DreamForge Games Leviathan Crusader (Storm Troopers page 9)

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**RiTides**

The Leman Russ to Baneblade is a great comparison... it needs to be on the Leman Russ side of the range (but not necessarily all the way down- I think you can do $60 just fine if needed for the size).

I was going to say 1/100, but it seems like the consensus is 1/87! And it makes sense... 5.6" doesn't sound like it'll be too big, I guess my only concern would be its "diameter" so to speak- will it be able to stand on the correct base. That's kind of important

Awesome that you're working on it! People like me, who don't play 40k, could be tempted to field a board full of little behemoths running around fighting each other... ooooooh yes

. And using model train scenery at 1/87 scale (I wasn't aware that was its scale was, but it seems to be true) would be fantastic.

In other words, you'd probably draw me in with that, despite my ability to resist so far!

**His Master's Voice**

NoseGoblin, would you mind sharing your rapid prototyping company? There are some impressively sharp details on those parts...

**Mad4Minis**

RiTides wrote:The Leman Russ to Baneblade is a great comparison... it needs to be on the Leman Russ side of the range (but not necessarily all the way down- I think you can do $60 just fine if needed for the size).

I think $60 for a Leviathan almost 6 inches tall would be an awesome deal. This product has great volume sales potential if the price is kept in the proper range. Once you hit $75 or more your getting close to Forgeworld range, where more people wish than buy. Keep it to the $50-$60 range and it should be a financial goldmine.

A big thing to remember is that these will be compared to the dreadknight, and seen as a substitute/counts as. It will be a far better looking item, but it wont have nearly the options spread, so keeping the price competitive to the dreadknight ($53.75) should make up for the lack of included options.

**NoseGoblin**

As many of you pointed out the detail on a larger cast will show better, my main concern is that the parts are thick enough to cast well and sturdy enough to survive. I am thinking about doing some parts in white metal if the cost does not go up because of this.
I would not imagine the print costs between to smallest and the largest will be much different. The main cost factor for the kit is not the initial print. Although it plays some part in the figures, it’s more a function of how many I need to sell to make my investment back. The cost per kit tied to what the caster has to charge me to produce the kit. This is a function of size and number of parts, both translate into extra costs to the caster.
I hear what you’re saying about cost… I have the model down to 31 parts from its original 140 or so, 8 of these are just small detail parts like the chest cannons and reactor dump plugs on the back.
I will post some pics up soon. I think with the size and the revised part count we will not have an issue keeping this within the $45-60 range. I will not know for certain until the caster comes back with a per unit cost.

His Master's Voice wrote:NoseGoblin, would you mind sharing your rapid prototyping company? There are some impressively sharp details on those parts...

I use Moddler, John is a fanastic guy and he does this kind of thing (gaming miniatures) often, so he understands what we need. very happy with his price and service. The surfaces are so clean and crisp because I take the time to bench them (clean them). It took me two months to clean the parts of the Leviathan to master, mold ready parts. Although John does a great job on the prints, it takes some elbow grease to get rid of the micro stepping.

A link to Moddler, tell him Mark sent you.. http://www.moddler.com/

All the best,
Mark-

**His Master's Voice**

Man, thanks for that link. This guy knows what he's doing even with relatively small prints, which isn't common.

**Mad4Minis**

NoseGoblin...I wouldnt worry about sales volume as long as the price is fair...as you have seen there are many people who will be all over these for dreadknights, dreadnaughts, deamon princes, etc.

**ruyn**

So will you be doing the smaller Mortis when you do the 15mm Crusader or will there be 2 separate releases?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, will there be weapon variants for the 15mm scale versions as well?

**NoseGoblin**

ruyn wrote:So will you be doing the smaller Mortis when you do the 15mm Crusader or will there be 2 separate releases?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, will there be weapon variants for the 15mm scale versions as well?

Right now the Crusader is out for quote... I had to merge the armor into the arms to keep the costs down on the casts and deal with the thickness issues that would have come from a 1mm thick part. I will come back at the non-armored Mortis after I see the costs involved with this print.

I am having the following weapon options printed for the Crusader:

Left hand sword
Right and left Vulkans
Right and Left claws

These seemed to be the popular options from the pre-orders.

