Too bad 13th company will never be cool and characterful like they were in the Black Crusade codex. So boring to just be more stuff for regular space wolves to take.
I thought the fact that they were even more elite Space Wolves, but with no vehicles whatsoever aside from bikes was friggin cool, along with their teleporting Rune Priests and free movement phase for all non bikes/non terminators before the game started. They were really interesting and fun to play as a pure army.
AegisGrimm wrote: Too bad 13th company will never be cool and characterful like they were in the Black Crusade codex. So boring to just be more stuff for regular space wolves to take.
I thought the fact that they were even more elite Space Wolves, but with no vehicles whatsoever aside from bikes was friggin cool, along with their teleporting Rune Priests and free movement phase for all non bikes/non terminators before the game started. They were really interesting and fun to play as a pure army.
AegisGrimm- that is what I was hoping they were going for (and maybe they will, we havent seen the new psychic cards). Personally I was hoping for cheap wulfen in large packs led by a wolf priest and rune priests teleporting long fangs with assault weapons (including helfrosts) around the board to differentiate them from Devastators. It wouldnt have been a tournament army, but I think it would be fun. The fact that suddently wulfen are back and are part of the normal SW codex is a bit of a miss for me.
Seeing the Curse of the Wulfen kind of makes me want to make something similar for the Death Company. I am hoping GW overhauls BA when they get to them.
An army with a nice core of Grey Hunters and some Wulfen would be very potent. It just so happens I have just that...
Its a shame the chart does nothing for Swiftclaw bikes, I mean they already have hammer of wrath as bikes so they don't get it, they have rage so they dont get the d3 extra attacks and they are bikes so they can't run. I love my unit of 10 BC bikes, but they are so underwhelming. Assault claws are the same, having both the rage and hammer of wrath attacks (although they could run, but then wouldnt be able to charge).
Maybe the wolfguard formation with all dual wolf claws teleporting down turm 1 next to a pod with 5 wulfen and some lone wolves in terminator armor teleporting in??
Basically the only table that will really help "claw" units is the kill table, its just too bad they cant get the effects when charging. However, having a unit of wulfen pop up while engaged could help these guys as any of the buffs will greatly help their performance. I'm really liking the reroll to wound when coupled with a wolf priests preferred enemy rule for the unit.
But, I don't think it will be easy or point and click to pull off.
I don't think Wulfen are going to be all that overpowered because they aren't going to be all that hard to kill. In an army where everything has a 3+ save, a 4+ save on an elite unit might as well be paper armour because it gives something for all those AP4 guns to shoot at. If you give enough of them Storm Shields they get harder to kill but also get much more expensive.
I don't think they are overpowered, more so they are viable elite melee units in a game where most melee units aren't viable, which maybe makes them look overpowered compared to other melee units which were already underperforming.
Looking at the pics from the datasheet leak, I think the only one I really object to is the pack leader (or whatever he is) in the Karate Kid pose. The rest of them are actually kind of cool (#5 in the back is too blurry to be sure); I even kind of dig the legs on the guys immediately to the left and right of Mr. Crane Kick. The pose of the guy on the right with the double-handed axe I really like. The legs on the guy on the far left I'm not fond of, but I may change my mind when I see the actual model.
So, so far, "like some of them, but not love 'em enough to buy just to paint" is where I peg them. If I did Space Wolves at some point, I'd definitely get a set of these guys, though.
I feel a LOT better about the kit already. It seems like it is going to have mountains of bits (5 hammers confirmed, implies 5 of each specialist weapon?), and even karate-kid pose looks massively better with differently posed arms/weapon choice.
I'm definitely in for two boxes... but admit a little snicker at seeing their formation being called a Murder Pack. :-p Son of Murderfang indeed.
gwarsh41 wrote: The wulfen backpacks are just too insanely cool. I have a feeling they will be selling on ebay like crazy.
A lot of the bits looks cool. I think many of them could find a home on other SW units/characters. And from reading the WD leaks, it looks like there are a lot of bits on those sprues.
Ahhh thank you for the much better pics. A lot of those models look great. Legs still a little iffy, and the one pose bugs me. Bits sound awesome, and backpacks are terrific. The bases look huge!
Did anyone see the 45" T1 charge combo on BoLS? LOL. Insanity!
Rapid Maneuver: Sammael’s Warlord trait gives him and his unit +3″ run and charge moves.
Wulfen’s Leaping Bounds Special Rule: This unit can run and attack. It also rerolls failed charge rolls.
This squad can move 12″ in the movement phase, run an extra three inches for their run (thanks to Sammael), and charge 2d6 +3 inches (Sammael) for a average threat range of 29″. That seems to be more than enough to get into your opponents deployment zone on turn one. Plus you can use attached cyber wolves to stretch the line back and keep the Wulfen in coherencey of the rampaging Thunderwolves in the front to keep everything legal during the movement phase.
BUT WAIT, THERE’S MORE!
Remember that Curse of the Wulfen special rule that all Space Wolves get from their scary warp brothers? Well the Thunderwolves in the unit, now affected by Curse of the Wulfen’s Hunt chart, on a roll of a 4 or 5 get an additional +3 to movement, running, and charging.
So now the Thunderwolf Characters could move an additional 3″ (CoTW), run an extra 6″ (CoTW Effect and Sammael), and charge an extra 6″ (CoTW Effect and Sammael). That brings their total assault threat range to a whopping 45 inches (a “normal” 12″ Move, 6″ Run, 12″ charge maximum rolls = 30, PLUS the 15 extra inches of free movement above).
That distance is nearly the entire length of the short board edge that could theoretically be covered in a minimum of one in every three games of 40k with this unit.
Yeah, you are using the Wulfen to buff the TWC to get the extra move. But it basically lets you run the TWC as far as you could want, on a 6x4 board, even with bad charge rolls.
The bike moves 12", the Thunderwolves chain back to the Wulfen, and the whole thing strings itself out begging to be dissected.
Of course, the idiot writing that ignores the fact that units of Wulfen don't benefit from the Curse of the Wulfen, so no Thunderwolf-riding Characters that join them will benefit.
People saying they cost too much and will die after they kill a unit, yeah maybe, they also don't HAVE to charge, and can still force multiply, not so much from distance to friendly units to be effective but clever play can see them boost other units, that can wipe out the opponent front line, then they charge to take out any lingering big nasties or they can dive into huge horde units.
Anyway, 210 points to delete a storm surge/ghost keels/riptides or 250 points (thunder hammer and storm shield) to delete wraith knights and imperial knights. Sign me up personally.
As a suicide unit alone they are worth their points on the right target.
Question, is the storm wolf an assault unit, and can they run and charge out of one? (hove mode is needed I assume is it is an assault vehicle?)
endlesswaltz123 wrote: Anyway, 210 points to delete a storm surge/ghost keels/riptides or 250 points (thunder hammer and storm shield) to delete wraith knights and imperial knights. Sign me up personally.
A unit of these guys in no way instagibs any of those. At least, no better than TWC do it already.
@endlesswaltz123 - Yeah, pretty much that. It opens up some options and it's a good force multiplier. I think these guys are a solid unit for SW.
Plus, the ability to get into assault so quickly or take out a front line defense makes it possibly attractive to take SW as an allied force to DA or Vanilla marines. They're sure better than the assault terminators that Blood Angels got
I think it'll be interesting to see how people actually play them.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: Anyway, 210 points to delete a storm surge/ghost keels/riptides or 250 points (thunder hammer and storm shield) to delete wraith knights and imperial knights. Sign me up personally.
A unit of these guys in no way instagibs any of those. At least, no better than TWC do it already.
Yes they do, especially against any SH/GMC since the Wulfen will always get to attack, even when killed... Between S10 thunder hammers and what, S7 or S8? ap2 ice claws, these guys will laugh at anything else in the game in combat and punk it with almost 0 effort.
Sure, against a GMC they'll probably all die, but I don't think there's a single GMC in the game that costs less than a min-sized, decently equipped unit of Wulfen.
Their upgrades especially are just as criminally undercosted as the Wraithknight.
Nomeny wrote: The bike moves 12", the Thunderwolves chain back to the Wulfen, and the whole thing strings itself out begging to be dissected.
Of course, the idiot writing that ignores the fact that units of Wulfen don't benefit from the Curse of the Wulfen, so no Thunderwolf-riding Characters that join them will benefit.
Exactly, IC's become the unit they join meaning your not gaining everything they have to offer. Plus I still think it's beyond stupid to have the classic rivals being super friends. DA and SW have had a long standing feud ever since the Lion cold cocked the Wolf when he was laughing. Not to mention DA are the definition of xenophobic anti mutant racists No way Sammy would hang around with the wolf man like its casual Friday or something.
I'll note I am the counts as king, but their are even a few things in 40k canon I wouldn't sacrifice for modelling. I also would struggle to find a modelling outcome using wolfs, marines riding wolfs, marines turning into wolfs and space knights, one of which floats If someone else can without smelling like cheddar due to the stacking of rules I am all ears.
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endlesswaltz123 wrote: People saying they cost too much and will die after they kill a unit, yeah maybe, they also don't HAVE to charge, and can still force multiply, not so much from distance to friendly units to be effective but clever play can see them boost other units, that can wipe out the opponent front line, then they charge to take out any lingering big nasties or they can dive into huge horde units.
Anyway, 210 points to delete a storm surge/ghost keels/riptides or 250 points (thunder hammer and storm shield) to delete wraith knights and imperial knights. Sign me up personally.
As a suicide unit alone they are worth their points on the right target.
Question, is the storm wolf an assault unit, and can they run and charge out of one? (hove mode is needed I assume is it is an assault vehicle?)
The storm wolf is an assault ship but it is not worth its cost in that scenario. I'd take a LR crusader over a SW for these any day of the week. Coming in on T2 67% of the time only to wait a turn in zoom mode so these guys can get nuked is a bad idea. Even if they are ignored thats a t3 assault the earliest. I mean, why not take a second unit over a SW? But luckily SW heavy support is awful, so you just take the crusader and laugh off turn 1 shots, then move 6, disembark 6 run ~4 more inches and average a 9 inch assault. Thats 25" out of your deployment zone, should be plenty without resorting to idiotic combos.
I'm pretty sure the Dark Angels are the first to accept that the ends justifies the means, particularly if it means ganking one of the Fallen. After all, what better use for Space Wolves than meat-shields and cannon-fodder?
But as noted, the stacking doesn't actually work in the rules, so it's a moot point.
Nomeny wrote: I'm pretty sure the Dark Angels are the first to accept that the ends justifies the means, particularly if it means ganking one of the Fallen. After all, what better use for Space Wolves than meat-shields and cannon-fodder?
But as noted, the stacking doesn't actually work in the rules, so it's a moot point.
Yea so when your playing tau be sure to point out which guy is a fallen member
As I said, someone will always scrape up some lame excuse as to why that conviniently fresh new OP combo is actually fueled by a love of fluff. I'd be the first to shut up if the guy had the list months if not years in advance and it wasn't that good, but thats never the case.
Not to derail the thread any more then I have but this is just more evidence why imperial batbros super friends combos (eldar as well) should probably be reduced a step so they can't stack every broken power under the sun. But then again 40k has never been a solid game when balance is the issue for debate. Interesting topic none the less.
Seems balanced to me, especially when people read the rules and see that the combination in question doesn't actually do anything special, let alone its frailty to a basic tactic like tarpitting.
Nomeny wrote: Seems balanced to me, especially when people read the rules and see that the combination in question doesn't actually do anything special, let alone its frailty to a basic tactic like tarpitting.
Clearly you are unaware of the silly combo that already exists between those two factions that was rofl stomping a lot of people at the NOVA. It involves TWC and DA bikes along with invisibility and it is beyond stupid, especially since you clearly are unaware of the fact raven wing come with hit and run and have a neat banner that lets them auto pass
They look like werewolves in power armor jeans shorts and tank tops... and I say that about the guy on the left that is my "favorite" of the bunch. My comments about the rest are less flattering.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: Anyway, 210 points to delete a storm surge/ghost keels/riptides or 250 points (thunder hammer and storm shield) to delete wraith knights and imperial knights. Sign me up personally.
A unit of these guys in no way instagibs any of those. At least, no better than TWC do it already.
Unless they attack twice as a result of being killed off... in which case that has probably been a very worthy trade.
Nomeny wrote: Seems balanced to me, especially when people read the rules and see that the combination in question doesn't actually do anything special, let alone its frailty to a basic tactic like tarpitting.
Clearly you are unaware of the silly combo that already exists between those two factions that was rofl stomping a lot of people at the NOVA. It involves TWC and DA bikes along with invisibility and it is beyond stupid, especially since you clearly are unaware of the fact raven wing come with hit and run and have a neat banner that lets them auto pass
If I get any of these, I am definitely giving them shoulder pauldrons from a Grey Hunter pack. It solves most of the visual issues I have with them that I can do anything about short of a large amount of customizing.
