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Made in br
Deadly Dark Eldar Warrior



Curitiba, Brazil

I'd like to ask not only dash but anyone out there to take pictures or print-screens from vassal to add up to this thread.

Dash's already helping a lot, it would be nice if other DE generals contribute not only strategically to this discussion.

A good example of it is dayve110 for his Chess-Raider-Blockage print-screen.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Feasting on the souls of unworthy opponents

And...done!

I need to take some pictures or Vassal screenshots to illustrate some of these tactics, but this is it in a nutshell. My wife thinks I shouldn't be divulging so many of my secrets, but I present them to you to learn from.

Hulksmash and Dashofpepper put the fear of Xenos into people at They Shall Know Fear
Dashofpepper's Guide to Tournament Preparation, Survival and Success!
 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





Thanks for this really interesting and illuminating guide. i don't play Dark Eldar, but it's been very educational nonetheless.

The psychology of 'playing the man, not the board' is one of the most interesting aspects of gaming -- of all sorts, and one that I think is sadly neglected by many players. I'm glad to see it touched on at the end.

Choose an army you can love, even when it loses - Phil Barker
 
   
Made in us
Uhlan





Colorado, USA

Dash... so that cruel, malicious mindset you speak of at the beginning of your article. Would you say that should be uniquely DE? Or is that an attitude you'd advocate any 40k player adopting?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/04/05 19:36:15


4th Aleutian Heavy Mechanized 2500
Tournament Record: 3-1-1, 1 Best General Championship.

***Boycotting Games Workshop until they Cease and Desist their douchebaggery***.

Khador: 65 pts eButcher & Zerkova 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Belerephon wrote:Dash... so that cruel, malicious mindset you speak of at the beginning of your article. Would you say that should be uniquely DE? Or is that an attitude you'd advocate any 40k player adopting?


I think it was DE specific. Eldar can't do that and tyranids focus on working together as one. DE being so fragile, they have to destroy everything asap.

OTOH, you shouldn't think about focusing on objectives to easily in the game. In an objectives based mission, your opponents scoring units should be on your mind.
   
Made in us
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine




Denver, CO

I’m going to insert the assaulting rules here to save you a trip through your rulebook for references.

-Your assaulting unit must move your closest model to the closest model of the enemy unit you’ve declared as your primary target.
-Every other model in the unit now has your assault distance (either 6” or the highest of 2d6) to do anything they want, provided you meet the following conditions:
-Every model that can get into base must.
-You must move into base into base with models not in base contact first.
-Independent Characters move in first.
-Every model you move into assault must retain coherency with a model that has already moved in (except for the first one assaulting in of course).

Defenders react uses the same rules – everyone who can get into base must do so, and unengaged (or models not in base contact already) take precedent. With those things in mind, here are some nifty tricks.


You may want to double check this I'm pretty sure independent Characters do not have to move in first during an assault. The "Out of my way" or barge through rule is only for when the defenders react.

For assault shenanigans it's also important to remember that you must move in a straight line, the shortest possible distance for the first model. This means you can force terrain checks with clever placement.
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut





The assault tactics are pretty useful for anyone really... we just don't use and abuse these enough (streching your troop to only get a few in CC and reducing enemy response with vehicle comes to mind).

Good read, and I like the way it was brought up for all.
   
Made in cn
Blackclad Wayfarer





From England. Living in Shanghai

Just thought I would mention Dash that when making assault moves IC's don't have to move in first (in your haemonculi example). It's only when making pile in moves that they have to do so. For the longest time I thought the same too. Had to have it physically shown to me before I believed my opponent. And when I get home I'm gonna triple check it...

Looking for games in Shanghai? Send a PM 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Lukus83 wrote:Just thought I would mention Dash that when making assault moves IC's don't have to move in first (in your haemonculi example). It's only when making pile in moves that they have to do so. For the longest time I thought the same too. Had to have it physically shown to me before I believed my opponent. And when I get home I'm gonna triple check it...


Page 49
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Feasting on the souls of unworthy opponents

Lukus83 wrote:Just thought I would mention Dash that when making assault moves IC's don't have to move in first (in your haemonculi example). It's only when making pile in moves that they have to do so. For the longest time I thought the same too. Had to have it physically shown to me before I believed my opponent. And when I get home I'm gonna triple check it...


