schoon wrote: Has there been any previous fluff on the Krius Grav Imploder?
Some 30k Mechanicum vehicles (like the Macrodarid Explorator) have smaller versions.
Lexicanum wrote:The weapon was designed on the Forge World of Tigrus. Also called the 'Tank Crusher', it was a concentrated beam that created a collapsing grav-field which brought down kinetic force proportional to the density and mass of the material it struck. It thus proved effective against heavily armored foes and vehicles. Crude and power-hungry, the design was deemed blasphemous by some Magos who saw it as a perversion of ancient patterns. However its capabilities proved invaluable during the Horus Heresy.
Plant wrote: Fantastic miniature, but I'm not sure how useful it's going to be with 4 inch movement. That being said if you stock it in the middle of the board, it will kill everything when it dies.
A few points on cc, it has 3 turns when boosted, so it's actually not easy to flank as a warlord, it's also theoretically possible to give it 1ccw arm and have the other still be the big plasma, on top of plasma shoulders and now choice potentially of carapace, the honestly seems decent to me, dual plasma arms can be overkill at times. I think too it's worth pointing out that outside of games where both sides have a warmaster, it's never been a very balanced concept, for one, most games seem to be about 1750-2000pts ish so an 1100+ point titan always sorta pushed the point up. Even at 2500pts, my last game with the warmaster I still could only fit 4 more titans (2 reavers, 2 hounds) so because we both had one, the game was decent and didn't seem much long than a game at 1850pts but the second only one side is fielding one things get a bit weird just in terms of activations or lack there of on one side.
The BattleTech Kickstarter will be here soon. The BattleTech Kickstarter will be here soon. The BattleTech Kickstarter will be here soon.
*rocks back and forth*
The models are in scale. Somehow, somewhere these games need to meet.
Doesn't seem that fair. An Atlas assault mech is 11ish meters tall and 100 tons. Roughly the same size as a Questoris Knight. Maybe if all the proper titans were bust dueling with dropships and letting the knights deal with the battlemechs?
The Iowa class battleship has a displacement of 48592 tons and is 262.1m long. That is 185.3949 tons per metre. If this new titan has a similar density, and is 40m high, it would be (40*185.3949) 7415.795 tons.
Maybe they forgot a '0' making it 10,000 tons. Or it's made from wood.
The BattleTech Kickstarter will be here soon. The BattleTech Kickstarter will be here soon. The BattleTech Kickstarter will be here soon.
*rocks back and forth*
The models are in scale. Somehow, somewhere these games need to meet.
Doesn't seem that fair. An Atlas assault mech is 11ish meters tall and 100 tons. Roughly the same size as a Questoris Knight. Maybe if all the proper titans were bust dueling with dropships and letting the knights deal with the battlemechs?
It's moot anyway because Battletech doesn't have shields. A skilled MechWarrior could probably take a Knight as long as they can avoid getting hit, but they've got nothing to deal with Titans. Maybe Long Toms and PPCs could chip at void shields but I don't see any of the rest of a mech's standard weapons making a scratch. I would love to see an Elemental fight a Marine. That must be a classic nerd argument, right?
schoon wrote: Has there been any previous fluff on the Krius Grav Imploder?
...any 40K equivalent that might give any hints?
Sounds like the old conversion beam projector aka conversion beamer. Its gimmick was that the more massive its target was, the more likely it was to suffer damage (which I think translated as "always wounds on a 3+ regardless of Toughness, and ignores armour"). It also made a bigger blast at more distant targets.
Re: the weight of Titans ... I always assumed they had suspensors built into them. Those anti-gravity stud things that make objects lighter. Like the ones in Space Crusade that let your Marines with heavy weapons move as fast as the guys with bolters.
It would help to explain why Titans don't crash through the street and into the sewers every time they take a step.
Honestly, this game is fantastic. It's a blast to play, decisions such as rotation and range matter, as well as managing your reactor and the damage you take in various subsystems, and the models themselves are a joy to put together and are all designed for magnetization of parts.
Rules-wise, I think Titanicus is one of GW's best games, and the models being awesome helps a lot. The only thing that hinders it is the price point, but thankfully the Loyalist Legios book covers a LOT of the rules that were printed elsewhere, so that + Core is really all you need to get going. Traitor Legios will be out eventually, I'm sure.
Join us. You know it is the correct course of action. You know Epic is coming...
As someone who has always enjoyed the world building aspect of this hobby, I've never been more over the moon because at this scale my lazy ass feels down right productive because it feels like building and painting is like 4x the speed.
This was the board at the starts of the last game, then the board at the end of the last game
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As far as terrain this game is heaven, from the gw modular kits right to all he amazing third party designers
H.B.M.C. wrote:I love the Adeptus Titanicus terrain.
No! Stop! Don't tempt me Frodo!!!
What was it that Isildur said again?
Zenithfleet wrote:Re: the weight of Titans ... I always assumed they had suspensors built into them. Those anti-gravity stud things that make objects lighter. Like the ones in Space Crusade that let your Marines with heavy weapons move as fast as the guys with bolters.
It would help to explain why Titans don't crash through the street and into the sewers every time they take a step.
I agree - The weight thing of Titans is either hopelessly misinformed or a sign of much greater understanding! Let me explain.. if you think even a Tiger Tank in WW2 weighed about 60 tonnes. There were plans in WW2 to make a Panzer VIII 'Maus' which was absolutely huge, apparently well over 150 tonnes. There were reports that the thing was cracking through roads, collapsing pipes and things like that under the ground when being tested and in all likelihood it probably wouldn't have been properly deployable in the threatre of war.
So, if you had something that weighed many times that, with the weight focussed through it's feet, how would it operate without immediately sinking to its knees?
In fact even the concept of something weighing hundreds of tonnes moving on two articulated legs I think is pretty difficult to imagine. So perhaps either some kind of very advanced alloys (super high tensile strength with very low weight) or else some kind of magic-tech (suspensors, or other gravity defying device) would be the only way to explain it?
Sherrypie wrote: Crablezworth, while your stuff is awesome, you need more craters for crushed buildings and dead titans
Dead titans yes, craters no, too much topography, already have problems with the train track and landing pads, agree it'd look cooler for pics but it plays cleaner to just pull stuff out of the titans way. I didn't see a little car when I moved a reaver and it almost fell over lol
But agreed on dead titans, got so many extra heads and armour, just need some more body parts.
It's definitely based on it, just did like a mechanicum forge version of it. I did to a slurm factory though
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SamusDrake wrote: You never cease to amaze us, Crablezworth. Great work as always.
Aww thanks guy
Bringing it back to the iconoclast, I wonder if one of the ccw's has a different range than the other two, partly because of size, like the sword arm is pretty damn big, but also they mention the other weapon having a secondary build option around grav. So maybe all or some of it's cc will be longer than the usual 2 inches.
Rumour doing the rounds that Adeptus Titanicus will be getting the boot after next year. It was over on 4Chan, so it may or may not have any weight to it. It does resonate with my gut feeling that( at least this edition ) is being wrapped up but to what end I don't know. Is there a chance that Titanicus will give way to Battle Fleet Gothic or another game?
The next big release is of course Traitor Legios, along with the new Warmaster variant. Could see a Knight Force bundle with Acherons & Castigators thrown in, and I have a strong feeling that the Asterius will be handed over to Forgeworld.
A Knight Force bundle is all I can hope for right now as I can revise my traitor legio into a House with titan support. However, if they release a plastic Asterius kit with its own, revised rules( none of that stupid auxilary banner crap ) then I might be tempted back into the game with renewed enthusiasim...
Rumour doing the rounds that Adeptus Titanicus will be getting the boot after next year. It was over on 4Chan, so it may or may not have any weight to it. It does resonate with my gut feeling that( at least this edition ) is being wrapped up but to what end I don't know. Is there a chance that Titanicus will give way to Battle Fleet Gothic or another game?
The next big release is of course Traitor Legios, along with the new Warmaster variant. Could see a Knight Force bundle with Acherons & Castigators thrown in, and I have a strong feeling that the Asterius will be handed over to Forgeworld.
A Knight Force bundle is all I can hope for right now as I can revise my traitor legio into a House with titan support. However, if they release a plastic Asterius kit with its own, revised rules( none of that stupid auxilary banner crap ) then I might be tempted back into the game with renewed enthusiasim...
I got my head bitten off on facebook for even entertaining the rumour. But ya, it is somewhat believeable, 16 months is a long time though, but that's just it, other than traitor book, corrupted knights/titans and asterius there isn't much on the horizion.
Back in the day I did some random rough calcs on bearing pressures required to walk on some earth type surfaces. Happy for others to challenge, as I didn’t get anyone to really check my calcs
For a war hound, a foot area of about 50sq.m is enough for it.to.walk on silt, which is pretty squishy.
According to wikipedia an abrams also.exerts a ground pressure of about 100kN/square.m, or about the carrying capacity of.silt, which seems reasonable as it's designed to move over soft ground.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_pressure
Apparently Abrams tracks have a contact area of about 13sq.m, so it’s ground pressure is in the same.order of magnitude as a war hound foot.
Allowing for dynamic impact while it runs, etc it.might need a bigger footprint to reduce the pressures sufficiently to match a relatively static HGV or tank.
I got my head bitten off on facebook for even entertaining the rumour. But ya, it is somewhat believeable
I'd believe a 2nd edition or post-heresy xenos expansion rumour over the game being dropped altogether. AT has been incredibly successful and there's still a ton on untapped potential before they even consider Epic.
Plus, so much BS gets posted on 4chan that at best it's a great way to work out what's not going to happen
Sad, but believable. Game lines mature and there must be some diminishing returns as they release the more obscure titan types beyond the classic 3. Even if it is profitable the guys at the top will be thinking "can we make more profit from the same resources?" A second edition, now with Great Gargants? Or a new 'old' game like Battlefleet Gothic? Or is the developmental budget going to be funneled towards 'The Old World?'
I got my head bitten off on facebook for even entertaining the rumour. But ya, it is somewhat believeable
I'd believe a 2nd edition or post-heresy xenos expansion rumour over the game being dropped altogether. AT has been incredibly successful and there's still a ton on untapped potential before they even consider Epic.
Plus, so much BS gets posted on 4chan that at best it's a great way to work out what's not going to happen
I thought that rumour set was mostly rubbished as fake - but we will see when the last two codex of the year are released- those rumours say Nids and Guard the other rumours say Custodes and GSC.
I'd be disappointed if they ended AT without adding in Xenos forces, unless they go into Epic, which would be great as they'd have the imperial/chaos titans and air assets for a good few factions already.
Honestly, I usually can't really understand the need for continual releases on many games. If a game is done, there's no need for more stuff. There is also no need to toss it into the bin, you can keep it up as an evergreen line if there's interest. Many boardgames are like that, and it's a positive in my book.
Honestly, I usually can't really understand the need for continual releases on many games. If a game is done, there's no need for more stuff. There is also no need to toss it into the bin, you can keep it up as an evergreen line if there's interest. Many boardgames are like that, and it's a positive in my book.
