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Figured I could manage two projects on the go at the same time (the other being the Space Marine fandex).

To me, out of all of the Founding Chapters which didn't get their own codex, Iron Hands could easily fill an entire Codex with unique units and abilities. While they may not have much lore, the lore they do have is incredibly deep and detailed. Having an army which makes heavy uses of Bionics and potentially takes influence from the Adeptus Mechanicus in their units and wargear.

My goal for this Codex is to create a unique Space Marine force which doesn't simply feel like "Vanilla Marines with Bionics."

UPDATE - JUNE 2ND, 2012: I've actually restarted this project from the core up and I'm glad I did. Since I did this the Codex has not only been developing much more nicely, but in a very unique way. Mechanicus units are out (sorry for those that were anticipating and hoping for them), but the chapter units have been fleshed out much more significantly. Iron Fathers are going to be much more unique than I had originally made them. Cool new units like Morlock Terminators and Grootslang Devastator Squads have been added with more new units on the way.

The update/remake will include:
- More Bionics!
- More Special Characters!
- Wider variety of more interesting or unique units. An Elite Devastator Squad that have the rules Scouts do, can take Sniper Rifles, and can take a devastating array of Heavy Bolters or Missile Launchers? Assault Squads that can upgrade to have Personal Teleporters? Bike Squads that can upgrade to have Jetbikes? All this an more!
- More and better Mechanicus Relics!
- Much, much more!

Knight Titans?

Also, Dreads as HQ, Terminator sergeants, no Chaplains or Librarians (?) and an "Iron Father" (Chaplains) upgrade to Techmarines.

Vampirate of Sartosa wrote:Knight Titans?

Also, Dreads as HQ, Terminator sergeants, no Chaplains or Librarians (?) and an "Iron Father" (Chaplains) upgrade to Techmarines.

Venerable Dreadnoughts will be an HQ choice in Codex: Iron Hands. They will also have some nifty upgrades, such as a Dreadnought Chaplain upgrade. I'm also playing with ways to squeeze more Dreadnoughts into the army without breaking things.

Yup, Sergeants for a lot of squads (except for squads like Assault Squads, obviously) can be upgraded to have Terminator Armour. Even planning on letting a Terminator Sergeant for a Devastator Squad potentially being able to take an Assault Cannon or Missile Launcher.

Iron Fathers are a cross between a Master of the Forge and a Chaplain and are a key piece of Iron Hands organization, I'd be crazy to leave them out. Just a matter of balancing them and making them unique instead of just Techmarine + Chaplain rules.

If you can find some examples of a Knight Titan I'd appreciate it.

Are you going for more of a gunline style marine army? because all other sections seem to be filled (Jump Pack, Mech, Psyker army of doom, OTT devestators) I think it would be a cool and unique playstyle if they were not assault or close range centered, and not meched up..

Do you mean in terms of pictures or rules? Rules, I don't know. Pictures, http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Knight
General consensus on size seems to vary, but Dreadknight-size seems roughly accurate.

Vampirate of Sartosa wrote:Do you mean in terms of pictures or rules? Rules, I don't know. Pictures, http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Knight
General consensus on size seems to vary, but Dreadknight-size seems roughly accurate.

And they come in units instead of being solo or would solo work better for 40k? Also, Heavy Support choices I would assume?

Yeah Heavy support option. I would make them a bit like OTT Dreadknights, without the Psykery and GK stuff(Psycannons, NFW, and the like), and up the points.

In fact, ina What's New Today entry from a month or 2 ago, there was a Dreadknight converted with a Battle Cannon and a Hammer being used just as a TH that strikes in Int order, like the Daemon Hammer Dreadknight.



How are you going to be doing the Termy Sgts? Is it going to be like Wolf Guard, or will it be

"The Sgt may be upgraded with Terminator armour......???pts"


Also, I would think about allowing Assault Squads WITHOUT a JP to do it.

Deadshot wrote:Yeah Heavy support option. I would make them a bit like OTT Dreadknights, without the Psykery and GK stuff(Psycannons, NFW, and the like), and up the points.