Page 49 is your reference, but I believe it was contentious...so the GW FAQ to the main rulebook clarified it. If there's an IC, you move closest to closest as part of your declaration of assault, then move any IC next. Unless....your IC is too far away! =D

*edit* Nope! I was wrong. I just reread the FAQ. Well, even better then, you don't have to worry about spacing to keep your ICs out of combat.

*further edit* I modified my first post to reflect my error. Thanks for the catch!


*further further edit* I've added my first set of pictures to demonstrate one of the scenarios I was talking about.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2011/04/06 01:46:41


Hulksmash and Dashofpepper put the fear of Xenos into people at They Shall Know Fear
Dashofpepper's Guide to Tournament Preparation, Survival and Success!
 
   
Made in us
Hauptmann




Diligently behind a rifle...

wileythenord wrote:I don't like you giving away all my Dark Eldar rules manipulations...Hopefully only our Dark Kin are reading this thread and not our enemies!



Bwahahaha, I am learning all of your dastardly army's tactics.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In all honesty though, this is an excellent thread for advice beyond just DE. Deployment, cover and movement shenanigans are very useful, no matter what army you use.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/04/06 02:47:49


Catachan LIX "Lords Of Destruction" - Put Away

1943-1944 Era 1250 point Großdeutchland Force - Bolt Action

"The best medicine for Wraithlords? Multilasers. The best way to kill an Avatar? Lasguns."

"Time to pour out some liquor for the pinkmisted Harlequins"

Res Ipsa Loquitor 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Feasting on the souls of unworthy opponents

And...I added pictures and walkthroughs of some of my explanations.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/04/06 03:00:41


Hulksmash and Dashofpepper put the fear of Xenos into people at They Shall Know Fear
Dashofpepper's Guide to Tournament Preparation, Survival and Success!
 
   
Made in us
Lethal Lhamean






Venice, Florida

I certainly give this effort a thumbs up (I'm pretty sure I even recall telling you one or two of these ) But you added a lot of practical application stuff that I've never touched on in anything I've done (or seen explained concisely elsewhere) and I think it is good for new DE players to understand stuff like why some of our deployments look like awkward jumbles of models wedged together. Very cool stuff and well put together.

P.S. I usually listen to Sabaton's Art of War album prior to games - glad to know I'm not the only one who psyches up.

Thor665's Dark Eldar Tactica - A comprehensive guide to all things DE (Totally finished...till I update bits and pieces!)
Thor665's battle reports DE vs. assorted armies.
Dashofpepper wrote:Thor665 is actually a Dark Eldar god, manifested into electronic bytes and presented here on dakkadakka to bring pain and destruction to all lesser races. Read his tactica, read his forums posts, and when he deigns to critique or advise you directly, bookmark it and pay attention.
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Feasting on the souls of unworthy opponents

Thor665 wrote:I certainly give this effort a thumbs up (I'm pretty sure I even recall telling you one or two of these ) But you added a lot of practical application stuff that I've never touched on in anything I've done (or seen explained concisely elsewhere) and I think it is good for new DE players to understand stuff like why some of our deployments look like awkward jumbles of models wedged together. Very cool stuff and well put together.

P.S. I usually listen to Sabaton's Art of War album prior to games - glad to know I'm not the only one who psyches up.


Well, you are a God among Dark Eldar.

I'm just the Lord of the Dark Eldar.

Hulksmash and Dashofpepper put the fear of Xenos into people at They Shall Know Fear
Dashofpepper's Guide to Tournament Preparation, Survival and Success!
 
   
Made in us
Malicious Mandrake





Dashofpepper wrote:I'm just the Lord of the Dark Eldar.


For now...... There are always usurpers in Commoragh, Dash, your Incubi cannot protect you all the time....

Oh wait, new codex.....let me try that again!!

There are always usurpers in Commoragh, Dash, your Court of the Archon cannot protect you all the time.... or hardly any of the time for that matter from my playtesting....

