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That's because its not in the FAQ... it is in the codex:

"The squad may be joined by any of the following:
- ONE Astropath
- ONE Master of Ordnance
- ONE Officer of the Fleet
- UP TO TWO Bodyguards"

Page 90, IG codex

FoxPhoenix135 wrote:Only if you take 2 company command squads...

Before they FAQ'd it, you used to be able to take a Mortar as a heavy weapon in the squad, and fire it first to help "range in" the MoO's barrage, but they fixed it when it started getting abused.

Honestly while a bit unbalanced, I loved that you could use the mortar to "range in" the artillery. As a real-world mortar infantryman, we did this sort of thing quite often. We'd use a lower-power round such as a non-explosive to range in the coordinates for heavier weaponry.

Ack, not that again! Anyone who used that should be burned as a heretic. Seemed like one of those things that even the person using it knew it was wrong. Ah well, at least it's behind us now.

How does using a mortar to range artillery work? Surely as they are in different places the ballistics would be quite different? Or do you use the mortar to find the range to target and then call in the firepower?

Well I'll explain it the best as I understand it (I only dropped the rounds in the tube and adjusted the mortar to the settings relayed to me by the Fire Control team, so I only have a basic grasp):

All modern artillery is based on information relative to a map grid of the region. The military coordinate system is comprised of a letter code, and a series of digits. The more digits in a string, the more precise the location is. For example, grid location Alpha-Bravo-1-2-3-4 is not as accurate a coordinate as Alpha-Bravo-1-2-3-4-5-6.

Sometimes coordinates come in that are not as accurate, such as using a 6-digit code instead of an 8-digit, so they use nearby mortars to "test fire" the coordinates with non-lethal ammunition to reduce collateral damage. Forward observers on the ground relay adjustments back to the fire-control team based on what they see, which allow the heavy guns to target a more specific set of coordinates. This greatly increases the accuracy of the heavier guns, as well as reduces the chance of unacceptable civilian damages.

Yeah I had a major brain fart.... still for 30 points hes not a bad deal.

I see, that makes sense. Cheers!

FoxPhoenix135 wrote:That's because its not in the FAQ... it is in the codex:

"The squad may be joined by any of the following:
- ONE Astropath
- ONE Master of Ordnance
- ONE Officer of the Fleet
- UP TO TWO Bodyguards"

Page 90, IG codex

Yes, each SQUAD may be joined by any of the following, not each ARMY. You can still field multiple advisers if you bring multiple command squads.

Which if that's what was trying to be done, that's just silly.

Yes, we're going to put the ultra-wrecker MoO of doom squad in a convenient T3 low-number package. Sounds like a great recipe for a lot of points flushed down the tube.

Dracos wrote:Okay then we are left with 9 LC +2 PG+ LL vs 4 ML+3 AC+2 HB+ Conversion beamer.

Remember this is just the difference, not counting the 6 TL AC and 4 LC/TL PG they have in common.

And you don't think that's even comparable? We will then have to agree to disagree.

9 LC comparable to 3 AC & 4 ML???

Attrition Value : Using AV12 as a guide, 9 LC scores 6 hits, 3 pens. 3 AC & 4 ML scores 4 hits & 2.66 hits, and total of 1.5 pens. That alone accounts for 1.5 AV12 worth of difference.
Against AV13 : 3 AC - can't penetrate.
Against AV14 : 3 AC & 4 ML can't penetrate.
Against infantry, that's 9 armor ignoring shots against 10 non armor ignoring shots (6 of which can't even instant kill T4s and negate FNPs).

There is a reason why LC cost twice as much as ML.

Point Value : 9 LC is equivalent to the cost of 18 ML. So that's like 18 ML against 3 AC & 4 ML.

Comparable? I think my wealth is comparable to Warren Buffett's as well

DAaddict wrote:I am in the minority but voted for Eldar.

I would vote for Eldar too, but in Apocalypse.

Firepower is useless if it:

- Is out of range
- Is out of line of sight
- Locked in combat
- Pinned
- Stunned/Shaken
- In cover

Firepower needs to be adjusted for reliability, for example. Twenty one Space Marine Missile Launchers, it seems, are better than Thirty Imperial Guard Missile Launchers, when firing Krak Missiles at Rhinos.

Range puts a hard and fast limit on what can be hurt. Same with being locked in combat, or otherwise unable to shoot. An army in cover should receive about 1/2 the damage of an army without cover, for example.

The best shooty army isn't the one with the most guns, it's the one that can use them most effectively, and that is clearly the Tau.

Nurglitch wrote:
The best shooty army isn't the one with the most guns, it's the one that can use them most effectively, and that is clearly the Tau.

You forgot to contribute to this thread : - http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/331539.page

Do it now.

Ailaros wrote:

Yes, each SQUAD may be joined by any of the following, not each ARMY. You can still field multiple advisers if you bring multiple command squads.

Which if that's what was trying to be done, that's just silly.

Yes, we're going to put the ultra-wrecker MoO of doom squad in a convenient T3 low-number package. Sounds like a great recipe for a lot of points flushed down the tube.

I always have at least one MoO, sometimes two just for fun, and it is a rare game that they don't earn their points. Heck, even a round that misses and takes out a rhino has earned it's points. And with BiD, you have a good chance of hitting something, and if they are spread out enough to make it hard for you to hit with the scatter, you can just concentrate your forces and roll them up.