Nomeny wrote: Seems balanced to me, especially when people read the rules and see that the combination in question doesn't actually do anything special, let alone its frailty to a basic tactic like tarpitting.
Clearly you are unaware of the silly combo that already exists between those two factions that was rofl stomping a lot of people at the NOVA. It involves TWC and DA bikes along with invisibility and it is beyond stupid, especially since you clearly are unaware of the fact raven wing come with hit and run and have a neat banner that lets them auto pass
Clearly!
Ha ha your lucky to be innocently unaware of such tom foolery kind sir
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The Wise Dane wrote: You can say many things about these guys... But why a fething automatic grenade launcher of all things?!
Because they need assault grenades dude, they are marines
Yep, as expected, better pics confirm initial view; no thanks. I don't understand how they could mess these up, literally all they had to do was translate that brilliant piece of artwork into model form, instead we get quillhair, armoured booty shorts, ludicrous weapons, and pignoses :(
They look like werewolves in power armor jeans shorts and tank tops... and I say that about the guy on the left that is my "favorite" of the bunch. My comments about the rest are less flattering.
The one on the left is a pretty good Wolvering - but the rest are not selling to me - especailly at the price.
Man, they look... busy. I hope the heads are removable or swappable. I feel like they could be vastly improved with just regular marine heads. Not into the caveman vibe.
I feel the models and poses are ugly. The portions are definitely off. Look a bit like bobble heads to me, and the arms are freakish. I like the rules for them though. They may only have a 4+, but they are multi-wound models. I feel like I would love to give them T5 in some fashion, but I suppose Invisibility would work just fine. I feel frost claws on them will be a thing with their I5 S5 Rage. But, hey I'm not a SW player so I could be wrong.
They are workable, I guess, but the fact that they have been granted gear that you would only see on veteran warriors like Wolf Guard really irks me. Not as much as being part of normal Space Wolf formations, but still doesn't sit right.
They were much better when they were marines too far gone to the Curse to even use weapons properly. The Thirteenth Company's great shame being used as a weapon against Chaos, because of their even greater-than normal resistance to the Ruinous Powers.
If I could justify the price, I could at least grow to like the Ice claws, if only because I would immediately paint them as steel claws, kind of like unpowered lightning claws being driven by their enhanced strength.
They look like werewolves in power armor jeans shorts and tank tops... and I say that about the guy on the left that is my "favorite" of the bunch. My comments about the rest are less flattering.
Haha warboss. "Jorts" Will never get that out of my head now!
endlesswaltz123 wrote: Anyway, 210 points to delete a storm surge/ghost keels/riptides or 250 points (thunder hammer and storm shield) to delete wraith knights and imperial knights. Sign me up personally.
A unit of these guys in no way instagibs any of those. At least, no better than TWC do it already.
The death throws rule will indeed delete one of most knights. As they still get to hit even when they die.
Seeing that there are ten heads and a whole bunch of weapons in this kit (5 thunder hammers), buying a box of regular marines alongside this and making ten less busy Wulfen would look a lot better.
As a side note we have known for a while that the beginning of this year was fyreslayers and then space wolves, but we still don't seem to have any idea what is coming next. Are we getting new demon models?
warboss wrote: They look like werewolves in power armor jeans shorts and tank tops... and I say that about the guy on the left that is my "favorite" of the bunch. My comments about the rest are less flattering.
Yeah, they're shamefully bad. Any time the tired "GW make the best models in the world!!!" line gets trotted out, these should be conclusive proof to the contrary.
My buddy alread modeled some for fluff reasons and was using them as C/A TWC. He chaosed up some circke of Orobos werewolves. Gave one or two dread knight hammers. Totally rad. Ill try to get him to repost...
"Nighthowler"
Was just thinking that, replace the lower legs with armoured ones and add the odd shoulder pad and you're in business IMO.
Absolutely, that is what I will be doing.
They will match neatly with the old metal wulfen models that I have. And probably not look as gangly.
It all depends on the scale. If these things are significantly larger than regular Space Marines it could take significant conversion work to make regular SM legs fit without looking silly.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: It all depends on the scale. If these things are significantly larger than regular Space Marines it could take significant conversion work to make regular SM legs fit without looking silly.
beezley1981 wrote: I'm thinking between a box of this, beastmen, and Grey Hunters, I can put together 15-20 reasonable looking Wulfen.
GW likes the way you think: didn't even know you needed anything a week ago, now you're ready to buy three boxed sets just to get your Space furries to look propa
beezley1981 wrote: I'm thinking between a box of this, beastmen, and Grey Hunters, I can put together 15-20 reasonable looking Wulfen.
GW likes the way you think: didn't even know you needed anything a week ago, now you're ready to buy three boxed sets just to get your Space furries to look propa
The box of Beastmen were free and I've has the Grey Hunters for years. GW wants me to spend $240 on 20 dudes. Instead I'll spend $60. They don't hate me, but they don't love me as much as they could, haha.
Was just thinking that, replace the lower legs with armoured ones and add the odd shoulder pad and you're in business IMO.
Absolutely, that is what I will be doing.
They will match neatly with the old metal wulfen models that I have. And probably not look as gangly.
It all depends on the scale. If these things are significantly larger than regular Space Marines it could take significant conversion work to make regular SM legs fit without looking silly.
I bet if you cut the lower legs off of some Assault Marines and glued them to the upper legs of these kits that they wouldn't look that terrible. Honestly, I was thinking of attaching the feet from these to regular armored legs. May take a bit more work, but is would at least make them look more like Space Marines. Then again, their 4+ Armor Save is explained by a lot of their armor missing/not fitting. I still would want to put the shoulder armor on, since what is a Space Marine without his shoulder armor?
The miniatures aren't as bad as I expected, but as most said, really not a fan of the foot. Not too high on the rules also, the hunter/killer table seems a bit of a mess. At first glance, using mathammer, they looked way OP points wise vs fellow assault units, but now that I tested them vs more units, they don't seem that bad, they're just OP compared to my Orks :(
As suspected, clearer pictures have only worsened my initial impressions. I do like that the second-from-the-right is playing some really sweet riffs on his axe
I like them. And you don't have to make that Jesus karateka either, as there are (I damn hope so) lots of new weapons, maybe 5 copies of each if we get lucky. And for 60$ I we'd better be.
Now the english rules are out how do you read them? There seems to be some who think the leader may take the other weapon options as well and others who think he is limited to the claws.
Looks to me like the leader comes with two frost claws, so you have to pay for those, but then you can pay extra to get any other weapon. Can't really see any other reading of it.
Warhams-77 wrote: Now the english rules are out how do you read them? There seems to be some who think the leader may take the other weapon options as well and others who think he is limited to the claws.
]
clearly the rules state that you upgrade a wulfen to a pack leader with the cost of claws included. After this option there is no further option to buy any other weapons (you read from up to down) so no other weapon can be bought. This is very standard since waaaaaay back for GW in how you read these purchase lists.
Warhams-77 wrote: Now the english rules are out how do you read them? There seems to be some who think the leader may take the other weapon options as well and others who think he is limited to the claws.
]
clearly the rules state that you upgrade a wulfen to a pack leader with the cost of claws included. After this option there is no further option to buy any other weapons (you read from up to down) so no other weapon can be bought. This is very standard since waaaaaay back for GW in how you read these purchase lists.
Really? I've never heard of the "you read from up to down" thing?
When it says "Any model may be equipped with one of the following options" I interpret that to mean ANY model, even the Pack Leader.
I'm still undecided. But why not make the leader upgrade 8 pts - without the claws - as he could still be upgraded later? GW would not list leader + claws if he had access to it via upgrades like the other Wulfen.
Edit: He would still keep the launcher as it is not replaced like other weapons with the auto-included claws.
I always planned on doing a SW army but that idea loses steam with each iteration of the codex and each new terrible sculpt.
These things look awful, the poses seem really badly done and just do not fit any of the weapon options well at all.
Warhams-77 wrote: I'm still undecided. But why not make the leader upgrade 8 pts - without the claws - as he could still be upgraded later? GW would not list leader + claws if he had access to it via upgrades like the other Wulfen.
Edit: He would still keep the launcher as it is not replaced like other weapons with the auto-included claws.
Why would he be able to take the launcher but not the other items? The claws don't replace any of his items, and neither do any of the weapon options.
So we still don't know what unit(s) get access to the Helfrost Pistol, do we? We do know that the Wulfen can NOT take them, so why are their rules there with them? And what kit will even come with a Helfrost Pistol to equip a unit with? So far the only confirmed kit is the Wulfen, and since they don't get to use it, they probably won't include a Helfrost Pistol in their kit.
Warhams-77 wrote: I'm still undecided. But why not make the leader upgrade 8 pts - without the claws - as he could still be upgraded later? GW would not list leader + claws if he had access to it via upgrades like the other Wulfen.
GW aren't exactly brilliant at writing clear rules. My guess is they included the 2 claws automatically with the pack leader simply because the pack leader is a monopose model that comes with them
But the way I read it, he can take other weapons but will simply pay a premium.
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casvalremdeikun wrote: So we still don't know what unit(s) get access to the Helfrost Pistol, do we? We do know that the Wulfen can NOT take them, so why are their rules there with them? And what kit will even come with a Helfrost Pistol to equip a unit with? So far the only confirmed kit is the Wulfen, and since they don't get to use it, they probably won't include a Helfrost Pistol in their kit.
There's also no one currently who can take the "Tempest Hammer".
It clearly states that the wolfen can take ONE of thouse weapons. The leader already comes with claws, so he can't take any other weapons. Besides it would just be too expensive.
Upgrading a Wulfen to a pack leader does not replace anything so you can give him a Auto Grenade, a Single special CC wepaon option and then you cna further upgrade him to a pack leader with Frost claws
Why would you read it any other way?
If it said it replaced all weapons than what you said would be correct.
Technically all wulfen (and the pack leader) retain their original close combat weapon?
hordrak wrote: It clearly states that the wolfen can take ONE of thouse weapons. The leader already comes with claws, so he can't take any other weapons. Besides it would just be too expensive.
I do not think I have seen this image in this thread so I am reposting it from the Daemons rumour thread.
As clearer pictures come in, these models are starting to look worse than they did in the blurry snapshots. At least before the upper torsos looked salvageable, but that neck. . . those arms. . .
This is not one of Games Workshop's best releases.
This one is awful. But i think youll be able to make five good looking wulfens with the kit. Though, i might have weird taste, since it seems im the only one who loves the packleader (remind me of sabertooth)
So there are NO new traits, psychic powers or relics for the wolves just for daemons and wolves get only formations + wulfen rules according to the WD. The tempest hammer and hellfros pistol is definately for ulric who is shown in an image wielding the hammer. I hope i would be wrong.
PS If we had new psychic powers we would have new data cards for pre order.
the Signless wrote: As clearer pictures come in, these models are starting to look worse than they did in the blurry snapshots. At least before the upper torsos looked salvageable, but that neck. . . those arms. . .
This is not one of Games Workshop's best releases.
Holy s*it. The length of that neck!
Kirasu wrote: Clearly this kit is designed for Marvel fans since the only positive things being said are "Good wolverine standin!" or "sabertooth".
Considering the neck, we can add 'Mr Fantastic' and 'The Elongated Man' to the list
What's the deal for the Hellfrost Pistol? The rules for it are in the datasheet thing, but, as far as I can see, no Wulfen can take it as an option. Or am I being blind?
I made the mistake of actually getting excited by this announcement, but looking through the thread I'm much more ambivalent now. I had collected a small force of 13th Co. from the old Eye of Terror codex years ago (never really finished it before the 13th Co. miniatures went OOP) as I really loved the look of them back then. Much less impressed with these new pics, especially the new Wulfen.
sturguard wrote: I thought it was confirmed that the SW also got new spell cards and formations (one for each of the great companies).
Not new cards, yes new formations.
mdauben wrote: I made the mistake of actually getting excited by this announcement, but looking through the thread I'm much more ambivalent now. I had collected a small force of 13th Co. from the old Eye of Terror codex years ago (never really finished it before the 13th Co. miniatures went OOP) as I really loved the look of them back then. Much less impressed with these new pics, especially the new Wulfen.
Then go on Ebay, buy more of the old models and do not worry about WYSISYG and use your models with the rules and .....?
Unless for some reason the rules do not excite you and if that is the case I do not know what can help you.
BloodGrin wrote: Then go on Ebay, buy more of the old models and do not worry about WYSISYG and use your models with the rules and .....?
