So what's still missing? I can think of at least 4 "towers"

- the small octagonal one (Deathknell Watch)
- the huuuge round one (Witchfate Tor)
- the ruined round one (Dreadstone Blight)
- the observatory (already got a re-release in AoS times once) (Skullvane Manse)

Edited with last known names

I love the terrain; got the Skullvane Manse, fences, hill and normal tower back in the day.

Great though they are, they were designed in GW's 'MOAR SKULLZ!' fase and most are only fitting for battles set in the empire.

For example, i would love to use the chapel for a Bretonnian table, but I'll have to put in some work removing the molded-on Empire iconography.

Still it's great to see them make a return!

lord_blackfang wrote:So what's still missing? I can think of at least 4 "towers"

- the small octagonal one (Deathknell Watch)
- the huuuge round one (Witchfate Tor)
- the ruined round one (Dreadstone Blight)
- the observatory (already got a re-release in AoS times once) (Skullvane Manse)

Edited with last known names

Also missing from memory:

The Chaos altar/temple
The modular hill. Similar to the regular hills here but a bit bigger, and split in half or quarter (don't remember which), so you can put them on the sides/corners of the table.
The woods

And you could add the graveyard but that one is still available for AOS (or was until very recently

JWh85 wrote:I love the terrain; got the Skullvane Manse, fences, hill and normal tower back in the day.

Great though they are, they were designed in GW's 'MOAR SKULLZ!' fase and most are only fitting for battles set in the empire.

For example, i would love to use the chapel for a Bretonnian table, but I'll have to put in some work removing the molded-on Empire iconography.

Still it's great to see them make a return!

I did exactly that with one of mine, I de-empirified it and grailified it instead, with a interior and all that!

I still regret not getting the Woods when I had a chance so hopefully it is in the next terrain wave.

 Shadow Walker wrote:
I still regret not getting the Woods when I had a chance so hopefully it is in the next terrain wave.

Are we talking about the really old fluffy trees they have in the rulebooks, or the multipart plastic trees with flat horizontal foliage. I really like the multipart plastic trees, and also the awakened wyldwood, but was under the impression most people hated that set.

 Fayric wrote:

 Shadow Walker wrote:
I still regret not getting the Woods when I had a chance so hopefully it is in the next terrain wave.

Are we talking about the really old fluffy trees they have in the rulebooks, or the multipart plastic trees with flat horizontal foliage. I really like the multipart plastic trees, and also the awakened wyldwood, but was under the impression most people hated that set.

That one below

Sign me up for the Hills and the Arcane Ruins. I already own the Manor.

Those trees are painted very nicely.

I will likely be getting the manor. I'll definitely be converting it into part of my Bretonnian Castle :-)

My biggest problem with those building is that I become obsessive about making interiors for them I have all those crazy ideas and they end up staying in parts because I have no time to work on that for weeks on end!

Thankfully I still have most of those I bought at the time, so I'm not jumping on them day one. Gonna have to dust of those half finished projects now tho!

Just 2-3 weeks ago I was working on one of those wood pictured above to refurbish it a bit and eventually paint it!

I do have to cringe at what the price is going to be, when I remember the old prices. Arcane Ruins will be likely be what, $40US? More?

Don't make me dig out 20 years old WD scans again, I did for bretonnian army bundles and adjusted for inflation the new Bret set was very comparable with the old army bundles. The prices were pretty steep back then too.

I will never financially recover from this...

oof, there goes my final car payment

Wow, I did not expect that! Wonderful to see these kits return, and will allow new players to make tables with the proper aesthetic without needing incredible crafting skills.

Some day, I'll make my own Empire Army out of historical kits, and I'll make some terrain for them. But I'll probably give these a miss - I can't see myself doing anything in the Old World for at least 5 years.

I wouldn't say no to those trees coming back though, I liked that kit.

Would be great for 40k Feral World terrain.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
So what's still missing? I can think of at least 4 "towers"

- the small octagonal one (Deathknell Watch)
- the huuuge round one (Witchfate Tor)
- the ruined round one (Dreadstone Blight)
- the observatory (already got a re-release in AoS times once) (Skullvane Manse)

Edited with last known names

You forgott the Garden of Morr kit one of most versataille GW terrain piece.

If its ridiculously overpriced I'll get a fortified manor and maybe another set of fences. Amd if it's just regular overpriced, a whole town.

I do remember how the old GW realized that if people could afford terrain it would make their games of Warhammer more fun, and they'd like the game more. Before the new GW decides to overprice it so high that Necromunda has to be a board game fought in hallways. And then they made a set of hallways $300.

 herjan1987 wrote:
You forgott the Garden of Morr kit one of most versataille GW terrain piece.

That's already been re-released at least twice in the AoS era

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 herjan1987 wrote:
You forgott the Garden of Morr kit one of most versataille GW terrain piece.

That's already been re-released at least twice in the AoS era

I wish they would re-release it again as a single set and cheaper rather than a box with repeated twice as the latest incarnation.

I just looked at the AoS preview of the Skaven. It looks great and just about everything should be useable with TOW.
They mentioned all of the weapon teams, but only showed a warpgrinder and doomflayers. Here's hoping they redo the rest of them.

Models are very well designed, but what i like about the New Old World models is the lack of detail in comparison to the AOS stuff; all these skaven models are super nice but incredibly cluttered with details to the point where my eyes don't find a focal point (the vermin lord and master moulder are the worst offenders for me).

I like a strong silhouette and focuspoints for my models. The AOS ones these daysare a bit to busy for my taste.

of course, those are skirmish games display models, they must look that way to be good alone on the shelf/board

GW stopped making Rank&File models already during the old Warhammer days so the very old ones fit better for TOW

the funny thing is, somehow models must be old the be R&F models while everything new must be a display model
if new models are released people complain the lack of details and models not looking good standing alone, leading to companies to overload R&F models despite those just need to look good as regiment

 SgtEeveell wrote:

They mentioned all of the weapon teams, but only showed a warpgrinder and doomflayers. Here's hoping they redo the rest of them.

Here is the updated article with all weapon teams etc. https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/08/10/the-slaughter-at-hel-crown-global-campaign-the-winner-revealed/

Definitely a good time to be a fan of the Clans Skryre.

Now I’ve seen the weapons teams, very mildly disappointed we didn’t get the Poisoned Wind Mortar.

But I’ll still take plastic Everything Else as compensation ?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Now I’ve seen the weapons teams, very mildly disappointed we didn’t get the Poisoned Wind Mortar.

But I’ll still take plastic Everything Else as compensation ?

Seems like a simple conversion to me; use the front end of the warp fire thrower but turned around so the large “cup” is pointing forward, cover the end with a glossy globe bit and bam, poison wind mortar. You can even use the arms from the lightning gun to differentiate it a bit more.

How soon til we find out the prices of the terrain sets?

 Just Tony wrote:
How soon til we find out the prices of the terrain sets?

If they are general release (available to FLGS) the price list normally goes around the Monday morning after the Sunday evening that the preorder is announced if they are direct only you'll have to wait until the Saturday of the preorder. Whilst these are not made to order and are part of the normal range there's no indication yet if they are direct only. Just looking at the single scenery kits on the GW site they range from £37 to £41.50 with some old kits at £31.50. Hopefully these are at the lower end.The Fortified Manor will obviously be more being effectively 4 kits (Tower, Chapel, Walls and Fences and the Fortified walls).

EDIT I found the 2007 price for the Large Manor set which then contained 1 Fortified Manor, 1 Watchtower, 1 Chapel and 3 sets of Walls and fences for £75

 Shadow Walker wrote:

 SgtEeveell wrote:

They mentioned all of the weapon teams, but only showed a warpgrinder and doomflayers. Here's hoping they redo the rest of them.

Here is the updated article with all weapon teams etc. https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/08/10/the-slaughter-at-hel-crown-global-campaign-the-winner-revealed/

That's the one I was looking at before. I didn't notice that the weapon teams one was a multiple picture.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/08/11/sunday-preview-don-your-hunting-rig-and-enter-hive-secundus/

There's the terrain announcement plus the missing Orc Shaman and some more Dwarves - going to be expensive!

Miners box coming with four carts is ludicrous but also great.

 Olthannon wrote:
Miners box coming with four carts is ludicrous but also great.

It's the same as it always was, except they get rules and their own bases now. I'm more wondering where transfers go on those tiny dwarfs.

But I guess I'll find out, need me some Miners.

That Orc shaman is also super cool but I don't get what the crab trophies have to do with calling trolls.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
I do have to cringe at what the price is going to be, when I remember the old prices. Arcane Ruins will be likely be what, $40US? More?

LOL, $80.

Fortified Manor is a STEAL at $118.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Olthannon wrote:
Miners box coming with four carts is ludicrous but also great.

It's the same as it always was, except they get rules and their own bases now. I'm more wondering where transfers go on those tiny dwarfs.

But I guess I'll find out, need me some Miners.

That Orc shaman is also super cool but I don't get what the crab trophies have to do with calling trolls.

Its a nice river troll themed throphy, and perhaps the trolls really like the smell of rotten crab claw.
Anyway, it must have been a huge crab, looks like the classic daemonette claws.

 Robert Facepalmer wrote:

 AegisGrimm wrote:
I do have to cringe at what the price is going to be, when I remember the old prices. Arcane Ruins will be likely be what, $40US? More?

LOL, $80.

Fortified Manor is a STEAL at $118.

A dude at my FLGS bought one a few years ago for over $400...

They are not currently having a good time

 GaroRobe wrote:

A dude at my FLGS bought one a few years ago for over $400...

They are not currently having a good time

Funniest thing I heard all day!

Warriors of Chaos are the next army for Warhammer: The Old World –

Old World Almanack – Warriors of Chaos Assemble for the Dark Gods


Automatically Appended Next Post:





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WHERE ARE THE FORSAKEN????


And yay skinwolves

I hope high elves get the merwyrm

 GaroRobe wrote:
WHERE ARE THE FORSAKEN????

Hopefully getting replaced with much better models?

Good to see now AOS 4 is out that we seem to back to a better pace of releases.

The forsaken looked silly but they had some really nice heads and arms ?

Well it says in the article there are no new model releases. So what you see is what you get

nice that they're clearly delineating what the model releases will be. i don't think they did that with the prior releases? or maybe i missed it

WARPFIRE DRAGON!!

 Overread wrote:
WARPFIRE DRAGON!!

The only thing that caught my eye so far. And those marauders keep lingering around like a bad smell.

The only reason those Marauders are there is because of the insanity of the studio split internally - which clearly leads to some bonkers choices right now.

Thankfully if OW does well and keeps doing well then in 10 or so years we might get new replacement marauders

Don't even play WoC and have no intention of doing so but I'm going to finally get the Warpfire Dragon.

I was not expecting the Skin Wolves returning.

Warpfire Dragon is a must for me.

 Shadow Walker wrote:
I was not expecting the Skin Wolves returning.

I never understood how these were chaos in the first place. How did they not end up a vampire unit?

Wow that's quite the range! Weird to not see the Forsaken, but already have mine so I'm good!

Love the made to order too, Daemon Prince and Spawn will be on my want list for sure! But I wonder what sorcerer it will be as there are no picture of him.

Not much else I will need for my army, pretty much have everything I can want already, but so glad to see them all back. Love the regular sorcerer on horse and might want that one, and maybe some chaos Ogres and Trolls down the road!

The FW addition are very nice too, wasn't expecting that. Didn't even remember that dragon, but it's a nice one. And that Giant spawn is great too!

Gaulrauch as the special character is cool, and wonder who the other one might be. It cannot be any Archaon models, and timeline-wise I don't know if Arbaal or Egrimm were around, but I'd really love to see Egrimm back as a model!

