Knockagh wrote: Argh that warlord is not what I imagined at all. It was always going to be way beynd my hobby budget but it's definitely a lazy offering from FW. Still though would have been nice to have some decent proper warlord style eye candy. The driver is pretty cool though.
Not sure if lazy but definetly misguided (to my mind). Looks a bit too much like just a giant imperial knight. Wonder if there will be a chaos version.
I did think it looked too much like a bigger Knight to start with, but people pointed out it is actually pretty close to the epic model for the Warlord, and I like the Knights anyway so I decided to just embrace it.
It is just a large knight. I always imagined a fairly large crew in a warlord. Can't see the crew I imagined fitting in the skinny assed frame of a knight type Titan. Maybe there will be a bulkier pattern come out some day. Anyone want to put a guess out there on the crazy expected price? I go £700, arms extra at £60 a pop.
I don't think anyone is disputing that. At least in my case, I was hoping it would end up looking like this instead...
The writing though was on the wall when the curvy knight came out and the final nail on the idea's coffin was the discontinuation of the blocky warhound.
warboss wrote: I don't think anyone is disputing that. At least in my case, I was hoping it would end up looking like this instead...
The writing though was on the wall when the curvy knight came out and the final nail on the idea's coffin was the discontinuation of the blocky warhound.
I don't think I like Sigismund. I don't feel the pose overly suits him, and I'd definitely give him a helmet. And like aka_mythos above said, it looks too much torso. I'll wait til there's more photos but I'm not sold yet. I almost prefer the IF command set guy as him, I think the pose is better and it looks identical to the art on Templar, about him.
I do like Guilliman though. Wanna see more photos, but I think he's gonna be my first Primarch model.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
I love those UM breachers. The Blade Slave things look cool, more Gal Vorbak like possessed are welcome, and the White Scars look intriguing.
They look great. It's just my army was built as mark 4 largely because the previewed artwork, including pics f the suzerains was all mark 4. But yeah there were pics of Invictari and Honour guard. Not sure if different units or the same. Just means they wot fit as we'll with te rest of my army.
Totalwar1402 wrote: Did not have white scars pegged as a mark 2 army. Surprising.
MkIV was a late addition, and mostly traitor legions got it because Horus sorted that out, and the WS were always on the outskirts probably away from any kind of reliable restocking system so they wouldn't have had much MkIV at all probably. MkIII seems too cumbersome for them so MkII does fit best fluff wise.
Totalwar1402 wrote: Did not have white scars pegged as a mark 2 army. Surprising.
I'm chuffed they are - they'll match my existing Scars nicely. In the backstory, MkII was marked as the armour that affected the wearers agility the least. Add that to the fact that the Scars were off on the fringes, and MkII would probably be the most common, MkIII very rarely used due to it's bulky clanking nature and Mk IV as available but rare:
I'm surprised GW has let FW make an official one as I was beginning to think they'd reserved them for the 'Good Guys' only
Not much to comment on. Yes it's Chaos, yes it's made according to the aesthetics of the previous Chaos possessed Warhound and Reaver Titans. It was kinda expected.
Guilliman is absolutely awful. Can across the pics on twitter and for a moment I thought Guilliman a conversion from the BA captain and just sprayed in FW grey primer. Then I realised. He looks like any generic SM captain, nothing to distiguish him, nothing remotely Primarchy about him. His powerfist makes him looks like on of the early 1980's/90's sculpts that are all cast in one solid piece.
Sigismund looks cool but work could be done. The sword across the body blocks most of the detail on him. Also, did Sigismund and the rest of the First Company or Sword Brethren or whatever they were called, wear black, which is why they all became Black Templars?
Those shield guys are too detailed by a long shot, can't even make out what they look like. Why do Ultramarines always have to bling things out to the the max? At least BA do it tastefully with trim, gold armour or other relatively simple bling, compared to basically every UM model which is absolute covered in medals and trophies like an army general with Small Man syndrome.
That titan. They really couldn't have made it worse? Sure, its big. Not exactly to scale with the reaver though. The reaver stands 16", the Warlord should be approxiately 50% taller (24") and it looks small. They didn't exactly go creative with it, did they? Literally took a Knight on a 3D modelling, made it bigger and added guns. Lazy design and ugly as well. I was hopeful when I saw the head, but this doesn't fit the design aesthetic of the other titans. I don't even mind that it isn't square like the Lucius Warhound, only that it looks completely different to the Mars pattern Reaver and Warhound and just doesn't fit.
True but I always assumed that they and te blood angels are styled to focus on their speed and so would get the sleeker armor with the smoother lines. Mark 2 has been associated with the clunkier heavy legions like iron warriors iron hands and death guard.
Still think BA will be mark 4. Dark angels mark 2 and the wolves mark 4.
Totalwar1402 wrote: True but I always assumed that they and te blood angels are styled to focus on their speed and so would get the sleeker armor with the smoother lines. Mark 2 has been associated with the clunkier heavy legions like iron warriors iron hands and death guard.
Still think BA will be mark 4. Dark angels mark 2 and the wolves mark 4.
MkIII is more for heavier legions I'd say. Everyone started of with MkII. It was mostly traitors who got MkIV, the loyalists got very little of it until the IF did their thing on Mars and then they got some. If they go by the fluff, BA and SW will have MkII most likely. MkII isn't slow or heavy, it's marginally slower than MkIV I think and slightly heavier armoured.
So what are the legion rules for ultra and Gulli stats? Can you ask somebody with the book?
No Thiel?
Three unique units?
Ultra termies? Yes please.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Shame Ventanos doesn't have a paragon blade but he has some beast special rules. Wonder if he will get a unique model.
Spoke to Alan Bligh, book 6 may not be second part of the Ultramar campaign - the order has gone fluid again. He's mentioned a desire to do more Conquest books, as the ability to 'pan out' to the wider conflict instead of specific battles would be good. No firm clue what the next book is, could be anything at this point.
Plus Alan also confirmed that they're wanting to expedite basic upgrade kits for all Legions. No particular order, they'll get them out as soon as they happen. The White Scar models don't indicate anything other than upgrade kits are being worked on.
Anybody who is there be able to get an accurate sizing on the warlord? Looks to be more than two FW knights tall? That would put it significantly taller than the reaver. Not pleased that the warlord is 1150 but I need to see it in the flesh tomorrow.
He's mentioned a desire to do more Conquest books, as the ability to 'pan out' to the wider conflict instead of specific battles would be good.
Slightly worried about that. I've said before I really hope they do not go down the BL route and do a whole bunch of side campgains without moving the overall story on.
Sure its good to flesh out some of the other battles that occured but not at the expense of making the series into a 30 book juggarnaut =/
Every legion gets an army wide buff in games of Horus heresy. Iron hands for example get effectively pls 1 toughness, imperial fists an extra bs with bolt weapons.
So, what does an Ultramarines army get? Not sure if I was being clear about what I was referring to before.
Ultramarine Fulmentarus Terminator Strike squad - Cataphractii armour, combo bolter, power maul and Pertiarch Targetter (additional rules depending on how many squad members are in the unit, ranging from Night Vision to Tank Hunters through to -1 cover save). All members can swap the combi bolter for a combi weapon, Reaper Autocannon or a Cyclone launcher - all must have same option
Spoke to Alan Bligh, book 6 may not be second part of the Ultramar campaign - the order has gone fluid again. He's mentioned a desire to do more Conquest books, as the ability to 'pan out' to the wider conflict instead of specific battles would be good. No firm clue what the next book is, could be anything at this point.
Translation: We're going #FullBlackLibrary, and will now be padding out the HH with filler books until the end of time. Looking forward to Prospero? See you in 2020! Siege of Terra? Part one should be out before the Sun grows dim. Not sure about parts 2 through 300 in that series though. Probably after our star has collapsed into a Black Hole. Make sure to pick up the Store Exclusive book with the Blood Angel Legion rules in it. Available only for 18 seconds in the London store on the 29th of Feb 2016. The Blood Angel rules won't ever be in print again after that, so better get there soon - only 3 copies will ever be printed!
Spoke to Alan Bligh, book 6 may not be second part of the Ultramar campaign - the order has gone fluid again. He's mentioned a desire to do more Conquest books, as the ability to 'pan out' to the wider conflict instead of specific battles would be good. No firm clue what the next book is, could be anything at this point.
Translation: We're going #FullBlackLibrary, and will now be padding out the HH with filler books until the end of time. Looking forward to Prospero? See you in 2020! Siege of Terra? Part one should be out before the Sun grows dim. Not sure about parts 2 through 300 in that series though. Probably after our star has collapsed into a Black Hole. Make sure to pick up the Store Exclusive book with the Blood Angel Legion rules in it. Available only for 18 seconds in the London store on the 29th of Feb 2016. The Blood Angel rules won't ever be in print again after that, so better get there soon - only 3 copies will ever be printed!
Well. Heresy was FW piggybacking BL's success with that line from the start. They can't really overtake them in the story and they sure as hell stopped doing anything creative and original that isn't copy-&-paste (the increasingly dull) Black Library stuff with added game-stats ~2012.
Spoke to Alan Bligh, book 6 may not be second part of the Ultramar campaign - the order has gone fluid again. He's mentioned a desire to do more Conquest books, as the ability to 'pan out' to the wider conflict instead of specific battles would be good. No firm clue what the next book is, could be anything at this point.
Translation: We're going #FullBlackLibrary, and will now be padding out the HH with filler books until the end of time. Looking forward to Prospero? See you in 2020! Siege of Terra? Part one should be out before the Sun grows dim. Not sure about parts 2 through 300 in that series though. Probably after our star has collapsed into a Black Hole. Make sure to pick up the Store Exclusive book with the Blood Angel Legion rules in it. Available only for 18 seconds in the London store on the 29th of Feb 2016. The Blood Angel rules won't ever be in print again after that, so better get there soon - only 3 copies will ever be printed!
Well. Heresy was FW piggybacking BL's success with that line from the start. They can't really overtake them in the story and they sure as hell stopped doing anything creative and original that isn't copy-&-paste (the increasingly dull) Black Library stuff with added game-stats ~2012.