Not in the industry, but I've heard (mostly here) that its all about return on investment on the production side. Most of the sales come very shortly after release then falls as most of the interested people now have "enough", or at least are into slow unit by unit expansion, as does the attention as people then shift to the next cool attention grabbing thing. So spending shipping, packing, and labor effort on keeping an older game available with no new releases then just doesn't give the profit for a given investment as tossing out an expansion or a new game, and you've got fixed labor and real estate and such costs. I know Dreamforged posted on here where he was kinda caught in a cycle where he just couldn't quite bring in enough to do a new expansion, and eventually as the long tail kept sloping down, hit the point where he couldn't get enough up front for a new print run off the old one.
Not sure how board games avoid it, though. Possibly being mostly printed meaning lower fixed and minimum reorder costs or a larger total audience?
You're mixing GW with everyone else. GW's sales are weighted towards the release because GW has trained their customers for that. That's not the case for every other company, and in most cases release sales are higher but they don't peter out quite as fast, by a long shot.
I could see them ending AT and starting a new game built off the back of it. AT is basically early civil war era. We don't even have any Chaos Corruption.
I could see AT ending and a new titan game being birthed in a new age. They'd just port the Imperial titans over and start releasing Chaos Corrupted titans.
There's a huge wealth of chaos and xenos potential releases they could do to generate continued sales within the game. Meanwhile they can advance the storyline and the titans remain valid because they basically are semi-immortal warmachines.
changemod wrote: A "complete game" with one faction and only mirror matches? Okay...
Yeah, imagine that. A game with identical sides (no list building, literally the same army every time), only one objective, fixed deployment, and fixed terrain. There’s no way that could possibly be popular.
Well they could release Eldar titans, Ork titans, Tyranid giant beasts and Necron Titans......just saying the Horus Hersey eras AT could be complete, but they could use the models alongside xenon releases. They could also release periodic house updates to keep the main system relevant while doing so. Revisit it all with a second edition in a few years time.
Theophony wrote: Well they could release Eldar titans, Ork titans, Tyranid giant beasts and Necron Titans......just saying the Horus Hersey eras AT could be complete, but they could use the models alongside xenon releases. They could also release periodic house updates to keep the main system relevant while doing so. Revisit it all with a second edition in a few years time.
"Could" and "need to" are two different things. They did, too, back in the day, as full on expansions.
Overread wrote: I could see them ending AT and starting a new game built off the back of it. AT is basically early civil war era. We don't even have any Chaos Corruption.
I could see AT ending and a new titan game being birthed in a new age. They'd just port the Imperial titans over and start releasing Chaos Corrupted titans.
There's a huge wealth of chaos and xenos potential releases they could do to generate continued sales within the game. Meanwhile they can advance the storyline and the titans remain valid because they basically are semi-immortal warmachines.
We have no reason to think that they won’t release the two remaining ‘tweener Titans and at least one Corrupted Titan. They’ve already started laying the rules groundwork for Corrupted Titans. The 4chan rumors read like they come from someone who reads forum blather and isn’t
actually engaged with the game. And it’s 4chan.
I agree that it’s conceivable that AT: HH could be heading toward completion as a concept and that we could see AT:??, a new setting. My guess is that it’d be to include xenos and maybe a Scouring or Beast Arises setting.
changemod wrote: A "complete game" with one faction and only mirror matches? Okay...
Right, that's never happened before.
It's been a mirror match game for 3 years, and it's better for it tbh. It's also got one blessing, when gw releases utter crap weapons, everyone can immediately point out how bad they are (volkite).
Overread wrote: I could see them ending AT and starting a new game built off the back of it. AT is basically early civil war era. We don't even have any Chaos Corruption.
I could see AT ending and a new titan game being birthed in a new age. They'd just port the Imperial titans over and start releasing Chaos Corrupted titans.
There's a huge wealth of chaos and xenos potential releases they could do to generate continued sales within the game. Meanwhile they can advance the storyline and the titans remain valid because they basically are semi-immortal warmachines.
We have no reason to think that they won’t release the two remaining ‘tweener Titans and at least one Corrupted Titan. They’ve already started laying the rules groundwork for Corrupted Titans. The 4chan rumors read like they come from someone who reads forum blather and isn’t
actually engaged with the game. And it’s 4chan.
I agree that it’s conceivable that AT: HH could be heading toward completion as a concept and that we could see AT:??, a new setting. My guess is that it’d be to include xenos and maybe a Scouring or Beast Arises setting.
I think the rumour is quite possible given what we know of what has yet to be released. So you got traitor book, corrupted titans and knights and possibly another titan, that's not exactly a dense 16 month release schedule. So ya, I could see it ending in dec 2022. To your point, that could just be the beginning of adding other factions and a new edition or somethin else.
The 4chan """leak""" is contradicted by the BaC one, so we'll know soon enough if it's rubbish.
Considering Titanicus hasn't even had Corrupted Titans yet, which they can easily milk for quite a few release cycles, I doubt it'd be ending anytime soon even if they planned to wind down.
Well, they could just pull the plug if the game has been some financial disaster like the 4chan rumors claim. But anyone engaged with the game knows that’s pretty darn unlikely.
So yeah, it seems unlikely that they’re super-eager to end it ASAP. They’ve talked publicly about the tweener Titans and how many chassis they had in development. The Rapier in particular almost has to happen giving how they’re seeding their books with references. We’re almost certainly getting Corrupted Titans and Knights from the rules groundwork already laid.
And if you look at the rate of AT releases, that amount of stuff suggests at least two years, if not more.
Lets face it we don't get many leaks these days; yet the whole leak culture has persisted and a lot of people abuse it. Asides what starts out as a few friends chatting turns into a rumour into a leak into something SpikyBitz "Reports" on etc...
Overread wrote: Lets face it we don't get many leaks these days; yet the whole leak culture has persisted and a lot of people abuse it. Asides what starts out as a few friends chatting turns into a rumour into a leak into something SpikyBitz "Reports" on etc...
The community has a whole seems a lot more accepting of supposed leaks than they used to be. It feels like ever since that one Grimdark Live leak about Dominion was largely true every 4chan anon and Reddit """BIG INTERNAL LEAK!!!" gets tossed around as a genuine rumour when not long ago they'd have been laughed off and rightfully so.
Ironically I saw more scepticism and dismissal of the BaC leaks than anything else recently just because it mentioned Squats, despite the person's proven record.
If Blood Bowl is still a thing, then Titanicus will remain a thing. I know BB has a lot of die-hard fans, but there are whole portions of America where the game just isn't touched. On top of that, GW has broken records for profits hand over fist, even during a pandemic. They can afford to put a bit more effort into their side games to give them a chance to find their market and grow. A big part of that is training their store staff to sell things other than 40k.
From some managers I've talked to, it's actually a bit of a problem, where store managers will only sell 40k because it's the only thing they know and they know it sells, so they don't even bother learning other game systems other than the talking points that are hammered into their head during sales training sessions.
Chopstick wrote: The resin stuff for this game sold out constantly and somehow it's financial disaster? come on now this is rubbish.
Model wise, I doubt they've had no problems but the game itself is demanding in special dice and card terminals. I reckon that Adeptus Titanicus will at least be given a major overhaul to reduce the "bits" required.
Games might be cancelled because of insufficient profits; because of politics; because of key staff not being available*; insufficient production slots;
And a myriad of other things. Most things GW makes sell and likely sell at profit; however how much profit when measured against other aspects is important. It might be AT generates healthy profit, but that GW could invest that money into something else and generate more profit easily.
Or perhaps its lost some key staff and rebuilding it as a team would cost etc....
*they might be on other projects; might leave the company; they might be on medical leave etc....
My memory may be 100% wrong. But I thought that E:A was primarily a rules reboot in the form of a PDF...that the miniatures were mostly/all "leftovers" from Epic 40K. I don't remember continuing support in the form of campaign books, new plastic miniatures support, or the kind of mainstream marketing push that Blood Bowl, Necromunda, AT, etc. get today.
Games might be cancelled because of insufficient profits; because of politics; because of key staff not being available*; insufficient production slots;
And a myriad of other things. Most things GW makes sell and likely sell at profit; however how much profit when measured against other aspects is important. It might be AT generates healthy profit, but that GW could invest that money into something else and generate more profit easily.
Or perhaps its lost some key staff and rebuilding it as a team would cost etc....
*they might be on other projects; might leave the company; they might be on medical leave etc....
Or it's just finished, and they don't want to add anything to it. Or that adding to it would take it further and further away from what it was when it began, and they would rather avoid such concept-drift.
As someone who was there in the commercial game industry at the time, Epic collapsed under a large number of Stock Units, where the sales per unit were relatively low.
GW "fixed" that with the current offering with one small set of minis for all sides and keeping inventory of products low.
For the old game, the warning signs were there that sales vs. inventory and retail space were a problem. For the new one, not so much (at this time anyway).
While it's true that GW can be capricious in deciding what stays or goes, I have not seen anything that signals the end of this game line.
There seems to be a lot of obvious things to add from fortifications to chaos titans and that's without crossing the line into Xenos or tanks and infantry. Even adding Leviathans and the like would keep this the same game more or less.
schoon wrote: From a purely financial standpoint, I don't see GW "closing" the AT book while its still selling well.
I could see them doing a second edition though.
That’s when I can see Epic coming in.
Simplify the rules for the Titans and limit their number in a given force. Launch with an army frame (Marines, Rhinos, Land Raiders etc)
This is the only format I can imagine Epic happening in - very limited scope, perhaps just focussed on marines fighting marines (going back to the first edition Space Marine/Horus Heresy roots).
I don't think the more 'generic' Epic is possible simply because of the amount of SKU lines it would entail, production capacity, all the sculpting etc. it would be a tall order for a 'specialist game' or one-and-done release.
But the cynic in me says they won't release things like Land Raider tank companies for £35 for a box say, when people are already paying double that for 28mm scale and then buying 8 of them! Despite how much better game mechanics and the look of the game itself work for Super Heavies/tank companies and the like at that scale.
I also don't want them to feth up the rules and ruin the existing community
gorgon wrote: My memory may be 100% wrong. But I thought that E:A was primarily a rules reboot in the form of a PDF...that the miniatures were mostly/all "leftovers" from Epic 40K. I don't remember continuing support in the form of campaign books, new plastic miniatures support, or the kind of mainstream marketing push that Blood Bowl, Necromunda, AT, etc. get today.
But...I could definitely be in error.
You most def are wrong as orks, marines, eldar and ig got new models as well. Chaos was coming next until it got axed.
(epic a was time when marines got for example modern looking rhino's, land raiders and variants. Orks got for example lander and mega stompa, eldar new smallest titan variant,flyer and super heavies etc)
gorgon wrote: My memory may be 100% wrong. But I thought that E:A was primarily a rules reboot in the form of a PDF...that the miniatures were mostly/all "leftovers" from Epic 40K. I don't remember continuing support in the form of campaign books, new plastic miniatures support, or the kind of mainstream marketing push that Blood Bowl, Necromunda, AT, etc. get today.
