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I wish the clanrats had the look and proportions of the current skaven assassin minis

I'm excited to see whether or not the newer fantasy armies continue to be either ridiculously powerful or ridiculously weak. The skaven were already powerful, but I suppose I want to see if multiple builds are possible with the new codex.

Although I guess who writes it will influence whether it sucks or takes names.

I just want Clan Eshin to be as viable as Clan Skryre

chaplaingrabthar wrote:I just want Clan Eshin to be as viable as Clan Skryre

And I want Alpha Legion to be as viable as Black Legion, but sometimes you don't get what you want and GW takes away all your options and armies.

Look what they did to Vampire Counts as far as the various blood-lines go. They're gone. That's not to say the army book is bad or what it was replaced with was bad, but I just don't see the separate army thing ever coming back to a GW product.

Unless there's a special character (ie. a model they can sell) for that purpose.

Well...scuttlebutt is there are a lot of Lord options, more Lords than heroes due to special characters. So I'm thinking there might be a lot of build variety in this book.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

chaplaingrabthar wrote:I just want Clan Eshin to be as viable as Clan Skryre

And I want Alpha Legion to be as viable as Black Legion, but sometimes you don't get what you want and GW takes away all your options and armies

Well, yes. We all know GW has a checkered history there, and everybody but 1 poster here recognizes that the current Chaos Codex is a gigantic pile of gak.

Look what they did to Vampire Counts as far as the various blood-lines go. They're gone. That's not to say the army book is bad or what it was replaced with was bad, but I just don't see the separate army thing ever coming back to a GW product.

Unless there's a special character (ie. a model they can sell) for that purpose.

Meh. I'm still pissed about Vampire Counts even existing as a separate army. I preferred the unified Undead of WFB4 (My very first non-40K army)

Hey hey hey, boys and girls! Heres a piccy of the new book cover:

Looks same as the other Skaven cover posted.

Do you mean on another thread? I can't find it on this one, John .

Yeah, there's a thread for new Skaven cover.

JohnHwangDD wrote:The easiest "fix" for the 40k scale problem would be to simply shrink IG back to the 2E metal Guardsman size (Praetorian / Mordian / Tallarn). It's the stupid Catachans (and Cadians, to a somewhat lesser extent). Then at least Marines and Orks will be "heroically" large compared to Guardsmen.

Don't forget the Vostroyans. They are huge compared to my valhallans.

Ah, I see it know. Sorry, should have looked around first. I guess I'm just not that bright .

Frazzled wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:The easiest "fix" for the 40k scale problem would be to simply shrink IG back to the 2E metal Guardsman size (Praetorian / Mordian / Tallarn). It's the stupid Catachans (and Cadians, to a somewhat lesser extent). Then at least Marines and Orks will be "heroically" large compared to Guardsmen.

Don't forget the Vostroyans. They are huge compared to my valhallans.

Big Furry Hats, amirite?

Well I do agree that marines should be halfway the size between an Ogryn and and a guardsman.

take a close look at the cover. Qweek is back, warp fire thrower, (wonder whats going to happen to the ratling gun) screaming bell in the background.... it gives alot away, but what has me intrested is that huge thing in the background that looks like a giant rat ogre. a while back Moulder was working on something like that mentioned in a flavor text from Lustria.

all in all, intresting.

We get our Skaven Black Box early October, so though I won't put up direct info, I'll be happy to rubbish/confirm the various rumours.

No stats, no points, just info.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Look what they did to Vampire Counts as far as the various blood-lines go.

Or Daemons. If Skaven go the way of Daemons, we might wind up seeing Plague Warlock Engineers goodness, or a Grey Seer Moulder Beastmaster of Eshin (well, power-gaming wise, not fluff-wise).

Unless there's a special character (ie. a model they can sell) for that purpose.

I predict a lot of Hero-level Skaven Characters. Assassins, if I had to guess, will wind up like their Dark Elf counterparts. For standard characters we either keep Warlock Engineer, Moulder, etc., or everything turns "Chieftain" with something like "Clan Points" to put into powers / wargear (At +15 points clan moulder units may use the chieftain's leadership, at +25 the chieftain gains +1 Toughness and Frenzy, but loses 1 Initiative, etc). Special characters allow you to change what can count as mainstay (if mainstay remains as a rule), or provide certain buffs to specific units.

All of this is pure speculation, but it wouldn't surprise me if something similar happened.

Hawkins wrote: (wonder whats going to happen to the ratling gun)

Going to dread saying it, but... something like a Leadbelcher? I don't predict they're going to keep it as a weapon that auto-hits and can roll one-die-at-a-time.


EDIT: Doc, do Skaven have lots of special character heroes?

Minsc wrote:do Skaven have lots of special character heroes?

They generally have a special char for each of the clans , so yes.