Yeah, Emperor forbid FW leap again of black library and ruin the ending! Who will win the Heresy??
They already explained why Prospero has been delayed.
It is a collossal release. Two very unique marine legions. Spire guard models. Potentially new armies or at the very least kits to represent Custodes and sisters of silence.
Considering GW hasn't been able to make Sisters model in getting on 20 years Iam not fussed by another few with forgeworld.
It will take significantly more work than all the other previous books and it's not surprising that they are taking so long.
Also, seriously. What are the Ultramarines legion rules. It's the first anyone wit that book would look for. So far I've seen one dodgy pic of Ventanos and that's it. Considering this is an ultra focus release that's pretty poor.
Predaking wrote: I am more curious to see if Lorgar and his cronies have any rule changes/ updates or if there are a new version entirely
Since I have a few k of ultramarines Iam way more interested in knowing what their actual legion rules are. Instead of an updated rule set for an already complete legion.
The books been for sale for three hour and nobody has posted this yet.
Personally, I really like the Warlord, and I think the alternate head makes it look a lot less Knight-like too. As for only 2 Moderatii, all the books I've read that go into detail of the Warlord's crew only have 2 Moderatii too (Priests/Lords of Mars, Mechanicus). Granted they are all Graham McNeill books.
Loving Sigismund and Guilliman, I particularly like how Guilliman is sort of the mirror of Horus, as both are the strategic genius for their faction. I also like the very Byzantine angle FW is taking the Ultramarines down, suits them perfectly with Ultramar basically being the Eastern Imperium during this period.
Hoping for more pictures of the Warlord weapons, want to see the plasma weapons. Looks like an Apocalypse missile launcher is visible in that last image.
The Stormbird is awesome! Also, for those dissapointed by it looking like a Thunderhawk, the fluff on the side does state that it is the smallest Stormbird pattern, and basically the direct precursor to the Thunderhawk, so maybe FW will come out with a more radical, earlier pattern of Stormbird in the future.
Hmm, I wonder if there are any WIP's of the new Mechanicus stuff. The Ordinatus WIP looked awesome.
You will probably never play against one much less own one yourself.
Spamming more pics of it and it's rules won't magically give you one of the models.
...ok?
I've been asking for five hours for what te ultramarines rules are. A simple question that takes two seconds to answer and unlike the warlord is more important to your average game of Horus heresy. But people who have the book have simply ignored this question.
I'll just wait until end of May when I buy the book since clearly the net just wants to spite me.
You will probably never play against one much less own one yourself.
Spamming more pics of it and it's rules won't magically give you one of the models.
...ok?
I've been asking for five hours for what te ultramarines rules are. A simple question that takes two seconds to answer and unlike the warlord is more important to your average game of Horus heresy. But people who have the book have simply ignored this question.
I'll just wait until end of May when I buy the book since clearly the net just wants to spite me.
That poor attitude won't get the same question you've been spamming for the last few pages answered. I suggest a little patience instead of having a strop.
You will probably never play against one much less own one yourself.
Spamming more pics of it and it's rules won't magically give you one of the models.
...ok?
I've been asking for five hours for what te ultramarines rules are. A simple question that takes two seconds to answer and unlike the warlord is more important to your average game of Horus heresy. But people who have the book have simply ignored this question.
I'll just wait until end of May when I buy the book since clearly the net just wants to spite me.
Or the guys with the book aren't online or reading the book themselves. Not everyone with the book is on Dakka right now.
I'm looking forward to it too, but I'm confident we'll know by the end of the day.
It's a simple question. If you actually played Horus Heresy then you would understand that the legion army wide rules are THE most important rules in these books. They differentiate what is essentially the same army list and give it a unique flavour.
That and the stats of Gulliman I simply assumed would be posted pretty quickly. But instead people have the book and are refusing to talk about this stuff by instead are posting irrelevant crap about the warlord which you will probably never see on the tabletop.
Spamming? You mean like once every hour as the conversation moves on. That's not spamming that's keeping things in the loop.
Totalwar1402 wrote: It's a simple question. If you actually played Horus Heresy then you would understand that the legion army wide rules are THE most important rules in these books. They differentiate what is essentially the same army list and give it a unique flavour.
That's great, but yelling at people for posting pictures of the titan and accusing them of spamming whilst you yourself are constantly asking for the Ultra rules does seem a little bit silly, IMO.
Totalwar1402 wrote: It's a simple question. If you actually played Horus Heresy then you would understand that the legion army wide rules are THE most important rules in these books. They differentiate what is essentially the same army list and give it a unique flavour.
That and the stats of Gulliman I simply assumed would be posted pretty quickly. But instead people have the book and are refusing to talk about this stuff by instead are posting irrelevant crap about the warlord which you will probably never see on the tabletop.
Spamming? You mean like once every hour as the conversation moves on. That's not spamming that's keeping things in the loop.
Try and keep your big boy pants on dear boy, this isn't you own personal information repository, there's plenty of decent minded folks who I'm sure would happily share if they knew. Ergo, nobody's about online that knows. Patience will likely get you what you want, being pointlessly abrasive because people are talking about things you don't want to talk about probably won't.
Totalwar1402 wrote: It's a simple question. If you actually played Horus Heresy then you would understand that the legion army wide rules are THE most important rules in these books. They differentiate what is essentially the same army list and give it a unique flavour.
That and the stats of Gulliman I simply assumed would be posted pretty quickly. But instead people have the book and are refusing to talk about this stuff by instead are posting irrelevant crap about the warlord which you will probably never see on the tabletop.
Spamming? You mean like once every hour as the conversation moves on. That's not spamming that's keeping things in the loop.
If you wanted to the rules that much, you should of gone and bought the book yourself.
Totalwar1402 wrote: I've been asking for five hours for what te ultramarines rules are. A simple question that takes two seconds to answer and unlike the warlord is more important to your average game of Horus heresy. But people who have the book have simply ignored this question.
Oh no, boohoo :(
Ah wait! Both pages of his rules are already online though, maybe you could have used those five hours to look them up
Mymearan wrote: Guilliman is BRILLIANT. Probably my favorite Primarch so far. Absolutely nails the stoic, regal look.
His base is CRAZY huge though... it could look nice to move him further back and model some marines in front of him, or give him an honor guard or such...
Well I have to say I am both happy and disappointed with the new Chaos Knight upgrades.
I am glad they made them because it means we will get Knights for our faction. I am however not impressed by the oh look split open wounds and random spikes sticking out look.
The new leg set up for the Lord of skulls are pretty sweet.
I think I will mix and match them with the chaos knight sprue and custom make some bits when I build one.
Will be very interested to tryout some of this new FW Airbrush paint, especially with how hard it is becoming to buy paint around my area.
Dropper bottles would have been handy though, always ending up spilling paint trying to get it into my air brush.
Totalwar1402 wrote: I've been asking for five hours for what te ultramarines rules are. A simple question that takes two seconds to answer and unlike the warlord is more important to your average game of Horus heresy. But people who have the book have simply ignored this question.
Oh no, boohoo :(
Ah wait! Both pages of his rules are already online though, maybe you could have used those five hours to look them up
MajorStoffer wrote: What's with the Emperor's Children fighting the Khornate horde? Looks awesome, I just don't understand the context other than "looks cool"
Where? There's UM fighting WB, with a Khorne Bloodthirster, and EC vs IH..? But not EC vs Khorne.
MajorStoffer wrote: What's with the Emperor's Children fighting the Khornate horde? Looks awesome, I just don't understand the context other than "looks cool"
Are the emperors children the ones wearing ultramarine armor?
A nice haul of news this morning. Is that an imperial army list in the table of contents plus a titan legion list plus two legions? (albeit without the core legion rules) That's not bad for content!
Guilleman looks nice... not astounding but definitely nice. I'd love to see a size comparison of him next to a regular marine. To the person who posted that he looks like a third party fig, I disagree. He looks alot better then the 3rd party version offered up on ebay from time to time in Russia.
The warlord frankly looks small. I was expecting bigger. I previously used a haloclix scarab as a warlord counts as for huge FLGSapoc games and that model would dwarf the warlord in size.
The two command Russ tanks have interesting weapon loadouts: the Executioner comes with three plasma cannons and the Vanquisher has three lascannons. Maybe a sly sneakpeek of what's to come further down the road?
The new thanatar has 2 short range plasma launchers that has some decent fluff about a spat between Ryza and another forge world (who created the new thanatar). The launchers are 18" range with heavy 2 small blast but can overheat - note the book is in the boot and that was off the top of my head.
The domitar battle automata are redesigned Conquerer class robots with 2 grav hammers and a missile launcher. Around twice the points of a castellax!
Also about the new Ultramarines units we have the suzerian blingy dudes with shields and the new terminator squad (who can go full autocannons or cyclones with assorted power weapons and fists) we have a new jump unit too who all come stock with artificer armour and power swords also ultramarines breachers can take (or swap their bolters, book is in car lol) power swords for 5 points.
I don't really dislike the Sigismund model, I just don't like it as Sigismund. And the torso area looks a bit weird but might just be the photos we've seen.
The airbrush paints are interesting to me because when I asked them how they painted their Imperial Fists a few weeks ago, they told me they used Tamiya Flat Yellow.
I wonder if in future they'll be using the paints they sell, or just telling people they do. Airbrush paints in flip tops is going to undermine sales for them, however good they are.
Airbrush paints not in dropper bottles is annoying. BUT, is it just me, or are those Coat D'Arms paint bottles they're in?
I am loving the scenic base Guilliman is on. The one picture I've seen so far seems to be suffering from "bad-picture-angle" syndrome, as something about his proportions doesn't look right to me.
Davylove21 wrote: The airbrush paints are interesting to me because when I asked them how they painted their Imperial Fists a few weeks ago, they told me they used Tamiya Flat Yellow.
I wonder if in future they'll be using the paints they sell, or just telling people they do. Airbrush paints in flip tops is going to undermine sales for them, however good they are.
Forge World's replies about painting tend to vary based upon the kit and who painted them.
Plus, they probably didn't want to spill the beans and the Tamiya Flat Yellow might be an exact match or any number of variables.