In fact, ina What's New Today entry from a month or 2 ago, there was a Dreadknight converted with a Battle Cannon and a Hammer being used just as a TH that strikes in Int order, like the Daemon Hammer Dreadknight.



How are you going to be doing the Termy Sgts? Is it going to be like Wolf Guard, or will it be

"The Sgt may be upgraded with Terminator armour......???pts"


Also, I would think about allowing Assault Squads WITHOUT a JP to do it.

Yes, it will be an upgrade, not something automatic. There's nothing in the lore to state that all Sergeants are given it, just ones who have proven themselves or ones of exceptional ability.

Maybe only for Tacx squads, vets(other thanvanguard with JP), Command Squad's Champion or Equivilent. Basically anything ranked Tac Squads or up?

Deadshot wrote:Maybe only for Tacx squads, vets(other thanvanguard with JP), Command Squad's Champion or Equivilent. Basically anything ranked Tac Squads or up?

A lot of squads will have access to them, but they won't be automatic upgrades. I'm also going to have to modify the rules to say that Rhinos and Razorbacks can carry a single model in Terminator armour, but the model still counts as occupying two transport spaces.

Taking a page from the GK codex, Bulking out the force with SM based units with a second force org to represent the Adeptus.
Like inquisitors in GK, maybe selecting a Magos HQ would allow for a Scout Titan, or Improved POTS.

For techmarines, what about an option to 'resurrect' wrecked vehicles; returning them to play with 1/2 AVs and 1/2 movement speed.

Or Allow techmarines to replace vehicle crews, giving the vehicle the ability to ignore shaken/stunned, and fire at the techmarine's bs; auto repairing on a 4+ at the start of each movement phase.

Squadding tech marines like sanguinary priests is great.

Storm Shields, already have an established ruleset, but making a variant like 'battle shields' or something, though it's anti-fluff, would allow your codex to exist seamlessly alongside others.

Servo arms should, I agree, become more versatile, customized for different tasks, like a servo arm w/ servo skull that could fire a secondary weapon with a POTS like ability; or swing a power sword.

If the AM is involved, you could tweak standard SM weapons loadouts with things like bionic upgrades that give devastator squad type units desperately needed abilities like SNP and Acute Senses.

I always thought a good AM troops choice would be 4-9 servitors with a techmarine as 'sergeant' and just allow them to vary their loadout.

Obviously, bionic upgrades allows you to make some very diverse units with massive upgrade options; I look forward to seeing where you go with this.

junk wrote:Taking a page from the GK codex, Bulking out the force with SM based units with a second force org to represent the Adeptus.
Like inquisitors in GK, maybe selecting a Magos HQ would allow for a Scout Titan, or Improved POTS.

For techmarines, what about an option to 'resurrect' wrecked vehicles; returning them to play with 1/2 AVs and 1/2 movement speed.

Or Allow techmarines to replace vehicle crews, giving the vehicle the ability to ignore shaken/stunned, and fire at the techmarine's bs; auto repairing on a 4+ at the start of each movement phase.

Squadding tech marines like sanguinary priests is great.

Storm Shields, already have an established ruleset, but making a variant like 'battle shields' or something, though it's anti-fluff, would allow your codex to exist seamlessly alongside others.

Servo arms should, I agree, become more versatile, customized for different tasks, like a servo arm w/ servo skull that could fire a secondary weapon with a POTS like ability; or swing a power sword.

If the AM is involved, you could tweak standard SM weapons loadouts with things like bionic upgrades that give devastator squad type units desperately needed abilities like SNP and Acute Senses.

I always thought a good AM troops choice would be 4-9 servitors with a techmarine as 'sergeant' and just allow them to vary their loadout.

Obviously, bionic upgrades allows you to make some very diverse units with massive upgrade options; I look forward to seeing where you go with this.

On the issue of Storm Shields, my problem is that people might start asking "where are the Storm Shields?" However, I do see your point.