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:

 Shadow Walker wrote:
I was not expecting the Skin Wolves returning.

I never understood how these were chaos in the first place. How did they not end up a vampire unit?

Original Vampires in OW weren't that wolfy in the first place. They had undead wolves and that was about it; but goblins were also riding around on wolves.

Age of Sigmar has gone FAR more into the wolf/feralbat design elements and I would be more surprised if we don't see werewolves appear for the Soulblight.

 Overread wrote:


Age of Sigmar has gone FAR more into the wolf/feralbat design elements and I would be more surprised if we don't see werewolves appear for the Soulblight.

Never liked those vampire/werewolves hybrids from AoS. As to werewolves proper, there is a one in Underworlds already.

Like the classic Daemon Princes. I also really like the Skinwolves, great minis.

I'd never seen the dragon before but that is a belter.

Some of the best metals and some... heck, most of the worst plastics of late WHFB.

It is funny how so much of their design efforts have gone into refreshing their Chaos range, but they can't use any of that and are trying to resell the crappy old models.

Well jokes on them, I've already bought several boxes of their ridiculously overpriced new Chaos Warriors and Chaos Legionnaires to convert for this game... wait, that joke's not on them.

 GaroRobe wrote:
WHERE ARE THE FORSAKEN????


And yay skinwolves

I hope high elves get the merwyrm

Seconded, the Forsaken were like a whole kit version of the possession/mutation sprue they put in the CSM and Warriors boxes for such a short few years before getting rid of it. So much use for possessed marines. Am I not remembering correctly or did the Forsaken get squatted even before the End Times? They remind me of the Blood Angels Tactical Squad kit in terms of plastic kits people forget ever existed due to being around for only a few years.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:

 Shadow Walker wrote:
I was not expecting the Skin Wolves returning.

I never understood how these were chaos in the first place. How did they not end up a vampire unit?

Because the curse is strictly carried by Norse bloodlines due to living in the Chaos Wastes.

 frankelee wrote:
It is funny how so much of their design efforts have gone into refreshing their Chaos range, but they can't use any of that and are trying to resell the crappy old models.

Well jokes on them, I've already bought several boxes of their ridiculously overpriced new Chaos Warriors and Chaos Legionnaires to convert for this game... wait, that joke's not on them.

The problem is the posing of the new models is based on them being on round skirmish bases so many of them may not play well on those bases anyway either not looking right in ranked formation or not being physically able to fit. GW have also embiggened the squares though is this so people can use AoS models or just because going forward they want the ability to scale creep new model lines, probably the latter. I personally prefer the menacing wall of warriors just marching forward.

I will say though I like the classic Chaos Warriors the new ones are just slightly bigger with more modern design but still very similar and "dynamic" poses and lack of ease in terms of interchangeable parts.

While a lot of people don't like the "old" models I think they had a much better design ethos in terms of kitbashing and interchangeable parts and even Zoomers raised on TW:WH seem to appreciate them. Not everything new is better. The Orcs in particularly have a real charm compared to their AoS or new 40k models. Where I think there are some problems are the Dwarf infantry which suffer from a lot of the worst of both worlds in terms of early CAD design, the hand sculpted metal dwarves from way back seem to be very popular even with Zoomers.And the skeleton infantry have a certain charm (And the skulls sprue can solve their heads being oversized) though the skeleton cavalry are just pretty bad, the horses skeletons just aren't good enough and never were, even at the time they first released, they are and always have been bad models.

I think GW misses a lot in only using computer design. There was a transition period where they hand-sculpted some things and then used scanners to import that into the digital pipeline but that seems to have been merely because some of the old sculptors were still learning rather than an appreciation for certain things be better and faster sculpted by hand. The last refuseniks were sent to Forge World where they did amazing things. I wish they still did that with things like faces and certain organic things they seem to be unable to do well like energy bolts, tree bark, fur etc.

GW, could, of course, appease everyone by simply not charging so much for molds they have well got their money's worth from.

I am the odd one out then, I really like the plastic Chaos Knights, Hounds and Chaos Warriors from that era. I love how the Chaos Warriors look all ranked up - really intimidating imo!

I have a unit of 12, and would have gotten another 12 or so, but buying 32 for a high price is a bit more than I want. Wish they'd release the boxes with fewer minis for a more reasonable price rather than just the huge amount for a high price, even if the price-per-mini is alright.

The metals though - I LOVE that metal Chaos Lord with the tentacle arm holding the shield. He's got such a wonderful sense of menace, and I missed out on getting him years ago.

I think they died around the time of tomb kings

Finally I can get a chaos cannon at not a stupid price lol. Warpfire dragon will be a must for me too!

Chaos warriors return - great, love them
Hellcannon - amazing
Warp fire dragon - even better
Skin wolves - awesome

Hope the daemons will return as well - I need more daemonettes and metal horrors. Plastic didn’t do them any justice.
Also happy, that I got metal/plastic chaos knights that have the same aesthetic, as the soon to be re-released basic dudes. Looks like they won’t be returning. Book of tamurkhan re-release would be great as well. Especially while the latest W3TW is still hot.

NightReconnaissance wrote:

 frankelee wrote:
It is funny how so much of their design efforts have gone into refreshing their Chaos range, but they can't use any of that and are trying to resell the crappy old models.

Well jokes on them, I've already bought several boxes of their ridiculously overpriced new Chaos Warriors and Chaos Legionnaires to convert for this game... wait, that joke's not on them.

The problem is the posing of the new models is based on them being on round skirmish bases so many of them may not play well on those bases anyway either not looking right in ranked formation or not being physically able to fit. GW have also embiggened the squares though is this so people can use AoS models or just because going forward they want the ability to scale creep new model lines, probably the latter. I personally prefer the menacing wall of warriors just marching forward.

I will say though I like the classic Chaos Warriors the new ones are just slightly bigger with more modern design but still very similar and "dynamic" poses and lack of ease in terms of interchangeable parts.

With a bit of care, I feel the new Warriors could be used as a dynamic front rank with the older models behind (representing the unit once it's moved into contact). Only the front rank can really fight anyway so it works.

Is this the first time they have fully explained the different wave releases (1 and 2 in this case) of plastic releases? If so a definite quality of life improvement.

Wave 1:
Battalion
Lord
Sorcerer
Dragon Ogres
Chimera
Lord on Manticore
Warriors

Wave 2:
Chaos Knights
Chariot
Marauders
Marauder Horsemen
Chaos Hounds

Welp time to start rebasing my stuff I guess...

Already have 18 trolls, debating the Ogres as I rather like those sculpts. Does anyone know who designed the Ogres?

Picking up all the old forgeworld stuff for sure and one more Daemon Prince isn't going to hurt anyone lol.

Galrauch the Great Drake is one of the special characters but I don't see it's mini as one of the ones returning...hoping that's an oversight and I don't have to deal with him in metal (or finecrap). Much rather see him come back in remastered resin as that worked out well with all my tomb king stuff.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh man if Arbaal the Undefeated returned....I'd squeal like a little girl!

SnotlingPimpWagon wrote:
Hope the daemons will return as well - I need more daemonettes and metal horrors. Plastic didn’t do them any justice.

Sadly unlikely. WFB Daemons are their own spin-off legends army for TOW with a PDF list. They join the others that have crossover models with the modern AOS ranges. As such they won't be bringing any model ranges back with the potential to be "confused" with AOS ranges of the same name.

 nathan2004 wrote:
Galrauch the Great Drake is one of the special characters but I don't see it's mini as one of the ones returning...hoping that's an oversight and I don't have to deal with him in metal (or finecrap). Much rather see him come back in remastered resin as that worked out well with all my tomb king stuff.

Was Galrauch the original 2 headed Chaos Dragon? I assembled one of those in metal with pinning throughout, one of the the most uncomfortable models to put together. So many sharp spikes digging into my fingers as I held everything whilst the glue dried... [searches] That's the one. Looks like there were several versions of him including a big FW centrepiece.

ListenToMeWarriors wrote:
Is this the first time they have fully explained the different wave releases (1 and 2 in this case) of plastic releases? If so a definite quality of life improvement.

Wave 1:
Battalion
Lord
Sorcerer
Dragon Ogres
Chimera
Lord on Manticore
Warriors

Wave 2:
Chaos Knights
Chariot
Marauders
Marauder Horsemen
Chaos Hounds

Why would the chariot be wave 2 when it's on sale now?

The one on sale now doesn't come with a square base I think is the only difference.

Already have 18 trolls, debating the Ogres as I rather like those sculpts. Does anyone know who designed the Ogres?

First off, gross. Those Ogres were considered comically bad when they were released back in 6th ed. That said, I'm pretty sure those are Aly Morrison sculpts. If not Aly than possibly Mark Bedford. Definitely a member of their C-team at the time.

Dudeface wrote:

ListenToMeWarriors wrote:
Is this the first time they have fully explained the different wave releases (1 and 2 in this case) of plastic releases? If so a definite quality of life improvement.

Wave 1:
Battalion
Lord
Sorcerer
Dragon Ogres
Chimera
Lord on Manticore
Warriors

Wave 2:
Chaos Knights
Chariot
Marauders
Marauder Horsemen
Chaos Hounds

Why would the chariot be wave 2 when it's on sale now?

My guess would be it will follow other chariots/war machines with 2 to a box. Throw in the square base and Old World themed box and there you go.

Soooooooo happy to have the Previous Chaos Warriors back AND Halberds and Great Weapons!

Love seeing the Hellcannon back as well. Definitely gonna have to pick up some of this and a Battalion!

Das_Ubermike wrote:

Already have 18 trolls, debating the Ogres as I rather like those sculpts. Does anyone know who designed the Ogres?

First off, gross. Those Ogres were considered comically bad when they were released back in 6th ed. That said, I'm pretty sure those are Aly Morrison sculpts. If not Aly than possibly Mark Bedford. Definitely a member of their C-team at the time.

I personally like them and feel for me it fits the aesthetic of my army better...the conversions I tried didn't work out and with these I don't need to convert.

Hmmn, no Forsaken. This saddens me but it also makes my wallet sigh with relief.

WOW what a terrible reveal. NO new models?? No forsaken? I don't play WoC, but this is such a boring release it boggles the mind. Apart from the Skin Wolves an the Warpfire (which aren't that old as models) there seem to be almost no nostalgia models from back in the day. That trailer is also laughably bad, showing off basically only the old core plastics (warriors, chariots and knights) that are by now 15 years old. Compared to the other armies released thus far this feels like the absolute bare minimum of a release.

Still have that Helcannon from back when it was Last Chance to buy...kind of annoyed they it was in Resin as I wanted the Metal model but Ebay prices are nuts. Was hoping it would be re-released in Metal as well but I guess that was too much to wish for.

OMG it happened, people are nostalgic for Forsaken, the universally hated upon release laughing stock of a kit. Just waiting for someone to be glad we're getting the Manticore and Chimera back. So far no such brave soul.

I mean the Chimera isn't terrible. The Manticore is and is a god damn embarrassment when you place it next to Tahlia Vedra.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
I mean the Chimera isn't terrible. The Manticore is and is a god damn embarrassment when you place it next to Tahlia Vedra.

I'm sorry, as someone who loves chimerae and Manticores (my two most favorite mythological monsters) and ownes both models, i can safely say they are both pants. The manticore looks like he is tripping on a wire and the middle (dragon) head of the chimera looks like the sculptor didn't know where to put the third head and just plonked it somewhat higher above the other two.

Of the ranges released so far i would say that apart from the core warrior units this line has aged the worst...those old chaos ogres and chaos trolls are some of the ugliest GW models full stop

I LOVE the mounted lord with the shield and tentacle though. One of my all-time favorite chaos sculpts!

I have always liked the manticore and chimera. Just because they did a better manticore with the new Cities lady doesn't detract from it for me.