So for 15 points more, Guilliman is an absolute boss, would hand Dorn his ass in nearly every fight. Buffs his units and just gets better as close combat goes on. Dorn gets a chainsword (really a chainsword) and an expensive taxi.
Reroll 1s to wound and to pen in shooting phase against units that have already been shot at by other Ultranarine Units (so basically all Ultramarine units function as pseudo-marker lights)
Reroll charge distance against a unit that is locked in with another Ultramarine unit.
Take Regroup and Pinning checks at LD10.
If HQs all die then everyone takes a pinning check.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
More from heresy 30k
Ultramarines astartes rule
UM units that shoot at a target that has already been shot at by another UM may re-roll 1's to wound and to penetrate
UM units may re-roll charge ranges if charging a unit already in combat with another UM unit.
UM units take pinning and regrouping tests at base LD10 (still take modifers)
if all UM HQ choices are killed then all UM units must take a pinning test
Ultramarine rite of war
have a selection of abilities to pick from,
-re-roll run distances, snap fire at BS2 if stationary, or counter attack
choose at the begaining of a turn, may be used more than once, but only 1 at a time.
Ultramarine wargear
Legatine axe: power weapon thats AP2 hit at I value and auto-wounds on a 6
mantle of ultramar: artifcer armour that confers +5 FNP and immunity to blind (model only, not unit)
Ultramarine units
ultramarines gain 4 new units
invictus suzerain squads: tooled up combat gents, with boarding shields and power weapons, gives +1LD to nearby friendlies for pinning morale test
fulmentarus terminators: seige tyrants with better targeting bonuses for number of models in units
locutarus storm squad: vanguard vets with less wargear options
damocles command rhino
Ultramarine characters
honoured telemechrus: contemptor basicallys UM version of ryanlor
ventanus, cheap praetor grade charcter, some small scale boosts
Roboute guilliman, lower end of primarch power, but lots of tough bonuses, good weapons
Automatically Appended Next Post: Word bearers
Word Bearers:
mhara gal is in there, along with two new characters and a two man unit (command squad for one of the characters)
daemonic dark apostle good stats, wargear etc, makes ashen circle troops and lets them buy dark challenging, has a two man 'super gal vorbak' bodyguard
mid level character, mid-level powers, can make all WB units WS5 for one turn
I need these so very, very badly... I owned that terminator, so many years ago, I loved that mini so much. A unit of M&M termies would be the best, the very best.
Also some significant changes for Titans
All patterns:
- never blocked in assault
- immune to haywire, dangerous terrain, psychic attacks other than whichfire
Reaver and Warlord:
- can only be hit on 6 during assault by infantry and monstrous creatures and 5-6 by sup-heavy walkers
Warlord only:
- stomp attack with 5'' blast
Also some significant changes for Titans
All patterns:
- never blocked in assault
- immune to haywire, dangerous terrain, psychic attacks other than whichfire
Reaver and Warlord:
- can only be hit on 6 during assault by infantry and monstrous creatures and 5-6 by sup-heavy walkers
Warlord only:
- stomp attack with 5'' blast
So they can just walk out of assault if they want to?
Also some significant changes for Titans
All patterns:
- never blocked in assault
- immune to haywire, dangerous terrain, psychic attacks other than whichfire
Reaver and Warlord:
- can only be hit on 6 during assault by infantry and monstrous creatures and 5-6 by sup-heavy walkers
Warlord only:
- stomp attack with 5'' blast
So they can just walk out of assault if they want to?
just like back in 4th and 5th. Only thing I don't like here is the only getting hit on 6s. Yeah the model model is 'uge but it's not challenging to hit the broad side of the barn, just frustrating when the barn is reinforced steel. Though I guess it could be argued as extra ankle height defensive plating or anti personell measures (I'm imagining imagining the fallen zaku vs guerillas from 08th team scene)
The never locked thing makes sense, given that their foot is bigger than the units locking them 90% of the time if it wants to leave the combat nothing is going to stop it. The anti-haywire and psychic thing would make my warhound more survivable.
I need these so very, very badly... I owned that terminator, so many years ago, I loved that mini so much. A unit of M&M termies would be the best, the very best.
From the table of contents it doesn't look like our 30k knights will be getting the new options.
=C
I'm still disapointed no one has taken the time to look at/comment on the new milita list yet. This has been one of my biggest wish-lists for 30k gameing for some time.
Also some significant changes for Titans
All patterns:
- never blocked in assault
- immune to haywire, dangerous terrain, psychic attacks other than whichfire
Reaver and Warlord:
- can only be hit on 6 during assault by infantry and monstrous creatures and 5-6 by sup-heavy walkers
Warlord only:
- stomp attack with 5'' blast
Only hit on a 6 by MCs? Sure some MCs are a bit "weedy" (since there is such a wide range of them) but are they seriously thinking a Tryannofex, Swarmlord or DK cant scratch a Reaver? Hmmm, dont agree with that at all.
Immune to haywire completely? At least make it a 6 to glance.
And never blocked should only be VS X or less models. Full Greentide cant lock down a Reaver? Warlord maybe but.....
You do realise that a carnifex barely clears the ankle of the Warlord right? wading through a couple of hundred of them for the warlord would be like a Contemptor wading through a sea of snotlings.
Ratius wrote: A mini isnt going to mow down 50 of me though, basic momentum VS immovable kicks in
But 50 of you =\= a massive lorry in a variety of ways. I'd still bet, moving sufficiently quickly, one small car could make a mess of a group of 50 people, even if it couldn't kill them all outright.
And Nid MCs are meant to be the pinnacle of killing evolution, they should have a half decent chance VS Titans.....
They're the pinnacles of evolution for killing a specific target. If Carnifexes could kill Titans then we wouldn't have Tyranid Titans.
Also some significant changes for Titans
All patterns:
- never blocked in assault
- immune to haywire, dangerous terrain, psychic attacks other than whichfire
Reaver and Warlord:
- can only be hit on 6 during assault by infantry and monstrous creatures and 5-6 by sup-heavy walkers
Warlord only:
- stomp attack with 5'' blast
These all sound pretty fitting and better fitting from a realism perspective. Not necessarily sure about balance, though if we're talking balance and Titans that's probably already out the window.
Only hit on a 6 by MCs? Sure some MCs are a bit "weedy" (since there is such a wide range of them) but are they seriously thinking a Tryannofex, Swarmlord or DK cant scratch a Reaver? Hmmm, dont agree with that at all.
I don't think it's so much a strength issue, but they really aren't tall enough to do anything but whack at the ankles, *maybe* the knees with some impressive jumping skills. Trying to hit anything relevant rather than slamming away at the thick armor plating or trying to tear toes off would be the real issue.
And never blocked should only be VS X or less models. Full Greentide cant lock down a Reaver? Warlord maybe but.....
Eh, there might be a lot of them, but they're still only ankle high at best
I mean, even with a small Warhound, infantry aren't going to be big enough, no matter how many, to really lock down a Titan's movement, they'd just end up being squished.
FW has a great pic here with the Warhound and some Chaos Space Marines, and they just aren't big enough to prevent the Warhound moving no matter how many there are.
Tannhauser42 wrote: Airbrush paints not in dropper bottles is annoying. BUT, is it just me, or are those Coat D'Arms paint bottles they're in?
I am loving the scenic base Guilliman is on. The one picture I've seen so far seems to be suffering from "bad-picture-angle" syndrome, as something about his proportions doesn't look right to me.
Yeah, I suspect that the model will look much better in person. A 2D pic of a 2D pic held at an angle will distort.
I'm interested to learn more about the airbrush paints.
Considering the enormous expense of the Warlord I'm surprised FW hasn't split it up to make it easier to afford. I could barely afford my Reaver even when it was divided into body + weapons, doubt that many people are going to be able to splash out for one unless they split it into something like legs + body left + body right + arms + carapace weapons or something along those lines.
Ashiraya wrote: I wonder what rules the Titan's main guns will have. We already have D on infantry guns, so what's this? Strength E?
Strength $. When you fire a weapon with strength $ you may destroy (by shredding, burning, etc) any number of $20 bills (or the equivalent in your country's currency). The strength $ automatically inflicts that many wounds or penetrating hits on the target unit, with no saves or defensive abilities of any kind allowed. Which is really kind of terrifying given the budget of the people who are going to buy a Warlord...
I need these so very, very badly... I owned that terminator, so many years ago, I loved that mini so much. A unit of M&M termies would be the best, the very best.
They better make minis of this. I made my own some time ago but that just rocks.
any legion can take one as a non-complusory HQ choice in games of over 1k. Ultramarines may also take a second one as a dedicated transport for a master of signals damocles has its own orbital bombardment, which is TL, and has lance it also gives a 24" bubble in which friendly units don't scatter when deep striking, also confers you the choice to +1 or -1 from your reserve rolls, enemy models suffer a -1 on the deep strike mishap table if the damocles is anywhere on the board.
regarding the Militia List and some fluff questions:
the legio suturvora are listed as WB allied titan legion and have no linked Knight houses, their scheme is gold trim, black panels with orange flames on all panels (like a reverse tiger eyes but dark orange instead of yellow) no new rite of war for WB thunderbolt and heavy ordnance artillery are in, as are rapiers regular malcador is in (valdor and infernus out), leman russes are all in Heavy support but loss the volkite and plasma turrets, can take heavy bolters or heavy flamer sponsons
via Penddraig, regarding the Cult Army List:
I asked AB about this and he said it was certainly a possibility as this list is there to represent the "typical" Imperial Army forces as opposed to the more elite Solar Auxilia. By using this list, you are able to create everything from black powder musket wielding hordes of 50 man units, more heavily armoured units of 20 with the lasgun that we are used to from 40k through to hordes of mutants. You can even create abhuman units with detonator collars. The list shows that at this stage of the Imperiums history, the Imperial Army is still formed from indentured units from Compliant worlds - they haven't been formed into the autonomous Imperial Guard with unified equipment, arms and vehicles. At this stage, the IA is formed from whatever the Imperium has available as they are not the "cutting edge" of the Great Crusade: that is the remit of the Astartes and the Solar Auxilia.
