Specifically, do Daemons have a formation of Psykers that get to cast on 2+, similar to Librarius Conclave or the like?
No but there are new specific artefacts for each God. And 3 new Psyker Disciplings for each God, with 7 powers each. And new god-specific warlord traits
Then I will patiently wait for those
Note: From now on, translations of names may not be very accurate:
Let's start with Khorne:
A'rgath,king of swords: +1S, AP3, Specialist weapon, when fighting in a challenge always hits with 2+. 15 points
Lifetaker : AP2, Specialist weapong, 6 to wound are Instant Death, for every model killed, unit suffers 1D3 hits S3, AP4. 15 points
Crimson Crown; All Khorne Daemons at 8" get +1A. 40 points
Skullcutter: AP2, Specialist weapon, 6 to hit are SD.30 points (THAT ONE IS DAMN GOOD).
Khartoth, the blood thirsty: +1S, AP3, If a model suffers an unsaved wound remove it from the game. At the beginning of the model controller's turn roll a D6. With 4+ the model comes back to play via Deep strike, at 12" or less from the point it was removed from game.
Armour of something: 3+ Armour save, Adamantium will, -1S to when attacking its bearer.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
lonewolf81 wrote: Lets move to wolves and please be better than counter assault stuff :p
Well, the countercharge thing is known,
Another thing is that if your detachment consists of two Greatpacks you get a Great Company.
A Great Company gets Fear and Furious charge while the Wolf Lord is alive. Not too impressive.
lonewolf81 wrote: Legendary great pack bonuses , requirments restrictions if you can
Thnx
Greatpack:
- For every unit in the formation roll a D6 at the beginning of the game. Add +2 to the roll for the troop units that have an IC joined. For every 6+, that unit gets flanking. Additionally, if a the leader is a Wolf Lord, a single unit in Reserves can enter the battlefield automatically instead of rolling.
lonewolf81 wrote: Legendary great pack bonuses , requirments restrictions if you can
Thnx
Greatpack:
- For every unit in the formation roll a D6 at the beginning of the game. Add +2 to the roll for the troop units that have an IC joined. For every 6+, that unit gets flanking. Additionally, if a the leader is a Wolf Lord, a single unit in Reserves can enter the battlefield automatically instead of rolling.
Reroll warlord trait
Seems to be similar to the Wolves Unleashed Detachment.
Thanks for sharing these.
Can you let us know the specific rules and units for The Deathwolves formation?
WOW. The SW decurion bonus is SO BAD. There is literally no other way to say it. It's TERRIBLE.
And to get fear and furious charge, you need 2 greatpacks! Even 1 greatpack isn't worth getting, much less 2!! Is 2 greatpacks worth getting fear and furious charge? I don't think so. That's a crap load of points. So for pretty much for 99% of players, the only benefit they get from decurion is counter-charge? ROFL. I'd rather take OBSEC or WS...
Iuchiban, could you please tell us the separate formation bonuses? Thanks for sharing.
EDIT: Greatpack bonus is literally the same... It's getting worse and worse friends.
Nimrow23 wrote: WOW. The SW decurion bonus is SO BAD. There is literally no other way to say it. It's TERRIBLE.
And to get fear and furious charge, you need 2 greatpacks! Even 1 greatpack isn't worth getting, much less 2!! So pretty much for 99% of players, the only benefit they get from decurion is counter-charge? ROFL. I'd rather take OBSEC or WS...
way to bump for your first comment ... take your WSBS for another thread
sturguard wrote: Well... It is pretty terrible and he is right, unless there are some good great company bonuses, now one will be taking them competitively.
Until we see rules for the named Great Company formations, it really is too early to tell.
Specifically, do Daemons have a formation of Psykers that get to cast on 2+, similar to Librarius Conclave or the like?
No but there are new specific artefacts for each God. And 3 new Psyker Disciplings for each God, with 7 powers each. And new god-specific warlord traits
Then I will patiently wait for those
Note: From now on, translations of names may not be very accurate:
Let's start with Khorne:
A'rgath,king of swords: +1S, AP3, Specialist weapon, when fighting in a challenge always hits with 2+. 15 points
Lifetaker : AP2, Specialist weapong, 6 to wound are Instant Death, for every model killed, unit suffers 1D3 hits S3, AP4. 15 points
Crimson Crown; All Khorne Daemons at 8" get +1A. 40 points
Skullcutter: AP2, Specialist weapon, 6 to hit are SD.30 points (THAT ONE IS DAMN GOOD).
Khartoth, the blood thirsty: +1S, AP3, If a model suffers an unsaved wound remove it from the game. At the beginning of the model controller's turn roll a D6. With 4+ the model comes back to play via Deep strike, at 12" or less from the point it was removed from game.
Armour of something: 3+ Armour save, Adamantium will, -1S to when attacking its bearer.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
lonewolf81 wrote: Lets move to wolves and please be better than counter assault stuff :p
Well, the countercharge thing is known,
Another thing is that if your detachment consists of two Greatpacks you get a Great Company.
A Great Company gets Fear and Furious charge while the Wolf Lord is alive. Not too impressive.
Daemons of Khorne: GOD OF WAR, everything about him is death and destruction - has loads of gimmicky AP 3 Specialist Weapons.
Space Wolves: Rowdy vikings with little of tactics but impressive skill in combat - I dunno dude, give them loads of AP 2 Ice weapons with extra S, oh and throw FNP in there and let them fight after death. Also charge longer and faster.
WYRDSTORM RUNEPRIESTS
2-5 Runepriests
Harness Warp Charges with 3+ when using Tempestas discipline.
Every turn choose a Rune Priest of the formation. That one gets the following power:
- Livinstorm (WC3)
24", S7, AP- Assault 2D6, Shock (For every 6 you get +2 hits). Add +1D6 attacks to the power for every Runepriest in the formation beyond the 1st.
THE BLACKMANES
Ragnar Blackmane or Wolf Guard Battle Leader
1 unit of Wolf guard, Terminators or Thunderwolves
3-5 units of Blood Claws, Skyclaws or Swiftclaws
0-1 Lukas
4-6 Grey Hunters, Land Speeders
1-2 Long Fangs
1 Wolf scouts
0-2 Lone Wolves
Units disembarking from a Drop Pod get Fearless and FnP6+ that turn.
If Ragnar is on the battlefield, all "Claw" units reroll to hit in combat
All unit that normally can purchase a Drop Pod, can get it for free. Have to pay the upgrades. All Drop Pods of this formation enter the battlefield in turn 1.
aracersss wrote: Iuchiban can we get info on the rest of the relics for the rest of the patron gods?
and what is the rules for the 4 DP formation?
DP Formation:
4 DP Every deamon must be aligned with a different God.
They get following accumulative benefits depending on how many models remain on the battlefield.
4 models: +1T
3 models: +1S
2 models: Reroll 1's to hit
1 model: No benefit
If your warlord is one of the DP, then all of them get the same warlord trait.
Iuchiban, can you tell what the Wulfen Murderpack does? Wulfen are pretty powerful already but their only weakness is their lack of movement. Lets see if the formation resolves that.
Okay, lets break this down before everyone who doesn't play SW rages.
THE BLACKMANES
Ragnar Blackmane or Wolf Guard Battle Leader
1 unit of Wolf guard, Terminators or Thunderwolves
3-5 units of Blood Claws, Skyclaws or Swiftclaws
0-1 Lukas
4-6 Grey Hunters, Land Speeders
1-2 Long Fangs
1 Wolf scouts
0-2 Lone Wolves
Okay, so if you can get a pod you get it for free. Out of this list that means WG, GH, BC and LFs. You have to take 3 units of BCs and 4 units of GH, 1 unit of WS and 1 unit of LF. So Wolf Scouts are horrible and they are 100 pt tax (which gets you 3 pods normally at 35 each) To be able to cram all this in to 1850 you are going to be taking min sized squads which are easily shot up and of course don't add any firepower to your army. A bunch of 5 man squads with 1 assult weapon isn't going to cripple your enemy. Pods only have a storm bolter so they aren't going to be causing a bunch of damage. 6+ FnP eh, really, you think that is what Iron Hands already get, in addtion to IWND on their vehicles. So marines in this situation would get the FNP, the Free Drop Pods and we get all the pods landing on turn 1. Again, if we had some very good shooting units dropping out that would substantially reduce the enemy's firepower, that would be great, instead I say its okay, but not a game breaker.
Tempestas is just such a horrible psychic list - Im not sure that is any good.
OK, having checked out the NZ pics of the Wulfen I am even more certain of my initial impression, and don't even see many bitz that look to be worth rummaging for, but I'm still confused about one thing;
The Wulfen are stripped to their Black Carapace, with a smattering of fixed armour plates, shoulderpads, or armoured belts. None wear helmets. Sooo, what do they need backpacks for again? There's nothing there for them to power, and whether it was themselves or a friendly battle brother, somebody clearly had the wherewithal to strip their old armour off and give them special new armour, so why leave that dead weight strapped to their back? Indeed, how the hell is it attached to them given SM packs attach to the outside of the power armour chestplate?
Jeebus this kit is fractally terrible, every examination reveals a new flaw.
Paradox: AP4, Combat, Once per turn you can, after rolling for a psychic power turn the dices around. So, for example a roll of 1, 3 and 5, becomes 2, 4 and 6. 25 points
Unending grimorie: Bearer knows all the powers of the change discipline. 35 points
Scourge of souls: Combat, Fleshbane, AP is equal to the I of the target. Against vehicles is AP1. 15 points
Oracle disc: Disc of Tzeenth. At the beginning of your turn choose a unit in Reserves. That unit enters the game automatically. 35 points.
"Unable to translate": Bearer gets 3++ save, Every time bearer suffers a wound must take a Ld test. If failed is removed from game. 25 points.
Primaris: Same a codex Daemons
1. Same as 1-2 from Daemon codex
2. Same as 3-4 from Daemon codex
3. Nova. S1D6, AP4, Assault 2D6 Ignore cover, warp flames
4. Invocation, 12", with 2 WC creates a Exalted Flamer of Tzeentch, with 3WC invoke 3 flamers of tzeentch or 1 burning chariot.
5. Same as 5-6 from Daemon codex.
6. Witch fire. 18". SD, AP1, Assault 1
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ragnar69 wrote: Those are the good ones? Lol . Tempestas in 3+. I need to get a Dozent New runepriests ...
I really think that the new power is very good. 3D6 or 4D6 S7 shots with the shock rule are not bad at all.
Yodhrin wrote: OK, having checked out the NZ pics of the Wulfen I am even more certain of my initial impression, and don't even see many bitz that look to be worth rummaging for, but I'm still confused about one thing;
The Wulfen are stripped to their Black Carapace, with a smattering of fixed armour plates, shoulderpads, or armoured belts. None wear helmets. Sooo, what do they need backpacks for again? There's nothing there for them to power, and whether it was themselves or a friendly battle brother, somebody clearly had the wherewithal to strip their old armour off and give them special new armour, so why leave that dead weight strapped to their back? Indeed, how the hell is it attached to them given SM packs attach to the outside of the power armour chestplate?
Jeebus this kit is fractally terrible, every examination reveals a new flaw.
Blightstar wrote: Iuchiban, can you tell what the Wulfen Murderpack does? Wulfen are pretty powerful already but their only weakness is their lack of movement. Lets see if the formation resolves that.
Wulfen murderpack:
2-5 units of Wulfen
Add +1 to the curse of the wulfen roll for every unit on the battlefield.
There is a 7+ result.
- Hunt: Affected units can move twice this turn. (THAT ONE IS GOOD)
- Kill: Affected units get +1A
The Wulfen units that get an additional attack for every 6 to hit in combat
Blightstar wrote: Iuchiban, can you tell what the Wulfen Murderpack does? Wulfen are pretty powerful already but their only weakness is their lack of movement. Lets see if the formation resolves that.
Wulfen murderpack:
2-5 units of Wulfen
Add +1 to the curse of the wulfen roll for every unit on the battlefield.
There is a 7+ result.
- Hunt: Affected units can move twice this turn. (THAT ONE IS GOOD)
- Kill: Affected units get +1A
The Wulfen units that get an additional attack for every 6 to hit in combat
Gotta say, not in love with the Ulrik model. Might stick with the old one. Hope this one also has a helmeted version. Would also love to see new Rune Priest and Wolf Priest models (epsecially if I need 7 for that Rune Priest formation)
Blightstar wrote: Iuchiban, can you tell what the Wulfen Murderpack does? Wulfen are pretty powerful already but their only weakness is their lack of movement. Lets see if the formation resolves that.
Wulfen murderpack:
2-5 units of Wulfen
Add +1 to the curse of the wulfen roll for every unit on the battlefield.
There is a 7+ result.
- Hunt: Affected units can move twice this turn. (THAT ONE IS GOOD)
- Kill: Affected units get +1A
The Wulfen units that get an additional attack for every 6 to hit in combat
Man... that 7+ result makes me continue to think my idea of trying a MSU Wulfen/TWC spam, might really do work.
Blightstar wrote: Iuchiban, can you tell what the Wulfen Murderpack does? Wulfen are pretty powerful already but their only weakness is their lack of movement. Lets see if the formation resolves that.
Wulfen murderpack:
2-5 units of Wulfen
Add +1 to the curse of the wulfen roll for every unit on the battlefield.
There is a 7+ result.
- Hunt: Affected units can move twice this turn. (THAT ONE IS GOOD)
- Kill: Affected units get +1A
The Wulfen units that get an additional attack for every 6 to hit in combat
Yodhrin wrote: OK, having checked out the NZ pics of the Wulfen I am even more certain of my initial impression, and don't even see many bitz that look to be worth rummaging for, but I'm still confused about one thing;
The Wulfen are stripped to their Black Carapace, with a smattering of fixed armour plates, shoulderpads, or armoured belts. None wear helmets. Sooo, what do they need backpacks for again? There's nothing there for them to power, and whether it was themselves or a friendly battle brother, somebody clearly had the wherewithal to strip their old armour off and give them special new armour, so why leave that dead weight strapped to their back? Indeed, how the hell is it attached to them given SM packs attach to the outside of the power armour chestplate?
Jeebus this kit is fractally terrible, every examination reveals a new flaw.
They power their power weapons
Except they don't, not by the fluff afaik and not by the models, except maybe the claws, which even then makes no sense because they're large enough to fit individual power generators like the axes and hammers and strapping a huge fusion reactor pack designed to run a full suit of armour to yourself just to power a couple of claws is mental. And even the ones not using the claws wear the packs.
Blightstar wrote: Iuchiban, can you tell what the Wulfen Murderpack does? Wulfen are pretty powerful already but their only weakness is their lack of movement. Lets see if the formation resolves that.
Wulfen murderpack:
2-5 units of Wulfen
Add +1 to the curse of the wulfen roll for every unit on the battlefield.
There is a 7+ result.