But...I could definitely be in error.
You most def are wrong as orks, marines, eldar and ig got new models as well. Chaos was coming next until it got axed.
(epic a was time when marines got for example modern looking rhino's, land raiders and variants. Orks got for example lander and mega stompa, eldar new smallest titan variant,flyer and super heavies etc)
I seem to remember everything being sold through FW. Did they get released anywhere else?
lord_blackfang wrote: It was actually GW main, all metal stuff outside the flyers, which were appropriated from Aeronautica, iirc.
Ah, I remember now. It was actually Specialist Games. Those were mail order only, we weren't allowed to have them in the store (I was a red shirt at the time). That's why I misremembered it being FW.
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tneva82 wrote: Resin in fw, plastic and metal(like rhino's, land raiders etc. Most of new stuff was metal) in gw store.
I think that was not the case outside UK stores. At least over here in Spain.
But at the time it was true of all of Epic, of course. E:A was never sold in stores over here, it was only ordered.
I don't think the more 'generic' Epic is possible simply because of the amount of SKU lines it would entail, production capacity, all the sculpting etc. it would be a tall order for a 'specialist game' or one-and-done release.
Epic is one of those games that are uniquely suited to an company-in-a-box approach.
I'd wager you could service most factions with an infantry company, armoured company and an aircraft detachment.
Would it force people to buy more stuff to min-max their armies? Yeah. Ask GW if that's a problem they don't want to deal with.
gorgon wrote: My memory may be 100% wrong. But I thought that E:A was primarily a rules reboot in the form of a PDF...that the miniatures were mostly/all "leftovers" from Epic 40K. I don't remember continuing support in the form of campaign books, new plastic miniatures support, or the kind of mainstream marketing push that Blood Bowl, Necromunda, AT, etc. get today.
But...I could definitely be in error.
You most def are wrong as orks, marines, eldar and ig got new models as well. Chaos was coming next until it got axed.
(epic a was time when marines got for example modern looking rhino's, land raiders and variants. Orks got for example lander and mega stompa, eldar new smallest titan variant,flyer and super heavies etc)
I think you're confusing Epic 40k (circa 1996 or 7) which had a starter box and models in stores, and Epic Armageddon (circa 2001?) which was Specialist Games and had some metal models but mostly resold Epic 40k models.
There was an okay amount of new stuff, including all the modern vehicle resculpts, as tneva said. Price point was fairly high for the time, tho, like 12 quid for 3-4 tanks.
No i'm not. I got into epic with epic a. I was playing it during playtesting already. One of my questions is in faq in rulebook. Epic 40k rhinoswere old rhino style in plastlc. Epic armageddon ones werb currnt mars pattern in metal.
Revenant titans in Epic 40k were lot less sleek than epic a ones. No supa-stompa existed in epic 40k. And landa was epic a invention.
Did epic a use lots of old models? Yes. But it also got brand new models. Attached old one and ones that arrived with swordwind supplement.
My memory of it was that some new miniatures got sculpted for E:A - remember them being in WD at the time. They had some quite cool elements with the metal modular tanks that let you mix and match different chassic and turret combinations.
Army-range wise though it was quite limited as you had those races that were directly involved in Armageddon initially, plus then the Eldar when the Swordwind expansion came along.
I would also say though it was probably the 'smallest' Epic version release in terms of amount of new miniatures, coverage, and accessibility to miniatures. I still remember the heady days when about 1/3 of a GW store wall was covered with Epic miniatures after the 2nd Edition Space Marine box came out!
Yea the # of kits wasn't as big as say 40k. Sg studlo had limited resources and had multiple games to suppoit. They also released brand new models for bfg, bb, inquisitor, necromunda etc.
The one warzone at time was solution to that. Rather than thin even further focus on couple factions at time. First marines, orks and ig, then at swordwind eldar, feral orks and ig siege regiments all which got new models with them. Next one would have been chaos one but alas it never got past playtest stage
Epic: A had a ton of new releases. The only largely re-used range were the Imperial Guard (Orks to a lesser extent) who were the 3rd edition pieces, glued together and recast (they even glued the tracks backwards on the Hydra). The Guard range was poor in terms of quality. Marines, Eldar and Orks had largely new miniatures with Baran Siegemasters and Feral Orks being a lot of new sculpts.
They had Chaos, Blood Angel and Black Templar ranges sculpted ready to go before the plug was pulled due to not Specialist Games not making as much money that they could if they instead invested in all effort into 40k.
zedmeister wrote: They had Chaos, Blood Angel and Black Templar ranges sculpted ready to go before the plug was pulled due to not Specialist Games not making as much money that they could if they instead invested in all effort into 40k.
I'm sure the fact that you could not buy them (or see them, actually) at the stores had nothing to do with the profitability of the game, no siree ^^.
Well more to them not selling marine level. Game was profitable though. Nobody greenlights project they expect to be non-profitable and epic a sold 400% own expectations gw had forit
tneva82 wrote: Well more to them not selling marine level. Game was profitable though. Nobody greenlights project they expect to be non-profitable and epic a sold 400% own expectations gw had forit
What I mean is, at least outside the UK, that the main problem is that the Specialist Games basically ceased to exist because they were neither promoted, nor played (or allowed to play, we had a Battle Bunker and the company didn't let us lend tables for Specialist Games), nor carried at the official GW stores, only through mail orders.
And even so, they still sold. One can only imagine what could have happened if they still had allowed us to promote them, or play them at stores, or order them for people.
tneva82 wrote: Nobody greenlights project they expect to be non-profitable and epic a sold 400% own expectations gw had forit
You might greenlight projects that you don't expect to be profitable but buy you good will and don't cost you much.
Likewise you might axe profitable projects if the investment is greater than what you want for the return, or you want your company to head in a different direction.
I'd be surprised if WHFB wasn't profitable in and of itself, but it was consuming valuable shelf space with the large and unwieldy range and GW wanted to head in a different direction that they felt could make them more money, so it was killed.
zedmeister wrote: They had Chaos, Blood Angel and Black Templar ranges sculpted ready to go before the plug was pulled due to not Specialist Games not making as much money that they could if they instead invested in all effort into 40k.
I'm sure the fact that you could not buy them (or see them, actually) at the stores had nothing to do with the profitability of the game, no siree ^^.
They did actually run an experiment in the early 2000's with BFG to see how well it'd sell. They marketed it and sold it through their stores. They came to the conclusion that they'd get more if they spent the effort selling 40k.
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tneva82 wrote: Well more to them not selling marine level. Game was profitable though. Nobody greenlights project they expect to be non-profitable and epic a sold 400% own expectations gw had forit
Another aspect they didn't bank on was competitors moving in to fill the market left by GW. Mordheim, BFG, Necromunda, Epic etc were replaced with varying games from other companies. I think GW realised that investing in those games kept a cashflow that wouldn't be used on 40k or AoS and that keeping people in the GW ecosystem has its benefits....
zedmeister wrote: Epic: A had a ton of new releases. The only largely re-used range were the Imperial Guard (Orks to a lesser extent) who were the 3rd edition pieces, glued together and recast (they even glued the tracks backwards on the Hydra). The Guard range was poor in terms of quality. Marines, Eldar and Orks had largely new miniatures with Baran Siegemasters and Feral Orks being a lot of new sculpts.
On the subject of quality, I had read that the SG range was mostly sculpted by trainee sculptors at the time - which meant that the quality was quite variable with some of the releases (Blood Bowl, Necromunda etc as well). Although I think for 6mm scale it was mostly fine, with just a few miniatures (such as the Phantom titan) not quite working and were not as good as the previous model they replaced.
zedmeister wrote: They had Chaos, Blood Angel and Black Templar ranges sculpted ready to go before the plug was pulled due to not Specialist Games not making as much money that they could if they instead invested in all effort into 40k.
I'm sure the fact that you could not buy them (or see them, actually) at the stores had nothing to do with the profitability of the game, no siree ^^.
They did actually run an experiment in the early 2000's with BFG to see how well it'd sell. They marketed it and sold it through their stores. They came to the conclusion that they'd get more if they spent the effort selling 40k.
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tneva82 wrote: Well more to them not selling marine level. Game was profitable though. Nobody greenlights project they expect to be non-profitable and epic a sold 400% own expectations gw had forit
Another aspect they didn't bank on was competitors moving in to fill the market left by GW. Mordheim, BFG, Necromunda, Epic etc were replaced with varying games from other companies. I think GW realised that investing in those games kept a cashflow that wouldn't be used on 40k or AoS and that keeping people in the GW ecosystem has its benefits....
Yeah there was certainly a GW phase where they were following the money and that was very much 40K and very much Marines. Thing is I think it was also born of a system that only looked at the numbers and not the context or customer feedback or anything. So it was a blinkered approach that, short term worked, but long term was bleeding them games and customers and creating a very active pool to allow their competitors to rise up and and thrive. Esp as certain technologies of casting (and now printing) and means to bring models to the market have evolved over the years.
Epic Armageddon also coincided with the rise of eBay as a massive player and old Epic stuff was plentiful and cheap then. My best snag was 70+ battlewagons for around 10€ shipped. I bet GW sales lagged far behind the game's actual popularity.
zedmeister wrote: Epic: A had a ton of new releases. The only largely re-used range were the Imperial Guard (Orks to a lesser extent) who were the 3rd edition pieces, glued together and recast (they even glued the tracks backwards on the Hydra). The Guard range was poor in terms of quality. Marines, Eldar and Orks had largely new miniatures with Baran Siegemasters and Feral Orks being a lot of new sculpts.
On the subject of quality, I had read that the SG range was mostly sculpted by trainee sculptors at the time - which meant that the quality was quite variable with some of the releases (Blood Bowl, Necromunda etc as well). Although I think for 6mm scale it was mostly fine, with just a few miniatures (such as the Phantom titan) not quite working and were not as good as the previous model they replaced.
It was a mixture if I remember. Trainee sculpts, lunchtime sculpts and Mark Bedford wants to sculpt this...
lord_blackfang wrote: Epic Armageddon also coincided with the rise of eBay as a massive player and old Epic stuff was plentiful and cheap then. My best snag was 70+ battlewagons for around 10€ shipped. I bet GW sales lagged far behind the game's actual popularity.
This was also the time of Lord of the rings coming out soon. It was also the beginning of the Kirbyism era of churn and burn, world domination, one birthday and one Christmas then ship little Tommy off to a game club and get little Timmy 7.8 mom's credit card into 40k.
The other game systems made profit but not enough profit for gw to pay healthy dividends to shareholders. That was GW's mission statement at the time pay out as big of a dividend as possible as the largest single shareholder of GW stock was Mr. Kirby. Whodathunkedit eh?
So what did GW do? Nuke the SG division and all those same customers will gladly spend that money on 40k and fantasy right?
I really wish epic didn't die, I'd love to get back into epic but no way at the going 2nd hand market rate.