Unless for some reason the rules do not excite you and if that is the case I do not know what can help you.
The last time I checked (admittedly a couple years ago) the old 13th Co. boxes were already going for stupid money on ebay. The only really unique figures were the old metal wulfen, but making the other 13th Co. figures requires combining the SW box sets with lots of Chaos Space Marine bits and is, if not stupidly expensive, at least much more expensive than just fielding normal SW marines.
As far as WYSIWYG goes, I generally find it too much of a PITA for both my opponent and myself to remember which figures are actually equipped with which weapons if large numbers of figures are not WYSIWYG. I really have not looked close enough at the rules to determine if I like them or not.
I didn't mean to come across as whining about the release, I'm sure a lot of people will enjoy it and I don't rule out picking it up myself, just saying I would have been more eager to jump on it if they looked more like the old release.
BloodGrin wrote: Then go on Ebay, buy more of the old models and do not worry about WYSISYG and use your models with the rules and .....?
Unless for some reason the rules do not excite you and if that is the case I do not know what can help you.
The last time I checked (admittedly a couple years ago) the old 13th Co. boxes were already going for stupid money on ebay. The only really unique figures were the old metal wulfen, but making the other 13th Co. figures requires combining the SW box sets with lots of Chaos Space Marine bits and is, if not stupidly expensive, at least much more expensive than just fielding normal SW marines.
As far as WYSIWYG goes, I generally find it too much of a PITA for both my opponent and myself to remember which figures are actually equipped with which weapons if large numbers of figures are not WYSIWYG. I really have not looked close enough at the rules to determine if I like them or not.
I didn't mean to come across as whining about the release, I'm sure a lot of people will enjoy it and I don't rule out picking it up myself, just saying I would have been more eager to jump on it if they looked more like the old release.
You can get lucky if you catch them by using "newly added".
Right now the average is roughly 15 per model, though in units you can sometimes get a squad for 70ish which to be honest is not that bad considering these cost $60
Wow. I guess I will have to hold out hope that they just didnt mention it in the White Dwarf and there are new spell cards. The SW have one of the worst psychic decks out there and I was hoping they were going to remedy that. I was also hoping that they would go back and let them have Gate as one of their spells to hop Long Fangs around and make more of the general SW units useful.
BloodGrin wrote: Then go on Ebay, buy more of the old models and do not worry about WYSISYG and use your models with the rules and .....?
Unless for some reason the rules do not excite you and if that is the case I do not know what can help you.
The last time I checked (admittedly a couple years ago) the old 13th Co. boxes were already going for stupid money on ebay. The only really unique figures were the old metal wulfen, but making the other 13th Co. figures requires combining the SW box sets with lots of Chaos Space Marine bits and is, if not stupidly expensive, at least much more expensive than just fielding normal SW marines.
As far as WYSIWYG goes, I generally find it too much of a PITA for both my opponent and myself to remember which figures are actually equipped with which weapons if large numbers of figures are not WYSIWYG. I really have not looked close enough at the rules to determine if I like them or not.
I didn't mean to come across as whining about the release, I'm sure a lot of people will enjoy it and I don't rule out picking it up myself, just saying I would have been more eager to jump on it if they looked more like the old release.
You can get lucky if you catch them by using "newly added".
Right now the average is roughly 15 per model, though in units you can sometimes get a squad for 70ish which to be honest is not that bad considering these cost $60
I bought a set of 5 (brand new without backpacks) for $70 shipped last week after I saw the new models.
Warhams-77 wrote: I'm still undecided. But why not make the leader upgrade 8 pts - without the claws - as he could still be upgraded later? GW would not list leader + claws if he had access to it via upgrades like the other Wulfen.
GW aren't exactly brilliant at writing clear rules. My guess is they included the 2 claws automatically with the pack leader simply because the pack leader is a monopose model that comes with them
But the way I read it, he can take other weapons but will simply pay a premium.
Normally, I would totally agree with you. The way most lists work, it would say, in the Wargear, Close Combat Weapon, Claws (Pack Leader Only). Then, in the Options, it would read that they can upgrade to one of the following weapons, and a separate entry will say may upgrade 1 model to pack leader.
But here, the language seems to go the other way.
1. "May upgrade one Wufen to a Wulfen Pack Leader with two Frost Claws ... 20 pts"
2. "Any model may be equipped with one of the following options:" (axe / claws / THSS).
So if I turn into the rules lawyer, it would seem that the pack leader must have claws which excludes paying for another weapon (because he's only allowed one of the three). But realistically, if someone wanted a pack leader with a TH/SS, I certainly wouldn't make a fuss about it. I mean... whatever
Warhams-77 wrote: I'm still undecided. But why not make the leader upgrade 8 pts - without the claws - as he could still be upgraded later? GW would not list leader + claws if he had access to it via upgrades like the other Wulfen.
GW aren't exactly brilliant at writing clear rules. My guess is they included the 2 claws automatically with the pack leader simply because the pack leader is a monopose model that comes with them
But the way I read it, he can take other weapons but will simply pay a premium.
Normally, I would totally agree with you. The way most lists work, it would say, in the Wargear, Close Combat Weapon, Claws (Pack Leader Only). Then, in the Options, it would read that they can upgrade to one of the following weapons, and a separate entry will say may upgrade 1 model to pack leader.
But here, the language seems to go the other way.
1. "May upgrade one Wufen to a Wulfen Pack Leader with two Frost Claws ... 20 pts"
2. "Any model may be equipped with one of the following options:" (axe / claws / THSS).
So if I turn into the rules lawyer, it would seem that the pack leader must have claws which excludes paying for another weapon (because he's only allowed one of the three). But realistically, if someone wanted a pack leader with a TH/SS, I certainly wouldn't make a fuss about it. I mean... whatever
That is the way it is.
The Pack leader has claws. Period.
He can have the Grenade launcher because that does not have a qualifier.
The weapons though say that they can have ONE of the following. And then the Pack leader comes with the claws thus fulfilling the ONE qualifier.
That it is even in question is odd to me.
@BloodGrin - Right. It seems clear and unambiguous. The only thing strange is that most lists don't work this way. But... shrug... this one does... and the box probably comes with a model that's thus equipped anyhow
Besides, why would anyone pay the extra 20 points and toss the 12 points for the claws anyhow. Just take no pack leader and save the points >.<
Talys wrote: Besides, why would anyone pay the extra 20 points and toss the 12 points for the claws anyhow. Just take no pack leader and save the points >.<
Talys wrote: Besides, why would anyone pay the extra 20 points and toss the 12 points for the claws anyhow. Just take no pack leader and save the points >.<
Pack Leader has +1 A and +1 Ld.
Paying for one more attack is honestly a non issue and the +1 LD is good, but it depends what kind of HQ solutions that there are.
Bounding Leap as read affects the unit, not just models with this rule so a Wolf Priest or Wolf Lord WILL get the same movement.
Talys wrote: Besides, why would anyone pay the extra 20 points and toss the 12 points for the claws anyhow. Just take no pack leader and save the points >.<
Pack Leader has +1 A and +1 Ld.
Sure, but ATSKNF makes Ld less important, and it's a 20 point upgrade on a model that only costs 30 points. I mean, you could have 2 wulfen for 60 points instead of 1 pack leader for 50 points (discarding the claws). It just doesn't make any sense to me, but whatever, like I said, I'd be fine with someone who wanted to do that
Edit -- BloodGrin was quicker and yeah, depending on what HQ you match up to the squad, the LD is even less of an issue. My thing was just that paying 70 points total for a pack leader model with pack leader to get a stormshield on him sounds crazy expensive.
Ghaz wrote: Minus the twelve points you would normally pay for the pair of frost claws makes it an eight point upgrade.
But that's not what Skink is saying. He's saying, pay the 20 points to get the Pack Leader upgrade, throw away the claws, and pay the 20 points for the stormshield (or 8 points for the axe, I guess...).
So the model costs 30 points + 20 points + 20 points. To get +1 A and +1 LD.
Edit - I don't think anyone is trying to say that you can get a Pack Leader without claws (and a CC weapon) as an 8 point upgrade. I mean, clearly that's not an available option in the rules.
Ghaz wrote: The upgrade is for a "Wulfen Pack Leader armed with two frost claws", not a "Wulfen Pack Leader armed with..." any other weapon.
Right. Skink's point was that you could ALSO take another weapon, since it says "any model may take...". I just disagree, because it that option finishes with "one of the following", and the pack leader already has claws.
Lightning Masadon Cavalry
Space Viking Long Boats-oh right got those
and um...
OK I'm dry.
I predict a dreadnought with a cannon that shoots out full,grown Fenrisian Wolves and a giant axe taller than ten men.
Of course he himself will be riding a giant robotic wolf who is in turn dropped from a special storm talon formation with no scatter and the ability to assault the turn he arrives.
Yes, it does say "... any model may take..." However, you can't break any rules in doing so. 'Must' trumps 'may', and in this case the option for the Wulfen Pack Leader means he must be armed with the two frost claws.
Lightning Masadon Cavalry
Space Viking Long Boats-oh right got those
and um...
OK I'm dry.
I predict a dreadnought with a cannon that shoots out full,grown Fenrisian Wolves and a giant axe taller than ten men.
Of course he himself will be riding a giant robotic wolf who is in turn dropped from a special storm talon formation with no scatter and the ability to assault the turn he arrives.
AegisGrimm wrote: They are workable, I guess, but the fact that they have been granted gear that you would only see on veteran warriors like Wolf Guard really irks me. Not as much as being part of normal Space Wolf formations, but still doesn't sit right.
They were much better when they were marines too far gone to the Curse to even use weapons properly. The Thirteenth Company's great shame being used as a weapon against Chaos, because of their even greater-than normal resistance to the Ruinous Powers.
If I could justify the price, I could at least grow to like the Ice claws, if only because I would immediately paint them as steel claws, kind of like unpowered lightning claws being driven by their enhanced strength.
You could convert up some Wolf Guard and use them as counts-as Wulfen. Just say they are Wolf Guard Assault Veterans and call the 'Curse of the Wulfen' something like 'Inspiring Leadership' instead.
AegisGrimm wrote: They are workable, I guess, but the fact that they have been granted gear that you would only see on veteran warriors like Wolf Guard really irks me. Not as much as being part of normal Space Wolf formations, but still doesn't sit right.
They were much better when they were marines too far gone to the Curse to even use weapons properly. The Thirteenth Company's great shame being used as a weapon against Chaos, because of their even greater-than normal resistance to the Ruinous Powers.
If I could justify the price, I could at least grow to like the Ice claws, if only because I would immediately paint them as steel claws, kind of like unpowered lightning claws being driven by their enhanced strength.
You could convert up some Wolf Guard and use them as counts-as Wulfen. Just say they are Wolf Guard Assault Veterans and call the 'Curse of the Wulfen' something like 'Inspiring Leadership' instead.
Absolutely, and there are some great third party bits out there also for arms and heads and I think even affected but still armored legs.
Warhams-77 wrote: I'm still undecided. But why not make the leader upgrade 8 pts - without the claws - as he could still be upgraded later? GW would not list leader + claws if he had access to it via upgrades like the other Wulfen.
GW aren't exactly brilliant at writing clear rules. My guess is they included the 2 claws automatically with the pack leader simply because the pack leader is a monopose model that comes with them
But the way I read it, he can take other weapons but will simply pay a premium.
Normally, I would totally agree with you. The way most lists work, it would say, in the Wargear, Close Combat Weapon, Claws (Pack Leader Only). Then, in the Options, it would read that they can upgrade to one of the following weapons, and a separate entry will say may upgrade 1 model to pack leader.
But here, the language seems to go the other way.
1. "May upgrade one Wufen to a Wulfen Pack Leader with two Frost Claws ... 20 pts"
2. "Any model may be equipped with one of the following options:" (axe / claws / THSS).
So if I turn into the rules lawyer, it would seem that the pack leader must have claws which excludes paying for another weapon (because he's only allowed one of the three). But realistically, if someone wanted a pack leader with a TH/SS, I certainly wouldn't make a fuss about it. I mean... whatever
Perhaps you're right.
In the end I don't really care which way it works because I don't intend to take Wulfen and if I did and didn't want a model with claws I simply wouldn't take a Pack Leader at all....
I think it just further demonstrates how piss poor GW are at writing rules that you have to read between the lines to figure out how things work (you're reading between the lines that latter option overrides the former option when they could have just told you).
The english language can be ambiguous with multiple interpretations... assuming you don't know how to use it properly, which GW apparently don't (or they don't use a decent editor who should pick up on such things).