**Grundz**

will the 15mm ones still have the integral chest weapons and such? some of the details are really small!

//eagerly awaiting preorders for them

**Mad4Minis**

NoseGoblin wrote:
ruyn wrote:So will you be doing the smaller Mortis when you do the 15mm Crusader or will there be 2 separate releases?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, will there be weapon variants for the 15mm scale versions as well?

Right now the Crusader is out for quote...

I am having the following weapon options printed for the Crusader:

Right and Left claws

Sweet, that means I can have a baby version of my 28mm Crusader.

**ruyn**

NoseGoblin wrote:
ruyn wrote:So will you be doing the smaller Mortis when you do the 15mm Crusader or will there be 2 separate releases?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, will there be weapon variants for the 15mm scale versions as well?

Right now the Crusader is out for quote... I had to merge the armor into the arms to keep the costs down on the casts and deal with the thickness issues that would have come from a 1mm thick part. I will come back at the non-armored Mortis after I see the costs involved with this print.

I am having the following weapon options printed for the Crusader:

Left hand sword
Right and left Vulkans
Right and Left claws

These seemed to be the popular options from the pre-orders.

I was kind of hoping for left and right sword arms for the 15mm version so that I could have a dual-wielding crusader and a dual clawed mortis. For me, the smaller version is going to represent something entirely different from the larger, so I wanted the weapon load-out to be different.

Are the torso guns going to be separate pieces like the big version? I'd really like for them to be separate so that if we so choose, we could put our own weapons on.

**Mad4Minis**

ruyn wrote:
NoseGoblin wrote:
ruyn wrote:So will you be doing the smaller Mortis when you do the 15mm Crusader or will there be 2 separate releases?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, will there be weapon variants for the 15mm scale versions as well?

Right now the Crusader is out for quote... I had to merge the armor into the arms to keep the costs down on the casts and deal with the thickness issues that would have come from a 1mm thick part. I will come back at the non-armored Mortis after I see the costs involved with this print.

I am having the following weapon options printed for the Crusader:

Left hand sword
Right and left Vulkans
Right and Left claws

These seemed to be the popular options from the pre-orders.

I was kind of hoping for left and right sword arms for the 15mm version so that I could have a dual-wielding crusader and a dual clawed mortis. For me, the smaller version is going to represent something entirely different from the larger, so I wanted the weapon load-out to be different.

Are the torso guns going to be separate pieces like the big version? I'd really like for them to be separate so that if we so choose, we could put our own weapons on.

The sword and scythe are useable for either arm in the 28mm version, Id assume the same will likely be true for the 15mm versions. The claws had to be side specific because of the thumbs & finger lengths, and the vulkans because of the ammo feed.

**NoseGoblin**

Mad4Minis wrote:
ruyn wrote:
NoseGoblin wrote:
ruyn wrote:So will you be doing the smaller Mortis when you do the 15mm Crusader or will there be 2 separate releases?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, will there be weapon variants for the 15mm scale versions as well?

Right now the Crusader is out for quote... I had to merge the armor into the arms to keep the costs down on the casts and deal with the thickness issues that would have come from a 1mm thick part. I will come back at the non-armored Mortis after I see the costs involved with this print.

I am having the following weapon options printed for the Crusader:

Left hand sword
Right and left Vulkans
Right and Left claws

These seemed to be the popular options from the pre-orders.

I was kind of hoping for left and right sword arms for the 15mm version so that I could have a dual-wielding crusader and a dual clawed mortis. For me, the smaller version is going to represent something entirely different from the larger, so I wanted the weapon load-out to be different.

Are the torso guns going to be separate pieces like the big version? I'd really like for them to be separate so that if we so choose, we could put our own weapons on.

The sword and scythe are useable for either arm in the 28mm version, Id assume the same will likely be true for the 15mm versions. The claws had to be side specific because of the thumbs & finger lengths, and the vulkans because of the ammo feed.

Unfortunately this is not the case. The armor needed to be merged into the arms and the armor is left/right specific... so having a left and right sword arm will not be possible.