I think GW will dump AT eventually, sooner rather than later. Milk the whales for as long as possible then bring out another new shiney that the whales will swallow hook line and sinker.
lord_blackfang wrote: Epic Armageddon also coincided with the rise of eBay as a massive player and old Epic stuff was plentiful and cheap then. My best snag was 70+ battlewagons for around 10€ shipped. I bet GW sales lagged far behind the game's actual popularity.
Well if 400% over gw's own expectations(themselves enough to be profitable) is lagging imagine what non-lagging is
Arbitrator wrote: The 4chan """leak""" is contradicted by the BaC one, so we'll know soon enough if it's rubbish.
Considering Titanicus hasn't even had Corrupted Titans yet, which they can easily milk for quite a few release cycles, I doubt it'd be ending anytime soon even if they planned to wind down.
Some person goes on 4chan of all places and claims all this stuff, and I'm amazed at how many people have been eating it up.
I stand corrected on my previous statement. Which might have been colored by the fact that all my Epic Tyranid models were pre-E:A. I remember seeing previews of a updated Harridan model based on the 40K sized FW kit, but I don't think it ever made it to market...? Seems like it was a case of mileage varying depending on your army.
Albertorius wrote: What I mean is, at least outside the UK, that the main problem is that the Specialist Games basically ceased to exist because they were neither promoted, nor played (or allowed to play, we had a Battle Bunker and the company didn't let us lend tables for Specialist Games), nor carried at the official GW stores, only through mail orders.
And even so, they still sold. One can only imagine what could have happened if they still had allowed us to promote them, or play them at stores, or order them for people.
Regarding this statement...it's hard to know for sure. I fully agree that E:A was largely hidden from the eyes of prospective new 40K players. But some products have more mass appeal than others. I think Epic 40K was their attempt at taking Epic to new audiences, but it seemed to fail at doing that even as it turned off veteran Epic players. And then IIRC (obviously I may not have though) E:A was developed with a lot of feedback from Epic veterans. It may be that much of the target audience for E:A was at that point highly engaged vets who would be able to find it even in the dark corners of the GW/FW sites. It may have been something that wouldn't scale up if marketed to more customers.
And yes...some of the SG sculpts from that era will made you shudder.
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Togusa wrote: Some person goes on 4chan of all places and claims all this stuff, and I'm amazed at how many people have been eating it up.
Yeah. I think there are definitely SG players waiting for the rug to be pulled out from under them. They aren't ready to believe in GW's continuing support for these games. Some of that is due to GW's past behavior, but some of it is also due to Debbie Downers spreading their negativity. If you want fictional 'scoops' to get traction, starting with "GW is killing off...." is a pretty good place to start.
As interesting as it is to hear about the history of Epic (I mean that sincerely, I had just started getting into 40k around that time so I missed out, and it's the SG I most want GW to revive...),
but on the Titanicus front, can the game really be considered "complete" given the 8 or so new titan variants/classes that have either been described or name dropped in various recent lore?
I know they don't have the nostalgic appeal of the classics but I doubt GW allowed their literary creation without at least considering future Titanicus releases.
And that's before mentioning any of the other things people have already brought up like Emperor Titans and Chaos variants or even the Knight Dominus (and I hope the Armiger).
Epic 40k is fantastic! It and warmaster are the best rule sets ever published by GW!
Regarding AT, considering that LOTR is the only specialist game that GW has not at some point completely abandoned, I think its safe to say AT's future looks pretty grim. Especially so because through my lens anyway, battletech is becoming increasingly popular and accomplishes everything AT does at a fraction of the price.
The AT rules rock. The models i can appreciate, but are not my cup of tea. But I would choose a game of battletech over AT any day.
Jack Flask wrote: As interesting as it is to hear about the history of Epic (I mean that sincerely, I had just started getting into 40k around that time so I missed out, and it's the SG I most want GW to revive...),
but on the Titanicus front, can the game really be considered "complete" given the 8 or so new titan variants/classes that have either been described or name dropped in various recent lore?
I know they don't have the nostalgic appeal of the classics but I doubt GW allowed their literary creation without at least considering future Titanicus releases.
And that's before mentioning any of the other things people have already brought up like Emperor Titans and Chaos variants or even the Knight Dominus (and I hope the Armiger).
Much earlier in this thread we have public comments from the studio that mentioned six(?) additional Titan chassis beyond the original three. Another set specifically mentioned four 'tweener chassis, two of which we've received. I don't know that some fluff mentions mean all those chassis/variants will happen, but the studio has publicly mentioned more chassis that we haven't seen yet. That's why I said that if the game is done by the end of next year, we're probably in for a great 2022.
gorgon wrote: I stand corrected on my previous statement. Which might have been colored by the fact that all my Epic Tyranid models were pre-E:A. I remember seeing previews of a updated Harridan model based on the 40K sized FW kit, but I don't think it ever made it to market...? Seems like it was a case of mileage varying depending on your army.
The harridan did indeed make it to market and was on Forgeworld site for a few years. Here’s a sad tale: FW originally intended to release resin 6mm equivalents for their 40k line. Until they had an accident involving a bunch of 6mm tyranid masters. Whilst trying new techniques, they managed to destroy their new hierophant and hierodule masters. This put a hold to all future FW Epic releases. They even had a bunch of updated resin 6mm marines ready to go until the incident.
I personally think the game was complete when the original three were all out! Everything else is a welcome extra, but an extra.
Personally I don't think AT would work particularly well as the foundation of a new Epic, or even with Xenos titans, as the rules are veeery tied into how Imperial Titans function. I'd rather not see basically multiple different rulesets running concurrently on the table to cover different unit types and only really interacting with each other when resolving attacks. Epic would work better as a new ruleset entirely, less detailed to allow a wider scope.
lord_blackfang wrote: I personally think the game was complete when the original three were all out! Everything else is a welcome extra, but an extra.
Personally I don't think AT would work particularly well as the foundation of a new Epic, or even with Xenos titans, as the rules are veeery tied into how Imperial Titans function. I'd rather not see basically multiple rulesets running on the table only really interacting with each other when resolving attacks. Epic would work better as a new ruleset entirely, less detailed to allow a wider scope.
Agreed, it's also obvious after a few games that it's biggest limitation is alternating activation, like it's a game that screams more may not be better from the start. When explaining to friends that it doesn't scale up like 30k and megabattles are difficult because of the nature of activation, I constantly get a "What would you know" vibe from the very people who have never played it but also think it's like 90% epic when it's really not. "It will be great when they add tanks and infantry" is a common thing you hear, well, there are infantry, titan hunter infantry, and they already exist to show you how out of whack activations can become, for example, if I were to take 2 units of titan hunter infantry in a battlegroup, I'm adding literally 4 extra activations per turn that will never go away. You end up with a tail end effect, at least in the combat phase, where alternating activation loses its purpose because one side has a bunch of activations left to do, one after the other. I get people want AT to be epic, but it isn't.
gorgon wrote: I stand corrected on my previous statement. Which might have been colored by the fact that all my Epic Tyranid models were pre-E:A. I remember seeing previews of a updated Harridan model based on the 40K sized FW kit, but I don't think it ever made it to market...? Seems like it was a case of mileage varying depending on your army.
Edit: Ninja'd more accurately by zedmeister! Oh well, I'll leave my reply up anyway to cover the GW side of things.
Yes, as other posters have said, Epic Armageddon focused on 'one warzone at a time'. Partly to keep the scope of the project manageable, but also I believe because Jervis Johnson thought it might make the game more appealing. Unfortunately Specialist Games never got around to a setting featuring Tyranids, or much Chaos, so little or nothing from those two ranges was rereleased in the E:A years. Those two armies were worth $$$ on the secondhand market during the Fanatic and Specialist Games years even while old Marine, Ork and (to a lesser extent) Guard armies were dirt cheap.
(Epic history stuff in spoiler tags as it's a bit off topic)
Spoiler:
In the Epic 40,000 Magazine articles when he was playtesting Epic Armageddon, Jervis pondered why Epic 40K had proven unpopular whereas Battlefleet Gothic had been a hit, even though they both used pretty much the same ruleset and streamlined unit types. JJ thought that BFG had grabbed players by setting the game in a detailed, specific conflict (the Gothic War) with lots of fluffy stories about named ships; it kept the units from feeling like generic statlines. By contrast, Epic 40K's fluff took a very zoomed-out, generic approach that just summarised the armies and races in a couple of paragraphs and directed you to 40K codexes for more background.
So Epic Armageddon ended up being set in a specific conflict (Armageddon, duh, versus da Orks) and the main forces for the initial launch of that edition were Marines, Guard and Orks. Later they released a Swordwind supplement about a specific Eldar Craftworld's campaigns (Biel-Tan), and we got some spiffy new Eldar sculpts.
The problem was that IIRC there were seven big-name army ranges back in the day: Marines, Guard, Squats, Orks, Eldar, Chaos and Tyranids. Six of these were available by the end of 2nd ed Epic, with Tyranids being the last ones introduced because they didn't really get fully fleshed out as a faction until the Titan Legions / late 2nd ed 40K period thanks to Andy Chambers's makeover job. Squats dropped out because of the great Squattening, same as 40K, but the six surviving factions were rereleased over the course of a few months when Epic 40K came out, although Chaos got delayed and only part of the range made it to shelves--just an army box deal, I think, with no Titans--because Epic 3rd ed was already crashing and burning by then.
(NB: The mix-and-match tank designs with swappable tracks and turrets and whatnot were from the Epic 40K release, not the later Epic A release. Epic 40K's Eldar Revenant Titans weren't either of the sculpts shown upthread; they were an especially ugly chicken-walker model with ribs all over them.)
Fast forward to Epic Armageddon doing its 'one warzone at a time thing' during the Fanatic years. Unfortunately for the old Epic range, this approach meant that each detailed setting kept getting expanded with more and more esoteric units, like Feral Orks and Steel Legion tank units... yet two of the big core factions (Chaos and Tyranids) remained mostly MIA throughout E:A's run.
Chaos did get a plastic sprue release, but I don't think any of its old metal range was rereleased. Tyranids sadly never showed up at all (except maybe for some Forgeworld bits and bobs?) because no setting for Epic A featured them. They were still lost in the warp when Specialist Games shut down as GW wound down its metal production in 2012-13ish.
As someone who got into Epic at the end of SG's lifespan, it was exasperating to go to the GW website in those days and see all these random weird units like Steam Gargants available to purchase for years, but almost nothing for two of the biggest classic 41st-millennium armies.
Jack Flask wrote: As interesting as it is to hear about the history of Epic (I mean that sincerely, I had just started getting into 40k around that time so I missed out, and it's the SG I most want GW to revive...),
but on the Titanicus front, can the game really be considered "complete" given the 8 or so new titan variants/classes that have either been described or name dropped in various recent lore?
I know they don't have the nostalgic appeal of the classics but I doubt GW allowed their literary creation without at least considering future Titanicus releases.
And that's before mentioning any of the other things people have already brought up like Emperor Titans and Chaos variants or even the Knight Dominus (and I hope the Armiger).
Its complete in the sense of just the rule book and the inital three titans and two knights(Questoris & Cerastus), and only Titan armies with Knight support.