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/04/06 03:36:58


Kabal of Isha's Fall 12000PTs

Best DE advice ever!!!
Dashofpepper wrote:Asking how to make a game out of a match against Dark Eldar is like being in a prison cell surrounded by 10 big horny guys who each outweigh you by 100 pounds and asking "What can I do to make this a good fight?" You're going to get violated, and your best bet is to go willingly to get it over with faster.


And on a totally different topic:
Dashofpepper wrote:Greetings Mephiston! My name is Ghazghkull Thraka, and today you will be made my bitch.
 
   
Made in us
Terminator with Assault Cannon





Great thread, makes me want to play Dark Eldar.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Feasting on the souls of unworthy opponents

Galador wrote:

There are always usurpers in Commoragh, Dash, your Court of the Archon cannot protect you all the time.... or hardly any of the time for that matter from my playtesting....


Hrm....you must not be familiar with the kind of armies that I play.

Presume that you'll be overrun with wyches, and those whips are NOT for BDSM.

Hulksmash and Dashofpepper put the fear of Xenos into people at They Shall Know Fear
Dashofpepper's Guide to Tournament Preparation, Survival and Success!
 
   
Made in us
Malicious Mandrake





Dashofpepper wrote:
Galador wrote:

There are always usurpers in Commoragh, Dash, your Court of the Archon cannot protect you all the time.... or hardly any of the time for that matter from my playtesting....


Hrm....you must not be familiar with the kind of armies that I play.

Presume that you'll be overrun with wyches, and those whips are NOT for BDSM.


If their not, you are not using those wyches for some of the things they are best at!!! Makes the soul taste sweeter when they whip the prisoner a bit first!!

Besides, I didn't say I had to come after you anytime soon.... a few millenia from now, when your slower, and not quite as attentive, that is when I will strike!!!

Kabal of Isha's Fall 12000PTs

Best DE advice ever!!!
Dashofpepper wrote:Asking how to make a game out of a match against Dark Eldar is like being in a prison cell surrounded by 10 big horny guys who each outweigh you by 100 pounds and asking "What can I do to make this a good fight?" You're going to get violated, and your best bet is to go willingly to get it over with faster.


And on a totally different topic:
Dashofpepper wrote:Greetings Mephiston! My name is Ghazghkull Thraka, and today you will be made my bitch.
 
   
Made in us
Lethal Lhamean






Venice, Florida

SO...basically at the end of a Morgan binge is what I'm hearing?

Thor665's Dark Eldar Tactica - A comprehensive guide to all things DE (Totally finished...till I update bits and pieces!)
Thor665's battle reports DE vs. assorted armies.
Dashofpepper wrote:Thor665 is actually a Dark Eldar god, manifested into electronic bytes and presented here on dakkadakka to bring pain and destruction to all lesser races. Read his tactica, read his forums posts, and when he deigns to critique or advise you directly, bookmark it and pay attention.
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Feasting on the souls of unworthy opponents

Thor665 wrote:SO...basically at the end of a Morgan binge is what I'm hearing?


Pssh...that's every major tournament. If I'm not swaying at the table by 11:00 AM, its only because I forgot to bring it. If I don't think every word out of your mouth is uproariously funny by 2:30 PM, I couldn't find a liquor store on the lunch break.

Hulksmash and Dashofpepper put the fear of Xenos into people at They Shall Know Fear
Dashofpepper's Guide to Tournament Preparation, Survival and Success!
 
   
Made in us
Malicious Mandrake





Dashofpepper wrote:
Thor665 wrote:SO...basically at the end of a Morgan binge is what I'm hearing?


Pssh...that's every major tournament. If I'm not swaying at the table by 11:00 AM, its only because I forgot to bring it. If I don't think every word out of your mouth is uproariously funny by 2:30 PM, I couldn't find a liquor store on the lunch break.


So what do you do if you forget it at your hotel and its Sunday??? At least its Sunday in a state that doesn't sell alcohol on Sundays, let me refine that a bit.

Whats the alternative? Rubbing alcohol? Listerine? Nyquil??? maybe turpentine??

Kabal of Isha's Fall 12000PTs

Best DE advice ever!!!
Dashofpepper wrote:Asking how to make a game out of a match against Dark Eldar is like being in a prison cell surrounded by 10 big horny guys who each outweigh you by 100 pounds and asking "What can I do to make this a good fight?" You're going to get violated, and your best bet is to go willingly to get it over with faster.