It was also mentioned that this is a modelllers dream as it provides you with a "toolkit" to create whatever style of Imperial Army force you want. You could run beastmen models with rifles, old Necromunda gangers, Cadian Shocktroops, Catachan jungle fighters, the FW range of Chaos cultists - pretty much whatever you want. Even Fantasy Imperial troops may be used as black powder weapons are part of the list.
Weapons range from (as mentioned above), black powder through to lasguns, autoguns etc. All the low-tech equipment that is clearly inferior to the Astartes and the SA but then, throw enough mud at something and some of it will stick. The IA list will kill just through sheer rate of dice being thrown at the opposing force. Sure, you won't have much left by the time Astartes have finished with you but for each Astartes, you probably have 3-5 Milita.
Aye, Ordinatus Mars (aka massive sonic disruptor cannon)
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Deets from Garro on the Militia variability:
by taking a force commander, you can purchase 0-2 'provenances' each acting like a rite of war, pretty much all non-vehicle models in the list are affected. the provenances cost between 35-100pts.
warrior elite
- +1LD,
- militia levy (:cuss conscripts) become support squads
gene-crafted
- +1 str and +1 initiative
- can not get FNP saves
cyber-augmetics
- 6+ invuln save, or +1 to existing
- reduce run, sweeping advances by 1
- can't be combined with gene-crafted
alchem-jackers
- stubborn during assault phase
- if fails a LD test due to enemy shooting, becomes pinned instand of falling back
- any unit can purchase 'rage' for a fee
survivors of the dark age
- +1 to armour save
- compulsory troops must be grenadier squads
- milita levy squads gain 'support squad' rule
- can't be combined with cult horde or tainted flesh provenances
- units can purchase +1str to their las weapon,
- grenadier squads and command squads can purchase rhinos and LR proteus as dedicated transports (long live rogue trader)
feral warriors
- +1WS, orgyrn gain +1 attack instead
- can not have more vehicle units than infantry
- all non-orgyrn squads can purchase +1 attack for a fee
abhuman helots
- all units gain +1 toughness but have -1 initiative
- can purchase 'discipline collars' for a fee
cult horde (traitor only)
- all units gain zealot
- must always charge if in range
- can only make snap shots and can not go to ground
- can't take grenadier squads
- can't be combined with survivors of the dark ages
tainted flesh (traitors only)
- all units gain fear, feel no pain (6+) and rending in CC - complusory troops must be levy squads
- can not have more 'non-levy' squads than levy squads
- can only take force commander and rogue psykers as HQs - gains access to mutant spawns
- can't be combined with surviors of the dark ages, gene-crafted or alchem-jacker
- +1 to armour save
- compulsory troops must be grenadier squads
- milita levy squads gain 'support squad' rule
- can't be combined with cult horde or tainted flesh provenances
- units can purchase +1str to their las weapon,
- grenadier squads and command squads can purchase rhinos and LR proteus as dedicated transports (long live rogue trader)
Doesn't that kind of entirely take out the few things that can stand a chance at doing some meaningful damage to it?
Not being able to leave combat. That makes sense. What I mean is: They already gave it 30 hull points. It can take a few rounds of haywire or Armourbane combat to the ankle before it has to panic.
Seems kinda sucky for whoever paid for it. Display model first and foremost, sure, but not much point whipping it out against an army of equal points tailored to try to take it down if there's effectively no such thing as an army of equal points tailored to try to take it down.
changemod wrote: Doesn't that kind of entirely take out the few things that can stand a chance at doing some meaningful damage to it?
Yes, and that's the whole point. You're not supposed to be able to kill it easily without superheavies (preferably titans) of your own.
but not much point whipping it out against an army of equal points tailored to try to take it down if there's effectively no such thing as an army of equal points tailored to try to take it down.
It costs almost 3000 points. It will never be seen outside of Apocalypse, where there are plenty of D-weapons to deal with it.
So here is something for people to chew on. You can take Ab-Humans and Survivors of the Dark Age together as your two "provenances" would bassicly represent a Squat Army?
changemod wrote: Doesn't that kind of entirely take out the few things that can stand a chance at doing some meaningful damage to it?
Yes, and that's the whole point. You're not supposed to be able to kill it easily without superheavies (preferably titans) of your own.
You already couldn't, was the point of my disbelief. This has taken it from "if you cater your entire list to it, you have a slim chance" to "If you cater your entire list to it, it will laugh at you".
but not much point whipping it out against an army of equal points tailored to try to take it down if there's effectively no such thing as an army of equal points tailored to try to take it down.
It costs almost 3000 points. It will never be seen outside of Apocalypse, where there are plenty of D-weapons to deal with it.
Void shields mean only close combat D would stand a serious chance, and it's now basically invisible in assault. The only counter is another Warlord or completely outpointing it with smaller Superheavies, in which case the match goes to the side that goes first.
It's a fancy display piece, but you'd want to whip it out once or twice for the heck of it if you had it... And how is that fun if you don't have any risk?
changemod wrote: This has taken it from "if you cater your entire list to it, you have a slim chance" to "If you cater your entire list to it, it will laugh at you".
No it hasn't, because "cater your entire list to it" means spamming tons of D-weapons. Four D-weapon Warhounds (approximately equal price) will, on average, kill it in one round of shooting.
Void shields mean only close combat D would stand a serious chance
Only if you're wasting D-weapon shots on void shields. Take some Manticores and remove the void shields before you start shooting D-weapons at it.
changemod wrote: This has taken it from "if you cater your entire list to it, you have a slim chance" to "If you cater your entire list to it, it will laugh at you".
No it hasn't, because "cater your entire list to it" means spamming tons of D-weapons. Four D-weapon Warhounds (approximately equal price) will, on average, kill it in one round of shooting.
Void shields mean only close combat D would stand a serious chance
Only if you're wasting D-weapon shots on void shields. Take some Manticores and remove the void shields before you start shooting D-weapons at it.
The only issue with it is if your playing HH and "that guy" wants to play the single titan useing the leviathan FOC. Because then it's a normal 3000 point army vs. the single War Lord.
Witch of course the answer is "don't play that guy" since it's not like their is 30k tournaments were you might be forced to play ageist it just because it's "legal". It's the reason in general i don't like alot of these huge epic units coming into 30/40k rules. The power balance just goes out of whack.
Lockark wrote: The only issue with it is if your playing HH and "that guy" wants to play the single titan useing the leviathan FOC.
Which specifically requires permission from your opponent to do, beyond the normal agreement between players required for any non-tournament game. FW even mentions the example of "a company of space marines vs. a titan", but presents it as a "let's screw around one day and try this" special event, not something you should consider your primary army. So it TFG wants to bring their Warlord every game all you have to do is say "no thanks" when they ask for permission to use the leviathan FOC.
And of course you have to play a game with a high enough point limit for the Warlord to fit at all. Stick to 2500 point games and the Warlord is not an issue.
I'm seriously pumped for that Chaos knight. I like the look, and I'm glad I don't have to do all the converting on my own like I was tempted to do. I cringe to think about what the price will be though.
Don't agree with the rules for it being immune to haywire, or being hard to hit for monstrous and gargantuan creatures, particularly gargantuan creatures. The background repeatedly states how for example Tyranids tear apart Titans either through numbers or through their specialized creatures specifically designed for tearing apart vehicles and fortifications.
Most haywire weapons would at best be knocking off a mere 1 HP at best, so it would still take numerous hits to accomplish anything.
Plus I find the idea of a character doing like Luke Skywalker in the Empire Strikes Back and landing a hit against a preoccupied Warlord appealing. I don't find the height of the Warlord much of a rationale considering we have people with jet packs, or superhuman agility. I could totally see a Solitaire parkouring up the leg of a Warlord to plant a haywire against a vulnerable piece of machinery for example.
The big problem I find is a Warlord (or any other superheavy or Titan) shouldn't be just an immovable and invulnerable block of HP all the way down to the last HP before suddenly blasting apart in a giant fireball. In the old Epic 2nd edition, Warlords were powerful but if someone tried to act like they were invincible and just marched them in front of massed enemy heavy weapons, the massed fire would ablate their shields and destroy them.
Lockark wrote: The only issue with it is if your playing HH and "that guy" wants to play the single titan useing the leviathan FOC.
Which specifically requires permission from your opponent to do, beyond the normal agreement between players required for any non-tournament game. FW even mentions the example of "a company of space marines vs. a titan", but presents it as a "let's screw around one day and try this" special event, not something you should consider your primary army. So it TFG wants to bring their Warlord every game all you have to do is say "no thanks" when they ask for permission to use the leviathan FOC.
And of course you have to play a game with a high enough point limit for the Warlord to fit at all. Stick to 2500 point games and the Warlord is not an issue.
Witch of course the answer is "don't play that guy" since it's not like their is 30k tournaments were you might be forced to play ageist it just because it's "legal".
Part of the issue is that Superheavies ignore the vehicle damage table entirely, when really if anything they should be more prone to losing specific subsystems with minimal loss to the totality than a smaller vehicle.
Something with an entire 30 hull points should be racking up penalties like crazy by the time it has one hull point left, not stamping happily around one Melta's difference between mildly scuffed paintwork and catastrophic detonation.
Lockark wrote: Witch of course the answer is "don't play that guy" since it's not like their is 30k tournaments were you might be forced to play ageist it just because it's "legal".
Are 30k tournaments often over 2500pts? That seems really high!
changemod wrote: Something with an entire 30 hull points should be racking up penalties like crazy by the time it has one hull point left, not stamping happily around one Melta's difference between mildly scuffed paintwork and catastrophic detonation.
It should fluff-wise, but in the only games where you'll be able to use a Warlord the bookkeeping of all of those damage results isn't worth it. There's a reason why the Apocalypse book even suggests ignoring the damage table for regular vehicles.
changemod wrote: Part of the issue is that Superheavies ignore the vehicle damage table entirely, when really if anything they should be more prone to losing specific subsystems with minimal loss to the totality than a smaller vehicle.
Something with an entire 30 hull points should be racking up penalties like crazy by the time it has one hull point left, not stamping happily around one Melta's difference between mildly scuffed paintwork and catastrophic detonation.
