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My bet is on Ragnar

1hadhq wrote:Who could be the "vulcan" of the SW ?

Apparently they will get their version of the Norse god Thor. You know, the guy that smites giants and other monsters by throwing his mighty hammer .

Also, We get a lot of Lysander here as opposed to vulkan.

I'm not biting at all for 30+ points for Grey Hunters. Not even Thousand Sons are that expensive, and with two wounds each, they have plenty...

Oh, sorry. Still, when you cost that much more than a Plague Marine, but won't have the same durability, I'm simply not believing it.

Iorek wrote:I'm not biting at all for 30+ points for Grey Hunters. Not even Thousand Sons are that expensive, and with two wounds each, they have plenty...

Oh, sorry. Still, when you cost that much more than a Plague Marine, but won't have the same durability, I'm simply not believing it.

I think the 30+ points were an assumption of the wolfguards cost.

How much is a regular Space Wolf? xx points? Oh and you get a special weapon for free. Oh, and if you take ten you get a second special weapon for free... Ten men, and two special weapons for 150 points? Sounds good eh?

This part of the rumor may hint on very cost effective troop chioces. SW 150 vs SM 170

Could be as an offset to very expensive characters?

30 points is the rumor for Wolfguard, which suggests they're staying the same as Vet Sgts, and I'm fine with that.

The 65-70 point terminators, I'm having a hard time believing, but I guess it's possible. Isn't that like Obliterator cost though? I don't see them being as good as Oblits, but anything's possible. Maybe they get a second wound as termies, because any model with 2 wounds has a lot going for it.......

Now, if you could upgrade a Grey Hunter to a Wolf Guard Pack Leader and equip them with terminator armor and twin lightning claws (or TH/SS), that could be approaching 70 pts and wouldn't be totally unreasonable (although, it would still be very expensive). 30 pts vet sgt +30 pts twin claws +5-10 pts for TDA.

IIRC, mr p.kelly said ( at a GD, im trying to forget ) you could equip your wolfguard individually and attach them ( 1 per unit ) to another SW squad. His example were long fangs, so grey hunters wont be a problem IMO.

It seems you can have Wolfen attached to your squad

Warseer wrote:Here is more from Never-mind on B&C.
(guess from Lord Ragnarok)
QUOTE
Only thing I can think of is a wulfen WG, but then it is said wulfen are not in the dex. Perhaps "not in the dex" means not as a unit but possibility of upgrades in the pack. The wulfen leader would grant them higher bs, reroll, hit on 3..etc...?

(answer from never-mind)
Lord Ragnarok,
you are a winer biggrin.gif
but you can have both, WG pack leader and a wulfen msn-wink.gif
regards

I think people have heard the "they may rock the tabletop, but don't worry, Wolves are going to cost a lot of points!" rumor and run with it.

At those points costs, if they turn out to be true, well, expect this Codex to bomb.

(The US definition, not the UK one.)

(I think.)

1hadhq wrote:Seen this at the B&C:

[i]These were posted by Zarahemna on Librarium Online.

"My brothers Njal the storm caller has granted me this vision so that you too may know the terrible might of the Space Wolves and howl as their heavy tread draws closer!

I know not of the new range of miniature representations of the sons of Russ, but I have seen the awesomeness of their almighty codex. Gather round now and listen!


*lots of cool stuff*

Well, I now know what codex I'm going to use for my Iron Warriors chaos army....


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H.B.M.C. wrote:
But I just wish the current design ethos would feth off quick smart. This incessant need for Special Characters is just so pathetic - whatever happened to people playing their own armies? Where did that aspect of the hobby go? Now we're supposed to play armies that always contain named personalities within the 40K fluff?

Thats the one thing I really hate about the current GW trend: relianace on special characters. Its annoying as hell.

The 70 point one wound t4 models trend is really worrying me. These guys are going to pay a premium just for the ability to pay extra points to take expensive (and probably, no likely overpriced) weapons, and are going to be no harder to kill than any other army's MEQs.

Yeah, now imagine if you were paying just as much points, but only being T3...

... like an Eldar HQ.

The 70 point one wound t4 models trend is really worrying me. These guys are going to pay a premium just for the ability to pay extra points to take expensive (and probably, no likely overpriced) weapons, and are going to be no harder to kill than any other army's MEQs.

Isn't that how GKs are now?
If you want cheaper units, you'll have to settle for them being powered down quite a bit.
I think it would be better if these USRs they have were options that you could pay points for if you want them. Otherwise you're paying extra points for abilities that you'll potentially never use.

GK terminators are 46 pts each...not 70pts...and you get Aegis Armour!

Eldar have other things going for them. I know, they were my first army. But for Space Marines these guys are going to be 70 point models that have to make it into contact with the enemy and really throw their weight around to justify the expense. I'm not really convinced that making a model that is simply a beatstick cost so much for such a small amount of "durability".

Edit:I hated how my drat Banshee Exarch was 70 points just to be "proficient" at killing a couple of guys a turn if they lived to see combat.

And with 5th edition's nerfing of close combat, paying a lot of points for close combat monsters isn't all that great...

Unless Wolves get some fancy 4th edition-esque throwback special rule. Call it "impetuous" or "ferocious" or some such.

I don't think they are, mind you!

WG can be expensive, so what? 15 poins, ATSKNF, Acute Senses, Counter Charge, BP, CCW, Bolter Marines with two free special weapons should make up for that, right?

I could have sworn that the current rumor for Wolf Guard was a base 2 wounds each.