For the repairing rules I have something in mind now. Basically so long as an Iron Father or Techmarine is within 6" of a busted up vehicle (Weapon Destroyed or Immobilized) at the end of your turn you get to roll a D6 and on a roll of 5 or 6 you can repair one result. Plus ones for things like Servo-Arms and what not still apply. Each vehicle can only take one of these tests at the end of each of the owning player's turns, however.

I'm still playing around with Servo-Arm and Servo-Harness. Right now a Servo-Arm provides +1 Attack and a Servo-Harness provides +2 Attacks, a plasma pistol, and a flamer. It's pretty boring right now but in my mind the +1 Attack is an improvement over the single last-hit power fist smack anyways. It's a start. I may, as you have suggested, allow varying options for the Servo-Arms and Servo-Harnesses (actually, I'm really liking the idea at this point).

With the changes to Techmarines I'm making they are going to be a much more attractive unit choice. Bolster Defences is more of a buff ability rather than "choose a single piece of terrain and improve it." That, combined with the improved vehicle repair and being able to take three of them as a single Elites choice, should make them much more of an attractive choice.

I'm always looking for more ideas for Bionic Implants, so please feel free to fire any ideas my way via this post.

I have an interesting rule for normal Dreadnoughts. Instead of going the obvious route and making them Elites or Heavy Support, they are stock Elites choices. However, for each Iron Father and Techmarine in your army, you can take a Dreadnought at it's appropriate points cost that does not occupy any slots on the force organization chart. I felt that this was a much cooler way of doing things, allowed for more variance in the Elites and Heavy Support choices, and encourages players to take Iron Fathers and Techmarines.

I definitely like liberating dreadnoughts from force org... what if you could run them in squadrons, like landspeeders?

Also, open up dreadnought weapon selections - battle cannons, twin linked plasma cannons, etc...

Also, what about a superheavy dreadnought? AV 14/13/12.

Bionics:

Based on what the Adeptus Mechanicus uses, here's some ideas

Bionic Upgrade Options based on Adeptus Mechanicus Fluff.

Mind Impulse Unit- The adeptus mechanicus uses these for its Skitarii as a means of controlling weapons with their minds, they could confer the Relentless Special Rule, Increase Ballistic Skill, or function like Tau Target Locks, allowing units to split fire among multiple targets.

Implant Weaponry: Just like it sounds, Bionic weapons that are tied in to the controllers nervous system, making them more accurate and responsive in CC, +1 attack or +1 WS

Mechadendrites: Bionic tendrils, prehensile tentacle like limbs... maybe +1 ws, extra attacks, or treat them like Tyranid Lash Whips or Dark Eldar Shardnets, to reduce opponent's initiatives.

Bionic Organs: Probably convey Feel No Pain or in the case of enhanced endocrine systems, furious charge or fleet.

Other ideas -

Bionic Limbs could increase strength.
Bionic cerebral enhancements (wired reflexes) could increase initiative or grant fearlessness (rite of pure thought).

Digital weapons make for obvious upgrades.

There are a couple examples of imperials with bionic eyes, maybe extending range with certain weapons.

The electro-priests of the AM have bionic 'Electoo Circuits' covering their bodies that act as electric capacitors, these upgrades might provide Short range electro attacks, autowounding like poisoned weapons, or something like a small blast attack usable in assault... one of those 'center on this unit, any enemy models partially under the template suffer a str x hit' kind of things.

Massive bionic overhauls, 6 million dollar man style, might lead to very expensive super enhanced squads, kind of like GK paladins but with tech upgrades instead of psychic abilities.

Things like letting infantry models move like cavalry, or rolling 3d6 for running might be good to represent systemic bionic overhauls.

Nanites might provide regeneration to multi-wound models or self-repair to vehicles.

Look for ways to both benefit and limit your army; it's usually the limitations that make armies interesting, way more than just making things better.

Iron Hands are reknowned for being particularly ruthless, so I imagine a lot of rending weapons and blast markers.