That's exactly the same point I stated in my post. In the old Epic, there were damage tables for different body parts, so it was possible to disable weapons, immobilize the Titan and so on. Right now, the rules are ironically reversed with small vehicles having more bookkeeping involved, while superheavy vehicles and Titans are just one big blank block of HP. In most game systems, it is the larger showpiece models that have the most bookkeeping and details.
The lack of detail also means there is little to differentiate D weapons beyond range, number of shots, and blast size. This leads to the strange situation where a turbo-laser is more destructive and dangerous than a Warlord's arm mounted Volcano Cannon or Quake Cannon, despite the background showing these to be the primary weapons while the turbo-lasers are meant to be the secondaries. Again in the old 2nd edition Epic, there were weapons that had many shots while others had fewer shots but had bonuses to the damage table. So the Volcano Cannon might have had only one shot but it would likely destroy whatever hit location it did hit.
Lockark wrote: Witch of course the answer is "don't play that guy" since it's not like their is 30k tournaments were you might be forced to play ageist it just because it's "legal".
But you can play them, you just don't give them special permission to use the leviathan FOC instead of a normal detachment. The leviathan FOC is like that bit in the 7th edition rulebook about point limits being optional, technically it exists but you have no obligation to pay any attention to it unless you want to play a specific scenario where it is appropriate.
Also, even in a 30k tournament the leviathan FOC wouldn't be legal unless the TO specifically added that option to the tournament rules. The default in 30k games is "no leviathan FOC allowed", if you show up to a "standard 30k" tournament with an army that uses it you're not going to be allowed to play.
Iracundus wrote: Right now, the rules are ironically reversed with small vehicles having more bookkeeping involved, while superheavy vehicles and Titans are just one big blank block of HP.
Not in Apocalypse, which is the only place you'll ever see a Warlord titan. The strongly suggested house rule is that you ignore the damage table for everything, not just superheavies, and only track HP.
Lockark wrote: Witch of course the answer is "don't play that guy" since it's not like their is 30k tournaments were you might be forced to play ageist it just because it's "legal".
Are 30k tournaments often over 2500pts? That seems really high!
I think his point was that 30K is even less about tournament play than 40K is these days. But regarding points, 2500 pts in 30K is probably closer to 2000 pts in 40K in terms of the amount of stuff on the table.
Iracundus wrote: Right now, the rules are ironically reversed with small vehicles having more bookkeeping involved, while superheavy vehicles and Titans are just one big blank block of HP.
Not in Apocalypse, which is the only place you'll ever see a Warlord titan. The strongly suggested house rule is that you ignore the damage table for everything, not just superheavies, and only track HP.
To be fair, that's largely a suggestion for simple record keeping's sake, and not a hard rule. Iracundus makes a solid point in that Superheavies in general, Warlord or not, tend to very awkwardly be less detailed than their smaller and more numerous (and ideally more abstracted) "normal" vehicle kindred.
That said, I'm ok with vehicles getting some love, MC's & GC's certainly don't have to worry about performance degradation with hits, losing weapons, becoming immobilized, etc. I don't really have a problem with the Warlord in and of itself (I think it could be more points, but in games where it's being used this is likely a secondary concern due to the nature of Apocalypse style gaming).
Iracundus wrote: Right now, the rules are ironically reversed with small vehicles having more bookkeeping involved, while superheavy vehicles and Titans are just one big blank block of HP.
Not in Apocalypse, which is the only place you'll ever see a Warlord titan. The strongly suggested house rule is that you ignore the damage table for everything, not just superheavies, and only track HP.
To be fair, that's largely a suggestion for simple record keeping's sake, and not a hard rule. Iracundus makes a solid point in that Superheavies in general, Warlord or not, tend to very awkwardly be less detailed than their smaller and more numerous (and ideally more abstracted) "normal" vehicle kindred.
That said, I'm ok with vehicles getting some love, MC's & GC's certainly don't have to worry about performance degradation with hits, losing weapons, becoming immobilized, etc. I don't really have a problem with the Warlord in and of itself (I think it could be more points, but in games where it's being used this is likely a secondary concern due to the nature of Apocalypse style gaming).
Part of the challenge though in the old Titan games was whether for example it was worthwhile to retreat a Titan or hide it behind buildings to recover shields and repair disabled weapons. Granted these days with the Apocalypse style, it almost always is just worth spamming whatever weapons you can and wiping out as much of the opposing table before you go down in a fireball, but I find that kind of removes what little decision making remains with these Titans and superheavies.
I still also stand by my assertion that Titans should remain vulnerable to infantry that successfully close the distance to keep them on their toes. The Warlords sort of have a remnant of this rule where they cannot fire at enemies that are too close to it, but all the special invulnerabilities or fixed to-hit penalties they have built in now make it hardly a risk. If enemy anti-armor or close combat specialists or characters make it into point-blank or assault range, I think Titans should risk taking damage and not blithely ignore them. That is again why I feel the haywire immunity is a bit much considering Warlords already have such an ablative bank of HP.
I find for example I like the visual idea of a Solitaire parkouring up amidst all the pistons and gears of a Warlord, then planting a haywire grenade and somersaulting off, leaving behind a cascade of sparking crackling lightning and shorting circuits causing the Warlord's hip rotation to seize up.
It is still a bit vulnerable to Melta weaponry up close. They will still have an impact, albeit less so than before. Also, it isn't immune to Close Combat, just much more resistant than before. So it can still be killed by massed Carnifexes, they will just require more turns and attacks to kill it, because it will take them awhile to chew through it's leg plating. Haywire is the iffy bit though, it may be better for it to be Glances on a 6+, instead of outright Immunity, but then I can see this thing being electromagnetically shielded, and it does have damn thick armour.
For the SH damage thing, I am in the camp that ignoring damage results for normal vehicles, but bookkeeping for the badass centre pieces; would make for a more cinematic and awesome game. Having a cool Titan duel whilst lesser troops die in their droves in the cross fire would be awesome I think. Personally I think that MC and GC should get damage results too, to represent their arms or legs being blown off.
Haighus wrote: It is still a bit vulnerable to Melta weaponry up close. They will still have an impact, albeit less so than before. Also, it isn't immune to Close Combat, just much more resistant than before. So it can still be killed by massed Carnifexes, they will just require more turns and attacks to kill it, because it will take them awhile to chew through it's leg plating.
Haywire is the iffy bit though, it may be better for it to be Glances on a 6+, instead of outright Immunity, but then I can see this thing being electromagnetically shielded, and it does have damn thick armour.
The whole point of the Haywire rule is that it it is strong enough to bypass armor to attack the systems. One could make the argument for Knights, Necrons, or any other piece of war machinery in the 40K era being shielded, yet they are all affected by Haywire attacks.
If a lascannon penetrating through knocks off just 1 HP, one could say it is just hitting redundant hardened systems and thick armor, yet the Warlord isn't completely immune to lasers. There can only be a finite number of redundancies so knocking enough of them out should wear down the Warlord eventually, through HP loss. The same reasoning can be applied to Haywire attacks. Meltas, special CC attacks (and I include Haywire into these) all serve to keep the Titans and superheavies from being totally oblivious to the existence of small infantry. If they ignore them in favor of firing away at enemy superheavies, then they should suffer if they let those infantry in too close.
For the SH damage thing, I am in the camp that ignoring damage results for normal vehicles, but bookkeeping for the badass centre pieces; would make for a more cinematic and awesome game. Having a cool Titan duel whilst lesser troops die in their droves in the cross fire would be awesome I think. Personally I think that MC and GC should get damage results too, to represent their arms or legs being blown off.
For Tyranid Bio-Titans I think they should have the same potential of having weapons or legs disabled, just like they did in the old 2nd edition Epic. The whole differentiation between a Tyranid Bio-Titan and Warlord Titan with one using Gargantuan rules and the other vehicle rules is a purely artificial one anyway.
Lockark wrote: Witch of course the answer is "don't play that guy" since it's not like their is 30k tournaments were you might be forced to play ageist it just because it's "legal".
But you can play them, you just don't give them special permission to use the leviathan FOC instead of a normal detachment. The leviathan FOC is like that bit in the 7th edition rulebook about point limits being optional, technically it exists but you have no obligation to pay any attention to it unless you want to play a specific scenario where it is appropriate.
Also, even in a 30k tournament the leviathan FOC wouldn't be legal unless the TO specifically added that option to the tournament rules. The default in 30k games is "no leviathan FOC allowed", if you show up to a "standard 30k" tournament with an army that uses it you're not going to be allowed to play.
you realize I'm bassicly agreeing with you right? It's a unit intended for narrative gaming. Not something you slap down for pick up games.
Lockark wrote: you realize I'm bassicly agreeing with you right? It's a unit intended for narrative gaming. Not something you slap down for pick up games.
Ok, I'm just trying to make it clear that the leviathan FOC isn't something to be scared of. A lot of people have the misconception that it's a standard part of 30k instead of an optional "with permission only" thing for special games, and therefore 30k needs to be kept separate from everything else. And your original post about TFG abusing the leviathan FOC to bring a Warlord in a normal game reinforces that misconception.
Lockark wrote: you realize I'm bassicly agreeing with you right? It's a unit intended for narrative gaming. Not something you slap down for pick up games.
Ok, I'm just trying to make it clear that the leviathan FOC isn't something to be scared of. A lot of people have the misconception that it's a standard part of 30k instead of an optional "with permission only" thing for special games, and therefore 30k needs to be kept separate from everything else. And your original post about TFG abusing the leviathan FOC to bring a Warlord in a normal game reinforces that misconception.
Your not wrong, but the wording is more ambiguous then you give it credit for.
The idea that it's "with permission only" how most people read it. But realy I think what their trying to say is that as a gaming club, group, or tournment the players as a whole or the organizer is to decide if it
is being allowed or not.
Lockark wrote: Your not wrong, but the wording is more ambiguous then you give it credit for.
The idea that it's "with permission only" how most people read it. But realy I think what their trying to say is that as a gaming club, group, or tournment the players as a whole or the organizer is to decide if it
is being allowed or not.