But either way, in the context of the Wulfen, I don't really care. The models are hideous and I've never liked the idea of elite packs of Wulfen running around anyway. I've always preferred the idea that the Curse of the Wulfen was, ya know, something to be controlled, something to be hidden. Otherwise an aspirant failing the test of Morkai wouldn't actually be a bad thing, at least not from the Chapter's perspective, it just means another slavering idiot to go pick out of the Asaheim wastelands to turn in to an elite strikeforce which causes the rest of the Company to fall in to the Curse of Wulfen as well.... terrible fluff if you ask me
I almost prefer the idea that Thunderwolves are failed aspirants... if GW didn't make it so other Space Wolves fething ride them in to battle Man GW sucks at writing compelling SW background.
Ghaz wrote: Yes, it does say "... any model may take..." However, you can't break any rules in doing so. 'Must' trumps 'may', and in this case the option for the Wulfen Pack Leader means he must be armed with the two frost claws.
And he is.
He also has another weapon option.
He can take one option in total from the list and also gains Frost Claws automatically when upgraded. The only way this would be the case would be if the Weapon List said 'Any Wulfen may...' or if the Pack Master option said 'Instead of choosing one of the above options, one Wulfen may be upgraded to a Wulfen Pack Master...', though that would also disallow him from taking the grenade launcher.
Ghaz wrote: Yes, it does say "... any model may take..." However, you can't break any rules in doing so. 'Must' trumps 'may', and in this case the option for the Wulfen Pack Leader means he must be armed with the two frost claws.
And he is.
He also has another weapon option.
He can take one option in total from the list and also gains Frost Claws automatically when upgraded. The only way this would be the case would be if the Weapon List said 'Any Wulfen may...' or if the Pack Master option said 'Instead of choosing one of the above options, one Wulfen may be upgraded to a Wulfen Pack Master...', though that would also disallow him from taking the grenade launcher.
No it does not affect the grenade launcher at all because it is not among the list.
Read it again, it is very clear.
Any model may take ONE weapon from this list. The list has three things, you get to choose. STOP.
The pack leader does not get to choose, his ONE weapon is assigned, hard coded. Just like a set Warlord trait or just like a set psychic ability. He has claws.
And actually the verbage makes it even more clear.
It says "Any model may be equippped with one of the three." Not may take one of the three . That says, If model does not have one of these three options ( Check to see if models have one of three options, if they do, then STOP if they do not then go to step 2) Equip one of the three options.
With the Pack Leader when it checks it says "hey, he has the claws" so again he does not get to choose.
Ghaz wrote: Yes, it does say "... any model may take..." However, you can't break any rules in doing so. 'Must' trumps 'may', and in this case the option for the Wulfen Pack Leader means he must be armed with the two frost claws.
And he is.
He also has another weapon option.
He can take one option in total from the list and also gains Frost Claws automatically when upgraded. The only way this would be the case would be if the Weapon List said 'Any Wulfen may...' or if the Pack Master option said 'Instead of choosing one of the above options, one Wulfen may be upgraded to a Wulfen Pack Master...', though that would also disallow him from taking the grenade launcher.
Then he's no longer a 'Wulfen Pack Leader armed with two frost claws'. He's a 'Wulfen Pack Leader armed with two frost claws and...'
The grenade launcher thing was to do with the wording that would stop the weapons being an option.
He has one hard-coded weapon. So what? It doesn't stop him from taking one of the options from the list because ANY models can take those. Already having claws doesn't stop him from taking ONE option as he hasn't taken an option from the list yet. Even if his weapon is on the list as an option he did not take it from that list, he got it from a separate option entirely.
He's already not a Wulfen Pack Leader aremed with two frost claws', he's a 'Wulfen Pack Leader armed with two frost claws and a close combat weapon'. Or as people are saying he can take the launcher and not the weapons from the list (for some reason...), he's be a 'Wulfen Pack Leader armed with two frost claws, a close combat weapon and a stormfrag auto-launcher'.
Matt.Kingsley wrote: The grenade launcher thing was to do with the wording that would stop the weapons being an option.
He has one hard-coded weapon. So what? It doesn't stop him from taking one of the options from the list because ANY models can take those. Already having claws doesn't stop him from taking ONE option as he hasn't taken an option from the list yet. Even if his weapon is on the list as an option he did not take it from that list, he got it from a separate option entirely.
He's already not a Wulfen Pack Leader aremed with two frost claws', he's a 'Wulfen Pack Leader armed with two frost claws and a close combat weapon'.
Or as people are saying he can take the launcher and not the weapons from the list (for some reason...), he's be a 'Wulfen Pack Leader armed with two frost claws, a close combat weapon and a stormfrag auto-launcher'.
It does not say models can take weapons from that list.
It says models can be equipped with ONE mweapon from that list. Not one or more.
When you buy the upgrade to pack master he comes with claws, thereby he is equipped with one weapon from that list.
The grenade launcher is not affected in any way at all, because it is not one of those three options.
It says 'Any model may be equipped with one of the following options:'
Then 'May upgrade one Wulfen to a Wulfen Pack Leader armed with two frost claws'
He has frost claws, but they weren't taken as one of the options from the list. He doesn't have 'one of the following options' because he hasn't taken any of them. He has two frost claws, but not the option 'two frost claws' from the list.
And Ghaz, why would an 'and' be needed? It's a list.
Ghaz wrote: Its a list he can't access. He has frost claws, not frost claws AND a choice from the list. That's why the 'and' is needed.
Correct, and if he did have Frost Claws and something from the list he would in fact have two things from the list thus breaking the rule that says they may be equipped with one.
Are Frost Claws on that list Matt?
If yes, then they are already equipped with one thing from that list.
However is is not armed with an option from the list just because he has frost claws.
Any model can access the list, so he can access it.
Unless you're saying a Chaos Space Marine Terminator Champion (or indeed, any CSM character in Terminator armour excluding a Sorcerer) can't be armed with 2 power weapons? The oldest codex has the exact same situation as this and no one has ever said they can't. They all have a power weapon by default and yet they have the following option:
'...can replace his combi-bolter with one of the following:
- Power weapon'
As they are already armed with a power sword you would argue that they can't take this option? Or that if they replace their power weapon with a lightning claw they can't replace their combi-bolter with a lightning claw (which is also an option)?
Would you say that all SM characters with 2 lightning claws are illegally armed? The list they purchase the lightning claws off says they may replace their 'bolt pistol and/or melee weapon with one of the following:
- Lightning claw...'.
However is is not armed with an option from the list just because he has frost claws.
Any model can access the list, so he can access it.
Unless you're saying a Chaos Space Marine Terminator Champion (or indeed, any CSM character in Terminator armour excluding a Sorcerer) can't be armed with 2 power weapons? The oldest codex has the exact same situation as this and no one has ever said they can't. They all have a power weapon by default and yet they have the following option:
'...can replace his combi-bolter with one of the following:
- Power weapon'
As they are already armed with a power sword you would argue that they can't take this option? Or that if they replace their power weapon with a lightning claw they can't replace their combi-bolter with a lightning claw (which is also an option)?
Would you say that all SM characters with 2 lightning claws are illegally armed? The list they purchase the lightning claws off says they may replace their 'bolt pistol and/or melee weapon with one of the following:
- Lightning claw...'.
Before I have to pull up my Chaos Codex from my OneDrive while I am at work, why do you not take a look and see if it says "May be equipped with one of the following" or if it says "May take any of the following, or may replace any of their equipment with.." or something else...
Because not going to lie, getting kind of silly now.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: I don't know how they pulled it off, but they look even worse in battle. It makes it look like they really are part of some dance troupe.
Those poses might actually be passable on some Wood Elf Wardancers.
Danzig in the warp? need to find a third party supplier for some instruments so we can turn them into space kiss!
AllSeeingSkink wrote: I don't know how they pulled it off, but they look even worse in battle. It makes it look like they really are part of some dance troupe.
Those poses might actually be passable on some Wood Elf Wardancers.
Danzig in the warp? need to find a third party supplier for some instruments so we can turn them into space kiss!
Well, it is a long way back from the Eye of Terror (and you don't want to go with them).
I'm just waiting for a size-comparison with FW Skin Wolves. If the size matches up, I'll just take the legs of one of these guys and then 40k up the torso of one of those bad boys.
That was clear they released Karlean for the BA and that etherial from Kauyon. Krom and Grukk should have been out a long time ago.
Absolutely. Though he will probably be released as a generic Wolf Lord and get a dataslate like Karlaen did, though they could also put his stats in the Warzone: Fenris book. Perhaps there will be two campaigns, like they did with Warzone: Damocles.
No, these pics are from issue 106, including the teaser. This is a painting teaser which is most likely just what is says about painting metal and fur in issue 107 There are no rumors about an Iron priest or other models except for a re-release of Krom and a new Ulrik/Wolf Priest model. Imo this will be a mixed 40k/AoS/FW preorder week also ending the releases for the campaign, with a chance (no rumors have appeared yet) for a second book set later this winter. And we could see more repacked SW kits next week like Skyclaws.
So quick question which I'm not sure (haven't seen in any case...) has been answered. It looks confirmed we're getting new formations for the companies, but possibly not a new codex. Do we know if, like the tau, we're getting an update at all? It would seem a travesty for GW not to use the opportunity to adjust out dreads etc. To be in line with codex marines/DA. Likewise are we getting a new detachment, or just formations to slot in with our current ones?
We dont know yet Better wait for WD issue 107 (the one after the Wulfen) for more infomation about further releases and the campaign book leaks inbetween.
They look like werewolves in power armor jeans shorts and tank tops... and I say that about the guy on the left that is my "favorite" of the bunch. My comments about the rest are less flattering.
So.. basically they are Good Guy Khorne Berzerkers, with more toys and better rules?
I'm just hoping they would pay CSM half the attention, there's so many cool things in the Chaos camp that could sell as well or better.
Warhams-77 wrote: No, these pics are from issue 106, including the teaser. This is a painting teaser which is most likely just what is says about painting metal and fur in issue 107 There are no rumors about an Iron priest or other models except for a re-release of Krom and a new Ulrik/Wolf Priest model. Imo this will be a mixed 40k/AoS/FW preorder week also ending the releases for the campaign, with a chance (no rumors have appeared yet) for a second book set later this winter. And we could see more repacked SW kits next week like Skyclaws.
Krom and Ulrik are fine too. But man, how did we survive so long without a painting guide for iron and fur... So difficult...
Cannot find the post but read earlier that people were thinking Ulrik would get the new hellfrost hammer. But from the image I've seen it seems really clear that he is equiped with a crozius (As I would want it to be should be added)
Lightning Masadon Cavalry
Space Viking Long Boats-oh right got those
and um...
OK I'm dry.
I predict a dreadnought with a cannon that shoots out full,grown Fenrisian Wolves and a giant axe taller than ten men.
Of course he himself will be riding a giant robotic wolf who is in turn dropped from a special storm talon formation with no scatter and the ability to assault the turn he arrives.
SlyasR wrote: Cannot find the post but read earlier that people were thinking Ulrik would get the new hellfrost hammer. But from the image I've seen it seems really clear that he is equiped with a crozius (As I would want it to be should be added)
I'm still hoping for Sternhammer, who would make the most sense given that he's a special character that comes standard with a Thunder Hammer (in prior rules) and he's the "Warden of the Lost" (i.e. - the Wulfen) and his special rules have always been to buff Wulfen.
I believe he already has at least a limited edition model from years back, but no mention of his release (when they mentioned a bunch of other Space Wolf releases) makes this seem doubtful. It may just be that the Helfrost pistol and Tempest Hammer end up being new wargear.
SlyasR wrote: Cannot find the post but read earlier that people were thinking Ulrik would get the new hellfrost hammer. But from the image I've seen it seems really clear that he is equiped with a crozius (As I would want it to be should be added)
I'm still hoping for Sternhammer, who would make the most sense given that he's a special character that comes standard with a Thunder Hammer (in prior rules) and he's the "Warden of the Lost" (i.e. - the Wulfen) and his special rules have always been to buff Wulfen.
I believe he already has at least a limited edition model from years back, but no mention of his release (when they mentioned a bunch of other Space Wolf releases) makes this seem doubtful. It may just be that the Helfrost pistol and Tempest Hammer end up being new wargear.
He was a Games Day/Event exclusive model when The Eye of Terror event was going on. His rules also apparently came with him.
Normally I'd complain that Chaos got forgotten again but since i'm intending on using SW rules for my Khorne Chaos boyz, I am a happy sponge (these would be perfect for Wrathmongers).
