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Any word on being able to attach certain units to platoons if certain criteria is met? i.e. mechanize the platoon and you get to attach a Hellhound to the formation?

OverchargeThis! wrote:Buxom, if it has a different statline and a different description, it's a different weapon. hotshot lasgun should not be considered lasguns. Obviously, I haven't read the codex, but unless it explicitly states otherwise, the hotshot lasgun will not get the first rank fire,second rank fire rule.

That's what I'm assuming, but info on Stormtroopers keeps flip-flopping back and forth... which keeps us entertained I guess. I expect it's just going to be one of those things where it depends on the exact wording - of both whether "hot shot lasguns" are considered lasguns (I find it odd that GW change the name in the same edition they introduce a lasgun-only special rule) and the "First rank fire! Second rank fire!" Order.

Well, I am going to assume that the Order does not apply to ST. (but obviously, i'm hoping to be proven wrong!)

Rosicrucian: Al'Rahem has an order where your unit can shoot and then immediately run d6". He still has his beast of a sword - causes instant death. Al'Rahem is an upgrade to a platoon command squad, you pay your points and he replaces the junior officer.

Dexy: Earthshaker each round is how I remember it, but I think it might be safer to assume the same as a marine chapter master and one per game. Still, the astropath / fleet advisor works every turn so why not.

Anung Un Rama: No Storm Troopers as troops. Can get vets as troops and give them carapace with the grenadiers option. BS4, 4+ save but no hotshots, so not far off Storm Troopers, but you do get 3 SW and a heavy in there.

Weapons wise, the hot shot is an improved power pack for lasguns. Stormtroopers used to pack them back in 2nd ed. The idea is more punch but less accurate at distance. Over the editons Hotshot lasguns became Hellguns, now they have changed ( in english, nice one for pointing that out about the french names H.M.B.C ) back to hot shot lasguns. So Stormtroopers now pack 18" rapid fire S3 Ap3 hot shot lasguns.

Gestalt: Penal legion have lasguns. Roll d6 at deployment to see what they have been up to. 1-2 is assault 2 lasguns. 3-4 is fleet, move through cover and furious charge. 5-6 is rending.

Hunting lances are identical to what they are now. Would be a bit rubbish if your one shot boom sticks got chopped down by a squad of marines who strike before you in initiative order.

focusedfire: Np, i'll clarify the squadrons for you all. Russes - HS - any mix you like is 1-3 in a squadron ( 3 Demolishers. 2LRMBT and an Executioner. Punisher + exterminator + vanquisher ). Artillery - HS - same again, 1-3 of anything you like in a squadron. Valkries - FA - 1-3 just Valkries i'm afraid. Vendettas - FA - again just 1-3 Vendettas. ( no mixing valkries and vendettas. seperate force org choices )

In all cases you may take more than one squadron so you may max out for force org with 9 russes and 9 valkries..

Russes, same with the other squadrons, are limited to the big black book for what they can do.

I think it is Al'Rahem that lets squads in his platoon infiltrate. So no Ogryns.

Scottywan82: Infantry squads may only have one special and one heavy. The special may be a sniper rifle - no funky tricks or characters allowing it, it's just a standard option.

I really can't tell you about sw / hw in a consript squad, didn't look at them for long enough.

I have not seen the sprues for the Valkrie so no idea what is in it. Didn't get shown. He did size up the base to the dragon though so that is a certainty. ( GW newsletter links to the valk on the gw site and mentions only valkrie weapon fits. )

I'm fairly sure track guards are still in there. And no idea about the vox w/ lasgun.

Khornatedemon: One tank may take Knight commander Pask. I noted that his special rules were very perculiar. He has two rules, the first says blahblahblah' a tank with him in it may use his Bs of 4. Fairly straight forward. His other rule says that blahblahblah' Any tank with him in it, that remains stationary may use his Bs of 4'.

Very very odd. Plus no mention of the crack shot you've heard, so you'll be getting cover saves and no +1 pen. He dies when the tank is destroyed too. He aint got no power armour.

ubermosher: Techpriest takes up no force org slot, fixes tanks and allows you to buy a unit of mindlocked servitors. They are the only things I noted about him.

Raxmei: Far from it! I feel it's quite important. CHQ is just your commander and his 4 guardsmen + bodyguards and your advisors. The Platoons are the only ones who have access to the Hw / Sw squads now. Means they are scoring. Mortar squad sat on an objective that you placed out of LoS sounds good to me. Heavy platoons from the HS slot are gone too.

Gestalt: Commissar Lord is an IC. I can't remember the specifics but they are Ld related, fleeing / rallying.

I get a day off work on Tuesday so i'll make a point to get another look at the dex for you all, and i'll try and cover the things your after and more.

Awesome info Middle


Do SWS/HWS have options for Voxes?
Are Voxes an upgrade or do they come standard in an Infantry Squad?
Do we have to pay for a "Master Vox" for our CHQ?

Also, did you get a good look at the WarGear options for Officers? Any cool little doodads?



PS. Did you see if ST "targeters" allow them to reroll misses?

