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I just found this thread and found it rather interesting as I am building a version of wraith wing army myself and here is my take on it...on a side note, for a lack of models I am just using warhammer sepulchral stalkers as wraiths and the FW tomb stalker as my triarch stalkers. I know that the tomb stalkers do not match codex art but they are bad mofo models. Anyway here is my list.....

HQ
Stormy

Elite
2x tri-arch stalkers with the heat ray

Fast Attack
3x 4 wraiths...(one reg., one with coils, 2 with particle casters)

Heavy
3x Annihilation Barge

Troops
10 immortals
5 warriors (reserve)
9 warriors
8 warriors
Ghost Ark (which will support the 8 and 9 man warrior squads and keep their numbers up or move one of them for late game objective taking)

This is the list I will be using and the only current variation I am looking at is losing a squad of wraiths for 9 scarab bases and 2 extra warriors...

Just thought I would throw my two cents into the conversation...thanks...

My 1500 wraith wing is as follows:
Dlord, Scarabs + Weave
10 Warriors
-Ghost Arc
8 Warriors
3*6 Wraiths (2whips, 2 pistols)
3 Annihilation Barges

To bring it to 1850, I'd probably add Overlord warscythe in a CCB to remove rear AV14, and top up on more warriors.

Just wondering, since jump infantry and wraithflight, can wraiths deepstrike into terrain without fear or mishaps? from my interpretation it sounds fine, and denying the enemy a chance to see them the turn they arrive would be vital.

I think the one thing that hurts a wraithwing competitively is the number of S8 anti-tank and the lack of tanks to shoot in a wraithwing. Guess where all those long fangs are now pointing?

shadzinator wrote:Just wondering, since jump infantry and wraithflight, can wraiths deepstrike into terrain without fear or mishaps? from my interpretation it sounds fine, and denying the enemy a chance to see them the turn they arrive would be vital.

It really depends if you count Deep Strike mishap as a terrain test. I would argue that it is not specifically a terrain test, it is just something that is cause by terrain. But I imagine with will come up in a FAQ.

My Wraith Wing includes a solar pulse for first turn protection, but even still I think the Barges will take priority for long range S8 spam initially, it depends on enemy target priority but as an opponent I would take them out first and use my dedicated combat unit to try counter-charge the Wraiths.

Sectiplave wrote:

shadzinator wrote:Just wondering, since jump infantry and wraithflight, can wraiths deepstrike into terrain without fear or mishaps? from my interpretation it sounds fine, and denying the enemy a chance to see them the turn they arrive would be vital.

It really depends if you count Deep Strike mishap as a terrain test. I would argue that it is not specifically a terrain test, it is just something that is cause by terrain. But I imagine with will come up in a FAQ.

My Wraith Wing includes a solar pulse for first turn protection, but even still I think the Barges will take priority for long range S8 spam initially, it depends on enemy target priority but as an opponent I would take them out first and use my dedicated combat unit to try counter-charge the Wraiths.

Deep striking into area terrain is not a mishap. It causes a dangerous terrain test (which wraiths auto-pass thanks to wraithflight).

Why do so many people think that deep striking into area terrain causes a mishap? That is not the case at all... Mishaps only occur when you deep strike on top of an enemy unit, off the board, or onto impassible terrain.

tetrisphreak wrote: Why do so many people think that deep striking into area terrain causes a mishap? That is not the case at all... Mishaps only occur when you deep strike on top of an enemy unit, off the board, or onto impassible terrain.

Was there anything like this in 4th Ed? I was taught to play by a 3/4th edition player, recently I've actually had to correct him on a few things he has been doing the 'old school' way, this is probably one of them.

But yes you are totally right about DS into terrain, a very useful tactic for Wraiths. Depending on my opponents list and deployment I would indeed keep them in reserve to deep strike and use Zahndrekh's ability to get them on the board quickly where I want them.

Sectiplave wrote:
Was there anything like this in 4th Ed? I was taught to play by a 3/4th edition player, recently I've actually had to correct him on a few things he has been doing the 'old school' way, this is probably one of them.

But yes you are totally right about DS into terrain, a very useful tactic for Wraiths. Depending on my opponents list and deployment I would indeed keep them in reserve to deep strike and use Zahndrekh's ability to get them on the board quickly where I want them.

I'm pretty sure area terrain did cause a mishap in 3rd, but it's been a while.

Anpu-adom wrote:

WanderingFox wrote:Its worth noting that wraiths don't have deep strike, so the only way they're deepstriking in is from a monolith portal.

I thought that Wraiths got Deep Strike because their are Jump Infantry. I'm new, so I could very well be wrong there

That,,, is entirely true. I stand corrected. All the armies i've played have older codexes that list the deep strike rule explicitly. my bad

Out of curiosity has anyone tested a C'Tan in a WraithWing list? I'm thinking of adding in a Time's Arrow C'Tan just to see how it does. It can hide behind Barges and Arks as it moves forward. I've not had bad luck in the pst even with DE poison out there. If you present enough targets he isn't usually priority one.