Im still not quite sure why everyone seems to think the Wulfen are so OP. Wraiths are quicker, cost less with their invul save, rend, have toughness 5 (so they arent instant killed by str 8 shots) and get their improved FNP roll- no one says they are broken. When they were t4 certainly nobody did, because weight of fire str8 shots just got rid of them. Wulfen have some fancier rules but they aren't as durable. People think they are just going to put 2 storm shields on the front models, if so, you wont have any thunderhammers get into combat, actually without the 3+ invul, you probably wont have any models get into combat. If zero wulfen make it into close combat, double their attacks still equates to 0. If you fill out a squad of 5 with a leader and 4 storm shields you might make it into combat with 1 or 2 if they enemy doesnt really care about letting you make it and that is a squad that costs over 250 with the grenade launchers. If chaos players think these guys are going to be their saving grace, they will be sorely disappointed. However, that all comes down to how you play the game. The whole attach Samuel to the squad, with TWL attached and string the whole unit along in my opinion isn't really what was intended with the unit, of course 40k now is more like Magic the Gathering or Warmachine where people want the game over by turn 2-3, I'd prefer a game that comes down to the wire on turn 5 or 6.
I think the main complaint isn't that they're OP, but rather how much more useful they are than other melee choices in other codices on top of Space Wolves already being overly favorited by GW.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I think the main complaint isn't that they're OP, but rather how much more useful they are than other melee choices in other codices on top of Space Wolves already being overly favorited by GW.
Really.... space wolves are an overly favored faction?
They had, like... ONE... really great unit. I mean, every single winning SW army was loaded with TWC. Now, they have.... TWO!
Compare that with the "favored" factions -- you know which ones I mean -- there are a bookful of units which are really useful and permit different playstyles and combinations without being embarrassingly handicapped. I mean, I'm not saying wolves were horrible or anything, but I really wouldn't say that they have been a GW favorite since their latest codex.
Wolf Guard Terminators in 2nd...Grey Hunters being Tacticals+2 at a bargain points value..Long Fangs essentially ruling 5th...TWC always being awesome..
Azreal13 wrote: Wolf Guard Terminators in 2nd...Grey Hunters being Tacticals+2 at a bargain points value..Long Fangs essentially ruling 5th...TWC always being awesome..
Yeah, SW have always been well looked after.
But... we're a ways off from 5th now and decades removed from 2nd Once upon a time Adeptus Custodes with webbers were a thing too.
That's like saying that Grey Knights are a favored faction -- which would be sort of true in the long-term, macro view of the game (they've risen to or near the top here and there), and quasi-true right now as they have some decent models, but they're not remotely comparable to the factions that GW always gives its love to.
I think that Wolves and GK represent the minimumGW should do for a faction. Generally speaking, the factions treated worse than SW and GK are the ones that you constantly hear moaning about being underpowered; the factions consistently treated better are the ones you constantly hear about being overpowered.
The threshold for a favored faction shouldn't be, "Yeah, they usually have one decent build for peeps that want to be competitive" -- it should be, "they have a few great builds for peeps who want to be competitive, and lots of fun builds that aren't horribly underpowered"
Azreal13 wrote: Wolf Guard Terminators in 2nd...Grey Hunters being Tacticals+2 at a bargain points value..Long Fangs essentially ruling 5th...TWC always being awesome..
Yeah, SW have always been well looked after.
I'm still not really sure I'd call SW "favourited" so much as "a one trick pony army as a result of GW's inability to see the value of certain units".
I'd suggest most people who have been long time SW players over the decades would have preferred SW to be an internally balanced army rather than a "SW are middle to top tier but only if you spam XXXX unit" army, where XXXX just changes from one edition to the next.
That's pretty much a summary of all the factions though, either at certain times or perhaps always, a competitive, well balanced both internally and externally, codex is a rare thing indeed, and it isn't just something SW players would prefer.
Azreal13 wrote: That's pretty much a summary of all the factions though, either at certain times or perhaps always, a competitive, well balanced both internally and externally, codex is a rare thing indeed, and it isn't just something SW players would prefer.
Which is largely my point, SW aren't "favourited" they are just "randomly one trick pony army".
They might have been lucky that they have almost always had a trick they can pull, but I'd call it luck more than anything. Favouritism would have been a balanced codex with multiple decent builds, not Blood Claws being blatantly underpowered next to GH for almost a decade.
Azreal13 wrote: Wolf Guard Terminators in 2nd...Grey Hunters being Tacticals+2 at a bargain points value..Long Fangs essentially ruling 5th...TWC always being awesome..
Yeah, SW have always been well looked after.
I wouldnt say that. SW had the first codex of 2nd, and GW botched the assault cannon rule, so all terminators could have one. Clearly it wasnt intentional and went overlooked- otherwise, their codex wasnt better than the rest, Eldar were plenty good in 2nd, as were some other builds. GH have spent as much time in history being overcosted as they have a bargain. Currently in the shooting game, I believe them to be overcosted. You have acute senses which is useless as they dont have outflank and counter attack isn't much use if you are shot- which is what most armies are going to do to you. 3rd edition they were vastly overpriced at 18pts a model- which is why you didnt see many SW armies at all (they never got a 4th edition codex).
So 5th comes around- yeah, GH were good. LF were good. TWC were good- it made an overpowered codex at the time. That lasted 2 years and since then they have been middle of the pack, if you take out TWC they are definitely lower tier.
Their psychic powers are as bad as chaos. Their warlord traits- you're better off taking one of the generic in the rule book and their formations are underwhelming, certainly nothing like Tau, Eldar, SM, DA, Necron or KDK.
So GW gave them a unit of wulfen- are they fluffy- yes. Would they be great in shooting armies, perhaps, but SW dont shoot much anymore. In a normal SW list, TWC are arguably better. Frankly we didnt need another close combat unit, we needed our dreads put in line, and blood claws raised to WS4, and our scouts made to be useful again (actually any part of our codex other than TWC and Iron Priests). I and I would say many SW players were just hoping to gain some ground on the rest of our codex, rather than get another melee unit in a shooting environment. And I wasn't looking for OP units, I was looking for other units in the codex to be useful.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I think the main complaint isn't that they're OP, but rather how much more useful they are than other melee choices in other codices on top of Space Wolves already being overly favorited by GW.
exactly, they may not be overpowered considering the emphasis on shooting. But they are OP compared to other elite CC troops. So, instead of making a rule that would benefit all CC units (for example, make cover save independent from other saves), they boost specific troops (just like they did with they lychguards and flayed ones). It wouldn't be necessarily bad if GW were consistent codex to codex, as all cc units would be boosted in their new codex, but it'S not the case. A lot of the time, it seems they are done by different group who have 0 interaction with each others (example, see removing cybork bodies options for Nobz)
Imo, it's really the frost claws who's out of this realm and the, "they can attack again if killed" shouldn't work on I.D. and D weapon. What worries me even more is that we didn't see what formations bonus they can benefit from yet :s Imagine if it's something even half as good as the Decurion detachment
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I think the main complaint isn't that they're OP, but rather how much more useful they are than other melee choices in other codices on top of Space Wolves already being overly favorited by GW.
Really.... space wolves are an overly favored faction?
Absole-fething-lutely.
1. You thought Ultramarines and Grey Knights were Mary Sues in the fluff? Space Wolves are even worse in this regard. They defy the Inquisition because. They say they don't use Librarians and do so anyway with nonlogic (even for the setting) because. Grimnar isn't a Psyker or anything and yet uses an axe he got from a Chaos dude without being corrupted because.
2. They get more model releases than the other Marine factions. Blood Angels have Death Company, Sanguine Guard, and a couple of Dreads. Dark Angels have a couple of Biker and Terminator kits that function differently for their models. Space Wolves get Blood Claws, a couple of Dreads, Grey Hunters, their wolf stuff, their own Stormraven, and the upcoming 13th company stuff.
3. They get more special-snowflake good rules. You're on the money regarding internal balance, but external balance is STUPID. I only know the 5th and 7th codices, but based off that we can make the following observations. With the 5th edition codex, we had Grey Hunters, which were what people mean when they complain about Tactical Marines being great. They had a melee weapon for only 1 point, and got their Special Weapons for cheaper. Long Fangs carried more Heavy Weapons and for cheaper than their Devastator counterparts. It was harder to kill these shooty units in melee because they had Counter Attack, and their Power Weapons were better. Plus your generic HQ could easily obtain EW from that Saga or whatever.
7th toned this down but not by a lot. Grey Hunters are still better than Tactical Marines outside the Gladius (where you're only taking them for the free vehicles, not their rules), Thunderwolf Calvary now got even better, and their Power Weapons are still better. The main thing keeping them in check against the vanilla codex is easy access to Grav via Bikers and Centurions.
Azreal13 wrote: Wolf Guard Terminators in 2nd...Grey Hunters being Tacticals+2 at a bargain points value..Long Fangs essentially ruling 5th...TWC always being awesome..
Yeah, SW have always been well looked after.
I wouldnt say that. SW had the first codex of 2nd, and GW botched the assault cannon rule, so all terminators could have one. Clearly it wasnt intentional and went overlooked- otherwise, their codex wasnt better than the rest, Eldar were plenty good in 2nd, as were some other builds. GH have spent as much time in history being overcosted as they have a bargain. Currently in the shooting game, I believe them to be overcosted. You have acute senses which is useless as they dont have outflank and counter attack isn't much use if you are shot- which is what most armies are going to do to you. 3rd edition they were vastly overpriced at 18pts a model- which is why you didnt see many SW armies at all (they never got a 4th edition codex).
So 5th comes around- yeah, GH were good. LF were good. TWC were good- it made an overpowered codex at the time. That lasted 2 years and since then they have been middle of the pack, if you take out TWC they are definitely lower tier.
Their psychic powers are as bad as chaos. Their warlord traits- you're better off taking one of the generic in the rule book and their formations are underwhelming, certainly nothing like Tau, Eldar, SM, DA, Necron or KDK.
So GW gave them a unit of wulfen- are they fluffy- yes. Would they be great in shooting armies, perhaps, but SW dont shoot much anymore. In a normal SW list, TWC are arguably better. Frankly we didnt need another close combat unit, we needed our dreads put in line, and blood claws raised to WS4, and our scouts made to be useful again (actually any part of our codex other than TWC and Iron Priests). I and I would say many SW players were just hoping to gain some ground on the rest of our codex, rather than get another melee unit in a shooting environment. And I wasn't looking for OP units, I was looking for other units in the codex to be useful.
THey might be, more likely than not, SW will have a super detachment in the new book.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: 2. They get more model releases than the other Marine factions. Blood Angels have Death Company, Sanguine Guard, and a couple of Dreads. Dark Angels have a couple of Biker and Terminator kits that function differently for their models. Space Wolves get Blood Claws, a couple of Dreads, Grey Hunters, their wolf stuff, their own Stormraven, and the upcoming 13th company stuff.
Well, firstly, from their inception SW have always been more visually distinctive which naturally means they get more kits (in the early days at least). When DA got more visually distinctive they also got some unique kits (though IMO not for the better )
Secondly, your list is silly. Blood Angels get... BA Tactical Squad BA Terminator Assault Squad Baal Pred Dreadnought (makes Furioso, Lib Dread, DC Dread) Death Company Sang. Guard. Assorted Character models (several plastics)
Space Wolves get... Space Wolf boxed set (makes Grey Hunters, Blood Claws and Wolf Guard, so don't try and treat them separately) WG Terminator squad TWC Fenrisian Wolves Dreadnought (makes Venerable, Bjorn and Murderface) Stormwolf/Stormfang Assorted characters (all metal except Logan Claus)
They also had Long Fangs and Skyclaws, but I don't think you can count those separately because they're the same sprue from the regular SW boxed set combined with a regular Devastator/Assault Marine sprue. They're kit bashes, not unique kits.
So they're actually pretty much even on unique plastics prior to these hideous Wulfen models, SW have Logan Claus but no other plastic characters which BA have.
At the start of 3rd edition SW had 2 years without any codex and then got their 3rd edition codex which they had for a decade. GW weren't really paying any special attention to SW for all those years.
3. They get more special-snowflake good rules.
Since 1994 SW have had a different structure to regular SM. Not like many other chapters that have the same structure with some additions. Why did GW make it that way? I dunno, but it's been 22 fething years, get over it.
Most of the areas SW are better/worse than regular SM just come from GW's piss poor rules writing, not favouritism. Otherwise we would have gotten Stormravens, Centurions, Grav weapons, etc in addition to the special SW stuff rather than substituted for them.
It is not providing anything new (to us) but the official announcement was posted this morning
Friday 05 February 2016
White Dwarf 106
This week, White Dwarf is brimming with Space Wolves – we bring you the Wulfen, proud and savage warriors whose bodies and minds have succumbed to the effects of the Canis Helix, mutated and twisted into a bizarre combination of elite genetically engineered superhuman and feral, bitesome wolf. Loping into battle with fierce predatory instincts and sharpened claws, they hack and rend and snarl with unabated fury. White Dwarf 106 is out tomorrow in Games Workshop stores, independent stockists and right here on the Games Workshop web store.
