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For the Humans, the Emperor's rebirth is the future of their race. But what of the Eldar? Even when Ynnead is created, it will take the death of every living Craftworld Eldar to achieve, so what is the future of the Eldar race? Will their race have a future, considering that only the Harlequins and the Dark Eldar will be left? Will their gods return like the loyal Primarchs?

They will all die out in the end. With the remaining Eldar hiding among Human population and live until they die, leaving half Human-Eldar behind them.

Don't see how that's gonna happen unless the Emperor is reborn, since He's the only one with the authority and vision to offer hybrids asylum in exchange for technology and information. But it begs another question, if Ynnead drains the life and souls of the Craftworld Eldar to come into existence, can he/she/it even defeat the Dark Prince?

Depends on what you mean by hope. Rhana Dandra as described in the 2nd edition, 4th edition Eldar Codices is like Ragnarok: resulting in the mutual destruction of Chaos and the material universe. Compared to endless torment at the hands of Slaanesh, oblivion may be a mercy. Also I suppose one could speculate whether there would be a new creation after the death of the old. However nothing explicit is said about this.

Viewed from another perspective, it can be viewed as the bitter Eldar race's mutually assured destruction. If they cannot have the galaxy, they will make sure no one else does, especially not Chaos.

However from Dec. 2010 WD, on the Dark Eldar Kabals, we find the Kabal of the Last Hatred:

Interested in "forbidden arts" and death/necromancy. Some rumor they aim to rise beyond mortality or exterminate the Eldar race and enslave whatever entity is born from the ashes (?Ynnead). Apparently they wage war against the Craftworld Eldar and Exodites with unmatched fury. Also famous for keeping captives alive while wringing out every last bit of suffering, and now able to bind souls to the cadavers permanently. Color scheme: The purple edged black with the blue rectangular detailing.

If they indeed plan to exterminate the Eldar race and enslave Ynnead, then it suggests somehow they plan to survive Ynnead's awakening and presumably think they can avoid, avert, or survive the destruction of the Rhana Dandra.

Tadashi wrote:But it begs another question, if Ynnead drains the life and souls of the Craftworld Eldar to come into existence, can he/she/it even defeat the Dark Prince?

This is unknown. In the Craftworld Eldar Codex, Eldrad questions this too but then avoids the issue by trying to have hope or faith. Even though Eldar souls are more individually powerful than human souls, Slaanesh has a large population of human followers to draw power from, which might still overwhelm through sheer number. It is like someone receiving 100 dollars versus someone getting a million pennies. The latter actually has more.

The problem with that is simply that the Reborn Emperor and the Guardian Harlequins will never let that happen. And can Rhana Dandra even happen when the Emperor is supposedly keeping the warp from spilling out into reality, or will something squeeze through during the brief moments while He's rebuiliding His body shortly after the Golden Throne fails. Or are the Space Marines and Custodians meant to be the Emperor's failsafes?

I think the idea behind Ynnead is that, when he/she/it awakens it will kill Slaanesh therefore making it safe for the Eldars souls to go into the warp and be reborn. Part of the reason that their numbers are dwindeling is that (without a soulstone collecting the soul, or the laughing god snatching it up first) their soul is being instantly eaten by Chaos as it enters the warp.

Its not a matter of their gods returning, most of them are dead. With Slaanesh gone Cegorach wouldnt have to hide around the webway though and if the rumours are true, Isha might be able to be freed from Nurgle. Khaine was broken up into the Avatars, many of which have been destroyed, so I dont know if it would be possible for him to come back. All the others (except Ynnead obviously) are history though.

Gorechild wrote:I think the idea behind Ynnead is that, when he/she/it awakens it will kill Slaanesh therefore making it safe for the Eldars souls to go into the warp and be reborn. Part of the reason that their numbers are dwindeling is that (without a soulstone collecting the soul, or the laughing god snatching it up first) their soul is being instantly eaten by Chaos as it enters the warp.

