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I don't think anyone who's proposing new rules for Terminators here is suggesting the cost remain the same. That's kind of a no-brainer...

But I'm still in the "Terminators are just fine as they are" camp.

Yep

Alph: In fluff, a bloodthirster should be a towering beast capable of laying waste to an entire army on its own.

In game turns he dieswhen flooded by 30 basic ork boyz.


In order to alter termies, you would then have to alter alot more units to bring them up to standards.

That was entirely my point, earlier.

But nobody listened.

Par for the course!

There may be a reason for that...

in my Fluffy marine codex i made Terminators immune to Weapons that were Str3 or less. weapons that always wound on a certain roll are uneffected.

Melissia wrote:Why the hell would they be T5? They're still Marines, not some super-entity. Increased WS and BS, I might be able to understand (I disagree with it, but I understand where you're coming from), even increased Initiative I suppose (Though again I disagree, as Terminator armor is not exactly easy to move around in) but increased toughness? No.

Why are people like this (no offence to you) saying that Terminator Armour is harder to move around in and so should not have the initiative gain. Chaplains, Captains etc can have it and they don't have lower I so why not Terminators? I'm not saying they should but am saying that there is no reason they shouldn't.

If veterans in general gained I across the board, I wouldent see a problem with it. I think the fact that terminator armor stops you from advancing or whatever after winning a combat is good enough to reprisent the bulkyness.

Actually there is a good reason why Terminator squaddies don't have I5 and heroic senior officers like Captains do, because the latter are might heroes.

If you want to play "Movie-Marines" just play a squad of Terminators chosen from the Captain entry in Codex: Space Marines.

Nurglitch wrote:If you want to play "Movie-Marines" just play a squad of Terminators chosen from the Captain entry in Codex: Space Marines.

Actually, that might be an interesting 750-pt game. Go up against Eldar Autarch Aspects and Farseer Warlocks, or Nob Boyz and Warboss Nobz.

Guard, of course, stay as they are.

Might make an interesting 1k game too.

140 pts will get 1 captain with termie armor, PW and SB.

5 Captains in termi armor with SB, and PW 700 pts

1 captain with termi armor, SB and TH 160 pts

Libby with Termie armor and SS 140 pts

1k even


7 models


see how long they last against an ork horde.

i can see a deathwatch mission like this

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Nurglitch wrote:If you want to play "Movie-Marines" just play a squad of Terminators chosen from the Captain entry in Codex: Space Marines.

Actually, that might be an interesting 750-pt game. Go up against Eldar Autarch Aspects and Farseer Warlocks, or Nob Boyz and Warboss Nobz.

Guard, of course, stay as they are.

Actually, I once considered using Nobz models as my Boyz, Warboss models as my Nobz, and a converted WHFB Dire Troll as my Warboss - just to show how much bigger and more badass my Orks are than yours!

With all the normal stats for Boyz and Nobz, of course - and the Warbosses would have to somehow fit on 25mm bases.

Grey Templar wrote:7 models

see how long they last against an ork horde.

i can see a deathwatch mission like this

7 Heroes against an army?

WFB did it in 6E, maybe 7E, too.

It's a classic scenario!

Yes, but you forget, WFB can unfortunately become herohammer, which is stupid.

It's stupid when BL does it, too (and damnit they do it way too much).

well, 8th has made taking more heros easier and Troops are much harder to kill.

If you really want them to be improved as far as within-reason buffs go, I'd add 1 to BS to further represent the more stable firing platform (they can already move and fire as if stationary, which is only helpful with assault cannons and launchers) and leave it at that. If you also want to travel back to the days when their armor save was 3+ on 2D6...they'll be all but immune to everything that isn't a power weapon or has an AP of 1 or 2 (I'd recommend treating their armor as 2+ when comparing it to AP values).

Otherwise, meh. I'm happy with them the way they are, to be honest. Although, with my Chosen Terminators, I gave their Aspiring Champion an Icon of Nurgle, if for no other reason then for the Evulz. There's a reason it costs an extra fifty points, but it usually means that (as mentioned above) little short of concentrated and heavy anti-tank fire will bring them down at range. For every uncommon and unlucky 1, most small arms need either a 5+ or a 6 to actually wound. And for high-power stuff like Battle Cannons, the armor shrugs that off with little problem.