LunaHound wrote:

Minsc wrote:do Skaven have lots of special character heroes?

They generally have a special char for each of the clans , so yes.

My interest is in Hero instead of Lord level. Want to know if you can field Clan Eshin at under 2K points, or Clan Pestilens, Clan Skyre, Clan Moulder, etc. Not "Oh yeah you can be Moulder, but only in larger games."

Why can't you be of a particular Clan without needing GW to spoon-feed you the rules?

LOL I'm imagining JohnHwangDD as a pirate on the Black Pearl saying "Well its more of a guideline really" Garr!

I suppose when you are choosing to pay to play a game with a rule set and a company is making said rules, that you'd expect some sort of boundaries to clearly define an extent. I.e. everything listed falls within clan eshin etc.

The problems with people playing a competative game and having viable options means you have to fall back on the rules as they determine viability.

I won't collect a skaven army (simply waaaaaay too much shelf space required) but I'll buy the army book to have a read as I enjoyed the last one and hope they'll make a good job of this one.

I'm interested to see how masses of averageness will be balanced against the supposed masses of awesomeness that the DOC have brought to the game recently.

It's a game, so one imagines that a bit of imagination is required.

Greetings.
I am new to dakka but have been a regular viewer of the site.

Here's a summary of all the Skaven news upto date. (Warning; Long post)


"The new Skaven army book is due the 7th of November 2009 and is written by Jeremy Vetock. It will be the second and last army book in 2009 (sadly).

Remember that an absence of rumours is not a rumour of absence. Just because there are no rumours on your favourite unit or character doesn't mean that it won't be in the army book.



New models:
There are four new boxes, plus some metal models and probably some repackaged old stuff.

Clanrats / Slaves
- plastic box of 20 for £20
- concept sketches by Jes Goodwin and Brian Nelson
- wear tattered robes and armour somewhat similar to LotR moria goblins
- the box does not contain parts to make weapon teams

Stormvermin
- plastic box of 20 for £30

Doomwheel
- plastic box of 1 for £20
- smaller than the old version to make it fit on a chariot base

Screaming Bell / Plague Furnace / Plagueclaw Catapult
- plastic box, makes one of the three for £35
- the bell variant comes with part of the church still attached
- the furnace variant comes with sculpted plastic smoke

Deathmaster Snitch
- metal blister of 1
- jumping off a piece of scenery with a dagger in each hand (we will all be disappointed if he does not also have one in the tail)

Queek Head-taker
- metal blister of 1
- has a rat ogre skeleton on his trophy rack

Unknown other models

Battalion Box
-unknown contents, but presumably both clanrats and stormvermin will be in it


Things that are apparently being phased out (if you look at Maelstrom, for example)
- Stormvermin (new plastic box)
- Gutter Runner blisters (repackaged in boxes of 5)?
- Censer Bearer blisters (repackaged in boxes of 5)?
- Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (new plastic box)
- Assassins (resculpt?)
- Plague Lords (resculpt?)
- Warpfire Thrower (resculpt?)
- Warplightning Cannon (resculpt?)
- Rat Swarms (unknown)



Army list structure
Judging by all recent army books, there will be ONE and only one army list, i.e. no variant list for a Clan Pestilence or Clan Moulder or anything like that. HOWEVER, the army list is most likely going to be less restrictive than now, making it easier to play a Clan Pestilence or Clan Moulder list using the main army list. This might be done by moving certain units (e.g. Plague Monks) to Core, or it might be done by having special characters that alter the army list if chosen (i.e. Nurglitch or Skrolk might let you take Plague Monks as Core). Note that we don't know anything about this yet, though it has been suggested by multiple sources that the Mainstay mechanic is gone.


Army special rules
It has been suggested that Skaven might get an additional +1 CR for outnumbering (for a total of +2), but nothing definite.
The other army special rules (Lead from the Rear, Strength in Numbers, etc) seem to be mostly staying, but might be tweaked somewhat. For example the Life is Cheap rule apparently only applies to Slaves, so you can't shoot into combat if any of your other units are involved.


Magic
- There are supposedly two spell lists, one for Skryre and one for Pestilence. Warlock Engineers get spells from one lists while Plague Priests get spells from the other. - Grey Seers can apparently choose which list to use and can mix (so if they roll a 1, 2, 3 and 5, they can get the first and fifth spell from the Skryre list and the second and third from the Pestilence list, or some other mix)
- There is supposedly also a basic spell in addition to these, giving a total of 13 spells
- miscast is supposedly back to being on double 6s like with any other army
- casters can supposedly consume any number of their warpstone tokens when casting spells

Skryre spells
Warp Lighting
- supposedly only D6 hits, though if you take the Warp-power Accumulator it adds +2 hits (a 1 is still one hit on the caster)


