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cmac wrote:DE 2000 points on the dot.

Vect w 9 wyches, hek, ag, raider no ff (I feel I don't need the ff here as I will either be going 24" or moving 12" and disembarking after which the raider has done its job.
9 wyches, hek, ag, raider no ff (as above)
Trueborn x 4, blasters x 4, venom +sc. x 3 (sorry)
Warriors x 5, blaster, venom +sc, x4
Ravager w ff x 3

Yes, its a list. The point is as a WW player (maybe Shotgunfacelift can post his list), what would you do against this?

Like last time it will be asking, how many of those blasted venoms do you have again?

The new version involves as much tesla as I Can possibly fit in without cutting myself too thin. I'm still not sold on the pure msu format with min 5 man squads. The little guys just die too easy, especially when staring at 1 or more likely 5 venoms.

Jury is still out on whether or not I will keep going the route of the cryptek, I lik their shooting attacks but can't really think of the time that they have saved my metallic bacon.

Anyways tactics for tommorrow, Try to stay in the 20 to 24" sweet spot and keep blasting away.

List (from damaged short term memory)

Lord with warscythe in ccb
Lord with warscythe in ccb

6 x hod with 2 x pulse ( 2 in each troop unit)

2 x 5 man wraith squads (3 x whip, 2 x pistol)

2 x 6 man warrior units in NS

8 man immortal squad in NS

3 x annihilation barges

Considering I forgot to play the lord in ccb last time cmac and i hit the table we will see how it goes. Take 2nd, hide on the edge and hope he can't see me, and then hit the closest side with everything I got

For me the NS has built in benefits and problems concerning it's portal ability.

In Annihilation I think the fact that they enter reserves has a pro that the contents can't be assaulted if their ride is popped and actually take no damage and are safely placed in reserve. Last turn this could be brutal though, so they need to be disembarked or you provide an easy way to get to birds with one stone.

In C&C and Seize Ground I am still battling with the NS because it is a super sonic flyer with a decent weapon but again, if you flat out to grab objectives you can't disembark so if it is shot down, your troops enter reserve instead of the battlefield and thus you lost that objective.

So it is interesting because we have the first super sonic transport, but it has some glaring drawbacks concerning the way its portal works. Interested in how these play out in your first game with them.

Bit the same situation here, it sounds like such a great combination of speed perks and includes a high utility heavy weapon, but all I seem to be using it for at this point is another annihilation barge with av11.
In the last game I played I use them as an attempted countercharge unit, in reserves coming in on turn two and three. Both came in dropped off their cargo and both shot into the sides and rear of a unit past the mid field. Which worked well.
But I Didn't have the chance to play the portal trick as the immortals got charged before they could embark into the night scythe.

So had a long hard think last night and this morning. As I said before the more I think about the Night Scythes the more I like them so finding spots for them seems natural. The 2 things that really irks me though are:

1. no 2nd pulse. While it's not as necessary vs DE since their mobility just ridiculous in other match ups that 2nd turn could prove really beneficial.

2. unreliability (even with the scarabs) vs multiple high all round AV. 1 Overlord on a CC Barge just doesn't cut it for me.

So I came up with a new list that helps to mitigate this even more:

Overlord
Warscythe
CC Barge

Royal Court 1
HoD Cryptek w/ Pulse

Overlord
Warscythe
CC Barge

Royal Court 2
HoD Cryptek w/ Pulse

5x Immortals
Tesla/Gauss??
Night Scythe

5x Immortals
Tesla/ Gauss??
Night Scythe

5x Warriors
Night Scythe

10x Scarabs

5x Wraiths
2x Whip Coils
1x Whip Coils +Particle caster (if this is allowed)
1x Particle Caster

5x Wraiths
3x Whip Coils
1x Particle Caster

Annihilation Barge
Annihilation Barge
Annihilation Barge

Let me know what you guys think.

Oh and Junk for your game just go full reserve. Allow him to drop half his army turn 1 and hit a flank when you come on. And if you go 2nd then you get to see if even more stuff comes on. If he bunches up then your tesla destructors are going to be a lot of fun that game. Cmac's analysis is pretty solid and I don't think there is much more to add.