What about Galrauch? No mention of them in wave 1 or 2 and if it's in Metal or Resin.

 Skywave wrote:
Gaulrauch as the special character is cool, and wonder who the other one might be. It cannot be any Archaon models, and timeline-wise I don't know if Arbaal or Egrimm were around, but I'd really love to see Egrimm back as a model!

Egrimm started as a magister of the Light College, which hasn't been founded yet, so he's out as a possibiliy. I don't know if Arbaal ever got an origin story, so nothing rules him out. Maybe we'll get yet another rendition of Scylla Anfinngrim!

 Hulksmash wrote:
I have always liked the manticore and chimera. Just because they did a better manticore with the new Cities lady doesn't detract from it for me.

It's much better, but a manticore needs to have bat wings, not bird wings IMO.

I'm sure there will be other waves and a bunch of Made to Order older Chaos Models. This is just the initial release and Chaos has a large enough back catalogue that GW could be going to that well over and over for more collectables that people want to finish their collections.

MTO for all the Realm of Chaos champions, please!

Although they said no new models, I wonder if this is meant to represent female character they alluded to in the arcane journal

Or it’s just a dude. Hard to tell

Not a grumble, but feels really lacklustre for the chaos release.

I honestly thought they would go all out for chaos, I thought we'd see a MTO with all sorts of weird and wonderful things being released.

In some ways, its good. Let them get another army out quick and save the good stuff up for later. Perhaps we'll see stuff from the 'vault' when we finally see something like a campaign book or when we get our first look at a Empire Vs Chaos boxset in a year or two.

But I really thought the MTO would be like a page of all sorts of random chaos champions. And no new models at all, just a new champion using a recycled model? Wow. Chaos taking a back seat in a GW game seems an odd design choice, even if they get prime space in AoS.

SnotlingPimpWagon wrote:


Hope the daemons will return as well - I need more daemonettes and metal horrors.

They won't. Daemons are legacy, no models will be released for them and they don't have any presence in the army list nor will they based on what's been revealed about the arcane journal.

 nathan2004 wrote:
The one on sale now doesn't come with a square base I think is the only difference.

I assume that this is a sign that a new AoS chariot kit is on the horizon.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
OMG it happened, people are nostalgic for Forsaken, the universally hated upon release laughing stock of a kit.

Yeah I've found it a bit confusing/humorous.

On my knees here, beseeching the dark gods, please bring Galrauch back in metal.

METAL?! Wasn't he a nightmare in metal? I would think Forgeworld Resin would be much better no?

I'd rather not get lung cancer from working with FW resin, not to mention I'd rather get actual value for my money.

Would like to see Bile Trolls and Plague Ogres come back, seeing they always revisit some of the Forgeworld stuff.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Would like to see Bile Trolls and Plague Ogres come back, seeing they always revisit some of the Forgeworld stuff.

For whatever reason, they’re leaning away from god specific units. Hence the lack of juggerknights, seekers, etc

 Commodus Leitdorf wrote:
Still have that Helcannon from back when it was Last Chance to buy...kind of annoyed they it was in Resin as I wanted the Metal model but Ebay prices are nuts. Was hoping it would be re-released in Metal as well but I guess that was too much to wish for.

At least its not finecast resin any more!

now they're in a hurry to get everything out

odd thing to leave out existing models of units wth profiles, it doesn't make much sense.

with such rich history of chaos models, I was expecting some realms of chaos mto or rare randomness like the bearmen of urslo as mercenaries.

and I hope not even a single new character or interesting old models/mto doesn't set a precedent for future armies (I really want Scarloc and Handmaidens mto!)

 lord_blackfang wrote:
OMG it happened, people are nostalgic for Forsaken, the universally hated upon release laughing stock of a kit.

Yeah, as a product in isolation, the Forsaken kit sucks. But if you are a Chaos player of any of the 5 stripes, its a goldmine for bits to customize your army. I'd buy 2 boxes for that purpose alone.

depends on what you want, it wasn't even great for that
it made nice mutated Chaos Warriors or Barbarians, but those than were just better looking Forsaken

 Da Boss wrote:
I love how the Chaos Warriors look all ranked up - really intimidating imo!

I have said it many a time before and I will say it again: the 6th ed Chaos Warriors instantly evoke the Mark of Chaos trailer (for the uninitiated or nostalgic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5enBMSH5ghc), and for that reason, they are perfect.

These Chaos Warriors have not been gone long enough to be nostalgic about. We are still glad to finaly be rid of them.
So many cool champions and sorcerers they could have done as made to order.

Manticore has some really cool riders, but the beast itself look like a fat guy in a plush suit for childrens TV show.

Disappointed. Had hoped for at least one new model seeing as every other faction has received some, doesn't seem like the warshrine is in the arcane journal though that's somewhat expected with the no models in both systems nonsense, and no forsaken which were a bits gold mine. And given all of the riches on offer for chaos that made to order selection is far too light.

Guess it's a matter of waiting for the Praag narrative to actually receive something new, but I'm underwhelmed in the meantime.

What I really want to see is an MTO for the Realm of Chaos books.

 SgtEeveell wrote:
What I really want to see is an MTO for the Realm of Chaos books.

Yes.

And a reprint of Waaaargh! The Orks. Maybe with the comparatively scant lore sections of ‘Ere We Go! and Freebooterz added, if we can’t have all three volumes.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
OMG it happened, people are nostalgic for Forsaken, the universally hated upon release laughing stock of a kit. Just waiting for someone to be glad we're getting the Manticore and Chimera back. So far no such brave soul.

I don't think anyone would argue that the Forsaken kit alone is good, by any means.

But some of the heads and arms are great to beef out models in fantasy, aos, or 40k and it's been impossible to get them anywhere

Haha!

That’s where you’re wrong!



That kit and its background were ace. It showed the colossal, staggering, downside of Chaos Worship. That becoming Chosen was as much a matter of luck than judgment. And that there are stages of damnation.

It reminded me of Proper Manky Body Horror Chaos. Where the Gods care not how you’re rewarded, only that you were.

There’s also a certain nobility to them in the background. That you might be horrifically mutated and potentially crippled by the same? But maybe, just maybe, you can ascend to Daemonhood. And even if you’re not that lucky, die gloriously before you become a Chaos Spawn.

There seems to be quite a bit of hate/shock that there are no new models.
Remember this was all planned out 6 months to a year ago and production done, packaging, transport and accumulation at warehouses around the world for simultaneous release.

There have only been old models released for all factions, with a spinkling of 1-3 new models per faction (mostly characters) with the exception of the full unit of bretonnian foot knights.

I think the release of old models that would fit with people's existing collections and the need to not spend any money on new kits/models was a sensible idea for GW until they could see how profitable/successful it would be.

The ramp up in releases indicates that there has been a pivot by GW to focus more on WTOW, but as I indicated earlier, it cannot be done overnight it takes months for the logistical side of things to wash through.
Now though expect a rush on the main factions and when that is done GW will be able to work out what to do with legacy armies and may start to support them.
Or they may then go back to the main armies and start doing new models for them.
Or a combination of both.

How about chaos dwarfs with the legacy list redone in the 90s style (my favorite) but with modern techniques in manufacture?

I've heard from numerous staff that WTOW has been outselling AOS for months (although that was at the tail end of the last AOS edition).
Anecdotally in my area WTOW has more players and several AOS players switched over, either with old armies, or starting completely new ones, and there are only a handful of hardcore players left.
I'm rebasing my O&G army and am looking at buying orc chariots and other models and I have a huge O&G army, so GW will be making money on sales even from me.

 kodos wrote:
depends on what you want, it wasn't even great for that
it made nice mutated Chaos Warriors or Barbarians, but those than were just better looking Forsaken

For me it's a kit for conversions, not just simple kitbash. The Forsaken looked silly because they A) had too much random mutations on one model and B) needed too fit in a regiment. You don't have those restrictions if you use the parts in other games and with other models.

 Shakalooloo wrote:

 Skywave wrote:
Gaulrauch as the special character is cool, and wonder who the other one might be. It cannot be any Archaon models, and timeline-wise I don't know if Arbaal or Egrimm were around, but I'd really love to see Egrimm back as a model!

Egrimm started as a magister of the Light College, which hasn't been founded yet, so he's out as a possibiliy. I don't know if Arbaal ever got an origin story, so nothing rules him out. Maybe we'll get yet another rendition of Scylla Anfinngrim!

Arbaal was the one who broke the gates at the Siege of Praag, and survived the final battle where Chaos was defeated. Valnir the Reaper was also present during those events, but he didn't survive.

 Baragash wrote:
Valnir the Reaper was also present during those events, but he didn't survive.

That was retconned, Valnir was now killed during the End Times.

I guess Arbaal was no longer Undefeated...still one of my favorite mini's ever made by GDubs

 Marshal Loss wrote:


Guess it's a matter of waiting for the Praag narrative to actually receive something new, but I'm underwhelmed in the meantime.

There won't be a Praag narrative for a very long time if ever. GW was quite clear on that point.

 Dryaktylus wrote:

 kodos wrote:
depends on what you want, it wasn't even great for that
it made nice mutated Chaos Warriors or Barbarians, but those than were just better looking Forsaken

For me it's a kit for conversions, not just simple kitbash. The Forsaken looked silly because they A) had too much random mutations on one model and B) needed too fit in a regiment. You don't have those restrictions if you use the parts in other games and with other models.

so the 40k players are excited to get a bits box, the same way they were excited about Stormcast to make TrueScale Blood Angels

The kit being good because you want to use it in another game is not really a point as it would take up a slot for release that is filled with a unit useful for TOW

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Baragash wrote:
Valnir the Reaper was also present during those events, but he didn't survive.

That was retconned, Valnir was now killed during the End Times.

Valnir’s whole backstory was that he died at Praag but was resurrected by Nurgle to continue reaping. Presumably it was the resurrected Valnir that died/was destroyed in ET. He’s just not the same character without the first death.

Does leave a niche for a pre-death Valnir for TOW though.

Here's the part that confuses me:

Warhammer Community wrote:...and while there is a new special character featured in Arcane Journal – more on her in due course – there are no new miniatures scheduled in this release.

So, new character, but NOT a new mini? Have they done that recently?

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:
Here's the part that confuses me:

Warhammer Community wrote:...and while there is a new special character featured in Arcane Journal – more on her in due course – there are no new miniatures scheduled in this release.

So, new character, but NOT a new mini? Have they done that recently?

Sounds like they intended you to use either Khagra or her sister sorcerer, but didnt get clearance to bring them over to square bases.

I get a kind of gut feeling that the whole "divide the model lines" was a late plan not an early plan. So it might be that for Slaves to Darkness (which GW couldn't take out of AoS like they did Beastmen and I'm still surprised they got away with that!) the AOS team was going to poach a few models.

You think GW will rerelease the old Emperor chaos dragon from forgeworld?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Haha!

That’s where you’re wrong!

That kit and its background were ace. It showed the colossal, staggering, downside of Chaos Worship. That becoming Chosen was as much a matter of luck than judgment. And that there are stages of damnation.

It reminded me of Proper Manky Body Horror Chaos. Where the Gods care not how you’re rewarded, only that you were.

There’s also a certain nobility to them in the background. That you might be horrifically mutated and potentially crippled by the same? But maybe, just maybe, you can ascend to Daemonhood. And even if you’re not that lucky, die gloriously before you become a Chaos Spawn.

I agree with this. I would have bought these guys back in the day, but I was suffering major WHFB burnout from that edition. So I wasn't buying models for a game I wasn't playing. Now that I'm getting ready to play again, they're a unit I genuinely want. I'd use them as ironically-named Chosen in this edition if I could actually get them.

