Its awkward in that the two remaining arm weapons will require two separate plastic sprues at £15 each. Together with the resin Belicosa thats probably £45 for the three missing weapons.
If they were going this route then they should have gone for either the same two weapons on either of the reaver weapon sprues; Laser destructor & gatling, or Melta and volcano. This way a player wouldn't begrudge a single weapon sprue for the two missing weapons.
Also, the two arm weapons on the Warbringer sprue have updated sockets for magnets, which seemed to hint at an alternative weapon sprue.
To be honest this isn't a problem as any titanicus player will likely have reavers in their collection already. And if one doesn't savour the thought of purchasing a resin Belicosa, then maybe one can make an adaptor to mount a Warlord Belicosa instead?
I like what it does to the Warbringer's silhouette. Dunno why, but that looks more aggressive and balanced than the regular loadout.
More aggressive but less balanced. It's because 80% of the Belicosa is at or ahead of the mounting point pushing the gun level and forwards, while the quake cannon has the revolver assembly and rear block behind the mount so it tends to lift the barrel up.
Really weird, now that I think about it, that our last Engine Kill was a "did you know that Titans can be painted different colours" kind of article when they had this to show. Bizarre.
Marshal Loss wrote: Really weird, now that I think about it, that our last Engine Kill was a "did you know that Titans can be painted different colours" kind of article when they had this to show. Bizarre.
Feels like GW is planning their reveal scheudle really quite badly nowadays.
Maybe the Warbringer didn't sell enough to justify the tooling for a second variant in plastic? Realise it's only 1 sprue they need to do, but maybe that's why it's FW and not plastic. Just a thought.
With a glass half full, GW are spared the hassle of producing yet another plastic sprue and keeping an alternative kit in stock. This obviously allows them to put that effort to other uses, such as a new scout titan or a knight.
Wonder if it's just the gun, or if they've bothered to do the ammo racks as well.
It seems to have cables coming out the back of the gun, going somewhere. So in theory, yes? Could just be cover up bits for the ammo though.
Volcano cannon are laser weapon that drawn power directly from the reactor, it didn't use ammo, and theoretically can have unlimited amount of shot.
On the base Warbringer model, it has two ammo hoppers to feed the Quake Cannon. These include sculpted ammo. My comment was suggesting the cables may connect up to some form of blanking plate to cover up the ammo.
MarkNorfolk wrote: Yeah, the kit must come with some additional features beyond the barrel to either replace or turn the quake magazines into capacitors, or whatever.
I am a bit disappointed that the VC version is a resin conversion pack, but will swallow it and hope for plastic corrupted titans down the line.
40k scale version. I assume the same but scaled down for the AT release.
If it has the capacitor banks like that I’ll be able to magnetise the thing like the quake cannon, no problem. It had better include the turntable though; there’s no built-in way to magnetise the mount there and I’m pretty sure the guns are different widths anyway.
changemod wrote: Lack of an alt head is annoying. I’d rather not have two titans that are identical barring a top gun, honestly.
Luckily there are some decent third-party options out there. I'm using a Battlebling possessed head for my Warbringer. The loyalist one looks good too.
I see no issues with FW developing this other than the availability problems that come with FW. I'd like to pick up a VC for my Praesagius WB, but have no desire to buy another entire kit or wait for who knows how many months for the sprue to be released separately.
And *if* this saves them a plastics development 'slot' on the schedule and allows them to produce something else -- like an actual new Titan -- all the better.
MarkNorfolk wrote: Yeah, the kit must come with some additional features beyond the barrel to either replace or turn the quake magazines into capacitors, or whatever.
I am a bit disappointed that the VC version is a resin conversion pack, but will swallow it and hope for plastic corrupted titans down the line.
40k scale version. I assume the same but scaled down for the AT release.
The Belicosa Volcano Cannon looks like it has six pieces just for the gun, along with two cables and two capacitors. That makes ten without the platform.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have a replacement platform but the FW page doesn't show it and people on Facebook are posting screenshots of FW stating that the platform is not included. Take that as you will.
Breotan wrote: Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have a replacement platform but the FW page doesn't show it and people on Facebook are posting screenshots of FW stating that the platform is not included. Take that as you will.
That's a bummer... I really hate that it wasn't communicated properly beforehand that you would need a brand new kit in order to assemble it. :(
Waiting for fw site go go back up. Grabbing some other at and necromunda stuff alongside. Wish they had brought out the volkite weapons alongside this, made an event of it.
There seem to be a fair number of alternative turntables that can be 3D-printed and used, but we shouldn't have to do that just for the dubious pleasure of fightning with FW's resin...
The lack of turntable is ridiculous, this makes it the first weapon for AT that essentially requires you to go buy an entirely new titan. The central appeal of this game is the modular nature of the titans and weapons, it's like they didn't get the memo.
Chopstick wrote: Not really, you can magnetize the pack separately, assuming you didn't glue the ammo pack already.
That's the whole point, this thing is only useful to people who buy a new warbringer, anyone with one already built can't just conjure the turntable. They could 3d print one though I guess...
I now get the impression that the Warbringer was originally meant to have a second plastic sprue and released with a miss print of weapons cards, which wasn't a problem as the starter and old rule set contained the missing volcano card anyway.
And yet, somewhere along the line - due to covid, and production delays - they off loaded the Belicosa onto Forgeworld, whom graciously included a weapon card without realising that the Warbringer kit already has one, but have also overlooked the turntable component.
gorgon wrote: Well, they lost a sale here. To be fair, this is much more in line with how GW usually operates.
Maybe someday I'll pick up another Warbringer so I can field a Ruptura maniple. But that's not even my main legio, so.
Anyone know of some third-party options?
Maybe keep an eye on a 3D printing service called Battle Bling, incase they do. They have printed stock of their items for very reasonable prices and depending on location, free p&p. For another example, check THIS out....
Chopstick wrote: Unlikely, most extra weapon are resin and the uber huge Warmaster probably took all the plastic production slot for everything else AT-related.
While it still feels like a change of plan, there is merit in what you say.
The Warbringer terminal is very specific in what weapons it can take, and so while it has been released in a very awkward way, the Belicosa is the only "extra" weapon in this case. The missing reaver weapons are technically available right now, and would be about £11 each in resin compared to one of the reaver sprues at £15, which is packed with many other components that can be shared with other warbringers and reavers. Also, I wonder if a reaver head would make a good alternative for a Warbringer...
Also, from the videos and images I have seen online, the carapace weapon doesn't seem to be designed with magnets in mind. Its worth pointing out that the arm weapons are clearly designed for doing so, so why not provide a clear magnet connection for the carapace while they are at it? Therefore it seems that this Belicosa may have been designed to be a permanant fixture on a Warbringer...
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gorgon wrote: Yeah, I used their alt head on my Warbringer.
I'm sure there will be 3D printed platforms coming soon from various parties. Still doesn't make me want to rush to buy the FW cannon piece, mind you.
Of course, they may even offer their own alternative.
I was hoping to buy one. But no turntable, no sale.....I've glued my Quake to the mount. I was expecting another plastic sprue with alternative weapons, seeing all the warbringer weapons, including the turn table were on the same sprue.
gorgon wrote: Well, they lost a sale here. To be fair, this is much more in line with how GW usually operates.
Maybe someday I'll pick up another Warbringer so I can field a Ruptura maniple. But that's not even my main legio, so.
Anyone know of some third-party options?
This one is great, sadly it's out of stock for obvious reasons but well worth it. The nice part is you can just swap it out with the quake cannon and still leave the quake shells in the back if you want.
gorgon wrote: Well, they lost a sale here. To be fair, this is much more in line with how GW usually operates.
Maybe someday I'll pick up another Warbringer so I can field a Ruptura maniple. But that's not even my main legio, so.
Anyone know of some third-party options?
This one is great, sadly it's out of stock for obvious reasons but well worth it. The nice part is you can just swap it out with the quake cannon and still leave the quake shells in the back if you want.
Its no surprise seeing as they did the same thing for the 28mm scaled Warbringer. If you want the 28mm Belicosa Volcano cannon you have to buy a whole $1260 USD titan. That's utterly ridiculous when they sell every other weapon for every other titan class separately (including Warlord Belicosa Cannons ).
This isn't an oversight by any means, anyone that may claim that they simply "forgot" to include the turntable are delusional, GW/FW know damn well what they're doing.
Its actually pretty funny in a messed up way if you think about it lol. Like they're that petty and trashy as a company they need to carry over that same tactic to a scaled down model, because why not?
At the end of the day its unacceptable, and we as consumers should expect more and act on that expectation by not buying any of these bait bits.
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Its no surprise seeing as they did the same thing for the 28mm scaled Warbringer. If you want the 28mm Belicosa Volcano cannon you have to buy a whole $1260 USD titan. That's utterly ridiculous when they sell every other weapon for every other titan class separately (including Warlord Belicosa Cannons ).
This isn't an oversight by any means, anyone that may claim that they simply "forgot" to include the turntable are delusional, GW/FW know damn well what they're doing.
Its actually pretty funny in a messed up way if you think about it lol. Like they're that petty and trashy as a company they need to carry over that same tactic to a scaled down model, because why not?
At the end of the day its unacceptable, and we as consumers should expect more and act on that expectation by not buying any of these bait bits.