- Hunt: Affected units can move twice this turn. (THAT ONE IS GOOD)
- Kill: Affected units get +1A
The Wulfen units that get an additional attack for every 6 to hit in combat
Is it an additional attack or an additional hit?
1 additional A for every 6 to hit.
OK. Do the secondary attacks also proc more attacks?
Paradox: AP4, Combat, Once per turn you can, after rolling for a psychic power turn the dices around. So, for example a roll of 1, 3 and 5, becomes 2, 4 and 6. 25 points
Unending grimorie: Bearer knows all the powers of the change discipline. 35 points
Scourge of souls: Combat, Fleshbane, AP is equal to the I of the target. Against vehicles is AP1. 15 points
Oracle disc: Disc of Tzeenth. At the beginning of your turn choose a unit in Reserves. That unit enters the game automatically. 35 points.
"Unable to translate": Bearer gets 3++ save, Every time bearer suffers a wound must take a Ld test. If failed is removed from game. 25 points.
Primaris: Same a codex Daemons
1. Same as 1-2 from Daemon codex
2. Same as 3-4 from Daemon codex
3. Nova. S1D6, AP4, Assault 2D6 Ignore cover, warp flames
4. Invocation, 12", with 2 WC creates a Exalted Flamer of Tzeentch, with 3WC invoke 3 flamers of tzeentch or 1 burning chariot.
5. Same as 5-6 from Daemon codex.
6. Witch fire. 18". SD, AP1, Assault 1
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ragnar69 wrote: Those are the good ones? Lol . Tempestas in 3+. I need to get a Dozent New runepriests ...
I really think that the new power is very good. 3D6 or 4D6 S7 shots with the shock rule are not bad at all.
Poor, poor Tzeentch...
We better get a formation that buffs the living hell out of our psychic abilities, because right now, that lore is still the game's worst. Limited casting ability AND Warpflame is just too huge a hurtle to try and jump.
We better get a formation that buffs the living hell out of our psychic abilities, because right now, that lore is still the game's worst. Limited casting ability AND Warpflame is just too huge a hurtle to try and jump.
I mean, 4 and 6 are pretty good sounding, depends on the WC amount of 6 but that's a lot of d shooting :/
Nimrow23 wrote: WOW. The SW decurion bonus is SO BAD. There is literally no other way to say it. It's TERRIBLE.
And to get fear and furious charge, you need 2 greatpacks! Even 1 greatpack isn't worth getting, much less 2!! Is 2 greatpacks worth getting fear and furious charge? I don't think so. That's a crap load of points. So for pretty much for 99% of players, the only benefit they get from decurion is counter-charge? ROFL. I'd rather take OBSEC or WS...
Iuchiban, could you please tell us the separate formation bonuses? Thanks for sharing.
EDIT: Greatpack bonus is literally the same... It's getting worse and worse friends.
If Wolves players don't want Fear and Furious Charge, I'd love to give it to my Dark Eldar. And being able to counter-charge? Orks and Nids would love that.
Do we know why Warseer is down? It is the best of the 40K forums, or at least the least toxic of them.
Blightstar wrote: Iuchiban, can you tell what the Wulfen Murderpack does? Wulfen are pretty powerful already but their only weakness is their lack of movement. Lets see if the formation resolves that.
Wulfen murderpack:
2-5 units of Wulfen
Add +1 to the curse of the wulfen roll for every unit on the battlefield.
There is a 7+ result.
- Hunt: Affected units can move twice this turn. (THAT ONE IS GOOD)
- Kill: Affected units get +1A
The Wulfen units that get an additional attack for every 6 to hit in combat
Is it an additional attack or an additional hit?
1 additional A for every 6 to hit.
OK. Do the secondary attacks also proc more attacks?
Blightstar wrote: Iuchiban, can you tell what the Wulfen Murderpack does? Wulfen are pretty powerful already but their only weakness is their lack of movement. Lets see if the formation resolves that.
Wulfen murderpack:
2-5 units of Wulfen
Add +1 to the curse of the wulfen roll for every unit on the battlefield.
There is a 7+ result.
- Hunt: Affected units can move twice this turn. (THAT ONE IS GOOD)
- Kill: Affected units get +1A
The Wulfen units that get an additional attack for every 6 to hit in combat
Is it an additional attack or an additional hit?
1 additional A for every 6 to hit.
OK. Do the secondary attacks also proc more attacks?
you literally realize tz now got sD witchfire with all powers relic
Woo. 1 shot at 18" range, and will likely be a WC2 power, if not WC3.
Colour me unimpressed, considering that Tzeentch's main problem is that our main ranged damage dealers in Pink Horrors are still next to useless at their one job... Tzeentch powers cost too many WC's to generate volume of shots, which then still have to roll to hit & wound (with average BS), and can hand out FnP like candy.
Can you tell us what the Spear of Russ formation does?
Spear of Russ:
1-3 Iron priests
1-3 Units of: Predators, Whirlwinds or Vindicators
1-3 Units of Land Raiders of any type
One vehicle at 6" of one of the Iron Priests gets one of the following rules: Tank Hunter, Monster hunter, Precision shots, Preferred enemy
All vehicles get the Power of the Machine Spirit rule if at 12" of one Land Raider
Paradox: AP4, Combat, Once per turn you can, after rolling for a psychic power turn the dices around. So, for example a roll of 1, 3 and 5, becomes 2, 4 and 6. 25 points
Unending grimorie: Bearer knows all the powers of the change discipline. 35 points
Scourge of souls: Combat, Fleshbane, AP is equal to the I of the target. Against vehicles is AP1. 15 points
Oracle disc: Disc of Tzeenth. At the beginning of your turn choose a unit in Reserves. That unit enters the game automatically. 35 points.
"Unable to translate": Bearer gets 3++ save, Every time bearer suffers a wound must take a Ld test. If failed is removed from game. 25 points.
Primaris: Same a codex Daemons
1. Same as 1-2 from Daemon codex
2. Same as 3-4 from Daemon codex
3. Nova. S1D6, AP4, Assault 2D6 Ignore cover, warp flames
4. Invocation, 12", with 2 WC creates a Exalted Flamer of Tzeentch, with 3WC invoke 3 flamers of tzeentch or 1 burning chariot.
5. Same as 5-6 from Daemon codex.
6. Witch fire. 18". SD, AP1, Assault 1
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ragnar69 wrote: Those are the good ones? Lol . Tempestas in 3+. I need to get a Dozent New runepriests ...
I really think that the new power is very good. 3D6 or 4D6 S7 shots with the shock rule are not bad at all.
Unending Grimoire is nice. Scourge of Souls on a DP or LoC is good too. Oracle Disc is great for reserve heavy armies.
New powers are nice. Extra summoning is good and D is never bad.
Can you tell us what the Spear of Russ formation does?
Spear of Russ:
1-3 Iron priests
1-3 Units of: Predators, Whirlwinds or Vindicators
1-3 Units of Land Raiders of any type
One vehicle at 6" of one of the Iron Priests gets one of the following rules: Tank Hunter, Monster hunter, Precision shots, Preferred enemy
All vehicles get the Power of the Machine Spirit rule if at 12" of one Land Raider
I hope at least the art and fluff are good. Good thing is that I don't need to lug another book to my games.
Am I correct in this but... PotMS on the vindicators, move them up 12", snap fire the storm bolters as a squadron at a primary target... The PotMS each of the vindicator cannons at 3 seperate targets? Is that doable or am I misunderstanding because... That's HUGE!?
Atroxus wrote: Am I correct in this but... PotMS on the vindicators, move them up 12", snap fire the storm bolters as a squadron at a primary target... The PotMS each of the vindicator cannons at 3 seperate targets? Is that doable or am I misunderstanding because... That's HUGE!?
Yes, should work, but don't forget to buy the stormbolters as SW Vindicators don't have them stock
Atroxus wrote: Am I correct in this but... PotMS on the vindicators, move them up 12", snap fire the storm bolters as a squadron at a primary target... The PotMS each of the vindicator cannons at 3 seperate targets? Is that doable or am I misunderstanding because... That's HUGE!?
I don't see why not. And, they can have preferred enemy, and you can use the LR as a transport for one of the required BC units, or some wulfen if it comes to that. Certainly sounds like a party to me.
MajorWesJanson wrote: It is the best of the 40K forums, or at least the least toxic of them.
Got a laugh out of me, it's called whineseer for a reason
You are on the best 40k forum right now
True right now, but when Warseer comes back up, Dakka is back to #2. :p
The Iron Priest is epic. Too much wolf bling to easily convert it to vanilla though. And Ulric being is a calm, regal pose is another stunning model. Far better than the other Wolf models recently.
Now for Orks and Dark Eldar to get campaign books with decurion/meta-formations.
Wulfen murderpack:
2-5 units of Wulfen
Add +1 to the curse of the wulfen roll for every unit on the battlefield.
There is a 7+ result.
- Hunt: Affected units can move twice this turn. (THAT ONE IS GOOD)
- Kill: Affected units get +1A
The Wulfen units that get an additional attack for every 6 to hit in combat
Wait, if this is how it's worded. The +1 curse roll is cumulative. +2 sounds pretty good.
Do the new Chaos Deity Artefacts mean that the current ones in the Chaos Daemon codex are forfeit? I'm curious if I can still pick the grimoire of true names.
I love that people were bitching about no free transports. But the Blackmanes get them with half the needed models and all of them come in T1. That is going to be absolutely brutal. The supreme Drop Pod army has arrived.
I wonder if there has been any updates to the Claw units to WS4/BS4.
Please let Blood Angels get an update of this caliber, GW!
casvalremdeikun wrote: I love that people were bitching about no free transports. But the Blackmanes get them with half the needed models and all of them come in T1. That is going to be absolutely brutal. The supreme Drop Pod army has arrived.
I wonder if there has been any updates to the Claw units to WS4/BS4.
Please let Blood Angels get an update of this caliber, GW!
Iono, if they upgrade the claw units to WS4/BS4, there would be little point in GH...
I just want to know if the dreadnought formation is any good and if the dreadnoughts got updated to 4A.
aracersss wrote: BC cost 12pts for a reason no excuse to bump their stats beyond that
SM Scouts are 11 pts, come with better weapon skill and ballistics skill. 1 pt for better armor but worse WS/BS is a pretty awful trade-off. I don't know how they could make Blood Claws better while keeping Grey Hunters relevant though.
casvalremdeikun wrote: I love that people were bitching about no free transports. But the Blackmanes get them with half the needed models and all of them come in T1. That is going to be absolutely brutal. The supreme Drop Pod army has arrived.
I wonder if there has been any updates to the Claw units to WS4/BS4.
Please let Blood Angels get an update of this caliber, GW!
Presently I can do this
2x10 Grey Hunters in a Pod
1x5 LF in a Pod
Turn 1 Drop all 20 GH in their pods, set the LF up on the board to shoot, their drop pod rolls for reserves next turn. The three pods cost 105 pts - notice no Wolf Scouts
Or
I can do- 4x5 Grey Hunters in Drop Pods and Long Fangs in a Drop Pod. Yes, I get extra pods for free, but the same number of marines drop down, even the same number of special weapons drop down (melta or plasmaguns), the LF are still going to setup on the board and fire normally.
So are 2 Free Pods going to turn SW into a broken codex? Really? I'm not whining, Im being realistic. Look at the requirements of what you need to take, all the min sized squads which just waters down the force. You could realistically take the best elements of the formation and put them all on the board turn 1 right now in one manner or another, yet people don't choose to because they don't have the staying power. Tournament players use thunderwolf cav in abundance right now because if their resiliency and speed, taking only 1 unit of thunderwolves just makes it easier to destroy them, just like taking small squads of marines which are easy to shoot and destroy. Drop Pods dont shoot. So, if you arent making the units more durable and you aren't making the units more shooty, my question still remains, how do you deal with Tau, Eldar, SM, Necron etc- you still get shot off the board. Space Marines really didnt get tougher in the newest codex, but they get what 600 pts of almost free vehicles which can shoot (Razorbacks) and add so many more scoring units on the table, even shooting armies will struggle to kill them all- not to mention they have Centurions with grav which is one of the best guns in the game where you point them at a unit and eliminate it. I am not thinking on a basement game level, because if that is the case, CSM, Dark Eldar, IG- they are all fine, competition is meaningless, and if this supplement makes those games better- great, Im all for it, but I would just disagree that anything we have seen thus far compares to any of the new codexes- Eldar, Tau, SM, DA, Necron. Unlike those, I think this was created just to run games between Chaos and SWs- and maybe those games would be pretty good, but it isnt going to make games closer between the other codexes I listed.
MajorWesJanson- if you think thats the case of Warseer, scroll through this thread and read Experiment626 posts- it might mean a changing of the guard.
Why is the leader leaning backwards? And his arms look like a CAD copy/paste job. Scratch that, the whole thing looks like a copy past job then the legs reposed. The thighs have mirrors iconography, all the little wires and do-dads going into his legs are the same.
I think the leader is supposed to look like he is jumping and landing. But instead of him jumping like a wolf would, with his hands landing in front, he is jumping like a frickin' ballerina (both of my daughters are in ballet, I had them demonstrate to be sure). It looks like his legs can be posed, so perhaps the end product will look better when not posed like crap.
casvalremdeikun wrote: I love that people were bitching about no free transports. But the Blackmanes get them with half the needed models and all of them come in T1. That is going to be absolutely brutal. The supreme Drop Pod army has arrived.
I wonder if there has been any updates to the Claw units to WS4/BS4.
Please let Blood Angels get an update of this caliber, GW!
I love the fact that an entire release is being judged on what sort of free crap the army gets over what is actually in the army. That is the saddest part about this whole thing. Its like people wont be happy until they get an army that gets to choose any five USRs for their entire army regardless of what is in it as long as they take unit x, y, z.
Bah, too many people asking for demon rules in a space wolf thread lol. I wanted to know if space wolf dreads got 4 base attacks now like they should. That would make axe and shield dreads pretty fething amazing in that formation. Imagine 5 dreads with 3++ IWND and counter attack having 25 ws5 attacks at s10 ap2 first round of hth. Delicious refrigerator spam!
casvalremdeikun wrote: I love that people were bitching about no free transports. But the Blackmanes get them with half the needed models and all of them come in T1. That is going to be absolutely brutal. The supreme Drop Pod army has arrived.
I wonder if there has been any updates to the Claw units to WS4/BS4.
Please let Blood Angels get an update of this caliber, GW!
I love the fact that an entire release is being judged on what sort of free crap the army gets over what is actually in the army. That is the saddest part about this whole thing. Its like people wont be happy until they get an army that gets to choose any five USRs for their entire army regardless of what is in it as long as they take unit x, y, z.
It's nothing new, 40k has become an arms race level 10. If all your buds are rocking an extra 3-400 pts its hard to blame people for wanting that as well to bridge that gap. Blame GW's poor rules implementation.
What do you guys think of the runepriest conclave? Njal + RP (ML2) gives 3d6 at BS 5. Decent at stripping HP off transports and softening up crappy infranty I guess.