I like that all the minis in the current Chaos Vanguard are tagged as "Returning" in TOW.

GW should sell a set of square "Chaos" bases and call it good.

 Overread wrote:
I get a kind of gut feeling that the whole "divide the model lines" was a late plan not an early plan. So it might be that for Slaves to Darkness (which GW couldn't take out of AoS like they did Beastmen and I'm still surprised they got away with that!) the AOS team was going to poach a few models.

I don't think so. They have been doing it for years with 40K/Horus Heresy. It was probably planned from the start, especially with which factions were going to be supported vs. legacy.

 TalonZahn wrote:
I like that all the minis in the current Chaos Vanguard are tagged as "Returning" in TOW.

GW should sell a set of square "Chaos" bases and call it good.

With the exception of the chariot abd the lord, they're entirely different models.

 SgtEeveell wrote:

 Overread wrote:
I get a kind of gut feeling that the whole "divide the model lines" was a late plan not an early plan. So it might be that for Slaves to Darkness (which GW couldn't take out of AoS like they did Beastmen and I'm still surprised they got away with that!) the AOS team was going to poach a few models.

I don't think so. They have been doing it for years with 40K/Horus Heresy. It was probably planned from the start, especially with which factions were going to be supported vs. legacy.

Years, as in since last summer?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/06/01/legions-and-legends-warhammer-the-horus-heresy-models-in-games-of-warhammer-40000/

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/06/21/the-legends-of-the-horus-heresy-get-downloadable-rules-for-warhammer-40000/

Between first and second edition, heresy didn't lose any 40k units either. The first real evidence of this change was last year, with the exclusion of "heresy" units from tournament-play army selection in modern tenth edition 40k (along with other more 40k originating legends).

The split seems to strange to me. Obviously they'll make whatever decisions they'll make for business and/or ego reasons, but we have:

1. Warriors of Chaos, who have both an old range in TOW and a new range of near-equivalents and replacements in AoS

2. Lizardmen, who have AoS replacements and new models but are legacy

3. Ogres, who have an old range and are in AoS

4. Beasts, who have an old range and fell out of AoS

I just can't really discern a pattern, but also it's not like GW needs to follow on or owes us explanations.

Longstrider wrote:
...but also it's not like GW needs to follow on or owes us explanations.

Owe? No. But a better understanding would be appreciated.

Santtu wrote:
I'd rather not get lung cancer from working with FW resin, not to mention I'd rather get actual value for my money.

I don't suppose you can cite any examples of that happening, can you?

And, heck, given everything that's happened since the start of 2020, you'd think people might understand how to wear a mask when breathing around something they think my be a hazard...

 Dysartes wrote:

Santtu wrote:
I'd rather not get lung cancer from working with FW resin, not to mention I'd rather get actual value for my money.

I don't suppose you can cite any examples of that happening, can you?

And, heck, given everything that's happened since the start of 2020, you'd think people might understand how to wear a mask when breathing around something they think my be a hazard...

You'd like to think that, but you'd be wrong.

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

Longstrider wrote:
...but also it's not like GW needs to follow on or owes us explanations.

Owe? No. But a better understanding would be appreciated.

Oh, for sure. Don't get me wrong - it absolutely grinds my gears that Beasts are only TOW and Ogres are only AOS, and that Warriors get into both but with two separate ranges which you could also do for Lizards but didn't. It doesn't super matter to my little group of home gamers because we're just continuing to use the legacy lists, but I would like some symmetry in product offering. I just also get that apparently it doesn't really bother THAT many people.

The scope of the game has changed they said, if it continues to sell well - don’t be surprised if lizards come back in the next edition.

 nathan2004 wrote:
The scope of the game has changed they said, if it continues to sell well - don’t be surprised if lizards come back in the next edition.

Right now I expect that end of 1.0 or start of 2.0 will see them releasing the Kislev and Cathay models that they teased design work for when they started Old World marketing. Those will be 100% new armies (Kislev might get a few classics released on made-to-order as they did have some original old models).

After that I'd expect a shift from old models and old armies to taking the current armies and giving them updated models with a mix of fewer larger wave updates and a few getting perhaps a new leader or such as they update through the edition.

I can't see GW continuing to release old classic armies, esp since they very clearly want as much separation between the studios as possible. Lizardmen are 100% in AoS and it would be crazy to move them back over to Old World unless GW have a long term plan to retire AOS and grow Old World only. I cannot see that being a plan right now.


Once Kislev and Cathay are out GW will have to shift to new designs and sculpts for armies as the nostalgia bug will be over by then.

The onyl force I can see jumping, and honestly I'm shocked they haven't'; is the old Dark Elf stuff. Because the army is basically there and untouched in AoS save for one expansion book that melded it back into Daughters of Khaine. Honestly I still don't get why the DE stuff is still in AoS right now. GW don't seem to be pushing it in AoS at all and they aren't moving it into OW - instead they moved beastmen that honestly were likely doing just fine in AoS.

 nathan2004 wrote:
The scope of the game has changed they said, if it continues to sell well - don’t be surprised if lizards come back in the next edition.

Especially if GW has a surplus of old seraphon kits lying around

 GaroRobe wrote:

 nathan2004 wrote:
The scope of the game has changed they said, if it continues to sell well - don’t be surprised if lizards come back in the next edition.

Especially if GW has a surplus of old seraphon kits lying around

They won't do. Those kits have been off sale for months now; any business would have long since destroyed stock of that age to avoid the unnecessary warehousing costs and use of space.

Wasn't expecting skin wolves! I sold mine and regretted it later.

Greenfield wrote:

 GaroRobe wrote:

 nathan2004 wrote:
The scope of the game has changed they said, if it continues to sell well - don’t be surprised if lizards come back in the next edition.

Especially if GW has a surplus of old seraphon kits lying around

They won't do. Those kits have been off sale for months now; any business would have long since destroyed stock of that age to avoid the unnecessary warehousing costs and use of space.

GW has been selling old oop Empire, High Elf, and other former Fantasy models no longer in AoS at events all year. They don't destroy old stock.

I feel like Lizardmen will come back once their current monsters get new AoS versions and you have everything original the Seraphon with it's AoS iconography. That could be a decade or more though and like with skaven I'm not holding my breath.

I see the dark elves coming back after the eventual removal from Cities which should happen this edition of AoS. Ogres I can honestly see getting canned in AoS and brought back over when Cathay becomes a thing. Outside of two characters and a warcry warband they haven't gotten a single thing since AoS dropped in 7 years and those 3 things still fit the ToW style and not really AoS. Similar to beasts.

 Platuan4th wrote:

Greenfield wrote:

 GaroRobe wrote:

 nathan2004 wrote:
The scope of the game has changed they said, if it continues to sell well - don’t be surprised if lizards come back in the next edition.

Especially if GW has a surplus of old seraphon kits lying around

They won't do. Those kits have been off sale for months now; any business would have long since destroyed stock of that age to avoid the unnecessary warehousing costs and use of space.

GW has been selling old oop Empire, High Elf, and other former Fantasy models no longer in AoS at events all year. They don't destroy old stock.

At events in the US? Well, they haven't been shipping that stock back to the UK in between events then either, have they? If the Events team hold a certain amount of their own stock in the US warehouse, sure, they might go on taking it to events to sell-off. But if Lizardmen kits aren't appearing on sale at those events either, what does that tell you?

No manufacturer keeps old stock indefinitely. Stock gets destroyed all the time by pretty much every manufacturer.

Greenfield wrote:

 GaroRobe wrote:

 nathan2004 wrote:
The scope of the game has changed they said, if it continues to sell well - don’t be surprised if lizards come back in the next edition.

Especially if GW has a surplus of old seraphon kits lying around

They won't do. Those kits have been off sale for months now; any business would have long since destroyed stock of that age to avoid the unnecessary warehousing costs and use of space.

GW doesn't incur additional warehousing costs for holding stock in the UK.

There's a lot of folks in denial that need to accept the idea that AoS is the fantasy flagship game and GW has made its decision about what factions are part of the TOW brand vs the AoS brand


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Baragash wrote:

Greenfield wrote:

 GaroRobe wrote:

 nathan2004 wrote:
The scope of the game has changed they said, if it continues to sell well - don’t be surprised if lizards come back in the next edition.

Especially if GW has a surplus of old seraphon kits lying around

They won't do. Those kits have been off sale for months now; any business would have long since destroyed stock of that age to avoid the unnecessary warehousing costs and use of space.

GW doesn't incur additional warehousing costs for holding stock in the UK.

Yes they do. Holding inventory costs money no matter where you have it.

So I'm just assuming the 'returning' Chaos Ogres are all the ones they couldn't sell the first time? Ugliest models they've ever made.

chaos0xomega wrote:
There's a lot of folks in denial that need to accept the idea that AoS is the fantasy flagship game and GW has made its decision about what factions are part of the TOW brand vs the AoS brand


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Baragash wrote:

Greenfield wrote:

 GaroRobe wrote:

 nathan2004 wrote:
The scope of the game has changed they said, if it continues to sell well - don’t be surprised if lizards come back in the next edition.

Especially if GW has a surplus of old seraphon kits lying around

They won't do. Those kits have been off sale for months now; any business would have long since destroyed stock of that age to avoid the unnecessary warehousing costs and use of space.

GW doesn't incur additional warehousing costs for holding stock in the UK.

Yes they do. Holding inventory costs money no matter where you have it.

GW's UK warehousing costs are fixed and sunk because they are part of their site. They don't incur marginal costs associated with variable space allocation through 3rd party stock handling.

 kodos wrote:

 Dryaktylus wrote:

 kodos wrote:
depends on what you want, it wasn't even great for that
it made nice mutated Chaos Warriors or Barbarians, but those than were just better looking Forsaken

For me it's a kit for conversions, not just simple kitbash. The Forsaken looked silly because they A) had too much random mutations on one model and B) needed too fit in a regiment. You don't have those restrictions if you use the parts in other games and with other models.

so the 40k players are excited to get a bits box, the same way they were excited about Stormcast to make TrueScale Blood Angels

The kit being good because you want to use it in another game is not really a point as it would take up a slot for release that is filled with a unit useful for TOW

Of course I want it as a bitz box, nothing wrong with it.

And to be fair, did someone asked for those Chaos Ogres? Or Imperial Dwarves? And I mean even the Forsaken look better than those old Slayers or Ogres.

No one asked for those Dwarfs, neiter the metal nor the plastic ones
Hence why this was rather disappointing outside of Miners

Chaos Ogres on the other hand, I know sone people who wanted them back from the day GW released Ogre Kingdoms with the new style plastic ones (as they were a pain to get even when being regular available)

 Baragash wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
There's a lot of folks in denial that need to accept the idea that AoS is the fantasy flagship game and GW has made its decision about what factions are part of the TOW brand vs the AoS brand


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Baragash wrote:

Greenfield wrote:

 GaroRobe wrote:

 nathan2004 wrote:
The scope of the game has changed they said, if it continues to sell well - don’t be surprised if lizards come back in the next edition.

Especially if GW has a surplus of old seraphon kits lying around

They won't do. Those kits have been off sale for months now; any business would have long since destroyed stock of that age to avoid the unnecessary warehousing costs and use of space.

GW doesn't incur additional warehousing costs for holding stock in the UK.

Yes they do. Holding inventory costs money no matter where you have it.

GW's UK warehousing costs are fixed and sunk because they are part of their site. They don't incur marginal costs associated with variable space allocation through 3rd party stock handling.

Even if it's in their own space, storing stuff that isn't selling costs money. They may not be actively paying for that space, but then they're not using that space for something else that could sell and make them money.