Also in this issue:
• A complete stage-by-stage painting guide for the Wulfen in Paint Splatter.
• A lingering look at the incredible artwork to be found in War Zone Fenris: Curse of the Wulfen.
• We induct another classic Citadel miniature into the Hall of Fame – it’s an old/new favourite…
• Rules for the Space Wolves Wulfen.
• The Week in White Dwarf extols the virtues of the Wolf Lords, and has a look at a Mastodon’s innards. Yes, really.
Mymearan wrote: Well that's a scoop for dakka indeed! Very cool new characters, love the Iron Priest.
I consider it funny that people like Atia who complained about SpikeyBits not crediting her properly are also not crediting others at all - like now and several times before on B&C
I guess the Tempest Hammer and Helfrost Pistol are Iron Priest items rather than new items for Ulrik like some people were thinking.
Nevelon wrote:I like the techmarine, chaplain not so much.
I'd like to see Ulrik better before I say too much, at this point I don't like his pose, but maybe if I see a 360 I might like it more.
Kanluwen wrote:For the love of...
Really? Space Wolves get a plastic Techmarine before they release a vanilla Techmarine in plastic!
Well Space Wolves needed a new Iron Priest, the old model is well over 20 years old.
I hope the rumours of Krom coming back are true, I really liked that model but missed out on the kit and there's no way I'm paying crazy ebay prices for him.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: I guess the Tempest Hammer and Helfrost Pistol are Iron Priest items rather than new items for Ulrik like some people were thinking.
Nevelon wrote:I like the techmarine, chaplain not so much.
I'd like to see Ulrik better before I say too much, at this point I don't like his pose, but maybe if I see a 360 I might like it more.
I really like Ulrik's pose. He is a nice blend of lordly and (for lack of a better term) inspiring presence.
Kanluwen wrote:For the love of...
Really? Space Wolves get a plastic Techmarine before they release a vanilla Techmarine in plastic!
Well Space Wolves needed a new Iron Priest, the old model is well over 20 years old.
I know...I'm just kinda bummed that they shafted my Raven Guard out of a Relic Jump Pack model by releasing that BA Chaplain, and when I'm looking at getting a Techmarine the Wolves get a super special one.
I hope the rumours of Krom coming back are true, I really liked that model but missed out on the kit and there's no way I'm paying crazy ebay prices for him.
Watch, BA will get their own plastic Techmarine covered in blood drops and whatnot. And SM will have to wait. Because it already happened with the Termy Librarian. And a Chaplain (the RCS Chappy doesn't count imo).
Mymearan wrote: Well that's a scoop for dakka indeed! Very cool new characters, love the Iron Priest.
I consider it funny that people like Atia who complained about SpikeyBits not crediting her properly are also not crediting others at all - like now and several times before on B&C
Yes, after I read your comment on War of Sigmar I saw he had most likely not credited it. I don't visit FB. Your post and the guy's on the other SW topic on B&C popped up after mine here and on the german GW-Fanworld. I have all these topics opened all day.
It is not a biggie, but it happens a lot after we post stuff (including WD leaks) here the stuff pops up on B&C without any reference.
I always credit where I get it from - using via if I'm not sure who it came from first. In case of WD leaks it helps finding the original source and circumventing the piece by piece posts on BOLS and Spikeybits.
That new Iron Priest might just be the model that makes me break my oath to never buy one of these stupidly over priced clam shells...
Oh well, I guess it's okay to splurge a bit when I only want around 2k of Wolves to go on display against god knows how many pts worth of Chaos goodness!
Damn, chaplains are my favourite 40k character, was so pumped for Ulrik. Hype deflated. I am not really a fan of the stance especially since chaplains lead from the front, inspire troops to acts of greatness on the frontline. Really would have loved Ulrik being in a pose to represent that, even just his old model re-done in plastic would be perfect.
I am just not a fan of him holding his helmet and I hate that geezer head. I know he is old, but that was why I enjoyed the helmet as it helped me forget lol. Nothing technically bad with the model though, both are awesome execution, just a miss on capturing a specific heroes presence IMO.
The, almost 25 year old, Ulrik model is more dynamic than this resculpt. That's so odd. I don't hate it, it's just a really static pose which doesn't meld too well with the flowing cape. The Iron Priest looks pretty nice though.
unmercifulconker wrote:Damn, chaplains are my favourite 40k character, was so pumped for Ulrik. Hype deflated. I am not really a fan of the stance especially since chaplains lead from the front, inspire troops to acts of greatness on the frontline. Really would have loved Ulrik being in a pose to represent that, even just his old model re-done in plastic would be perfect.
Red Corsair wrote:He is definitely rocking an Odin vibe, thats for sure.
If he was a captain, or a librarian, I could get behind the “standing around” pose. He does look epic and regal, standing on a clifftop, cape blowing in the icy wind. But that’s not chaplains, or Space Wolves in general. He should be mixing it up, action pose.
I’m reminded of someone’s comment about the old 2nd edition bolter huggers. "The look great, standing at attention, lined up on my shelf. That’s where they are going to be spending most of their time anyway” He strikes me the same way. He’ll look great standing on a shelf, or as part of a scenic diorama, mustering the troops. But on the actual battlefield, the pose is completely off from what the character should be. It’s jarring.
unmercifulconker wrote:Damn, chaplains are my favourite 40k character, was so pumped for Ulrik. Hype deflated. I am not really a fan of the stance especially since chaplains lead from the front, inspire troops to acts of greatness on the frontline. Really would have loved Ulrik being in a pose to represent that, even just his old model re-done in plastic would be perfect.
Red Corsair wrote:He is definitely rocking an Odin vibe, thats for sure.
If he was a captain, or a librarian, I could get behind the “standing around” pose. He does look epic and regal, standing on a clifftop, cape blowing in the icy wind. But that’s not chaplains, or Space Wolves in general. He should be mixing it up, action pose.
I’m reminded of someone’s comment about the old 2nd edition bolter huggers. "The look great, standing at attention, lined up on my shelf. That’s where they are going to be spending most of their time anyway” He strikes me the same way. He’ll look great standing on a shelf, or as part of a scenic diorama, mustering the troops. But on the actual battlefield, the pose is completely off from what the character should be. It’s jarring.
Not every Chaplain is going to be shouting "BLOOD FOR THE EMPEROR! GOLDEN SKULLS FOR THE GOLDEN THRONE!". They tend to the Chapter's spirit as well as its fury.
The Space Wolves spirit is their fury. Ulrik should be smashing a chaos over the head with his helmet, frothing at the mouth, give me that chaplain spirit.
unmercifulconker wrote: The Space Wolves spirit is their fury. Ulrik should be smashing a chaos over the head with his helmet, frothing at the mouth, give me that chaplain spirit.
But then his name would be Ulrik the Slayer ... wait ... oh ....
unmercifulconker wrote: The Space Wolves spirit is their fury. Ulrik should be smashing a chaos over the head with his helmet, frothing at the mouth, give me that chaplain spirit.
Heh, I saw a memepic the other day:
"I don’t know what my spirit animal is, but I’m pretty sure it has rabies"
One of the things that I'd like you to think about with Ulrik is that he looks pretty unique like that, I mean in the sense that he's a Space Wolf that's actually not a pose of action. I know, I know, not in character, but still. You can't tell me that that's a terrible pose. He looks great.
EDIT: Also, apparently he hangs out with shooting units enough for this to be validated.
Nevelon wrote: If he was a captain, or a librarian, I could get behind the “standing around” pose. He does look epic and regal, standing on a clifftop, cape blowing in the icy wind. But that’s not chaplains, or Space Wolves in general. He should be mixing it up, action pose.
I can see Wolf Priests being in either an actiony pose or a more sedate pose. I'm not really sure why a Wolf Priest would be any less regal than Wolf Lords or Rune Priests. In general Wolf Priests are some of the most venerated figures within the SW hierarchy. Ulrik specifically is known as being aggressive, but he's also the oldest living Space Wolf, so I could see him being calm before entering a battle or in a dynamic pose.
But I personally don't care for dynamic poses on my more important characters. There's a million and one models "shooting off in to the distance" or "swinging at invisible enemy", I think those poses are better suited to squad leaders rather than the focal point characters, who I usually imagine as being steady from their vast experience in war up until the moment the enemy is face to face.
All that said, I don't know if I like Ulrik yet. I need a better picture. Something looks off about his stance and proportions, but it might just be the small photo at a weird angle.
Really? Space Wolves get a plastic Techmarine before they release a vanilla Techmarine in plastic!
Space Wolves got a plastic Thousand Son before Chaos. So there's that. Still kind of rageworthy that they've moved on to releasing plastic SM special characters while other armies' basic unit choices languish in the ancient realm of Finecrapia.
On the other hand the new Ulrik is a total boss. So I guess I forgive them.
Quarterdime wrote:One of the things that I'd like you to think about with Ulrik is that he looks pretty unique like that, I mean in the sense that he's a Space Wolf that's actually not a pose of action. I know, I know, not in character, but still. You can't tell me that that's a terrible pose. He looks great.
EDIT: Also, apparently he hangs out with shooting units enough for this to be validated.
AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Nevelon wrote: If he was a captain, or a librarian, I could get behind the “standing around” pose. He does look epic and regal, standing on a clifftop, cape blowing in the icy wind. But that’s not chaplains, or Space Wolves in general. He should be mixing it up, action pose.
I can see Wolf Priests being in either an actiony pose or a more sedate pose. I'm not really sure why a Wolf Priest would be any less regal than Wolf Lords or Rune Priests. In general Wolf Priests are some of the most venerated figures within the SW hierarchy. Ulrik specifically is known as being aggressive, but he's also the oldest living Space Wolf, so I could see him being calm before entering a battle or in a dynamic pose.
But I personally don't care for dynamic poses on my more important characters. There's a million and one models "shooting off in to the distance" or "swinging at invisible enemy", I think those poses are better suited to squad leaders rather than the focal point characters, who I usually imagine as being steady from their vast experience in war up until the moment the enemy is face to face.
All that said, I don't know if I like Ulrik yet. I need a better picture. Something looks off about his stance and proportions, but it might just be the small photo at a weird angle.
I think he might be a mini I like more with better pictures. It’s not that he’s bad, just something doesn’t quite “click” for me. More detail shots might help.
I really don't. Now, a generic Wolf Priest looking like that would be fine. I can imagine some are old, regal, wise and patient like that...
But Ulrik...I preferred him with his helm on. I preferred that sense of menace from his face remaining hidden. This is a guy who won the respect of the World Eaters after all for his prowess. The whole fancy chap vibe just...doesn't sit right with me.
Abadabadoobaddon wrote: Still kind of rageworthy that they've moved on to releasing plastic SM special characters while other armies' basic unit choices languish in the ancient realm of Finecrapia.
I don't know why people would find it rageworthy any more than any other army getting plastics before you.
The Space Wolf special characters are some of the oldest models still in production. I'm struggling to think of anything much older, maybe the wolves that goblin wolf riders are mounted on (the goblins themselves are newer, but the wolves are old). Other than that I'm struggling to think of much else, they go back to the early 90's.
Yeah not dissing the model, great sculpt, I would buy if you could have Ulrik wearing his helmet so I could put a pointing left arm on him so it looks like hes choosing his next target.
Edit: Reminds me of a Dwarf Thane, couldn't think of what the model reminded me of and it just clicked.
Not every Chaplain is going to be shouting "BLOOD FOR THE EMPEROR! GOLDEN SKULLS FOR THE GOLDEN THRONE!". They tend to the Chapter's spirit as well as its fury.
Not every Chaplain has won respect from the fething World Eaters.
Really? Space Wolves get a plastic Techmarine before they release a vanilla Techmarine in plastic!
And he's probably going to cost a mint as well.
Plastic Tech-Priest? Only with a Russ.
Plastic Tech-Marine? NOPE!
I would hope if they release a plastic techmarine he'd be in a box with servitors and/or thunderfire cannon. Or maybe a rapier/thunderfire dual kit? That'd be awesome if SM got rapiers. Then FW wouldn't need rules for them anymore.
Ulrik is fine, his pose might not be what we expected but I think people are forgetting that Wolf Priests are essentially both Chaplains and Apothecaries for the Space Wolves. Considering he is the oldest living Space Wolf and one of their most venerated leaders, there's nothing wrong with the pose; it's actually nice to have a model with a more static kind of position to contrast the more chaotic Wulfen poses.