That's not why their numbers are dwindling. Even in the modern 40K era we see Eldar have children. All of the main characters in Path of the Warrior and Path of the Seer remember their childhood. Furthermore, in the 3rd edition Eldar Codex, Kysaduras complains about how young Eldar have not learned the lesson of Slaanesh and mock the tales of Slaanesh that once frightened them as chidlren. This again indicates Eldar are being born after the birth of Slaanesh. Thus there are new Eldar souls still being produced if there are still Eldar being born and since soulstones just go into the Infinity Circuit to be stored. The supply of souls cannot be finite for there to be still normal souled Eldar children.

Well at least it means that murderer Fulgrim and his perverted buddies will be finished with their monstrous deity.

Iracundus wrote:

Gorechild wrote:I think the idea behind Ynnead is that, when he/she/it awakens it will kill Slaanesh therefore making it safe for the Eldars souls to go into the warp and be reborn. Part of the reason that their numbers are dwindeling is that (without a soulstone collecting the soul, or the laughing god snatching it up first) their soul is being instantly eaten by Chaos as it enters the warp.

That's not why their numbers are dwindling. Even in the modern 40K era we see Eldar have children. All of the main characters in Path of the Warrior and Path of the Seer remember their childhood. Furthermore, in the 3rd edition Eldar Codex, Kysaduras complains about how young Eldar have not learned the lesson of Slaanesh and mock the tales of Slaanesh that once frightened them as chidlren. This again indicates Eldar are being born after the birth of Slaanesh. Thus there are new Eldar souls still being produced if there are still Eldar being born and since soulstones just go into the Infinity Circuit to be stored. The supply of souls cannot be finite for there to be still normal souled Eldar children.

I'm sure that while Eldar can't reincarnate (apparently, fully-realized Human psykers like the ancestral shamans that preceded the Emperor could do it too), they can still generate new souls whenever a new Eldar child is made. As for declining population, it's probably because most Eldar see sexual relationships as distasteful and decadent to the point that they can't really keep up with the death rate, both natural and otherwise.

Tadashi wrote:
I'm sure that while Eldar can't reincarnate (apparently, fully-realized Human psykers like the ancestral shamans that preceded the Emperor could do it too), they can still generate new souls whenever a new Eldar child is made. As for declining population, it's probably because most Eldar see sexual relationships as distasteful and decadent to the point that they can't really keep up with the death rate, both natural and otherwise.

One doesn't need to go that far even. We see a similar phenomenon today in developed 1st World countries. The cost of raising a child is so high that people delay having a child (and have fewer in total) or not have any at all.

Remember the Eldar individually as shown in Path of the Warrior and Path of the Seer have a high standard of living with a lot of time devoted to artistic, cultural, and non-military pursuits. Given their long lives, they may also have long gestational periods (and also have requirement for multiple transmissions of genetic material if one believes Xenology). Reproduction may not occur til later in life, and maturation as an individual may take a long time due to all the nuances of Eldar etiquette and culture that any child would need to pick up. In Path of the Warrior, two of the Eldar characters joke about sexual relations, and they are both from Alaitoc, one of the stricter Craftworlds, so it doesn't appear there is a huge taboo against sexual relationships.

Meanwhile, the rest of the galaxy is in turmoil and the Eldar have to fend off threats from all directions. Sheer attrition can account for a declining population.

Alaitocii are irritating. They're the Eldar equivalent of the Black Templars, if the Ulthwe are the Eldar equivalent of the Thousand Sons/Blood Ravens. They're just too puritan.

Tadashi wrote:Alaitocii are irritating. They're the Eldar equivalent of the Black Templars, if the Ulthwe are the Eldar equivalent of the Thousand Sons/Blood Ravens. They're just too puritan.

Considering the Eldar empire fell because of a lack of self control, the Alaitoc position is understandable. Certainly from their perspective and even that of other Craftworlds, Saim-hann goes too far towards repeating the old mistakes, with just an apparent veneer of Eldar Paths covering up the old Eldar ways.

Each of the Craftworlds is their own society and though they may share common culture and myths, they are still separate nation-states. Like all nations, they can view their own way of doing things as the "right" way.

