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Has there been any word on redoing any of the special characters besides Njal? I really like what I'm hearing about Ragnar Blackmane, but that miniature is awful.

Cheese Elemental wrote:

Tacobake wrote:Whatever it is, I am sure Jervis knows what he is doing.

Tacobake wrote:Jervis knows what he is doing.

What the hell are you smoking?

Cannabis Wolfborn?

Rumor is that "all" of the special characters are be redone. Ragnar, Ulrk, and Njal all have that 'second edition flat pose' syndrome going, so I think that it is pretty reasonable to assume they're all being redone. And we know that there is a mini for Canis riding his wolf. Logan Grimnar is a relatively recent model (well, third edition, so what, like 10 years old?), but when he was released, he was one of the first 'biggerized' terminators. Now, Logan is the same size, or even smaller, than the current plastic models. I would guess that he won't get a new model coming out this year, but it's possible that GW redoes the model down the road.

My guess is that Ragnar will be leading a lot of Space Wolf armies, just like you see Vulkan and Eldrad in a lot of armies.

Railguns wrote:

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:There is nothing random about GW pricing, as "random" would tend to imply that prices go up *and* prices also go down with nearly equal likelihood.

That word - I do not think it means what you think it means.

Don't tease now, Abby. I've gone this whole year thinking the only guys left from old Dakka were HBMC, me, and maybe one more that lurks but doesn't ever say anything. Was that you? Are we alone as I thought? I miss Therion and Mauleed.

HEY! I'm still here! I'm hurt!


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Mastiff wrote:

Cheese Elemental wrote:

Tacobake wrote:Whatever it is, I am sure Jervis knows what he is doing.

Tacobake wrote:Jervis knows what he is doing.

What the hell are you smoking?

Cannabis Wolfborn?

I just ROFL'd myself

Seen this at the B&C:

These were posted by Zarahemna on Librarium Online.

"My brothers Njal the storm caller has granted me this vision so that you too may know the terrible might of the Space Wolves and howl as their heavy tread draws closer!

I know not of the new range of miniature representations of the sons of Russ, but I have seen the awesomeness of their almighty codex. Gather round now and listen!

Characters:

Njal Stormcaller:

Njal is back in all of his glory. The cyber raven joins him and the most easy comparison is with Tigurius, except that he wears terminator armour and carries mighty runes which blaze and improve his invulnerable save to a 4+. Truly unstoppable he remains.

A storm now covers Njal and this affects enemy shooting and combat prowess (-1 to both within 18" or something like that) and at higher levels can destroy foes and cast them around the table with it's mighty winds. Njal is the master of all six Space Wolf Psychic powers and yes, he is really expensive. Think 250+ points.

Bjorn the Fell Handed. Bjorn is incredibly strong, AV13 to the front and of course venerable. Put those two factors together and he is an almighty warrior. He has four attacks basic and is strength seven. He is also very expensive.

There is also a Telion type upgrade for the Space Wolf equivalent to scouts. This hero, more than three centuries old is the equivalent of a captain and yet with his unruly manners cannot be accepted among the battle brothers, not least because he stole one of the Chapter's thunderhawks and then crashed it during his flight. He upgrades his squad, I cannot remember how.

Battle Brothers:

All Space Wolves have counter attack and acute senses.

Wolf Guard are deceptive, they start off at a little over thirty points but they get very expensive very quickly. A wolf guard with Thunder hammer and Storm Shield weighs in at just under seventy!

There is a character with a special storm shield who can get an extra attack which represents him slapping his opponent with the shield when he charges. He also has furious charge and a thunder hammer that he can throw in a shooting attack. yes, a thrown thunder hammer. When it hits the foe there is an explosion and it reappears with a flash in his hands... Not bad eh?

Blood Claws now come in three flavours, bikers, jump packers and infantry. They remain slightly less able than regualr marines in shooting and close combat but are still really deadly...

Wulfen are gone as a unit.

There is a character who rides a Fenrisian wolf in to battle. It's a bit He-Man esque, but in a good way.

Long Fangs, Heavy Bolters for only a handful of points, you know about the same as a meltagun for regular marines... Also you can carry five heavy weapons... It's brilliant.