I haven't tested out the C'tan shard yet, this is mainly as I was skeptical of how well they survive with a 4+/4++ while being vulnerable to S4, once you add a pair of powers, the cost is high for a singular MC, if he is made a priority target that is a fairly large chunk of points that has not earned it's cost.

Times arrow plus whip coils, yes this does sound good as an assassination combo, I just feel the C'tan even while ignoring terrain tests due to 'Immune to Natural Law' is going to hinder the wraiths movement to get this combo to work, this gives time for your opponent to wise on to what you are about to try, I can't help but feel it's a bit of a gimmick that people will recognize before long and make it a priority to stop.

I'm all for battle testing it and seeing how a shard goes, what would be your second power if you do try Assassin's Arrow and why? Personally I'd like to test out Grand Illusion paired with Zahndrekh for deployment baiting and then deepstriking elsewhere.

If I'm using a cc C'Tan Shard - which I think is the way to go - then Gaze of Death/Time's Arrow at 275 points. That's Landraider points there. The few times I've seen C'Tan used they have aleays made it into battle. If you play barges, arks and wraiths, the C'tan must be ignored for few turns. Why would you prioritize it and get run over by everything else? That's time enough to get into cc especially with a pulse.

felixcat wrote:If I'm using a cc C'Tan Shard - which I think is the way to go - then Gaze of Death/Time's Arrow at 275 points. That's Landraider points there. The few times I've seen C'Tan used they have aleays made it into battle. If you play barges, arks and wraiths, the C'tan must be ignored for few turns. Why would you prioritize it and get run over by everything else? That's time enough to get into cc especially with a pulse.

The problem is, basically, Venomspam.

Any Dark Eldar player will happily shoot two Venoms to kill your C'tan, whilst channeling Dark Lance fire into your vehicles. As one of two foot targets (Wraiths - maybe multiple units or C'tan), the C'tan is really just an easy KP. And like you said, Landraider in points dead to two Venoms does not a happy necron make...

Yeah that is the survivability issue that I have with the C'tan shards, Dark Eldar have become a fairly popular army and I'm seeing a few of them showing up at tournaments these days.

Nid's are also able to swarm him with poisoned attacks too which they just will not reasonably survive. I can't shake the feeling it's not a reliable tactic and has too many points invested for it to go wrong. It further reduces the ability of the wraith wing to be a take all comers army.

I don't really know what to do with C'tans. I feel like those points are just better used to bring more guns to the fight. They should have priced it closer to the Avatar of Khaine or Daemon Princes, or given it some movement options. it's too expensive for how ineffective it can be. Writhing Worldscape and Grand Illusion look to be the only powers which justify the points spent; and of the two, only Worldscape has an ongoing effect. I do like 'singulariy' and lord of fire; but I don't know if I like them enough to sink the points into the model.

Vs Any other armies but DE and nids with poison (which, granted, can be more easily avoided than shooting poison splinter cannons) the c'tan's survivability is far greater. Also with deep striking monoliths, a c'tan can be held in reserve, hidden, and ported through a 'lith after it hits the table to get it into the wheel house of close combat. In the meanwhile venoms are target priority #1 with ravagers at a very close #2. Once they're knocked out the c'tan can run rampant through the enemy lines.

However all that having been said, If i expect a dark eldar opponent i'll find somewhere else to spend 250 points than a c'tan. If i'm going to a tournament where i'm not sure on which opponents i'll see, I might risk the expenditure. Remember, a land raider is a good unit vs everyone but dark eldar, too.

tetrisphreak wrote:. Also with deep striking monoliths, a c'tan can be held in reserve, hidden, and ported through a 'lith after it hits the table to get it into the wheel house of close combat.

I think slotting one into a more general Necron list is possible, but I don't see any room or real tactical advantage for a Monolith in a Wraith Wing list over all.

Here's my try.
Being a footlist it's immune to anti-tank weps because, well there are no tanks. It's got +80 models, pretty good for crons.

Flayed ones are pretty meh normally but I think they synergies well with the whip coils as I2 is really their biggest weakness. They also make good infiltrating screens/distractions. Also peep how much rending it has. I like rending.

I went with tesla because hopefully the mass immortals will be behind everything else and not really bothered with all the much more immediate threats infront of them. Tesla gets better the more shots fired.