The Iron Priest is fantastic, absolutely no doubt about that. It's unusual that a plastic Iron Priest comes out before a plastic Techmarine for any other Adeptus Astartes codex but, eh, what can you do. I'm sure people will figure out how to convert the Iron Priest for their own Chapters in minutes anyway.
Very curious to see if there's another week of Space Wolves, beyond February there's actually very little real knowledge of what is coming which is very unusual; normally we would have a rough idea of what is coming in the next month (March) by now....
@Atia, any ideas or leads would be greatly appreciated Thanks for sharing the pictures by the way!
I quite like the Ulrik model. Its weird but I actually really like the static pose he has. He is considered the sage leader of the space wolfs, a model of contained power and intellect. I really feel like this model captures it very well. The words that come to mind are grace and dignity. A true silverback as it were.
We will have to see if there are arm options for putting his helmet on his head and something else with the mace, but even then I still quite like it.
But Ulrik...I preferred him with his helm on. I preferred that sense of menace from his face remaining hidden. This is a guy who won the respect of the World Eaters after all for his prowess. The whole fancy chap vibe just...doesn't sit right with me.
Really? Space Wolves get a plastic Techmarine before they release a vanilla Techmarine in plastic!
And he's probably going to cost a mint as well.
Plastic Tech-Priest? Only with a Russ.
Plastic Tech-Marine? NOPE!
I would hope if they release a plastic techmarine he'd be in a box with servitors and/or thunderfire cannon. Or maybe a rapier/thunderfire dual kit? That'd be awesome if SM got rapiers. Then FW wouldn't need rules for them anymore.
Really? Space Wolves get a plastic Techmarine before they release a vanilla Techmarine in plastic!
And he's probably going to cost a mint as well.
Plastic Tech-Priest? Only with a Russ.
Plastic Tech-Marine? NOPE!
I would hope if they release a plastic techmarine he'd be in a box with servitors and/or thunderfire cannon. Or maybe a rapier/thunderfire dual kit? That'd be awesome if SM got rapiers. Then FW wouldn't need rules for them anymore.
SM can have Rapiers when my Cadians get them too.
And Imperials can wait in line for once and let Chaos have some toys of their own for a change!
"Dynamic" doesn't need to mean waving his Crozius Arcanum and shouting. "Dynamic" models should tell a story when you look at them.
It's not hard to envision Ulrik taking a measure of his foe while the tempests called forth by the Rune Priests snap his cloak like a whip.
It's not that simple, nice try though. He is a technically lovely model but worse as Ulrik. I mean IMO he isn't even a space marine. If someone posted him in an AoS thread as a Kilsev Wolf priest or whatever, no one would bat an eye.
I also haven't seen anyone bash that amazing iron priest so try to be fair.
I think it is fine to say he is a lovely sculpt, but misses the target when capturing the essence of Ulrik.
what essence did they miss exactly, the artwork; the same old pose 20+ years ago?
It's alright some change of pace once in a while. Reflects on the dwarf lord, master of arsenal, and captain sicarius
Not buying those Clampack rumors. The "3 pairs of arms, two legs" blurbs are conflated from the Wulfen sprue comments I read elsewhere. The Ulrik is pretty tightly posed, there are NOT a lot of arm options. Maybe (MAYBE) he has a helmet option.
I'd love to be wrong, mind you. But the rumor overlap is STRONG here.
I wanted Ulrik to be more action posed, but I do believe that he is a good looking model. He is going to look odd on the battlefield, but in isolation, he looks pretty great. Need to see a few more angles, but he has grown a lot on me today.
It is from Natfka and the different 'poses' (feet?) are for the Wulfen kit
via anonymous sources on Faeit 212
I was looking through the new WD yesterday at my local GW and checking out the new stuff. (Manager lets me go in the back and see the new stuff!).
I also found out about the Krom clamshell, Ulrik clamshell and apparently we're getting a new codex/cards akin to the Tau treatment after Kauyon... And an Iron Priest!!!
I can't confirm the Iron Priest, but apparently it filtered down from GWHQ.
The Long Fangs are the same but with bigger bases. The rest, I.E. Grey Hunters is just a cosmetic re-package I believe.
The new WD had everything about the Wulfen and it appears there is 5 sets of every load out in the box! Claws, Axes, Hammers, Shields, Launchers etc.
There are TWO unique poses for every model! Including the leader! As there are two sets of feet/ankles and two heads for every body! Which gives crazy amounts of pose-ability! Obviously, there is 3 sets of arms per model as well!! This is 100% fact as I've seen it myself in WD.
Not even salt I can almost guarantee that's straight up bullcrap. When was the last time they had 5 loadouts per weapon per box? Two poses per model? That's enough bits to make almost 10 dudes, and GW would not do that in the slightest.
Ulrik looks good to me. I can't recall that many stationary at-rest chaplains, so this is a nice pose IMO. The Ironpriest looks to be the overall best miniatures of this release.
Those Wulfen still look like they belong in AOS, there isn't any saving them.
I dont get why they have split the space wolves box into different kits like that. Surely the wolf guard box (5 man) should cost just half of the 10 man box.
I love both of the new models. Ulrik is fantastic, and he is very much a space marine with Wolves adornments. I mean, look at his greaves and boots, his crozius, the reticle. From the rear, which we can't see, there is probably a PA backpack.
The tech priest is awesome too. A fantastic Mk4 Space Wolves sculpt that does an amazing job of combining techmarine elements with Space Wolves elements.
Will definitely buy both, though really for the painting/modelling aspects than anything else.
Counter-Charge: HOLY BUTTS THAT'S NICE. Basically you're forced to multicharge SW units or they get to get in at you. Daaaang.
Howl of Wolves: Fear and Furious Charge. The former is meh, the latter is quite nice, but it's not quite the Battle Company bonus for taking two Core detachments.
Requizen wrote: Counter-Charge: HOLY BUTTS THAT'S NICE. Basically you're forced to multicharge SW units or they get to get in at you. Daaaang.
Howl of Wolves: Fear and Furious Charge. The former is meh, the latter is quite nice, but it's not quite the Battle Company bonus for taking two Core detachments.
QFT
Automatically Appended Next Post:
SlyasR wrote: I will have high hopes for the blackmanes formation , it could be a chance to field Ragnar (fingers crossed)
Looks like he can be taken in place of the wolf lord. Looks like there is a little 3 there and when you look to the right, it looks like it says "or ragnar"
Requizen wrote: Counter-Charge: HOLY BUTTS THAT'S NICE. Basically you're forced to multicharge SW units or they get to get in at you. Daaaang.
Howl of Wolves: Fear and Furious Charge. The former is meh, the latter is quite nice, but it's not quite the Battle Company bonus for taking two Core detachments.
God dammit! Yet ANOTHER Chaos perk that freaking Loyalists get to steal, and do 100x better than we do!
And the Exalted Flamer still can't take any Gifts when not on his Chariot?
Yep, this is going to be pointless for Daemons.
Requizen wrote: Counter-Charge: HOLY BUTTS THAT'S NICE. Basically you're forced to multicharge SW units or they get to get in at you. Daaaang.
Howl of Wolves: Fear and Furious Charge. The former is meh, the latter is quite nice, but it's not quite the Battle Company bonus for taking two Core detachments.
God dammit! Yet ANOTHER Chaos perk that freaking Loyalists get to steal, and do 100x better than we do!
And the Exalted Flamer still can't take any Gifts when not on his Chariot?
Yep, this is going to be pointless for Daemons.
We haven't seen even the makeup of more than 2 formations for Daemons, nor the Detachment bonus or anything else. I don't think it's that bad.
What a joke! Fear and Furious Charge instead of 8 free transports?!?
That counter charge is also VERY situational and to get it you lose all flexibility in list building. It's not possible to take a single tank or priest or dread. How many points do they think we are playing? It's nearly as craptastic as the Cadian one.
Let's see what the legendary greatpacks bring but I guess I'll stick to CAD or champions.
Requizen wrote: Counter-Charge: HOLY BUTTS THAT'S NICE. Basically you're forced to multicharge SW units or they get to get in at you. Daaaang.
Howl of Wolves: Fear and Furious Charge. The former is meh, the latter is quite nice, but it's not quite the Battle Company bonus for taking two Core detachments.
God dammit! Yet ANOTHER Chaos perk that freaking Loyalists get to steal, and do 100x better than we do!
And the Exalted Flamer still can't take any Gifts when not on his Chariot?
Yep, this is going to be pointless for Daemons.
We haven't seen even the makeup of more than 2 formations for Daemons, nor the Detachment bonus or anything else. I don't think it's that bad.
If it's anything like the Guard treatment, then it'll be nothing to write home about...
We can pretty confirm that none of the supposedly "6 new dataslates", (re: word-for-word reprints of existing current rules), are getting anything of value. The Exalted Flamer for example is now confirmed to still somehow lose the ability to gain Gifts when not on his chariot?! (seriously, wtf is with that BS!?)
We know that the new psychic lores are just the current (at best average) lores with +3 spells.
We know that Tzeentch's lore is still hamstrumg by Warpflame & 7th taking a giant turd all over Witchfires in general.
Right now, there's no reason to be confidant that anything is going to be decent.
Just looking at the Auxiliary choices, none of them seem that amazing, until we get a good look at the bonuses.
-Spear of Russ: vehicle formations are always bleh and this one doesn't seem to be any exception since you have to take one Land Raider
-Fangs of the Tempest: Flyers are ok, nothing special though
-Ancients of the Fang: Dreadnaught Formation, meh
-Curseborn: MURDERFANG
-Wulfen Murderpack: Probably the go-to from what I've seen
-Wolfkin: Probably going to be something similar to the Drone Network - good if you just want a cheap Aux and maybe some gimmick.
So probably the Aux formation of choice will be the Wulfen and maybe one of the Flyers or the Wolves if they get something nice.
That NZ link has me nervous about the splitting of the "pack" pack. Curious whether I should bite the bullet and pick up the old one and bases if the prices are going up.
Ragnar69 wrote:What a joke! Fear and Furious Charge instead of 8 free transports?!?
That counter charge is also VERY situational and to get it you lose all flexibility in list building. It's not possible to take a single tank or priest or dread. How many points do they think we are playing? It's nearly as craptastic as the Cadian one.
Let's see what the legendary greatpacks bring but I guess I'll stick to CAD or champions.
All Multiple Formation Detachments have this. You have to take non-optimal choices but you get bonuses. Or you take the CAD and get ObSec but none of the fancy buffs. Every 7.5e codex so far has made that decision.
Requizen wrote: Counter-Charge: HOLY BUTTS THAT'S NICE. Basically you're forced to multicharge SW units or they get to get in at you. Daaaang.
Howl of Wolves: Fear and Furious Charge. The former is meh, the latter is quite nice, but it's not quite the Battle Company bonus for taking two Core detachments.
God dammit! Yet ANOTHER Chaos perk that freaking Loyalists get to steal, and do 100x better than we do!
And the Exalted Flamer still can't take any Gifts when not on his Chariot?
Yep, this is going to be pointless for Daemons.
We haven't seen even the makeup of more than 2 formations for Daemons, nor the Detachment bonus or anything else. I don't think it's that bad.
If it's anything like the Guard treatment, then it'll be nothing to write home about...
We can pretty confirm that none of the supposedly "6 new dataslates", (re: word-for-word reprints of existing current rules), are getting anything of value. The Exalted Flamer for example is now confirmed to still somehow lose the ability to gain Gifts when not on his chariot?! (seriously, wtf is with that BS!?)
We know that the new psychic lores are just the current (at best average) lores with +3 spells.
We know that Tzeentch's lore is still hamstrumg by Warpflame & 7th taking a giant turd all over Witchfires in general.
Right now, there's no reason to be confidant that anything is going to be decent.
There's similarly no reason to cry, there are no nerfs, everything is exactly the same. Any formations can only be buffs or ignored, no Formation will make existing units worse. The only place that they can nerf Daemons would be if they changed the Artefacts, which we have no ideas about yet.
Daemons are already strong enough to be a top Tournament army even with a 6e book. This won't change that, even if they break the Grimoire it'll still be a top army.
Ragnar69 wrote: What a joke! Fear and Furious Charge instead of 8 free transports?!?.
you can't be serious that free transports everywhere should be standard oO
I don't want free units, but definitely something better than this. You have to invest lots of points to meet the prerequisites, and many at really subpar units. I take a unit of Claws from time to time (I even right now assemble a second 15 men squad), but certainly not because they are useful.
All Multiple Formation Detachments have this. You have to take non-optimal choices but you get bonuses. Or you take the CAD and get ObSec but none of the fancy buffs. Every 7.5e codex so far has made that decision.
I know. But these bonuses are not worth it. Let's see what the formation themselves bring, but these command benefits could as well be ignored.
