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Weren't there rumors (or maybe just speculation) that GKs would get jetbikes?

JohnHwangDD wrote:
Frateris Militia belong, just not in this book. Wait for C: Sisters of Battle for the expanded forces of the Ecclesiarchy.

Don't really belong in that book either. As the Ecclesiarchy isn't allowed any men under arms. Which is why they have the Sisters.

Yeah, and technically, our government is required to get warrants before wiretapping our phones. Your point?

Ironhide wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:Frateris Militia belong, just not in this book. Wait for C: Sisters of Battle for the expanded forces of the Ecclesiarchy.

Don't really belong in that book either. As the Ecclesiarchy isn't allowed any men under arms. Which is why they have the Sisters.

The Frateris Militia aren't men at arms, they're just random citizens that decided to help out the war effort.

AlexHolker wrote:

Ironhide wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:Frateris Militia belong, just not in this book. Wait for C: Sisters of Battle for the expanded forces of the Ecclesiarchy.

Don't really belong in that book either. As the Ecclesiarchy isn't allowed any men under arms. Which is why they have the Sisters.

The Frateris Militia aren't men at arms, they're just random citizens that decided to help out the war effort.

Exactly. Think of the Medieval Crusades - that's basically what you have - uneducated peasantry whipped up into a religous war...

I think if they have to make an Assault Squad for GK's they should make them teleport similar to Warp Spiders, still with SB's but A2 basic.

Also with the Inducted Marines, If they do come up I think Psycannon rounds should be an option, surely if they have the resources to make fighting the demons easier why wouldn't they want to help their fellow marines. It would also help to differentiate them a little from Codex Marines

Either way I can't wait

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Melissia wrote:So you'd rather GW build Grey Knights as an incomplete army that has to rely on other armies in order to function properly?

In short? Yes.

I think Grey Knights are as "complete" as they should be, and that more Inq stuff should be loaded into the book to make up the balance.

I don't think that expansion of the GK line is warranted when their book should be Inq (Heroes & ISTs) + GK/DW + Inducted IG/SMs.

Of course, this is coming from more of a 2E viewpoint...

OK, I'm a bit late to the party, but, yes!

As I mentioned earlier, GK's should be a 'support' element of an army, even their 'own' army.

Still, when one changes the name from Codex: Daemonhunters to Codex: Grey Knights - disappointment is approaching.

Unless, you know, you're a Schadenfreuder of the highest rank, like some appear to be...

Nomoreso than from when C: Sisters of Battle changed to C: Witchhunters.

Let C: DH become C: Inquisition, and all will be well!

The word is that all PA can take teleport as an upgrade...

I've modified this to represent what I was saying before:

Anpu42 wrote:Currently we have without Inquisitors or other.

HQ
-Grand Master
-Special Characters
-(Chaplain, Librarian)
-(Command Squad)

Elites
-Terminators
-(Librarian Dread or Venerable Dread)

Troops
-Power Armor Grey Knights

Fast Attack
-(Storm Raven)

Heavy
-“Devastator” Squad with only 2 types of Weapons available
-Dread
-Land Raider
-Land Raider Redeemer

If they keep those what fills the gaps

If they keep Inquisitorial elements to a minimum and leave out inducted you have this:
HQ:
-Inquisitor with Retinue (can not fill mandatory HQ and is watered down)
-Special Character

Elite:
-Assassins
-Deathcult
-Daemon Host

Troop
-Stormtrooper

Fast Attack:
-Valkyrie

Between the two things its a complete army. I don't think we'd see inducted units carried over, and I don't think we'd see too much standard marine options, but I do think GW will want to invent some new units.
If they get the standard number of models with their release... that'd be 3-4 plastics and 3-4 blisters. I think after hypothetical new character models, we'd see one or two blisters left... if daemonhost are still in I could see them getting redone, maybe if a new units invented they'd be the other blister. Their could always be a 5 model metal box for something like the command squad or anything GW comes up. Plastics seem straight forward enough with, storm raven, fancy dreadnought, power armor GK, Terminator armor GK.

If Codex Witch hunters became Codex Inquisition I actually wouldn't mind at if all the Inquisition (Non Grey Knight) stuff was dropped from Codex Daemon hunters (Codex Grey Knights).

Alpharius wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Melissia wrote:So you'd rather GW build Grey Knights as an incomplete army that has to rely on other armies in order to function properly?

In short? Yes.