For all their strictness, Alaitoc still accepts back Outcasts that want to return. "What happens off the Craftworld stays off the Craftworld".

Tadashi wrote:For the Humans, the Emperor's rebirth is the future of their race. But what of the Eldar? Even when Ynnead is created, it will take the death of every living Craftworld Eldar to achieve, so what is the future of the Eldar race? Will their race have a future, considering that only the Harlequins and the Dark Eldar will be left? Will their gods return like the loyal Primarchs?

The carriongod's rebirth ( which is mostly believed by the Thorian faction ) and the return of the loyal primarchs ( who could just as well be dead ) is far from certain, just like the Eldar believe that they somehow create Ynnead ( after all, their souls are in the infinity circuits of their craftworlds which aren't linked to each other, how exactly would that create a warpgod? ).
The future of the Eldar species as a whole is uncertain. Biel-Tan aims to recreate the old Eldar Empire, other Craftworlds have different plans, one even plans to leave the Galaxy.

Iracundus wrote:

Tadashi wrote:Alaitocii are irritating. They're the Eldar equivalent of the Black Templars, if the Ulthwe are the Eldar equivalent of the Thousand Sons/Blood Ravens. They're just too puritan.

Considering the Eldar empire fell because of a lack of self control, the Alaitoc position is understandable. Certainly from their perspective and even that of other Craftworlds, Saim-hann goes too far towards repeating the old mistakes, with just an apparent veneer of Eldar Paths covering up the old Eldar ways.

Each of the Craftworlds is their own society and though they may share common culture and myths, they are still separate nation-states. Like all nations, they can view their own way of doing things as the "right" way.

For all their strictness, Alaitoc still accepts back Outcasts that want to return. "What happens off the Craftworld stays off the Craftworld".

Regarding outcasts, don't all Craftworlds accept the outcasts once they agree to return to the paths? As for Saim-Hann, I could compare them to the Space Wolves. Biel-Tan are the best.

But this is off-topic. The question remains: what kind of future does the Eldar have, and will they have enough numbers to confront the Reborn Emperor and His rebuilt Imperium? Assuming that the Reborn Emperor doesn't make an arrangement with the surviving Eldar/survivors of the Rhana Dandra.

KingDeath wrote:
The carriongod's rebirth ( which is mostly believed by the Thorian faction ) and the return of the loyal primarchs ( who could just as well be dead ) is far from certain, just like the Eldar believe that they somehow create Ynnead ( after all, their souls are in the infinity circuits of their craftworlds which aren't linked to each other, how exactly would that create a warpgod? ).

The souls in the Infinity Circuits apparently ARE linked to each other through something called the Eternal Matrix, first mentioned by Eldrad in the 3rd edition Craftworld Eldar Codex.

KingDeath wrote:

Tadashi wrote:For the Humans, the Emperor's rebirth is the future of their race. But what of the Eldar? Even when Ynnead is created, it will take the death of every living Craftworld Eldar to achieve, so what is the future of the Eldar race? Will their race have a future, considering that only the Harlequins and the Dark Eldar will be left? Will their gods return like the loyal Primarchs?

The carriongod's rebirth ( which is mostly believed by the Thorian faction ) and the return of the loyal primarchs ( who could just as well be dead ) is far from certain, just like the Eldar believe that they somehow create Ynnead ( after all, their souls are in the infinity circuits of their craftworlds which aren't linked to each other, how exactly would that create a warpgod? ).
The future of the Eldar species as a whole is uncertain. Biel-Tan aims to recreate the old Eldar Empire, other Craftworlds have different plans, one even plans to leave the Galaxy.

They probably intend to link the Circuits as one once the souls reach "critical mass".

Tadashi wrote:

KingDeath wrote:

Tadashi wrote:For the Humans, the Emperor's rebirth is the future of their race. But what of the Eldar? Even when Ynnead is created, it will take the death of every living Craftworld Eldar to achieve, so what is the future of the Eldar race? Will their race have a future, considering that only the Harlequins and the Dark Eldar will be left? Will their gods return like the loyal Primarchs?