ShotgunFacelift wrote:Bit the same situation here, it sounds like such a great combination of speed perks and includes a high utility heavy weapon, but all I seem to be using it for at this point is another annihilation barge with av11.
In the last game I played I use them as an attempted countercharge unit, in reserves coming in on turn two and three. Both came in dropped off their cargo and both shot into the sides and rear of a unit past the mid field. Which worked well.
But I Didn't have the chance to play the portal trick as the immortals got charged before they could embark into the night scythe.

That's good you used them to a decent effect though. I just am trying to figure out if they are worth the points because I think their best roll really is as an additional fire support unit and I am not sure if they have the lasting power. I am wondering now how a single unit of tomb blades with the particle beamer upgrade would work. It's 150 points for five of these and they provide 5 str 6 blast support which would wreak havoc against light vehicles and hoards not to mention scarab farm lists.

I think if NS are used then the list really does benefit from a single monolith to bring units back from reserve and into the fray. I also think it would provide a great screen for the NS so pulses don't have to be used 1st turn.

Recap from yesterdays Game.......

Ma List:
-Lord in CCB with Gauntlet o Fire & Warscythe
HOD with Pulse
-Lord in CCB with Gauntlet o Fire & Warscythe
HOD with Pulse

6 x Wraith
- 3 x WC
- 2 x Pistols

6 x Wraith
- 3 x WC
- 2 x Pistols

6 x Scarabs

5 x Warriors
NS

5 x Warriors
NS

5 x Warriors
NS

5 x Warriors
NS

Annihilation Barge
Annihilation Barge
Annihilation Barge

Game
-Spearhead deployment
- 5 x Objectives

Result:
DE: Victory
2 Obj Held
1 x Contested

Crons:
1 Obj Held
1 x Contested

End on Turn 5 (might have gone to 6 but store was closing)

General Summary:
- Nightfight limited effect of DE Shooting for 2 turns, which I could have capitalized on better but could be used to great effect
- 1 x Barge lord had a great time tying up the Duke his wyche retinue and a unit of blaster borne for 2 turns, and got back up 2 x times before the end
- The extra Tesla Destructors on the NS were very usefull in terms of additional fire support, and they drew alot of fire away from the Annihilation barges
- NS movement could be put to great use jumping around the board but one must be carefull with the timing of dropping off their cargo
- Min squads of warriors are..........I hesitate to say useless, but their effect on the game was to almost glance a venom. Granted their function is to take objectives but I feel theyre too fragile to really be anywhere near places where fighting is going on.
- Despite the amount of Tesla on the field I found it necessary to really focus 3+ units of Tesla Dest. on one unit or group of units to really get the job done. They seem really good at mauling things, but have difficulty outrihg killing stuff off.

VenomSpam sucks to play against as the entire army can redeploy quickly to avoid the 24" sweet spot, and the number of scoring units makes Objective based games like this difficult. But I lasted significantly longer than the last time playing against Cmac, and think this WW version is quite viable vs such a list as I can use the NS speed to quickly redeploy and move to contest. However there are issues with staying power as a single turn of good enemy shooting can ground your mobile forces or hose down any poor warriors who are on the table.

MVP of the game is the one barge lord taking on the duke and readying him to get ID'd by a Tesla dest. shot. The flat out movement and threat range of the barge lords can be used to good affect and is something I'm going to work on Going forward.

Playing against a less mobile opponent I feel the wraiths would have had a better chance to get stuck in, but in this game they only really played a part near the end when trying to clear off the central objective.

More detailed report to come, and picts of T1, T2, T3

Shogun, you can't take a Gauntlet of fire, and a Warscythe on the Same Overlord.

Sasori wrote:Shogun, you can't take a Gauntlet of fire, and a Warscythe on the Same Overlord.

Thats unfortunate.......
now where do i put those 5 points?

ShotgunFacelift wrote:

Sasori wrote:Shogun, you can't take a Gauntlet of fire, and a Warscythe on the Same Overlord.

Thats unfortunate.......
now where do i put those 5 points?