That's the only think I can think that would justify a 300+ point terminator squad that regular marines can field for 200.

A Thunderhammer Storm Shield Terminator in the current dex is 50.

My wish listing is that Wolf Guard will be like Ork Nobz. 2 Wounds a piece and the ability to be all equiped differently. Join them with a Wolf Priest and then they get Feel No Pain. I would pay 500+ points for that unit in a Land Raider.

Alpharius wrote:And with 5th edition's nerfing of close combat, paying a lot of points for close combat monsters isn't all that great...

Close combat is still pretty darn dangerous in 5th edition. What with multi-charges and combat res, you can really sweep alot of units off the table in one go. The difference is now that you have to make sure you get your CC monster unit stuck in against something worth fighting, rather than mindless munching scrubs as you can't "consolidate" to a fresh combat anymore.

But if we're talking about a small elite force that is always out numbered, then you , by the very nature of the army, are going to be hard pressed to find any possible multi assaults. Just feed them something sacrificial that they can't really ignore, like driving a vet squad with plasma or melta in a chimera up to them, and watch. Chances are either they'll get wiped becuase they are still MEq's but cost so much that they'll be massively outnumbered, or they smash the bait squad because they didn't want the bait mauling them and get wiped by the rest of the enemy force in turn.

Railguns wrote:But if we're talking about a small elite force that is always out numbered, then you , by the very nature of the army, are going to be hard pressed to find any possible multi assaults. Just feed them something sacrificial that they can't really ignore, like driving a vet squad with plasma or melta in a chimera up to them, and watch. Chances are either they'll get wiped becuase they are still MEq's but cost so much that they'll be massively outnumbered, or they smash the bait squad because they didn't want the bait mauling them and get wiped by the rest of the enemy force in turn.

Exactly.

And I'm not sure that I have enough confidence in GW to get this "balance" right...

Alpharius wrote:And I'm not sure that I have enough confidence in GW to get this "balance" right...

Ma-wah-ha-ha! GW. "Balance". same sentence. Now, that's funny.


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And slightly OT. I hope the Space Wolf SC's don't do a lot to modify the basic army archetype. I have less of a problem with SCs changing the FOC or abilities of an army, if it's a basic armylist trying to account for a lot of variance (like SM and IG, even Orks to a degree). But, SWs are getting their own freakin' codex! If they can't get the basic rules for SWs to reflect their archetype, without the use of any special characters, what's the point of giving them their own codex?

It'd be like giving Salamanders their own codex, and they still have Combat Tactics. But, they add Vulkan to the codex and he still replaces Combat Tactics with the twin-linked weaponry. What's the point of the codex? Just get rid of Combat Tactics, and only let units buy twin-linked flamers and meltas, and MC TH's.

That's one reason why many think that putting all SM chapters in one codex makes perfect sense...

Archonate wrote:That's one reason why many think that putting all SM chapters in one codex makes perfect sense...

Many = Archonate, who certainly chimes in on any Chapter Specific threads with posts of that leaning!

Space Wolves were the only chapter (I think) that definitely said "No, I don't think so!" to Roboute and his Codex, so, if any "deserve" their own Codex, I think the Wolves do!

Plus, it can serve as a basis for anyone who wants a non-codex Chapter!

Right?

If anything, Black Templars and Space Wolves are the two divergent chapters enough that they are almost impossible to integrate into a singular Codex Space Marines.

Personally, I would love to see Blood Angels and Dark Angels given the old "Angels of Death" treatment.

Space Wolves are probably the most unique chapter. They are going to be crazy good, but will probably be outnumbered all the time to compensate. Grey Hunters will be cheap, but that may not be counting a 50 point Wolf Guard upgrade option. It also may not count an upgrade charge for Melta or Plasma.

300 - 400 point Terminator sqauds should be troop choices because you would rarely want to field them otherwise. When I originally played wolves in 3rd edition, I wouldn't touch Terminators with a ten foot pole because they where always so overpriced. If they will continue to be expensive, they better be 2 wounds or have "hero" stats like WS 5 , BS 5, Ld 10 and come with some additional benefits.

I am extremely frustrated that we are almost a month away from release and we still have no concrete rumors.

Alpharius wrote:

Archonate wrote:That's one reason why many think that putting all SM chapters in one codex makes perfect sense...

Many = Archonate, who certainly chimes in on any Chapter Specific threads with posts of that leaning!

Now you must understand, I don't do it out of SM hate. There are a several chapters who's special rules are so similar that the differences could be explained on a codex page between army lists. Compiling such chapters would keep a good number of players from having to wait so long for their codex.
From the point of view of somebody who plays against SMs almost exclusively, (me) the only difference between SM chapters is how the army thrashes around as it dies. Most of the time I don't even ask what chapter I'm fighting, cause it makes no difference in how I play. SMs all die the same. SWs are no exception. (though I must admit, this new codex is making them look a little more extraordinary. )

That may just be because GW hasn't done a good enough job of differentiating the chapters, rather than the chapters not deserving their own book....

WGBG 25
TH&SS 25
TDA 5
WTN 10
WP 3
WTT 1
=69pts

Works for me

Oh goody, space wolves are going to be mary sue wish fulfillment super-space marines for no reason other than poor design philosophy. They're armies are going to be tiny (despite having a much larger than normal chapter size) and all of their special characters are going to be 250+ point supermen for no reason other than to avoid the shrill cry of the fanboy.

Good goody gumdrops.