The carriongod's rebirth ( which is mostly believed by the Thorian faction ) and the return of the loyal primarchs ( who could just as well be dead ) is far from certain, just like the Eldar believe that they somehow create Ynnead ( after all, their souls are in the infinity circuits of their craftworlds which aren't linked to each other, how exactly would that create a warpgod? ).
The future of the Eldar species as a whole is uncertain. Biel-Tan aims to recreate the old Eldar Empire, other Craftworlds have different plans, one even plans to leave the Galaxy.

They probably intend to link the Circuits as one once the souls reach "critical mass".

As I mentioned in my last post, they already are linked. Read Eldrad's little scene in the 3rd edition Craftworld Eldar Codex (not the main 3rd ed. Eldar Codex). He is able to listen in to the hum of activity on both his own Craftworld, and more distantly that of other Craftworlds, and when experienced as a gestalt whole, he senses a slow pulse, like that of a heartbeat, for the still unawakened Ynnead.

Iracundus wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

KingDeath wrote:

Tadashi wrote:For the Humans, the Emperor's rebirth is the future of their race. But what of the Eldar? Even when Ynnead is created, it will take the death of every living Craftworld Eldar to achieve, so what is the future of the Eldar race? Will their race have a future, considering that only the Harlequins and the Dark Eldar will be left? Will their gods return like the loyal Primarchs?

The carriongod's rebirth ( which is mostly believed by the Thorian faction ) and the return of the loyal primarchs ( who could just as well be dead ) is far from certain, just like the Eldar believe that they somehow create Ynnead ( after all, their souls are in the infinity circuits of their craftworlds which aren't linked to each other, how exactly would that create a warpgod? ).
The future of the Eldar species as a whole is uncertain. Biel-Tan aims to recreate the old Eldar Empire, other Craftworlds have different plans, one even plans to leave the Galaxy.

They probably intend to link the Circuits as one once the souls reach "critical mass".

As I mentioned in my last post, they already are linked. Read Eldrad's little scene in the 3rd edition Craftworld Eldar Codex (not the main 3rd ed. Eldar Codex). He is able to listen in to the hum of activity on both his own Craftworld, and more distantly that of other Craftworlds, and
when experienced as a gestalt whole, he senses a slow pulse, like that of a heartbeat, for the still unawakened Ynnead.

This is just my opinion, but the whole Ynnead thing is kinda like the Hydra from the Inquisition Wars trilogy. Draco and the other Illuminati were willing to compromise secrecy just to warn the Emperor of the threat it posed, although what the Emperor did to prevent it remains a mystery.

Of course, it could end like a collective reincarnation like the Emperor, or the birth of a benign warp entity, except to Slaanesh of course, but still...

Gorechild wrote:I think the idea behind Ynnead is that, when he/she/it awakens it will kill Slaanesh therefore making it safe for the Eldars souls to go into the warp and be reborn.

^ This.

Also, I don't recall having read about the Craftworlds fighting to restore their empire (though I might be wrong, it's been long since I last gave the Eldar 'dex a good read). Leave that to the materialistic, imperialist Necrons. The day Slaanesh is defeated and they can die in peace, they'll probably let themselves go.

Agent_Tremolo wrote:Also, I don't recall having read about the Craftworlds fighting to restore their empire (though I might be wrong, it's been long since I last gave the Eldar 'dex a good read).

I believe that Biel-Tan is the only major craftworld that's currently trying to restore the empire. The rest just seem to be trying to prevent/slow down their extinction, rather than activly trying to rebuild what they lost.

Tadashi wrote: As for declining population, it's probably because most Eldar see sexual relationships as distasteful and decadent to the point that they can't really keep up with the death rate, both natural and otherwise.

All things in Eldar society are supposed to be stylized into the Way... so go go Path of Childbearing and the associated Path of the Hooker

Tadashi wrote:Don't see how that's gonna happen unless the Emperor is reborn, since He's the only one with the authority and vision to offer hybrids asylum in exchange for technology and information. But it begs another question, if Ynnead drains the life and souls of the Craftworld Eldar to come into existence, can he/she/it even defeat the Dark Prince?