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

 Baragash wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
There's a lot of folks in denial that need to accept the idea that AoS is the fantasy flagship game and GW has made its decision about what factions are part of the TOW brand vs the AoS brand


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Baragash wrote:

Greenfield wrote:

 GaroRobe wrote:

 nathan2004 wrote:
The scope of the game has changed they said, if it continues to sell well - don’t be surprised if lizards come back in the next edition.

Especially if GW has a surplus of old seraphon kits lying around

They won't do. Those kits have been off sale for months now; any business would have long since destroyed stock of that age to avoid the unnecessary warehousing costs and use of space.

GW doesn't incur additional warehousing costs for holding stock in the UK.

Yes they do. Holding inventory costs money no matter where you have it.

GW's UK warehousing costs are fixed and sunk because they are part of their site. They don't incur marginal costs associated with variable space allocation through 3rd party stock handling.

Even if it's in their own space, storing stuff that isn't selling costs money. They may not be actively paying for that space, but then they're not using that space for something else that could sell and make them money.

Yeah, this. Just taking up space that a live stock item could be using is a cost that doesn’t need to be borne when they could grind down the plastics to use as filler for new sprues and recycler the cardboard.
Storing the moulds makes more sense as they were a significant investment and take up noticeably less space.

Plus, as OW proves, moulds can be put back into production and resume generating an income. They are an investment that you keep.

In fact about the only time you see firms dumping moulds is either if they go through a massive quality upgrade and the old ones are just really bad; or if they are hitting very hard times or fully shutting down a model line entirely

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:
Even if it's in their own space, storing stuff that isn't selling costs money. They may not be actively paying for that space, but then they're not using that space for something else that could sell and make them money.

This would be true if the warehouse was full, but going by GW's Out of Stock issues, I guess the warehouse is quite empty.

SnotlingPimpWagon wrote:
metal horrors. Plastic didn’t do them any justice.

All the plastics had to do was replicate the unnerving barrel-fingers and be 25% smaller. They could have been fabulous!

 Gimgamgoo wrote:

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:
Even if it's in their own space, storing stuff that isn't selling costs money. They may not be actively paying for that space, but then they're not using that space for something else that could sell and make them money.

This would be true if the warehouse was full, but going by GW's Out of Stock issues, I guess the warehouse is quite empty.

If the Warehouse is empty because GW can't produce enough stock to keep things in stock then there'd be no big pallets full of unsold stuff because "GW can't keep things stocked fast enough." So it actually adds weight to the argument that there aren't big piles of stuff laying around.

Honestly the only reason they would have lots of stuff hanging around would be if the organisation of the warehouse has broken down and they don't know they've got it. Even if they did chances are they'd do warehouse clearing bundles like they did a while back when they were moving warehouses and just needed to clear what they had faster than normal for a short period.

Considering the stocking issues on multiple lines right now I'm confused why people think GW just has mountains of unsold stuff hanging around. Sure they have big production volume and will have big storage of stuff before sending it overseas in bulk; but they aren't (or at least sanity suggests they shouldn't) be sitting there hoarding models like some kind of model-addicted-dragon.



But again the warehouse won't be empty because its all stock moving through it. A constant churn that's enough to stop everything falling apart but isn't quite enough to overcome all the production demand they have right now.

 Gimgamgoo wrote:

This would be true if the warehouse was full, but going by GW's Out of Stock issues, I guess the warehouse is quite empty.

The warehouse is likely full of stuff that isn't out of stock.

I think those Chaos Warriors might be my favourite rank & file models ever. Poses specifically designed with the overall effect in mind and beautiful models individually. They also, importantly, look great from behind.

 His Master's Voice wrote:

 Gimgamgoo wrote:

This would be true if the warehouse was full, but going by GW's Out of Stock issues, I guess the warehouse is quite empty.

The warehouse is likely full of stuff that isn't out of stock.

Also we know they pre-emptively stockpile stuff before big releases like edition boxes, so they’ll be space put aside for that.

 Overread wrote:

 Gimgamgoo wrote:

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:
Even if it's in their own space, storing stuff that isn't selling costs money. They may not be actively paying for that space, but then they're not using that space for something else that could sell and make them money.

This would be true if the warehouse was full, but going by GW's Out of Stock issues, I guess the warehouse is quite empty.

If the Warehouse is empty because GW can't produce enough stock to keep things in stock then there'd be no big pallets full of unsold stuff because "GW can't keep things stocked fast enough." So it actually adds weight to the argument that there aren't big piles of stuff laying around.

Honestly the only reason they would have lots of stuff hanging around would be if the organisation of the warehouse has broken down and they don't know they've got it. Even if they did chances are they'd do warehouse clearing bundles like they did a while back when they were moving warehouses and just needed to clear what they had faster than normal for a short period.

Considering the stocking issues on multiple lines right now I'm confused why people think GW just has mountains of unsold stuff hanging around. Sure they have big production volume and will have big storage of stuff before sending it overseas in bulk; but they aren't (or at least sanity suggests they shouldn't) be sitting there hoarding models like some kind of model-addicted-dragon.



But again the warehouse won't be empty because its all stock moving through it. A constant churn that's enough to stop everything falling apart but isn't quite enough to overcome all the production demand they have right now.

The point is that storing old stock is only an opportunity cost if you have something else to put into that storage space. Obviously the warehouse isn't completely empty, but it may not be completely full and therefore storing some old stock might be feasible. Breaking all those boxes open to recycle the parts is a labour opportunity cost that could be used for something else if the old stock isn't currently in the way. Not saying this is happening, but it is feasible.

Also, some popular lines being out of stock doesn't mean everything is. Stuff isn't equally popular.

Longstrider wrote:
The split seems to strange to me. Obviously they'll make whatever decisions they'll make for business and/or ego reasons, but we have:

1. Warriors of Chaos, who have both an old range in TOW and a new range of near-equivalents and replacements in AoS

2. Lizardmen, who have AoS replacements and new models but are legacy

3. Ogres, who have an old range and are in AoS

4. Beasts, who have an old range and fell out of AoS

I just can't really discern a pattern, but also it's not like GW needs to follow on or owes us explanations.

I think it was ultimately just a negotiation, but the agreement between Specialist Games Studio and the main studio wasn't just about the range, but also about what are going to be major AOS releases in the forseeable. Lizardmen got their big release, and Chaos Dwarves and Ogres are heavily rumoured to get refreshes this edition. Beasts weren't and the range didn't sell for AOS so it got dumped.

Chaos may have just been a compromise because the SPS felt they really couldn't have a launch that didn't include Chaos. People would have gone nuts.

It's why I think over time if there's a feeling that there's enough of a range and there's a few years after a major range refresh that we'll start to see many of the legacy factions creep back in to TOW. Lizardmen, Vampire Counts and Deamons really could just use their old ranges, even if nobody would really buy the old models (save for Deamonettes) over using the AOS equivalents. But that doesn't seem to be a problem for Chaos, or Night Goblins. I suspect Deamons might still have made the cut if it wasn't for the old range being entirely metal, which specialist games clearly still have an issue scaling up production for but that will become less of a problem as time goes on.

 Haighus wrote:

 Overread wrote:

 Gimgamgoo wrote:

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:
Even if it's in their own space, storing stuff that isn't selling costs money. They may not be actively paying for that space, but then they're not using that space for something else that could sell and make them money.

This would be true if the warehouse was full, but going by GW's Out of Stock issues, I guess the warehouse is quite empty.

If the Warehouse is empty because GW can't produce enough stock to keep things in stock then there'd be no big pallets full of unsold stuff because "GW can't keep things stocked fast enough." So it actually adds weight to the argument that there aren't big piles of stuff laying around.

Honestly the only reason they would have lots of stuff hanging around would be if the organisation of the warehouse has broken down and they don't know they've got it. Even if they did chances are they'd do warehouse clearing bundles like they did a while back when they were moving warehouses and just needed to clear what they had faster than normal for a short period.

Considering the stocking issues on multiple lines right now I'm confused why people think GW just has mountains of unsold stuff hanging around. Sure they have big production volume and will have big storage of stuff before sending it overseas in bulk; but they aren't (or at least sanity suggests they shouldn't) be sitting there hoarding models like some kind of model-addicted-dragon.



But again the warehouse won't be empty because its all stock moving through it. A constant churn that's enough to stop everything falling apart but isn't quite enough to overcome all the production demand they have right now.

The point is that storing old stock is only an opportunity cost if you have something else to put into that storage space. Obviously the warehouse isn't completely empty, but it may not be completely full and therefore storing some old stock might be feasible. Breaking all those boxes open to recycle the parts is a labour opportunity cost that could be used for something else if the old stock isn't currently in the way. Not saying this is happening, but it is feasible.

Also, some popular lines being out of stock doesn't mean everything is. Stuff isn't equally popular.

Isn't GW expanding their warehousing capabilities because of a lack of space?

Regardless, I can't say for sure if they have old inventory or not, but I am fairly certain there is a 0% chance GW doesn't have a small team dedicated to their logistics, and a 0% chance they don't utilize a inventory holding costs formula when deciding what to keep or not - which, unless there are far reaching plans, would rationally incentivize the warehouse staff to clear items no longer being sold. And if there isn't a someone managing GW's supply chain analytics in this way, shareholders should be up in arms.

 Cap'n Facebeard wrote:
So I'm just assuming the 'returning' Chaos Ogres are all the ones they couldn't sell the first time? Ugliest models they've ever made.

They're ugly but have a certain charm to them. I for one look forward to grabbing a set of the RnF ones cause I was only ever able to get the 3 command models.

No_Marines_Here wrote:I think those Chaos Warriors might be my favourite rank & file models ever. Poses specifically designed with the overall effect in mind and beautiful models individually. They also, importantly, look great from behind.

I'll die on the hill that the fanbase's insistence on action hero pose models was a detriment to WFB. Anyone who has actually moved or fought in a formation like that understands perfectly why synchronized movements are essential. If I wasn't already arms deep in a Chaos Warriors army, then I'd have snapped up that battalion set in a heartbeat. As it stands now, I only want chariots and Marauders.

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Cap'n Facebeard wrote:
So I'm just assuming the 'returning' Chaos Ogres are all the ones they couldn't sell the first time? Ugliest models they've ever made.

They're ugly but have a certain charm to them. I for one look forward to grabbing a set of the RnF ones cause I was only ever able to get the 3 command models.

Yeah, they do have a lot of character even if the sculpts aren't technically great.

I had a very faint hope of seeing the FW Chaos Ogre that was available for one Gamesday, I wish that I hadn't sold mine

I take it forsaken were... forsaken?

 Overread wrote:
Plus, as OW proves, moulds can be put back into production and resume generating an income. They are an investment that you keep.

In fact about the only time you see firms dumping moulds is either if they go through a massive quality upgrade and the old ones are just really bad; or if they are hitting very hard times or fully shutting down a model line entirely

Most commonly it's when the molds are for licensed ip amd the license expires. In the modern day licensing agreements for such product lines typically stipulate the molds/production tooling must be destroyed or rendered unusable at the termination of the license.

chaos0xomega wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Plus, as OW proves, moulds can be put back into production and resume generating an income. They are an investment that you keep.

In fact about the only time you see firms dumping moulds is either if they go through a massive quality upgrade and the old ones are just really bad; or if they are hitting very hard times or fully shutting down a model line entirely

Most commonly it's when the molds are for licensed ip amd the license expires. In the modern day licensing agreements for such product lines typically stipulate the molds/production tooling must be destroyed or rendered unusable at the termination of the license.