But 3 separate living lightnings gaurentee 9 shots for the same WC so iono. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The idea behind it is super cool although the librarius conclave is probably better.
Runic wrote: Anyone saying the new SW decurion is bad is obviously oblivious to some of the combos it allows that have already been spoiled.
It's not Necrons, but it's definetly not bad.
It's fluffy but the benefits are hardly worth losing obsec. Especially when you consider you can take any of those formations and add them to a CAD anyway. Counter assault and fear/fc is not worth the mandatory units without obsec.
I'll be happy if all they do is fix the dreads and the WSBS of claw units. Makes no sense now that space marine initiates are WS/BS4.
Runic wrote: Anyone saying the new SW decurion is bad is obviously oblivious to some of the combos it allows that have already been spoiled.
It's not Necrons, but it's definetly not bad.
It's fluffy but the benefits are hardly worth losing obsec. Especially when you consider you can take any of those formations and add them to a CAD anyway. Counter assault and fear/fc is not worth the mandatory units without obsec.
I'll be happy if all they do is fix the dreads and the WSBS of claw units. Makes no sense now that space marine initiates are WS/BS4.
Agreed with all points. And not to mention, the SW Decurion is essentially a very focused CAD in the first place. Worse than the Gladius. Counter Assault is nice, and Furious Charge is as well, but the price tag in the form of 3-5 Claw units is just too much.
Man those tzeentch relics are crazy btw. The paradox basically auto casts WC1 powers on 1 die and WC2 on 3 dice, wc3 on 5 etc etc... Then they get an auto grimoired character with that 3++ (remember tzeentch rerolls 1's). I even think their new grimoir is gross, most tzeentch powers blow but automatically getting the D spell and the one that summons exalted chariots, and auto passing with the paradox seems broken. Chariots DS in at combat speed, so you can use that for anty horde and the D slapper for anti beat stick.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Agreed with all points. And not to mention, the SW Decurion is essentially a very focused CAD in the first place. Worse than the Gladius. Counter Assault is nice, and Furious Charge is as well, but the price tag in the form of 3-5 Claw units is just too much.
You can just take 2 of the legendary greatpacks, you don't need to take "the greatpack".
casvalremdeikun wrote: Agreed with all points. And not to mention, the SW Decurion is essentially a very focused CAD in the first place. Worse than the Gladius. Counter Assault is nice, and Furious Charge is as well, but the price tag in the form of 3-5 Claw units is just too much.
You can just take 2 of the legendary greatpacks, you don't need to take "the greatpack".
He's talking about the command benefits of Decurion vs CAD, not what make up the greatpacks.
Since you can run CAD for OBSEC and hand pick any formation from the new campaign as an ally formation, it strictly becomes CAD benefit (OBSEC + re-roll warlord) vs Decurion benefit (counter-charge and fear/furious charge only if you take 2 greatpacks). In the case of Necrons, it's hella worth it. What about in the case of SW?
casvalremdeikun wrote: Agreed with all points. And not to mention, the SW Decurion is essentially a very focused CAD in the first place. Worse than the Gladius. Counter Assault is nice, and Furious Charge is as well, but the price tag in the form of 3-5 Claw units is just too much.
You can just take 2 of the legendary greatpacks, you don't need to take "the greatpack".
I wonder what the bonus for a standard greatpack is. Or has that come up in the thread already?
Red Corsair wrote: I'll be happy if all they do is fix the dreads and the WSBS of claw units. Makes no sense now that space marine initiates are WS/BS4.
I could see Claw units being Ws4 Bs3 to show the emphasis on controlling Canis Helix in the early stages that Blood Claws have to deal with compared to other Marine chapters.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Agreed with all points. And not to mention, the SW Decurion is essentially a very focused CAD in the first place. Worse than the Gladius. Counter Assault is nice, and Furious Charge is as well, but the price tag in the form of 3-5 Claw units is just too much.
You can just take 2 of the legendary greatpacks, you don't need to take "the greatpack".
I wonder what the bonus for a standard greatpack is. Or has that come up in the thread already?
It came up. It's exactly the same as wolve's unleashed. Jarl of Russ and Cunning of the Wolf.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Agreed with all points. And not to mention, the SW Decurion is essentially a very focused CAD in the first place. Worse than the Gladius. Counter Assault is nice, and Furious Charge is as well, but the price tag in the form of 3-5 Claw units is just too much.
You can just take 2 of the legendary greatpacks, you don't need to take "the greatpack".
I wonder what the bonus for a standard greatpack is. Or has that come up in the thread already?
It came up. It's exactly the same as wolve's unleashed. Jarl of Russ and Cunning of the Wolf.
Well that is fail. Might as well just take the stupid WU then.
Please, I saw some of the Daemon Rules on Faeit212, but I have to ask, is The Grimoire still in the book? All of the Relics look Khorne related, and that'd be lame.
meep277 wrote: Please, I saw some of the Daemon Rules on Faeit212, but I have to ask, is The Grimoire still in the book? All of the Relics look Khorne related, and that'd be lame.
It's almost like there is a thread for all of the Daemon stuff. Right below this one.
meep277 wrote: Please, I saw some of the Daemon Rules on Faeit212, but I have to ask, is The Grimoire still in the book? All of the Relics look Khorne related, and that'd be lame.
It's almost like there is a thread for all of the Daemon stuff. Right below this one.
Iuchiban was posting in here, so this kind of is the place to ask.
meep277, there is no word about Grimoire yet. There's a Tzeentch relic called Unending Grimoire that gives the user access to the full powers of the Change table, but that's a different name from the Grimoire of True Names, so that would not replace it. It's not clear if it's still in, but my gut says... probably.
Oh, I was just thinking. With the new Runepriest Conclave living storm spell.
We can put a Helm of Durfast on a RP for minimum 3d6 S7, ignore cover/jink and re-rolling to hit. Bike squads and skimmer would go down real fast, sicaran-style. Haha.
I have a sinking feeling that the SW Dreads did not get bumped to A4. From the looks of it (though this is not a guarantee), they can't be taken in a unit, so their stats probably remain unchanged. Much sadness.
Rasko wrote: The Necron decurion had some 1 unit formations that gave nothing.
So most likely, the Lord of the Fang, Fangs of the Tempest, and the Curseborn formation will be absolutely nothing. But we can dream right?
No, they don't have a page number for the formation. They are cheap buy in auxiliaries and command. Though they are pretty good. You want a flier with the pack? Just get one and qualify for the auxiliary choice. I surely would want 2 blackmane packs with murderfang, though don't have the money to buy that many drop pods.
So the new things have been released... 10 Wolf Guard/Blood Claws/Grey Hunters for the original price, 20 Blood Claws for a bit more and 5 Wolf Guard for a bit less? Meh
Matthew wrote: So the new things have been released... 10 Wolf Guard/Blood Claws/Grey Hunters for the original price, 20 Blood Claws for a bit more and 5 Wolf Guard for a bit less? Meh
It's 15 Blood Claws, not 20. The Long Fangs have also been released again, not sure what (if anything) has changed on them.
I don't know why they bothered reboxing the same sprue as 1 sprue (WG) 2 sprues (GH) or 3 sprues (BC). The BC one is the best value.
I was just about to ask about the box splits, do you reckon they will have mashed the sprues up? Wolf guard one will have all the power weapons but surely the Blood Claw box is better value as it would give you three sets of wolf guard for the price of 2. But do you think they will have taken most of the power weapons out of the Blood claw box so you couldnt make 3 lots of guard?
Are there definitely supposed to be formations for each chaos god? Thinking about getting some tzeentch to start the army.
Matthew wrote: So the new things have been released... 10 Wolf Guard/Blood Claws/Grey Hunters for the original price, 20 Blood Claws for a bit more and 5 Wolf Guard for a bit less? Meh
Hmmm, if they are boxed this way, perhaps I will pick up two of the Blood Claws sets to supplement my current pack of Grey Hunters. Would bring me up to four packs of 10 Grey Hunters. Especially if it ends up cheaper in the end.
Matthew wrote: So the new things have been released... 10 Wolf Guard/Blood Claws/Grey Hunters for the original price, 20 Blood Claws for a bit more and 5 Wolf Guard for a bit less? Meh
It's 15 Blood Claws, not 20. The Long Fangs have also been released again, not sure what (if anything) has changed on them.
I don't know why they bothered reboxing the same sprue as 1 sprue (WG) 2 sprues (GH) or 3 sprues (BC). The BC one is the best value.
casvalremdeikun wrote: I love that people were bitching about no free transports. But the Blackmanes get them with half the needed models and all of them come in T1. That is going to be absolutely brutal. The supreme Drop Pod army has arrived.
I wonder if there has been any updates to the Claw units to WS4/BS4.
Please let Blood Angels get an update of this caliber, GW!
Yeah, no kidding. ALL of them showing up on T1 is just crazy awesome. It would have been crazy awesome even without the pods being free.
unmercifulconker wrote: I was just about to ask about the box splits, do you reckon they will have mashed the sprues up? Wolf guard one will have all the power weapons but surely the Blood Claw box is better value as it would give you three sets of wolf guard for the price of 2. But do you think they will have taken most of the power weapons out of the Blood claw box so you couldnt make 3 lots of guard?
They can't break up the sprues like that. It's 2 smaller sprues that's manufactured as one large sprue then broken in to 2 sprues for boxing. One of the sprues has all the legs, torsos, heads and shoulder pads. The other sprue has all the arms and weapons, bolters, bolt pistols, chainswords, shield, power weapons.
So they can't just break off the power weapons to include in the WG set and take them out of the BC set, not unless they actually trim individual parts from the sprues (which they aren't going to do).
It makes no sense why they'd waste shelf space for 3 kits when they all contain the exact same sprues.
unmercifulconker wrote: I was just about to ask about the box splits, do you reckon they will have mashed the sprues up? Wolf guard one will have all the power weapons but surely the Blood Claw box is better value as it would give you three sets of wolf guard for the price of 2. But do you think they will have taken most of the power weapons out of the Blood claw box so you couldnt make 3 lots of guard?
They can't break up the sprues like that. It's 2 smaller sprues that's manufactured as one large sprue then broken in to 2 sprues for boxing. One of the sprues has all the legs, torsos, heads and shoulder pads. The other sprue has all the arms and weapons, bolters, bolt pistols, chainswords, shield, power weapons.
So they can't just break off the power weapons to include in the WG set and take them out of the BC set, not unless they actually trim individual parts from the sprues (which they aren't going to do).
It makes no sense why they'd waste shelf space for 3 kits when they all contain the exact same sprues.
Good to know thanks. I guess its GW just being GW then.
casvalremdeikun wrote: I love that people were bitching about no free transports. But the Blackmanes get them with half the needed models and all of them come in T1. That is going to be absolutely brutal. The supreme Drop Pod army has arrived.
I wonder if there has been any updates to the Claw units to WS4/BS4.
Please let Blood Angels get an update of this caliber, GW!
Hopefully this will be a shot in the arm for drop pod wolves and give some viability to Grey Hunters.
As for the claw units I would honestly rather them stay WS3/BS3 if it means not getting a points increase. Bloodclaws and Skyclaws are amazing for being cheap assault marines with their 4 attacks on the charge. No way Bloodclaws can stay at scout prices, get WS4, and keep power armor + their rage special rule while Skyclaws make assault marines look like a joke. Wolf scouts need to either get some special gear/rules to justify their cost or get a points decrease to bring them in line with the new scout stats.
Something I put in a thread about how people think SW is stealing BA's shtick. Well I am stealing it back!
The more I see of the Curse of the Wulfen book, the more I think I could run Death Company as Counts-As Wulfen. Call Curse of the Wulfen the Black Rage. Call my Death Company Dreadnought "Murderfang". Man, I think this might actually work! There is even a formation that lets you run a bunch of Wulfen by themselves and another that let's you run Murderfang on his own. Then just run a CAD with Grey Hunters (read: BA Tactical Marines) and a Wolf Priest (read: Sanguinary Priest), and some Skyclaws (read: Assault Marines). YES! I found a way to bring BA back up! I could even make some SM Bikes and call them Thunderwolf Cavalry!
Chikout wrote: A nice picture of Ulrik from the iTunes preview
I love this model! I think it is a fantastic pose for him. You can almost imagine him stood watching the flow of battle, waiting to see an enemy who may be able to defeat him in battle before smiling, putting his helmet on and charging forward to do battle.
IMO it respects everything that he is, old, venerated and hard as nails.
Mitch311 wrote: Wulfen look a lot nicer in this photo. Seem to be same size roughly as normal marines, but with taller legs?
Notice that GW either didn't use Daniel-san, Son of Murderfang in that image, or there are much better ways to pose him. There are a few objectionable poses there, but otherwise most of them actually look good.
Damn. Space Wolves are looking awesome. And just when I'd sworn off them and sold some OOP stuff on eBay (including a games day wolf priest new in box! )
Like a lot of you I am thinking Blackmanes might be the core (pardon the pun) of a very competitive list.
If my math is right, it has a minimum points cost in the realm of 850pts, which nets you ten free pods. Yes they are minimally useful units, but 20+ units of chaff covering the table, leaves 1000pts for say TWC and Wulfen, and a mountain of table control on your very first turn.
I don't think it would be a fun army, per se... but I can definitely see it being very successful at big tournaments.
casvalremdeikun wrote: I love that people were bitching about no free transports. But the Blackmanes get them with half the needed models and all of them come in T1. That is going to be absolutely brutal. The supreme Drop Pod army has arrived.
I wonder if there has been any updates to the Claw units to WS4/BS4.
Please let Blood Angels get an update of this caliber, GW!
Yeah, no kidding. ALL of them showing up on T1 is just crazy awesome. It would have been crazy awesome even without the pods being free.
If the Space Wolf stuff turns out to be too powerful, I'm sure the ITC will act quickly to nerf Tau.
I see there is a Chaos Daemon release coupled with this for rules and spells - that aren't included in the Chaos Daemon Codex. Really feels like DLC come to 40K
Wulfmar wrote: I see there is a Chaos Daemon release coupled with this for rules and spells - that aren't included in the Chaos Daemon Codex. Really feels like DLC come to 40K
new GW video for the book came out. some things i noticed with the power of the pause button
Iron Priest has 2 wounds with no mount but increased to 75pts base
pistol is 20pts
new hellfrost hammer is only 5pt upgrade
can still take mount
Ulrik stays what looks like the same
Krom can now re-roll failed saves within 3" of an obj
his eye also allows him to re-roll wounds
the wolfkin auxillary formation gives the whole thing monster hunter and outflank
and you can combine all units into one big unit if you have more then 20 it gives +1 attack to the unit
you may also bring in a unit that is already outflanking from the side closest to them without rolling.
that is all i could get as the pause would not work for me while it was sliding the pictures in.
Do Space Wolf Scouts still have special weapons(Meltaguns and Plasma Guns)?