Couldn't you make Techmarines Sargent upgrades, as well as an elites choice? It seems rather fitting for an Iron Hands squad..

junk wrote:I definitely like liberating dreadnoughts from force org... what if you could run them in squadrons, like landspeeders?

Also, open up dreadnought weapon selections - battle cannons, twin linked plasma cannons, etc...

Also, what about a superheavy dreadnought? AV 14/13/12.

Bionics:

Based on what the Adeptus Mechanicus uses, here's some ideas

Bionic Upgrade Options based on Adeptus Mechanicus Fluff.

Mind Impulse Unit- The adeptus mechanicus uses these for its Skitarii as a means of controlling weapons with their minds, they could confer the Relentless Special Rule, Increase Ballistic Skill, or function like Tau Target Locks, allowing units to split fire among multiple targets.

Implant Weaponry: Just like it sounds, Bionic weapons that are tied in to the controllers nervous system, making them more accurate and responsive in CC, +1 attack or +1 WS

Mechadendrites: Bionic tendrils, prehensile tentacle like limbs... maybe +1 ws, extra attacks, or treat them like Tyranid Lash Whips or Dark Eldar Shardnets, to reduce opponent's initiatives.

Bionic Organs: Probably convey Feel No Pain or in the case of enhanced endocrine systems, furious charge or fleet.

Other ideas -

Bionic Limbs could increase strength.
Bionic cerebral enhancements (wired reflexes) could increase initiative or grant fearlessness (rite of pure thought).

Digital weapons make for obvious upgrades.

There are a couple examples of imperials with bionic eyes, maybe extending range with certain weapons.

The electro-priests of the AM have bionic 'Electoo Circuits' covering their bodies that act as electric capacitors, these upgrades might provide Short range electro attacks, autowounding like poisoned weapons, or something like a small blast attack usable in assault... one of those 'center on this unit, any enemy models partially under the template suffer a str x hit' kind of things.

Massive bionic overhauls, 6 million dollar man style, might lead to very expensive super enhanced squads, kind of like GK paladins but with tech upgrades instead of psychic abilities.

Things like letting infantry models move like cavalry, or rolling 3d6 for running might be good to represent systemic bionic overhauls.

Nanites might provide regeneration to multi-wound models or self-repair to vehicles.

Look for ways to both benefit and limit your army; it's usually the limitations that make armies interesting, way more than just making things better.

Iron Hands are reknowned for being particularly ruthless, so I imagine a lot of rending weapons and blast markers.

I'll see what I can do about adding more Dreadnought weapons. I know I want to add a Heavy Conversion Beamer to the Dreadnought weapon set.

As for a "Heavy Dreadnought," I think the Imperial Knight unit will fill that role rather nicely so there is really no need to create another type of Dreadnought. Also, regular Dreads and Venerable Dreads can take an Assault Plating upgrade which boosts their Front Amour Value to 13.

Lord Magnus wrote:Couldn't you make Techmarines Sargent upgrades, as well as an elites choice? It seems rather fitting for an Iron Hands squad..

The problem with that is that there is nothing in the lore to support it. Plus, with the rule about being able to take Dreadnoughts as a no force org choice for each Techmarine and Iron Father you have, it would make things rather crazy pretty quick. I'd rather just keep things simple and have Terminator armour as upgrade for Sergeants. If you meant Terminators, then no, there will be no Terminator Squads as Iron Hands do not deploy their Terminator Armour in such a fashion.

What is really going to set them apart? Bionics? Termie Sarges? 9 Tech Marines? What will make the distinctly different and unique in playstyle from Vanilla Marines?

Lord Magnus wrote:What is really going to set them apart? Bionics? Termie Sarges? 9 Tech Marines? What will make the distinctly different and unique in playstyle from Vanilla Marines?

If you've been reading the posts, quite a lot. A good deal of squads will have access to Bionics. Certain squads that take Bionics will be able to take Bionic Implants. A good deal of squad Sergeants can be upgraded to have Terminator armour. The army can get very Dreadnought heavy pretty quick. No Librarians. Venerable Dreadnoughts are HQ and have access to a much wider array of wargear and options. Techmarines can be taken 3 for every one Elites choice. They'll have access to certain Adeptus Mechanicus units for added flair. Bike Squads can be upgraded to Jet Bike Squads. No Scout squads.