That's a very good point! Yes that's a great example of where moulds would be destroyed.
Or the contract specifies that the moulds must go back to the IP holding firm, who then likely having no setup for using them, would destroy/dispose of them (or store them in some warehouse and forget about them entirely)

This "old stock" gak is conspiracy theory territory at this point. Remember when Kill Team 2018 was previewed and folks were screaming it's GW's way of unloading Skitarii and Neophyte overstock, and then they came as colored sprues? And then the same story repeated with each kill team terrain box?

my feeling is that if there's any truth to the matter, it's GW bringing back old kits into new box sets to make the numbers look better, like taking a kit that undersold and putting it in a box set so you can claim x part of that box's revenue as for the kit... but even that much is very, very unproven

 StudentOfEtherium wrote:
my feeling is that if there's any truth to the matter, it's GW bringing back old kits into new box sets to make the numbers look better, like taking a kit that undersold and putting it in a box set so you can claim x part of that box's revenue as for the kit... but even that much is very, very unproven

Yeah, for accounting purposes they might stick a kit that has failed to amortise it's production cost by not selling enough into a box, so it gets a share of that revenue to make it a profitable project. But that's still a new production run.

We know GW *do* destroy stuff if it's not going to sell. We saw them have piles of stock outside to be destroyed that time someone flew a drone over GW HQ.

The only time I know for certain that they destroyed stock was when they had a whole load contaminated with sewage from a leak up the road from them. That's where all those Eldar Collectors Coins went (and which, along with a bunch of other stuff, were then stolen from the workplace and sold on ebay).


There IS logic in destroying a gross overstock of a product instead of flooding the market with it. Warmachine had that issue when they sold off loads and loads of it to clear their warehouse and overstock. It floods the market with product and cheaper product and then after that big flooding you get a lull.

Also GW have been smart to not fall too far into the discount trap. I know in 3D printing if you want stuff to sell it HAS to be on sale and at a decent percentage; otherwise people wait. Indeed its another reason some superstores are "always in a sale" because they've basically had so many so often that customers just wait till the next one.

What in the heck does the minutiae of GWs stock warehousing have to do with TOW again?

MaxT wrote:
What in the heck does the minutiae of GWs stock warehousing have to do with TOW again?

People are wondering what's with the slow rollout.

I was looking forward to Chaos Warriors coming back but it really looks like they're doing the bare minimum here, not even any new resin sculpts like a new sorceror or bsb on foot. And it looks like they aren't bringing the old mark of chaos video game sorcerer. Would've been nice to see that sculpt again, even if it was made to order.

Btw, does anyone know if the heads of the AoS chaos warriors fit on these old plastic sculpts that are returning? Might not be a bad idea to grab a few bits here and there to add variety to the unit.

So there will not be an official model soon for the WoC beast handler, or whatever it is called, the book is not near me at the moment.

 Shrapnelsmile wrote:
So there will not be an official model soon for the WoC beast handler, or whatever it is called, the book is not near me at the moment.

Maybe they'll release a FW model eventually. I'm planning on just using the AOS Bloodstoker

 GaroRobe wrote:
I'm planning on just using the AOS Bloodstoker

Good idea, he should blend easily with the rest.

I always found the 2000s Chaos warriors good for 40k Imperials, they stand up straight and with a head swap they're not too chaosy.




For all their faults I liked the 1990s hunched over chaos warriors for chaos. They looked twisted and mutated and like they had made a very bad life decision, which to me is what GW chaos is all about. I'd love to see an update on them some time.

I'm using all my hunched 1990's plastics as halberdiers (since I got the metal halberd arms before they added the awful plastic halberds to the refreshed sprue). I might use mine for chosen and add in bits from the old mutation sprue while I'm at it.

I dont know why people are even considering this a slow rollout to begin with. There's a new edition of AoS, that was always going to take up a huge chunk of the year. Yeah stuff is delayed a bit and it sucks. I've been waiting for Empire to finally get put out as I've been waiting to pick up more Pistoliers ever since they were culled from the AoS.

 Thargrim wrote:
I was looking forward to Chaos Warriors coming back but it really looks like they're doing the bare minimum here, not even any new resin sculpts like a new sorceror or bsb on foot. And it looks like they aren't bringing the old mark of chaos video game sorcerer. Would've been nice to see that sculpt again, even if it was made to order.

Btw, does anyone know if the heads of the AoS chaos warriors fit on these old plastic sculpts that are returning? Might not be a bad idea to grab a few bits here and there to add variety to the unit.

That's an excellent question...I'm curious if they do or not either.

 Thargrim wrote:
Btw, does anyone know if the heads of the AoS chaos warriors fit on these old plastic sculpts that are returning? Might not be a bad idea to grab a few bits here and there to add variety to the unit.

They do, but the 'old' heads are quite a bit bigger, so the warriors may look a little pinhead-y. The bad kind of pinhead-y.

 The Phazer wrote:

I think it was ultimately just a negotiation, but the agreement between Specialist Games Studio and the main studio wasn't just about the range, but also about what are going to be major AOS releases in the forseeable. Lizardmen got their big release, and Chaos Dwarves and Ogres are heavily rumoured to get refreshes this edition. Beasts weren't and the range didn't sell for AOS so it got dumped.

Chaos may have just been a compromise because the SPS felt they really couldn't have a launch that didn't include Chaos. People would have gone nuts.

It's why I think over time if there's a feeling that there's enough of a range and there's a few years after a major range refresh that we'll start to see many of the legacy factions creep back in to TOW. Lizardmen, Vampire Counts and Deamons really could just use their old ranges, even if nobody would really buy the old models (save for Deamonettes) over using the AOS equivalents. But that doesn't seem to be a problem for Chaos, or Night Goblins. I suspect Deamons might still have made the cut if it wasn't for the old range being entirely metal, which specialist games clearly still have an issue scaling up production for but that will become less of a problem as time goes on.

Yeah, all of that is not unreasonable. And realistically I suspect there's much more nostalgia for 6E Chaos plastics than there are for 6E Lizardmen. But yeah, potentially TOW could be a relegation league of sorts - if the Skink fliers, skinks, and the big dinos get AoSified the old ones could go to TOW. But we're also already there with old Vampire Counts already, I think? IF "the scope of the project has grown" translates to "more legacy factions will go mainstream" I could see VCs being one of the first back in (or Dark Elves once they drop from Cities and the basic Witch Elves get a new kit).

If that was ever on the table then Lizardmen, VC and Skaven would have already been slated for TOW and labeled core from the getgo most likely. There's just a handful of kits in each of those factions that aren't already AOSified or in the process of being redone.

 DaveC wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/08/11/sunday-preview-don-your-hunting-rig-and-enter-hive-secundus/

There's the terrain announcement plus the missing Orc Shaman and some more Dwarves - going to be expensive!

Somewhat interested in those hills. Any grogs here remember them?

While they look okay I recall them being a bit naff for actually using the slope for units. As much as they look less realistic I do see why home made foamboard 1-inch-mesa style hills get used prominently.

Is there an ongoing narrative campaign going on with TOW yet or is it still just a static setting?

For now it's mostly static - the initial narrative is supposed to be based in the border princes in IC 2076 but they haven't yet really explored it.

GrosseSax wrote:
Is there an ongoing narrative campaign going on with TOW yet or is it still just a static setting?

There's rumors/ wishful thinking that it might be an eventual lead up to the great chaos war but that's a lot of time in between. If it's true maybe we can get a Magnus the Pious model out of it

There are no real rumors of that it's all speculation and wishful thinking, undercut by GW themselves saying the plan isn't to advance the narrative to that point and that future narratives will be set before the "present day" of the game

With how many cuts TOW has had, I doubt we get any big narrative stuff. Kislev, Cathay, all the legends factions.

If The Plan is for Old World to be the Fantasy version of Horus Heresy, then I would expect some kind of campaign/narrative supplements at some point, but not until at least the nine core factions have been (more-or-less) fully released.

Since they aren't advancing the narrative to the Great War Against Chaos, and we won't be seeing anything prior to this time period as that would involve Legacy Factions - unless they intend to revisit historical events which only focus on the core factions, such as War of the Beard - it's going to be interesting to see what they come up with.

Why does TOW need an ongoing narrative, rather than being a known, static setting?

I know I don't want it turning into the sort of lore mess 40k has become since The Gathering Storm began...

People like following stories.

Of course tabletop games have limits; characters and races aren't going to vanish overnight just for the narrative; named heroes are going to survive all the time; nations are unlikely to make big changes in society; structure or even territories (Or if they do then its just big changes that don't actually change anything)

 Dysartes wrote:
Why does TOW need an ongoing narrative, rather than being a known, static setting?

I know I don't want it turning into the sort of lore mess 40k has become since The Gathering Storm began...

for ongoing releases there are 2 possibilities, advancing story line or advancing list development

So TOW either gets campaign books advancing the story and/or covering famous battles, or next thing after the jounals will be full army books and new edition

And most people would prefer the first option abd not making a specialist game that is all about competitive meta development

It's not exactly an "advancing storyline" if it's just following the history that's already there.
At most its an exploratory storyline.

chaos0xomega wrote:
There are no real rumors of that it's all speculation and wishful thinking, undercut by GW thenselves sayingbtheorbplan isn't to advance the narrative to that point and that future narratives will be set before the "present day" of the game

Where did they say this?

It was in one of the warcom articles published around the time of release, I think "designer round table" may have been the title of it. It was an interview with the designers themselves.

Personally I don't think TOW necessarily needs anything, even if I have preferences. It's a good version of WHFB with all its problems but different (so like every other edition). But, presumably, once the Journals are done GW will want to keep selling books, if not more models, whether out of the hopes that that'll keep selling models to nostalgists or out of wanting to just sell books.

IF that's true - and as much as I want "the scope of the project has grown" to mean lots of things, it remains all speculative at this point and could just be that it's grown from very limited to just fairly limited - then I could see something like the 5E campaign supplements. Localised campaigns telling a relatively small story involving two or three armies doing a specific set of battles, maybe with an Ungrim-like character or two that affect your army list composition a bit.

Offhand the Bretonnian crusade against the Tomb Kings seems like an option, or an expedition from the upper floors of Karak Eight Peaks to the lower, or a little scrap between different Imperial electors, or those kinds of things.

What they actually said is they will jump around the timeline before Praag. Not "this is an ongoing narrative" or "this date here we've started at on launch with the Brets and Tomb Kings fighting is the present day, and we're going no further"

But all that will probably result in is more Arcane Journals for the various factions or if we're lucky (interpret that as sincere or sarcastic as you will) a narrative campaign book for a specific big event

There are plenty ‘historical’ periods they can dip into to release further armies, without choosing a set starting point and never going back further.

There's plenty of space to do campaign books and such even if they're not "advancing the narrative". I know a lot of people popped Sunny Ds and grew up playing video games where this moving storyline was popular, instead of having a setting like wargames traditionally have had, coming from historical gaming, but I'm still not sure it works well in tabletop. Certainly WFB went off the rails the second they started trying it during the 5th/6th edition period. And 40K's dark universe, whatever, timeline seems to have been about as memorable as any soap opera. Making new settings within an IP is great in tabletop, having to live through amateur hour storylines to get there, I don't know.

Even for fantasy battle they did historical campaigns, like Conquest of the New World and perhaps Tears of Isha?

That said, it would be pretty simple to do like they did with Total Warhammer and just make a supplement that move the game to lustria/naggaroth/ulthuan and add skaven, once the models are available.

chaos0xomega wrote:
If that was ever on the table then Lizardmen, VC and Skaven would have already been slated for TOW and labeled core from the getgo most likely. There's just a handful of kits in each of those factions that aren't already AOSified or in the process of being redone.

As I said, I don't think it's just that they've been redone, it's a combination of factors - if a range has been redone the main studio probably want SG to stay clear of it for a while to save confusion.

I'd speculate that maybe Lizardmen and Vampire Counts are getting to the point where the main studio cares less, but the decision has been made for now and SG still have like five factions to release, so if anything comes from that change it's probably a year to eighteen months away anyway.