Are the Legendary Great Packs or whatever they're called restricted in any way?
Thimn wrote: Can you confirm that iron priests are now 75pts?
Yes they are.
BONUS (ONE REAL GOOD FORMATION)
The Ironwolves formation:
1 Wolf Lord or Battle leader.
0-1 Wolf Guard or Termintors
2-3 Blood Claws
2-4 Grey Hunters Land Speeders
1-2 Long Fangs
0-1 Wolf Scouts
0-2 Lone Wolfs
Restrictions: The formation have to include enough dedicated transport to embark all non-vehicle model.
Special Rules:
Units of of this detachment may disembark from transport moving up to 12"
Vehicles may move additional 6" when moving flat out.-
Vehicles of this formation may get all upgrades they want for free (weapons and wargear)
Vankraken wrote: Half the Wulfen look like they are staggering drunks. With it being Space Wolves I'm ok with this, just need to green stuff in some bottles.
Do Space Wolf Scouts still have special weapons(Meltaguns and Plasma Guns)?
Are the Legendary Great Packs or whatever they're called restricted in any way?
Scouts do not appear in the book, so they remain 100% the same.
Predators, Whirwinds and Vindicators get same treatment as space marine codex.
Dreadnoughts do not appear. So they dont have 4 attacks.
Thimn wrote: Can you confirm that iron priests are now 75pts?
Yes they are.
BONUS (ONE REAL GOOD FORMATION)
The Ironwolves formation:
1 Wolf Lord or Battle leader.
0-1 Wolf Guard or Termintors
2-3 Blood Claws
2-4 Grey Hunters Land Speeders
1-2 Long Fangs
0-1 Wolf Scouts
0-2 Lone Wolfs
Restrictions: The formation have to include enough dedicated transport to embark all non-vehicle model.
Special Rules:
Units of of this detachment may disembark from transport moving up to 12"
Vehicles may move additional 6" when moving flat out.-
Vehicles of this formation may get all upgrades they want for free (weapons and wargear)
So would landspeeders count as vehicles? Does this mean you can pick the base speeder and add a multimelta and assault cannon for free? (and keep the base price of 50 pts) If so this does give us a bit of much needed firepower.
Thimn wrote: Can you confirm that iron priests are now 75pts?
Yes they are.
BONUS (ONE REAL GOOD FORMATION)
The Ironwolves formation:
1 Wolf Lord or Battle leader.
0-1 Wolf Guard or Termintors
2-3 Blood Claws
2-4 Grey Hunters Land Speeders
1-2 Long Fangs
0-1 Wolf Scouts
0-2 Lone Wolfs
Restrictions: The formation have to include enough dedicated transport to embark all non-vehicle model.
Special Rules:
Units of of this detachment may disembark from transport moving up to 12"
Vehicles may move additional 6" when moving flat out.-
Vehicles of this formation may get all upgrades they want for free (weapons and wargear)
So would landspeeders count as vehicles? Does this mean you can pick the base speeder and add a multimelta and assault cannon for free? (and keep the base price of 50 pts) If so this does give us a bit of much needed firepower.
Iron Priests are 75 points, but get a stat boost, and an extra wound
I believe that would be how it works, it says all Iron wolves vehicles.
Can you please let us know what the Nurgle relics and psyker powers are,please?
Nurgle Artifacts:
Grotti, the nurgling (40 points): -1T to all non-Daemon of Nurgle model at 6"
Corruption (25 points): Combat, wounds automatically, always get a glancing hit if roll to penétrate
Putrefaction horn of Nurgle (35 points): At the end of the combat phase, créate a Plaguebearer for every model killed by the Bearer of the horn.
Epidemy (20 points): +1S, Combat, Specialist, Every time a model is killed with this weapon, unit must take a T test. If failed, the unit suffters a wound (no armour or cover saves allowed)
Bell of the end of the world (30 points): Instrument of Chaos. All enemy units get -1L
Death head of Duque Olaks (15 points): One use only. 12", S1, AP4, Assault 1, Poisoned 2+, 5" blast
Thimn wrote: Can you confirm that iron priests are now 75pts?
Yes they are.
BONUS (ONE REAL GOOD FORMATION)
The Ironwolves formation:
1 Wolf Lord or Battle leader.
0-1 Wolf Guard or Termintors
2-3 Blood Claws
2-4 Grey Hunters Land Speeders
1-2 Long Fangs
0-1 Wolf Scouts
0-2 Lone Wolfs
Restrictions: The formation have to include enough dedicated transport to embark all non-vehicle model.
Special Rules:
Units of of this detachment may disembark from transport moving up to 12"
Vehicles may move additional 6" when moving flat out.-
Vehicles of this formation may get all upgrades they want for free (weapons and wargear)
So would landspeeders count as vehicles? Does this mean you can pick the base speeder and add a multimelta and assault cannon for free? (and keep the base price of 50 pts) If so this does give us a bit of much needed firepower.
Iron Priests are 75 points, but get a stat boost, and an extra wound
I believe that would be how it works, it says all Iron wolves vehicles.
Englishfury- so if I wanted to take a lone wolf, I would have to purchase a drop pod from the FA slot to embark him (since he doesnt have a dedicated option)- what about things like blood claw bikers- I assume you couldnt take them as BCs as you cant put bikes in any transport options?
Okay, through the power of the pause button I've gotten info (but not a lot) on the Daemons formations:
Murderhorde: already seen
Gorethunder Battery: already seen
Warpflame Host: seems to consist of pink horrors and flamers
Burning Skyhost: has screamers and some other things
Tallyband: Seems to be plaguebearers
Rotswarm: has plague drones
Flayertroupe: Daemonettes
Grand Calvarade: Not sure, probably seekers
Infenal tetrad: 4 daemon princes
Forgehost: multiple soul grinders?
Luchiban if you could give us more info on these formations (preferably starting with Tzeentch) that'd be awesome
Thimn wrote: Can you confirm that iron priests are now 75pts?
Yes they are.
BONUS (ONE REAL GOOD FORMATION)
The Ironwolves formation:
1 Wolf Lord or Battle leader.
0-1 Wolf Guard or Termintors
2-3 Blood Claws
2-4 Grey Hunters Land Speeders
1-2 Long Fangs
0-1 Wolf Scouts
0-2 Lone Wolfs
Restrictions: The formation have to include enough dedicated transport to embark all non-vehicle model.
Special Rules:
Units of of this detachment may disembark from transport moving up to 12"
Vehicles may move additional 6" when moving flat out.-
Vehicles of this formation may get all upgrades they want for free (weapons and wargear)
So would landspeeders count as vehicles? Does this mean you can pick the base speeder and add a multimelta and assault cannon for free? (and keep the base price of 50 pts) If so this does give us a bit of much needed firepower.
No Apendix in the samples but rules for Krom like mentioned before in this thread.
Based on how the introduction is worded and the British Library registration in the legal section at the back, it looks like there will be a printed book later as well.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Already posted I guess - Long Fangs
Thimn wrote: Can you confirm that iron priests are now 75pts?
Yes they are.
BONUS (ONE REAL GOOD FORMATION)
The Ironwolves formation:
1 Wolf Lord or Battle leader.
0-1 Wolf Guard or Termintors
2-3 Blood Claws
2-4 Grey Hunters Land Speeders
1-2 Long Fangs
0-1 Wolf Scouts
0-2 Lone Wolfs
Restrictions: The formation have to include enough dedicated transport to embark all non-vehicle model.
Special Rules:
Units of of this detachment may disembark from transport moving up to 12"
Vehicles may move additional 6" when moving flat out.-
Vehicles of this formation may get all upgrades they want for free (weapons and wargear)
So would landspeeders count as vehicles? Does this mean you can pick the base speeder and add a multimelta and assault cannon for free? (and keep the base price of 50 pts) If so this does give us a bit of much needed firepower.
Iron Priests are 75 points, but get a stat boost, and an extra wound
I believe that would be how it works, it says all Iron wolves vehicles.
Englishfury- so if I wanted to take a lone wolf, I would have to purchase a drop pod from the FA slot to embark him (since he doesnt have a dedicated option)- what about things like blood claw bikers- I assume you couldnt take them as BCs as you cant put bikes in any transport options?
here is what it says as far as i can tell.
You must include enough Dedicated Transports with sufficient Transport Capacity to Carry all Non-Vehicle models from this formation.
so I would say no, since they have no Dedicated Transport option.
And can Iron Priests still take a thunderwolf mount?
No new Relics for Wolves.
They can mount a TW for 50 points.
Another Legendary Greatpack:
- THE FIREHOWLERS
1 Wolf Lord or Battale Leader
1 Wolf Guard
2-4 Skyclaws or Swiftclaws
2-4 Grey Hunters, Landspeeders
0-1 Long Fangs
0-1 Scouts
0-2 Lone Wolves
Restrictions: Wolf Lord, Battle Leader and Wolf Guard have to purchase a jump pack or a bike.
Special rules:
Reroll failed charge distances
If an enemiy unit wants to overwatch has to pass L test. Fear when charging
If roll to charge is 10 or more, the unit get Furious charge
THE DRAKESLAYERS
1 Krom or Battle Leader
1-2 Wolf Guard, Terminators
2-3 Blood Claws
2-4 Grey Hunters, Land Speeders
1-2 Long Fangs
0-1 Scouts
0-2 Lone Wolfes
Restrictions: None
Special Rules:
Monster hunter, Stubborn
Characters in this formation have preferred enemy (Characters). If one unit charges successfully, rest of the formation reroll charge distances this turn.
If the formation includes Krom, formation units get Furious charge
Slow the video down to 0.25 and you can pause and see 8 out of 10 of the formations.
Khorne 1 Herald
8 units of either Bloodletters, Bloodcrushers or Fleshhounds
All units gain +1 attack while within 6" of one another.
All units benefit from the Heralds loci if they are within 12" of him.
Another formation:
3 Skull Cannons, squadron, may fire as one with an Apocolyptic Blast with AP3 and still Ignores cover, ouch.
Tzeentch Herald
9 units of either Pink Horrors, Flamers or Exalted Flamers.
+1 Strength to all Warpflame attacks.
All units within 12" of the Herald benefit from his Loci.
Another formation:
1 Herald
9 units of either Screamers of Tzeentch or Burning Chariots
Chariots can do Slash attacks, inflicting D6str 5 ap 4 hits on a unit they move over. Screamers get +1 hit.
All units within 12" of the Herald gain his Loci.
Nurgle 1 Herald
7 units of either Plaguebearers or Nurglings.
Enemies may not fire overwatch at units from this formation.
All units gain the Heralds Loci while within 12".
Another formation:
1 Herald
7 units of either Plague Drones or Beasts
All units gain Hammer of Wrath with poison 4+
1 unit within 12" of the herald may take a leadership test if they pass they can reroll failed charges and gain +3 attacks. If failed they must attempt to charge the nearest enemy.
Slaanesh
1 Herald
6 units of either Fiends of Slaanesh or Daemonettes.
Any enemy units in combat suffer -1 WS and -1I
All units within 12" of the herald benefit from its loci.
Another formation:
1 Herald
6 units from either Seekers, Hellflayer, Seeker Calvacade.
All units move 6" when running or moving flat out.
Not to steal your thunder Luchiban but thought this might save you some typing.
Luchiban can you tell us what Slaanesh gets by way of relics and new powers?
Ok, let's switch to daemons then:
Nurgle Powers:
Primaris: Same as Daemon Codex
1. Malediction.24". Target unit cannot run, Sweeping advances or Overwatch. WC 1
2. Same as 1-2 of Daemon Codex
3. Same as 3-4 of Daemon Codex
4. Same as 5-6 of Daemon Codex
5. Focussed witch fire. 12" AP2, Assault 1, Ignore cover, Instand Death.Instead of Rolling to wound, target must pass a "remaining wound test". If failed, suffers a wound. WC2
6. Blessing. 24". WC1-3. Add +1T for every WC to target unit.
Soulstealer (20 points): AP3, Combat, When killing an enemy model, bearer recovers a wound.
Silver shard (30 points): AP3, Combat, +2 attacks
Lazy Claw (10 points): When attacking in CC, roll one attack separetly. It gets +2S, AP2, Rending, Specialist
Forbidden Gem (15 points): When fighting in a challenge, enemy rolls 3D6 - L. Enemy suffers a penalty to WS and I equal to the result. Mínimum 1.
Agony whip (15 points): AP5, Combat, Reroll to wound. If enemy suffers an unsaved wound, does not attack this turn.
Mark of excess (15 points): 1 A at the end of the game after killing a monster or Character for the rest of the game.
Powers:
Primaris: Same as daemon codex
1. Same as 1-2 of daemon codex
2. Same as 3-4 of daemon codex
3. Blessing, 24", Unit suffers D6 S3 AP- hits but get: Furious charge, Rage and Zealot
4. WC1. Malediction. 18", Unit must pass a L test if they want to do anything.
5. Witch fire. 24", S4, AP4, Assault 1 5" blast, Any unit cover by the template suffer must pass L test or suffer D6 S4, AP4 hits.
6. Same as 5-6 daemon codex.
Man... at a glance, Wulfen are a fun, and viable unit, and addition to the Wolves, but who would've guessed Demons would end up getting the better over-all content from these releases.
Outside of the Murderpack formation, and maybe the Blackmane Greatpack... SWs seem to have fared pretty poorly.
Also, having the inferior Dread stat-lines despite having cooler Dread models makes me a sad panda. :-(
How to get the artefacts ? (I have not seen that heroes can spend X points to wear them )
And the last.
How to get the benefits of daemon decurion? (how many units/formations are necessary)
Models that are able to purchase Rewards, can purchase an (and only one) Artifact as well for the point cost.
Daemon Decurión is:
Basic 1+
Command:0-4
Aux: 1+
Basic: Murderhorde, Warpflame host, Tallyband, Flayertroupe
Command: 1 Daemon Lord (Great Daemons or DP), Infernal Tetrad
Aux: The rest of the formations
Incidentally, does this mean the old Champions of Fenris, Company of the Great Wolf detachment is dead? I rather loved it, and still think its our default.
I was thinking of running it, and the new Murderpack formation together.
As for what I'm reading on those formations... these are Apocalypse-only formations, or unbound formations. Compared to the formations I've been seeing in other codicies that can be used in regular games, I'm inclined to say that, if nothing else, Games Workshop keeps finding in the worst possible places to implement the gods' respective numbers.
Units within 12 inches of a Land Raider gets POTMS, one vehicle within 6 inches of an Iron Priests chooses one of the following: Monster Hunter, Precision Shots, Tank Hunter, Preferred enemy
WYRDSTORM RUNEPRIESTS
2-5 Runepriests
Harness Warp Charges with 3+ when using Tempestas discipline.
Every turn choose a Rune Priest of the formation. That one gets the following power:
– Livinstorm (WC3)
24″, S7, AP– Assault 2D6, Shock (For every 6 you get +2 hits). Add +1D6 attacks to the power for every Runepriest in the formation beyond the 1st.