But certainly not complete on the Knight House front which is in dire need of an overhaul of its terminals. The Dominus seems the only way to restore long range firepower to lances, but I'd lay money on it that they screw that up as well. For now they just charge titans and hope for the best.
lord_blackfang wrote: I personally think the game was complete when the original three were all out! Everything else is a welcome extra, but an extra.
Personally I don't think AT would work particularly well as the foundation of a new Epic, or even with Xenos titans, as the rules are veeery tied into how Imperial Titans function. I'd rather not see basically multiple different rulesets running concurrently on the table to cover different unit types and only really interacting with each other when resolving attacks. Epic would work better as a new ruleset entirely, less detailed to allow a wider scope.
I don't think people really see AT as a foundation ruleset for Epic, rather the existence of Titans and now aircraft in AI allows Epic to be created with a smaller investment from GW.
All they really need is an few infantry sprues and a few tank sprues, add in the titans and aircraft and you have viable armies for Epic.
tneva82 wrote: No i'm not. I got into epic with epic a. I was playing it during playtesting already. One of my questions is in faq in rulebook. Epic 40k rhinoswere old rhino style in plastlc. Epic armageddon ones werb currnt mars pattern in metal.
Revenant titans in Epic 40k were lot less sleek than epic a ones. No supa-stompa existed in epic 40k. And landa was epic a invention.
Did epic a use lots of old models? Yes. But it also got brand new models. Attached old one and ones that arrived with swordwind supplement.
Neither of those Revenants where released during Epic 40K. This one and here from SoL where from that time. The first ones are from 1995, Epic 40K was released in 1997, Epic Armageddon was 2003 with the Swordwind expansion in 2004.
Here’s the Necro proxy I mean the Phantom from the Epic 40K period. Sorry Eldar fans I know people try to forget about them.
Whilst I'm the first person to explain why 3D printing will in no way harm GW's bottom line when it comes to their games, I do feel like Epic/Warmaster/Bot5A are the one place they might actually be wary of it.
Once you start getting down below 15mm, it wouldn't be long at all before 3D printer files that imitate them almost perfectly start popping up - and that's assuming there aren't dozens of WarSlaughter 41st Galaxy 6mm type things out there already for it that I don't know about.
I don't think it's out of the question we might see things like Army or Legion Super-Heavies in Titanicus, but only as support pieces rather than 'expanding' the game into something akin to Epic, although I'm sure Community articles would try and play on the nostalgia in marketing to hype people up and leave them out in the cold.
Arbitrator wrote: Whilst I'm the first person to explain why 3D printing will in no way harm GW's bottom line when it comes to their games, I do feel like Epic/Warmaster/Bot5A are the one place they might actually be wary of it.
Once you start getting down below 15mm, it wouldn't be long at all before 3D printer files that imitate them almost perfectly start popping up - and that's assuming there aren't dozens of WarSlaughter 41st Galaxy 6mm type things out there already for it that I don't know about.
I don't think it's out of the question we might see things like Army or Legion Super-Heavies in Titanicus, but only as support pieces rather than 'expanding' the game into something akin to Epic, although I'm sure Community articles would try and play on the nostalgia in marketing to hype people up and leave them out in the cold.
They basically already exist, using a 6mm super heavy as a missile battery or macro cannon battery. They can't move but are incredibly resilient to titan shooting just not stomping, so they work pretty well to proxy a super heavy.
The tank on the right is basically counting as a macro cannon battery in our last game:
Spoiler:
As for 3d printing, well, the third party stuff has the advantage of speed. We'll likely see stl's and physical models for the new warmaster options before the kit even releases. Battle bling already has some amazing options for the warmasters arms and carapace. I don't think that will prevent anyone who wants an iconoclast from getting one mind u, but a lot of people who just want the sprue might ultimately do both, get the sprue and whatever stl's or physical arm models that pop up.
Hey guys - so as not to derail the thread further, there is a really cool Epic thread down in the Specialist Games section of the forum - lots of people's ongoing Epic projects there and discussion and new posters always welcome
GW seem to occasionally preview stuff well in advance. It's been a while since they previewed the new Aeronautica Imperialis stuff with Marines vs Eldar, and I haven't seen anything about it since.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: GW seem to occasionally preview stuff well in advance. It's been a while since they previewed the new Aeronautica Imperialis stuff with Marines vs Eldar, and I haven't seen anything about it since.
Oh snap is that really not out yet?
At this point I wouldn't be surprised if AI was just quietly dropped, it's a prime candidate to be sacrificed to cut down a bit on the corona-induced backlog.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: GW seem to occasionally preview stuff well in advance. It's been a while since they previewed the new Aeronautica Imperialis stuff with Marines vs Eldar, and I haven't seen anything about it since.
Oh snap is that really not out yet?
At this point I wouldn't be surprised if AI was just quietly dropped, it's a prime candidate to be sacrificed to cut down a bit on the corona-induced backlog.
I hope they don't drop it, but they really screwed the game, so I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't take off and they end up dropping it.
Once the Eldar and Marines come out, I think the only faction missing from the original game would be Chaos.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: GW seem to occasionally preview stuff well in advance. It's been a while since they previewed the new Aeronautica Imperialis stuff with Marines vs Eldar, and I haven't seen anything about it since.
Oh snap is that really not out yet?
At this point I wouldn't be surprised if AI was just quietly dropped, it's a prime candidate to be sacrificed to cut down a bit on the corona-induced backlog.
Dang true, the marine flyers would be great for AT too. If they do both get released close to one another, it's only a matter of time before someone chops up one of the marine flyers and puts it in the iconoclats drill/fist arm.
In other titanicus news, the grimdark terrain forklifts are awesome
Spoiler:
They also released a counter set that that has a cool magnetizeable counter that works like a switch, would be cool for objectives or activations. Also a 7th counter that works for marking titans with their void shields down. Basically can put them next to titans or banners of knights to remember what order they're on. Can also add decals and stuff to the shields.
Truly terrifying idea of it holding the Thunderhawk upwards, stomping around on the city making swooshing noises and laser sounds while all the tiny people get trampled....true grimdark
LOL, as cool as that would be, I think the AI aircraft are a bit too big for that to work. Maybe if they ever release the chibi-hawks, but I think there's a good chance they'll skip over those aircraft.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: LOL, as cool as that would be, I think the AI aircraft are a bit too big for that to work. Maybe if they ever release the chibi-hawks, but I think there's a good chance they'll skip over those aircraft.
The one on the photo is the chibihawk. The actual Thawk is about twice as long.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: LOL, as cool as that would be, I think the AI aircraft are a bit too big for that to work. Maybe if they ever release the chibi-hawks, but I think there's a good chance they'll skip over those aircraft.
The one on the photo is the chibihawk. The actual Thawk is about twice as long.
Well, that's a Storm Eagle, not a Stormraven, so it's ain't full chibi.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: LOL, as cool as that would be, I think the AI aircraft are a bit too big for that to work. Maybe if they ever release the chibi-hawks, but I think there's a good chance they'll skip over those aircraft.
The one on the photo is the chibihawk. The actual Thawk is about twice as long.
That's the Storm Eagle, it's still pretty big, and I think a lot bigger than that photoshop image is showing. By chibi-hawks I mean those horrible GW (rather than FW) models, the Stormraven, Stormtalon and Stormhawk.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: LOL, as cool as that would be, I think the AI aircraft are a bit too big for that to work. Maybe if they ever release the chibi-hawks, but I think there's a good chance they'll skip over those aircraft.
The one on the photo is the chibihawk. The actual Thawk is about twice as long.
That's the Storm Eagle, it's still pretty big, and I think a lot bigger than that photoshop image is showing. By chibi-hawks I mean those horrible GW (rather than FW) models, the Stormraven, Stormtalon and Stormhawk.
Truly terrifying idea of it holding the Thunderhawk upwards, stomping around on the city making swooshing noises and laser sounds while all the tiny people get trampled....true grimdark
I won't lie, that was exactly where my mind went when reminded that they had previewed marine flyers that never got released.
ingtaer wrote: Time to get back to news and rumours now please.
The photo is literally of something in the current title of the thread. And we're speculating on its release, I can't see how more on topic that is or could be.
Ya see, this is called a warmaster iconoclast, its rumoured to be released eventually. It's also holding something rumored to be released.
Spoiler:
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AllSeeingSkink wrote: LOL, as cool as that would be, I think the AI aircraft are a bit too big for that to work. Maybe if they ever release the chibi-hawks, but I think there's a good chance they'll skip over those aircraft.
Ya it's closer to 6mm, hope they come out around the same time.
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gorgon wrote: LOL. I definitely chuckled at that one.
MURDERDARTS! It has just the right blend of darkness and scale.
It would be cool if the grav version can toss stuff around without having to drop shields.
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Flinty wrote: Recreate the famous 1975 darts championship*, just with giant stompy death robots and huge flying murderdarts
(* disclaimer - I have no idea if there was a famous championship in darts or any other sport in this year)
If it could throw knights like bowling balls I'd suddenly decide I need a second warmaster.
ingtaer wrote: Time to get back to news and rumours now please.
The photo is literally of something in the current title of the thread. And we're speculating on its release, I can't see how more on topic that is or could be.
Ya see, this is called a warmaster iconoclast, its rumoured to be released eventually. It's also holding something rumored to be released.
No you're not. You're all being silly and will now take your newly beloved Angry-Marine-Dart into the Titanicus project thread, where such banter belongs.
We're also expecting you to put your money where your mouth is and deliver it for your next table!
We're discussing a rumoured release in a thread that shares the title of that rumoured release, like I can't stress that enough, I've made an attempt to continue said discussion, which is the topic and on topic. I have every intent to keep discussing news and rumours in the thread where we dicuss news and rumoured releases for adeptus titanicus.
Crablezworth wrote: We're discussing a rumoured release in a thread that shares the title of that rumoured release, like I can't stress that enough, I've made an attempt to continue said discussion, which is the topic and on topic. I have every intent to keep discussing news and rumours in the thread where we dicuss news and rumoured releases for adeptus titanicus.
Well, I've said my piece and shall leave it there. What you do next is in your hands.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: LOL, as cool as that would be, I think the AI aircraft are a bit too big for that to work. Maybe if they ever release the chibi-hawks, but I think there's a good chance they'll skip over those aircraft.
Ya it's closer to 6mm, hope they come out around the same time.
At risk of reigniting that debate, what are you referencing as "closer to 6mm"?
I thought 6mm was the correct scale, with "8mm" referring to the scale of a Space Marine in Titanicus.
I remember someone posted pictures of the rear access hatch of the Warlord and it matched perfectly with a 6mm Vanguard miniatures figure.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: LOL, as cool as that would be, I think the AI aircraft are a bit too big for that to work. Maybe if they ever release the chibi-hawks, but I think there's a good chance they'll skip over those aircraft.
Ya it's closer to 6mm, hope they come out around the same time.
At risk of reigniting that debate, what are you referencing as "closer to 6mm"?
I thought 6mm was the correct scale, with "8mm" referring to the scale of a Space Marine in Titanicus.
