing them until right before preorders hit, she maximized the amount of impulse buys. Only thing that saved me was my tax return isn't in yet.
So there is some logic behind what GW does. I don't like it, but I can understand why they do so. I do wish they would preview a pic of like an Ogryn or a single trooper a few months in advance to build anticipation and excitement, but I can live.
Zengu wrote: I'm still very green when it comes to war hammer. I've been playing war hammer for about 4 mouths and before that I've played every flgs game under the sun. But games workshop is still baffling to me... Every other business I can think of advertises mouths in advance of up coming new products but not games workshop they keep everything under wraps like its a national secret and hates when leaks get out. Have they ever said why they do it this way? I just think its silly a week before the first things come out for guard and there's still nothing but rumors . off.
They're the "premium" product on the market. You shouldn't need to see previews months in advance to want to buy their product, because you should know it will be the best anyways
On a serious note, take a look at what happens when some companies put out previews and stuff months in advance of it releasing. If you preview too early, most excitement will die down before the models are released, meaning you might loose potential impulse buys. Previewing rules might also turn off others if it turns out that they're not top tier cheese, which could also lower sales.
And as a bit of proof of concept, how many of you saw a pic of Victoria Lamb's full Female Arcadian squad before it was set for preorder? We got a couple of teaser images, but that was about it. By not showing them until right before preorders hit, she maximized the amount of impulse buys. Only thing that saved me was my tax return isn't in yet.
So there is some logic behind what GW does. I don't like it, but I can understand why they do so. I do wish they would preview a pic of like an Ogryn or a single trooper a few months in advance to build anticipation and excitement, but I can live.
Not to mention you don't hit the market with 3 other companies having released models that are a "not" version of what you're about to release. At GW's prices, they really can't afford too much competition!
Zengu wrote: I'm still very green when it comes to war hammer. I've been playing war hammer for about 4 mouths and before that I've played every flgs game under the sun. But games workshop is still baffling to me... Every other business I can think of advertises mouths in advance of up coming new products but not games workshop they keep everything under wraps like its a national secret and hates when leaks get out. Have they ever said why they do it this way? I just think its silly a week before the first things come out for guard and there's still nothing but rumors . off.
They're the "premium" product on the market. You shouldn't need to see previews months in advance to want to buy their product, because you should know it will be the best anyways
On a serious note, take a look at what happens when some companies put out previews and stuff months in advance of it releasing. If you preview too early, most excitement will die down before the models are released, meaning you might loose potential impulse buys. Previewing rules might also turn off others if it turns out that they're not top tier cheese, which could also lower sales.
And as a bit of proof of concept, how many of you saw a pic of Victoria Lamb's full Female Arcadian squad before it was set for preorder? We got a couple of teaser images, but that was about it. By not showing them until right before preorders hit, she maximized the amount of impulse buys. Only thing that saved me was my tax return isn't in yet.
So there is some logic behind what GW does. I don't like it, but I can understand why they do so. I do wish they would preview a pic of like an Ogryn or a single trooper a few months in advance to build anticipation and excitement, but I can live.
Not to mention you don't hit the market with 3 other companies having released models that are a "not" version of what you're about to release.
At GW's prices, they really can't afford too much competition!
Oh yeah definitely. Vic couldn't have timed that release better if she tried.
Zengu wrote: I'm still very green when it comes to war hammer. I've been playing war hammer for about 4 mouths and before that I've played every flgs game under the sun. But games workshop is still baffling to me... Every other business I can think of advertises mouths in advance of up coming new products but not games workshop they keep everything under wraps like its a national secret and hates when leaks get out. Have they ever said why they do it this way? I just think its silly a week before the first things come out for guard and there's still nothing but rumors . off.
GW have stated publicly that they do it because they think that people finding out about stuff at the last minute makes them more excited about the release and so more inclined to rush out and buy it.
I wonder if it will be an alternate kit for the manticore? It has the same crew hatch at the front the current Manticore/Deathstrike arty has.
THe Ogryns are neat and all but unless they are cheaper and have a few things that make them worth while Im not going to take them.... I might make some modded guardsmen to be "ogrin" but perhaps only for the sake of building some and the option to fool around.
As for the rumored "Big Tank" and transport. I dunno.
If they are "based on the Malcador" which itself is a terrible tank then there is no real reason. The only possible way a malcador-like tank could work is if it has heavy firepower and armor like a Russ on steroids. AS a normal LRBT can beat a Malcador head to head while being cheaper, having more firepower, and armor.