Yeah, the 28mm version not being available separately is really odd, the Quake cannon even comes in its own box with a separate instruction sheet and the ammo hoppers have pre made holes for magnetisation (I assume the Belicosa cannon is the same) so it's clearly been designed to be a separate kit, they just don't sell it that way. Would have thought it would be a decent seller on its own as I can imagine a lot of Warbringer owners would buy one, but I can't imagine many people would buy a second Warbringer to get it.
Although I wonder if the Warbringer hasn't sold as well as expected, I got mine on release day and it's numbered somewhere around 225, so seems like they had a lot cast up ready, but I believe that according to the Titan owners club the highest number released is only about 300 and it's been out a couple of years now.
Nurglitch wrote: I'd imagine the missing part is easily printed.
But people wishing to buy bits from Forgeworld are probably people who can't print bits at home.
I can't print bits at home. Usually I print through places like Shapeways, or I pay a local guy with a printer to do it. Doing it locally is much less expensive.
Battlebling has suddenly become the best friend to Titanicus players...
I don't know if they are reading what we post here on Dakka, but I'd go crazy if they printed alternative weapons and parts for the Knights and Warhounds. A melee weapon for the Warhound would be incredible.
For now it would be the alternative hound bodies and the fabulous selection of reaver parts, for a first order. No matter what, the reaver blast cannon is a must buy...
SamusDrake wrote: I don't know if they are reading what we post here on Dakka, but I'd go crazy if they printed alternative weapons and parts for the Knights and Warhounds. A melee weapon for the Warhound would be incredible.
They have a number of alternate weapons, mostly for Reavers and Warlords. I suggest you go to their store and check out their selection.
SamusDrake wrote: I don't know if they are reading what we post here on Dakka, but I'd go crazy if they printed alternative weapons and parts for the Knights and Warhounds. A melee weapon for the Warhound would be incredible.
They have a number of alternate weapons, mostly for Reavers and Warlords. I suggest you go to their store and check out their selection.
I too have fallen under the Battlebling spell. The Custodian Head for my Warmaster to be was too good to resist. Threw in some extra plasma weapons for my Warlords and Reaver, and the 'kind of goofy but in a good way' fire control tower.
Crablezworth wrote: If two guys and a few designers can be this industrious fw has no excuse honestly.
My guess is it's a question of scale - FW have to get corporate approval to release their products and produce enough to meet demand (I'm aware of the irony here). A couple of guys in a garage can do what they want when they want but often have trouble scaling up (look at Hasslefree, for example).
You' re expecting too much from FW and SG team, they're so lazy they couldn't even give the atrapos knight a proper pose and open cannon like the resin 28mm version, even though they are resin production and aren't limited by sprue space.
Chopstick wrote: You' re expecting too much from FW and SG team, they're so lazy they couldn't even give the atrapos knight a proper pose and open cannon like the resin 28mm version, even though they are resin production and aren't limited by sprue space.
Giving the Graviton Singularity Cannon an "open" appearance wouldn't work in resin due to the how slight the pieces would be. I'm reminded of when they did the Eldar Firestorm for the original Aeronautica, with three tiny barrels that would break at a strong breath. Doing what they did was the right call this time round.
Crablezworth wrote: If two guys and a few designers can be this industrious fw has no excuse honestly.
My guess is it's a question of scale - FW have to get corporate approval to release their products and produce enough to meet demand (I'm aware of the irony here). A couple of guys in a garage can do what they want when they want but often have trouble scaling up (look at Hasslefree, for example).
I don't think they need to scale up much, the game only has a limited following, but for a company their size they can do well given how quickly they're able to innovate and release. Battle bling already have weapon arms for the warmaster for sale and there aren't even rules yet
Crablezworth wrote: If two guys and a few designers can be this industrious fw has no excuse honestly.
My guess is it's a question of scale - FW have to get corporate approval to release their products and produce enough to meet demand (I'm aware of the irony here). A couple of guys in a garage can do what they want when they want but often have trouble scaling up (look at Hasslefree, for example).
Yeah, they have no other work, no overhead, no need to plan to produce thousands of bits at once, their job is vastly simpler. Especially seeing GW does all the design work for them and they have zero need for creative types, they can make do with merely capable of slightly rearranging 3D shapes without any need for innovation or concept work.
I like how their bits look but let's not pretend they did anything special here, titan weapons are among simplest possible things to do among all GW games and model ranges...
I'd disagree. Making printable 3D objects is still a rare and surprisingly expensive skill to hire and acquire, even if you're copying stuff. An artist I hire for work would be vastly out of my price range for objects that complex
Crablezworth wrote: If two guys and a few designers can be this industrious fw has no excuse honestly.
My guess is it's a question of scale - FW have to get corporate approval to release their products and produce enough to meet demand (I'm aware of the irony here). A couple of guys in a garage can do what they want when they want but often have trouble scaling up (look at Hasslefree, for example).
Yeah, they have no other work, no overhead, no need to plan to produce thousands of bits at once, their job is vastly simpler. Especially seeing GW does all the design work for them and they have zero need for creative types, they can make do with merely capable of slightly rearranging 3D shapes without any need for innovation or concept work.
I like how their bits look but let's not pretend they did anything special here, titan weapons are among simplest possible things to do among all GW games and model ranges...
Plenty of unique offerings, pretending it's all carbon copy of things fw doesn't even sell is exactly as empty as it looks. They already offer the missing mount fw decided not to sell, how they choose to leave money on the table is of not interest to the end buyer. Both vanguard and battlebling offer better solutions.
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Nurglitch wrote: I'd disagree. Making printable 3D objects is still a rare and surprisingly expensive skill to hire and acquire, even if you're copying stuff. An artist I hire for work would be vastly out of my price range for objects that complex
It certainly requires skill to make nice models without much failure rate.
But there's also the issue that free files of this weapon in its entirety are and were available months ago.
Crablezworth wrote: If two guys and a few designers can be this industrious fw has no excuse honestly.
My guess is it's a question of scale - FW have to get corporate approval to release their products and produce enough to meet demand (I'm aware of the irony here). A couple of guys in a garage can do what they want when they want but often have trouble scaling up (look at Hasslefree, for example).
Yeah, they have no other work, no overhead, no need to plan to produce thousands of bits at once, their job is vastly simpler. Especially seeing GW does all the design work for them and they have zero need for creative types, they can make do with merely capable of slightly rearranging 3D shapes without any need for innovation or concept work.
I like how their bits look but let's not pretend they did anything special here, titan weapons are among simplest possible things to do among all GW games and model ranges...
Plenty of unique offerings, pretending it's all carbon copy of things fw doesn't even sell is exactly as empty as it looks. They already offer the missing mount fw decided not to sell, how they choose to leave money on the table is of not interest to the end buyer. Both vanguard and battlebling offer better solutions.
I think it's pretty obvious Forgeworld decided to NOT include the missing mount to get people to buy another Titan if they want a diffrent carapace gun, no matter how dumb of an idea that was.
Crablezworth wrote: But there's also the issue that free files of this weapon in its entirety are and were available months ago.
Pardon me, I'm not very smart; how is that an issue?
I think he is trying to point out that though you and I may not have the skills, there are plenty of people who do have these skills and make better quality designs and post them for FREE well before the FW models are available.
Crablezworth wrote: If two guys and a few designers can be this industrious fw has no excuse honestly.
My guess is it's a question of scale - FW have to get corporate approval to release their products and produce enough to meet demand (I'm aware of the irony here). A couple of guys in a garage can do what they want when they want but often have trouble scaling up (look at Hasslefree, for example).
Yeah, they have no other work, no overhead, no need to plan to produce thousands of bits at once, their job is vastly simpler. Especially seeing GW does all the design work for them and they have zero need for creative types, they can make do with merely capable of slightly rearranging 3D shapes without any need for innovation or concept work.
I like how their bits look but let's not pretend they did anything special here, titan weapons are among simplest possible things to do among all GW games and model ranges...
Since its so simple, it really speaks to the incompetence of GW when they cant even do it right. Or in this case, deliberately choose not to.
Crablezworth wrote: If two guys and a few designers can be this industrious fw has no excuse honestly.
My guess is it's a question of scale - FW have to get corporate approval to release their products and produce enough to meet demand (I'm aware of the irony here). A couple of guys in a garage can do what they want when they want but often have trouble scaling up (look at Hasslefree, for example).
Yeah, they have no other work, no overhead, no need to plan to produce thousands of bits at once, their job is vastly simpler. Especially seeing GW does all the design work for them and they have zero need for creative types, they can make do with merely capable of slightly rearranging 3D shapes without any need for innovation or concept work.
I like how their bits look but let's not pretend they did anything special here, titan weapons are among simplest possible things to do among all GW games and model ranges...
Since its so simple, it really speaks to the incompetence of GW when they cant even do it right. Or in this case, deliberately choose not to.
Let's not give them the benefit of thinking it might've been incompetence, they chose not to include them so you have to buy a whole new Titan to get a mount for this gun.
Theophony wrote: I think he is trying to point out that though you and I may not have the skills, there are plenty of people who do have these skills and make better quality designs and post them for FREE well before the FW models are available.
Yes, there are plenty of people with these skills that aren't trying to make a buck. Having to fit stuff into a conventional production schedule is an incredible constraint. Of course, there's also the question of why GW should spent time and money making something when their audience will go around the corner and get something a few bucks cheaper, or free, but I've gotten a pretty strong impression of GW brand loyalty over the years. I mean, we know GW throws money at whatever we throw money at, hence all the Space Marines. Maybe the issue is that hobbyists are sabotaging official support by not supporting GW?