How much is a regular Space Wolf? xx points? Oh and you get a special weapon for free. Oh, and if you take ten you get a second special weapon for free... Ten men, and two special weapons for 150 points? Sounds good eh?

Kit? Oh yeah, every space wolf carries a chainsword, bolt pistol and boltgun. Extra attacks, I think so. You can kiss good bye to true grit though.

Oh and one last thing. Dark Angels are now not alone in being able to field Terminator only armies! SW's can field all terminator armies as one of their characters makes it possible to field T's as troops choices!"


Welcome Mr Thor and Mr Odin to 40k

Oh good. More special characters to change your force. Fething wonderful. And rather than keeping up with the heavy symbolism they've just added Thor wholesale. Great.

And sucks to be a 13th Company player. All you Wulfen players come join us LatD, Ulthwe Strike Force and Speed Freak players at the bar! But drink heartily me lads, 'cause the Inquisition won't be far behind you...

I think it could have been expected if you listen to mr kelly.

Cant wait for the whining when we see the abilities and units.

But cheap GH sounds interesting. Could imagine some Movie-marines for the looks and some "other-marines" for the game.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Oh good. More special characters to change your force. Fething wonderful. And rather than keeping up with the heavy symbolism they've just added Thor wholesale. Great.

And sucks to be a 13th Company player. All you Wulfen players come join us LatD, Ulthwe Strike Force and Speed Freak players at the bar! But drink heartily me lads, 'cause the Inquisition won't be far behind you...

Um have you read the ork codex H.B.M.C.

I still have my Speed Freak army the only thing I lost was the fightabomma raid.

wohoo on a terminator army time to save some money for termies assault cannons in every hand and heavy flamers in every garage.

I'm excited about the Grey Hunters, and interested to see these new Special Characters.

Two special weapons is great, but means I need more special weapons. Need to find out the minimum size of a GH squad. If it has gone down to five, all the better.

Do squads still get power weapons and fists? How many?

I realize there are no answers yet, just saying what I'd like to know.

Not thrilled with expensive Terminators.

Those rumors make it sound like Space Wolves will be the new Space Marines.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Oh good. More special characters to change your force. Fething wonderful. And rather than keeping up with the heavy symbolism they've just added Thor wholesale. Great.

I don't see this trend ever going away, unfortunately...

H.B.M.C. wrote:And sucks to be a 13th Company player. All you Wulfen players come join us LatD, Ulthwe Strike Force and Speed Freak players at the bar! But drink heartily me lads, 'cause the Inquisition won't be far behind you...

So sad, so true...

Well, it looks as if we'll be seeing a lot of "Counts As" Space Wolf armies soon!

Should make some happy...

I'm happy that they're getting a new Codex, I'm happy that a stack of cool new models are coming out (though would it kill GW to hype their releases with actual fething previews?), and overall I think a rejuvenated Wolves is good for 40K as a whole.

But I just wish the current design ethos would feth off quick smart. This incessant need for Special Characters is just so pathetic - whatever happened to people playing their own armies? Where did that aspect of the hobby go? Now we're supposed to play armies that always contain named personalities within the 40K fluff?

And don't BAWWW back at me with 'Counts As' 'cause that doesn't cut it I'm afraid. This is why I still find the ability to take a Captain on a Bike and take Bikes as Troops in the Marine Codex so surprising. (not that anyone does it mind you - Vulkan power build all the way - but it is surprising to see it there. I'd do an army like that if only to go to all the Raven Wing players "Haha! I don't have to bring a special character to play my all-Bike army", but then I realise I'd be making fun of Dark Angel players, and they've got it bad enough already without having me on their case over something that's not their fault.

Oh well.

The bulk of those rumors are nice enough that I will ignore the fact that it says AV13 on Bjorn when the rumor has been 14 for months now. I have to agree with what a couple of you said though, and I highly doubt I will be the only Wolves player at my FLGS after October if those hold true.

The wolf stuff didn't really interest or faze me until I saw that last bit about fielding an all-terminator army.

A deathwing style army is one of the few marine lists I'd actually consider playing, and having another codex to pick from for a 'counts-as' list just doubled my options.

I would have rather had a "captain in terminator armor + terminator retinue lets you take termies as troop choices" rule in the 'nilla codex, though...