Even against SM in cover, I'd rather them have to take 4+ then 3+, and a stray shot against a rhino or chimera is almost sure to penetrate it. And if your really worried about survivability, throw them in cover.

Nurglitch wrote:Firepower is useless if it:

- Is out of range
- Is out of line of sight
- Locked in combat
- Pinned
- Stunned/Shaken
- In cover

Firepower needs to be adjusted for reliability, for example. Twenty one Space Marine Missile Launchers, it seems, are better than Thirty Imperial Guard Missile Launchers, when firing Krak Missiles at Rhinos.

Range puts a hard and fast limit on what can be hurt. Same with being locked in combat, or otherwise unable to shoot. An army in cover should receive about 1/2 the damage of an army without cover, for example.

The best shooty army isn't the one with the most guns, it's the one that can use them most effectively, and that is clearly the Tau.

Thank you! You are the first one to offer up the amazingness that is the Markerlight. Markerlights are so versatile, that they can solve almost all of the problems that the tau have. Reduce enemy cover, boost ballistic skill, reduce enemy leadership, eliminate night fighting (ok not that big, but it has its uses), and guiding in seeker missiles.

I honestly feel that the markerlight makes tau shooting equal to IG shooting. Not better, just equal.

PraetorDave wrote:Thank you! You are the first one to offer up the amazingness that is the Markerlight. Markerlights are so versatile, that they can solve almost all of the problems that the tau have. Reduce enemy cover, boost ballistic skill, reduce enemy leadership, eliminate night fighting (ok not that big, but it has its uses), and guiding in seeker missiles.

I honestly feel that the markerlight makes tau shooting equal to IG shooting. Not better, just equal.

Actually not entirely true, only to a certain extent :-). PathFinders too, faces the problem of
- Is out of range
- Is out of line of sight
- Locked in combat
- Pinned
and they're static.

Definitely Guard. Space Wolves are a close second.

Surprisingly though, Orks are high on my list. Purely for sheer volume of firepower.

S_P

Guard makes the best pie.

These polls never fail to amaze. Tau got more votes than Wolves? Tau are way down on the list of shootiest armies.

I guess if people go off of the fluff then this poll is accurate, but wolves and IG are without debate the best shooting armies (and a well built wolf list has the edge), followed by Vanilla Marines, DE and BA.

But that is from a math hammer point of view. I suppose if people are looking at it from a fluff perspective then the poll is fairly accurate.

Reecius wrote:These polls never fail to amaze. Tau got more votes than Wolves? Tau are way down on the list of shootiest armies.

I guess if people go off of the fluff then this poll is accurate, but wolves and IG are without debate the best shooting armies (and a well built wolf list has the edge), followed by Vanilla Marines, DE and BA.

But that is from a math hammer point of view. I suppose if people are looking at it from a fluff perspective then the poll is fairly accurate.

But Stelek says Tau is better than SW. And Stelek doesn't say things for fluff reasons.
And more Guns really doesn't mean more shooty.

Reecius wrote:These polls never fail to amaze. Tau got more votes than Wolves? Tau are way down on the list of shootiest armies.

I guess if people go off of the fluff then this poll is accurate, but wolves and IG are without debate the best shooting armies (and a well built wolf list has the edge), followed by Vanilla Marines, DE and BA.

But that is from a math hammer point of view. I suppose if people are looking at it from a fluff perspective then the poll is fairly accurate.

I think if you were to remove the assault phase from the game the tau would come out the winner between SW and Tau.

Blacksails wrote:Space Wolves and Tau can put out more shots than guard, but guard easily throws out the most templates of any kind. Executioners, Demolishers, Battlecannons, heavy flamers on Chimeras, all the artillery pieces, Hellhounds and their variants...hell, there's even armoured sentinels with plasma cannons if you really want.

I'm assuming you wrote this after a severe blow to the head.

NO ONE can roll more dice than IG. Period. Even in a straight up comparison of basic infantry units the IG can roll more dice. Even with no upgrades of any sort the IG squad can throw 28 dice thanks to FR-F! SR-F!. And that's for a third of the cost of 10 "naked" Grey Hunters. Add in all the ridiculous firepower of the other units (park a fully equipped Punisher and you can roll 33 dice) and you'd be lucky to have enough dice in the store to roll all the possible shots of a 2,000 point Guard army in a single throw.

Davicus wrote:But Stelek says Tau is better than SW.

so?

I didn't realize Stelek's opinions where gospel. :/

odorofdeath wrote:I didn't realize Stelek's opinions where gospel. :/

Only if your Stelek

Yes, the church of Stelek. one of the many cults to have formed around 40k.

Members must worship the Dark Apostle Stelek and hang on his every word. they must also lurk around YTTH, and any other forums, and pounce on any opposing viewpoints.

How about people ignore irrelevancies like Stelek and discuss the topic at hand?

I enjoy when Stelek says one thing than gos and plays wolves ...

Sanguinary Dan wrote:NO ONE can roll more dice than IG. Period.

Orks

Tyranids!

6 x 30 Termagaunts -Devours 1800pts

540 Devour Shots

damn son. thats quite some dakka

Lol but the army would be so bad. No Anti tank at all.

Mike Noble wrote:Lol but the army would be so bad. No Anti tank at all.

Tervigon - AG/TS/ST/Catalyst 200pts

180 Termagaunts with devours 1800pts

3 x 3 hive guard 450pts

2450pts

hey i got 50 pts spare

So should I add another 500 points to my ML Spam list above to prove IG can outshoot nids?