Theophony wrote: I think he is trying to point out that though you and I may not have the skills, there are plenty of people who do have these skills and make better quality designs and post them for FREE well before the FW models are available.
Yes, there are plenty of people with these skills that aren't trying to make a buck. Having to fit stuff into a conventional production schedule is an incredible constraint. Of course, there's also the question of why GW should spent time and money making something when their audience will go around the corner and get something a few bucks cheaper, or free, but I've gotten a pretty strong impression of GW brand loyalty over the years. I mean, we know GW throws money at whatever we throw money at, hence all the Space Marines. Maybe the issue is that hobbyists are sabotaging official support by not supporting GW?
God, i'd love if my lack of support of GW would actually do enough damage to them to count as "sabotage", maybe they'd get off their arse and actually try to sometimes do something nice for once.
I think he is trying to point out that though you and I may not have the skills, there are plenty of people who do have these skills and make better quality designs and post them for FREE well before the FW models are available.
I don't even have the skills, asked a friend with a printer and the print skills and was fortunate to find a file on thingiverse
It's a nice design too, the power thingies are built into the back of the gun itself so I can just keep the quake shell hoppers on the back.
Theophony wrote: I think he is trying to point out that though you and I may not have the skills, there are plenty of people who do have these skills and make better quality designs and post them for FREE well before the FW models are available.
Yes, there are plenty of people with these skills that aren't trying to make a buck. Having to fit stuff into a conventional production schedule is an incredible constraint. Of course, there's also the question of why GW should spent time and money making something when their audience will go around the corner and get something a few bucks cheaper, or free, but I've gotten a pretty strong impression of GW brand loyalty over the years. I mean, we know GW throws money at whatever we throw money at, hence all the Space Marines. Maybe the issue is that hobbyists are sabotaging official support by not supporting GW?
Plenty of support for gw, new starter, all the titans, the new giant titan, all things players have had to buy, how gw somehow loses out when battlebling sells a warmaster arm or any other accessory for the plastic gw thing you already purchased from gw is beyond me. Forge world being inept on their side of things is separate all together. These third party's will either serve to make them more honest or simply highlight their failures by eating their lunch every time they make a mistake or take way too long to release something.
The new warbringer gun is a deviation from the other weaponry fw has put out and we all noticed, some even to their financial gain. It's also impossible to argue battlebling selling something to go with fw's latest release is bad, it's bad only for gw in that someone may not be forced to buy a second warbringer they may never have intended to own in the first place.
It's a nice design too, the power thingies are built into the back of the gun itself so I can just keep the quake shell hoppers on the back.
That doesn't sound like a nice design, that sounds like they've pretty much just directly copied the Warlord arm weapon rather than redesigning it, and you're now left with pointless ammo hoppers on the back of the titan.
FW not supplying the base is a stupid decision though, thought they might have learnt over the backlash when they weren't originally going to release the weapon sprues for the earlier titans separately. Also, the fact that it includes the unnecessary card for the weapon seems a bit daft, and maybe reinforces the theory that the Warbringer was meant to include the card for the arm mounted Volcano cannon, rather than the carapace mounted one (so it actually included the cards for the weapons it came with) but that no one at GW has really picked up that they messed that up.
It's a nice design too, the power thingies are built into the back of the gun itself so I can just keep the quake shell hoppers on the back.
That doesn't sound like a nice design, that sounds like they've pretty much just directly copied the Warlord arm weapon rather than redesigning it, and you're now left with pointless ammo hoppers on the back of the titan.
I guess I meant nice in the sense my hand wasn't forced to buy 110$ model I don't want or need to be able to swap a single weapon. You know, nice. Ya barely notice the ammo hoppers at the back either way. I just had no intent on magnetizing those.
It's a nice design too, the power thingies are built into the back of the gun itself so I can just keep the quake shell hoppers on the back.
FW not supplying the base is a stupid decision though, thought they might have learnt over the backlash when they weren't originally going to release the weapon sprues for the earlier titans separately. Also, the fact that it includes the unnecessary card for the weapon seems a bit daft, and maybe reinforces the theory that the Warbringer was meant to include the card for the arm mounted Volcano cannon, rather than the carapace mounted one (so it actually included the cards for the weapons it came with) but that no one at GW has really picked up that they messed that up.
You get the feeling that very few people there and at fw play the game. My entire sales pitch for the game to potential players is it's handful of models unlike the bigger army based games and they're modular, if fw wants to change the modular part mid stream for a quick buck it makes that sale pitch harder.
I think the volcano cannon was designed to be glued and locked in place. The conduits coming off the gun look too fragile to be swapped around and likely to be broken and lost. An easy fix for the conduits might be to instead of gluing them to the gun to use a dry fit pin to hold them or run a piece of wire along the length of the conduits to reinforce them.
This would be like fw releasing a new carapace weapon for the warmaster that requires bits from the warmaster, I specifically didn't glue my missile launcher down to future proof it but I'm not exactly going to buy another just to get a different carapace weapon,
Ya, designer's had it up since march 1st of last year I think. Maybe one day we'll find out if the change in the new book to 90 degrees was indeed a mistake
"Sir, should we perhaps take the failure of the volcano cannon release as some kind of sign that we should perhaps change our ways, maybe even hire someone on staff that plays the game"
"nonsense, we need infringement assistans!"
I'm just hoping they fix the volkites rules before release, maybe they'll be too busy scanning the internet for people doing a better job than them for free.
"Should we try to make actual quality products that are not hideously overpriced and maybe sometimes proofread something?"
"Nonsense, it's much cheaper and simpler to hire people to get rid off any 3rd party things you can get from the internet, so nobody has any proof how easy it is to beat us at our own game."
“We’ve spent a helluva long time creating this thing. We need someone savvy and sharp who can prevent sad gits trying to profit off our hard work whilst doing absolutely bugger all of their own work”
“We’ve spent a helluva long time creating this thing. We need someone savvy and sharp who can prevent sad gits trying to profit off our hard work whilst doing absolutely bugger all of their own work”
It takes an amazing amount of work to design, produce, and deliver the products that GW makes. The sculpting of the plastic/resin widgets is the tip of the production iceberg.
Nurglitch wrote: It takes an amazing amount of work to design, produce, and deliver the products that GW makes. The sculpting of the plastic/resin widgets is the tip of the production iceberg.
Now imagine combining that hard work with actual product knowledge of their own game, this is the core of the problem, if fw knows they're going to be slower than the others why not at least be better? Battle bling fixed a problem fw could have simply not created and I don't think anyone who designs a nice circle owes royalties to people who never saw it as a useful thing to create to begin with. If you don't call your cool unique weapon design a volkite, im not sure gw has much grounds to do anything,
Well 3D printing will always be faster than GW - heck some designers don't even presupport and print; they put together the stl and throw it out into the world.
A good many are running on 1 month production cycles for patreon and some do show that there are issues with quality control with such an insanely fast turn around (keeping in mind these are small one person or a few people teams - not big companies with separate staff in each duty).
I'm not surprised at GW doing this and I'd wager that at some point Hollywood and Video games will also hit the 3D STL market as well - there's a good few fan-arts being sold through patreons and the like all around at present. GW is just faster because this is their entire core market; whilst for those others they are key markets for merchandise, but not their bread and butter markets.
Overread wrote: I'm not surprised at GW doing this and I'd wager that at some point Hollywood and Video games will also hit the 3D STL market as well - there's a good few fan-arts being sold through patreons and the like all around at present. GW is just faster because this is their entire core market; whilst for those others they are key markets for merchandise, but not their bread and butter markets.
The problem is once they're out there, they stay out there. A few years ago someone hacked into Piranha Games and stole the 3D models from MechWarrior Online, then turned them into STLs - they're still playing whack-a-mole with eBay / etsy / shapeways / etc. to get them taken down.
Oh true and its even harder with webstores based in or on servers in places like China where you can't even use DMCA and other legal powers on the website host to take things down.
Heck I know there's a few such stores pressuring the 3D designers of STLs as well. Every so often you might catch a facebook post offering "thousands of STLs for £30" and such. Or come across web stores selling masses of print models that they don't have merchant rights for or the stls themselves. Heck I've not even gone out of my way to look for such things and I've come across a few (and reported them when I did). Several were already known about by the original copyright holders; its just a nightmare for them to take them down.
This position probably has a lot more to do with the absolute fan animation C&D apocalypse that's going on right now to make room for Wardisney+ than it is with bootleg STLs.
There's currently only one official arm weapon for the warmaster titan, a third party, battle bling, offers some fantastic weapon arms for the warmaster. As there are only rules for one weapon which is the one the warmaster currently comes armed with on both arms, it seems hard to believe that this money being made is somehow at the expense of gw, which would only really make sense if battle bling sold counterfeit warmasters, which they most certainly don't. So these alternative weapon arms for the warmaster are like an after market kit for a honda civic, they also offer a really great unique alternative head. These are things we may eventually see from forge world, but just like with adorning a titan's bases with wonderful vanguard miniatures, they're going to have to tread carefully, there's plenty of third party's making great things for titanicus players to add to their bases or use as battlefield assets or alternative weapons to make their robots more unique. These are all things in gw and fw's ability to do as well, it just would look bad throwing around lawyers at individuals and companies that make the hobby better. If it's just cease and desist letters to third party stl hosting sites then fine but there are plenty of people whose offerings are remixed or different enough and who are smart enough to name them accordngly that gw really can't touch and shouldn't try to.