(name unknown)
- stops flying

(name unknown, might be the same spell as the previous)
- enemies get -1 BS

Curse of the Horned Rat
- 25+ to cast
- can only target US1 infantry
- turns 4D6 models in the unit into skaven



Lords
- there are no clan-specific Lord choices other than special characters

Warlord
- Mount options: Rat Ogre, Giant Rat or a War Litter

Grey Seer
- new plastic Screaming Bell presumably includes a plastic Grey Seer
- Leadership 7
- start with D3 Warpstone tokens
- Mount option: Screaming Bell


Heroes

Chieftain
- no news

Warlock Engineer
- are now more like a cross between wizards and engineers
- become more shooting-oriented than previously, can take a Warplock Musket with a special sight that allows him to snip models in units (presumably like an Empire Hochland Long Rifle)
- Warp-Power Accumulator is apparently an Arcane item (not know if it is unique or not) that only generates an extra Power Dice on a D6 roll of 5+, but adds +2 hits caused with the Warp Lighting spell (an unmodified 1 still does a hit on the Warlock)
- Mount options: Doomwheel?

Assassin
- apparently still a character and not a Core choice (unlike the Dark Elf ones)
- Always Strike First
- 4+ "dodge" Ward save

Plague Priest
- supposedly upgradeable to wizards (unknown how high level) without the Liber Bubonicus
- Mount options: Giant Rat or a Plague Furnace

Master Moulder
- now a unit upgrade for Giant Rat Packs and Rat Ogres rather than a character


Character mounts

Giant Rat (Warlord, Plague Priest...)
- presumably like the one being ridden by Nurglitch

Rat Ogre (Warlord...)

War Litter (Warlord...
- presumably much like a Palanquin of Nurgle in being a cavalry mount on a large base moving at infantry speed

Screaming Bell (Grey Seer)
- new plastic model

Plague Furnace (Plague Priest)
- made from same kit as the Screaming Bell
- apparently also pushed into battle, also causing impact hits
- gives a bonus to units around it (poison or frenzy, details unknown), while Pestilence units nearby get further bonuses (Hatred or Stubborn, details unknown)
- can supposedly cast bound spells (Plague?)

Doomwheel(?)
- given GWs previous policy of wanting to sell as many as possible of the new big plastic kits, you will be able to take the new plastic Doomwheels as mount options (for Warlock Engineers) similar to how Skink characters can take the new plastic Stegadons as mount options


Core

Clanrats
- new plastic box
- lose Mainstay rule, which allows you to take more of the other units without needing clanrats first. It appears that to compensate for this, other units are getting more limited (Night Runners become a block unit, Globadiers become Special, etc.)

Slaves
- made from the same plastic box as clanrats
- Life is Cheap now *only* applies to Slaves
- some rumours say they lose the option for slings, though that would be unlike GW as the current policy seems to be to not remove options they have previously made models for

Stormvermin
- new plastic box
- no longer 0-1
- one point cheaper with (apparently) the same stats, equipment and options
- may take a magic standard worth up to 50 pts, champion can get a magic item worth up to 15 pts

Night Runners
- no longer skirmish(!)
- special rule Slinking Advance gives them a free Move before the first turn (like Ghouls get if you have a Vampire with the Ghoulkin power)
- apparently same stats as now
- 2 points more expensive, but start off with two hand weapons and throwing stars
- can take a Warp Grinder weapon team (allowing them to tunnel)
- it is not known what the minimum unit size is

Giant Rat Pack
- one rumour said you could add Rat Ogres to this unit, but that appears to have been wishful thinking
- Master Moulder is now unit upgrade with 2 Wounds and Ld6, an option for a Things-catcher and quite probably other options as well. No magic items.

Rat Swarms
- presumably no longer 0-1
- cost almost halved


Weapon Teams
- it would appear that these function more or less as now (i.e. they can be targeted like any other unit), but if they are within a given (presumably short) range of their parent unit, they get a 4+ Ward save.

Ratling Gun
- presumably has to roll to hit

Warpfire Thrower
- no news

Poisoned Wind Mortar
- presumably something like a bigger Poison Wind Globadier

Doom Flayer
- close combat weapon team, possibly causing impact hits

Warp Grinder
- allows its unit to tunnel (details unknown)


Special units

Jezzails
- can get a BS 4 champion
- some rumours have said that they lose skirmish

Plague Monks
- don't appear to change much

Rat Ogres
- Frenzy
- cost 10 pts less than currently, but that is without a handler (who cost 8 pts, so if you get one handler per Rat Ogre you end up paying 2 pts less)
- can get champions who have +1 WS and +1 A
- can take a Master Moulder (see Giant Rat Packs)

Gutter Runners
- tunneling is now a weapon team (Warp Grinder) rather than a normal upgrade
- has a modified Scout rule (not details as to how it is different)
- 6+ "dodge" Ward save