Here goes

Hq-250
Destroyer Lord-125
Destroyer Lord-125
Troops-680
x10 Immortals, tesla-170
x10 Immortals, tesla-170
x10 Immortals, tesla-170
x10 Immortals, tesla-170
x5 Immortals, tesla-85
Fast-720
x6 Wraiths, x3 Coils-240
x6 Wraiths, x3 Coils-240
x6 Wraiths, x3 Coils-240
Elites-
x10 Flayed One-130
x10 Flayed One-130
total-1995



Automatically Appended Next Post:
If you're bringing a C'tan with times arrow, which is a pretty cool combo I'd never thought of, why would you take gaze? that's way too much points. Take the stealth one. Quite cheap, comes with assault grenades and improves survivability greatly.

Flayed ones are useless, doubly so without imotekh

Over 9000! wrote:Here's my try.
Being a footlist it's immune to anti-tank weps because, well there are no tanks. It's got +80 models, pretty good for crons.

Flayed ones are pretty meh normally but I think they synergies well with the whip coils as I2 is really their biggest weakness. They also make good infiltrating screens/distractions. Also peep how much rending it has. I like rending.

I went with tesla because hopefully the mass immortals will be behind everything else and not really bothered with all the much more immediate threats infront of them. Tesla gets better the more shots fired.

Here goes

Hq-250
Destroyer Lord-125
Destroyer Lord-125
Troops-680
x10 Immortals, tesla-170
x10 Immortals, tesla-170
x10 Immortals, tesla-170
x10 Immortals, tesla-170
x5 Immortals, tesla-85
Fast-720
x6 Wraiths, x3 Coils-240
x6 Wraiths, x3 Coils-240
x6 Wraiths, x3 Coils-240
Elites-
x10 Flayed One-130
x10 Flayed One-130
total-1995

WanderingFox wrote:Flayed ones are useless, doubly so without imotekh

I don't mind Flayed ones in this list. I think that they can serve a purpose. There is no doubt that Imotekh makes them better, but I don't think that you NEED him.

The main problem I have with this list is very limited range on the guns. You don't have ANYTHING with AP or a range longer than 24". Yes, your Tesla Immortals have an effective range of 30", but they are going to have a hard time with any vehicles or assault marines that break away from your Wraithwing.

To summarize, is taking 260 points of Flayed Ones better than taking 270 points of Annihilation Barges? Simply, no. I feel that the Barges support with Wraithwing better than the Flayed Ones. I might go 130 points of Flayed Ones and 180 points of Annihilation Barges. But of course, it's your list and army. Play it your way!

Anpu-adom wrote:

I don't mind Flayed ones in this list. I think that they can serve a purpose. There is no doubt that Imotekh makes them better, but I don't think that you NEED him.

The main problem I have with this list is very limited range on the guns. You don't have ANYTHING with AP or a range longer than 24". Yes, your Tesla Immortals have an effective range of 30", but they are going to have a hard time with any vehicles or assault marines that break away from your Wraithwing.

To summarize, is taking 260 points of Flayed Ones better than taking 270 points of Annihilation Barges? Simply, no. I feel that the Barges support with Wraithwing better than the Flayed Ones. I might go 130 points of Flayed Ones and 180 points of Annihilation Barges. But of course, it's your list and army. Play it your way!

You're right about the lack of ap. It is kind of worrying. If I took barges tho they'd be the only vehicles in the whole list and would be picked on mercilessly, never making it passed the 2nd turn tops. I like barges and they're a hellava bargain normally but value and survivability change drastically depending on what else is in the list. What I could do is take out a destroyer lord for an overlord with phearon and x5 lance crypteks. Or maybe a C'tan idk

Over 9000! wrote:I like barges and they're a hellava bargain normally but value and survivability change drastically depending on what else is in the list. What I could do is take out a destroyer lord for an overlord with phearon and x5 lance crypteks. Or maybe a C'tan idk

With the way entropic strike works currently, if you can afford it 4x lanceteks and 1xharptek is actually very effective.

The barges would be a huge target and would most likely get dropped after a turn or two, but that is some heat off your regular troops while you get into position also, I'd give it a shot with both configs and see which you like playing more.

The truth is, if you want that foot list to be stronger, replace the 3x6 wraiths with 3x10 scarabs or spam gauss.

junk wrote:The truth is, if you want that foot list to be stronger, replace the 3x6 wraiths with 3x10 scarabs or spam gauss.

Yeah that's the cold hard truth of it really. The wraiths are very mobile which is why I am not happy with large amounts of foot troops and want a night scythe model badly. They are hindered by the rest of the list foot slogging, I think a Wraith Wing list needs Wraiths to the key unit with the rest of the list build around them to fill in the gaps and support them.

junk wrote:The truth is, if you want that foot list to be stronger, replace the 3x6 wraiths with 3x10 scarabs or spam gauss.

Eh, id go two units of wraiths, 1x 10 scarab unit and 9 spyders.

lazarian wrote:

junk wrote:The truth is, if you want that foot list to be stronger, replace the 3x6 wraiths with 3x10 scarabs or spam gauss.