So any confirmation on vendetta pricing? Does it upgrade to the lascanons or is that standard for the !135 point price thats been rumored (don't need to say what the number is, just whether the rumors are accurate).

BrookM: I did hear a rumour similar to that, but no, you get your massive Platoons and if you want tanks you buy them from HS. Would be nice if they went back to 2nd ed for the additional units way of working out your army. You can still play it by the fluff - Buy a platoon then buy them some hellhounds, buy a platoon and then give them some ratlings and a russ.

Would be a nice way of putting fluff on the board but I don't think it would fit too well with the current force orgs.

BoxANT: Tuesday shall bring all your vox answers ( hopefully you won't explode by then from vox deficiency )

Keep throwing your questions in, if I know them i'll let you know but if not i'll make a point to check it out for you.

The big one i'll check is Hotshot / FRFSRF!

I have a few questions:

1. What Special Characters alter the FOC and/or the general special rules for the whole army (assuming any of them do this).

2. Do any non-Special Character choices alter the FOC (ala Marine Captains on Bikes making Bikes Troops).

3. Please find out for us what the Order actually do, who they can be applied to (and what weapons), who can't use Orders, and if there are any special Orders (be they tied to specific squads or Special Characters. Guard now hinge on these orders, and so far we've got a bunch of half-confirmations.

4. What is the set up of a Command Squad (and Platoon Command Sections for that matter). Are Standard Bearers/Medics automatic in these units, or optional?

5. What do Commissars do (this includes the Lord) and is the Power Fist really arbitrarily restricted from regular Commissars? Can they/how do they attach to units?

6. Do H-Vets have a variable squad size, or are they 5/10, just 10 etc. Do they require 10 men before they can get 3 Special Weapons?

That's all from me.

middle wrote:

BoxANT: Tuesday shall bring all your vox answers ( hopefully you won't explode by then from vox deficiency )

From what I saw not a single thing moves anything about in the force orgs. Everything is set in stone. Ofcourse i'll double check to be on the safe side.

Not too sure where the Commissar lord sits in the force org but he is an IC so can join anyone. I noticed that a basic infantry squad may take a Commissar for 35pts. I will assume that you no longer assign them from top down, and that units that can have them just buy them for x amount of points. Does mean that when you mash together your 5 infantry squads you can have upto 5 commissars in there too. Not IC's so no extra kp's.

I'm fairly certain vets are still 5-10, I'll check that one out for you especially concerning the buying of sw / hw. I'll also find out if you can still sneak a heroic senior officer in there.

BoxANT: Haha. Oh noes, too late.

Wow, if vets are a 5-10 unit, that really changes things Especially if you can still take 3 SW in that 5man squad! Of course, I have to be a bit skeptical, since this would make SWS almost completely worthless (like they are now).


If you get a chance, try to sneak a peak at Conscripts and see what's up with them. I am thinking there must be a special rule for them (if they are indeed 40pts a squad). For a 10pt savings, loosing 1 WS/BS and 3 Ld is pretty steep imo, especially considering you can just merge normal infantry platoons for the same effect.

Do rough riders still automatically use their lances on the first charge, or can they choose not to use them? This is pretty important against vehicles.

Thanks middle, this really helps in planning my traitor guard army.

One more question: Are there any units that can take pistols and cc weapons instead of normal lasguns?

Edit: Oh, 2 more:
- Which units can have shotguns?
- I heard rumors about heavy stubbers as a weapon option for squads. Is that true? And is it a heavy weapon?

Anung Un Rama wrote:Thanks middle, this really helps in planning my traitor guard army.

One more question: Are there any units that can take pistols and cc weapons instead of normal lasguns?

Edit: Oh, 2 more:
- Which units can have shotguns?
- I heard rumors about heavy stubbers as a weapon option for squads. Is that true? And is it a heavy weapon?

These are three questions that I would never ask... And if the answers were #1 all #2 all and #3 yes and no then I would not care in the slightest. Not that these are bad questions, don't get me wrong, but because I don't think that IG will ever ever ever ever be a valid assault army. If you are building for assault, good luck and my hat is off to you.

Thanks for the info middle, if vets are really still 5-10 then this is great news for me.

Anung Un Rama wrote:Thanks middle, this really helps in planning my traitor guard army.

One more question: Are there any units that can take pistols and cc weapons instead of normal lasguns?

Edit: Oh, 2 more:
- Which units can have shotguns?
- I heard rumors about heavy stubbers as a weapon option for squads. Is that true? And is it a heavy weapon?

I'd asked Reds8n the shotgun question awhile back via PM and he answered back that Vets can have shotguns as well as folks in Command Squads.

Quick one from me, didn't see that you had answered it yet but if you did, sorry for asking you to repeat yourself.

Are Ogryns tough 5 with FNP, or just one or the other. And if so, what do they cost? A terminator? Less, More?

Thanks for all the info!

Hi,

Do Targeters allow a re-roll to wound? Or just measure range?