Who wouldn't want that amazing looking rotor cannon arm for their warmaster? Even if there aren't any rule yet for alternate weapon arms,
It's also a very predictable design space, practically labelled 'Warmaster Gatling Blaster' implied by the existence of the Warmaster. Weapons are 'plug-and-play' and have various scales of profile within broad types (volcano cannons, plasma boominators). It's a really good idea for a game.
Overread wrote: I'm not surprised at GW doing this and I'd wager that at some point Hollywood and Video games will also hit the 3D STL market as well - there's a good few fan-arts being sold through patreons and the like all around at present. GW is just faster because this is their entire core market; whilst for those others they are key markets for merchandise, but not their bread and butter markets.
The problem is once they're out there, they stay out there. A few years ago someone hacked into Piranha Games and stole the 3D models from MechWarrior Online, then turned them into STLs - they're still playing whack-a-mole with eBay / etsy / shapeways / etc. to get them taken down.
I guess by that you mean "they extracted the models from the game's intallation folder using off-the-shelf CryEngine conversion programs", and that PGI actually sorta gave permission to use them but not really, as long as it was not for profit, right?
Also, the ones doing the whack a mole thing ain't PGI, mainly on the grounds that they don't even have rights to produce physical models.
Remember, a Gatling Blaster basically is 6 Leman Russ battle cannons. A Macro Gatling Blaster is a larger version of that. They are only "weak" in comparison to plasma weapons and the like, but then their purpose is different.
Saying macro gatling is weak is just daft from both lore and gameplay perspective. It isn't. On tabletop it's a great (and cheap) multitool against shields and injured titans due to accuracy and Ordinance, in lore it's like walking around with a battery of howitzers.
Eumerin wrote: Wow. The rotary cannon has rotary cannons. If played "correctly", that would be an *insane* number of extremely weak shots.
Nope, just the barrel style.
How disappointing.
And how disappointing that GW and/or FW haven't yet made a rotary cannon made of rotary cannons. That seems as if it would be something suitably over the top!
Eumerin wrote: And how disappointing that GW and/or FW haven't yet made a rotary cannon made of rotary cannons. That seems as if it would be something suitably over the top!
I'm wondering if they'll come with weapon cards. Really hoping the rules have somehow changed from the ones they previewed, beam is cool for the warlord one but the other two need something, maybe they'll make voidbraker better somehow.
Crablezworth wrote: I'm wondering if they'll come with weapon cards. Really hoping the rules have somehow changed from the ones they previewed, beam is cool for the warlord one but the other two need something, maybe they'll make voidbraker better somehow.
Iracundus wrote: Where did the rules for volkite weapons appear? I seem to have missed them.
This article has some details on the weapon rules but doesn't show the whole card. I'm hoping they missed some key detail, such as the Rapid or Shieldbreaker trait as what we've seen is pretty underwhelming.
I'd assume the weapons come with a card each, unless they're planning on sneaking out the traitor legions book pretty damn quickly.
Volkite is indeed very underwhelming, but I'd consider picking one up just to have it.
That is, if everything else I wanted to fill out my order wasn't coming up "SOLD OUT no longer available". I can wait, but FW really needs to fix the messaging there, assuming they intend to bring all that stuff back. It's just going to drive people to OTHER sources, and I can't even blame those people if they think it's gone forever.
gorgon wrote: Volkite is indeed very underwhelming, but I'd consider picking one up just to have it.
That is, if everything else I wanted to fill out my order wasn't coming up "SOLD OUT no longer available". I can wait, but FW really needs to fix the messaging there, assuming they intend to bring all that stuff back. It's just going to drive people to OTHER sources, and I can't even blame those people if they think it's gone forever.
100% agree, there's fear of missing out and there's complete demoralization and disaffection with a company, just them including the cards is good enough in my eyes to show they're at least thinking or possibly even listening to us and thinking, but then the supply is terrible. No point not going to other sources if fw doesn't even want to meet the demand. The battle bling stuff looks great.
gorgon wrote: Volkite is indeed very underwhelming, but I'd consider picking one up just to have it.
That is, if everything else I wanted to fill out my order wasn't coming up "SOLD OUT no longer available". I can wait, but FW really needs to fix the messaging there, assuming they intend to bring all that stuff back. It's just going to drive people to OTHER sources, and I can't even blame those people if they think it's gone forever.
100% agree, there's fear of missing out and there's complete demoralization and disaffection with a company, just them including the cards is good enough in my eyes to show they're at least thinking or possibly even listening to us and thinking, but then the supply is terrible. No point not going to other sources if fw doesn't even want to meet the demand. The battle bling stuff looks great.
Agreed. I contacted Forge World about the extent of the weapons options that were all 'Sold Out- No Longer Available', because I was kind of surprised that stuff that has been out 1-2 years is simply no longer going to be sold. The rep told me, via email, not to worry, as those weapons options were being repackaged and would be offered for sale again in a different listing fairly soon. Assuming that's true, that's good news (maybe they are going to be selling the smaller options only as a set, or something).
However, why wouldn't you communicate that to your customers? What reason would you have to tell customers that the weapons options were simply discontinued, when you were actually planning on just releasing them in another packaging? Why only tell people who email you about it what is going on? Would n't it be better to just tell people that the weapons will be returning in some format soon?
Having chatted in Warhammer world store, the only things that have gone gone are the battle boards. Everything else is due back in stock at some point.
Its either a trickle of a handful at a time or in the case of the Psi Titan, waiting for a stock of Warlords to be available.
I missed a small batch of Psi at WW by a couple of days
Agreed. I contacted Forge World about the extent of the weapons options that were all 'Sold Out- No Longer Available', because I was kind of surprised that stuff that has been out 1-2 years is simply no longer going to be sold. The rep told me, via email, not to worry, as those weapons options were being repackaged and would be offered for sale again in a different listing fairly soon. Assuming that's true, that's good news (maybe they are going to be selling the smaller options only as a set, or something).
I wonder if they're going to start selling all of the resin FW weapons with their weapon card, then repackage the plastic titans to have the terminal / card pack that we saw in the new maniple box. That way they can discontinue all the separate weapon card packs, which are rapidly becoming obsolete anyway as new options are released.
It's not just repackaging, there's also an error on the GW/FW webstore which misslists at times. It's likely been there for a while, but we never really spotted it because its not until this last year that things have sold out so regularly and so fast.
They posted another "article" about them, I'm not even going to bother linking it. Still no real rules preview just a couple paragraphs of fluff talking about their rarity, maybe that's a joke at their low supply. 2 weeks of pre order even though they're already gone and released on the 18th, super. Maybe sometime between now and then they'll respect my intelligence enough to inform me what the thing they want to sell but have no stock to sell me actually does in game.
Crablezworth wrote: They posted another "article" about them, I'm not even going to bother linking it. Still no real rules preview just a couple paragraphs of fluff talking about their rarity, maybe that's a joke at their low supply. 2 weeks of pre order even though they're already gone and released on the 18th, super. Maybe sometime between now and then they'll respect my intelligence enough to inform me what the thing they want to sell but have no stock to sell me actually does in game.
Sometimes i wonder what the point of a 2-weeks long preorder is, if everything just sells out within a day or a few.
Crablezworth wrote: They posted another "article" about them, I'm not even going to bother linking it. Still no real rules preview just a couple paragraphs of fluff talking about their rarity, maybe that's a joke at their low supply. 2 weeks of pre order even though they're already gone and released on the 18th, super. Maybe sometime between now and then they'll respect my intelligence enough to inform me what the thing they want to sell but have no stock to sell me actually does in game.
Sometimes i wonder what the point of a 2-weeks long preorder is, if everything just sells out within a day or a few.
It's certainly strange in a world with 3d resin printers only limited by time and resin. Really glad they're including the cards, maybe they'll make more some day. +
Strength 5 is about right in comparison to HH,7th ed rule and similar weapon. The bigger volkite weapons have haywire rule, which all titans have immunity to.
Chopstick wrote: Strength 5 is about right in comparison to HH,7th ed rule and similar weapon. The bigger volkite weapons have haywire rule, which all titans have immunity to.
These are bigger than the Carronade from the Glaive and that also had the Beam rule. Shame the Eradicator version doesn't have Beam as that is bigger than the Carronade but the Destructor does. Beam would at least make the smaller version a bit more interesting to take as the Voidbreaker rule as it stands is a bit naff.
Chopstick wrote: Strength 5 is about right in comparison to HH,7th ed rule and similar weapon. The bigger volkite weapons have haywire rule, which all titans have immunity to.
These are bigger than the Carronade from the Glaive and that also had the Beam rule. Shame the Eradicator version doesn't have Beam as that is bigger than the Carronade but the Destructor does. Beam would at least make the smaller version a bit more interesting to take as the Voidbreaker rule as it stands is a bit naff.
Not the strangest mismatch about gu size and rules. Plasma Blastguns get blast but Sunfuries do not, as do the Acastus magna lascannons but not turbolasers.
MajorWesJanson wrote: Not the strangest mismatch about gun size and rules. Plasma Blastguns get blast but Sunfuries do not, as do the Acastus magna lascannons but not turbolasers.
I'd say the Acastus is the outlier here in that they buggered up the rules good and proper.