I remember someone posted pictures of the rear access hatch of the Warlord and it matched perfectly with a 6mm Vanguard miniatures figure.
I don't own any Titanicus models, but for AI I've measured all the planes that have fluff dimensions, and I own a bunch of 6mm representations of real world aircraft, AI is definitely closer to 8mm. The Ork Bommers even have Grot models you can measure, from memory they're a bit over 5mm in a seated position, and given they're Grots, I think a human being 8mm tall would be about right.
But I think the 6mm vs 8mm debate originates from 40k itself not having consistent scaling. *shrugs*
AllSeeingSkink wrote: But I think the 6mm vs 8mm debate originates from 40k itself not having consistent scaling. *shrugs*
Basically this. The important thing, to me, is that the AT and AI stuff looks right besides most epic regular stuff (vehicles and the like) and to the Vanguard/Onslaught/printed stuff
It's relative, from 6 to 8 it's about 25%. Some stuff on a titan's base looks weird at 8mm just because it works against the big stompy robot thing a bit, also the warmaster has limited space on it's base in particular.
All 6mm even the perturabo, so basically like vanguard for basing. But ya an 8mm tank or plane would be tough to fit, warmaster would have to be standing or stepping on it.
I wonder if we'll see warmaster ccw weapons from them before gw previews the weapon cards.
Probably in the form of a gigantic sword.
I hope if they do a claw it can be either version, I guess without knowing the rules though it might not matter. I wonder if the sword will get something unique like range 3 for some reason, it will likely be such a high strength that any special rules will barely be noticed.
Crablezworth wrote: It's relative, from 6 to 8 it's about 25%. Some stuff on a titan's base looks weird at 8mm just because it works against the big stompy robot thing a bit, also the warmaster has limited space on it's base in particular.
I think it's maybe because 40k titans aren't actually all that big? Some of the art draws them as being massive, but whenever GW actually makes them into models, they're not as big as one might feel they should be.
But yeah, I don't own any of the titans to check.
One thing about scale, sometimes it's better not having a consistent scale anyway. If you have a game where you focus on the titans, it probably makes sense to undersize the aircraft and humans, if you have a game where you focus on the aircraft, maybe it's better to undersize the titans to represent them being far away.
Random question, the armour plate bits you paint as coloured on the various classes of titans (warlord, reaver, warhound, warmaster), are they always separate from the underlying mechanical bits? So basically, if I wanted to "speed paint" them, could I leave all those coloured bits off and paint 90% of it with rattle cans, just cleaning up the edging afterwards?
I hope if they do a claw it can be either version, I guess without knowing the rules though it might not matter. I wonder if the sword will get something unique like range 3 for some reason, it will likely be such a high strength that any special rules will barely be noticed.
Thinking about it, the Iconoclast only seems to differ in two heads, two weapons and thus two weapon cards.
Being as you already own a Warmaster, have you noticed anything different about the smaller sub weapons in the Iconoclast image? If they were different I would lean more towards a new GW plastic kit rather than a FW release...
AllSeeingSkink wrote: Random question, the armour plate bits you paint as coloured on the various classes of titans (warlord, reaver, warhound, warmaster), are they always separate from the underlying mechanical bits? So basically, if I wanted to "speed paint" them, could I leave all those coloured bits off and paint 90% of it with rattle cans, just cleaning up the edging afterwards?
Usually yes, you could have the plates separate, but you'd need to be careful that you're actually able to glue them afterwards, as some poses might prevent it.
I hope if they do a claw it can be either version, I guess without knowing the rules though it might not matter. I wonder if the sword will get something unique like range 3 for some reason, it will likely be such a high strength that any special rules will barely be noticed.
Thinking about it, the Iconoclast only seems to differ in two heads, two weapons and thus two weapon cards.
Being as you already own a Warmaster, have you noticed anything different about the smaller sub weapons in the Iconoclast image? If they were different I would lean more towards a new GW plastic kit rather than a FW release...
Three weapons and three heads I think. The smaller weapons are all identical, but they are on a different sprue to the main weapons and heads, all the pieces that have changed on the Iconoclast are from a single sprue. If there were changes to the smaller weapons then I think that would more likely to indicate that it was a FW kit, as that would otherwise require more than 1 sprue to be changed.
Albertorius - you have done well with positioning that. I have struggled with the one Titan I did, and have usually just stuck to infantry.
Crablezwoth - that Perturabo base looks awesome! Although he would have to be careful, I can imagine the after-battle incident report involving that Titan. "Well we saw him running around down there and tried to step to one side, but then he swerved at the last second and then there was a horrible crunching sound!"
Regarding the scale thing, I've noticed that GW is going for "1/4th of 40k" when designing Titanicus and Aeronautica stuff. A 32mm Space Marine is then 8mm. Thing in 40k is that the scale is all over the place. Regular humans such as Necromunda gangers or Rogue Trader crews are taller than genetically modified super soldiers in power armour, just to give you an example.
So for regular humans, I think you can get away with going for anything between 6mm and about 7.5mm for normal humans and then go for 8mm to 8.5mm if you wanna do Space Marines. Terminators would most likely be 9mm to 9.5mm.
Three weapons and three heads I think. The smaller weapons are all identical, but they are on a different sprue to the main weapons and heads, all the pieces that have changed on the Iconoclast are from a single sprue. If there were changes to the smaller weapons then I think that would more likely to indicate that it was a FW kit, as that would otherwise require more than 1 sprue to be changed.
...with any luck, on Sunday, it will be "Coming Soon...". "Titans and Thunderhawks", maybe?
My guess is October, for one I'm hoping and thinking it will possibly not be alone and like the last warmaster release, will hopefully coincide with the long awaited traitor book's release. No rumours, just a hunch that it would fit well with october being the book is likely full of rules for corrupted knights and titans. Mostly just wishful thinking but imminent could mean weeks.
Total wish listing but at this point I'd really love if they released a card warmaster terminal with a full set of cards the encompasses both warmaster boxes. Even if they offer the sprue separately like they do for the warlords there'd still be no way to get the cards outside of lucking out on ebay or buying
the iconoclast box just to get arms and carapace weapons and cards. I love my warmaster, I just never am going to field two of them, which makes it like the best candidate of any of my titans to be as modular as possible.
Those are some nice paint jobs, it's a shame it wasn't the iconoclast.
Total wish listing but at this point I'd really love if they released a card warmaster terminal with a full set of cards the encompasses both warmaster boxes. Even if they offer the sprue separately like they do for the warlords there'd still be no way to get the cards outside of lucking out on ebay or buying
the iconoclast box just to get arms and carapace weapons and cards. I love my warmaster, I just never am going to field two of them, which makes it like the best candidate of any of my titans to be as modular as possible.
You could always get a second to let your opponents have one in a mirror match? That doesn't solve the card issue if you wanted 2 plasma Warmasters to face off though.
I don't like the flimsy unit sheets so will be doing my own to replace the one which comes in the box - and if I'm doing that, might as well print sufficient weapon cards to cover the alternative builds when the weapon sprue comes out.
gorgon wrote: It will be interesting to see if the Traitors book has Corrupted Titans or not. I can see it going either way.
It pretty much has to or something is wrong. For one, they've been referenced in the rules so if not in the traitor book it'd be disappointing to have to get yet another supplement after getting what's largely a compendium. But also, the loyalist book re-printed the psi titan rules, so the traitor book would be pretty lacking if it didn't have corrupted rules. Hell one of the newer rules from the traitor book is a piece of a wargear that directly affects corrupted enemies. It'd be really disappointing to have it be it's own book we have to wait till next year for.
I think AT has to start moving toward corrupted titans if its ever going to mature as a game. Mirror Matches and mirror forces can only sustain the game for so long and GW has released many of the bigger and more iconic models for the Imperium. Sure they can always add more over time, but by that same virtue the more they add for the Imperials the more they've got to add for any Chaos/Xenos force to counter them to bring them up to standard.
I think they are more than at a comfortable mirror-match position and the game must be selling well for them to be putting money into more models and bigger ones.
SamusDrake wrote: Theres also the matter of renegade knight banners, which would be...interesting.
It'd be nice to have a banner of knights that could at least take a shot or two without melting, a corruption/ability to basically have the equiv of a void shield or invul save regardless of weapon strength would be quite a welcome upgrade. I still don't know why we can't just pay a stratagem point to give the only banner of knights in a battlegroup one of the knight leader traits.
Space Marines will probably be a solid seller for Aeronautica. I've seen a few mentions of combined campaigns for Titanicus, Heresy and Aeronautica. Expect legion colours for the marines. I'm planning to do a bunch of mine in Legion colours
gorgon wrote: It will be interesting to see if the Traitors book has Corrupted Titans or not. I can see it going either way.
It pretty much has to or something is wrong. For one, they've been referenced in the rules so if not in the traitor book it'd be disappointing to have to get yet another supplement after getting what's largely a compendium. But also, the loyalist book re-printed the psi titan rules, so the traitor book would be pretty lacking if it didn't have corrupted rules. Hell one of the newer rules from the traitor book is a piece of a wargear that directly affects corrupted enemies. It'd be really disappointing to have it be it's own book we have to wait till next year for.
I wouldn't say that it has to. The game and release schedule is still mostly built around campaign books, and I can see them waiting to properly feature Corrupted Titans in a campaign with a proper narrative instead of just doled out in a compendium. I'd also be very surprised if they didn't have kits to sell alongside the first release of CT rules. But there's a good chance that those kits will be resin upgrades from FW, so we can't rule out those appearing alongside the new Warmaster. So we shall see.
Don't think the Psi is that far away from being back in stock. I've picked up two from WHW in last couple of months. Issue in getting one has been the correct Warlord kit rather than the FW elements.
zedmeister wrote: Wonder what will happen first? Corrupted Titans or the Psi-Titan coming back into stock?
Ha!
You beat me to it!
I've been trying to get the Psy-Titan since it was initially released, (x) months ago.
So long now I've forgotten...
I've probably not been paying enough attention lately - how does the Iconoclast differ from the 'standard' Warmaster - is it just in it's (ridiculous) "close combat" approach and weapon setup?
I've probably not been paying enough attention lately - how does the Iconoclast differ from the 'standard' Warmaster - is it just in it's (ridiculous) "close combat" approach and weapon setup?
Chain sword arm, grav imploder / siege drill arm, three more head options, and the cruciator Gatling array instead of the carapace revelator missile launcher. Basically swapping out the weapon/head sprue just like on the warlord and the reaver titans,
zedmeister wrote: Wonder what will happen first? Corrupted Titans or the Psi-Titan coming back into stock?
Ha!
You beat me to it!
I've been trying to get the Psy-Titan since it was initially released, (x) months ago.
So long now I've forgotten...
I've probably not been paying enough attention lately - how does the Iconoclast differ from the 'standard' Warmaster - is it just in it's (ridiculous) "close combat" approach and weapon setup?