Eh, id go two units of wraiths, 1x 10 scarab unit and 9 spyders.

He needs to drop more than just a Wraith squad to get 9 Spyders. Then he needs Imotek or pulse Crypteks so you have the cover to get the scarabs and spyders where they need to be. The moment you include 450 points minimum worth of spyders you are looking at a scarab farm list not a Wraith wing really.

If you were to run a Spyder+Wraith wing what would be your tactics for deployment and over all game plan? I'm not sure it's the same sort of list we have been looking at tactics for really.

Agree with Sectiplave, I don't mind fielding 12 wraiths and 10 scarabs in a wraithwing, but once you start dropping annihilation barges for spiders, you're better off just dropping out of the wraithwing build.

Wraiths need the fire support of the barges/scythes (or gauss filled or Royal arks) in order to be really effective; otherwise they're better off just relegated to a 1x6 support choice. Once you start investing in wraiths, You want to justify the expense by taking advantage of them.

Back on the subject of the WW; any thoughts on praetorians with VB/PC setups? It's an elite choice that matches the Range/Mobility of the wraiths and may provide a better home for a Rez-orb toting D.Lord - Three Entropic/Rending Attacks on the charge x 10 praetorians with 12" S6 Shooting attacks is a meaty t5 assault force.

Maybe in a 2000 point WW rather than an 1850, they are pretty expensive on top of 15-18 wraiths.

I like the ideas guys, I was toying with spyders as they're the only non-vehicle heavy in the book. But this isn't a scarab farm list and I don't want it to be. Then it hit me, how about ccb's? I think they'd synergies well with wraiths. I like this list because everything has a big shoot me sign on it so no matter what happens some killy stuff will get where it needs to be. Without the destroyer lords hopefully the wraiths will be shot at less. Here's draft two, I didn't like what the 2000 looked like so this is 2500
Hq-710
Overlord, warscythe-100
CCB-80
Overlord, warscythe-100
CCB-80
x5 Lancetecks-175
x5 Lancetecks-175
Troops-700
x5 Warriors-65
x5 Warriors-65
Ghost arc-115
Ghost arc-115
x10 Immortals-170
x10 Immortals-170
Fast-685
x6 Wraiths, x3 Coils-240
x6 Wraiths, x3 Coils-240
x5 Wraiths, x3 Coils-240
Elites-130
x10 Flayed One-130
Heavy-270
Annihilation Barge-90
Annihilation Barge-90
Annihilation Barge-90
2495

I don't understand where the 10x Lanceteks will go. You've only got 4x troops units.

azazel the cat wrote:I don't understand where the 10x Lanceteks will go. You've only got 4x troops units.

Each Royal court starts off as it's own unit composed of the Crypteks and Lords that you choose to include, it is only optional that they split off to lead other units. I imagine he is running them as the stand alone Royal court units, with their range and assault weapon they can still foot slog it and start taking shots fairly early, you will want to move them into cover pretty quickly though.

Something I've noticed that has been tripping people up is that you can only actually send one person per royal court to lead another unit. So you cannot actually take a squad of 8 warriors and send two Crypteks or a Tek and Lord to that squad unless you have two royal courts and send one from each.

Oh, that's his plan. In that case, it's a bad idea. Not splitting up the Royal Court is the best way to ensure your opponent marks them as a high priority target and focuses fire. Then yo're stuck with way too many points under heavy fire. And your own utility is decreased, because 6x Str 8 shots are better when they can be split up to hit multiple targets if need be.

Better to drop the number of Lanceteks down to 2x per troops unit. It'll also let you keep them alive longer, as 2x Laneteks and 5x Warriors means you need to take 5x wounds before your first Lancetek dies, whereas a Lancetek dies on the first wound in the Royal Court.

azazel the cat wrote:Better to drop the number of Lanceteks down to 2x per troops unit. It'll also let you keep them alive longer, as 2x Laneteks and 5x Warriors means you need to take 5x wounds before your first Lancetek dies, whereas a Lancetek dies on the first wound in the Royal Court.

Yes I would agree with this especially in an 1850 list. Running a unit of T4, 4+ save, single wound expensive models is going to make for easy pickings.

Back on the a tactics topic, you could run the Cryptek squads into terrain and take advantage of their range while you push forward with the Barges, Arks Wraiths towards the enemy. This should hopefully push the Cryptek squad further down the priority list to give them time to put some hurt on vehicles where possible. I also agree with spamming 5 can be a bit wasteful for attempting something like popping a Rhino, so to synergise with the rest of the list you could drop one each to replace with a Harp equipped Transmogrification Cryptek, if they fail to destroy the target at least the AV is reduced for next turn or for Tesla spam to have a shot.