It actually says that both sides need to agree on the use of the special FOC options, which pretty clearly means that it's talking about pre-game agreements (since there's no "side" before a game is arranged). And then the designer's note says "these are story-based 'fun' FOCs and probably aren't balanced, treat them appropriately", which is another statement against their use in "normal" games. You're obviously free to, as a group, agree that they'll always be available if everyone likes those options and wants them to be available, but your opponent can't just say "surprise, I have a Warlord, it's completely legal".
And, again, I'll point out that the 7th edition rulebook says similar things about using point limits to build armies. If people aren't terrified of no-point-limits armies in 40k then they shouldn't be terrified of leviathan FOCs in 30k.
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SirDonlad wrote: I don't suppose there are any details on the thanatar profiles?
I have particlar intrest in the 'sollex pattern lascannon' and these new units!
Lockark wrote: Your not wrong, but the wording is more ambiguous then you give it credit for.
The idea that it's "with permission only" how most people read it. But realy I think what their trying to say is that as a gaming club, group, or tournment the players as a whole or the organizer is to decide if it
is being allowed or not.
It actually says that both sides need to agree on the use of the special FOC options, which pretty clearly means that it's talking about pre-game agreements (since there's no "side" before a game is arranged). And then the designer's note says "these are story-based 'fun' FOCs and probably aren't balanced, treat them appropriately", which is another statement against their use in "normal" games. You're obviously free to, as a group, agree that they'll always be available if everyone likes those options and wants them to be available, but your opponent can't just say "surprise, I have a Warlord, it's completely legal".
And, again, I'll point out that the 7th edition rulebook says similar things about using point limits to build armies. If people aren't terrified of no-point-limits armies in 40k then they shouldn't be terrified of leviathan FOCs in 30k.
What paragraph dose it say that both sides need to agree? Because I don't see it when I read threw page 9 of "Legion Astartes: Crusade Army List". The only thing that alluded to it is the Designer's Notes, and it dose not actually say that both sides need to agree. Just that the alt org charts may not be correctly balanced and to keep this in mind if you use them.
It never comes out and states what you are saying that it states.
That part of the rules is written more for Gaming Clubs then the average pick up game, implying that as a group or club you decide if your using them, instead of individuals debating if they can use them before a game. It's safe to assume in a pick-up game you wouldn't use them. So it's a slight difference in the grand scheme of things, but making a blanket statement that no one uses them is incorrect.
My orginal comment implies that if their is a guy in your 30k gaming group who is insisting on you playing ageist him with his single warlord, maby you just shouldn't play ageist him. (Or even dare I say. Just as a group decide your not allowing the alt FoC's anymore!)
Lockark wrote: What paragraph dose it say that both sides need to agree?
Page 164 of book 2, under "battles in the age of darkness alternative force organization charts" (the section directly above the designer's note):
The use of these alternative Force Organization Charts is strictly optional when not included as part of a particular mission and should always be agreed upon by both sides before their use.
Because I don't see it when I read threw page 9 of "Legion Astartes: Crusade Army List".
I wonder if this is something that was changed from the original book then.
Lockark wrote: What paragraph dose it say that both sides need to agree?
Page 164 of book 2, under "battles in the age of darkness alternative force organization charts" (the section directly above the designer's note):
The use of these alternative Force Organization Charts is strictly optional when not included as part of a particular mission and should always be agreed upon by both sides before their use.
I have located the paragraph you were referring to, and see the part I missed. You are correct.
Page 164 of book 2, under "battles in the age of darkness alternative force organization charts" (the section directly above the designer's note):
Because I don't see it when I read threw page 9 of "Legion Astartes: Crusade Army List".
I wonder if this is something that was changed from the original book then.
Some of the pricing on units, and options were changed between book1&2 and "Legion Astartes: Crusade Army List", plus the Erratas for said books being added to the complied book. So it's the most up to date rules for the army list, and considered to take president over the original trilogy rules wise. For example in said book Tactical Support Squads have access to both Volkite Chargers and Calivers.
(In case you can't access the pdf for some reason the sollex pattern lascannon is a lascannon with STR 10 and 60" range. IOW, pretty disappointing.)
Yeah, i sent them an e-mail about how weak it was and they said they would mention it to the rules-people (or something to that effect) so i was asking more as a confirmation of what it ended up as, but thanks anyway.
Haighus wrote: It is still a bit vulnerable to Melta weaponry up close. They will still have an impact, albeit less so than before. Also, it isn't immune to Close Combat, just much more resistant than before. So it can still be killed by massed Carnifexes, they will just require more turns and attacks to kill it, because it will take them awhile to chew through it's leg plating.
Haywire is the iffy bit though, it may be better for it to be Glances on a 6+, instead of outright Immunity, but then I can see this thing being electromagnetically shielded, and it does have damn thick armour.
The whole point of the Haywire rule is that it it is strong enough to bypass armor to attack the systems. One could make the argument for Knights, Necrons, or any other piece of war machinery in the 40K era being shielded, yet they are all affected by Haywire attacks.
If a lascannon penetrating through knocks off just 1 HP, one could say it is just hitting redundant hardened systems and thick armor, yet the Warlord isn't completely immune to lasers. There can only be a finite number of redundancies so knocking enough of them out should wear down the Warlord eventually, through HP loss. The same reasoning can be applied to Haywire attacks. Meltas, special CC attacks (and I include Haywire into these) all serve to keep the Titans and superheavies from being totally oblivious to the existence of small infantry. If they ignore them in favor of firing away at enemy superheavies, then they should suffer if they let those infantry in too close.
For the SH damage thing, I am in the camp that ignoring damage results for normal vehicles, but bookkeeping for the badass centre pieces; would make for a more cinematic and awesome game. Having a cool Titan duel whilst lesser troops die in their droves in the cross fire would be awesome I think. Personally I think that MC and GC should get damage results too, to represent their arms or legs being blown off.
For Tyranid Bio-Titans I think they should have the same potential of having weapons or legs disabled, just like they did in the old 2nd edition Epic. The whole differentiation between a Tyranid Bio-Titan and Warlord Titan with one using Gargantuan rules and the other vehicle rules is a purely artificial one anyway.
to cover the first part, 40k era tech has gone backwards from 30 the shielding etc would have been better back then than it is "now"
Loving the artwork for the MK0 terminator armour, I must have the model version of it!
Bit disappointed with the Ordinatus, I never really liked the track design for the mechanicus and the model itself is just too small though I seem to remember talk of a larger one in the works?
I know how telling it is about how mundane my interests can be, but I am a bit sad no good shots of the maglev train from one of the new dioramas have turned up.
I need these so very, very badly... I owned that terminator, so many years ago, I loved that mini so much. A unit of M&M termies would be the best, the very best.
Someone on B&C said that those paints I posted the pic of earlier are actually brush paints and they're still working on the airbrush ones, so the non dropper bottles aren't as big an issue if that's true.
Commander Cain wrote: Loving the artwork for the MK0 terminator armour, I must have the model version of it!
Bit disappointed with the Ordinatus, I never really liked the track design for the mechanicus and the model itself is just too small though I seem to remember talk of a larger one in the works?
Those in Epic are enormous, they'd be huge on the battlefield.
I believe it has been mentioned before that this is a smaller example of Ordinatus that is in service in the Imperium or something of the like.
Also It was too impractical of make a proper scale model of Ordinatus due to their massive size, similar to a full fledged Stormbird, as why Forge World have made smaller alternatives more suited to game play.
I need these so very, very badly... I owned that terminator, so many years ago, I loved that mini so much. A unit of M&M termies would be the best, the very best.
Seriously, look at this....
They better make minis of this. I made my own some time ago but that just rocks.
Haighus wrote: It is still a bit vulnerable to Melta weaponry up close. They will still have an impact, albeit less so than before. Also, it isn't immune to Close Combat, just much more resistant than before. So it can still be killed by massed Carnifexes, they will just require more turns and attacks to kill it, because it will take them awhile to chew through it's leg plating.
Haywire is the iffy bit though, it may be better for it to be Glances on a 6+, instead of outright Immunity, but then I can see this thing being electromagnetically shielded, and it does have damn thick armour.
The whole point of the Haywire rule is that it it is strong enough to bypass armor to attack the systems. One could make the argument for Knights, Necrons, or any other piece of war machinery in the 40K era being shielded, yet they are all affected by Haywire attackps.
If a lascannon penetrating through knocks off just 1 HP, one could say it is just hitting redundant hardened systems and thick armor, yet the Warlord isn't completely immune to lasers. There can only be a finite number of redundancies so knocking enough of them out should wear down the Warlord eventually, through HP loss. The same reasoning can be applied to Haywire attacks. Meltas, special CC attacks (and I include Haywire into these) all serve to keep the Titans and superheavies from being totally oblivious to the existence of small infantry. If they ignore them in favor of firing away at enemy superheavies, then they should suffer if they let those infantry in too close.
For the SH damage thing, I am in the camp that ignoring damage results for normal vehicles, but bookkeeping for the badass centre pieces; would make for a more cinematic and awesome game. Having a cool Titan duel whilst lesser troops die in their droves in the cross fire would be awesome I think. Personally I think that MC and GC should get damage results too, to represent their arms or legs being blown off.
For Tyranid Bio-Titans I think they should have the same potential of having weapons or legs disabled, just like they did in the old 2nd edition Epic. The whole differentiation between a Tyranid Bio-Titan and Warlord Titan with one using Gargantuan rules and the other vehicle rules is a purely artificial one anyway.
to cover the first part, 40k era tech has gone backwards from 30 the shielding etc would have been better back then than it is "now"
Not all tech has regressed. Titans and ships are still built, albeit slowly and religiously. Warlords and Warhounds that is. The Reaver is old even by Heresy-era standards, much older than Warlords, so its not built anymore, especially as the Warlord is bigger, tougher and better armed. The Emperor titan is obviously not built much, if at all, either, given its size and rarity.
Just got back from the Open Day, picked up the new command tanks and the picture below is the upgrade sprue that is included in the box along with a standard LR and Rhino.
When I got there they had two Warlords for sale on the Sunday, I would expect that meant they sold two or three Warlords yesterday as they tend to split the allocation between the two days of an event?