Artisans of vaul/Battle bling have some options on the psi titan front. The psi titan terminal is basically just a warlord terminal, as long as you have the psi titan rules and warlord with one of these on it's left arm you're good
Automatically Appended Next Post: 16 Legios. Nice, that means at least one, maybe two new legios depending on how they count Legio Tritonis. Hoping for Legio Victorum at least.
Pretty good for traitor-titan players and leaves at least one more book to cover renegade banners, which we probably won't see until the new year now.
Going forward, we need a good Saturday preview announcing either a new scout titan or a knight with long range firepower and some tough armour. And certainly not with resin tax...
I'm surprised GW isn't rolling out at least some corrupted armour upgrade sets or such. They might be holding them back for the next news article, but at the same time the front cover doesn't have any either.
It might be one of those things that got postponed because of Corona? We might be able to tell if the book has variant weapons and the like
This is beyond dope. I might actually buy this book.
Aetheric Tempest(Tzeentch) is cool. A titan puking on stuff(Nurgle)is interesting. The Blood(Khorne) is probably fun to play. But...where's the Slannesh one?
I'm afraid so and probably thats it for the rest of the year.
With no mention of a FW kit, I hope its not going to be "Coming soon!" for the Traitor book and then a last minute "Get your Iconoclast titan from FW this friday!", because that would really be a slap in the face for Warmaster fans.
Speaking of rubbish, how are they going to convince us to splash out on the Asterius when it arrives? Even more so if its an expensive resin kit?
Overread wrote: I'm surprised GW isn't rolling out at least some corrupted armour upgrade sets or such. They might be holding them back for the next news article, but at the same time the front cover doesn't have any either.
It might be one of those things that got postponed because of Corona? We might be able to tell if the book has variant weapons and the like
At this point I'm only expecting plastic versions of things like the Banelord if there's a relaunch of the game in 2022/23. If that's not in the pipeline then we might see corrupted titans done with resin components in the same way as the Warlord-Sinister.
Yeah it would have been nice to preview models with it.
The other annoying takeaway is they really did make the iconoclast a "different" titan from the normal warmaster. If the end result is that you can't swap weapons between them it will be a really bizarre move.
Spoiler:
Also, this may be nitpicking, but this is terribly written, The ability is fine, but you could literally just show a weapon card, I can't actually believe someone wrote: "short range T, long range -, dice value D3, S5 and the firestorm and fusion traits."
I'm excited for the book, bit confused why slanesh doesn't get anything.
I'm afraid so and probably thats it for the rest of the year.
With no mention of a FW kit, I hope its not going to be "Coming soon!" for the Traitor book and then a last minute "Get your Iconoclast titan from FW this friday!", because that would really be a slap in the face for Warmaster fans.
Speaking of rubbish, how are they going to convince us to splash out on the Asterius when it arrives? Even more so if its an expensive resin kit?
Also, this may be nitpicking, but this is terribly written, The ability is fine, but you could literally just show a weapon card, I can't actually believe someone wrote: "short range T, long range -, dice value D3, S5 and the firestorm and fusion traits."
I'm excited for the book, bit confused why slanesh doesn't get anything.
It's not a weapon on a card, easy as that. Doesn't take slots, won't detonate, yadda. Now as to why they didn't write it out like other things that shoot, like Battlefield Assets with their statlines, who knows.
On the other track, why wouldn't Slaanesh have as much everyone else? Most stuff here is power-agnostic, weird warp shenanigans work for all facets of Chaos.
Nurglitch wrote: Seems kind of obvious that GW will release models that are covered by the rules; the rules are just marketing copy to get you to buy the models.
Then they would've previewed or at leasted teased them, eh?
Not been confirmed whether its a GW or FW release, and we're all using our best judgement at this point to suggest that its a plastic kit.
It's a plastic kit almost certainly, they've shown what looks to be the box art, it's on the cover of the traitor book too. I can't for the life of me see marketing it as one thing and have it actually be a collection of resin upgrades, last go around the loyalist book dropped at the same time as the warmaster, I can't see gw having just the traitor book on offer while having to go to forgeworld for the iconoclast, I just don't see it.
It's a plastic kit almost certainly, they've shown what looks to be the box art, it's on the cover of the traitor book too. I can't for the life of me see marketing it as one thing and have it actually be a collection of resin upgrades, last go around the loyalist book dropped at the same time as the warmaster, I can't see gw having just the traitor book on offer while having to go to forgeworld for the iconoclast, I just don't see it.
Like I said, we're using our best judgement in place of a confirmation.
The picture might be an image taken from within the traitor legio book, and its worth keeping in mind that Defense of Ryza featured a Megaera knight on the front cover and that ended up a FW kit, much to my disappointment.
I know a lot of people were expecting more chaos-warped titans with this book. A little unfortunate, but the future is still mighty uncertain for a lot of this.
Either way, excited to finally be getting the other side of this book, since it means that most of the Legios are covered in 2 books instead of... like 8
Given that Titanicus game that's in alpha/beta on Steam, that it has a Banelord, and that GW often gives various licensees information regarding upcoming releases well before the public, I'd've thought that this traitor book would have God-specific Titan miniatures.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Given that Titanicus game that's in alpha/beta on Steam, that it has a Banelord, and that GW often gives various licensees information regarding upcoming releases well before the public, I'd've thought that this traitor book would have God-specific Titan miniatures.
Yeah same. Maybe a future book? Loyalist and Traitor Legios could simply be a way for them to condense legio and knight information.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Given that Titanicus game that's in alpha/beta on Steam, that it has a Banelord, and that GW often gives various licensees information regarding upcoming releases well before the public, I'd've thought that this traitor book would have God-specific Titan miniatures.
Yeah same. Maybe a future book? Loyalist and Traitor Legios could simply be a way for them to condense legio and knight information.
Yeah, the loyalist and traitor books are more compendiums than campaign books.
I never thought a Banelord would require a whole new kit. A head bit, a tail bit, and maybe some different armor plates for the Warlord and you’d pretty much have it in terms of something looking like the old model. Fluff/rules wise I also didn’t expect Banelords to be things stamped out by Banelord factories. Rather Banelord is the term for a Warlord that’s been corrupted by Khorne. Which I hazard to guess the Corrupted Titan rules will allow us to create. The rules teased by the loyalist book suggest more going on with mutations etc than this article explains.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Given that Titanicus game that's in alpha/beta on Steam, that it has a Banelord, and that GW often gives various licensees information regarding upcoming releases well before the public, I'd've thought that this traitor book would have God-specific Titan miniatures.
It is GW and printed materials...it will be a drip drip release of generic Traitor/corrupted book then further ones for God specific. It will see them cover 2022 releases for AT easily and possibly beyond.
The good thing is the past few days on his social media Taro Model maker has been building AT kits and seems very enthusiastic about their level of detail and releases that he can add to the range.
Excellent news on the new book. We all knew it was coming, but nice to see that it will be soon now.
Some interesting thoughts above on Chaos-God-specific books. In could see the next few campaign books covering 1-2 of the pantheon that were involved in a specific action.
And Taro has been looking at AT for some time now. This is the perfect opportunity to step into the fray. The quality of his stuff is excellent.
schoon wrote: Excellent news on the new book. We all knew it was coming, but nice to see that it will be soon now.
Some interesting thoughts above on Chaos-God-specific books. In could see the next few campaign books covering 1-2 of the pantheon that were involved in a specific action.
And Taro has been looking at AT for some time now. This is the perfect opportunity to step into the fray. The quality of his stuff is excellent.
I believe he's making stuff for battle bling now as well.
Moopy wrote: Has there been any rumors of adding super-heavies into AT?
Leviathans, Shadowswords, etc?
It's not gonna happen. You can already just field some tank models and use them to count as battlefield assets like macro cannon batteries. There's also titan hunter infantry as well already in the game. We use them in pretty much every game. The first example of the macro battery doesn't tend to mess things up too much because it goes before everything else in the strategy phase, but the titan hunter infantry are a good example, a few on both sides can be really great, but each base is an activation in the combat phase, like, the same as a titan or even squadron of titans, so it can get unhinged really quickly with too many small activations. I just don't think it's mean to be epic, it can have a splash of epic for scale but too much takes away from the stompy robots. Hell even too many knights can be less than great experience in a game about titans like knights are cool but whole factions made of knights don't even work that well in game already. I'd be stoked to see gw release more epic scale models but I don't think it'd be good for the game.
Spoiler:
Posting these pics only to show we have no problem fitting some cool super heavies or armigers or little infantry into the game as it currently stands, but fielding too many little things like this can actually have some weird ramifications for game balance. AT is alternating activation, but little activations like titan hunters can really throw a curveball into the balance. For one, you can already have games where one side has perhaps double the activations, and the problem is, alternating activation is fairly balance but the "tail end" effect, ie when the side with only activations (think titans) has done them all, the other side with 6 activations can basically do the bottom half of the turn in sequence one after the other. This isn't necessarily the end of the world, but if you add 2 units of titan hunters into the mix (this is 4 activations) and the other side doesn't have any, you could have 10 activations to 3 in the combat phase.
SamusDrake wrote: Only rumour I've heard so far is that titanicus will be scrapped after next year.
Spoken by some rando on 4chan of all places within a set of rumors that are already looking dodgy.
We have probably two more main Titan chassis to come. There could also be variant kits of those. Corrupted Knights will almost certainly happen. More Psy-Titans have been teased. Still plenty to sell, and it does sell.
Right now we’ve only had two chassis plus the Warlord Psy and a bunch of Knights added to the original three in the years since the game’s release. So if the game ends next year, it should be a Titaniterrific 12 months and we’ll all be broke.
SamusDrake wrote: Only rumour I've heard so far is that titanicus will be scrapped after next year.
Spoken by some rando on 4chan of all places within a set of rumors that are already looking dodgy.
We have probably two more main Titan chassis to come. There could also be variant kits of those. Corrupted Knights will almost certainly happen. More Psy-Titans have been teased. Still plenty to sell, and it does sell.
Right now we’ve only had two chassis plus the Warlord Psy and a bunch of Knights added to the original three in the years since the game’s release. So if the game ends next year, it should be a Titaniterrific 12 months and we’ll all be broke.
Then with no other rumours on the radar, the case is closed. No tanks on the horizon.
Looks great but doesn't even follow it's own wyswyg based on the terminal, I like the little volkites don't get me wrong, but they're not lascannons, nor autocannons. So unless they're also releasing updated terminals, which honestly hope they do, bit confused.
Crablezworth wrote: Looks great but doesn't even follow it's own wyswyg based on the terminal, I like the little volkites don't get me wrong, but they're not lascannons, nor autocannons. So unless they're also releasing updated terminals, which honestly hope they do, bit confused.
I’m hoping that as well. This is as good an opportunity as any, but this is GW so who knows...
Yeah, had a strong feeling the Asterius would be a FW kit and now expecting a revised terminal.
So long as that terminal doesn't include the idiotic word "auxiliary" then it should be a good choice for those knight players willing to pay the resin tax.
Crablezworth wrote: Looks great but doesn't even follow it's own wyswyg based on the terminal, I like the little volkites don't get me wrong, but they're not lascannons, nor autocannons. So unless they're also releasing updated terminals, which honestly hope they do, bit confused.