In other news, GW marketing doesn't give a gak/is completely clueless* as they appear to have highlighted the wrong weapon in the Volkite launch image:
It's like some marketdroids really dislike having to deal with those specialist games weirdos...
I think it's moreso that talking to artists/graphic-design monkeys is really hard. They don't do words, which is why they do pictures or graphic design. I've found the most effective way is to draw them a picture, and have them copy it. Like in this case I would have taken the picture and circled the weapons in MS Paint.
It just serves to make my point, gw needs to hire someone for AT that gives a damn, but instead they're hiring paralegals to search the internet to send scary cease and desist letters to people offering free 3d model files.
Adeptus titanicus the miniature game happen in an alternate universe where flamer melt titans and the vulcan mega bolter on the arioch fist is for decorative purpose.
Chopstick wrote: Adeptus titanicus the miniature game happen in an alternate universe where flamer melt titans and the vulcan mega bolter on the arioch fist is for decorative purpose.
Ya, they should just have that as an upgrade to the fist but then they'd have to make the card.
This is not battletech, inferno cannon and the smaller acheron flame cannon is strictly anti-infantry and is completely useless against titan armor.
Pure writer's fantasy, no explanation about the invention of miraculous titan melting fuel, normally such huge evolution of technologies like this deserve new variation and design for the weapons.
Yeah, if Titans themselves are not too far fetched, ridiculous fuel(doesn't even have to be heat based, could be purely chemical reaction of the liquid and armour, plenty of acids creat a great deal of heat during oxidation, etc) isn't out of the realm of "possibility".
It doesnt have to melt the armor either, but flaming liquid can get into gaps and vents, melt wiring, ect. We know Titans can withstand a virus bombardment, but they have to specifically seal themselves up to do it
At S7 titan armor actually melt, that's the same strength as destroyer class reaper chainsword, which is used to cut through titan and thick super-heavy tank plating.
Land raider in the AT-verse will be fried in second against miracle flamer. While in the main 40kHH/7th and below ed universe the weapon is completely useless.vs Land raider.
Actually just use Questoris knight as example, normally they would last several rounds even when hit in the rear, but not here.
Problem easily addressed with simple note or new design/variations, but that'd mean people who worked on the game has to give a hoot.
The point about oxidation and heat is a good one, it might not be the flame that kills a titan, it might be the heat it generates if its targets core is already on the edge of blowing up.
Also, without factoring in any damage, being literally on fire probably messes with a lot of the instrumentation from the crews perspective. Also, the heat would mess up IR targetting and also make the titan a massive target in IR for other titans or planes/tanks.
I can agree the rules in game are pretty bad, they should have the ability to on a dice roll cause heat pips or something.
On the volkite side I feel like if they just fixed voidbraker it might help enough. The other unspoken problem with AT is on the weapon side the points don't have a lot of room to breath at the lower end of things. With the warlord there's a big spread in terms of what a weapon might cost but on a warhound or reaver a lot fall into the 10-25pt range, vulcan mega bolters are a steal at this price. Volkite has to compete with better options and right now the only silver lining I'm seeing on the warhound volkite front is "maybe I'll take a volkite just to make it easier to tell warhounds apart". Really wishing there was a more compelling reason other than it looks cool.
Mr_Rose wrote: Yeah, flamers need a heat scale rule; how about if they manage do do a devastating hit or better advance the target’s reactor one space.
Then we can even have room for more advanced/experimental weapons that instead of advancing the reactor, push it instead.
Maybe if you roll like multiple 6's on damage it does a pip of heat
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gorgon wrote: I don't think AT is for the kind of person who gets bent out of shape over the realism/details of flame weapons.
The rules could be more interesting/better though, in home brew terrain rules we left flame weapons remove scatter terrain/ruins if the template is over when attacking another unit, gives them something.
Regarding melting landraiders with flamers, you aren't really melting the tank you're just cooking the crew (imo), as happened in WW2 etc when they flamed tanks.
People keep bringing their own science + realism insead of actual 40k lore + rules is mind boggling, The crew,and the land raider and survived for decade in every other setting, and the weapons has always been marked to be used for anti-infantry. Not for super heavy unit and titans.
Lore say they're for infantry, but in my fantasy they're super effective vs Titans, my fantasy > lore and that guy who established them decade ago.
The big flamers haven't been around for decades. If you're talking about hand flamers I can see why you might be boggled out of your little box but idk why you'd be talking about hand flamers, we are talking about Acheron flame cannons here at an absolute minimum, and they haven't been around decades and there's no reason they shouldn't be able to fk up a land raider.
So I've made it a point to read every Knight themed novel that GW has put out and fire/heat management absolutely do come up.
I don't remember the specific instances but there are a couple references to pilots becoming mildly fatigued just from ambient heat that starts baking them in their cockpit (even with AC).
The Knights of the Imperium novel even has a specific incident where a massive fuel tanker is detonated in a tunnel which cooks off physical ammo (detonating knight limbs) and leaves pilots with burn injuries where they are in contact with metallic parts of their cabin.
Edit: And yes I realize those are Knights not Titans, but I think a large and focused enough heat source could have the possibility to turn a titan head into an oven or cook off macrocannon shells.
Padre wrote: So, um, hey...what about any...you know...actual News or Rumors?
Don't think there will be anything new till the volkites ship and we can confirm the cards are the same as the previewed rules.
Yeah - The Specialist Games Department is probably focusing on Space Marine and Eldar Aeronautica teases. Sometimes we get lucky and a 'real' preview turns up in an Engine Kill article but I'm not sure we will see one soon. The next real tease is probably going to be Corrupted Titans... but you never know.
I think that's a reasonable call, we've now run through almost the knights and also every titan, there's technically a space for the Dominus knights and the as yet unknown titan chassis but logically the corrupted titan bits could slide in some time soon.
I'm not sure what to think about the next release. It makes sense that the Traitor Legios book will include Corrupted Titans. But then CTs feel like something they'd first release as part of a campaign, and we never did get that Kado book they mentioned a while ago. So to me, it's possible that they save the Traitor book until after another campaign book that reveals CTs.
There's still plenty of stuff for future releases. We still have the Rapier and Reaver-Warhound 'tweener. More Psi-Titans were also teased, and I'm guessing that there will be more than one kit for Corrupted Titans. They've been seeding mentions of Rapiers into the books for a while now, so one would think they can't be THAT far away.
The Asterius and Traitor Legios seem highly likely for the next release.
Titan wise we've just had the Warmaster so that'll probably be it for a while now. The releases schedule seems to alternate between titans and knights so I'd say a knight is up next.
Padre wrote: So, um, hey...what about any...you know...actual News or Rumors?
Don't think there will be anything new till the volkites ship and we can confirm the cards are the same as the previewed rules.
Yeah - The Specialist Games Department is probably focusing on Space Marine and Eldar Aeronautica teases. Sometimes we get lucky and a 'real' preview turns up in an Engine Kill article but I'm not sure we will see one soon. The next real tease is probably going to be Corrupted Titans... but you never know.
I don't wanna get too excited for corrupted titans, my concern is at best we'll get some very expensive fw conversion kits.
gorgon wrote: Alternating? You mean Knight-Knight-Knight-Titan?
And that may or may not happen, but IMO it would pretty disappointing for Traitor Legio players to get a single Knight variant as their "big" release.
Well, if we're going to include FW releases then technically thats Titan-Titan-Knight-Knight-Knight-Titan, which breaks even. And that isn't even including the generous selection of weapon kits for titans, which would make Knights criminally undersupported in comparison...
No, I was referring to only GW releases and thus still alternating, at least in recent times. Acastus--Warbringer--C'variants--Warmaster. Personally, I don't count the Castigator & Acheron kit as it is just a variant and was a cheap cop-out for GW to cut costs by printing two small knights on the same sprue, forcing us to purchase two banners instead of just one. But regardless it is a new sprue and technically a new kit, so we must go with it...
I too hope its a new titan as I'm one short of a min-maniple, and would prefer a new titan to enjoy.
I'd argue otherwise, GW set up the sprues specifically giving loyal & Traitor armour panels. Further it would be reasonable for them to have an upgrade size(single 40k character sprue) for traitors. Now if they're going down the resin for this driveway it makes me less enthused but still buying when the come out, less $€£¥ I'm gonna spend.
I don't count the Castigator & Acheron kit as it is just a variant and was a cheap cop-out for GW to cut costs by printing two small knights on the same sprue,
Wouldn't called those cheap in both productions and pricing, they waste huge chunk of sprue space to make body, legs, and heads again instead of making a single well planned out kit that can be used to built all 3 variants and have some extra bit shoved in.
I wonder if they planned for the non lancer cerastus were originally planned as resin upgrades. Neither design is particularly strong vs titans compared to the lancer, and the lancer sprue has all 3 heads.
Acheron's gun do 4(6 with Ignus Light) S7 auto hit per minimum banner, that is a lot of easy direct hit on Titans with flank bonus, and Ceratus happen to move very fast, and their CC weapon is decent.
They're also good at guarding titans against oncoming knights.
Lancer's lance blast (yes the blast is from the lance not the shield) still use cerastus's crappy 4+ BS with slightly better range, so they're not very threatening until they get in combat.
Wouldn't called those cheap in both productions and pricing, they waste huge chunk of sprue space to make body, legs, and heads again instead of making a single well planned out kit that can be used to built all 3 variants and have some extra bit shoved in.