THE BLACKMANES
Ragnar Blackmane or Wolf Guard Battle Leader
1 unit of Wolf guard, Terminators or Thunderwolves
3-5 units of Blood Claws, Skyclaws or Swiftclaws
0-1 Lukas
4-6 Grey Hunters, Land Speeders
1-2 Long Fangs
1 Wolf scouts
0-2 Lone Wolves
Units disembarking from a Drop Pod get Fearless and FnP6+ that turn.
If Ragnar is on the battlefield, all “Claw” units reroll to hit in combat
All unit that normally can purchase a Drop Pod, can get it for free. Have to pay the upgrades. All Drop Pods of this formation enter the battlefield in turn 1.
Wulfen murderpack:
2-5 units of Wulfen
Add +1 to the curse of the wulfen roll for every unit on the battlefield.
There is a 7+ result.
– Hunt: Affected units can move twice this turn. (THAT ONE IS GOOD)
– Kill: Affected units get +1A
The Wulfen units that get an additional attack for every 6 to hit in combat – (is that an additional hit or an additional attack?) 1 additional A for every 6 to hit. (does that proc off of secondary hits?) – Yes, as long as you roll 6’s to hit…
Ancients of the Fang
1 Iron Priest
2-? Dreadnoughts (not sure if it includes Contemptors)
All Dreads within 6 inches of Iron Priest gets IWND
Counts as a squadron, 3 or more Dreads re-roll hits in close combat
and another rule I can't read
HERALDS OF THE GREAT WOLF
Wolf, Iron and Rune Priest
Counts as a single unit, they lose IC.
The unit gains a benefit as long as the corresponding model is alive:
Wolf Priest - IWND Rune Priest - enemies who shoot at the unit get BS -1
Iron Priest - ignore the first failed saving throw each phase
And another rule I can't read
WOLFKIN
2-5 Fenrisian Wolves
Monster Hunter, Outflank
All Wolves may be merged into a single alpha pack. All Wolves gain +1A in CC if there are 20 or more in the alpha pack
If Wolfkin is within 12 inches of left or right table edge any outflanking SW unit may deploy there (not sure if you roll for reserves or not)
All units can disembark even if the vehicle moved 12 inches
All weapons and wargear is free
All vehicles move 6 inches more when moving flat out, enemies tankshocked get a -2 penalty on their leadership
I don't believe its "all weapons and wargear is free", but rather all vehicle upgrades/weapons/etc... are free. BIG potential difference. :-p
I know, but it is still the winner. Free RB upgrades, free LS upgrades, etc. are pretty awesome. Even the Stormwolf is better if you get all free upgrades.
Yeah, there really isnt anything remotely comparable to the 7th edition codexes for SW. The best they can get is the Ironwolves and ironically the most UNwolfy thing possible gets the boost, a land speeder. All the other formations/bonuses are a big whiff. The iron priest gaining a wound for 20 pts will just make more people take wolfstars with more IPs- which is in no way good for Space Wolves as a faction.
Automatically Appended Next Post: 50 pt landspeeder with Meltas/CML I would think will be the norm, in addition to razorbacks with LAS/PLAS and a hunter killer missile on top. It is the best you can get out of this. I would think now instead of just a giant wolfstar, you will have min sized squads which fit into razorbacks and landspeeders backed up by as many thunderwolves/IPs on TWC you can get- not what I think of when I read the Black Library books.
Models that are able to purchase Rewards, can purchase an (and only one) Artifact as well for the point cost.
Daemon Decurión is:
Basic 1+
Command:0-4
Aux: 1+
Basic: Murderhorde, Warpflame host, Tallyband, Flayertroupe
Command: 1 Daemon Lord (Great Daemons or DP), Infernal Tetrad
Aux: The rest of the formations
Oh sorry. I even read that post earlier. It's interesting that it's *any* rewards, and *as well*. Looks like you can have a demon relic and a new relic
Okay so just the soul grinder formation
And the warlord traits and tactical objectives were missing then?
sturguard wrote: Yeah, there really isnt anything remotely comparable to the 7th edition codexes for SW. The best they can get is the Ironwolves and ironically the most UNwolfy thing possible gets the boost, a land speeder. All the other formations/bonuses are a big whiff. The iron priest gaining a wound for 20 pts will just make more people take wolfstars with more IPs- which is in no way good for Space Wolves as a faction.
Automatically Appended Next Post: 50 pt landspeeder with Meltas/CML I would think will be the norm, in addition to razorbacks with LAS/PLAS and a hunter killer missile on top. It is the best you can get out of this. I would think now instead of just a giant wolfstar, you will have min sized squads which fit into razorbacks and landspeeders backed up by as many thunderwolves/IPs on TWC you can get- not what I think of when I read the Black Library books.
That's what I have been running for a while, either drop wolves or razorwolves with TWC. Goes all the way back to razorspam in 5th.
sturguard wrote: Yeah, there really isnt anything remotely comparable to the 7th edition codexes for SW. The best they can get is the Ironwolves and ironically the most UNwolfy thing possible gets the boost, a land speeder. All the other formations/bonuses are a big whiff. The iron priest gaining a wound for 20 pts will just make more people take wolfstars with more IPs- which is in no way good for Space Wolves as a faction.
Automatically Appended Next Post: 50 pt landspeeder with Meltas/CML I would think will be the norm, in addition to razorbacks with LAS/PLAS and a hunter killer missile on top. It is the best you can get out of this. I would think now instead of just a giant wolfstar, you will have min sized squads which fit into razorbacks and landspeeders backed up by as many thunderwolves/IPs on TWC you can get- not what I think of when I read the Black Library books.
That's what I have been running for a while, either drop wolves or razorwolves with TWC. Goes all the way back to razorspam in 5th.
I guess in some ways GW did me a favor, I don't have to spend any money on this release at all (and that is coming from a guy who started Space Wolves in the early 90s). I have 3 speeders that have been collecting dust because they are loaded with AC and MM and were so expensive I could never justify using them. I have 2 Razorbacks, a rhino and 5 pods. No blood claws, but I will use my GH's as count as BCs. One unit of Thunderwolves. and who knows what else to fill it out. What is the Murderfang formation? Isnt it just 1 Murderfang- can he be in a pod? I have 3 dreads (one of every edition, metal, first SM venerable plastic and the new SW one), if I could get them on the board, that is good too. I dont think I will purchase the books as I will just be using that one formation, and I think I will buy just the one box of wulfen for parts and make more of a 30k version with forge worlds help. I already have 10 metal ones painted, they are easy to cut hands off and I can simply add the new thunderhammer/storm shield combo or ice claws.
Why didn't they bring the dreadnoughts in line with the SM's. I don't understand. We have the best CC dreadnought in the game with the axe/shield and it is barely playable with 2 measly attacks. But the SM dreadnought attacks 4 times... Seriously, what the hell?
Rasko wrote: Sigh. What were GW thinking. ARHGGGG!
Why didn't they bring the dreadnoughts in line with the SM's. I don't understand. We have the best CC dreadnought in the game with the axe/shield and it is barely playable with 2 measly attacks. But the SM dreadnought attacks 4 times... Seriously, what the hell?
Isn't the whole idea of swapping a second close combat weapon for a shield exactly that?
Rasko wrote: Sigh. What were GW thinking. ARHGGGG!
Why didn't they bring the dreadnoughts in line with the SM's. I don't understand. We have the best CC dreadnought in the game with the axe/shield and it is barely playable with 2 measly attacks. But the SM dreadnought attacks 4 times... Seriously, what the hell?
Isn't the whole idea of swapping a second close combat weapon for a shield exactly that?
SM dreads have a MM and a power fist. SW dreads have an axe and shield.
SM dreads get 4 attacks... SW dreads get 2 attacks...
?? I mean... I guess if you are thinking about it like the SM dread is swinging his MM around like another melee weapon. -_-
But the SW blizzard shield actually has a melee weapon profile. So, it still doesn't really make sense. IMO.
Rasko wrote: Sigh. What were GW thinking. ARHGGGG!
Why didn't they bring the dreadnoughts in line with the SM's. I don't understand. We have the best CC dreadnought in the game with the axe/shield and it is barely playable with 2 measly attacks. But the SM dreadnought attacks 4 times... Seriously, what the hell?
Isn't the whole idea of swapping a second close combat weapon for a shield exactly that?
To have less attacks? I am not quite sure what you are inferring. A normal SM dread has a gun, 4 attacks and doesnt need to be upgraded to venerable status so is fairly cheap around 100 pts. The Axe/Shield dread costs 145 as you have to upgrade it to venerable before you can spend the 25 pts to take the axe/shield- its really a shame. It would have been more playable if it at least got 3 attacks as they classified both the axe and shield as a specialist weapon and then not had you upgrade to be able to take the axe/shield- so it would come in around 125.
Oh, I didn't know that. I haven't really gotten into the game much. It sounded like you could've been talking about a close combat dread.
Also, looks like that exclusive wulfen formation just sold out. It probably sold out before 2 hours passed. I wonder how many Games Workshop even had...
Does anyone have the rules for the daggerfist formation or whatever they limited edition one was? It had a bunch of termies and the flier.
Automatically Appended Next Post: The Champions of Fenris formation isnt horrible, it isnt competitive but it gives Logan back his old abilities only this time he transfers them to units around him in a bubble. GW is not very inventive are they. I could see a part drop pod list doing fair well, except you could drop long fangs in pods near Logan, he would give them relentless and let them shoot.
sturguard wrote: Automatically Appended Next Post: The Champions of Fenris formation isnt horrible, it isnt competitive but it gives Logan back his old abilities only this time he transfers them to units around him in a bubble. GW is not very inventive are they. I could see a part drop pod list doing fair well, except you could drop long fangs in pods near Logan, he would give them relentless and let them shoot.
From what I can see on the screen cap. CoF is minimum
-Logan
-2 guard units
-3 claw units
-4 GH/LS -2 long fangs
-1 scout
Giving 12" high king aura and kingsguard (can't see whole page, so there might be another buff). That's a lot of tax vs CotGW to trade re-roll warlord trait for 12" aura. For Champions of Fenris, I'm really hoping there is another buff under there since you have to pay the most tax out of all the greatpacks.
I dunno, looking at all these greatpacks, usually, you have to pay a lot of of tax. And you have to take 2 greatpacks if you want to get fear + furious charge.
Also, none of these greatpacks have a generic Heavy slot. So if you want to run Decurion, you can't field a Relic Sicaran (if that matters to anyone).
Rasko wrote: Sigh. What were GW thinking. ARHGGGG!
Why didn't they bring the dreadnoughts in line with the SM's. I don't understand. We have the best CC dreadnought in the game with the axe/shield and it is barely playable with 2 measly attacks. But the SM dreadnought attacks 4 times... Seriously, what the hell?
Isn't the whole idea of swapping a second close combat weapon for a shield exactly that?
To have less attacks? I am not quite sure what you are inferring. A normal SM dread has a gun, 4 attacks and doesnt need to be upgraded to venerable status so is fairly cheap around 100 pts. The Axe/Shield dread costs 145 as you have to upgrade it to venerable before you can spend the 25 pts to take the axe/shield- its really a shame. It would have been more playable if it at least got 3 attacks as they classified both the axe and shield as a specialist weapon and then not had you upgrade to be able to take the axe/shield- so it would come in around 125.
From what I understand this isn't the "New Codex", is it? It's just a bunch of pieces and the Wulfen, so more like what IG got in the last campaign book - right? SM Dreadnoughts have 4 attacks because their (and the DA) codex got updated, and in 7th Ed Dreadnoughts are getting 4 attacks base and can form squadrons. Once there is a new SW codex I'm sure you'll get your 4 attacks.
nekooni wrote: From what I understand this isn't the "New Codex", is it? It's just a bunch of pieces and the Wulfen, so more like what IG got in the last campaign book - right? SM Dreadnoughts have 4 attacks because their (and the DA) codex got updated, and in 7th Ed Dreadnoughts are getting 4 attacks base and can form squadrons. Once there is a new SW codex I'm sure you'll get your 4 attacks.
You're right, it's not the new codex but they updated iron priest stats. Could have done the same with dreadnoughts. Especially when they added Ancients of the Fang... which is hilariously ironic since it is a dreadnought vehicle squadron with a re-roll to hit in CC bonus while 3 or more is alive.
After seeing the new Wulfen's Pack Leader, I had the thought that you could remove the rock and skulls he's standing on, replace it with a banana peel, and he wouldn't look any less silly.
nekooni wrote: From what I understand this isn't the "New Codex", is it? It's just a bunch of pieces and the Wulfen, so more like what IG got in the last campaign book - right? SM Dreadnoughts have 4 attacks because their (and the DA) codex got updated, and in 7th Ed Dreadnoughts are getting 4 attacks base and can form squadrons. Once there is a new SW codex I'm sure you'll get your 4 attacks.
You're right, it's not the new codex but they updated iron priest stats. Could have done the same with dreadnoughts. Especially when they added Ancients of the Fang... which is hilariously ironic since it is a dreadnought vehicle squadron with a re-roll to hit in CC bonus while 3 or more is alive.
I don't think we know yet with 100% certainty that SW Dreads are being 'forgotten' about and left at the old stats.
Besides, even if the campaign book doesn't update them, odds are that SW's are getting a physical re-print of their codex like Tau got with their two-part campaign release. There's still a chance for SW Dreads to get updated, which is a lot more than can be said for us poor Daemons.
nekooni wrote: From what I understand this isn't the "New Codex", is it? It's just a bunch of pieces and the Wulfen, so more like what IG got in the last campaign book - right? SM Dreadnoughts have 4 attacks because their (and the DA) codex got updated, and in 7th Ed Dreadnoughts are getting 4 attacks base and can form squadrons. Once there is a new SW codex I'm sure you'll get your 4 attacks.
You're right, it's not the new codex but they updated iron priest stats. Could have done the same with dreadnoughts. Especially when they added Ancients of the Fang... which is hilariously ironic since it is a dreadnought vehicle squadron with a re-roll to hit in CC bonus while 3 or more is alive.
I don't think we know yet with 100% certainty that SW Dreads are being 'forgotten' about and left at the old stats.
Besides, even if the campaign book doesn't update them, odds are that SW's are getting a physical re-print of their codex like Tau got with their two-part campaign release. There's still a chance for SW Dreads to get updated, which is a lot more than can be said for us poor Daemons.
The SW are getting a new codex, it's been up on the Black Library site all day (Codex:Space Wolves Curse of the Wulfen Edition). This is separate from the campaign book.
One major item from that codex is that Blood Claws are not getting the SM scout treatment. The preview on iTunes still has them at WS/BS 3.
nekooni wrote: From what I understand this isn't the "New Codex", is it? It's just a bunch of pieces and the Wulfen, so more like what IG got in the last campaign book - right? SM Dreadnoughts have 4 attacks because their (and the DA) codex got updated, and in 7th Ed Dreadnoughts are getting 4 attacks base and can form squadrons. Once there is a new SW codex I'm sure you'll get your 4 attacks.