Based on what I've read here, it sounds like it's possible to field a guard army with very few troops by using Veterans to fulfill the troops FOC requirements. Is it correct that a Command HQ and two five-man Veteran squads would take care of the mandatory selections? (I ask because it will make a difference in my modelling and painting priorities - I'll go ahead and start building vehicles if I don't need two minimum-strength platoons to play)

How does a squad of Griffons work would it be a barrage ?

Hollismason wrote:How does a squad of Griffons work would it be a barrage ?

It would most likely use the multiple barrage rules from the main rulebook, with the addition of the ability to reroll the scatter dice (Griffon special rule).

There are a few oddities caused by the Griffon special rule that only allows it to fire indirectly. If any of the vehicles in the squadron move the whole squadron counts as moving the same speed and can't shoot, for instance. The closest vehicle fires the ranging shot in the multiple barrage, so it's very important that the closest vehicle to whatever you're shooting at is at least 12" from at least one model in that unit. It's also nice if the closest vehicle to the target has LOS, since that lets you subtract BS from the scatter distance.

middle wrote:Khornatedemon: One tank may take Knight commander Pask. I noted that his special rules were very perculiar. He has two rules, the first says blahblahblah' a tank with him in it may use his Bs of 4. Fairly straight forward. His other rule says that blahblahblah' Any tank with him in it, that remains stationary may use his Bs of 4'.

The rumour I remember seeing was that if a tank moves only a single weapon may use his BS but if it stays still all weapons on the tank may use it. Does that sound familiar at all?

Also, desperately hoping to get points for vendettas solidly.

Reecius wrote:Quick one from me, didn't see that you had answered it yet but if you did, sorry for asking you to repeat yourself.

Are Ogryns tough 5 with FNP, or just one or the other. And if so, what do they cost? A terminator? Less, More?

Ogryns do not, I repeat, do NOT have FNP. This rumor keeps making the rounds, completely uncorroborated. They cost the same as a Terminator, for about one-fifth of the effectiveness.

I think the reason it keeps resurfacing is because Nork has it.

Kungfuhustler wrote:

Anung Un Rama wrote:Thanks middle, this really helps in planning my traitor guard army.

One more question: Are there any units that can take pistols and cc weapons instead of normal lasguns?

Edit: Oh, 2 more:
- Which units can have shotguns?
- I heard rumors about heavy stubbers as a weapon option for squads. Is that true? And is it a heavy weapon?

These are three questions that I would never ask... And if the answers were #1 all #2 all and #3 yes and no then I would not care in the slightest. Not that these are bad questions, don't get me wrong, but because I don't think that IG will ever ever ever ever be a valid assault army. If you are building for assault, good luck and my hat is off to you.

It's not that want to build a CC focused Guard army. I'm asking for modelling reasons: I going to build a small traitor guard force as support for my Death Guard and I was planning on using Flagelants and Skaven Plague Monks for a few units and building them with pistols and CC weapons will be a lot easier then using lasguns.

I also want to use my still-in-the-box Necromunda Scavy Gang, but I'm not sure for what.

Cool, 3 russes in 1 sq. My MEQ opponents toy soldiers gonna die! Wahahahahahhaha....

Now, for the penal legion. Is it rending lasguns or rending HTH?

Agamemnon2 wrote:

Reecius wrote:Quick one from me, didn't see that you had answered it yet but if you did, sorry for asking you to repeat yourself.

Are Ogryns tough 5 with FNP, or just one or the other. And if so, what do they cost? A terminator? Less, More?

Ogryns do not, I repeat, do NOT have FNP. This rumor keeps making the rounds, completely uncorroborated. They cost the same as a Terminator, for about one-fifth of the effectiveness.

Ugh, I just bought some Ogryn too, what a waste. Why, oh why would anyone do this? Unless their bayonets are now power weapons, they just are not worth 200 points for 5. Stupid, stupid, stupid. They should have remained the cost they were.

Reecius wrote:
Ugh, I just bought some Ogryn too, what a waste. Why, oh why would anyone do this? Unless their bayonets are now power weapons, they just are not worth 200 points for 5. Stupid, stupid, stupid. They should have remained the cost they were.

If it makes you feel any better, you're spending 200 points on a 15 wound counter-assault unit...

... Yeah, I'd buy the Executioner instead, too. Sorry, I tried.

ubermosher wrote:

Reecius wrote:
Ugh, I just bought some Ogryn too, what a waste. Why, oh why would anyone do this? Unless their bayonets are now power weapons, they just are not worth 200 points for 5. Stupid, stupid, stupid. They should have remained the cost they were.

If it makes you feel any better, you're spending 200 points on a 15 wound counter-assault unit...

... Yeah, I'd buy the Executioner instead, too. Sorry, I tried.

Yeah i think it was Deadshane that presented this perspective.

'elite choice'

13 points per model

WS4 BS3 S5 T5 I3 A1 LD6 Sv5+

gun 12" range assault 1 S5 AP5

Of course this unit would have slightly more attacks on the charge since it is actually more models, and is 10 points less expensive, but its a good way of looking at the ogryns on a bite size level, without getting bogged down by the 40 point price tag.

For what its worth, none of my lists I've been tinkering with have ogryns in them.