Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Saying "sorry, ig all day long" implies that you proved me wrong. If that was not your intent, then I'm confused as to what purpose the sentence serves or what else it could be trying to communicate.

Tzeentchling9 wrote:

Lol!

NOT... ENOUGH... DAKKAAAAA....

Seriously, though, I know it's a stereotype, but I'm kind of surprised to see guard walk away with this one so easily. There are other shooty armies that are reasonable competitors, like ork and tyranid (or the new DE for that matter).

Dracos wrote:Saying "sorry, ig all day long" implies that you proved me wrong. If that was not your intent, then I'm confused as to what purpose the sentence serves or what else it could be trying to communicate.

i'll try to be more clear for you:
in my opinion it's sorry, ig all day long is my reply to the poll.
sorry if i came across as i was picking, attacking or anything you personally.

Yeah I guess I was way off base by thinking the comment was directed to me after you quoted me.

Dracos wrote:Yeah I guess I was way off base by thinking the comment was directed to me after you quoted me.

your taking the idea of giving the Typhoons 2 weapons gave me the idea of the Hydras with 3. i was quoting what you said at the bottom and was to lazy to remove
the irrelevant bits.
last time i'm addressing this. i was not coming after you, as mentioned. we drug this OT enough, i'm sorry if i came off that way.
and am done talking about this. Happy gaming!

Hard to even compare the HS slot choices of the Guard against everything else.

How many points is the 9 hydras anyways?

not very much.

i don't think they are more then 100 pts each.

of course they are on a Basilisk Chassis so they fall over to a stiff wind.

Dracos wrote:How many points is the 9 hydras anyways?

675 points.

For 36 twin linked S7 AP4 shots a turn with your choice of 9 heavy bolters or 9 heavy flamers.

Of course, they do sort of get diminishing return.

And plenty of HS choices hold a candle to the guard. The guard has good HS slots because they're CHEAP not because they're necessarily the BEST (well, except for maybe the manticore)

Only 675?! 75 points a piece?

Wow, not that I play IG, but I think taking 3 units of 2 for 450 is pretty killer. Add in some vets in flying 3 TL las planes and some chimeras and you are putting out alot of dakka.

I'm kinda surprised that I don't see more of them used at that price. Makes my new DE cringe.

Nevermind, my Succubus is whispering in my ear that the hydras are terrible. Quick, everyone, don't take them. They are bad.

True story.

Dracos wrote:Only 675?! 75 points a piece?

Wow, not that I play IG, but I think taking 3 units of 2 for 450 is pretty killer. Add in some vets in flying 3 TL las planes and some chimeras and you are putting out alot of dakka.

I'm kinda surprised that I don't see more of them used at that price. Makes my new DE cringe.

Nevermind, my Succubus is whispering in my ear that the hydras are terrible. Quick, everyone, don't take them. They are bad.

True story.

I think the fact that the FW version is so freakin' expensive could be a factor. if GW does a Plastic vesion, they might be more around.
i use them.

Orks.

An Ork army can take 45 autocannons just in its Elite slots. They can fire up to 135 S7 shorts per turn. Add onto that Shoota Boys, which have the best shots-per-point in the game with their assault 2 weapon, and the various Fast Attack and Heavy Support options. For isntance, a Battlewagon could have a S7 killkannon, a S8 kannon, and four S8 rokkits. Or you could fill those slots with nine kannons for more S8 transport-busting goodness.

Of course, the Ork shooty army does have a glaring weakness that the others don't; no way to deal with AV 14 at range. But going by sheer mass of ranged firepower, the Ork gunline is the indisputable king.

I chose tau as they have no good assault units (kroot don't have enough attacks), guard aren't good at assault either but tau are better at shooting.

TRISKELION7 wrote:I chose tau as they have no good assault units (kroot don't have enough attacks), guard aren't good at assault either but tau are better at shooting.

You really think that!

Tau have a broken codex, BS 4!
I think that anyone who votes Tau have obviously not had much experience with armies such as guard or Marines. Just because Tau haven't got good assault units doesn't mean that their shooting units are any better.

IMHO the Tau;s problem isnt their guns, their actualy guns are amazing, in fact if you handed pulse and rail weapons to just about any other army then they would be a holy terror.

Unfortunately tau models are A Expensive and B Mediocre Shots

I mean is their a tau player out there who would quite happily go down to a 5+ save just to get a points decrease? on FW?



On topic, IG, so much.....

I voted for IG with all their cool tanks; addtionally, they have cheap heavy weapon teams.

Imperial Gunli... Guard.

Dracos wrote:Only 675?! 75 points a piece?

Yes, but...

BeRzErKeR wrote:An Ork army can take 45 autocannons just in its Elite slots.