Well my opinion would be that Ynnead doesn't stand a chance. Slaanesh absorbed a lot more Eldar souls on its birth, and it is constantly fed by the Dark Eldar and those that worship it, as well as the obsessions or lust of those that don't. Even considering the drain that the Great Game must put on Slaanesh's resources, it comes out far above a few generations of Eldar.

As for the future of the Eldar, if Ynnead wakes up, they die. If Slaanesh beats Ynnead, every Eldar that made him spends the rest of eternity in toture.

As I recal from what little text I have read, the Eldar souls in the Infinity Circuits seem to be lobotomized. So I don't think they would realy be worth torturing, kind of like eating celary, you can, but the work you put in is still less than what you get out of it.

So what if they are using the Infinity Circuit for 2 things:
1) Protect their souls from Slaanesh
and
2) Build up to a critical mass with which to awaken Ynnead

Vice_Grip wrote:As I recal from what little text I have read, the Eldar souls in the Infinity Circuits seem to be lobotomized. So I don't think they would realy be worth torturing, kind of like eating celary, you can, but the work you put in is still less than what you get out of it.

So what if they are using the Infinity Circuit for 2 things:
1) Protect their souls from Slaanesh
and
2) Build up to a critical mass with which to awaken Ynnead

I don't think so. Fusions of souls (the Emperor, Slaanesh) are more than just the sum of their parts; they're also the product. Otherwise, the Emperor wouldn't have a mind of His own, instead responding to the voices of His "oversoul", although this doesn't appear to be the case, as it's clearly seen that the Emperor is an individual, not a person with multiple personalities (even if He says we, real world monarchs address themselves as we as well). And Slaanesh would be an Eldar God if he/she/it was only a sum, since Slaanesh is a Chaos Power, then Slaanesh is also a product, not just a sum.

The future of the eldar has always been a circus of sad faces according to official canon. So the future of the eldar is atop a chaos champion's trophy rack.

CuddlySquig wrote:The future of the eldar has always been a circus of sad faces according to official canon. So the future of the eldar is atop a chaos champion's trophy rack.

I would prefer them as a 'client' of the Imperium. Of course, that's just me, but I'm not a monster who'd condemn an entire race to Slaanesh. The Inquisition and the Ecclesiarchy may lack honor and nobility, but Space Marines are noble warriors. Most of them anyway, Blood Ravens included.

And by the way, in warrior cultures, nobility include not showing mercy on the battlefield, but being respectful off it, and showing mercy where it is appropriate.

Geez all your guys threads are completely anti xenos and just GO IMPERIUM! Why not just have one thread where you bash all the other races instead of flooding us with a new one each week? But as far as the Eldar's future is concerned they are just trying to survive and hopping for various different things depending on which craftworld they are. Like a previous poster said they may be hopping to return the Eldar Empire to its former glory or to leave to another galaxy. But they are similar to the Imperium's background, most notably space marines. Some are waiting for the return of their primarch, others the Emperor, etc etc. They have just as much hope as any other race

darkcloud92 wrote:Geez all your guys threads are completely anti xenos and just GO IMPERIUM! Why not just have one thread where you bash all the other races instead of flooding us with a new one each week? But as far as the Eldar's future is concerned they are just trying to survive and hopping for various different things depending on which craftworld they are. Like a previous poster said they may be hopping to return the Eldar Empire to its former glory or to leave to another galaxy. But they are similar to the Imperium's background, most notably space marines. Some are waiting for the return of their primarch, others the Emperor, etc etc. They have just as much hope as any other race

Is there a problem, Tau fanboy?

At least the Eldar know better about the galaxy. And I fail to see how this thread bashes the Eldar. We're just discussing the future of the Eldar race, and that includes how they intend to deal with the future of the Imperium as well.

The Eldar future is extinction. There's not enough of them left, and their dreams of having some kind of reborn god, in a plane that is all about emotion and desire, from a culture that represses these very things, is a pipe dream.