You're right, it's not the new codex but they updated iron priest stats. Could have done the same with dreadnoughts. Especially when they added Ancients of the Fang... which is hilariously ironic since it is a dreadnought vehicle squadron with a re-roll to hit in CC bonus while 3 or more is alive.
I don't think we know yet with 100% certainty that SW Dreads are being 'forgotten' about and left at the old stats.
Besides, even if the campaign book doesn't update them, odds are that SW's are getting a physical re-print of their codex like Tau got with their two-part campaign release. There's still a chance for SW Dreads to get updated, which is a lot more than can be said for us poor Daemons.
The SW are getting a new codex, it's been up on the Black Library site all day (Codex:Space Wolves Curse of the Wulfen Edition). This is separate from the campaign book.
One major item from that codex is that Blood Claws are not getting the SM scout treatment. The preview on iTunes still has them at WS/BS 3.
While WS4 would make sense, BS4 makes no sense for Blood Claws. Space Wolves don't extensively train their recruits in the use of firearms like other Chapters do - they literally just implant & hypno-educate their recruits.
But then, WS3 isn't the end of the world for Claws, since they do get Rage for added attacks on the charge and can gain larger squads than normal. Their 3+ also lets them survive retaliations better than basic Scouts too.
This is more a fluff thing
Our Scouts are Veterans while others are recruits in training.
Now the other recruits have the same veteran skills like a full trained Space Marine while our recruits have the same stats llike a common guard soldier.
PS:
Of course, in my opinion the main problem is that full grown SM should have 5's instead of 4's as basic values. Than there would be a difference between an superhuman genetic raised killer machine and a guard soldier who can shoot a little bit better.
I just realized with some irony that I am sitting here brain-storming lists for SW that look suspiciously like my Gray Knights lists... super elite, and low model/unit count. Perhaps the worse realization is SW will do it far more successfully.
Three well-geared 5-man Wulfen in a Murderpack, and three MSU but decently geared TWC units have a 50/50 shot on turn one of charging almost anything with impunity. Problem is of course that that leaves 550pts at 1850pts, for a Wolf Lord and required Elites if i'm running this as Company of the Great Wolf.
I'm pretty sure it'll be terrible... so of course I just gave GW $$$ for three boxes of those damn Wulfen to try it. :-p
kodos wrote: This is more a fluff thing
Our Scouts are Veterans while others are recruits in training.
Now the other recruits have the same veteran skills like a full trained Space Marine while our recruits have the same stats llike a common guard soldier.
PS:
Of course, in my opinion the main problem is that full grown SM should have 5's instead of 4's as basic values. Than there would be a difference between an superhuman genetic raised killer machine and a guard soldier who can shoot a little bit better.
And, of course, the real culprit here is the D6 based system. Bring on D20s! (Not sure if I'm joking here).
How many of these Campaign book bundles have they released now? This is the first one I've had any interest in, and looking at it I'm strongly reminded of the last batch of WFB books. The price is the same as well. Hmm...
nekooni wrote: From what I understand this isn't the "New Codex", is it? It's just a bunch of pieces and the Wulfen, so more like what IG got in the last campaign book - right? SM Dreadnoughts have 4 attacks because their (and the DA) codex got updated, and in 7th Ed Dreadnoughts are getting 4 attacks base and can form squadrons. Once there is a new SW codex I'm sure you'll get your 4 attacks.
You're right, it's not the new codex but they updated iron priest stats. Could have done the same with dreadnoughts. Especially when they added Ancients of the Fang... which is hilariously ironic since it is a dreadnought vehicle squadron with a re-roll to hit in CC bonus while 3 or more is alive.
I don't think we know yet with 100% certainty that SW Dreads are being 'forgotten' about and left at the old stats.
Besides, even if the campaign book doesn't update them, odds are that SW's are getting a physical re-print of their codex like Tau got with their two-part campaign release. There's still a chance for SW Dreads to get updated, which is a lot more than can be said for us poor Daemons.
The SW are getting a new codex, it's been up on the Black Library site all day (Codex:Space Wolves Curse of the Wulfen Edition). This is separate from the campaign book.
One major item from that codex is that Blood Claws are not getting the SM scout treatment. The preview on iTunes still has them at WS/BS 3.
While WS4 would make sense, BS4 makes no sense for Blood Claws. Space Wolves don't extensively train their recruits in the use of firearms like other Chapters do - they literally just implant & hypno-educate their recruits.
But then, WS3 isn't the end of the world for Claws, since they do get Rage for added attacks on the charge and can gain larger squads than normal. Their 3+ also lets them survive retaliations better than basic Scouts too.
What Black Library book are you pulling that Blood Claw info from? I have read them all and in several instances they refer to the rigorous training that takes place to become a Grey Hunter- ie what you do as a Blood Claw. In fact one of the books describes a team of Grey Hunters training some Blood Claw recruits. The reason Blood Claws have BS3 is just GWs way of reflecting that they are headstrong and don't have much restraint from charging into battle. There are instances of space marines of all flavors having this issue, however, besides Black Templars, Space Wolves were the only faction to have 2 types of marine entries, so they had to (from a gaming perspective) distinguish them. Honestly the WS3/BS3 thing is fine, however, they should be able to take 2 assault weapons, flamers at least. No one would ever put a plasma pistol on them with BS3, pfist is way too expensive for 25 pts, especially in later rounds where you get 1 attack at WS3- it doesnt really matter if they made then 12 or 10 pts, there isnt much they can do besides just hop on an objective in their current state (unless the stars align and they somehow make it into combat with a full squad intact and get the charge- which is a ton of ifs).
Not sure if this has come up already. Tried searching the thread and didn't see anything. Did they screw up again by making the transfers for Logan Grimnar's great company black instead of white? Ordered this and didn't notice until after. Kinda pissed.
Saelan wrote: Not sure if this has come up already. Tried searching the thread and didn't see anything. Did they screw up again by making the transfers for Logan Grimnar's great company black instead of white? Ordered this and didn't notice until after. Kinda pissed.
Yes they did. I have the limited edition ones with the white great company symbol. Better hold on to them in case I fold and get more space wolves.
nekooni wrote: From what I understand this isn't the "New Codex", is it? It's just a bunch of pieces and the Wulfen, so more like what IG got in the last campaign book - right? SM Dreadnoughts have 4 attacks because their (and the DA) codex got updated, and in 7th Ed Dreadnoughts are getting 4 attacks base and can form squadrons. Once there is a new SW codex I'm sure you'll get your 4 attacks.
You're right, it's not the new codex but they updated iron priest stats. Could have done the same with dreadnoughts. Especially when they added Ancients of the Fang... which is hilariously ironic since it is a dreadnought vehicle squadron with a re-roll to hit in CC bonus while 3 or more is alive.
I don't think we know yet with 100% certainty that SW Dreads are being 'forgotten' about and left at the old stats.
Besides, even if the campaign book doesn't update them, odds are that SW's are getting a physical re-print of their codex like Tau got with their two-part campaign release. There's still a chance for SW Dreads to get updated, which is a lot more than can be said for us poor Daemons.
The SW are getting a new codex, it's been up on the Black Library site all day (Codex:Space Wolves Curse of the Wulfen Edition). This is separate from the campaign book.
One major item from that codex is that Blood Claws are not getting the SM scout treatment. The preview on iTunes still has them at WS/BS 3.
While WS4 would make sense, BS4 makes no sense for Blood Claws. Space Wolves don't extensively train their recruits in the use of firearms like other Chapters do - they literally just implant & hypno-educate their recruits.
But then, WS3 isn't the end of the world for Claws, since they do get Rage for added attacks on the charge and can gain larger squads than normal. Their 3+ also lets them survive retaliations better than basic Scouts too.
What Black Library book are you pulling that Blood Claw info from? I have read them all and in several instances they refer to the rigorous training that takes place to become a Grey Hunter- ie what you do as a Blood Claw. In fact one of the books describes a team of Grey Hunters training some Blood Claw recruits. The reason Blood Claws have BS3 is just GWs way of reflecting that they are headstrong and don't have much restraint from charging into battle. There are instances of space marines of all flavors having this issue, however, besides Black Templars, Space Wolves were the only faction to have 2 types of marine entries, so they had to (from a gaming perspective) distinguish them. Honestly the WS3/BS3 thing is fine, however, they should be able to take 2 assault weapons, flamers at least. No one would ever put a plasma pistol on them with BS3, pfist is way too expensive for 25 pts, especially in later rounds where you get 1 attack at WS3- it doesnt really matter if they made then 12 or 10 pts, there isnt much they can do besides just hop on an objective in their current state (unless the stars align and they somehow make it into combat with a full squad intact and get the charge- which is a ton of ifs).
Honestly I see where you're coming from, but the main gripe now is our wolf scouts are an elites slot compared to other SM armies with absolutely nothing to gain besides different equipment now that all SM scouts are ws/bs 4. The blood claw unit was our variant to their stat line and with the basic scouts boosted its not only a kick to our other basic troop but a bigger why bother to an elite slot. Blood claws need a boost of some kind definitely but it's an unlikely thing.
As for tactics and points discussion this isn't really the thread.
bubber wrote: Haven't seen this posted yet (from Space Wolves fb page):
Is it possible to change the heads - Ulrik wearing his helm while holding the old man's head in his hand?
Who in the world would pay 25 points for a Helfrost pistol?
The pistol is 20pts for a str 8 ap 1 shot that can wipe eternal warrior's and MC/GC on an opponents unlucky roll. You can upgrade the thunderhammer to a helfrost variant for 5pts
I understand what helfrost does, but at that expense and the fact that if the Iron Priest is on a thunderwolf he generally wont be shooting much it is too costly.
sturguard wrote: I understand what helfrost does, but at that expense and the fact that if the Iron Priest is on a thunderwolf he generally wont be shooting much it is too costly.
Yea, it is pointless. Even the tempest hammer upgrade is barely justifiable. Anything you want helfrost against has S5-6 already :"(.
Its a 1 in 6 on something you might use 2-3 times- but you also only have 1 shot at a time and you have to roll to hit and wound with those 2-3 total attacks. If you use it twice, you hit/wound 1 time and then .16% of the time your opponent fails. You use the black mace in melee and you have more than 1-2 attacks- it is infinitely more useful and probable.
Furthermore, let me ask you this in terms of game mechanics, does it make for good games. Lets say I drop in a pod, and the IP shoots your demon price and that instance that only happens about .08% of the time (Between hitting, wounding and you rolling a "6") comes up. Do you think most people are going to think that is fun? They just lost a 200 pt model to a single helfrost shot that cost 20 pts. Now on the other hand, if I buy the helfrost and spend 2 whole games not having an opponent fail a save or getting into close enough range to use it- is it worth it to me? It was like the old Jaws of the World Wolf that everyone got so angry about. Draw the line, pass the psychic test, if you fail an initiative test you are removed from play (and MCs had a -1 to their roll)- most of the time it did nothing, yeah you might kill a model here and there but nothing big, but when people lost their expensive model the spell was broken, cheesy and OP- once again, bad gaming mechanic.
sturguard wrote: Its a 1 in 6 on something you might use 2-3 times- but you also only have 1 shot at a time and you have to roll to hit and wound with those 2-3 total attacks. If you use it twice, you hit/wound 1 time and then .16% of the time your opponent fails. You use the black mace in melee and you have more than 1-2 attacks- it is infinitely more useful and probable.
Furthermore, let me ask you this in terms of game mechanics, does it make for good games. Lets say I drop in a pod, and the IP shoots your demon price and that instance that only happens about .08% of the time (Between hitting, wounding and you rolling a "6") comes up. Do you think most people are going to think that is fun? They just lost a 200 pt model to a single helfrost shot that cost 20 pts. Now on the other hand, if I buy the helfrost and spend 2 whole games not having an opponent fail a save or getting into close enough range to use it- is it worth it to me? It was like the old Jaws of the World Wolf that everyone got so angry about. Draw the line, pass the psychic test, if you fail an initiative test you are removed from play (and MCs had a -1 to their roll)- most of the time it did nothing, yeah you might kill a model here and there but nothing big, but when people lost their expensive model the spell was broken, cheesy and OP- once again, bad gaming mechanic.
You can argue the same for D weapons outside of Apoc games.... Cheesy broken mechanics.
Or FW making models with rules which can give an army a massive edge on the field.
Its what GW do.
And personally, if my Hellfrost takes out a demon prince with one shot, great! I dont really care that my opponent didnt get to wipe out half my army with him. I am so sorry that its not that "fun" for him, but is it fun for anyone taking models off the table? Oh, my LR was 250 points and someone popped it with 1 melta shot and killed all the wulfen inside. Can I go home and cry now?
Garrlor wrote: I am so sorry that its not that "fun" for him, but is it fun for anyone taking models off the table?
It's certainly less fun when it's a significant portion of your army being lost to an unlucky 6. And that's the whole point of the discussion, bad game mechanics which lead to un-fun situations.
Oh, my LR was 250 points and someone popped it with 1 melta shot and killed all the wulfen inside. Can I go home and cry now?
Firstly, don't be silly, no one is talking about crying, we're talking about bad game mechanics. Secondly, err, yeah, people talk about the vehicle damage table being bad game mechanics as well. So your argument is "this other rule is daft, so other daft rules are fine".
sturguard wrote: Its a 1 in 6 on something you might use 2-3 times- but you also only have 1 shot at a time and you have to roll to hit and wound with those 2-3 total attacks. If you use it twice, you hit/wound 1 time and then .16% of the time your opponent fails. You use the black mace in melee and you have more than 1-2 attacks- it is infinitely more useful and probable.
Furthermore, let me ask you this in terms of game mechanics, does it make for good games. Lets say I drop in a pod, and the IP shoots your demon price and that instance that only happens about .08% of the time (Between hitting, wounding and you rolling a "6") comes up. Do you think most people are going to think that is fun? They just lost a 200 pt model to a single helfrost shot that cost 20 pts. Now on the other hand, if I buy the helfrost and spend 2 whole games not having an opponent fail a save or getting into close enough range to use it- is it worth it to me? It was like the old Jaws of the World Wolf that everyone got so angry about. Draw the line, pass the psychic test, if you fail an initiative test you are removed from play (and MCs had a -1 to their roll)- most of the time it did nothing, yeah you might kill a model here and there but nothing big, but when people lost their expensive model the spell was broken, cheesy and OP- once again, bad gaming mechanic.
You can argue the same for D weapons outside of Apoc games.... Cheesy broken mechanics.
Or FW making models with rules which can give an army a massive edge on the field.
Its what GW do.
And personally, if my Hellfrost takes out a demon prince with one shot, great! I dont really care that my opponent didnt get to wipe out half my army with him. I am so sorry that its not that "fun" for him, but is it fun for anyone taking models off the table? Oh, my LR was 250 points and someone popped it with 1 melta shot and killed all the wulfen inside. Can I go home and cry now?