No way GW leaves it at only 2 special characters per faction, so I expect campaigns books to introduce new ones as they go forward, with perhaps the occasional updated plastic kit here and there, maybe at a Necromunda release pace.

 Dysartes wrote:
Why does TOW need an ongoing narrative, rather than being a known, static setting?

I know I don't want it turning into the sort of lore mess 40k has become since The Gathering Storm began...

Because narrative players insist that every game system needs to cater to them whole hog, despite how little of the customer base they actually make up.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

CaptainKlang wrote:

 DaveC wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/08/11/sunday-preview-don-your-hunting-rig-and-enter-hive-secundus/

There's the terrain announcement plus the missing Orc Shaman and some more Dwarves - going to be expensive!

Somewhat interested in those hills. Any grogs here remember them?

I have one on the table right now. Accept that if you get one you'll need some way to keep any inclined units from sliding everywhere. It isn't nearly as bad since I started magnetizing, but the movement tray still occasionally needs propped up on a large die or have something resting against the edge of the unit to keep it from sliding off position.

 Just Tony wrote:
Because narrative players insist that every game system needs to cater to them whole hog, despite how little of the customer base they actually make up.

Man is this some god tier anti Matched Play snark or what?

I fully expect the first release after the 9th Arcane Journal will be some sort of campaign/narrative book. But they gotta get the base releases out there first IMO

MaxT wrote:
I fully expect the first release after the 9th Arcane Journal will be some sort of campaign/narrative book. But they gotta get the base releases out there first IMO

Nah there's no parity in GW games, if they feel like starting a new cycle with goodies for the first 7 factions out the door before the last 2 get anything, they will

Fortified Manor seems like a bizarrely good deal, both of the building kits at a slight discount with the Walls & Fences and "2x Warhammer Building Upgrade Sprues" completely free.

Anyone remember what those upgrade sprues are? Is that where the more sturdy looking stone walls and gate around the manor door come from?

Yeah, the upgrade sprue are the stone walls that ate not in any other kit

Compared to the Manor, all other terrain kits are overpriced, combining the stand alone sets is already 30€ more without the additional walls.

Even of one just wants the watchtower, it would be better to get the Manor and sell off the rest

€62.50 for the Arcane Ruins is more than I expected - still ordered 2 - being direct only not much choice. Got 2 manors as well which is much better value by comparison.

 DaveC wrote:
€62.50 for the Arcane Ruins is more than I expected - still ordered 2 - being direct only not much choice. Got 2 manors as well which is much better value by comparison.

That's crazy, we were paying 15-20 for them back in the day. The manor is just a few % more from discounters...

The arcane ruin was about what I expected for the sprue amount it contains, but is over priced for what it really is as a whole.

I also got two as its one terrain piece I never got way back when, I want one for an 'as is' and one for the wizards tower conversion from White Dwarf.

Picked up another three Manors. I honestly don't expect them to keep stocking them long term, so I might grab a few more if they are still in stock later. Its insane discount to buy as a whole rather than the buildings alone, the extra walls/tiles and outer walls are worth it alone, a couple of sets of them would let you build a good set of village walls with gate I'm sure.

I also got three sets of hills. I see a lot of people complain about them here and online, but honestly I suck at making terrain and they look nice. I think with less than an afternoons work they will match my table and work for almost every game I play and being plastic can be cut up to be converted to add some more variety (I might make one into some Barrow downs). I brought a basic foam cutting set but to be honest, work has be so worn out recently that I just don't have the energy to be making hills from scrap- but I can buy these and throw some glue and grass down on them. Quick and not too costly for a gw product.

Imperial stuff is fairly reasonably priced, Spesh as we don’t typically need more than a couple per collection.

Arcane Ruins seem pricey, but it is a favourite kit of mine. Fairly sure I’ve left over obeslisks in my box of forgotten bits, so a single one might go a decent way for me. Also, the socket the needle sits in is ripe for a thin layer of Green Stuff to be made into a pool of blood.

 Mallo wrote:
The arcane ruin was about what I expected for the sprue amount it contains, but is over priced for what it really is as a whole.

I also got two as its one terrain piece I never got way back when, I want one for an 'as is' and one for the wizards tower conversion from White Dwarf.

Picked up another three Manors. I honestly don't expect them to keep stocking them long term, so I might grab a few more if they are still in stock later. Its insane discount to buy as a whole rather than the buildings alone, the extra walls/tiles and outer walls are worth it alone, a couple of sets of them would let you build a good set of village walls with gate I'm sure.

I also got three sets of hills. I see a lot of people complain about them here and online, but honestly I suck at making terrain and they look nice. I think with less than an afternoons work they will match my table and work for almost every game I play and being plastic can be cut up to be converted to add some more variety (I might make one into some Barrow downs). I brought a basic foam cutting set but to be honest, work has be so worn out recently that I just don't have the energy to be making hills from scrap- but I can buy these and throw some glue and grass down on them. Quick and not too costly for a gw product.

Do you run tournaments? Why do you need 'another' three manors?

Holy feth. I am genuinely shocked and delighted that the Fortified manor is only a paltry, I say a PALTRY $200AUD.

Consider my gobsmacked, flabbergasted and well and truly speechless. I was expecting double that at minimum.

Im not the person you asked, but main reason is because it's the most cost-effective way to build a small village. Each manor is a house, a tower, and a collection of fences. You don't need to build them as a manor and you can kitbash them together to make some unique structures.

Also, mind your business.

I just ordered Ogdruz! So happy he's finally coming out. I'm having a great time with the Troll Horde

I still sit down with the 8th edition FB book from time to time, to just see the cool scenery they built using the various house kits, combining walls bits build uniqe struktures. Beautifull book to just flip through for inspiration.

I got the Arcane Ruins back in the days, on store sale as they were not really worth it for the full price

Now the kit is not very good compared what else you get on the market and specially not for that price

Yea I mean this kit is kinda doing the same thing, but a lot more for less...

https://archon-studio.com/shop/products/dungeons-lasers/land-of-the-giants

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Just Tony wrote:
Because narrative players insist that every game system needs to cater to them whole hog, despite how little of the customer base they actually make up.

Man is this some god tier anti Matched Play snark or what?

I would call it accuracy. If narrative players could get GW to break the game to the point that it was impossible for any casual or competitive play, they'd do so in a heartbeat. All other forms of play are wrong to them.

Good that TOW is purely competitive for now as there is no single "public" game in the region that is not a tournament training game

Bad narrative players trying to get something that was announced by GW instead of another tournament game were WAAC players argue that the rules written are not to be used because the designer intended something different


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Yea I mean this kit is kinda doing the same thing, but a lot more for less...

https://archon-studio.com/shop/products/dungeons-lasers/land-of-the-giants

Even if you stick with GW
https://www.warhammer.com/de-AT/shop/ruins-of-middle-earth-2022

How about both sides of the argument agree that

1) It doesn't mater if its narrative, competitive, casual or whatever - some people are just jerks when they play

2) GW doesn't chase narrative nor matched play players in a singular fashion. They just make some rules. Sometimes they are almost balanced; sometimes they aren't balanced at all - its luck of the draw what you get and it won't matter in the grand scheme of things because in 3 years they'll replace them.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Yea I mean this kit is kinda doing the same thing, but a lot more for less...

https://archon-studio.com/shop/products/dungeons-lasers/land-of-the-giants

Had a look, it’s nice! But £54.00, compared to the Arcane Ruins £47.50.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Yea I mean this kit is kinda doing the same thing, but a lot more for less...

https://archon-studio.com/shop/products/dungeons-lasers/land-of-the-giants

Had a look, it’s nice! But £54.00, compared to the Arcane Ruins £47.50.

It's only a 1.50€ difference in the € zone but I admit I misremembered how much someone above said they paid for Arcane Ruins (it was 62,50 versus Land of Giants 64€)

In any case my advice is "just buy extra Manors instead" (74€ from a discounter)

I could go the Arcane Ruins and the Land of the Giants

The Slayer of Legend is slightly more expensive than "Grombrindal," despite literally being the same model.

Whats left of my arcane ruins is in the attic somewhere. A really bad kit to put together and to small to intract with.

Chikout wrote:

 Mallo wrote:
The arcane ruin was about what I expected for the sprue amount it contains, but is over priced for what it really is as a whole.

I also got two as its one terrain piece I never got way back when, I want one for an 'as is' and one for the wizards tower conversion from White Dwarf.

Picked up another three Manors. I honestly don't expect them to keep stocking them long term, so I might grab a few more if they are still in stock later. Its insane discount to buy as a whole rather than the buildings alone, the extra walls/tiles and outer walls are worth it alone, a couple of sets of them would let you build a good set of village walls with gate I'm sure.

I also got three sets of hills. I see a lot of people complain about them here and online, but honestly I suck at making terrain and they look nice. I think with less than an afternoons work they will match my table and work for almost every game I play and being plastic can be cut up to be converted to add some more variety (I might make one into some Barrow downs). I brought a basic foam cutting set but to be honest, work has be so worn out recently that I just don't have the energy to be making hills from scrap- but I can buy these and throw some glue and grass down on them. Quick and not too costly for a gw product.

Do you run tournaments? Why do you need 'another' three manors?

No, I do not run tournaments.

It was cheaper to get sets than buying the buildings separately.

I want to convert the converted wizard tower from an old white dwarf (That alone uses two chapels and one tower + a bunch of other parts).

My gaming room supports a permanent 12 foot by 4 foot table set up, with space to increase that to 24 foot if I want to run a big siege or mega game during the holidays/special occasions. I currently don't have anywhere near enough terrain to cover that space though. I have one manor from back when they were available before, an extra watchtower I brought at not quite ebay prices before TOW came back and a couple of the old foam buildings.

I wasn't aware there was a limit on purchases.

 GaroRobe wrote:
The Slayer of Legend is slightly more expensive than "Grombrindal," despite literally being the same model.

Ironic, since when 'Grombrindal' was released, he was more expensive than the slayer because the picture on the packaging had the model with white hair instead of orange.

If GW is smart there won't be a limit on purchases! If they could actually keep these in stock for two full years that would be awesome. Very low effort profit. A lot of Mordheim boards will include some of these sets too.

I had to search pretty hard to find an Arcane Ruins ten years ago, it's an okay little set, but nowhere close to being worth 60 bucks. Nowadays with 3d printing there has to be way better stuff to purchase for that price.

I was surprised to see my two local shops, neither of which have a TOW scene, sell out of their allotted Fortified Manor pre-orders within a few hours.

 Mallo wrote:

I want to convert the converted wizard tower from an old white dwarf (That alone uses two chapels and one tower + a bunch of other parts).

Hey, offhand, do you have the WD issue number for that?

What I liked about the Arcane Ruins (got one from back in the day), was that there was a lot more pieces in there than you really need for the ruins itself, unless you love the look of using all the columns and stone header on that one piece. Even then you got like 3 broken column (2 parts each) as leftover.

I used only one header on it, and a few ruined columns on the rest of the spot, and it left me with a good amount of spares for other projects! I got two decently sized scatter terrain pieces and out of it and still had leftover!

 Prometheum5 wrote:

 Mallo wrote:

I want to convert the converted wizard tower from an old white dwarf (That alone uses two chapels and one tower + a bunch of other parts).

Hey, offhand, do you have the WD issue number for that?

I believe this is the one no idea on WD no.

 DaveC wrote:

 Prometheum5 wrote:

 Mallo wrote:

I want to convert the converted wizard tower from an old white dwarf (That alone uses two chapels and one tower + a bunch of other parts).

Hey, offhand, do you have the WD issue number for that?

I believe this is the one no idea on WD no.