The transport on the other hand... eh.. ill have to see it to consider it, im armor heavy but then again shuttling around my few troopers would be nice. I heard something about a Dog Fighter model. has anyone see hide or hair of that? guys at my store think it might be the Thunderbolt but Im iffy. Something tells me we might end up with a tiny little air plane with AA guns, as opposed to the brute fighter bomber from FW, if we get anything of the sorts at all.
MrMoustaffa wrote: On a serious note, take a look at what happens when some companies put out previews and stuff months in advance of it releasing. If you preview too early, most excitement will die down before the models are released, meaning you might loose potential impulse buys.
That really comes down to how you handle the preview.
Look at how movie studios handle it - they start offering teasers months out, and gradually show more and more as the release gets closer. That (assuming that the product is good) gradually builds excitement so that by the time the release actually happens, people want what it is you're selling.
The GW approach means that stuff just appears out of the blue, and people are left for years not knowing if or when anything new is going to come out for their chosen army. I've come across quite a few people over the years who wound up dropping the game entirely due to the lack of attention their army was getting with no word from GW that this was ever likely to change.
Hell, we had people on this very forum, when Dark Eldar finally got their 5th edition codex, mentioning that they had dumped all of their stuff a short time before the release. A few choice teasers offered up in the months before the release date, and those people might still be customers.
Zengu wrote: I'm still very green when it comes to war hammer. I've been playing war hammer for about 4 mouths and before that I've played every flgs game under the sun. But games workshop is still baffling to me... Every other business I can think of advertises mouths in advance of up coming new products but not games workshop they keep everything under wraps like its a national secret and hates when leaks get out. Have they ever said why they do it this way? I just think its silly a week before the first things come out for guard and there's still nothing but rumors . off.
Yea I know the flag is not a real representation of where you live but this post hurt my brain.
This is the way GW does business So second and third party Companies don't have the opportunity to get models out before GW.
It is Warhammer or Warhammer 40K it still might put a misspell line under it but it is correct and Months is what you were looking for in this part
insaniak wrote: Hell, we had people on this very forum, when Dark Eldar finally got their 5th edition codex, mentioning that they had dumped all of their stuff a short time before the release. A few choice teasers offered up in the months before the release date, and those people might still be customers.
It's kinda sad that they actually showed Dark Eldar off farther in advance than all their releases now, and it still felt like it should have been revealed earlier (like a few years earlier, 10+ years for an update is fething stupid). I'm pretty sure back then if anyone said "Just wait, GW won't start previewing stuff a week before release next!" everyone would have called them a troll or a hater.
Previewing models isn't s terrible idea. I remember when pics first started leaking of the Storm Raven. Lots of people hated the 'chibi hawk'. As time went on it started to grow on people and once people got used to the look, people went from 'It looks like crap!' to 'Its not that bad I guess' and those people probably bought at least 1.
sonofruss wrote: This is the way GW does business So second and third party Companies don't have the opportunity to get models out before GW.
But this shouldn't even be an issue. If third-party companies are just starting work on a new model when GW previews it there's no way they're going to beat GW to market with a high-quality kit. Third-party competition is only a factor when GW releases powerful rules with an ugly model (or no model at all), or when GW charges so much for a model that a third-party company can undercut them and still make a good profit. And those are both poor business decisions by GW. Fix their incompetent management and previewing models weeks/months in advance should never be a problem.
Yea now that is the way but back when they showed pics of things they didn't have in the Que for being made a kit aftermarket companies made alternative parts to build them and you have the bug codex with all the pods doom and such removed.
sonofruss wrote: This is the way GW does business So second and third party Companies don't have the opportunity to get models out before GW.
That's a myth.
I 'unno Commissar. It could be a legend
herp derp derp.
In any case, we're at the 14th of march, halfway through the month, alittle time will tell if all the waiting is worth it....or if it'll be a bunch of dud releases
What kills me about GW's marketing strategy, is that they seem to really want to push online sales and pre-orders, yet they only let the public know the product even exists just days before release. With the change to weekly releases the window only seems to be getting tighter and tighter.
They even run into production shortages from underestimating demand and thus lose sales due to lack of product. Having something available for pre-order on their online store for a month or two before release would let them gauge demand and encourage people to buy direct (which they are not doing right now). GW has one of the most bizarre business strategies I've ever seen, and they seem to almost be at war with themselves half the time.
