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Hey guys.

Recently I've been doing some reading and have found a lot of fluff and/or fan opinions of Squats.

Squats are a short, squat race of humanoids that was removed from 40k after Hive Fleet "Behemoth" devoured them. They were removed from the 40k Universe, as they failed to fully fit in to the "Grim Darkness of the Far Future", and were seen by many as a "Joke" race. (Source: See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squat_%28Warhammer_40,000%29)

Here is an example of a squat command squad.



In my personal opinion, I hate Squats. And I say this for many reasons. One, I think that the miniatures were ugly. Two (and this is the main one), Dwarves in space? It just never sat right with me, I have always only really seen them as humorous, and don't sit right in the 40k universe in my opinion. And Three, they brought 40k too close to the 'typical' stereotype fantasy universe in terms of races. So, to answer my own question, no, I personally do not think that Squats should be reintroduced to 40k.

These are just my thoughts though, and after reading on numerous sites about people who hated them. Or people who hate GW for discontinuing them, and would kill to have them back. I'm just curious what you Dakka-ites might have to say about this.

I don't like the way people idolize Squats as martyrs, not to mention that mechanic wise there's not much they can add to the game (aside from pissing people off with TLOS)

Only if lead by Snow White.

this was done also with poll not that long ago iirc
With regard to ugly models, a lot from that era were far worse.

Haha agreed on the TLOS.

Broadside: "Look I gonna shoot you with my railgun!"
Squat, from behind Anthill "Think again, buddy."

I'm not too sure about them being able to not introduce many new things, I mean the possibilities are endless in that regard. However, I just don't think they really suit, as mentioned in the OP.

And I'd have to agree with you Chibi, but these are far beyond ridiculous.

Personally glad they got eaten. Couldn't think of a better way for them to go!

I intend to reintroduce them, but in Power Armour.
No don't scoff, this means that I can have True Scale Space Wolves without messing about having to convert an entire army!
Also gets around the LOS issue which I agree is a bit of a potential advantage. or disadvantage, because the Squats would be able to see less without periscopes.

Genius I think you will agree!

My eyes... they buuurn...

Nuhuuuuh no squats in my universe, never!

They were removed for a reason, they just didn't look right and didn't fit in the whole universe. 40k was one big joke in the first two editions, but the further they went the more serious it got, so yeah lets not get back there please.

They were removed for a reason. Hardly anyone bought them, so why would anyone buy them second time round?

Gorechild wrote:They were removed for a reason. Hardly anyone bought them, so why would anyone buy them second time round?

In saying that, I have seen a lot of threads about how awesome they are, and how they HATE GW for removing them. So they must have made some money.

they got removed because they did not sell well, that's the most common quote you can find about Squats. Personally I never saw them, but if they've been erased just because they are "dwarves in spaaaaace" then please... erase also the pointy ears. We don't need them.

That is not the point. The point is that for the grim darkness, a race of xenos and modified humans that trades with the Imperium obtaining independence it's... stupid.

I voted for reintroducing the Squats, but please, give them some interesting background and not the same "Me smash pointy ears!"

They didn't get bought because they were not done properly at 40k scale. At Epic scale, they were great. They had some really interesting units.

In the modern W40k game, they could be quite interesting as potentially the only army without infantry in the troops slots, just skimmers (gyrocoptors) and guild bikers instead. Back when they were scratched, the quality vehicles just did not exist to make Squats a good-looking army. Now they could potentially look awesome.

I voted no.

I have to confess, I always found the whole concept of Squats to be pretty stupid in the first place, for both Epic and 40K.

It seemed to me that GW, at that time, were trying hard to make 40K 'Fantasy in Space' with all the Fantasy races having a direct 40K analogue.

I voted yes but I would hope they would come back as an ally of the Tau, since from what I remember reading that the Tau got ion tech from a squat like race.

filbert wrote:I voted no.

I have to confess, I always found the whole concept of Squats to be pretty stupid in the first place, for both Epic and 40K.

It seemed to me that GW, at that time, were trying hard to make 40K 'Fantasy in Space' with all the Fantasy races having a direct 40K analogue.

Pretty much this. Though to be honest they were before my time, but I from what I've gathered they didn't quite match up with the feel of 40k (even the pointy ears are seen as genocidal maniacs if you're on the recieving end).

filbert wrote:I voted no.

I have to confess, I always found the whole concept of Squats to be pretty stupid in the first place, for both Epic and 40K.

It seemed to me that GW, at that time, were trying hard to make 40K 'Fantasy in Space' with all the Fantasy races having a direct 40K analogue.

Agreed.

I voted no.

If GW were to even attempt something like this I would suggest the Demi-urg race/concept would be a much better one to run....(welll shuffle given their leg length perhaps) with.

Last thing we need are resourses pulled from other projects/armies that arent finished to get another half assed release.
R.I.P.

I'd say in the next IG codex or something as a small tidbit of allies of the Imperium, maybe take up an elite slot or something, 0-1 *the one time it's still around*

I have nothing against Squats, except I think that absolutely the last thing the game needs is another IoM army.