**MeanGreenStompa**

NoseGoblin wrote:
Mad4Minis wrote:
ruyn wrote:
NoseGoblin wrote:
ruyn wrote:So will you be doing the smaller Mortis when you do the 15mm Crusader or will there be 2 separate releases?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, will there be weapon variants for the 15mm scale versions as well?

Right now the Crusader is out for quote... I had to merge the armor into the arms to keep the costs down on the casts and deal with the thickness issues that would have come from a 1mm thick part. I will come back at the non-armored Mortis after I see the costs involved with this print.

I am having the following weapon options printed for the Crusader:

Left hand sword
Right and left Vulkans
Right and Left claws

These seemed to be the popular options from the pre-orders.

I was kind of hoping for left and right sword arms for the 15mm version so that I could have a dual-wielding crusader and a dual clawed mortis. For me, the smaller version is going to represent something entirely different from the larger, so I wanted the weapon load-out to be different.

Are the torso guns going to be separate pieces like the big version? I'd really like for them to be separate so that if we so choose, we could put our own weapons on.

The sword and scythe are useable for either arm in the 28mm version, Id assume the same will likely be true for the 15mm versions. The claws had to be side specific because of the thumbs & finger lengths, and the vulkans because of the ammo feed.

Unfortunately this is not the case. The armor needed to be merged into the arms and the armor is left/right specific... so having a left and right sword arm will not be possible.

So the multi-barrelled gun and power gauntlet combo is out?

**coyotius**

NoseGoblin wrote:
ruyn wrote:So will you be doing the smaller Mortis when you do the 15mm Crusader or will there be 2 separate releases?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, will there be weapon variants for the 15mm scale versions as well?

Right now the Crusader is out for quote... I had to merge the armor into the arms to keep the costs down on the casts and deal with the thickness issues that would have come from a 1mm thick part. I will come back at the non-armored Mortis after I see the costs involved with this print.

I am having the following weapon options printed for the Crusader:

Left hand sword
Right and left Vulkans
Right and Left claws

These seemed to be the popular options from the pre-orders.

From what I understand the vulkan/claw combo is in...

**Grundz**

NoseGoblin wrote:
Unfortunately this is not the case. The armor needed to be merged into the arms and the armor is left/right specific... so having a left and right sword arm will not be possible.

wouldnt it be more economical to have a more generic bicep/ area and have the elbow attach to that with a universal mount so that you could put whatever arm you wanted on a bicep?
it would cut down on total required molds as far as I understand and simplify the whole arm/weapon thing, for some of them at least

**NoseGoblin**

You can have a look at the 15mm versions on my blog.

http://dreamforge-games.blogspot.com/2011/05/on-bench.html

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Grundz wrote:
NoseGoblin wrote:
Unfortunately this is not the case. The armor needed to be merged into the arms and the armor is left/right specific... so having a left and right sword arm will not be possible.

wouldnt it be more economical to have a more generic bicep/ area and have the elbow attach to that with a universal mount so that you could put whatever arm you wanted on a bicep?
it would cut down on total required molds as far as I understand and simplify the whole arm/weapon thing, for some of them at least

It is.. it's the Mortis. The armor for the Crusader arms fracked all that up. The Mortis can swap left or right with no concern other than if the weapon its self is a left or right.

Too late to go back and completely redesign the armor, its all water under the bridge at this point.

**coyotius**

Two questions NG. First, are all the leg variants included in the kit or will we specify when we order (I suspect the latter)? Second, do you forsee another pre-order period or straight to retail? If pre-order do any of us 50, who kindly supported your 28mm venture, get a shot at a pre-pre-order?

**NoseGoblin**

coyotius wrote:Two questions NG. First, are all the leg variants included in the kit or will we specify when we order (I suspect the latter)? Second, do you forsee another pre-order period or straight to retail? If pre-order do any of us 50, who kindly supported your 28mm venture, get a shot at a pre-pre-order?

I hope to make the leg choice available at the time of purchase. I also plan on selling and Armored Lance, three kits with all three pose options for the legs and torso hydraulics included.

If the price is right, I will have the caster make me 50 at a time and go straight to production skipping the pre-order.

**coyotius**

Hmmm...Armored Lance. May have to buy.

All sounds good NG...great job getting everything lined up so fast.

**Padre**

Mark,

Looking brilliant - I'd say I've just found another purchase!