The Eldar are meant to be a tragic player in the drama of 40K. This is a race that had it all, lost it (through their own decadence) and now fight to defend the few things they have left (not always successfully), losing more soldiers in a single battle than their race can replace in a year. Also true, the younger generations of the Eldar see Slaanesh mostly as a fictional boogeyman, they have no direct memories of the Fall, or the millennia afterwards, or at all of the pre-Fall empire.

They're a cautionary lesson to the Imperium, relics of an age long past, of an age that is dead and gone and will never be again. There may come a time, at some point, where a few Maiden Worlds are given to the Eldar as a sort of reservation, by the Imperium, but this only prolongs the inevitable... and, also, gives Slaanesh a target to focus Hir servants' attention in order to get at these tasty, pointy-eared bon bons.

The Eldar do, indeed, have hope... they've apparently failed to learn the lesson that hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.

Iracundus wrote:

Gorechild wrote:I think the idea behind Ynnead is that, when he/she/it awakens it will kill Slaanesh therefore making it safe for the Eldars souls to go into the warp and be reborn. Part of the reason that their numbers are dwindeling is that (without a soulstone collecting the soul, or the laughing god snatching it up first) their soul is being instantly eaten by Chaos as it enters the warp.

That's not why their numbers are dwindling. Even in the modern 40K era we see Eldar have children. All of the main characters in Path of the Warrior and Path of the Seer remember their childhood. Furthermore, in the 3rd edition Eldar Codex, Kysaduras complains about how young Eldar have not learned the lesson of Slaanesh and mock the tales of Slaanesh that once frightened them as chidlren. This again indicates Eldar are being born after the birth of Slaanesh. Thus there are new Eldar souls still being produced if there are still Eldar being born and since soulstones just go into the Infinity Circuit to be stored. The supply of souls cannot be finite for there to be still normal souled Eldar children.

DE certainly have children and they also have tons of test tube babies. Their numbers are if anything growing.

Psienesis wrote:
They're a cautionary lesson to the Imperium, relics of an age long past, of an age that is dead and gone and will never be again. There may come a time, at some point, where a few Maiden Worlds are given to the Eldar as a sort of reservation, by the Imperium, but this only prolongs the inevitable... and, also, gives Slaanesh a target to focus Hir servants' attention in order to get at these tasty, pointy-eared bon bons.

The Eldar do, indeed, have hope... they've apparently failed to learn the lesson that hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.

I was under the impression that Lord Guilliman believed that hope was a powerful weapon should it be used properly.

As for the idea of reservations, doesn't that mean that the Eldar are obliged to provide assistance to the Imperium and the Imperium in turn is obliged to protect the surviving Eldar? I'm not sure that our races are cordial enough for that to happen.

Exergy wrote:

Iracundus wrote:

Gorechild wrote:I think the idea behind Ynnead is that, when he/she/it awakens it will kill Slaanesh therefore making it safe for the Eldars souls to go into the warp and be reborn. Part of the reason that their numbers are dwindeling is that (without a soulstone collecting the soul, or the laughing god snatching it up first) their soul is being instantly eaten by Chaos as it enters the warp.

That's not why their numbers are dwindling. Even in the modern 40K era we see Eldar have children. All of the main characters in Path of the Warrior and Path of the Seer remember their childhood. Furthermore, in the 3rd edition Eldar Codex, Kysaduras complains about how young Eldar have not learned the lesson of Slaanesh and mock the tales of Slaanesh that once frightened them as chidlren. This again indicates Eldar are being born after the birth of Slaanesh. Thus there are new Eldar souls still being produced if there are still Eldar being born and since soulstones just go into the Infinity Circuit to be stored. The supply of souls cannot be finite for there to be still normal souled Eldar children.

DE certainly have children and they also have tons of test tube babies. Their numbers are if anything growing.

Which is bad. Craftworld Eldar are hard enough to deal with already. How much harder if all the Craftworlders are dead, and we have to deal with the Dark Eldar ourselves? We don't have the resources we used to have...come to think of it, only a full Expeditionary Fleet from the Great Crusade has a chance to destroy Commoragh.