I guess what I'm saying is, "hooray for terminators!"

*cracks open bottle of Thunderbird, chugs, falls over*

I too would like to see the special character dependence fall away. I blame warmachine for breaking open that door though.

I'm wondering if the "special weapons" per squad includes things like power weapons/power fists. It would be an overall reduction per squad in what's currently allowed, but still leave them with potentially more than a regular space marine tac squad, especially if Wolf Guard can still be attached to every unit.
I'm still concerned about the point costs, I expect that you will pay a hefty price for all these abilities.

I'm okay with them basically porting Thor into the list as a character, I might not ever use him but a space wolf throwing a thunder hammer has a certain appeal, especially if the model is nice. Likely as not he'll be direct order only when he comes out and probably a second wave release.

The all terminator army is temptation I don't need if it's true, been tempted by deathwing armies in the past... If they retain the Space Wolves dislike of teleportation, one would have to drop the terminators in pods which would add a points sink to an already low model count army if you want it to deep strike.

"A wolf guard with Thunder hammer and Storm Shield weighs in at just under seventy"

...Huh?!? Great, they got more expensive. Countercharge and acute senses are just the replacement for combat tactics. So they better get something for that extra 30 points...something that is worth 30 points.

All the rumors are that Wolf Guard in TDA are pretty point-expensive. I think the one rumor was that WG in TDA with twin Claws was around 70 points, but got like 6 attacks on the charge. The thinking was that the WG probably got one more attack (so, 3 base) +1 two CCWs, +1 for charge, with the last attack maybe coming from a Character or Banner type bonus. Maybe WG get 2 attacks on the charge, or are a mind-boggling 4 base attacks (which, I just can't see happening, since then Ragnar would certainly have like 6 or 7 base).

If a full GH unit comes with a couple special weapons for 'free', I can't see the unit being less than 180 points.


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Who knows, maybe WG all get Runic Charms for free. Well, a Wolf player can dream.

Warmachine isn't the only one to use named characters. Void did it as well.

What's the big deal about a named character anyway? He is an Archetype that allows a certain build.

Do you argue with your opponent over who is the real Vulkan if you face each other?

I think they are a great method of balancing good army wide abilities with a penalty, dependance on a single figure.

They would be better if GW actually balanced them, but the concept is good.

I am reallly not likeing the idea of a SW riding a wolf while wearing dead wolves, and a unit is even worse.

Yeah, but WM made a much bigger impact than Void and seems to be the clear inspiration for GW's trend. But counts as works fine. My counts as Vulkan is the UM Master of the Armoury, so it not surprising that his troops are fitted with the finest weaponry and plenty of Promethium. ;-)

wyomingfox: part of that cost is TDA. I am guessing the rest is for extra attacks. Still, its what +30 over a codex assault terminator? And LCs is probably 5 attacks (sans character) v. codex 4. Dunno if that is a good deal...

150 seems way to cheap for 10 GHs and 2 special weapons. I am guessing more like 170-180.

And if the have Colter/BP/CCW, they don't need True Grit.

sonofruss wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:Oh good. More special characters to change your force. Fething wonderful. And rather than keeping up with the heavy symbolism they've just added Thor wholesale. Great.

And sucks to be a 13th Company player. All you Wulfen players come join us LatD, Ulthwe Strike Force and Speed Freak players at the bar! But drink heartily me lads, 'cause the Inquisition won't be far behind you...

Um have you read the ork codex H.B.M.C.

I still have my Speed Freak army the only thing I lost was the fightabomma raid.

wohoo on a terminator army time to save some money for termies assault cannons in every hand and heavy flamers in every garage.

really, because my nonbike speed freak army was made useless. having units of 10 guys with 1 wound each and following the standard ork morale rules (instead of the special speed freak ones) hobbled any chance of my force being effective. they were already pretty bad in annilation mission but awesome in mission objective type games. oh well... they're sold so i shouldn't talk about that old spilled milk.. why didn't i include bikes? because when i made the army 8+ years ago, the old gorkamorka bikes were fuggly!

as for the wolves, if those rumors are true then it will continue the time honored tradition of superpowering the wolves and then having the rest of the 40k universe playing catch up for 5 years! tally ho!!

