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I figured that would be the first suggestion.

I've only used imotekh once, and I found him to be a waste of points; but with half a dozen scythes flying in and out of night fighting range, he's actually a cheap alternative to 2 OverLords and 2 Pulseteks.

My current WW runs Anrakyr in CCB, 1 pulse tek, 1 lance tek, and a Dlord with mindmonkeys. I'm usually thrilled with the performance of that block. Just trying to squeeze max scythes in there means the cuts have to come from somewhere, and it's gotta be HQ because FA and HS are the core.

junk wrote:I figured that would be the first suggestion.

I've only used imotekh once, and I found him to be a waste of points;

I've ran him a couple of times, for the lulz, and he blew up several tanks in the early game with his Lord of the Storm rule. Or as I like to call them: mind bullets.

I will agree that you should not just throw him into an army though. If you build your list with him in mind, I think he can definitely be worth the points.

Played against Immo the other day, my buddy was wraiths and full scarab farm.

So the nightshields I had just put on all my vehicles were points well spent. Each raider was 80 points, Immo "mind shot" 5 of them in total. That's 400 points..

However, 2 squads of wyches and the Baron with hellions were enough for the scarabs with the hellions bringing in surrounding units to the multi combat to take advantage of the plethora of wounds the scarabs give away in combat.

Previous 2 games vrs a shooty cron list have been rough though.

Lukas has been using;
CC Lord in barge x 2
8 HOD Crypteks 2 pulses
4 NS with 5 immortals
10 Scarabs
3 AB
Roughly

First game I tried an experimental WWP list.
Baron
18 Hellions
Scourges x 5 w 2 Heat Lance, x 3
Ravager x 3
Raider with 7 wracks, shattershard Haem with portal
Raider with 3 wracks, liquefier haem and portal.
Wyches x 9, hek, ag

DOW, 2 obj, DE 1st turn.

Got a lovely setup on the first portal near his obj but safe enough it couldn't be blocked. Nec turn he brings all on and drops the troops from the NS to get shots at my Ravagers hiding at the back. Not a great move here. If I had got any cc units on turn 2 he was in for a multicharge to wipe his troops. Only 1 unit of Scourges comes in and suicides to kill a NS.
He realises the mistake and pulls back with the troops. Can still get a good multi charge but its more spread out now and will need to use the vehicles to link it.
Turn 3 all my stuff comes in and I giggle like a school girl. I get a good multicharge in with the hellions and wyches and also to the other side out of the other portal to clear the scarabs.
However, I explode a NS which has a 6" range and kills 9 hellions to ruin my combat res. Boo.
Game went badly after that. I really needed FNP on my units coming out of the portal, that hurt.

Second game Lukas uses the same list, I run wych cult

Wych x 9(8?), hek ag, raider FF x 2
Wych x 8(7?), hek ag, raider FF x 2
Haem w liquefier x 4
Blasterborn x 3, blaster x 3, raider FF x 3
Ravager w FF x 3

It's KP's but I have an aggresive list so not too worried. Manage to refuse flank and im thinking this is great! I line up a command barge with shooting redundancy for some vehicles behind with 20 or so dark light weapons in reasonable night sight range. The barge fails 1 save which is a WD that gets ignored. Sigh. Wyches then charge and flunk after having surrounded it. Boo!

Then he gets to shoot, I lose about 8 KP's that round. Turn 4 im looking at the score and its about 12-6. Hmmm. I get a good round in and bring the score back to 15-14 at the end of the game, necron win.

Analysis;
- scarabs are no problem for DE
- command barges are brutal AND a good fire magnet with the 4+ save (just have to make them), arm 13 and needing 6's to hit. Unless you are another barge. That arm 13 gives them the needed hyrdra protection.
- sweep attacks are good at reliably killing DE vehicles.
- tesla destructor is good at reliably killing DE vehicles.
- this game I had enough DL weapons to clear the necron vehicles. Have been struggling with more venoms.
- everything will get NS's. I believe the internet analysis of this is incorrect (if you can shoot at it, it can shoot at you etc, dark lance range, ML range etc), because its not the unit I am shooting that I am thinking about the range of, its the units I have refused that I want to lock out to help keep the combat where I want it with numerical superiority.

Monster Rain wrote:

junk wrote:I figured that would be the first suggestion.

I've only used imotekh once, and I found him to be a waste of points;

I've ran him a couple of times, for the lulz, and he blew up several tanks in the early game with his Lord of the Storm rule. Or as I like to call them: mind bullets.