I will reinforce what AllSeeing Skink pointed out- no one is crying, but rather just pointing out bad mechanics by GW and they get away with it because alot of the players are all too happy to buy 3 Riptides and 2 Stormsurges, or whole armies of Knight etc which just lead to games being decided by turn 3. My opinion, leave the hellfrost at home, Ill take the 20 pts and add another body on the ground or give something else a storm shield. I don't like banking on 1/12 odds or whatever it is to activate a gimmick.
sturguard wrote: Its a 1 in 6 on something you might use 2-3 times- but you also only have 1 shot at a time and you have to roll to hit and wound with those 2-3 total attacks. If you use it twice, you hit/wound 1 time and then .16% of the time your opponent fails. You use the black mace in melee and you have more than 1-2 attacks- it is infinitely more useful and probable.
Furthermore, let me ask you this in terms of game mechanics, does it make for good games. Lets say I drop in a pod, and the IP shoots your demon price and that instance that only happens about .08% of the time (Between hitting, wounding and you rolling a "6") comes up. Do you think most people are going to think that is fun? They just lost a 200 pt model to a single helfrost shot that cost 20 pts. Now on the other hand, if I buy the helfrost and spend 2 whole games not having an opponent fail a save or getting into close enough range to use it- is it worth it to me? It was like the old Jaws of the World Wolf that everyone got so angry about. Draw the line, pass the psychic test, if you fail an initiative test you are removed from play (and MCs had a -1 to their roll)- most of the time it did nothing, yeah you might kill a model here and there but nothing big, but when people lost their expensive model the spell was broken, cheesy and OP- once again, bad gaming mechanic.
You can argue the same for D weapons outside of Apoc games.... Cheesy broken mechanics.
Or FW making models with rules which can give an army a massive edge on the field.
Its what GW do.
And personally, if my Hellfrost takes out a demon prince with one shot, great! I dont really care that my opponent didnt get to wipe oTut half my army with him. I am so sorry that its not that "fun" for him, but is it fun for anyone taking models off the table? Oh, my LR was 250 points and someone popped it with 1 melta shot and killed all the wulfen inside. Can I go home and cry now?
I will reinforce what AllSeeing Skink pointed out- no one is crying, but rather just pointing out bad mechanics by GW and they get away with it because alot of the players are all too happy to buy 3 Riptides and 2 Stormsurges, or whole armies of Knight etc which just lead to games being decided by turn 3. My opinion, leave the hellfrost at home, Ill take the 20 pts and add another body on the ground or give something else a storm shield. I don't like banking on 1/12 odds or whatever it is to activate a gimmick.
Thats nothing. Orks have, or maybe had, a combi-rokkit gun. That was a gun that HIT once every three games. Now tell me thats worth taking. But seriously, gak happens because of die rolls in this game. I've seen 1000 points of models lost turn one to alpha strike / Ordnance barrage. How is that fun for the guy who sets up his army then removes half of it before he gets to roll a single die. Its just how 40K works and has always worked. There are sometimes when your favorite models just goes poof without doing anything and all you can do is laugh, because really, what other option is there?
If I'm taking an Iron Priest, I'm taking him for his CC ability and wolf entourage, not for the chance to shoot a frost pistol. I just hope the gun can show up in other places. Its really no more dangerous / threatening than a few other guns I can think of.
I have a question. Seeing as how this is not a new codex, can I still use the iron priest from the codex or do I have to use the new one? I would personally rather have the Priest taking up a elite slot than a extra wound.
sturguard wrote: Its a 1 in 6 on something you might use 2-3 times- but you also only have 1 shot at a time and you have to roll to hit and wound with those 2-3 total attacks. If you use it twice, you hit/wound 1 time and then .16% of the time your opponent fails. You use the black mace in melee and you have more than 1-2 attacks- it is infinitely more useful and probable.
Furthermore, let me ask you this in terms of game mechanics, does it make for good games. Lets say I drop in a pod, and the IP shoots your demon price and that instance that only happens about .08% of the time (Between hitting, wounding and you rolling a "6") comes up. Do you think most people are going to think that is fun? They just lost a 200 pt model to a single helfrost shot that cost 20 pts. Now on the other hand, if I buy the helfrost and spend 2 whole games not having an opponent fail a save or getting into close enough range to use it- is it worth it to me? It was like the old Jaws of the World Wolf that everyone got so angry about. Draw the line, pass the psychic test, if you fail an initiative test you are removed from play (and MCs had a -1 to their roll)- most of the time it did nothing, yeah you might kill a model here and there but nothing big, but when people lost their expensive model the spell was broken, cheesy and OP- once again, bad gaming mechanic.
You can argue the same for D weapons outside of Apoc games.... Cheesy broken mechanics.
Or FW making models with rules which can give an army a massive edge on the field.
Its what GW do.
And personally, if my Hellfrost takes out a demon prince with one shot, great! I dont really care that my opponent didnt get to wipe out half my army with him. I am so sorry that its not that "fun" for him, but is it fun for anyone taking models off the table? Oh, my LR was 250 points and someone popped it with 1 melta shot and killed all the wulfen inside. Can I go home and cry now?
I will reinforce what AllSeeing Skink pointed out- no one is crying, but rather just pointing out bad mechanics by GW and they get away with it because alot of the players are all too happy to buy 3 Riptides and 2 Stormsurges, or whole armies of Knight etc which just lead to games being decided by turn 3. My opinion, leave the hellfrost at home, Ill take the 20 pts and add another body on the ground or give something else a storm shield. I don't like banking on 1/12 odds or whatever it is to activate a gimmick.
Not much to do with MC/GMC or vehicle tables or Instant Death weapons. The real problem is that GW has no clue how to balance this game. I'll still waltz over tier 3 armies with a tier 1 army because they're just that badly balanced.
How does the Drakeslayer monster hunter bonus work with dedicated transports?
From the wording of the Ironwolves formation, it looks like their dedicated transports are considered part of their formation.
eg. "All Ironwolves vehicles can move..." and "wargear options taken by Ironwolves vehicles..."
"These Dedicated Transports do not use up a slot on the force organisation chart, but count as having the same role as the unit they were bought for all other rules purposes." From the rulebook. I would think that it works like I think it does?
The Drakeslayers formation vehicles would get monster hunter if it worked like this. A dedicated stormwolf with monster hunter doesn't sound bad.
Rasko wrote: The Drakeslayers formation vehicles would get monster hunter if it worked like this too. A dedicated stormwolf with monster hunter doesn't sound bad.
Monster Hunter on anything Helfrost is a mean way of dealing with stuff like a Riptide. Heck, being able to throw multiple wounds on a Wraithknight per shot is as well. I don't see why it wouldn't affect Dedicated Transports for these units. They are being purchased as part of the formation.
I am actually eyeing the Drakeslayers as an army. I have many of the components already. I could get a couple of the 15-man sets of Blood Claws, build 10 as Grey Hunters to go with my current 10, and 20 as Blood Claws. I have the Terminators already, and Krom. Would just need a box of Long Fangs, and I would have the requirements for that formation. Then just figure out what sort of auxiliary I want, and BOOM, I have a fully functional Space Wolves army to build onto.
Yea, that is a nice buff. I guess it applies to Deathwolve's transports too. You can have the Deathwolf transports outflanking by themselves, which is kind of funny.
On another note, trying to get the Wulfen to work is pretty hard. If you want to make use of the force multiplier effect, all the units that you want to affect AND the wulfen as well, have to be on the field at the start of your turn. Or do you just forget about the force multiplier and run them in a transport.
Not to mention, the only way to field them in the decurion is the damn Murderpack. Assuming 2 TH/SS and 3 claws, they are 235pt a pop. So, you have a 470pt investment foot-slogging it. :S
Yeah, if I end up doing the Drakeslayers, it will be with Drop Pods. I favor 10-man squads for that exact reason. Though I would probably swap the Terminators for regular Wolf Guard if I do that, though I would probably just get a Stormwolf or Stormfang.
EDIT:
By the way, GW, where are our campaign boxed sets like Tau and C:SM got?! I want an Iron Priest in a boxed set with some other dudes, damnit! The ideal would be an Iron Priest, a Wolf Pack, and a Dreadnought. Then do something similar with Chaos. Also, don't put Krom in this, release him as a clam pack character. You're welcome.
Wraithwing wrote: Has anyone got sight of Murderfang's formation, The Curseborn.
Would love to see rules for it.
His formation doesn't have a page number. It literally consists of just him. No special rules.
I feel obligated to try this donkey-cave at least one more time... :-p Maybe i'll throw him in a Lucius Pattern Pod and see if he can be a distraction to keep people from shooting at Wulfen for a turn.
Wraithwing wrote: Has anyone got sight of Murderfang's formation, The Curseborn.
Would love to see rules for it.
His formation doesn't have a page number. It literally consists of just him. No special rules.
I feel obligated to try this donkey-cave at least one more time... :-p Maybe i'll throw him in a Lucius Pattern Pod and see if he can be a distraction to keep people from shooting at Wulfen for a turn.
I really wish that the Curseborne actually was a formation so I could field just him on his own.
Billymac321 wrote: I have a question. Seeing as how this is not a new codex, can I still use the iron priest from the codex or do I have to use the new one? I would personally rather have the Priest taking up a elite slot than a extra wound.
There is no change to the original codex, the new codex book online is basically a compilation of the old codex+wulfen+champion of fenris. When did IP get a +1 wound?
The IP got +1 wound in this supplement., he also has the option for a helfrost pistol. So there are no updates on the dread profile or any character profiles? Which ebook did you purchase, I saw there was the Wulfen Edition and then the Wulfen Edition Enhanced?
Wraithwing wrote: Has anyone got sight of Murderfang's formation, The Curseborn.
Would love to see rules for it.
His formation doesn't have a page number. It literally consists of just him. No special rules.
I feel obligated to try this donkey-cave at least one more time... :-p Maybe i'll throw him in a Lucius Pattern Pod and see if he can be a distraction to keep people from shooting at Wulfen for a turn.
Murderfang in a Lucius is really, really good actually. If nothing else, he makes for a great distraction carnifex while your other units move upfield in the cover of the shrouded cone the pod gives you.
So am I to understand there are two ways to play a IP then. One from the codex and one from the supplement. Are both still legal? Or do you have to play with the newest one?
Billymac321 wrote: So am I to understand there are two ways to play a IP then. One from the codex and one from the supplement. Are both still legal? Or do you have to play with the newest one?
No, there is only the new way. You cannot use older versions of rules for the same unit. The Supplement is not just a supplement - it is also a codex update (coming out in a separate release next week).
Wraithwing wrote: Has anyone got sight of Murderfang's formation, The Curseborn.
Would love to see rules for it.
His formation doesn't have a page number. It literally consists of just him. No special rules.
I feel obligated to try this donkey-cave at least one more time... :-p Maybe i'll throw him in a Lucius Pattern Pod and see if he can be a distraction to keep people from shooting at Wulfen for a turn.
Murderfang in a Lucius is really, really good actually. If nothing else, he makes for a great distraction carnifex while your other units move upfield in the cover of the shrouded cone the pod gives you.
Well, he does feel like something that has to be addressed, and a Lucius Pod means a fair bit of shooting will have to be spent on it, that isn't being directed at Wulfen/TWC, etc. I really feel like people are under-estimating Wulfen now, distracted by the bad models, and math-hammer which doesn't account for their force-multiplier value.
A Murder Pack formation can super easily be dropped into anything, and three Wulfen units of 5 (geared to the gills) are not only threatening, but give you, on a 4+ a chance to move TWC 24" BEFORE the charge.
A murder pack really cant be dropped into anything as you are talking at least 500 for 2 units of 5, but if you are really trying for the 7+ result, you need 3 units which is 750 and even then you are hoping to roll a 4+ (which if you dont roll it the first or second turn you probably wont have 3 units anymore.
As far as a force multiplier, I'm sorry but I just dont see it. A 12 inch bubble is good but that only affects Blood Claws and when you look at the most mobile blood claws (bikers and jump packs) they cant use the best rolls on the table- the +1 attack (they have rage) and Hammer of Wrath (they already have it). Now, lets look at units that are affected in the 6 inch bubble (which is REALLY close, hope your opponent didnt bring any pie plates) - many of those units, TWC or Wolves (which would benefit) have to slow down and wait for the Wulfen, which in general you want your TWC in cc as quickly as possible, while Grey Hunters and Wolfguard are too slow to keep up on foot.
Now I am not saying they aren't cool units or that they cant work, what I am saying is for the price, you could thunderwolves already assaulting on turn 2 without having to get lucky and they are too expensive (again my opinion) to take as a distraction unless you are playing very large games (like over 2000 pts). I generally stick to 1500-1850 and that is too much for a distraction.
How many points is a lucius pattern drop pod? I wouldnt mind getting one.
50pts. Its a wonderful Pod and if you deploy it aggressively it has to be removed first, or else it confers, essentially a 3+ cover-save to a decent part of the table. It also comes with its own 5+ cover save so it tends to be a little more obnoxious to remove than a Drop Pod should be.
Billymac321 wrote: So am I to understand there are two ways to play a IP then. One from the codex and one from the supplement. Are both still legal? Or do you have to play with the newest one?
No, there is only the new way. You cannot use older versions of rules for the same unit. The Supplement is not just a supplement - it is also a codex update (coming out in a separate release next week).
Thanks for the answer. Will you still be able to use the normal codex force org or even the champions of Fenris one? Or will you have to play the new " Decurion style" ?
Billymac321 wrote: So am I to understand there are two ways to play a IP then. One from the codex and one from the supplement. Are both still legal? Or do you have to play with the newest one?
No, there is only the new way. You cannot use older versions of rules for the same unit. The Supplement is not just a supplement - it is also a codex update (coming out in a separate release next week).
Thanks for the answer. Will you still be able to use the normal codex force org or even the champions of Fenris one? Or will you have to play the new " Decurion style" ?
Because the codex is still called Codex: Space Wolves (just a new edition), you can use all of the previous force orgs and formations from Champions of Fenris. I really don't know if you can use the Wolves Unleashed anymore (unless it is in the new codex), but really - who cares about that one? It has always been pretty crappy and the new formations do what it did, only better.
You can always use a Combined Arms Detachment or Allied Detachment from the BRB with any 7th edition army as well.
Eh. the Wolves Unleashed isn't horrible. I don't see why they would get rid of it. The only reason to go generic greatpack over WU is if you want a cheap'ish greatpack strictly for the decurion.
One thing to keep in mind is that the decurion doesn't any ANY generic force org charts for heavy/fast attack/elites. Which is actually pretty huge. It means you can't run Wulfen in a pack of 1, you can't run sicarans, you can't buy drop pods for allies, etc. There are quite a few implications... I wouldn't write off the other detachments. If anything, ironically, all the other detachments got better because, would you really want a highly restricted list for counter-charge? Or a MUCH more lenient force org chart (where you can still ally in any formation you want from the campaign)? I still need to playtest counter-charge more but so far, it has been underwhelming.