And on a totally different topic:
Dashofpepper wrote:Greetings Mephiston! My name is Ghazghkull Thraka, and today you will be made my bitch.
 
   
Made in us
Uhlan





Colorado, USA

"You get a free rotate during your movement phase. Rotating gives a 2.5" bonus!"

So in the rulebook it says that "turning does not reduce the vehicle's move." However, in effect you are using turning to increase the move to 14.5" from the original starting point, which is not covered in the rules. I don't feel that this is legal... can one of the Vets direct me to a FAQ on this or something?

4th Aleutian Heavy Mechanized 2500
Tournament Record: 3-1-1, 1 Best General Championship.

***Boycotting Games Workshop until they Cease and Desist their douchebaggery***.

Khador: 65 pts eButcher & Zerkova 
   
Made in us
Malicious Mandrake





Belerephon wrote:"You get a free rotate during your movement phase. Rotating gives a 2.5" bonus!"

So in the rulebook it says that "turning does not reduce the vehicle's move." However, in effect you are using turning to increase the move to 14.5" from the original starting point, which is not covered in the rules. I don't feel that this is legal... can one of the Vets direct me to a FAQ on this or something?


Actually, in the BRB pg. 57, the same part where you read about turning, read the next line or two. It tells you taht pivoting on the spot does not count as movement. That is the answer to what you are asking and what Dash is talking about.

Kabal of Isha's Fall 12000PTs

Best DE advice ever!!!
Dashofpepper wrote:Asking how to make a game out of a match against Dark Eldar is like being in a prison cell surrounded by 10 big horny guys who each outweigh you by 100 pounds and asking "What can I do to make this a good fight?" You're going to get violated, and your best bet is to go willingly to get it over with faster.


And on a totally different topic:
Dashofpepper wrote:Greetings Mephiston! My name is Ghazghkull Thraka, and today you will be made my bitch.
 
   
Made in nz
Longtime Dakkanaut



New Zealand

Belerephon wrote:"You get a free rotate during your movement phase. Rotating gives a 2.5" bonus!"

So in the rulebook it says that "turning does not reduce the vehicle's move." However, in effect you are using turning to increase the move to 14.5" from the original starting point, which is not covered in the rules. I don't feel that this is legal... can one of the Vets direct me to a FAQ on this or something?


The pivot trick has been around since 3rd and GW hasn't made any attempt to remove it, its perfectly legal. Its not a huge factor in most cases because pivoting still counts as movement for any passengers, so closed top vehicles like Rhinos don't get anything out of it, and vehicles which are roughly square (most Imperial vehicles) don't get a huge gain from it in any case. The Raider and the Land Raider are the two main vehicles which use it, stuff like Battlewagons can use it, but they don't like being side on to things.
   
Made in gb
Mighty Brass Scorpion of Khorne






Dorset, UK

Thanks for taking the time to write all this up Dash
I've been lurking and reading throught as you update it each day and have found it really helpful, I've got a few questions though...

Do you still think 3x Beastmasters, 5x Khymerae, 4x Razorwing Flocks is the optimum load out for a beast squad? I've been playing around with them (in theory) for a week or two and can't make my mind up. I'm testing 2 or 3 set ups tonight (one as you suggested, one with an extra khymerae or two and one with a 4th master and 2 more flocks), but can't see how the'll have the killing power to get through a tactical squad or something, or the survivability to avoid flocks geting instasplatted by power fists ect.

Will you be getting pic's for some of the "abusing assault mechanics" section? I think I followed most of it, but I think they'd help if you have the time

Thanks again for making the thread!

   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Feasting on the souls of unworthy opponents

Gorechild wrote:Thanks for taking the time to write all this up Dash
I've been lurking and reading throught as you update it each day and have found it really helpful, I've got a few questions though...

Do you still think 3x Beastmasters, 5x Khymerae, 4x Razorwing Flocks is the optimum load out for a beast squad? I've been playing around with them (in theory) for a week or two and can't make my mind up. I'm testing 2 or 3 set ups tonight (one as you suggested, one with an extra khymerae or two and one with a 4th master and 2 more flocks), but can't see how the'll have the killing power to get through a tactical squad or something, or the survivability to avoid flocks geting instasplatted by power fists ect.