I will agree that you should not just throw him into an army though. If you build your list with him in mind, I think he can definitely be worth the points.

100% agree with Monster Rain. Imotekh to me, really favors an army that either has a large assault element that wants to close, as this doesn't diminish our lost shooting capability. His Lightning Strikes can really do a number on a MSU list, but they are not to be relied on.

Cmac, Do you use Nightshields in all of your lists? I only ask this, because I've honestly never seen anyone in my area use them, and if they did so now against a Necron list, it would really seem like tailoring. I'm not saying you are doing that though.

Heh.

Well, when I came back into 5th ed, I started Eldar in Ireland, really enjoyed the mobility of the falcons with the t2 alpha harlie, yriel, eldrad multi charge. Due to the preference for plasma at the time over melta, the falcons where still almost invulnerable.

Then in china I started guard for a different type of army, initially aircav before a move to leaf blower finally power blob. The last one is fun but is cumbersome to setup, play, pack up, paint, assemble etc.

So wanted a new army, de had the speed and the punch. Perfect.

Plan pretty much every time is to work a flank and get percentages in the favour with the mobility. However, to get this to work requires making one of the sides of the opponents force redundant. What I have been finding is that without the night shields more of the stuff I want to deny a shot to can still shoot me. However, it comes with a cost when you factor in 10-11 of them needing it.

Problem is currently my 2 regular opponents in shanghai both play necrons now.. The last 10 games have been against crons... A different opponent would be nice. So maybe there is some tailoring that occurs when you see the additional casualties you take from the refused flank night scythes that can still move 12, drop cryptecs and slay paper planes that didn't need to die with ns on. Currently the de fleet is losing too much turn 2.

Turn 1-2, sweep over hard to one flank near the rear with everything, take long shots if possible. Turn 3 plan the alpha.

My concern is really the 6 gk dreads.

How does everyone feel in regards to the latest round of FAQ's concerning the play style of the Wraith Wing? With the rumours stating wave 2 is not far away I'm really thinking about running a wraith wing at a large tournament in April.

Anrakyr appears to have taken a hit in regards to not being able to use special wargear from vehicles fire points. Shooting from the hull of an open-topped vehicle being a 'fire-point' or not, is the counter argument.

Whip coils and mind-shackle scarabs have been confirmed to work as I have been playing them, so no big change there. However sweep attacks ignoring vehicle cover saves makes it an even more attractive option.

Have these changes got you guys revising your lists?

Really? You have been playing that GK halberds strike at I3. I think that hurts Wraithwing a lot. Now Anrakyr - I've been playing him with a VoD - so the barge rule doesn't bother me at all. It will still need a further FAQtjhough. Barges are open topped - no fire points. So I'm not sure he cannot use his special power.

I was playing Wraiths but now that VoD/Staff works with deathmarks and I can arrive and veil - well Deathmarks with a phaeron/orb and a Veilteq look pretty decent at the cost.

Sectiplave wrote:How does everyone feel in regards to the latest round of FAQ's concerning the play style of the Wraith Wing?

Anrakyr will be the only thing I'm changing. What a let down that ruling is. But the bright side: you can get a CCB Overlord with Warscythe/MSS/Weave and an extra Wraith or Lancetek for the cost of Anrakyr/CCB. Not a bad swap really, and it suits Wraithwing's style. The only thing I've disliked about Anrakyr is his weakness in assault, so I'm excited to throw a more CC-oriented Overlord into the mix. Not only can he support Wraiths held up against a hardened target, but he can also handle small units like Long Fangs alone.

felixcat wrote:Really? You have been playing that GK halberds strike at I3. I think that hurts Wraithwing a lot. Now Anrakyr - I've been playing him with a VoD - so the barge rule doesn't bother me at all. It will still need a further FAQtjhough. Barges are open topped - no fire points. So I'm not sure he cannot use his special power.

Yes I was playing it that it reduced Initiative to 1 and then any wargear was applied afterwards. I had some lengthy debates in regard to playing it this way, but it made sense in the end to run with it this way.

The argument about open topped vehicles is that the shot is not made from the model itself it is made from the hull of the vehicle, this could be interpreted as a "fire-point" but I'm sure this is being better discussed in the You Make Da Call forum sub-section.

I think all that changes for me is that I will probably drop Nemesor and run a generic overlord in CCB, ignoring vehicle smoke and cover saves etc. make sweep attacks just that little bit nastier. Also I think whip coils aren't to be spammed so I'm still running with 3 per squad of 6 as a cap.