Wow, that one would collapse from the breeze

1 Manor, 1 Hill, 1 extra Chapel, 1 Arcane Ruins, plastic card and metal bits
Going without the arcane ruins would be less impressive but also makes it more handy for gaming

And that it would not work with real physics is a big part of the old Warhammer design for any kind of building


Automatically Appended Next Post:

GrosseSax wrote:
I was surprised to see my two local shops, neither of which have a TOW scene, sell out of their allotted Fortified Manor pre-orders within a few hours.

The Manor is a good deal for what you get, even compared to non-GW terrain, this is not a suprise at all
It was more a suprise that it is <100€ as it would have still be ok for 120€ (and what most people expected, same price as the individual sets + extra frame for free)

 DaveC wrote:

 Prometheum5 wrote:

 Mallo wrote:

I want to convert the converted wizard tower from an old white dwarf (That alone uses two chapels and one tower + a bunch of other parts).

Hey, offhand, do you have the WD issue number for that?

I believe this is the one no idea on WD no.

Thats the one! Its WD 336.

These terain pieces were pretty cool when released, agreed.

Now, in the age of 3D printing they are obsolete as far as my needs are concerned.

Maybe, just maybe, if they are really cheap, but I doubt it.

Cyel wrote:
These terain pieces were pretty cool when released, agreed.

Now, in the age of 3D printing they are obsolete as far as my needs are concerned.

Maybe, just maybe, if they are really cheap, but I doubt it.

If you are not planning to purchase them, you are not the target audience. Fortified Manor and Arcane Ruins have been pretty sought after and sold for silly prices since they were discontinued - that is a good enough reason to rerelease them even if cheaper and/or better looking alternatives exist.

I think the prices are reasonable apart from Arcane Ruins which has doubled in price since its last appearance.

I think another reason they are popular is because they aren't ruins. GW does a LOT of ruins. Ruins are cool but sometimes you just want something that isn't a ruin to fight over.

 Overread wrote:
I think another reason they are popular is because they aren't ruins. GW does a LOT of ruins. Ruins are cool but sometimes you just want something that isn't a ruin to fight over.

I absolutely agree with this. GW's other fantasy terrain recently has been lots and lots of ruined walls, some open temple structures that don't really do much to block line of sight, and the industrial stuff is normally gangways and a handful (thinking the fronteris colony style set) of buildings that are still mostly 'go underground'. Picked this the manor to go with my Brettonian army and castle (yes I know it is Empire based, but I'll figure that out) because it's going to be faster to do that then to build something out of scratch. Excited to see them bringing this back. In fact, i wish for more (new) terrain that is both intact and fantastical.

jullevi wrote:

Cyel wrote:
These terain pieces were pretty cool when released, agreed.

Now, in the age of 3D printing they are obsolete as far as my needs are concerned.

Maybe, just maybe, if they are really cheap, but I doubt it.

. Fortified Manor and Arcane Ruins have been pretty sought after and sold for silly prices since they were discontinued - that is a good enough reason to rerelease them even if cheaper and/or better looking alternatives exist.

That was my point really. As cheaper and/or better looking alternatives exist it is pretty irrational to consider buying these as they are obsolete. Unless you go into those irrational purchasing behaviours like brand loyalty etc.

You can go watch Devs & Dice on Youtube and learn to make some really awesome Warhammer buildings if that's all you want. Buying these terrain sets is definitely about being able to set out the real thing, the official model. Getting all the best greeblies to detail your buildings by the company that makes Warhammer.

for the Arcane Ruins and the individual sets, yes, for the Manor at 90€, that set is a no-brainer for plastic models

Cyel wrote:

jullevi wrote:

Cyel wrote:
These terain pieces were pretty cool when released, agreed.

Now, in the age of 3D printing they are obsolete as far as my needs are concerned.

Maybe, just maybe, if they are really cheap, but I doubt it.

. Fortified Manor and Arcane Ruins have been pretty sought after and sold for silly prices since they were discontinued - that is a good enough reason to rerelease them even if cheaper and/or better looking alternatives exist.

That was my point really. As cheaper and/or better looking alternatives exist it is pretty irrational to consider buying these as they are obsolete. Unless you go into those irrational purchasing behaviours like brand loyalty etc.

How the hell can generic battlefield terrain be obsolete?

My problem with the terrain is that they are so Empire specific and it will take some time to remove all the Empire insignia. That's just not worth it for me. Would like some more generic warhammer terrain.

 Just Tony wrote:

Cyel wrote:

jullevi wrote:

Cyel wrote:
These terain pieces were pretty cool when released, agreed.

Now, in the age of 3D printing they are obsolete as far as my needs are concerned.

Maybe, just maybe, if they are really cheap, but I doubt it.

. Fortified Manor and Arcane Ruins have been pretty sought after and sold for silly prices since they were discontinued - that is a good enough reason to rerelease them even if cheaper and/or better looking alternatives exist.

That was my point really. As cheaper and/or better looking alternatives exist it is pretty irrational to consider buying these as they are obsolete. Unless you go into those irrational purchasing behaviours like brand loyalty etc.

How the hell can generic battlefield terrain be obsolete?

Some people are just that dead set on hating everything GW does.

JWh85 wrote:
Would like some more generic warhammer terrain.

Generic is always good but I would like to see some Bretonnian themed too.

 Shadow Walker wrote:

JWh85 wrote:
Would like some more generic warhammer terrain.

Generic is always good but I would like to see some Bretonnian themed too.

That would be great! I've been using the QP3D defense tower, which i think looks great for a Bretonnia tower, and it's just as expensive as the Empire watchtower.

JWh85 wrote:


That would be great! I've been using the QP3D defense tower,

This one? https://qp3dwargames.co.uk/products/battle-tower

 Shadow Walker wrote:

JWh85 wrote:


That would be great! I've been using the QP3D defense tower,

This one? https://qp3dwargames.co.uk/products/battle-tower

https://qp3dwargames.co.uk/products/defense-tower

This one! Really fits the more medieval aspects of Bretonnia while still having some fantasy elements.

JWh85 wrote:

https://qp3dwargames.co.uk/products/defense-tower

This one! Really fits the more medieval aspects of Bretonnia while still having some fantasy elements.

Agreed. Hopefully something like this will come in the future if TOW will survive more than 3 years.

That Battle Tower makes me think more of Gondor than Reikland.

 Dysartes wrote:
That Battle Tower makes me think more of Gondor than Reikland.

I think that that was what that line was designed for. The defense tower on the other hand is great for warhammer. They have some great terrain in general.

I don't see the Empire themed terrain is generic, though you can leave the Sigmar stuff off, it is still early modern human fantasy themed

for Bretonnia, this one is almost perfect
https://www.renedra.co.uk/product-category/castles-towers/

 kodos wrote:


for Bretonnia, this one is almost perfect
https://www.renedra.co.uk/product-category/buildings/castle-buildings/

Spoiler:

I do not recommend the cottage, parts does not fit properly and will leave you with big gaps.

which fit the Bretonnia peasant theme

 kodos wrote:
which fit the Bretonnia peasant theme

I stand corrected then

JWh85 wrote:
That would be great! I've been using the QP3D defense tower, which i think looks great for a Bretonnia tower, and it's just as expensive as the Empire watchtower.

Immah stop you right there, because we need more awareness on this gak.

You're not using the QP3D tower, that's like saying you're using Tafelridder Knights when you bought some GW Bretonnians from tafelridder.nl

You're using Iain Lovecraft's Defense Tower, from his The Frost line, printed under license by QP3D

Thanks for coming to my ted talk

 lord_blackfang wrote:

JWh85 wrote:
That would be great! I've been using the QP3D defense tower, which i think looks great for a Bretonnia tower, and it's just as expensive as the Empire watchtower.

Immah stop you right there, because we need more awareness on this gak.

You're not using the QP3D tower, that's like saying you're using Tafelridder Knights when you bought some GW Bretonnians from tafelridder.nl

You're using Iain Lovecraft's Defense Tower, from his The Frost line, printed under license by QP3D

Thanks for coming to my ted talk

You are quite right sir! I too stand corrected! As a dutchman love the example.

The buildings are great though and Iain is a fine designer.

While we are on this subject, the cottage from Renedra was actually designed by Michael Perry.

The 3D printing situation really HAS lead to some weirdness around creator credit, but so has the gen-AI and GW's no-credits policy.

That aside though, I'm actually kind of surprised that prices didn't shoot up incredibly for these compared to the last time. Yeah, they're waaaaaay expensive if you can get 3D printed terrain instead, and yeah, they're not for me, but for people who really do want the branded thing they are much cheaper than I was expecting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The 3D printing situation really HAS lead to some weirdness around creator credit, but so has the gen-AI and GW's no-credits policy.

That aside though, I'm actually kind of surprised that prices didn't shoot up incredibly for these compared to the last time. Yeah, they're waaaaaay expensive if you can get 3D printed terrain instead, and yeah, they're not for me, but for people who really do want the branded thing they are much cheaper than I was expecting.

Ugh

It just occurred to me that we didn’t get a chaos war mammoth re-release

Though I dread to think how much it would cost now

I was going to get the Arcane Ruins until I saw the price. I was expecting something like 30€, double that price is a big NO for me.

I do wonder how it is possible that GW releases at the same time such kits, one with a great value (Fort. Manor) and another one with such a low value (Ruins)...

 GaroRobe wrote:
Ugh

It just occurred to me that we didn’t get a chaos war mammoth re-release

Though I dread to think how much it would cost now

A small (big) fortune.

I think Reaper was going to release a similar one...

SU-152 wrote:
I was going to get the Arcane Ruins until I saw the price. I was expecting something like 30€, double that price is a big NO for me.

I do wonder how it is possible that GW releases at the same time such kits, one with a great value (Fort. Manor) and another one with such a low value (Ruins)...

 GaroRobe wrote:
Ugh

It just occurred to me that we didn’t get a chaos war mammoth re-release

Though I dread to think how much it would cost now

A small (big) fortune.

I think Reaper was going to release a similar one...

Wait, where were the terrain kit prices posted? What'd I miss?

 Just Tony wrote:

Wait, where were the terrain kit prices posted? What'd I miss?

A few hours after the Sunday preview, as usual

To summarize, Manor price good, everything else bad

 GaroRobe wrote:
Ugh

It just occurred to me that we didn’t get a chaos war mammoth re-release

Though I dread to think how much it would cost now

There is a rumour that the Norsca are getting a plastic one after the main armies are released... (from the Square Based podcast).

Norsca....great another Chaos army I have to start when it gets released because I must have all of Chaos.

 Just Tony wrote:


How the hell can generic battlefield terrain be obsolete?

Obsolete might not be the best word, maybe 'not as necessary'. 10 years back your options were scratch building, buying from a handful of obscure terrain makers or GW's ready to go plastic sets which are just dripping in Warhammer iconography (by which I mean skulls).

Today Renedra is making plastic generic terrain, and there's any number of STL and 3d printing sites with stuff as generic or stylized as you'd like.

Which is not to cast shade on anyone who wants the GW kit, but just points out they don't corner the market like they used to.

Got an old grudge you need to settle? These classic kits will be available on a Made to Order basis soon – which is your favourite?

SU-152 wrote:


A small (big) fortune.

I think Reaper was going to release a similar one...

They already have. But you'll have to make your own howdah.

https://www.reapermini.com/search/mammoth/latest/77764

The original Grenedier model is also around.

https://www.mirliton.it/barbarian-war-mammoth-ba028?search=mammoth

https://www.mirliton.it/war-mammoth-mfqs001?search=mammoth

And Victrix has a war elephant.

https://www.victrixlimited.com/en-us/products/african-war-elephant?variant=32092819062883

Not mention any number of toy elephants, and the LotR mammoth.

I'm sure the Norsica Mammoth will be quite nice when it comes out in 2031 or whatever, but for now that should tide most mammoth lovers over.