I spent a long time talking to the FW team about the build of the Warlord including future plans, even got to see the GW style build instructions (full colour booklet) for it. The build is best as a two man job due to the size and weight of the model, its about 7kg of resin, all on a handful of joints. As I took my tape measure and got the FW team to measure it, I know the Warlord is ~23" to the top most point and ~20" to the top of the carapace, 17" across, 17" front to back of the weapon arms. Frankly it isn't tall enough over the Reaver for the extra money but it is considerably larger in bulk. The head as two areas of internal detail but no internal detail inside the main carapace despite there being a large empty space, this was done to 1) reduce cost and 2) improve the rigidity of the model.
Weapon swaps for the Warlord are going to be very painful, you are either going to have to leave off the pistons for the arms or do a complicated join under a big shield on the arm, there is no easy way to do the swap. Obviously they have a full range of weapons planned, starting with the Reaver missile launcher first up. Oh, and an alternate, Warhammer World only, Warlord head. They also have Mechanicum and Chaos versions planned, Chaos first, but nobody has started working on it yet. I'm going to wait for the Chaos version.
(In case you can't access the pdf for some reason the sollex pattern lascannon is a lascannon with STR 10 and 60" range. IOW, pretty disappointing.)
Yeah, i sent them an e-mail about how weak it was and they said they would mention it to the rules-people (or something to that effect) so i was asking more as a confirmation of what it ended up as, but thanks anyway.
I just figured the lascannon was more for plinking away at targets while you stomp up the field to punch things with that grav fist.
Regarding the new paints, I wonder, if they really are from Coat D'arms, will there be an exact match for the original Ultramarines Blue from the 90's? I hope so, because then I will have to do a UM legion.
Looky Likey wrote: Just got back from the Open Day, picked up the new command tanks and the picture below is the upgrade sprue that is included in the box along with a standard LR and Rhino.
When I got there they had two Warlords for sale on the Sunday, I would expect that meant they sold two or three Warlords yesterday as they tend to split the allocation between the two days of an event?
I spent a long time talking to the FW team about the build of the Warlord including future plans, even got to see the GW style build instructions (full colour booklet) for it. The build is best as a two man job due to the size and weight of the model, its about 7kg of resin, all on a handful of joints. As I took my tape measure and got the FW team to measure it, I know the Warlord is ~23" to the top most point and ~20" to the top of the carapace, 17" across, 17" front to back of the weapon arms. Frankly it isn't tall enough over the Reaver for the extra money but it is considerably larger in bulk. The head as two areas of internal detail but no internal detail inside the main carapace despite there being a large empty space, this was done to 1) reduce cost and 2) improve the rigidity of the model.
Weapon swaps for the Warlord are going to be very painful, you are either going to have to leave off the pistons for the arms or do a complicated join under a big shield on the arm, there is no easy way to do the swap. Obviously they have a full range of weapons planned, starting with the Reaver missile launcher first up. Oh, and an alternate, Warhammer World only, Warlord head. They also have Mechanicum and Chaos versions planned, Chaos first, but nobody has started working on it yet. I'm going to wait for the Chaos version.
Nice lot of info there. Are the WW exclusives limited just to that event or are they always available but just from that store?
My main issue with the Warlord is that from the pictures it looks rather top-heavy. I had trouble with the Reaver and with this one it looks like it'll tip over with a strong glance, not to mention the strain on the joints.
Also, do we have any info on the weapon profiles? Would be interesting to see how powerful these things are.
Requizen wrote: Wait, so is the Chaos Knight actually going to be a release in the future or is it just a conversion/showpiece for the event?
I want a real Chaos Knight!
From the large numbers of Chaos Knights and Lord of Skulls-with-legs conversion kits shown in the display boards, I am pretty sure they will be availble as an actual release.
I'm pretty sure it will get rules eventually. Probably experimental rules as a PDF on release, and inclusion in the next Chaos Imperial Armour after that.
Can't wait for Tempest to go up for pre-order, it'll prolly be another collectors edition first, but feth it, Conquests special edition was well worth it.
BrookM wrote:Can't wait for Tempest to go up for pre-order, it'll prolly be another collectors edition first, but feth it, Conquests special edition was well worth it.
I'd have expected the one on sale this weekend to be a limited if it was going to be available at all as a limited by was a standard edition, so I'd expect it to be a standard edition on sale via the website. I would guess that the 2nd book to have the limited edition slipcase for both books and a map?
Valkyrie wrote:
Nice lot of info there. Are the WW exclusives limited just to that event or are they always available but just from that store?
My main issue with the Warlord is that from the pictures it looks rather top-heavy. I had trouble with the Reaver and with this one it looks like it'll tip over with a strong glance, not to mention the strain on the joints.
Also, do we have any info on the weapon profiles? Would be interesting to see how powerful these things are.
Always available from Warhammer World, didn't like the alt head myself, I thought it lacked detail at present, it was like a 3 up of one of the old titan heads and thus lacked detail.
EDIT: And from what I could see the Warlord would need brass rods up the main leg "bones", across the hip, across the shoulder. Apparently the shoulder mount weapons over balance on the Warlord and need either pinning or magnets, but that isn't a major issue.
Wow, those Titan weapons are nasty- the Saturnyne Lascutter in particular is brutal, and I'm liking the Machine Destroyer rule.
Interesting how they have taken the Plasma Annihilator down the Plasma mortar route. Can be kitted out to be either excellent against other Engines, or brutal at remving large swathes of the enemy army.
Ratius wrote: How on Earth did the vulcan not get juiced up?
A knights gatling gun is comparable to it.
And is the turbo laser now defunct since the blaster has a better profile?
It costs 100pts to upgrade the Warlord shoulder mounts from Turbolasers to Blasters.
Well, the Vulkan still has more shots, but yeah, it only seems to be useful for a bit of AA on the Titan. It would be ok if the Titan could use the fire-twice-if-stationary rule that other Vulkan equipped models get.
Does this mean that you have the book? If so, could you answer some questions about the imperial militia list?
1) What are the grenadiers (troops choice)?
2) Is the thunderbolt the same as the one in HH4 (BS 4, AA missiles)?
3) What are the HQ choices?
1) They are like Imperial Guard vets with a 4+, BS4, replace 2 with special weapons, up to 18 in a squad, which must be a misprint as the squad starts at 10 and can take a gorgon if 20 models in size.
Looky Likey wrote: 1) They are like Imperial Guard vets with a 4+, BS4, replace 2 with special weapons, up to 18 in a squad, which must be a misprint as the squad starts at 10 and can take a gorgon if 20 models in size.
Interesting. Do they get the AP 3 lasguns of 40k grenadiers?
Imperialis Aux Platoon Cadre (Imperial Guard command squad)
The IGHQ command squad (BS 4, regimental standard, etc) I assume? Do they get 4x special weapons like codex IG command squads, or is this another example of FW's habit of making useless IG command squads with only 1-2 special weapons?
Ratius wrote: How on Earth did the vulcan not get juiced up?
A knights gatling gun is comparable to it.
And is the turbo laser now defunct since the blaster has a better profile?
But Warhounds can only take Turbos, whereas only Reavers and Warlords get access to the Blaster.
I'm digging the new weapons, glad to see they haven't gone over the top with "OMG this weapon kills anything and everything to die to death forever", they're just the Reaver weapons upgraded to a degree.
Looky Likey wrote: 1) They are like Imperial Guard vets with a 4+, BS4, replace 2 with special weapons, up to 18 in a squad, which must be a misprint as the squad starts at 10 and can take a gorgon if 20 models in size.
Interesting. Do they get the AP 3 lasguns of 40k grenadiers?
Imperialis Aux Platoon Cadre (Imperial Guard command squad)
The IGHQ command squad (BS 4, regimental standard, etc) I assume? Do they get 4x special weapons like codex IG command squads, or is this another example of FW's habit of making useless IG command squads with only 1-2 special weapons?
No, Auxilia Rifles, S3, AP-, assault 1, no option for any sort of hotshot lasgun. Worked out how to get to 20 in a unit, the special weapons guys are add ons not replacements.
No real special weapon options outside grenade launchers for the entire squad and bunch of things like laslocks, boltguns and shotguns.
Does the Warlord have any other rules aside from the new Titan rules from earlier? I heard something about Armoured Ceramite but saw nothing else on it. Anything about it blowing up spectacularly?
Because GW aren't above handing out pointless rules for fluff reasons, and it's a fething Volcano Cannon.
Which is S10 AP1 on a warlord and S10 AP2 on the Reaver. So like Peregrine said, what would be the point? Besides having a go at GW (which I accept is far from perfect) that is...
So is no one miffed about the blast gun overload being a 9 inch template.
I'm not particularly happy about needing to order a special made custom template size from a 3ed party to run my Warhound.
Looky Likey wrote: No, Auxilia Rifles, S3, AP-, assault 1, no option for any sort of hotshot lasgun.
Well that's kind of disappointing. The "dark age survivors" upgrade gives you a nice 3+ armor save, but they're not going to hit very hard.
Missed the force commander for HQ options.
Is this an IC like the HH4 list had for a HQ option?
They get S4 Lasguns though with the Dark Age Survivors rule, and it would appear they can upgrade to Boltguns too, so not to bad. Sounds like you can make troops in the vein of the Technocracy- access to STC things like Power armour and Boltguns, just without the Genecraft of the Astartes.
Azeroth133 wrote: So is no one miffed about the blast gun overload being a 9 inch template.
I'm not particularly happy about needing to order a special made custom template size from a 3ed party to run my Warhound.
Or just get a bit of cardboard and measure a 9" diameter and cut it out? Or transparent plasticard? Simples.
Azeroth133 wrote: So is no one miffed about the blast gun overload being a 9 inch template.
Not really, because it's obviously a typo. In all other sources it's a 10" blast, and it explicitly calls it an apocalyptic blast.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Haighus wrote: They get S4 Lasguns though with the Dark Age Survivors rule, and it would appear they can upgrade to Boltguns too, so not to bad. Sounds like you can make troops in the vein of the Technocracy- access to STC things like Power armour and Boltguns, just without the Genecraft of the Astartes.