Globadiers
- supposedly not getting new models yet
- unit size 5-15
- not known if they get altered rules
- may take a Poison Wind Mortar weapon team

Plague Censer Bearers
- get one extra Attack (so 3 while frenzied)


Rare

Warp Lightning Cannon
- getting a rework to make it more like a standard war machine
- no longer have to flee from charges (and there was much rejoicing!)
- fires like a normal cannon and with the 3" round template placed where the shot ends as well
- Strength still random, no armour save, D6 wounds
- Leadership 7

Doomwheel
- new plastic model
- supposedly generating impact hits depending on how far it charges

Plagueclaw Catapult
- stone thrower variant with 5" round template
- Strength 2, no armour saves allowed, units hit must take a Panic test if they take one or more wounds

Hell Pit Abomination
- big monster thingy
- Large Target, Terror
- Stubborn (unknown at what Ld)
- Strength, Toughness and Wounds like a Giant
- Moves 3D6" (has a special rule called Shambling Horror which sounds like the Lurching Horror rule Chaos Spawn have, and which deals with their movement)
- Regeneration (has a special rule called Too Horrible To Die, this might be it)
- has a rule called Warpstone Spikes which might be a random attack type, or impact hits (or both!)




Special characters

Thanquol & Boneripper (Grey Seer with Rat Ogre bodyguard)

Lord Skrolk (Pestilence Lord)

Ikit Claw (Skryre Lord)

Throt the Unclean (Moulder Lord)

Queek Head-Taker (Warlord)

Vermin Lord (Greater Rat Daemon)
- not a special character as such, but presumably you can't have more than one
- no new model for the time being, so use your old one
- very good stats
- 5+ Ward save
- level 4 wizard

Deathmaster Snikch (Eshin Hero)
- new metal model

Tretch (unknown)
- new character

some sort of upgrade champion model for Giant Rat Packs"
__________________


cheers.

lol @ poison wind mortar ....

That thing is made out of glass , i can imagining the crew all dead after firing one.

no new warp fire thrower? no new globadier? those things are ANCIENT

LunaHound wrote:no new warp fire thrower? no new globadier? those things are ANCIENT

Ancient, yes, but still some fantastic models!

Some things I dislike:

Night Runners are blocks? Really? So the only possible way to secure your flanks with skirmishers are a special choice?

Jezzails losing skirmish: A T3 model with a 4+ save base and one wound? Easier yet to kill: 8 Thunderer's at long range can drop 2-3 of them a turn and probably cause a panic check. Real minor complaint though, considering Rank-or-Skirmish, our Magic Missiles will sort out the snipers just as well.

Life is Cheap only for Slaves? Why? One of Skaven's most defining features just went out the window.

Irresistable Force only on double-sixes? Again, why? Two of Skaven's defining features are thrown out here. "We're going to make Dwarves... but now only one unit can be stubborn, and nothing hates Greenskins any more."

Things I like:

Lots of special characters, instead of what we currently have in the back of the Skaven book.

Things I wonder about:

Will things such as the Ratling Gun, Poisoned Weapons, etc. still count as magical?

Dude, those are rumours. Not facts.

Death By Monkeys wrote:

LunaHound wrote:no new warp fire thrower? no new globadier? those things are ANCIENT

Ancient, yes, but still some fantastic models!

True.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Dude, those are rumours. Not facts.

2x true.

Please complain when the army book is out. Al in all I like many of the changes suggested/rumored. The Master moulder riding ogres and a poison wind catapult were also my visions for new units for the skaven (sorry, that sounds pretty arrogant).

Maybe I invest the time and money to update my skaven army after all. My Eldar will kill m, though.

Greets
Schepp himself

Expect the Skaven book in-store preview copies next week...

Minsc wrote:Some things I dislike:

Night Runners are blocks? Really? So the only possible way to secure your flanks with skirmishers are a special choice?

Jezzails losing skirmish: A T3 model with a 4+ save base and one wound? Easier yet to kill: 8 Thunderer's at long range can drop 2-3 of them a turn and probably cause a panic check. Real minor complaint though, considering Rank-or-Skirmish, our Magic Missiles will sort out the snipers just as well.

Life is Cheap only for Slaves? Why? One of Skaven's most defining features just went out the window.

Irresistable Force only on double-sixes? Again, why? Two of Skaven's defining features are thrown out here. "We're going to make Dwarves... but now only one unit can be stubborn, and nothing hates Greenskins any more."

Things I like:

Lots of special characters, instead of what we currently have in the back of the Skaven book.

Things I wonder about:

Will things such as the Ratling Gun, Poisoned Weapons, etc. still count as magical?

On the Jezzails. They might lose skirmish but that won't make them easier to kill because they can't get the -1 to hit because they are unit str 2. Only works on unit str 1.

cheers.