Rasko wrote: Eh. the Wolves Unleashed isn't horrible. I don't see why they would get rid of it. The only reason to go generic greatpack over WU is if you want a cheap'ish greatpack strictly for the decurion.
One thing to keep in mind is that the decurion doesn't any ANY generic force org charts for heavy/fast attack/elites. Which is actually pretty huge. It means you can't run Wulfen in a pack of 1, you can't run sicarans, you can't buy drop pods for allies, etc. There are quite a few implications... I wouldn't write off the other detachments. If anything, ironically, all the other detachments got better because, would you really want a highly restricted list for counter-charge? Or a MUCH more lenient force org chart (where you can still ally in any formation you want from the campaign)? I still need to playtest counter-charge more but so far, it has been underwhelming.
I agree completely. Honestly other than a few of the formations the complete detachment ( and all the taxes you have to use) does not interest me.
Quick question: the old SW kit could be built as Blood Claws, Grey Hunters or Wolf Guard, right? Now the repacked kit can't build Wolf Guard anymore and you have to buy the more expensive 5 man kit?
One day I'll need a box to make some Space Bears, so I wan't to know if I have to rush out and get one of the old boxes.
Waited for clear phots after all the "it's a bad photo, wait for better shots this is normal" talk and even with clear photos now, those models are utter arsegravy. I've got 15 of the old Wulfen which I think I'll ebay tonight, hoover up some suckas cash.
The Wulfen, well, like most current GW kits there're some pieces of pure brilliance in there, let down by super whacky poses and "details" that are just ridiculous clutter destroying perfectly fine parts and price that's twice as expensive as it should be. And GW just can't do good human heads anymore, I don't get it.
For 25€ I would still get them and make awesome CSMs out of them, at their real price I might buy some bits from the kit.
shadowfinder wrote: Is there any new on the Wolfkin formation? I been looking though te thread but have not seen it.
It is minimum 2 units, gives them monster hunter and outflank. And they can direct any outflanking SW unit to the side that the wolfkin are on if within 12" of that side. They can be played as an alpha unit which gives the wolves +1A if they are 20+ wolfkin.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh, I have a question. If I use the Ironwolve's formation and attach an IC to an Ironwolves unit. If the transport moves 12", can my IC unit still disembark?
And #2. The mobile assault ability reads "Ironwolves units can disembark from their transports even if it has moved...". It feels like that means the ability is granted to the unit. So they would be able to disembark even if you moved 12" on a non-dedicated transport. This could be very useful to know because you could spam razorbacks for the Ironwolves formation dedicated transport requirement (for the free weapon platforms). AND just buy rhino's from a CAD or CotGW, while still getting the ability to disembark after a 12" move. That sounds pretty powerful.
Also I think the winner is the Iron Wolves by far.
For 1,500pts you can get 2 TWC Battle Leaders, 4x5 Blood Claws in Razors w/Power Axes & Flamers, 8 Land Speeders upgraded to taste, and 2 Long Fang units of 3 with 2 heavies and a melta in Razors.
Also I think the winner is the Iron Wolves by far.
For 1,500pts you can get 2 TWC Battle Leaders, 4x5 Blood Claws in Razors w/Power Axes & Flamers, 8 Land Speeders upgraded to taste, and 2 Long Fang units of 3 with 2 heavies and a melta in Razors.
That's a solid amount of firepower.
Yea but some of us have no interest in rebuilding our 5th ed lists Know what I mean? I was only hoping for dreads to get the appropriate attacks. Isn't looking good though.
Also I think the winner is the Iron Wolves by far.
For 1,500pts you can get 2 TWC Battle Leaders, 4x5 Blood Claws in Razors w/Power Axes & Flamers, 8 Land Speeders upgraded to taste, and 2 Long Fang units of 3 with 2 heavies and a melta in Razors.
That's a solid amount of firepower.
Yea but some of us have no interest in rebuilding our 5th ed lists Know what I mean? I was only hoping for dreads to get the appropriate attacks. Isn't looking good though.
Yeah, it is a shame when the melee focused Dreads (SW Venerable Dread with axe and shield, and double-fisted Furioso Dreadnought or Death Company Dreadnought) have fewer attacks than a single-fisted regular SM Dread. It is something that can and should be fixed either in an Errata or in the codex update. Major fail on GW's part.
Also I think the winner is the Iron Wolves by far.
For 1,500pts you can get 2 TWC Battle Leaders, 4x5 Blood Claws in Razors w/Power Axes & Flamers, 8 Land Speeders upgraded to taste, and 2 Long Fang units of 3 with 2 heavies and a melta in Razors.
That's a solid amount of firepower.
Yea but some of us have no interest in rebuilding our 5th ed lists Know what I mean? I was only hoping for dreads to get the appropriate attacks. Isn't looking good though.
I couldn't agree more. I was happy with what I was playing. I just wanted a few tweaks. Am I the only one who has been playing against Necrons with reanimate 4+, Eldar scatter bikes, Tau gun line over watch while being a good sport . Just waiting for my turn in the sun. And then wow let down. Yes some of the formations could be good, but I have no interest in 8 Land speeders or 5 drop pods. I did not want much. Dreads with the extra attack, ccw weapons cheaper for greyhunters. Heck I would have been happy with Canis making fen wolves troops again.
Zagra wrote: Hey, guys. Does anyone now if Krom is actually getting a clampack as rumored?
Either that or he is being rereleased in another boxed set. GW doesn't make stats for characters without models, so it only makes sense for them to release him again.
You know, the Blackmane formation rumors sounded familiar, so I did some checking. This was an old "Voice of the Chaos Gods" rumor, a dude who just made stuff up:
"Ragnar Blackmane
When all Units in the detachment take Drop Pods as dedicated Transport, Ragnar will be free. Your Army may only take Unites with an Drop Pod option."
Also I think the winner is the Iron Wolves by far.
For 1,500pts you can get 2 TWC Battle Leaders, 4x5 Blood Claws in Razors w/Power Axes & Flamers, 8 Land Speeders upgraded to taste, and 2 Long Fang units of 3 with 2 heavies and a melta in Razors.
That's a solid amount of firepower.
Well is jarl of Russ detachment still valid for us to run 6 HQs?
Binabik15 wrote:Quick question: the old SW kit could be built as Blood Claws, Grey Hunters or Wolf Guard, right? Now the repacked kit can't build Wolf Guard anymore and you have to buy the more expensive 5 man kit?
One day I'll need a box to make some Space Bears, so I wan't to know if I have to rush out and get one of the old boxes.
kodos wrote:It is still the dame kit.
You can buy the Blood Claw Box and build 15 Wolf Guard if you want.
This is just that people don't have to buy 2 10 Marines Boxes to build 15 Blood Claws (or whatever GW think about it)
Kavish wrote:No. They have the exact same sprues in all the kits. Blood claws can be built as wolf guard and it's a lot cheaper (unless you only want 5).
I can only imagine GW's reasoning for doing it is to confuse people who don't know that it's the exact same sprues in all 3 kits. Trying to trick people who don't know in to buying the more expensive versions.
They *could* simply be trying to be nice and offer the 3 different sizes for people who are trying to round out a collection vs starting a collection, but I can't imagine they'd waste the shelf space having 3 kits when they can get away with 1 when realistically almost all sales are just going to be of the larger kits.
This multi-part plastic kit contains 218 components with which to build ten Space Wolves miniatures. There are five different leg variations, six torso variants, five backpack variants and 28 variant heads, meaning there are an incredible number of options for personalising your pack - assemble them as Grey Hunters, Blood Claws or Wolf Guard!
At $37 for 10 models, that's as good as it gets for any modern plastic MPP GW infantry kit. I think it might actually be the best value kit that there is -- boxes like Necron Warriors are much inferior in terms of the number of variations you can build (essentially none), and even decent kits made around the same time like Kabalites have a lot less in terms of configurability.
The "Space Wolves" one has that description, the Wolf Guard and Blood Claw ones don't.
If that's not the reason I have no idea why GW would bother making 3 kits. After all they killed WHFB because it wasn't selling enough and apparently costing too much to keep, so why are they wasting shelf space with identical models?
Talys wrote: At $37 for 10 models, that's as good as it gets for any modern plastic MPP GW infantry kit. I think it might actually be the best value kit that there is -- boxes like Necron Warriors are much inferior in terms of the number of variations you can build (essentially none), and even decent kits made around the same time like Kabalites have a lot less in terms of configurability.
The $50 for 15 is even better. You are paying $18.5/5 with the $37 pack, $16.67/5 with the $50 pack. But the $50 pack is online only, so GW is still making more money in the end.
casvalremdeikun wrote: But the $50 pack is online only, so GW is still making more money in the end.
Didn't notice that, that sucks, will be cheaper to buy the 10 large box from a discounter.
Yup. I was considering getting two of the $50 sets to round out my Drakeslayers. But if I get three of the $37 sets at 20-25% off, I will get a much better deal.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: The "Space Wolves" one has that description, the Wolf Guard and Blood Claw ones don't.
If that's not the reason I have no idea why GW would bother making 3 kits. After all they killed WHFB because it wasn't selling enough and apparently costing too much to keep, so why are they wasting shelf space with identical models?
These kits are not on our order forms, they're Direct Only.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: The "Space Wolves" one has that description, the Wolf Guard and Blood Claw ones don't.
If that's not the reason I have no idea why GW would bother making 3 kits. After all they killed WHFB because it wasn't selling enough and apparently costing too much to keep, so why are they wasting shelf space with identical models?
These kits are not on our order forms, they're Direct Only.
Yeah I see that now.
Does anyone know if the Long Fangs are any different to the ones we had before?
Also I think the winner is the Iron Wolves by far.
For 1,500pts you can get 2 TWC Battle Leaders, 4x5 Blood Claws in Razors w/Power Axes & Flamers, 8 Land Speeders upgraded to taste, and 2 Long Fang units of 3 with 2 heavies and a melta in Razors.
That's a solid amount of firepower.
Yea but some of us have no interest in rebuilding our 5th ed lists Know what I mean? I was only hoping for dreads to get the appropriate attacks. Isn't looking good though.
SW will still struggle against the top tier armies in town.
By the way, I dislike the new Wulfen models - wolverine punks on crack.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: The "Space Wolves" one has that description, the Wolf Guard and Blood Claw ones don't.
If that's not the reason I have no idea why GW would bother making 3 kits. After all they killed WHFB because it wasn't selling enough and apparently costing too much to keep, so why are they wasting shelf space with identical models?
These kits are not on our order forms, they're Direct Only.
Yeah I see that now.
Does anyone know if the Long Fangs are any different to the ones we had before?
The new entry on GW's site shows them with the larger bases but the same weapon options. Doesn't appear that they have any new gear and its the same mix of the old devastator and the grey hunter sprue. Interestingly enough the Skyclaw set is now a web store exclusive when it did have an actual box back when they released the 7th edition codex in 2014.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: The "Space Wolves" one has that description, the Wolf Guard and Blood Claw ones don't.
If that's not the reason I have no idea why GW would bother making 3 kits. After all they killed WHFB because it wasn't selling enough and apparently costing too much to keep, so why are they wasting shelf space with identical models?
These kits are not on our order forms, they're Direct Only.
Yeah I see that now.
Does anyone know if the Long Fangs are any different to the ones we had before?
The new entry on GW's site shows them with the larger bases but the same weapon options. Doesn't appear that they have any new gear and its the same mix of the old devastator and the grey hunter sprue. Interestingly enough the Skyclaw set is now a web store exclusive when it did have an actual box back when they released the 7th edition codex in 2014.
Weren't Skyclaws just a 5-man sprue of Blood Claws and the 5-jump pack sprue.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: The "Space Wolves" one has that description, the Wolf Guard and Blood Claw ones don't.
If that's not the reason I have no idea why GW would bother making 3 kits. After all they killed WHFB because it wasn't selling enough and apparently costing too much to keep, so why are they wasting shelf space with identical models?
These kits are not on our order forms, they're Direct Only.
Yeah I see that now.
Does anyone know if the Long Fangs are any different to the ones we had before?
The new entry on GW's site shows them with the larger bases but the same weapon options. Doesn't appear that they have any new gear and its the same mix of the old devastator and the grey hunter sprue. Interestingly enough the Skyclaw set is now a web store exclusive when it did have an actual box back when they released the 7th edition codex in 2014.
Weren't Skyclaws just a 5-man sprue of Blood Claws and the 5-jump pack sprue.
Yeah both the Skyclaw box and the Long Fang box had part of the Grey Hunter sprue plus the older Assault/Dev sprue.
wuestenfux wrote: SW will still struggle against the top tier armies in town.
By the way, I dislike the new Wulfen models - wolverine punks on crack.
I dunno. The decurion counter-charge sucks but some of the individual formation bonuses are pretty good. Obviously, the Ironwolves and Blackmanes stand out. I think people will just ally them into a CAD/CotGW/etc, and have good success. If anything, the Blackmane formation eliminates the variance of pod lists by itself. Pretty strong.
I'm also foolishly holding out hope that there is another bonus for the Champions of Fenris formation that we can't see in the screen-cap.
For those who were wondering about Krom I have only one thing to say, it's not because you're not part of the Cool Guy Club who is allowed to have its picture on the cover of magazines that you won't be released alongside them.
For those wondering about the new Techmarine, wouldn't it be awesome for the WD to tell you that you can use the new profile alongside the old one if you wish?
Eh, and I'm sure people would be very happy if, by total chance, a Start Collecting SW box would happen to be released at the same time (even if the discount would happen to be more AM box style than Tau Box style). We can only hope...
I'm saying that, I'm saying nothing of course. just some random rambling. Don't mind me. Nothing to see here.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: The "Space Wolves" one has that description, the Wolf Guard and Blood Claw ones don't.
If that's not the reason I have no idea why GW would bother making 3 kits. After all they killed WHFB because it wasn't selling enough and apparently costing too much to keep, so why are they wasting shelf space with identical models?
These kits are not on our order forms, they're Direct Only.
Yeah I see that now.
Does anyone know if the Long Fangs are any different to the ones we had before?
The new entry on GW's site shows them with the larger bases but the same weapon options. Doesn't appear that they have any new gear and its the same mix of the old devastator and the grey hunter sprue. Interestingly enough the Skyclaw set is now a web store exclusive when it did have an actual box back when they released the 7th edition codex in 2014.
Weren't Skyclaws just a 5-man sprue of Blood Claws and the 5-jump pack sprue.
Yep, it was because of the fact Skyclaws and Long fangs used the "old" Assault Marine and Devastator sprues that I was wondering if the Long Fangs had been updated to more current sprues. I guess not.
It means they're still producing the old Devestator and Assault Marine sprues for the sole purpose of outfitting the Space Wolves.