I think Grey Knights are as "complete" as they should be, and that more Inq stuff should be loaded into the book to make up the balance.

I don't think that expansion of the GK line is warranted when their book should be Inq (Heroes & ISTs) + GK/DW + Inducted IG/SMs.

Of course, this is coming from more of a 2E viewpoint...

OK, I'm a bit late to the party, but, yes!

As I mentioned earlier, GK's should be a 'support' element of an army, even their 'own' army.

Still, when one changes the name from Codex: Daemonhunters to Codex: Grey Knights - disappointment is approaching.

Unless, you know, you're a Schadenfreuder of the highest rank, like some appear to be...

I think DD is actually pretty right, that GK don't need new units... I think the units they have, have all the zest of the army. Any thing thats added should only accentuate those attribute or be left out.

The idea that GK should be a support element is a skewed perspective of the scope. A GK task force that is a persons army is probably the entire presence of GK on a planet. As an "army" they would support other groups. They themselves would be an autonomous self contained force and just wouldn't need support.They are special operations team that deals in daemonic incursion, they would have their own dedicated support in addition to what happen to be present.

So you think that they shouldn't add in a fast attack troop that teleports around ala warp spiders? I think that'd be fluffy, and it'd certainly be better than the crappy fast attack non-choice they have now.

George Spiggott wrote:If Codex Witch hunters became Codex Inquisition I actually wouldn't mind at if all the Inquisition (Non Grey Knight) stuff was dropped from Codex Daemon hunters (Codex Grey Knights).

Huh? What you say makes no sense at all.

Sisters of Battle had 2E and 3E standalone Codices and represent the Imperial forces of the Ecclesiarchy. Grey Knights were always part of the Heroes of the Imperium, along with Inquisitors and Assassins, thus "Inquisition".

Flipping things around so that the Sisters get all of the Inquisitors and Assassins, which they don't heed, while keeping the Grey Knights as "pure" dilutes the Sisters to the point of pointlessness, while the Grey Knights lose the whole point of being a pure Inquisitional Chamber Militant.

Competing Sisters against ISTs for Troops can only end in disaster, as they're too similar. OTOH, having AAGKs & GKTs supported by ISTs and IG/SMs per RT-era RoC:StD Fluff would make a solid army, similar in concept to Ogre Kingoms - huge uber-guys and a swarm of little dudes.

Melissia wrote:So you think that they shouldn't add in a fast attack troop that teleports around ala warp spiders? I think that'd be fluffy, and it'd certainly be better than the crappy fast attack non-choice they have now.

Back when Bolter and Chainsword were working on a Fandex that was one idea I came up with, but now I worry that it would be stepping on Warp Spider's toes; something like a Gate-like ability (maybe with an 18" range + able to assault so it's not a direct copy of C:SM's) as an option would be nice. Actually, I think the best option for a Fast Attack slot would be some sort of hybrid between a Purgation squad and Teleportation squad: Teleport around while toting 4 Psycannons and get the drop on someone...

I'm resigned to a sparse Inquisition bag in the Daemon hunters book (i.e. a book where fielding a Grey Knight free army will be impossible). I'm not happy about this but I've accepted that this could be the reality.

Given this assumed reality (it's all speculation right now) I would prefer what little Inquisition stuff is in the Grey Knight book to be removed and put into an Inquisition book that covered everything else.

The most logical way to do this would be to have no 'Troops' choices in the book except those tied to a particular character type. e.g. Inquisitor Lord makes Storm Troopers a 'Troops' choice.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Nomoreso than from when C: Sisters of Battle changed to C: Witchhunters.

Let C: DH become C: Inquisition, and all will be well!

Agreed!

Then I can finally get a 'proper' and legal Ordo Xenos force on the table!

Done properly (AAGKs can be armed with uber-Bolters), Ordo Xenos Deathwatch Marines shouldn't be a problem at all.

Me, I'm just wanting my (painted!) Inquisition Stormies to play as such.

Well if they are going to get a stormraven, you don't need a fast attack slot. Or just give GKs the ability to assault out of a drop pod or rhino/chimera/RB.

I'm calling it now that they are including Justicar Alaric as a special character.

Ennkay wrote:I'm calling it now that they are including Justicar Alaric as a special character.