GW simply can't manage to maintain the number of codexes they are already have.

They need to deal with all existing books in a timely fashion before introducing another army.

If and when GW prove themselves capable, Squats would work better as Demiurg, and could appear in Tau armies as allies as well as in their own book.

I voted no:

- They are a bit too 'jokey'/fantasy for the current 40K. i.e. They're not grim or dark enough.
- They wouldn't exactly add a new army mechanic.
- Not more Codices - GW can barely keep up as it is.
- Not popular enough to be justified.
- Can you imagine peoples complaints if a whole race was retconned? (Re-retconned?)

Just play them as IG if you want dwarves in space.
I was at a tourney last year when I saw a IG player using all squats. It was a beautiful army.

I never knew about the "Lack of Support" they had, I just figured they removed them due to fluff.

But that's mainly the reason why I'd say it wouldn't make sense. They're dead.

Then for GW to have write some twist like: "This group of Squats remained in their sanctuary, so that they may fight again blah, blah."

I would however.... think it'd be cool if they did Squats and... CHAOS SQUATS

no
update the old races instead

I voted yes because I would rather see a new Codex for squats then to see another Space Marine codex.

but that is of course after they update the stupid Necron codex >:{!!!. ahhhh I wan't to play necrons without worrying about getting run down in CC!!!

They definitely have a lot of awesome potential, but with a different name besides squats and a more grim, war trodden, underground technological feel to them.

I've only ever played 5th edition so I don't know what they were like before. Dwarves in space could be done, but squats seems out of the picture.

They are a joke. Players would get
"ha, ha, is that your army or your garden gnome collection? hurr hurr hurr"
a lot.

filbert wrote:I voted no.

I have to confess, I always found the whole concept of Squats to be pretty stupid in the first place, for both Epic and 40K.

It seemed to me that GW, at that time, were trying hard to make 40K 'Fantasy in Space' with all the Fantasy races having a direct 40K analogue.

stompydakka wrote:They are a joke. Players would get
"ha, ha, is that your army or your garden gnome collection? hurr hurr hurr"
a lot.

Pretty much this, and everything mentioned in the OP.

Renaming them as Demiurg and reintroducing them to the game in some capacity would be cool. If they were an allied unit for Tau, or part of some kind of mercenaries list (a man can dream) that would be nice. Having them be a standalone army? They'd need significant rejiggering.

I want them back because they are a joke. 40k has turned grimstupid and we need a nice kick back to the old days.

Think it sucks having to wait YEARS for armies to get updated? How will making another army improve that at all?

They are gone, they need to stay gone, it takes GW long enough to update all the codexes as is.

I voted yes. I own Squats. It was my first army when I was roughly 8 or 9 years old.



I shake my head at some of the reasons people don't like Squats. Let me address them;

1) Squats didn't sell well.

Incorrect. As a matter of fact, Squats sold very well. Squats were a very popular army while they existed. Who was the chap who posted about Squats some years ago as to why they were dropped? Was it Gav or Andy? I forget. I am sure some of you even have the link to that post, so I am not just making this up. I hope someone posts the link here too

He said that Squats sold very well, and people liked them. The reason why Squats were discontinued was for a single main reason; the Development team didn't know where to go with the Squats in terms of Fluff and Feel. Basically, the Design Team at the time was just LAZY and didn't feel like redesigning the Squats.

Squats were dropped because at the time, GW just didn't care.

2) Squats are a joke army.

Incorrect. Squats came out at a time when the ENTIRE 40k Universe was a late 80's sci-fantasy play on humor and jokes. Should I even list the various character names GW gave to ALL the races? I am sure you all can name 20 of them right off the bat. I mean, FFS, many of you still play with Margret Thatcher leading your Orks to war.

What about;

Space Clowns
Space Hobbits
Space Elfs
Space Ogres
Space Lizardmen
Space Undead
Space Orcs

Anyone own any Goff Rocker models? How about Slaneesh guitar wielding models? Anyone even play Gorkamorka? If anything Squats were one of the more SERIOUS of the armies in their fluff. Orks were the real joke army, and guess what? They stayed around.

Space Clowns... Really....

3) Squats won't fit into the dynamic of the game.

Incorrect. Marines have, what, 6 Armies, all essentially the same? 6 Armies that could easily just be shoved into one Codex. Hell, Chaos Space Marine Legions are more varied than Space Marines, and CSM have always been crammed into one book, but this subject is for another debate.

All GW had to do was NOT release Tau (I know it was released to please the Oriental Markets) and just release Squats/Demiurge instead. Squats could play just like the Tau and no one would have noticed.

Anyway, the first point I made is fact. If you read Gavs/Andys post, that spells it out plainly why they were dropped. The second point is my opinion, but people tend to forget the tongue in cheek humor the ENTIRE game had for its first two editions. My third point is just my opinion, but saying that Squats cannot find a spot in the 40k universe play style is essentially saying there can never be a new army introduced into the game.

Yes I know about release schedules sucking the more armies there are, but blame that on Marines. The release schedule reason is the only one I can agree with NOT adding Squats back into the game.