In hindsight I'd agree with that as it would have allowed FW to use existing plastic sprues, keeping the price down on their mechanicum knights.
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Racerguy180 wrote: I'd argue otherwise, GW set up the sprues specifically giving loyal & Traitor armour panels. Further it would be reasonable for them to have an upgrade size(single 40k character sprue) for traitors. Now if they're going down the resin for this driveway it makes me less enthused but still buying when the come out, less $€£¥ I'm gonna spend.
If they couldn't go the length of an alternative Warbringer weapon sprue, which would be bought by players of both factions, then I doubt they will get out of bed for a reskinned titan which will only appeal to traitor players.
If they bring something new to the table, like EMP effects, cool. Also if they do something else that isn’t already available like high RoF but weak shieldbane, but if it’s a fancy looking autocannon like it is in 30k then forget it.
Mr_Rose wrote: If they bring something new to the table, like EMP effects, cool. Also if they do something else that isn’t already available like high RoF but weak shieldbane, but if it’s a fancy looking autocannon like it is in 30k then forget it.
My hope is there will be more universal wargear in the eventual traitor book. I feel like they could do some housekeeping with some of the stratagems that basically function like wargear but have the clunky having to assign to a titan first turn mechanic that can sometimes get gummed up by stuff like vox blackout. If they just moved a lot of those over to being wargear or limited wargear like 1 per battlegroup or whatever. More alternate ammo types for existing weapons, possible some that are just one use counter measures like the missiles that drop 5 inch los blockers. The more wargear the better. It's also a round about way of fixing some weapons that need love. Imagine being able to upgrade flame weapons to shoot phosphex and or cause heat pips on a certain roll.
Mr_Rose wrote: If they bring something new to the table, like EMP effects, cool. Also if they do something else that isn’t already available like high RoF but weak shieldbane, but if it’s a fancy looking autocannon like it is in 30k then forget it.
My hope is there will be more universal wargear in the eventual traitor book. I feel like they could do some housekeeping with some of the stratagems that basically function like wargear but have the clunky having to assign to a titan first turn mechanic that can sometimes get gummed up by stuff like vox blackout. If they just moved a lot of those over to being wargear or limited wargear like 1 per battlegroup or whatever. More alternate ammo types for existing weapons, possible some that are just one use counter measures like the missiles that drop 5 inch los blockers. The more wargear the better. It's also a round about way of fixing some weapons that need love. Imagine being able to upgrade flame weapons to shoot phosphex and or cause heat pips on a certain roll.
The ever popular 'Titan Hunter Infantry' didn't make it into Loyalist Legios. Neither did any of the battlefield stratagems from the core set. Are they saving those for Traitor Legios? I mean... I was going to buy it anyway.
Ageed that some stratagems would be better off as upgrades.
Mr_Rose wrote: If they bring something new to the table, like EMP effects, cool. Also if they do something else that isn’t already available like high RoF but weak shieldbane, but if it’s a fancy looking autocannon like it is in 30k then forget it.
My hope is there will be more universal wargear in the eventual traitor book. I feel like they could do some housekeeping with some of the stratagems that basically function like wargear but have the clunky having to assign to a titan first turn mechanic that can sometimes get gummed up by stuff like vox blackout. If they just moved a lot of those over to being wargear or limited wargear like 1 per battlegroup or whatever. More alternate ammo types for existing weapons, possible some that are just one use counter measures like the missiles that drop 5 inch los blockers. The more wargear the better. It's also a round about way of fixing some weapons that need love. Imagine being able to upgrade flame weapons to shoot phosphex and or cause heat pips on a certain roll.
The ever popular 'Titan Hunter Infantry' didn't make it into Loyalist Legios. Neither did any of the battlefield stratagems from the core set. Are they saving those for Traitor Legios? I mean... I was going to buy it anyway.
Ageed that some stratagems would be better off as upgrades.
From my understanding they're still fine to take but if an updated version exists in loyalist legios use that one basically.
It seems like we'll all have to wait till friday to see the volkite rules.
If they couldn't go the length of an alternative Warbringer weapon sprue, which would be bought by players of both factions, then I doubt they will get out of bed for a reskinned titan which will only appeal to traitor players.
I'd love to see full plastic kits happen, though.
It really wouldn't surprise me if the original plan (before 2020) was to release an alternative weapon sprue for the Warbringer, then it got scrubbed due to production / logistics reasons. The box design lists the weapons included, implying there would be another boxed version. Plus there was a fairly long wait for what is a relatively simple resin kit, enough time to repurpose existing CAD component designs.
There was a long period last year where GW were struggling to keep many plastic kits in stock (hi plasma warlords). Perhaps they decided a whole new sprue wasn't worth the trouble when the other arm weapons are already available, and anything except the belicosa is cosmetic. Maybe another kit received the resources instead, and we'll see corrupted knights or reaver armour in plastic later in lieu of a second Warbringer kit.
Definitely agree that there is something iffy with the way the Warbringer has been handled. For example, why include a weapon card with the belicosa upgrade when its already included in the plastic warbringer kit, and the warbringer can only have one belicosa anyway? Too much that doesn't add up.
SamusDrake wrote: Definitely agree that there is something iffy with the way the Warbringer has been handled. For example, why include a weapon card with the belicosa upgrade when its already included in the plastic warbringer kit, and the warbringer can only have one belicosa anyway? Too much that doesn't add up.
Yep, I reckon that was a mistake on the original release, I suspect that card was meant to be the arm mounted volcano cannon (so, you know, the cards actually matched what you got in the box) but someone pasted in the carapace version by mistake. Then either no one at GW has twigged that yet, hence the extra card with the gun, or maybe the cards were already in production before anyone realised and they figured they might as well include it anyway.
from bolter and chainsword, not only are they really bad, forge world's version of including the card is letting you cut out a print from the blister's backing... don't try too hard on that premium product, if you're not even going to try I welcome third party's eating their lunch.
Just for the record, you can get 2 vulcan megabolters for the price of one of these pieces of crap. The warlord one might have some use but it's not enough to get the taste out of my mouth over the waste the other two are, why even make new stuff for the game if they don't play it?
Artisans of vaul just posted a preview of what they've got cooking up for the warmaster and it looks pretty cool. It will be available soon apparently too, as soon as test prints are done.
I'm excited to see how it looks, I kept the carapace launcher on my warmaster unglued so excited to get one for myself. One of the best things about the third party guys is there are a lot of count as weapon options just to make models that much more unique. The mortar seems like a good stand in for the missiles, makes sense that it would have corridor arc and limited ammo given the size of that thing.
It's also using the same rules as the missile launcher so it's ammo is pretty limited in the rules, I think it can only fire for four rounds of the game.
On the one hand, I'm glad that this is not the other way around, with a hard to get an expensive FW weapon becoming a "must have" because it would be much more efficient point for point than alternatives.
On the other hand, I'm really sad that those (at least the Warhound & Reaver versions) don't even seem to have a niche use... Also very angry at the "card included" packaging.
So just another example of how cool the AT third party options are and how far ahead of gw/fw they are, this is artisans of vaul's new warmaster carapace weapon, it also seems like the mount might be workable for some of the warbringer carapace weapons.
Natrix Shock Lance causes Titans to go on Shutdown orders.
So have the US folks who ordered Volkite weapons...got theirs yet? My order has been pending for almost 3 weeks. Most of my order was other stuff, but I'm starting to wonder about it.
gorgon wrote: Natrix Shock Lance causes Titans to go on Shutdown orders.
So have the US folks who ordered Volkite weapons...got theirs yet? My order has been pending for almost 3 weeks. Most of my order was other stuff, but I'm starting to wonder about it.
My lot have turned up. Just got the Destructor to assemble. The Eradicators are going to be shelf warmers for now but I've got them for completionist sake
gorgon wrote: Natrix Shock Lance causes Titans to go on Shutdown orders.
So have the US folks who ordered Volkite weapons...got theirs yet? My order has been pending for almost 3 weeks. Most of my order was other stuff, but I'm starting to wonder about it.
Nope. Still waiting on mine as well. I ordered them as soon as they were available, and they still haven't been shipped (along with the other stuff I ordered). I'm not sure what the point of a preorder is if they don't actually fulfill it when the items are available.
I've not been impressed with FW's fufillment lately. And their billing process is a mess, not counting the non-UK markup slapped onto everything these days.
Just putting it out there, battlebling's ability to ship in a reasonable timeframe is worthy of note, in my case it was literally a bespoke model order because they had to print the custom titan name plates and I'm pretty sure that took like 2-3 days and shipping was super fast considering, less than a couple weeks.
Crablezworth wrote: Just putting it out there, battlebling's ability to ship in a reasonable timeframe is worthy of note, in my case it was literally a bespoke model order because they had to print the custom titan name plates and I'm pretty sure that took like 2-3 days and shipping was super fast considering, less than a couple weeks.
Compared to FW, almost everyone ships in reasonable timeframe.
WarCom wrote:On its left arm, you can equip either the Krius siege drill or Krius grav imploder. The former is simple – a massive drill designed to crack fortifications, handily mounted within an enormous claw.
The grav imploder, however, is a device from a lost age, barely understood by the reckless Tech-Priests who now sanction its use. Through means unknown, the grav imploder concentrates gravity into a beam that turns the mass of an enemy against itself. This curious weapon can effortlessly implode a Titan into a heap of molten slag or crumple a Knight like an empty tin of corpse starch.