Yeah, but STR 4 lasguns (if they can even take them, they weren't on the quoted list) is kind of weak. What I was hoping for was the AP 3 lasguns that 40k grenadiers get, which would then become STR 4 AP 3 with the "dark age survivors" upgrade. So, not quite marines in toughness, but some really impressive firepower. But I guess we can't do that in the game where most armies are marines.
Azeroth133 wrote: So is no one miffed about the blast gun overload being a 9 inch template.
Not really, because it's obviously a typo. In all other sources it's a 10" blast, and it explicitly calls it an apocalyptic blast.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Haighus wrote: They get S4 Lasguns though with the Dark Age Survivors rule, and it would appear they can upgrade to Boltguns too, so not to bad. Sounds like you can make troops in the vein of the Technocracy- access to STC things like Power armour and Boltguns, just without the Genecraft of the Astartes.
Yeah, but STR 4 lasguns (if they can even take them, they weren't on the quoted list) is kind of weak. What I was hoping for was the AP 3 lasguns that 40k grenadiers get, which would then become STR 4 AP 3 with the "dark age survivors" upgrade. So, not quite marines in toughness, but some really impressive firepower. But I guess we can't do that in the game where most armies are marines.
I meant they were S4 after the "upgrade" from the Dark Age Survivors rule, not S4 base, although didn't one of the Wargear options mention Laslocks, which are S4 base?
Haighus wrote: I meant they were S4 after the "upgrade" from the Dark Age Survivors rule, not S4 base, although didn't one of the Wargear options mention Laslocks, which are S4 base?
What I mean is that they only get militia rifles (single shot lasguns) by default, and the list of upgrade options Looky Likey gave doesn't include lasguns. So if you can take lasguns they'd be STR 4, but are proper lasguns actually an option?
Edit: and looking elsewhere it seems they are. Still, I wish they had proper grenadier rifles.
Looky Likey wrote: No, Auxilia Rifles, S3, AP-, assault 1, no option for any sort of hotshot lasgun.
Well that's kind of disappointing. The "dark age survivors" upgrade gives you a nice 3+ armor save, but they're not going to hit very hard.
Missed the force commander for HQ options.
Is this an IC like the HH4 list had for a HQ option?
They get S4 Lasguns though with the Dark Age Survivors rule, and it would appear they can upgrade to Boltguns too, so not to bad. Sounds like you can make troops in the vein of the Technocracy- access to STC things like Power armour and Boltguns, just without the Genecraft of the Astartes.
Or use Dark Age Survivors with Abhumans to creat a army of short T4 Abhumans who wear power armour and use land raiders. If only their was a name for this short technologically advanced race.
Haighus wrote: I meant they were S4 after the "upgrade" from the Dark Age Survivors rule, not S4 base, although didn't one of the Wargear options mention Laslocks, which are S4 base?
What I mean is that they only get militia rifles (single shot lasguns) by default, and the list of upgrade options Looky Likey gave doesn't include lasguns. So if you can take lasguns they'd be STR 4, but are proper lasguns actually an option?
Edit: and looking elsewhere it seems they are. Still, I wish they had proper grenadier rifles.
I am pretty sure that only DKoK grenadiers (and stormtroopers/scions, obviously) actually get AP3 guns. Normal IG grenadiers get standard lasguns. So the lack of hotshots is a not a surprise.
Because of the vast swathes of footslogging MEQ in 30k, AP3 is understandably more expensive and rare.
Looky Likey wrote: No, Auxilia Rifles, S3, AP-, assault 1, no option for any sort of hotshot lasgun.
Well that's kind of disappointing. The "dark age survivors" upgrade gives you a nice 3+ armor save, but they're not going to hit very hard.
Missed the force commander for HQ options.
Is this an IC like the HH4 list had for a HQ option?
They get S4 Lasguns though with the Dark Age Survivors rule, and it would appear they can upgrade to Boltguns too, so not to bad. Sounds like you can make troops in the vein of the Technocracy- access to STC things like Power armour and Boltguns, just without the Genecraft of the Astartes.
Or use Dark Age Survivors with Abhumans to creat a army of short T4 Abhumans who wear power armour and use land raiders. If only their was a name for this short technologically advanced race.
I thought people might be interested in the scale diagram I did, based on the measurements by 'looky likey'. 23 to the top, 20 to carapace, 17 wide and deep.
Ashiraya wrote: I am pretty sure that only DKoK grenadiers (and stormtroopers/scions, obviously) actually get AP3 guns. Normal IG grenadiers get standard lasguns. So the lack of hotshots is a not a surprise.
Nope. IG stormtroopers get AP 3 lasguns, MT get AP 3 lasguns, and all FW variant stormtroopers get AP 3 lasguns. In fact, IIRC the 5th edition IG codex was the first book to change stormtrooper guns from the old STR 3 AP 5 to AP 3.
Kanluwen wrote: Ashiraya is likely referring to the "Grenadiers" doctrine/trait for Veteran Squads.
Oh. Yeah, I misread that completely and I'd forgotten that the carapace armor upgrade for veterans was called "grenadiers". Which is really weird because the "grenadiers" doctrine in the codex before 5th edition was about taking stormtrooper squads as troops.
There will be a wait to get one. They had a large back log of orders from Saturday. Not sure how much this was added to from Sunday but it clearly takes them quite a while to cast them as they had 11 for sale over the weekend and had at least 3 weeks to cast that many. I was told they cast as many as they could for the event and on Saturday thru had at least 15 orders.
I'm not saying it will be over a month wait to get one if they go up today just giving anecdotal information that seems to imply it could be that long.
Automatically Appended Next Post: New products go up on a Friday. If it was going up for sale asap it would be friday. Given my previous post Im not sure of it will be this friday or not.
fiorehellheart wrote: I thought people might be interested in the scale diagram I did, based on the measurements by 'looky likey'. 23 to the top, 20 to carapace, 17 wide and deep.
That makes it look much bigger compared to the Reaver than it did on the day, I'm now more tempted than I was by it. I think though I shall remain strong and wait for the Chaos version as hopefully more weapon options should be out then as I don't like the guns it has at present.
One thing that I'm not sure has come across with the Imperial/Chaos Militia list is that it seems to be geared up to allow you to make pretty much any type of guard army with your own models other than a true elite list packing tons of AP3 and special weapons. It reminds me more of the older IG codexes that had to use a huge number of bodies or tanks to overwhelm Marines rather than relying on a handful of elite units that can go toe to toe with a Marine in a gun fight.
Oh, and an alternate, Warhammer World only, Warlord head.
*sigh*
So for those of us who want a retro head not only would we have to pay more and end up with two heads, we can only get it from one store in the world.
Why does GW hate money?
If it makes you feel any better. The warlord head is sold separately to the body so you don't need to have paid for 2 heads. You would still need to travel to nottingham to get the head you wanted though.
I don't really see the point, either. I know people will buy them, though, but it just seems like a colossal waste.
I mean yeah, it's big and cool and everyone values things differently, but when you think of all the other stuff you could get for $2000...I mean even from GW, you could probably buy two very playable armies for 40k with that money, or one really big one. I'd rather have $2000 worth of Orks than a single warlord, that would be far more impressive on the table when all laid out...if it even fits.
Sidstyler wrote: I don't really see the point, either. I know people will buy them, though, but it just seems like a colossal waste.
I mean yeah, it's big and cool and everyone values things differently, but when you think of all the other stuff you could get for $2000...I mean even from GW, you could probably buy two very playable armies for 40k with that money, or one really big one. I'd rather have $2000 worth of Orks than a single warlord, that would be far more impressive on the table when all laid out...if it even fits.
That implies that somebody buying this doesn't already own $2000 of Orks or can't afford $2000 of orks on top of the Warlord. Its not always fair but there are always people with considerably more disposable funds, I'd like to be able to race Ferraris every weekend but I didn't work hard enough at school.
Also some significant changes for Titans
All patterns:
- never blocked in assault
- immune to haywire, dangerous terrain, psychic attacks other than whichfire
Reaver and Warlord:
- can only be hit on 6 during assault by infantry and monstrous creatures and 5-6 by sup-heavy walkers
Warlord only:
- stomp attack with 5'' blast
Only hit on a 6 by MCs? Sure some MCs are a bit "weedy" (since there is such a wide range of them) but are they seriously thinking a Tryannofex, Swarmlord or DK cant scratch a Reaver? Hmmm, dont agree with that at all.
Immune to haywire completely? At least make it a 6 to glance.
And never blocked should only be VS X or less models. Full Greentide cant lock down a Reaver? Warlord maybe but.....
Pass that salt shaker lads.
I like all those a lot - and I know our resident Titan player will be ecstatic
All seems pretty fluffy to me - the larger Titans tended to have problems when Infantry get inside the hull more than with those outside and there is an awful lot of haywire around now.........
Looking forward to seeing more of the Ordinatus - THAT bit at the end of Helsreach is pretty awesome
marv335 wrote: Anyone heard anything about a special edition of Tempest?
I don't want to pull the trigger on the book then find out there is an SE in the pipeline.
There won't be now. The SE one of conquest came out before the standard one. Also, if there was a SE it would've been on sale for people at WMW this weekend but it wasn't.
Obligatory "I've got my pre-order in and am excited" post here Particularly intrigued to see these militia/cult army lists, could help me to achieve more of an epic feel in my HH games without permanently destroying my finances if I can convert a load of plastic IG to use.
fiorehellheart wrote: I thought people might be interested in the scale diagram I did, based on the measurements by 'looky likey'. 23 to the top, 20 to carapace, 17 wide and deep.
Congradulations sir. You have completely changed my opinion on the Warlord. It looks a lot smaller because the guys are included in the height, but at least its to-scale with the Reaver. And putting it beside the Mars Warhound and Reaver makes it look infinitely less "Knight" and more Mars-pattern.
Just waiting now for the Lucius Pattern blocky model and I'll put some kidneys and liver sections on ebay. They may or may not be mine.
The elder phantom slots neatly in there as well - 17" to the head, 22.5" to the wing tips measuring mine. Essentially the Warlord and phantom SHOULD be eye to eye with the wings on the phantom brushing the height of the carapace weapons.
This is almost spot on from the days of Epic! Well done FW!
mind.
Granted they are all Graham McNeill books.