As awesome that would be, I seriously doubt it. Both because Ben Counter's writing (as much as I hate to admit) is generally treated as rubish when it comes to fluff (I get this opinion off B&C) and also, if they do go down that route, you have the problem of the whole 'your too tainted to work with the GK's thing' that happened. Possibly he could come back as a form of inquisitorial agent who make some inquisitorial units turn into troops but making it immpossible to field GK's in the process.

As a quick addition to the fast attack debate, when I imagine Grey Knights, I see fast moving, harding hitting shock troops trained to fight upon fields tainted with the warping effects of chaos. Rules wise, difficult ground. May I bring to note, the only units in a GK army at the moment that take dangerous terrain tests when going over difficult terrain are the vehicles, which, by fluff, are rarely used. Bikes and mounted units would also use up precious deployment time. I'm thinking a GK unit who can teleport (via slightly changed warp gate power) and who could assault the turn they arrive, sort of a teleporting vanguard veterans.

dietrich wrote:Weren't there rumors (or maybe just speculation) that GKs would get jetbikes?

That quote makes my DA's cry

Stickmonkey has stated that the GK Jetbike concept art only got as far as that.

bhsman wrote:Stickmonkey has stated that the GK Jetbike concept art only got as far as that.

Pity. It's one of the few places where Jetbike Marines would make sense (them and Custodes).

Well that is a shame. I've been a strong proponent of GK jetbikes. Who knows, maybe it just means its a 2nd wave unit... I know false hope.

I'm neutral on Grey Knight jetbikes from a game/fluff perspective but I would have loved to see a plastic imperial Jetbike along the lines of the Master of the Ravenwing's ride.

Jack

Correct me if I'm wrong but don't Blood Angels have Stormravens as Heavy Support? I don't see why it would be any different for Grey Knights.

And personally I really hate the idea of GK devastators, it doesn't really suit the GK fluff IMHO.

Yeah, if you read the (excellent) Grey Knight books, they kind of use Terminators for the fire support role that other chapters use Devs for. They use them as a hammer (in a certain marine's case, quite literally) as well. Also, every squad has a psycannoneer in it to provide some heavy fire.

As far as GK fluff goes, I would really like to see holocaust become the usable-in-CC, very short range total-destruction of a spell that it is in the books. While it leaves the guy who uses it drained and in some cases almost dead (multiple ways to represent that), it should be a combat finisher.

Maybe only usable in CC, allows a sort of sweeping advance type test to destroy the unit, but has a chance to wound all the GKs too? that's not balanced, but something like that would be nice to see.

Just Dave wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong but don't Blood Angels have Stormravens as Heavy Support? I don't see why it would be any different for Grey Knights.

Blood Angels also have regular Dreadnoughts as a Heavy Support choice, whereas just about everyone else has them at Elite, so who knows?

And personally I really hate the idea of GK devastators, it doesn't really suit the GK fluff IMHO.

You mean the fluff where they have Purgation squads?

I actually meant that there're generally very few Purgation squads and most Grey Knights fight within the stand unit organisation but meh.

bhsman wrote:Blood Angels also have regular Dreadnoughts as a Heavy Support choice, whereas just about everyone else has them at Elite, so who knows?

Err, what? C:SM can have dreads as heavy support.

Ennkay wrote:I'm calling it now that they are including Justicar Alaric as a special character.

Agreed, but what's the point cost and stats ?:>

wizard12 wrote:

As awesome that would be, I seriously doubt it. Both because Ben Counter's writing (as much as I hate to admit) is generally treated as rubish when it comes to fluff (I get this opinion off B&C) and also, if they do go down that route, you have the problem of the whole 'your too tainted to work with the GK's thing' that happened. Possibly he could come back as a form of inquisitorial agent who make some inquisitorial units turn into troops but making it immpossible to field GK's in the process.

As a quick addition to the fast attack debate, when I imagine Grey Knights, I see fast moving, harding hitting shock troops trained to fight upon fields tainted with the warping effects of chaos. Rules wise, difficult ground. May I bring to note, the only units in a GK army at the moment that take dangerous terrain tests when going over difficult terrain are the vehicles, which, by fluff, are rarely used. Bikes and mounted units would also use up precious deployment time. I'm thinking a GK unit who can teleport (via slightly changed warp gate power) and who could assault the turn they arrive, sort of a teleporting vanguard veterans.

Or just make the books happen after the codex, fluff wise, similarly to what they did to Uriel Ventris and Codex: Space Marines (Captain Idaeus is the cap of the 4th company there)