WarCom wrote:On its left arm, you can equip either the Krius siege drill or Krius grav imploder. The former is simple – a massive drill designed to crack fortifications, handily mounted within an enormous claw.
The grav imploder, however, is a device from a lost age, barely understood by the reckless Tech-Priests who now sanction its use. Through means unknown, the grav imploder concentrates gravity into a beam that turns the mass of an enemy against itself. This curious weapon can effortlessly implode a Titan into a heap of molten slag or crumple a Knight like an empty tin of corpse starch.
I can't see much of a difference in the photos...
Nah, it’s just the middle bit. I wish they were more different, it took me a couple of reads to even realise they’d shown both. Love the chainsaw though, with the hook for presumably pulling apart buildings (and Titans).
It looks perfectly built to grapple with other titans! Or Tyranids or Greater Demons. All those flamers and miniguns and that huge chain fist and sword - its built to get right in close and make a mess of anything it got into contact with
Why not pick up some warhounds? Maybe because we already have so many of them...?
I would assume it's a GW plastic kit, considering it has multiple head options and a whole new set of weapons, so the standard sprue swap that they do for AT. A FW release would likely be individual weapons.
Overread wrote: It looks perfectly built to grapple with other titans! Or Tyranids or Greater Demons. All those flamers and miniguns and that huge chain fist and sword - its built to get right in close and make a mess of anything it got into contact with
Given the size of it, it could simply step on Greater Deamons to kill them on the spot.
The Article wrote:Yes, it is. Meet the Warmaster Iconoclast Heavy Battle Titan.At 100 tons of ruinous energy, the Iconoclast is all about barrelling into the enemy like a 40-metre mechanical bull, delivering devastating close-range attacks with a preposterous loadout of melee weaponry.
It's 40m tall and 100 tons? Shouldn't that be 1000 tons or something?
Overread wrote: It looks perfectly built to grapple with other titans! Or Tyranids or Greater Demons. All those flamers and miniguns and that huge chain fist and sword - its built to get right in close and make a mess of anything it got into contact with
Given the size of it, it could simply step on Greater Deamons to kill them on the spot.
Yes and No - Greater Demons don't have a set size as such. Heck in the old Epic days the Epic model and the 40K model were one and the same for a time. Representing that a greater demon growing in power would grow in size to vast proportions.
So yes it could step on a lesser greater demon sized for 40K; but for one that had grown in power to be titan in size it would have to fight it out.
Why not pick up some warhounds? Maybe because we already have so many of them...?
I would assume it's a GW plastic kit, considering it has multiple head options and a whole new set of weapons, so the standard sprue swap that they do for AT. A FW release would likely be individual weapons.
Still not a 28mm Warmaster though...
Ordinarily I'd agree with that assessment(its a good point) but after the Warbringer "upgrade" I wouldn't get our hopes up. That one definitely should've been a plastic sprue swap out.
"chainsword the size of a skyscraper" seems like a weird way to advertise it, when the titan carrying the chainsword is itself not the size of a skyscraper (it would be less than half the height of the statue of liberty at 40m tall per a later paragraph in the same article - the damned thing would be dwarfed by most of the buildings in manhattan.
100 tons is also a hilariously light weight for something supposedly that large - an M1 Abrams battletank weighs 70 tons and is only a fraction of the size of a titan.
MajorWesJanson wrote: Hopefully you can mix and match arms and carapace between the iconoclast and standard.
I believe you can, I think it's like the warlord kit, the body is the same just the arms and carapace and heads/faces are different. The real question is if they'll be selling the sprues separately on release or not, if they don't battle bling deserves to eat their lunch.
chaos0xomega wrote: "chainsword the size of a skyscraper" seems like a weird way to advertise it, when the titan carrying the chainsword is itself not the size of a skyscraper (it would be less than half the height of the statue of liberty at 40m tall per a later paragraph in the same article - the damned thing would be dwarfed by most of the buildings in manhattan.
100 tons is also a hilariously light weight for something supposedly that large - an M1 Abrams battletank weighs 70 tons and is only a fraction of the size of a titan.
In fairness, the statue of liberty is 46 metres tall, counting the building it's on top of is pretty misleading.
MajorWesJanson wrote: Hopefully you can mix and match arms and carapace between the iconoclast and standard.
I believe you can, I think it's like the warlord kit, the body is the same just the arms and carapace and heads/faces are different. The real question is if they'll be selling the sprues separately on release or not, if they don't battle bling deserves to eat their lunch.
Maybe the iconoclast box and traitor compendium in stores, and sprue as direct only at the same time?
MajorWesJanson wrote: Hopefully you can mix and match arms and carapace between the iconoclast and standard.
I believe you can, I think it's like the warlord kit, the body is the same just the arms and carapace and heads/faces are different. The real question is if they'll be selling the sprues separately on release or not, if they don't battle bling deserves to eat their lunch.
Maybe the iconoclast box and traitor compendium in stores, and sprue as direct only at the same time?
Hope so, it just seems unrealistic to own two warmasters.
The 100 tons stuck out to me as well. a Battletech mini is roughly the same scale and stands ~28 mm and the biggest mechs are 100 tons. Even 1000 tons seems light for a Titan.
Prometheum5 wrote: The 100 tons stuck out to me as well. a Battletech mini is roughly the same scale and stands ~28 mm and the biggest mechs are 100 tons. Even 1000 tons seems light for a Titan.
Ya, much like the chainsword the size of a "skyscraper" more like apartment block lol
The Article wrote:Yes, it is. Meet the Warmaster Iconoclast Heavy Battle Titan.At 100 tons of ruinous energy, the Iconoclast is all about barrelling into the enemy like a 40-metre mechanical bull, delivering devastating close-range attacks with a preposterous loadout of melee weaponry.
It's 40m tall and 100 tons? Shouldn't that be 1000 tons or something?
Yeah it should weigh a lot more. Maybe only 100 tons of it are filled with "ruinous energy" and the rest is filled with like "mild bemusement" or "passing irritation"?
The Article wrote:Yes, it is. Meet the Warmaster Iconoclast Heavy Battle Titan.At 100 tons of ruinous energy, the Iconoclast is all about barrelling into the enemy like a 40-metre mechanical bull, delivering devastating close-range attacks with a preposterous loadout of melee weaponry.
It's 40m tall and 100 tons? Shouldn't that be 1000 tons or something?
Yeah it should weigh a lot more. Maybe only 100 tons of it are filled with "ruinous energy" and the rest is filled with like "mild bemusement" or "passing irritation"?
Maybe it’s just the grav-imploder that’s 100 tons? Or the chainsword with, for some reason, an integral billhook in case merely swinging twenty feet of whirring teeth at a building was somehow insufficient.
The Article wrote:Yes, it is. Meet the Warmaster Iconoclast Heavy Battle Titan.At 100 tons of ruinous energy, the Iconoclast is all about barrelling into the enemy like a 40-metre mechanical bull, delivering devastating close-range attacks with a preposterous loadout of melee weaponry.
It's 40m tall and 100 tons? Shouldn't that be 1000 tons or something?
Yeah it should weigh a lot more. Maybe only 100 tons of it are filled with "ruinous energy" and the rest is filled with like "mild bemusement" or "passing irritation"?
That would be 100 Martian Tons as opposed to Metric Tons or Standard Tons. Don't get them started on the Martian inch, because Napoleon was 6,814 Martian Inches tall
The Article wrote:Yes, it is. Meet the Warmaster Iconoclast Heavy Battle Titan.At 100 tons of ruinous energy, the Iconoclast is all about barrelling into the enemy like a 40-metre mechanical bull, delivering devastating close-range attacks with a preposterous loadout of melee weaponry.
It's 40m tall and 100 tons? Shouldn't that be 1000 tons or something?
Yeah it should weigh a lot more. Maybe only 100 tons of it are filled with "ruinous energy" and the rest is filled with like "mild bemusement" or "passing irritation"?
Make those latin and they would make some great Titan names.
The Article wrote:Yes, it is. Meet the Warmaster Iconoclast Heavy Battle Titan.At 100 tons of ruinous energy, the Iconoclast is all about barrelling into the enemy like a 40-metre mechanical bull, delivering devastating close-range attacks with a preposterous loadout of melee weaponry.
It's 40m tall and 100 tons? Shouldn't that be 1000 tons or something?
40K years into the future, a clerical error converting Martian tons, sci-fi metals and it's all made up.
Alas, it's another Titan my Ember Wolves can't field. Although it would probably look pretty good in allied Vulpa colors, now that I think about it...
Why not pick up another box of hounds, gorgon?
To be fair, we Audax players are a special case.
I'm saving my Audax funds for Rapiers and corrupted Titans at this point. I guess I could pick up a Warmaster for my Praesagius, but they're really just a secondary Legio/punching bag for my Audax. And I'd certainly take the regular Warmaster over this one in that instance.
But cool model and it's good to see continuing AT support in a big way (pun intended).
Bit useless putting CCW on this. moves too slow to be of any real threat in the game. Easily out-manuvoure it with smaller titans picking it off from a distance.
Also, this now means some of the 3rd Party Vendors will make some CCW Weapons.
Love it. I can only hope that you can swap the weapons about with the plasma cannons that the previous Warmaster had.