I’m hoping that as well. This is as good an opportunity as any, but this is GW so who knows...
It's been really the only terminal with outdated points, the fact that they're stilling selling the card ones in boxes of 5 is depraved even for GW. So they really do owe the players an update, especially if they're going to change weapons wyswyg-wise, not to mention the fact that the asterius is even more broken than the porhpyrion. I have one painted and still haven' mustered the strength to run one because I only get about a game a month in and they're just too damn good. Only reason I don't feel as bad about the porphyrions is both myself and opponent have ones we can both field. So here's hoping they don't just update the points but maybe take the weapons down a notch. Even if they cut both main weapons in half in terms of how many blasts they can put out they'd still be very good units, still long range 360 reliable shooting.
Could also see it simply as fw trying their best to make it like the 28mm scale model without even remembering the autocannon/lascannon thing. It looks to me like it will be a hybrid plastic kit, which likely means 2 of them per set. So maybe a new paper terminal, honestly don't even want to get my hopes up seeing as they said volkites would come with cards and it was the back of the blister back and you had to cut it out...
Eiríkr wrote: Agreed, I'm tired of seeing Knights - I'm ready for corrupted titans and maybe the first inkling of Xenos!
The Asterius is the only knight to be released since last November, and we've been waiting for it since mid 2019 - two years ago. Thats a very long time for such a small model.
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aracersss wrote: With Asterius out, AT is officially out of fw models to copy, bar xenos/chaos.
Its definitely high time we saw the chaos warhound and reaver models.
Imma be honest, i think this game is on the way out, GW doesn't seem to be willing to make any Chaos models or expand into Xenos, and there isn't really much way to go forward without those.
*I know these are both Chaos types, but perhaps we'll see the laser weapon from the Desecrator on the loyalists, or perhaps the type of legs of the Chaos knights on the Loyalists. Or even more controversial: CHAOS KNIGHTS IN AT18!!!
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: Imma be honest, i think this game is on the way out, GW doesn't seem to be willing to make any Chaos models or expand into Xenos, and there isn't really much way to go forward without those.
Nah, there are still models they mentioned that were part of the original design plan they can do. The Scout Titan smaller than the Warhound (probably the oft mentioned Rapier), the Titan sized in between the Warhound and Reaver, and the plain non-corrupted versions of the old Slaneeshi Knights.
Plus there are several other classes of Titan mentioned in Heresy fluff they could produce, beyond the inbetween size models.
And the Dominus class Knights.
Plenty of stuff to produce before thinking about Xenos titans
I think they will definitely do some Chaos Titans at some point though, as they did appear in numbers at the Siege.
I still think that if we get plastic Chaos titans it'll be via a new game box / AT relaunch. It would be a terrible way to manage releases if we had to wait 3-6 months between Chaos Warlord > Chaos Reaver > Chaos Warhound. At the minimum, a core of updated models need be available all at once so players can build a maniple with them.
GW will also want any Loyalist-only players who can't use the new models to start a Traitor maniple, and the best way to encourage that is via a discounted box.
I always assumed that Chaos would be a big new starter box with a big fanfare, marketing and such. It's a huge addition and change from the civil war of mirror forces to one where you start to see chaos corrupted titans.
It's also where I would indeed expect to see several new models for Chaos launched at once. Because at that stage your civil war players who want to play Chaos won't want one Corrupted titan they will want a whole manifold force of them to use.
So at least seeing a Warlord, Reaver, Knight core and then expanding from there.
chaos0xomega wrote: I dunno, I have always assumed that chaos titans and knights would be resin/resin upgrade kits to plastic titans/knights.
I'd probably place my money on that if I had to bet. From the rules hints we've seen about base mutations and additional mutations, it sounds like it'll be about 'upgrading' existing chassis. Resin upgrade parts would fit perfectly in that plan. But plastic upgrade sprues are certainly possible. What seems very unlikely are unique plastic Banelord kits and such...at least anything more than a plastic Warlord or whatever with an extra sprue or resin parts thrown in. And they still have more base chassis to release anyway, as others have said.
Transfers would be nice, but what they really need to do is catch up on more Legios instead of just re-releasing the handful they've already designed. I tell everyone my Audax aren't done because I literally have room saved on the chassis and banners for transfers.
I mean, I get it if Audax is a little niche. But I also built a small Praesagius maniple and I feel like that's a notable enough Legio to get a few damn transfers. It'd be nice to just know if they're planning on designing any new ones.
So guys, I may or may not work for Games Workshop...but thats not important right now; just don't tell Gorgon about this...
Spoiler:
A new expansion dedicated entirely to Legio Audax and scout titans is in the works and due for release not long after Traitor Legios. It will be accompanied by the new Jackal class scout titan and an alternative, plastic weapon sprue for warhounds. To tie in with this momentous occsassion, Warhammer+ will host a new live action series called "The Ember Wolves", produced by the team behind Danger 5 and will feature Henry Cavill in a special guest appearance as both The Emperor of Mankind and Horus Lupercal.
It was just nice to hear slanesh mentioned. It would have been nice to see actual pics of corrupted titans, this is starting to seem more and more like custom legio 2.0 heresy edition. The people want tentacles and biomechanical horror beyond reason, give the people what they want or battle bling will do it for you
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SamusDrake wrote: So guys, I may or may not work for Games Workshop...but thats not important right now; just don't tell Gorgon about this...
Spoiler:
A new expansion dedicated entirely to Legio Audax and scout titans is in the works and due for release not long after Traitor Legios. It will be accompanied by the new Jackal class scout titan and an alternative, plastic weapon sprue for warhounds. To tie in with this momentous occsassion, Warhammer+ will host a new live action series called "The Ember Wolves", produced by the team behind Danger 5 and will feature Henry Cavill in a special guest appearance as both The Emperor of Mankind and Horus Lupercal.
Really hoping we do see a scout titan, one day.
(what gw hears)
"It seems people really want more 80 dollar resin knight models from forge world tm*"
SamusDrake wrote: So guys, I may or may not work for Games Workshop...but thats not important right now; just don't tell Gorgon about this...
Spoiler:
A new expansion dedicated entirely to Legio Audax and scout titans is in the works and due for release not long after Traitor Legios. It will be accompanied by the new Jackal class scout titan and an alternative, plastic weapon sprue for warhounds. To tie in with this momentous occsassion, Warhammer+ will host a new live action series called "The Ember Wolves", produced by the team behind Danger 5 and will feature Henry Cavill in a special guest appearance as both The Emperor of Mankind and Horus Lupercal.
Add in replacing the statue in front of GWHQ with a life-size Legio Audax Warhound statue and it'd be acceptable. Anything short of that is less than the Ember Wolves deserve.
But in all seriousness, even Praesagius transfers would make me pretty happy. I think I saw a file to make your own on the FB group, but the official GW transfer sheets are so nice. I'm fully aware that COVID took a humongous toll on business plans, but I feel like Shadow & Iron never got everything it should have. I don't think it got any transfers IIRC, and I don't think they ever released the stratagem cards.
Add in replacing the statue in front of GWHQ with a life-size Legio Audax Warhound statue and it'd be acceptable. Anything short of that is less than the Ember Wolves deserve.
Add in replacing the statue in front of GWHQ with a life-size Legio Audax Warhound statue and it'd be acceptable. Anything short of that is less than the Ember Wolves deserve.
I clearly underestimated you!
Why replace the statue when a life-sized warhound could just stand on it ?
So are we taking bets yet if gw/fw updated the terminals for the acastus or will it be a paper only version with just the asterius's rules updated to have volkite with no change to the porphyrion's terminals that they still sell in boxes of 5?
Hello once again. I may or may not work for Forgeworld...
Spoiler:
The Asterius will be super-resin cast and retail for £80 each. The rules have indeed been greatly improved following player feedback; the Asterius is now 130 points and its conversion beams beefed up to 12 strength and 8 dice. The banner size is now 6-12 knights and can take coordinated strike even as a support choice. To celebrate the release of Metroid Dread on the Nintendo Switch, the Asterius' conversion beam gains the wave-beam trait and can now shoot through terrain and hit multiple titans.
Add in replacing the statue in front of GWHQ with a life-size Legio Audax Warhound statue and it'd be acceptable. Anything short of that is less than the Ember Wolves deserve.
Word is that was the original plan. But zoning rules...
All kidding aside, it would name sense for the next Titan to be a Scout Class. I was hoping that it would come with the Traitor Legios, but it seems a bit late for that now.
schoon wrote: All kidding aside, it would name sense for the next Titan to be a Scout Class. I was hoping that it would come with the Traitor Legios, but it seems a bit late for that now.
Perhaps with the next book...
The Rapier does seem to be mentioned quite consistently, doesn't it?
Would love to see even just some artwork of it at this stage...
By the way, do we have a list of Knight and Titan classes that are mentioned in the background but don't have models yet? I feel that Lexicanum has a bunch of them, but I think there are more of them (including Knights).
Malika2 wrote: By the way, do we have a list of Knight and Titan classes that are mentioned in the background but don't have models yet? I feel that Lexicanum has a bunch of them, but I think there are more of them (including Knights).
Off the top of my head:
- Apocalypse class - Punisher class - Rapier class - Legatus class - Vulcan class - Atlas class
Malika2 wrote: By the way, do we have a list of Knight and Titan classes that are mentioned in the background but don't have models yet? I feel that Lexicanum has a bunch of them, but I think there are more of them (including Knights).
Off the top of my head:
- Apocalypse class
- Punisher class
- Rapier class
- Legatus class
- Vulcan class
- Atlas class
Carnivore and Komodo have had several mentions in the FW black books as well.
Another interesting tidbit in the more recent Titanicus books is that the Jackal is mentioned as a class rather than a pattern. So it's not sure whether it's a variant of the Warhound or has actually been retconned into something else.
Malika2 wrote: Another interesting tidbit in the more recent Titanicus books is that the Jackal is mentioned as a class rather than a pattern. So it's not sure whether it's a variant of the Warhound or has actually been retconned into something else.
Well, the Nemesis has been mentioned as both a Warlord class and a titan larger than a warlord before becoming a modifier to the upgunned Warbringer, which we have no idea what the normal version looks like.
Given that titans are not STC designs, it could be a mix of different forge worlds using different names, or many of the designs could start out as modifications to existing titan frames before evolving into a new titan entirely.
schoon wrote: All kidding aside, it would name sense for the next Titan to be a Scout Class. I was hoping that it would come with the Traitor Legios, but it seems a bit late for that now.
Perhaps with the next book...
The Rapier does seem to be mentioned quite consistently, doesn't it?
Would love to see even just some artwork of it at this stage...
Would REALLY be nice to have another Titan option for us Audax players. But I'm content to wait if the result is a really kick-butt design.
I'm guessing we get the Rapier or the unnamed 'tweener Titan in Q1 next year. Seems like AT gets important releases around that time.
The Reaver-Warhound 'tweener. Their stated plan was for chassis in between/on either side of the main three types. And so far we've gotten two of the four.