Zengu wrote: I'm still very green when it comes to war hammer. I've been playing war hammer for about 4 mouths and before that I've played every flgs game under the sun. But games workshop is still baffling to me... Every other business I can think of advertises mouths in advance of up coming new products but not games workshop they keep everything under wraps like its a national secret and hates when leaks get out. Have they ever said why they do it this way? I just think its silly a week before the first things come out for guard and there's still nothing but rumors . off.
GW have stated publicly that they do it because they think that people finding out about stuff at the last minute makes them more excited about the release and so more inclined to rush out and buy it.
Ofc everybody knows that previews kill the market! In Spain today Paramount is going to preview the first 10 minutes of the new Captain America movie on TV ahead of the opening, somebody tell them that they are doing it wrong! (Happens in Japan with kid's movies too, the opening minutes of a new movie just before an older one in TV happens from time to time)
Thanks for reminding me how illogical GW is sometimes.
M.
I'm not saying GW are right in their marketing, but you can't really compare it to movies. Movie trailers attempt to hype up a movie and they can take bits and pieces of even a bad movie to make it look better than it is to get people in to watch it anyway.
When it comes to miniatures, you show the miniatures and people either like them or don't and will buy them or not. Unlike movies, I don't think you can overhype miniatures... they are what they are and once you've shown them you've shown them.
Now, I don't agree with GW's marketing in general, but I think they're probably right in thinking people buy miniatures on impulse more than they buy them on hype where as movies are mostly hype driven.
GW makes the best miniatures in the world so according to the gospel of Kirby not liking an upcoming release wouldn't be possible. but if they are not so confident after all why not give us fluff or concept art teasers instead to generate expectations or God forbid even rules teasers?
Nah that's for amateurs, GW knows how it's done (and last shareholder report appears to agree... not)
They could do artwork and fluff things to build hype. I guess I'm not the sort of person who really cares about that stuff and just want to see the miniatures, lol.
Like I said, I don't agree with GW's marketing scheme (if it can even be called "marketing"), I just don't feel comparisons to movies or games are all that accurate.
I'm sure part of the reason is also that they don't want sales of existing models to die 6 months before the release of a new codex. Though only GW themselves know those numbers. I'm sure it varies from army to army.
Zengu wrote: I'm still very green when it comes to war hammer. I've been playing war hammer for about 4 mouths and before that I've played every flgs game under the sun. But games workshop is still baffling to me... Every other business I can think of advertises mouths in advance of up coming new products but not games workshop they keep everything under wraps like its a national secret and hates when leaks get out. Have they ever said why they do it this way? I just think its silly a week before the first things come out for guard and there's still nothing but rumors . off.
They're the "premium" product on the market. You shouldn't need to see previews months in advance to want to buy their product, because you should know it will be the best anyways
On a serious note, take a look at what happens when some companies put out previews and stuff months in advance of it releasing. If you preview too early, most excitement will die down before the models are released, meaning you might loose potential impulse buys. Previewing rules might also turn off others if it turns out that they're not top tier cheese, which could also lower sales.
And as a bit of proof of concept, how many of you saw a pic of Victoria Lamb's full Female Arcadian squad before it was set for preorder? We got a couple of teaser images, but that was about it. By not showing them until right before preorders hit, she maximized the amount of impulse buys. Only thing that saved me was my tax return isn't in yet.
So there is some logic behind what GW does. I don't like it, but I can understand why they do so. I do wish they would preview a pic of like an Ogryn or a single trooper a few months in advance to build anticipation and excitement, but I can live.
And yet we saw pics of FW's Myrmidons and Castellax nearly a year in advance of their release dates, and it's fair to say they're doing fairly well. The same's true of most FW products these days - between the Open Day and the HH Weekender we have a pretty good idea of what we'll be getting from Forgeworld months in advance, and going by GW's financials they seem to be growing while the rest of the company stagnates.
"Impulse" purchasing only works with products which are priced so that an individual purchase seems insignificant to the customer, that's why the sweeties and chewing gum are on the counter next to the tills in shops, why the console accessories are right in front of the door into a videogame store next to the monthly deals, why hardware stores have batteries and lightbulbs etc right next to where you queue up to pay. GWmight be able to claim they were restricting info to drive impulse buys if they accompanied major releases with a proper marketing blitz, or if they priced their products to be bargains in comparison to other companies, but since neither is the case that explanation falls apart.