The first problem is that EVERY marine is plagued by 4s. Everything is S4, T4 ect ect. Vets get +1 A and +1LD. A champion is the first time stats start becoming different. Captains don't get any tougher. Hell Calgar is half machine and he's the same toughness and strength. There is a lot of "coulda, shoulda" but over all the codexes work. They will never represent fluff.

When you recall that ordinary civilians are 1s, and mobs are 2s, 4s are actually very good. The problem is that SMs sell too much. If IGs and Conscripts and Rabble were properly common, you'd see just how broken 4s are.

JohnHwangDD wrote:When you recall that ordinary civilians are 1s, and mobs are 2s, 4s are actually very good. The problem is that SMs sell too much. If IGs and Conscripts and Rabble were properly common, you'd see just how broken 4s are.

I understand 4s are good, but I'm saying that the entire lineup being 4s really feels disingenuous when you see a scout is as strong as the chaptermaster.

Sure, and the price for that "feel" is rampant number inflation as we had in 2E. Not sure that's a good thing.

Scouts are an odd case, but the answer is that they're generally just less experienced and lacking their black carapace, not that they're physically less strong.

I had a game today that I thought I'd share.

I was playing CSM, and I gave my terminators MOT. But instead of the invul bonus, I gave them +1 BS (I figured 40 points is about how much it's worth). I have to say, they did way better! Much more fun with 5 BS. They earned their points back in a couple turns or shooting.

Although, yes, I know twin linked basically reduces BS 5 to redundacy


The next game I play, I'll give them +1 WS with MoS or something, and I'll see how it goes. Although, I can't really say I'm happy paying +8 points per model for BS 5.....Maybe like 3 points, seriously.

Samus_aran115 wrote:I had a game today that I thought I'd share.

I was playing CSM, and I gave my terminators MOT. But instead of the invul bonus, I gave them +1 BS (I figured 40 points is about how much it's worth). I have to say, they did way better! Much more fun with 5 BS. They earned their points back in a couple turns or shooting.

Although, yes, I know twin linked basically reduces BS 5 to redundacy


The next game I play, I'll give them +1 WS with MoS or something, and I'll see how it goes. Although, I can't really say I'm happy paying +8 points per model for BS 5.....Maybe like 3 points, seriously.

>_< BS5 is good TLBS5 is god damn unreal. I'll list in ascending order of the odds (Just so they line up neatly I've dropped BS when its a TL gun)
BS1 16.6%
TL1 30.3%
BS2 33.3%
BS3 50%
TL2 55.5%
BS4 66.6%
TL3 75%
BS5 83.3%
BS6 86.1%
TL4 88.8% (or BS7)
BS8 91.6%
BS9 94.4%
TL5 97.2% (or BS10)
... I really don't think you should have TL BS5 on a model its just way too over powered.

I gak you not, I have put a TL Lascannon on a Ven Dread, and actually managed to roll two 1s in a row, two turns in a row.

Needless to say, I was angry.

He's toting an assault cannon now.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's really not worth it on CSM terminators, but on Loyalists, it would still be pretty broke

I was thinking of doing something dumb...x5 terminators, all of them are champions, all of them have mark of khorne, all of them have double claws.

That's 5 TL attacks on the charge! WS 5 would be overkill, and probably wasted points.

SaintHazard wrote:I ship you not, I have put a TL Lascannon on a Ven Dread, and actually managed to roll two 1s in a row, two turns in a row.

Needless to say, I was angry.

He's toting an assault cannon now.

those dice ... they should be put to one side for making Leadership tests.

They're Venerable Dreadnoughts, not Infallible Dreadnoughts.

i agree with the plus 1 wound on the terminators. possibly the plus 1 Toughness.

but everything else would be a bit too much to give them considering the equipement that they can take.

i only agree with the +1W because im tired of taking 5 Deathwing terminators at 215 points to have them die from one failed save from shooting. i think alot of people would agree thet the armour they are wearing should provide at least a nulified impact from the shot even if it penetrates there armour.

Regards

I dont think they should get +T or +W because that would be silly, if your saying that terminators should be T5 because they are elite warriors, then what should a spacemarine captain be? or calgar? or any other tough space marine character that are all still t4, at the end of the say.. they are just space marines.

How about we don't have a 2+ save?..

W4 B4 S4 T4 W2 I4 A2 Ld9 3+/5++

...Sure that means that Krak missiles can instant death them with only a 5++ but some how that seems fair.

Or why don't you have a 3+ save that's invulnerable.