Will you be getting pic's for some of the "abusing assault mechanics" section? I think I followed most of it, but I think they'd help if you have the time

Thanks again for making the thread!


Uh...I did....add pics....for some of the stuff......like 15-20.

Alright, in terms of beastmasters...

1. They don't get insta-splatted by powerfists because you have 4+ invulnerable saves on one-wound khymerae.
2. They don't get nuked by tactical squads because you have 5 wounds on a razorwing, and a couple extra beastmasters to toss wounds onto.
3. You go first. 4 beastmasters and 10 khymerae....that's 40 attacks at I6 at STR4, a few more from the beastmasters and whatever you've equipped them with, then 24 more from the razorwings at I5, only at STR3, but with bonus rending. You'll do some damage to a tactical squad before they attack back.

I don't think that there's an "optimal" setup for beast units - just whatever you think is the size you need for what you want them for. I think two units would be a good idea - I never did it because I didn't have the models.

Hulksmash and Dashofpepper put the fear of Xenos into people at They Shall Know Fear
Dashofpepper's Guide to Tournament Preparation, Survival and Success!
 
   
Made in au
Devious Space Marine dedicated to Tzeentch





Gotta say I got a good laugh out if the image of you headbanging to Mudvayne
Specifically the image of that cat in your DP headbanging

Also enjoyed the article, even though I dont play Dark Eldar, very illuminating
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




loved the article.
the pictures gave clarity to concepts that are alot easier to see than visualize.
the main thing I took from this is this:

be aggressive! I cannot say it enough that when i've lost or come close to losing a game, it has been because i've second guessed myself or chose to "see what my opponent is going to do" and played the counter game.

DE is all about strike first, strike hard, no mercy and all that good stuff. period.

it's nice, dash, that you made it a point to emphasize this over and over in your post. it can't be said enough. waiting around with paper airplanes and toothpicks will only see bad things happen.

"Nothing is so exhilarating in life as to be shot at with no result."
- Winston Churchill
 
   
Made in us
Malicious Mandrake





Powerguy wrote:The pivot trick has been around since 3rd and GW hasn't made any attempt to remove it, its perfectly legal. Its not a huge factor in most cases because pivoting still counts as movement for any passengers, so closed top vehicles like Rhinos don't get anything out of it, and vehicles which are roughly square (most Imperial vehicles) don't get a huge gain from it in any case. The Raider and the Land Raider are the two main vehicles which use it, stuff like Battlewagons can use it, but they don't like being side on to things.


Had to answer this because it was in another thread wrong also... pivoting only counts as movement for anything embarking or disembarking that turn. Other than that it does NOT count as movement for passengers in a vehicle.


Dash, gotta ask if you ever go on VASSAL and not bet money on the game??? If so, I would love to fight one before I am gone for a year. Just PM me and let me know so we can maybe setup a date aand time for it, thanks!!!

Kabal of Isha's Fall 12000PTs

Best DE advice ever!!!
Dashofpepper wrote:Asking how to make a game out of a match against Dark Eldar is like being in a prison cell surrounded by 10 big horny guys who each outweigh you by 100 pounds and asking "What can I do to make this a good fight?" You're going to get violated, and your best bet is to go willingly to get it over with faster.


And on a totally different topic:
Dashofpepper wrote:Greetings Mephiston! My name is Ghazghkull Thraka, and today you will be made my bitch.
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Feasting on the souls of unworthy opponents

I hardly ever play for money. There are simply too few people with the balls to back up their attitude.

I mostly use Vassal to playtest. I've been on there fairly often the last couple of weeks trying to find GK players so that I can get a feel for what they are like. I'm Dashofpepper on Skype. If you want a Vassal game against me, the best way to do it is to get Skype if you don't have it, add me to your friends' list, and send me a PM to schedule a game.

Hulksmash and Dashofpepper put the fear of Xenos into people at They Shall Know Fear
Dashofpepper's Guide to Tournament Preparation, Survival and Success!
 
   
 
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