You can't just simply pick the list apart and say "well I can play these like Vanilla Marines." You can play virtually every Codex marine army (apart from maybe Space Wolves) as a Vanilla Marine-esque army. You're not going to escape that. Blood Angels are just jump pack-heavy Vanilla Marines, Dark Angels are pretty much Vanilla Marines with Terminator Squads or Ravenwing Squads as Troops. Black Templars are psyker-less Marines that have their Scout squads rolled into their Tactical Squads. When it comes down to it, you can really degrade any of the marine Codex armies to just offshoots of the Vanilla list.

What I meant by keeping it different was that I simply didn't want to slap every Codex: Space Marine unit in here, add a few special rules and call it a Codex. I'm trying to make Codex: Iron Hands as deviant from Codex: Space Marines as I possibly can without going either too overboard or not doing enough to differentiate them.

For bionics add something like
Leg bionic - adds fleet
arm bionic - adds FC or extra attack
eye bionic - add 6'' range to weapons or make weapons twin-linked

I say limit it by either making each squad may only have 1 bionic, and charge points per squad member
Or just an upgrade for the sergeant, and the ability is added to the squad, but if he takes term armor then they can't take bionics so there is a reason not to take the term upgrade

I thik that their Ven Dredas should be IC, and allowed to join other Dredas.

Before I list the current array of Bionic Implants I have, I will go over the rules for Bionics in the Codex.

There are two levels of Bionics: Bionics (1) and Bionics (2). Bionics (1) is what most standard units have access to and gives a Feel No Pain save of 5+. Bionics (2) is usually reserved for either standard units with extreme bionics or for IC with Bionics and provides a standard Feel No Pain save of 4+. The downside to Bionics, aside from costing points, is that units with Bionics cannot Run or make Sweeping Advances.

Now for a list of the Bionic Implants I have already (note that no one unit or model may take the same implant more than once).

Auto-Reactive Sensors
A unit with auto-reactive sensors gains +1 to their Initiative and may run and make sweeping advances (if they join another unit with Bionics, they lose the ability to run and make sweeping advances unless that unit also has auto-reactive sensors).

Auto-Sanguinary System
Models with an auto-sanguinary system get +1 to their base Toughness.

Improved Hydraulics
Models with improved hydraulics get +1 to their base Strength.

Internal Weapons System
This weapon does not take up the use of any of the unit's hands and can be fired in the Shooting phase. When you pick this implant, select one of the following: heavy flamer; plasma gun; or meltagun. The internal weapons system will have the ranged profile of the selected weapon.

Optical Implant
Models with an optical implant get +1 to their Ballistic Skill. Additionally, a unit with an optical implant (and any unit they join) will have the Night Vision universal special rule.

Stabilizing Systems
Models with stabilizing systems have the Relentless universal special rule (they do not confer this special rule to units they join).

I'm loving this - as far as ideas, my input would be thus:

1) The bionics are good - I can't think of anything more to add except perhaps mechadendrites (and I can see leaving those out - they're normally exclusively mechanicus)

2) You could add in a special rule: "The Flesh is Weak" similar to "Combat Tactics" in the normal SM dex.

"The Flesh is Weak, the Machine is Strong" - Models with this special rule are particularly ruthless. When fighting in close combat, every roll of 6 to wound inflicts two wounds. However, such is their fury at their own failing flesh, any rolls to wound of 1 are resolved against their own unit."

EDIT:

Or something else to depict their EXTREME (like, to the point of self-mutilation) dislike of failure, especially fleshy failure.

Unit1126PLL wrote:I'm loving this - as far as ideas, my input would be thus:

1) The bionics are good - I can't think of anything more to add except perhaps mechadendrites (and I can see leaving those out - they're normally exclusively mechanicus)

2) You could add in a special rule: "The Flesh is Weak" similar to "Combat Tactics" in the normal SM dex.