150 pts does seem cheap for 10 Grey Hunters with 2 specials but maybe that's how they've set the list up. Cheap troops with really expensive elites, characters, etc.

With the codex so near it's really frustrating that we have so little concrete information to go on. Even general sales peak from GW like "you'll love what we've done with Long Fangs", "expect troops to be cheaper", and "wolf guard will be awesome" would be welcome at this point even if they were horribly wrong.

Right now the Codex requires an HQ unit for every 750pts in play. Any thoughts if that will continue?

With the increase in character costs, it may explain cheaper GH units.

1hadhq wrote:

Wolf Guard are deceptive, they start off at a little over thirty points but they get very expensive very quickly. A wolf guard with Thunder hammer and Storm Shield weighs in at just under seventy!

Isn't this the whole reason nobody uses Vanguard?

At 70.. does that include Terminator Armour? I may be able to see that.. if it included the weaponry..

1hadhq wrote:Seen this at the B&C:

These were posted by Zarahemna on Librarium Online.

How much is a regular Space Wolf? xx points? Oh and you get a special weapon for free. Oh, and if you take ten you get a second special weapon for free... Ten men, and two special weapons for 150 points? Sounds good eh?

Kit? Oh yeah, every space wolf carries a chainsword, bolt pistol and boltgun. Extra attacks, I think so. You can kiss good bye to true grit though.

Idk about you, but I personally am looking forward to all the regular space marines armies that will soon be "counts as" space wolf armies.

skrulnik wrote:Warmachine isn't the only one to use named characters. Void did it as well.

What's the big deal about a named character anyway? He is an Archetype that allows a certain build.

Do you argue with your opponent over who is the real Vulkan if you face each other?

I think they are a great method of balancing good army wide abilities with a penalty, dependance on a single figure.

They would be better if GW actually balanced them, but the concept is good.

I am reallly not likeing the idea of a SW riding a wolf while wearing dead wolves, and a unit is even worse.

I don't have a problem with the special characters, but I really wouldn't mind an alternate system where you pay a base cost, then add traits for X points.

Like so:
Warboss - 40 pts
Statline Ws 5, Bs 2, S5, T5 W3, I3, A4 LD9

Traits:
Evil Sun Y pts - bikes are scoring, maybe re-introduce the old "fall back to your ride" thing.
Goff X pts - +1 WS, +1A, +1I can take one unit of Nobz as troop.
Deathskull Z pts - All infantry can take looted wagons as transports.
Bad Moon Y - More special weapon options, more kombi-weapon stuff. Maybe BS increase? Something with flashgitz maybe (let one mob be taken as a retinue for the boss maybe).
Snakebite X - Uhm, I'm a bit stumped -_- Some bonus to gretchin, some toughness bonus maybe (maybe like Mark of Nurgle, +1T)
Blood Axe Z - Kommandos are scoring/taken as troops. Maybe steal Snikrot's Ambush ability.

Haha, nice idea but they made a massive hash of trait systems before by making 'no brainer' traits, as well as some 'not with a barge pole.' traits. As it is i'm going to do a wolves army i think as i've never done a marine army from a codex in colours from said codex (closest i've got is a black bone and red count as templar army) so bring on the grey. (although I may do them in pre-heresy codex grey rather than powder blue space wolf grey)

Isn't it sort of the same "mess" they made with the Marine characters, where almost everyone takes Vulkan ?

Are you implying that some SM players don't take Vulcan ?


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porkuslime wrote:At 70.. does that include Terminator Armour? I may be able to see that.. if it included the weaponry..

At 42 pts don't SM terminators get TDA, TH and SS? I just don't see 70 pt WG terminators as being very viable. Still, I am smelling Shennanigans. Does anyone know the OPs (Zarahemna) credentials as a reliable rumor mill?

Those may not field him =>

From a "how much did the author of the codex enjoy his concept" approach, i may assume were looking at
a herohammer army.

Who could be the "vulcan" of the SW ?

Does anyone know the OPs credentials as a reliable rumor mill?

Never been on librarium online myself.

The possibility of expensive TDA models isnt that far fetched.
IMO mr kelly was exactly insisting we wouldnt get characters or wolfguard for cheap ( heard it at the fail of a GD, i was ).