Ragnar69 wrote: What a joke! Fear and Furious Charge instead of 8 free transports?!?.
you can't be serious that free transports everywhere should be standard oO
I don't want free units, but definitely something better than this. You have to invest lots of points to meet the prerequisites, and many at really subpar units. I take a unit of Claws from time to time (I even right now assemble a second 15 men squad), but certainly not because they are useful.
Please... You can get your minimum with only 675pts for;
- Wolf Lord on Thunderwolf + Storm shield
- 3x TWC - 3x5 Grey Hunters w/Meltagun + Combi-melta WGPL
- 5 Skyclaws w/2x Flamer
Plus whatever pts needed for how you prefer to run your mandatory Long Fang pack. That's easily workable into any list, gets a great perk that plays amazingly into how SW's in general prefer to fight. (ideal range of 12-24")
And your additional mandatory formation, let's face it, will likely be either a bunch of Wulfen or cheap Fenrisian Wolves.
It's still a hugely characterful and kick*** detachment, and one that Chaos players for example are definitely going to be insanely jealous of. (especially considering Wolves just stole one of our few remaining special rules...)
Plus it looks like SW's are getting their own version of the Librarius Conclave, so yet again, congrats on 1-up'ing Chaos on one of the last remaining strengths we still had left to us.
All Multiple Formation Detachments have this. You have to take non-optimal choices but you get bonuses. Or you take the CAD and get ObSec but none of the fancy buffs. Every 7.5e codex so far has made that decision.
I know. But these bonuses are not worth it. Let's see what the formation themselves bring, but these command benefits could as well be ignored.
Having played with Beasts of Nurgle who have the exact same counter-assault rules that SW's have now stolen, I can promise you that there is nothing ignorable about those Command benefits...
Sure, Tau & Eldar don't care much. But SW's can now just laugh at every other assault army in the game, especially the likes of Chaos in general, Orks, Tyranids, BA's, Templars, etc...
Claiming that 'free' counter assaults & army-wide Furious Charge as meaningless is disingenuous at best.
Free transports shouldnt be the standard but they were GW's solution to Marines fighting Tau, Eldar and Crons, armies that could out shoot marines and in many cases were more durable - quite frankly if you can't outshoot your opponent you better be more resilient than him. Not to mention SMs have object secured on everything.
I can't really read any of the text above, but since no one has listed anything that makes SW more durable or more shooty, from a competitive standpoint they havent gained any ground on the real 7th edition codexes. Unless they are suppose to just continue with the thunder wolf cav death star- evidently that is what it means to be a space wolf now, you ride a wolf (or I guess turn into a wolf).
Automatically Appended Next Post: Having played with Beasts of Nurgle, who have the exact same counter-assault rules that SW's have now stolen, I can promise you that there is nothing ignorable about those Command benefits...
Sure, Tau & Eldar don't care much. But SW's can now just laugh at every other assault army in the game, especially the likes of Chaos in general, Orks, Tyranids, BA's, Templars, etc...
Claiming that 'free' counter assaults & army-wide Furious Charge as meaningless is disingenuous at best.
Any army designed to outshoot their opponent could care less about furious charge and causing fear. So in general, Eldar, Tau, SM (for the most part now with the free shooty transports), DA and their bikes, and Crons. Nids do just fine without being assaulty, in fact I would say they are better with all their dakkafexes and multiple flyrants etc. So really who are we talking about- Chaos and Orks (surely not dark eldar). Honestly, did SW need furious charge to be successful against Chaos and Orks with Thunderwolves? Not really. Are 5- man grey hunter squads really ever going to use fearless and furious charge, 5 models? What does +1 strength allow 5 guys to take on that they couldnt with str 4- not that it isnt easy to just shoot and kill 5 marines.
What about the conclave. CSM sorcerers can achieve level 3 right? Rune Priests only can achieve level 2 and their psychic deck is horrible. Unless they allow Rune Priests to take level 3, it won't really matter, you can't generate enough dice to make them viable.
So really all those cheap squads of GHs dont really benefit at all and neither do the 5 man squads of assault claws as they have no resiliency at all, it is much different when taking a min sized squad that can shoot and has bonuses to shoot. 5 man squads of basic marines wont make it into combat and are easily just shot and killed, they wont ever get to counter charge, that is their problem right now, counter charge isn't a big deal on a generic space marine statline. Against big stuff where it does make a difference, your opponent realizes this and just shoots you, or brings something bigger to the party that doesnt care.
Certainly you are entitled to your own opinion, but mine is, if they dont get any added durability, the power rankings aren't changing and they are still below the 7.5 codexes and slighly above the others because of thunderwolves. No one is saying Furious Charge and Fear are worthless, but compared to free units, a free FNP plus save, extra shooting and BS, and all the extras Tau got, it is pretty craptastic. Obviously you play Chaos, how many points is fear worth when someone is shooting you and anything you get into cc with you are going to beat anyways?
Ragnar69 wrote: What a joke! Fear and Furious Charge instead of 8 free transports?!?.
you can't be serious that free transports everywhere should be standard oO
I don't want free units, but definitely something better than this. You have to invest lots of points to meet the prerequisites, and many at really subpar units. I take a unit of Claws from time to time (I even right now assemble a second 15 men squad), but certainly not because they are useful.
Please... You can get your minimum with only 675pts for;
- Wolf Lord on Thunderwolf + Storm shield
- 3x TWC - 3x5 Grey Hunters w/Meltagun + Combi-melta WGPL
- 5 Skyclaws w/2x Flamer
Plus whatever pts needed for how you prefer to run your mandatory Long Fang pack. That's easily workable into any list, gets a great perk that plays amazingly into how SW's in general prefer to fight. (ideal range of 12-24")
And your additional mandatory formation, let's face it, will likely be either a bunch of Wulfen or cheap Fenrisian Wolves.
It's still a hugely characterful and kick*** detachment, and one that Chaos players for example are definitely going to be insanely jealous of. (especially considering Wolves just stole one of our few remaining special rules...)
Plus it looks like SW's are getting their own version of the Librarius Conclave, so yet again, congrats on 1-up'ing Chaos on one of the last remaining strengths we still had left to us.
All Multiple Formation Detachments have this. You have to take non-optimal choices but you get bonuses. Or you take the CAD and get ObSec but none of the fancy buffs. Every 7.5e codex so far has made that decision.
I know. But these bonuses are not worth it. Let's see what the formation themselves bring, but these command benefits could as well be ignored.
Having played with Beasts of Nurgle who have the exact same counter-assault rules that SW's have now stolen, I can promise you that there is nothing ignorable about those Command benefits...
Sure, Tau & Eldar don't care much. But SW's can now just laugh at every other assault army in the game, especially the likes of Chaos in general, Orks, Tyranids, BA's, Templars, etc...
Claiming that 'free' counter assaults & army-wide Furious Charge as meaningless is disingenuous at best.
For Furious Charge you need the double amount of models and they are all on foot. And Long Fangs....let's say I have a special relationship with them. In the last tourney they killed more in melee than with shooting, I m just unlucky with them (and plasma weapons )
That "bunch of Wulfen" cost you easily 500 points when decently equipped and the cheap option of fenrisian wolves will just be laughed of the board. Hell, even a mob of trukkboyz prolly wipes them in one salvo.
I'm in a sad situation that my only gaming opportunities come from a few tourneys a year. You can count with one finger how many close combat armies I meet there.
But whats funny: by switching the grey hunters for land speeders you can go sort of Ravenwing
I have the feeling that GW don't like Grey Hunters any more.
All rules and the Decurion benefit Blood Claws more.
And the Auxiliary is a joke.
I can only play 1 unit of Scouts per Decurion, I have to buy a (new) Iron Priest and a Land Raider to get a Whirlwind (wtf), while I must take Blood Claws, I have to choose between Grey Hunters and Land Speeders (just take less of what ever you take) and of course the new Wulfen are a 2-5 choice.
I play Space Wolves since the exist, and somehow I like the new rules because finally I can kick some ass again, but this are not the Wolves I played and loved so many years.
So back to the painting station, put some colour on unpainted models and make a generic Chapter.
PS:
For the List:
3 Units of Wulfen, 2 Units of Swift Claws, 2 Units of Skyclaws, 2x TWC, Wolflord, Battle Leader, 2x Long Fang, 3 Landspeeder
depending on the points, add some Dreadnoughts in DropPod's
kodos wrote: I have the feeling that GW don't like Grey Hunters any more.
All rules and the Decurion benefit Blood Claws more.
And the Auxiliary is a joke.
I can only play 1 unit of Scouts per Decurion, I have to buy a (new) Iron Priest and a Land Raider to get a Whirlwind (wtf), while I must take Blood Claws, I have to choose between Grey Hunters and Land Speeders (just take less of what ever you take) and of course the new Wulfen are a 2-5 choice.
I play Space Wolves since the exist, and somehow I like the new rules because finally I can kick some ass again, but this are not the Wolves I played and loved so many years.
So back to the painting station, put some colour on unpainted models and make a generic Chapter.
We still have hope that there are formations from the other 12 Great Companies right??? Or are we stuck with furious charge and fear for all formations? I didn't think it could get worse from the last codex and champions of fenris.
I was kinda hoping for a TWC formation. Instead you get the option for just one unit per core. Kinda lame. Though one of the special great companies is likely composed of primarily TWC.
It will be interesting to see what the sub-formation bonuses are.
The great company looks to have some nice flexibility in it. More adjustable then a demi co IMHO.
The Aux come in a nice spread. Some pricy, but most look they can be used in moderate games. Being forced to take a LR in the armored one is a bit ouchy, but once you have that tax out of the way, there are a lot of options.
I am Iuchiban from Warseer. May some of you already know me for leaking the rules of new released codex before they hit the stores. And now that Warseer is down, this was the logic place to go.
I am Iuchiban from Warseer. May some of you already know me for leaking the rules of new released codex before they hit the stores. And now that Warseer is down, this was the logic place to go.
Iuchiban- are any of the great pack bonuses good- I have to say looking at what is listed, there isnt much that helps us survive against massed firepower like eldar and tau.
The conclave, can Rune Priests go to level 3 and/or are there any different psychic powers- what are the bonuses?
I am Iuchiban from Warseer. May some of you already know me for leaking the rules of new released codex before they hit the stores. And now that Warseer is down, this was the logic place to go.
I already have the new book in my hands.
So, where do you want to start?
Let's get the party started ...
Just start going through the crunch and summarizing anything we don't have a pic for.
I was really looking forward to this but the decurion is so bad~. Nooooeeeee. I mean, I wasn't expecting free transports or anything but come on, counter-charge, fear and furius charge (company of the greatwolf is arguably better since it's not so limited!!!)????!! Literally doesn't do anything to help shore up our weakness.
Sigh. Hopefully the solo formation/detachment bonuses are good enough to run at least one of them in a space wolves primary CAD.
I am Iuchiban from Warseer. May some of you already know me for leaking the rules of new released codex before they hit the stores. And now that Warseer is down, this was the logic place to go.
I already have the new book in my hands.
So, where do you want to start?
Let's get the party started ...
Daemon stuff please =D
OK then.
Daemon Decurión is called Daemonic Incursion
Special rules:
- Demonic corruption: Objetive tokens count always as controlled, if at least they were controlled by a Demon unit before. This Works even if the unit is destroyed.
- Warp unleashed: Reroll instability
- Demonic Power: +1 or -1 to the Warp Strom table after rolling
I am Iuchiban from Warseer. May some of you already know me for leaking the rules of new released codex before they hit the stores. And now that Warseer is down, this was the logic place to go.
I already have the new book in my hands.
So, where do you want to start?
Let's get the party started ...
Daemon stuff please =D
OK then.
Daemon Decurión is called Daemonic Incursion
Special rules:
- Demonic corruption: Objetive tokens count always as controlled, if at least they were controlled by a Demon unit before. This Works even if the unit is destroyed.
- Warp unleashed: Reroll instability
- Demonic Power: +1 or -1 to the Warp Strom table after rolling
HOLY gak THAT'S SO GOOOOOOOD
That immediately is literally worth taking this even before seeing the core/aux formations.
Specifically, do Daemons have a formation of Psykers that get to cast on 2+, similar to Librarius Conclave or the like?
No but there are new specific artefacts for each God. And 3 new Psyker Disciplings for each God, with 7 powers each. And new god-specific warlord traits
Specifically, do Daemons have a formation of Psykers that get to cast on 2+, similar to Librarius Conclave or the like?
No but there are new specific artefacts for each God. And 3 new Psyker Disciplings for each God, with 7 powers each. And new god-specific warlord traits
There are no rumors about an Iron priest or other models except for a re-release of Krom and a new Ulrik/Wolf Priest model. 
... wait ... oh ....