Padre^.

**sekerra**

Looking great, I am really looking forward to the smaller Mortis ones. As always, you are really making them look sharp.

I will definately be buying some lances of the smaller ones to go with my larger Leviathans... So far I am waiting impatiently to see the Mortis ones... and trying to be good on asking on the other weapons you had up on the planned ones for the future. (Some of the weapons you have planned look sooo wicked and fun.)

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hmmm any idea about when you will be making the optional arms you linked earlier in the thread?

I know when you offer them I am definately going to be ordering at least one of each of the following for my 28mm Mortis:

Hel Cannon
Nova Cannon
Ripper
Grendel Siege Mortar

and likely some of the others as well. Not to mention ordering at least a lance of the smaller 15mm scale mortis, and various extra weapons.

*grin* loving the models so far and looking forward to your game once the rules come out.

**Mad4Minis**

Lance option is interesting.

I know Ill be picking up a Crusader, wouldnt mind a Mortis as well. Maybe a lance of each later on.

**AvatarForm**

NoseGoblin wrote:You can have a look at the 15mm versions on my blog.

http://dreamforge-games.blogspot.com/2011/05/on-bench.html

Now to finish studies and get back to work so I can buy this one...

**Manchu**

I'm very excited about this release and, as I said when we first brought this up pages ago, you can count on me ordering or even pre-ordering one of these. Amazing turn around time thus far (knock on wood).

**inqscott**

Went over dreamforge today website down. I hope this is just a snapfu

**ruyn**

inqscott wrote:Went over dreamforge today website down. I hope this is just a snapfu

Just went there. Works fine for me.

*EDIT
Ok, so now it's not working... at least the forum's not anyway.

*EDIT #2
Ok, now the whole thing is down. Perhaps their server is being glitchy?

**cyrax777**

Defenatly picking up one of the 15mm ones alot cooler then a power armored baby carrier.

**AvatarForm**

Received an email from Dreamforge today, unfortunately, the schedule has been pushed back due to problems with the out of house casters.

Greetings,

You are receiving this email in regards to the production schedule of the Leviathan Mortis and Crusader models and accessories.

Unfortunately, my out of house caster has not been able to keep to his original production dates as promised in the Pre-Orders. They had some issues with materials and scheduling of other customer orders that ultimately effected their promised completion date of my project.

The production completion dates are listed below. Each column is a production batch, with all customer names that are in each batch. The bottom of each column shows the date that the batch will be completed by the caster and sent to me. The order of the names and batches is determined by the order in which they were received. Once they have been cast, they will be shipped to DreamForge, where we will inspect and box each model for shipping to our customers. You will receive a shipping notification on the day your purchase ships.

Batch 1 customers fall within a few days of the pre-order timeline of 60 days from the date the pre-orders closed.

Batch 2 can expect an extra ten day (10) wait beyond the original pre-order expected ship date.

Batch 3 can expect an extra twenty day (20) wait beyond the original pre-order expected ship date.

Batch 3 can expect an extra thirty (30) day wait beyond the original pre-order expected ship date.

I truly apologize for the delay, please know that I have done everything I could to work with the caster and make these delays as short as possible. I have made my feelings very clear regarding this issue and my caster has assured me that they can and will stick to this schedule. I have also made it very clear that the quality of the castings must be the best they can produce, as we no longer have a buffer to replace mis-casts or other defects. They have agreed and assured me that the quality control will not be sacrificed in order to meet the production schedule.

At this time, I would like to offer a refund to any customer that chooses to do so. If the caster cannot stay on schedule, I will again offer the option of a full refund to all open orders.

I know of three customers that are currently serving in our armed services. Should you wish to keep your order but need a change in shipping address, or need us to hold an order in house until you reach your new station, we would be happy to oblige.

If you have any questions, concerns or requests to change your shipping address, you are welcome to respond to this email.

Once again, you have my sincere apologies.

Mark Mondragon

DreamForge-Games

Luckily, I am in Batch 1.

**Kirasu**

Batch 2.. Small companies have unforeseen delays, its doesnt bother me but I want to see Dreamforge succeed so each delay makes me think less people stick around

Even companies like PP have massive delays!