My bet is that it'll be two separate boxes (much like the Reaver is now) but if we're lucky they'll sell the upgrade sprues separately (as they do with most weapons)
drbored wrote: Love it. I can only hope that you can swap the weapons about with the plasma cannons that the previous Warmaster had.
My bet is that it'll be two separate boxes (much like the Reaver is now) but if we're lucky they'll sell the upgrade sprues separately (as they do with most weapons)
Yeah, I assume this is the boxed set to come alongside the traitor book.
The Article wrote:Yes, it is. Meet the Warmaster Iconoclast Heavy Battle Titan.At 100 tons of ruinous energy, the Iconoclast is all about barrelling into the enemy like a 40-metre mechanical bull, delivering devastating close-range attacks with a preposterous loadout of melee weaponry.
It's 40m tall and 100 tons? Shouldn't that be 1000 tons or something?
Yeah it should weigh a lot more. Maybe only 100 tons of it are filled with "ruinous energy" and the rest is filled with like "mild bemusement" or "passing irritation"?
Make those latin and they would make some great Titan names.
Ruinous Energy - Energy ruinam collium pugnantium
Mild Bemusement - Mitis perplexus
Passing Irritation - transeuntes Irritatio
Well, according to Google Translate, anyway - any actual Latin scholars can correct as necessary.
The Article wrote:Yes, it is. Meet the Warmaster Iconoclast Heavy Battle Titan.At 100 tons of ruinous energy, the Iconoclast is all about barrelling into the enemy like a 40-metre mechanical bull, delivering devastating close-range attacks with a preposterous loadout of melee weaponry.
It's 40m tall and 100 tons? Shouldn't that be 1000 tons or something?
Yeah it should weigh a lot more. Maybe only 100 tons of it are filled with "ruinous energy" and the rest is filled with like "mild bemusement" or "passing irritation"?
Make those latin and they would make some great Titan names.
Ruinous Energy - Energy ruinam collium pugnantium
Mild Bemusement - Mitis perplexus
Passing Irritation - transeuntes Irritatio
Well, according to Google Translate, anyway - any actual Latin scholars can correct as necessary.
Of the three, I quite like Mitis Perplexus
Latinn scholar would probably tell you to capitalise, and maybe also ditch the you ie MITIS PERPLEXVS
The Article wrote:Yes, it is. Meet the Warmaster Iconoclast Heavy Battle Titan.At 100 tons of ruinous energy, the Iconoclast is all about barrelling into the enemy like a 40-metre mechanical bull, delivering devastating close-range attacks with a preposterous loadout of melee weaponry.
It's 40m tall and 100 tons? Shouldn't that be 1000 tons or something?
Yeah it should weigh a lot more. Maybe only 100 tons of it are filled with "ruinous energy" and the rest is filled with like "mild bemusement" or "passing irritation"?
Maybe it’s just the grav-imploder that’s 100 tons? Or the chainsword with, for some reason, an integral billhook in case merely swinging twenty feet of whirring teeth at a building was somehow insufficient.
Honestly? Unless it's hollow, the only thing that could by itself be a hunner tons is the head.
TheSecretSquig wrote: Bit useless putting CCW on this. moves too slow to be of any real threat in the game. Easily out-manuvoure it with smaller titans picking it off from a distance.
Also, this now means some of the 3rd Party Vendors will make some CCW Weapons.
It's not useless, for one, unlike a warlord this thing mounts 5 weapons, so unlike a warlord with a ccw weapon, this thing only loses 1/5 of its slots instead of a third. It's shooting is often overkill for one target, so losing a plasma arm to take a ccw actually isn't the end of the world, especially when you can take shoulder plasma blasters that get +1 to hit and a carapace weapon.
I won't argue that close combat is the way to go in titanicus, but it's incredibly final given enough attacks or strength because it ignores shields and can target for free.
Melee weapons are not just for offense, it also deters knights and Titans from trying to charge it.
Exactly, that's a lot of the reason to take one on a reaver or warlord, it screams stay the hell away or get punched/sliced.
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drbored wrote: Love it. I can only hope that you can swap the weapons about with the plasma cannons that the previous Warmaster had.
My bet is that it'll be two separate boxes (much like the Reaver is now) but if we're lucky they'll sell the upgrade sprues separately (as they do with most weapons)
Not if we're lucky, if they're lucky. If not battle bling will eat their lunch and be right to do it.
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MajorWesJanson wrote: Maybe the next terrain set will be fortresses and bunkers, things that need torn apart.
I'd love the next set to a be a ruined version of the civitas terrain that's backwards compatible, that's what the game needs, more ruins and destructible terrain.
Malika2 wrote: Will it be a plastic kit or a FW resin upgrade?
Almost certainly plastic, it's a bunch of new weapons, multiple new heads and a few new armour panels (upper arms), so looks like a sprue replacement. The FW stuff tends to be single weapons (or paired carapace weapons), rather than a whole bunch of different stuff (especially multiple head options). I guess the only exception is the Psi-Titan, but that's maybe a bit of a special case.
Fantastic miniature, but I'm not sure how useful it's going to be with 4 inch movement. That being said if you stock it in the middle of the board, it will kill everything when it dies.
Plant wrote: Fantastic miniature, but I'm not sure how useful it's going to be with 4 inch movement. That being said if you stock it in the middle of the board, it will kill everything when it dies.
isn't warbringer 5/7 and 2/3 turns? Faster than warlord(makes sense. it's smaller)
Plant wrote: Fantastic miniature, but I'm not sure how useful it's going to be with 4 inch movement. That being said if you stock it in the middle of the board, it will kill everything when it dies.
If you take Plasmatic Locomotors it's a 7" boosted movement, meaning it'll get most of the way across the board with full stride orders. That card also specifically mentions melee weapons, so it's pretty much written for this build. Some legios also have special rules to make titans even faster, and I'm confident the Traitor Legios book will have more.
Wonder if you can mix + match weapons between the two weapon sprues.
On the “just how effective is this lummox gonna be” is kind of important to the wider game.
After all, we like new Titans. Everyone likes new Titans, and if you don’t there’s no helping you, you wrong’un.
However, no new Titan should be an obvious replacement in terms of effectiveness compared to the others. So they’re almost always going to be a peculiar niche - something which might require the rest of the maniple to properly support them, as opposed to more general load outs.
Malika2 wrote: Will it be a plastic kit or a FW resin upgrade?
Almost certainly plastic, it's a bunch of new weapons, multiple new heads and a few new armour panels (upper arms), so looks like a sprue replacement. The FW stuff tends to be single weapons (or paired carapace weapons), rather than a whole bunch of different stuff (especially multiple head options). I guess the only exception is the Psi-Titan, but that's maybe a bit of a special case.
That's what you would think right? It's just the the details on the chainsword and that fist weapon look more akin to how FW's resin weapon upgrades are done. The detailing reminds me more of FW's latest Volkite Titan weapons rather than the plastic weapon kits.
Malika2 wrote: Will it be a plastic kit or a FW resin upgrade?
Almost certainly plastic, it's a bunch of new weapons, multiple new heads and a few new armour panels (upper arms), so looks like a sprue replacement. The FW stuff tends to be single weapons (or paired carapace weapons), rather than a whole bunch of different stuff (especially multiple head options). I guess the only exception is the Psi-Titan, but that's maybe a bit of a special case.
That's what you would think right? It's just the the details on the chainsword and that fist weapon look more akin to how FW's resin weapon upgrades are done. The detailing reminds me more of FW's latest Volkite Titan weapons rather than the plastic weapon kits.
I can see your point about the details, but could be a resin\3D printed mock-up used in the photos. Basically everything that has changed comes from one sprue (weapons, tilt shields, upper arm armour, heads), it would seem a bit odd if FW decided to make a kit that replaced all the parts from one sprue but didn't change anything else. Of course, there's always the chance it was designed to be a sprue and got switched to resin but would still seem an odd release.
With regards to plastic vs resin, its kinda weird to me how they haven't really done any plastic alt builds since basically the first wave of releases. They released the alt-warlord and alt-reaver in plastic, and since then its only been resin weapon upgrades, pretty disappointing since they said early on they would be releasing a variety of plastic weapon upgrades for the titans over time.
chaos0xomega wrote: With regards to plastic vs resin, its kinda weird to me how they haven't really done any plastic alt builds since basically the first wave of releases. They released the alt-warlord and alt-reaver in plastic, and since then its only been resin weapon upgrades, pretty disappointing since they said early on they would be releasing a variety of plastic weapon upgrades for the titans over time.
As I understand each of the specialist games get allotted a given amount of plastic frames to use at a time, and anything that doesn't fit into that capacity must be done in resin. The Warbringer came alongside plastic terrain, then Cerastus knights a little later. All combined they use about the same mold capacity as a Warmaster. I believe that the alternative Warbringer weapons were originally intended to be done as a sprue, only for the studio to decide on assigning that capacity for something else since it would mostly be adding copies of reaver weapons we already have in plastic.
I'm now expecting that for corrupted titans we'll either see them done in resin much like the psi-titan, or they'll be held back to be released next year. To be fair, multiple plastic corrupted titans would make pretty good content for a new starter box and even a relaunch of the core game like they did with Blood Bowl.
I'm absolutely getting one. There's no way I'm not getting at least one of everything. That being said, it took me a week to build and paint the last warmaster, so it's going to spend some time on the pile of shame.
Finished my Warmaster in about two weeks of painting, but most of the alternate shoulder weapon options have been sat waiting on my desk ever since taunting me...