"The Flesh is Weak, the Machine is Strong" - Models with this special rule are particularly ruthless. When fighting in close combat, every roll of 6 to wound inflicts two wounds. However, such is their fury at their own failing flesh, any rolls to wound of 1 are resolved against their own unit."

EDIT:

Or something else to depict their EXTREME (like, to the point of self-mutilation) dislike of failure, especially fleshy failure.

Mechadendrites are part of a wargear section called Servo-harness Attachments and I'm gonna have it so that only Iron Fathers can take them. Still ironing out what they do.

Hmm, I get where you're coming from with the Flesh is Weak rule, but I don't want them wounding themselves. To me that's more of a Chaos trait. I'll leave the more extremist stuff to the Sons of Medusa (I plan on remaking Vaylund Cal, Chapter Master of the Sons of Medusa). I currently have the Iron Hands as simply being Stubborn, but I may work in something better.

Oh, and on a Dreadheavy army- the Iron Hands possibly have the least Dreadnoughts of any chapter. So, yeah.

Will the Sanguinary System (+1T) affect the ID threshhold?

Will the Internal Weapons system function like an Aux Grenade Luancher, Ie, it can be fired in addition to another gun?

Vampirate of Sartosa wrote:Oh, and on a Dreadheavy army- the Iron Hands possibly have the least Dreadnoughts of any chapter. So, yeah.

Key word being possibly. I can't find any lore to support them not being Dreadnought heavy or at least have the same amount of Dreadnoughts as any other chapters. If anything they have some of the most named Venerable Dreadnoughts in lore.

To me, them having less Dreadnoughts than normal simply doesn't make a lot of sense. They are some of the finest artisans of the Adeptus Astartes, so much so that their Techmarines go off to train with the Adeptus Mechanicus to become Iron Fathers and Masters of the Forge. One would assume that this would mean they could take extremely good care of MORE Dreadnoughts than is normal, not less. Additionally I see a lot of lore pointing towards them having lots of Venerable Dreadnoughts within their ranks, more-so than any other chapter.

I'm just going by the most up-to-date information I have available to me, hence why they are Dreadnought heavy. I have, however, changed things a bit. Removed the Dreadnought rule in favor of rules which allow for the use of more Venerable Dreadnoughts, basically being able to take up to 2-3 (haven't decided yet) Venerable Dreadnoughts as a single Headquarters choice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Deadshot wrote:Will the Sanguinary System (+1T) affect the ID threshhold?

Will the Internal Weapons system function like an Aux Grenade Luancher, Ie, it can be fired in addition to another gun?

Yes, the +1T will effect Instant Death. It won't be cheap, however, and only Independent Characters will have access to it.

As for the Internal Weapon System, not too sure about this yet. I want to say "yes", but I'm not 100% sure which will be more balanced at this point. Playtesting definitely required.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?categoryId=cat440313a&aId=2500028&_requestid=634540

The Iron Hands revere the limited number of Terminator suits and Dreadnoughts that they possess, and treat them with the utmost respect and devotion.

Apparently, most of their TDAs and Dreadnoughts were wiped out in a battle of some kind.

Vampirate of Sartosa wrote:http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?categoryId=cat440313a&aId=2500028&_requestid=634540

The Iron Hands revere the limited number of Terminator suits and Dreadnoughts that they possess, and treat them with the utmost respect and devotion.

Apparently, most of their TDAs and Dreadnoughts were wiped out in a battle of some kind.

Hmm, supports my changes then. You can have up to two Venerable Dreadnoughts as a single Headquarters choice, but Dreadnoughts are back to being one for each Elites entry.

Vampirate of Sartosa wrote:Knight Titans?

You mean Knights, right?

"Smaller and less powerful one-man versions of titans". I used "Knight Titans" rather than "Knights" to be more specific.

Have you guys thought about what to do for knight titan rules? Will you make them similar to the dreadknight?