Lootas do it even more.

Those exact same 675 points gets you 45 lootas, which put down up to 135 autocannon shots per turn. Yes, they're not twin-linked and only BS2, but in the case of guard, you're putting down about 27 hits, while with the orks, you're putting down about 45 hits.

Same price, up to nearly twice the carnage.

Plus, Lootas can get cover saves rather easily, while hydras are stuck with squadron rules...

The lootas do not put down 135 shots per turn. They put down 45-135 shots a turn, averaging 90 shots. 90 shots averages 30 hits. 27 hits isn't that much less than 30, and the 27 hits ignore flat out cover save. They both have their positives and negatives. But lets not over state how good lootas are by assuming they hit a 3 shots a turn every turn.

I'd say tau since their troops of an above standard gun IMO. Railguns too.

I'm voting for either Orkz or IG. IG are an obvious choice, and Orkz can come pretty damn close to matching the volume of fire that Guard can provide. The main difference between the two is how you can apply that firepower.

I dont understand why people think Tau are shootier than Guard because "Their basic troops have st5 guns" and "they have Krrot, and suck in CC". tau have nowhere near the quantity or, dare I say, the quality of HS choices. While its true that s5 guns on your troops is great, it loses its luster when you notice that a Guardsman is nearly half the points of this said model (Fire Warriors if you didnt get it).

Tau also are extremely limited in their HS choices. Broadsides are good, but put out a max of 3 s10 shots a turn per unit. While that isnt bad, compare it to guard who can poop out d3 s10 pieplates for 50 pints less. Not counting the requisite drones and support systems to make the Broadsides survivable.

IMO the Tau codex is is just badly designed... Guardsmen can excel at combat while sacrificing some shooting options (taking guardsmen instead of Vets). Tau have...um...Kroot. yeah.

just my opinion

As a note, hydras do not ignore cover saves, they just ignore SMF. Plus, lootas can't get shut down by weapon destroyed results and can still be deadly on the charge, but I digress...

I'd agree that tau aren't the best shooters, but I'd say the above assessment misses a few things.

Tau HS support choices aren't the best out there, but you're still talking about something which has twin-linked S10 weapons and a 2++ with shield drones. Likewise, the hammerhead is still a skimmer, and with pods is allowed to gain SMF without moving too fast to actually shoot it's cannon. A cannon which, my the way, is also good against hordes. I mean, seriously, compare the hammerhead to any other skimmer-based HS choice...

Also, with extra range and S5, tau infantry are able to handle monstrous creatures by themselves, which no other basic troops choice can easily do, and they don't need to bring special weapons just to handle AV10 vehicles.

Finally, the thing that's missing is crisis suits. You can take units that deepstrike and throw down 6 melta (or 12 no-overheat plasma) shots without your opponent being able to do anything about them before they get their opening salvo off. They're like cheap sternguard.

Oh, and everything can be helped my markerlights.

The problem with tau shooting isn't that it's weak per se, it's that it's more difficult to use properly than other armies.

Crisis suits and broadsides are why Tau are so good at shooting, not firewarriors. Railguns are the best antitank weapon in the game. They fall just short of IG because all the IG stuff is more cost efficient, even if its not has high quality.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dracos wrote: the 27 hits ignore flat out cover save.

Ailaros wrote:As a note, hydras do not ignore cover saves, they just ignore SMF.

Yep that's what I said.

Oh, lol. I thought you said "ignores, flat out, cover saves" not "ignores flat-out cover saves".

Stupid english.

Exactly. And even though the Broadsides are tough to kill, they are still vulnerable to instant death. Also hammerheads are as good as HS skimmers come I guess... which, IMO, is not very. mine never managed to do much besides get focused fired' because people are so scared of it. And rightly so

Kabalite Trueborn with splinter cannons (or blasters) in a venom (with splinter cannons) puts out an obscene amount of BS4 poisoned shots. This is great for stopping hordes dead in their tracks with mobile firepower. Give them blasters and they can suddenly waste vehicles and elite choices (MEQ look out!). Take a 20 man unit of warriors, plop them in area cover near an objective and rapid fire anything in range. I also love ravagers for obvious reasons.

Imperial Guard in every single way I can't even see the debate.

the debate is that there are other armies that can spam quantity, like ork and tyranid, and there are other armies that can spam quality, like space marines, eldar, and tau.

Really, the only thing unique about guard shooting is that it has lots of sources of cheap pie, which no other army can do as well.

That and the army's firepower is much better balanced, but that might just be a codex thing, not a army-in-general thing.

I was going to vote IG, but your poll made the mistake of asking the 'shootiest' army, and no army is more shootier then da orks! Who cares if you miss 2/3 of your shots, dakkadakkadakka!