Well, if you want to keep your current list the same, You could put another Particle Caster on each squad of Wraiths, since those are both 5 points each.

Do you mind posting your opponents list? It seems like you should have done very well. Each Tesla Destructor should be downing a Dark Eldar Vehicle.

Looking forward to rest of your batrep!

Well, I can post the list

Vect
Wyches x 9, hek, ag in Raider

Haem w Liquefier
Wyches x 9, hek, ag in raider
Trueborn w 4 blasters in venom +sc, x 3
Warriors x 5, blaster, venom + sc x 2
Wrack x 3, venom +sc x 2
Ravager w ff, x 3

Spearhead deployment with shotgunfacelift hiding in the far far corner. First 2 turns I decided to dance around at 24-30 taking shots at the closest units (wraiths and scarabs) while keeping all the boys/girls inside the vehicles to mitigate tesla arcing until I can get the alpha in on the vehicles. I wouldn't have been able to do my turn 1 alpha on his list without exposing my squishy stuff to wraith/scarab counter attack unit this had been negated. We both zoomed around a bit trying to refuse flank under the darkness (well me anyway) until the game began in earnest. I think currently I might be a bit "too" wary of the wraiths. With concentrated fire on them , it does limit their effectiveness when they get to 2-3 wraiths left and then they don't have to numbers to get the multicharge in I am fearful of. Maybe a t1 alpha is back on and just accept the counter attack pain then clear next turn.

In practice, an Annihilation Barge shot isn't ruining a venoms day as maybe it should on paper, between needing to hit (yes 6's are good), penetrate (3 glance 4 to pen) with the ff save it isn't as horrible as I originally thought. Maybe he was unlucky.

Shotgunfacelift can do the bat rep, but keeping with the theme of the thread ill just break down how I saw the units in the list running.

CC lords in barges - pretty cool. Once the Lord is out of the barge, he is easy enough to smack down with higher I pw attacks (vect had his number). That EL rule is great and will win/draw games, a res orb may not be a bad investment here. Getting the 4+ cover save while getting close absorbed a lot of fire (he made every save from a bunch of dark lances) which wasn't going elsewhere. These are solid, would like to see the D Lord in action again but the 2 turns of NF given by the cyrptecs, while not being a real dampener for me with night vision (24-27" is reasonably reliable, with wraiths pushing forward I can make that 18.1-24" comfortably), did mean I didn't drop down and alpha strike until turn 3 (when 700 points go fried..). However with late turn NS supersonic action (its a 4+ I think Elliot not a 3+) and a proliferation of targets for me (yes im being hypocritical), it was tough to table you by turn 5. This would cause me trouble in KP's and you could ninja a win, maybe I would be more aggressive earlier. He got to snipe an agoniser which was cute.

Question (yes should really go in rules) : a Lord using EL, can he move through my models, or come within 1", that are blocking if there is a space beyond that in the 3" circle?

Cyrptecs - still not a huge fan but the 2 turns of NF may be a "must have" in this list for all-comers. Gives a bit of punch to the squads that get dropped off on objectives.

Night Scythes – in his shooting phase, it was like he had 7 annihilation barges for all intents and purposes. Except these were a bigger threat as the effective range is 36”. Also with the spam of these and the supersonic you can be very annoying. For example if one fails the shaken LM roll or a wd, you get to super boost to a tactically better position for objective shenanigans, gain a 4+ to soak some shooting and then maybe fire from a better position the following turn. Yes, the armour is weaker however no OT has pros and cons.

Warriors – I think they are fine. MSU is MSU. Its like a unit of 5 dire avengers in a WS. Cheap and to the point. While 5 won’t do much, you get a mini alpha with 4 squads of these focusing fire if you are safe from counter assault the subsequent turn.

Wraiths – fine but with “only” an 18” threat range, they aren’t getting where they are needed before they are crippled. Not having a 2+ is a bit of a downer ;-P. I think the delivery system is the problem. They may be a “run interference” unit.

Scarabs – the weakest threat on the table to be honest. Not sure you need them. Maybe 2 elite slots is enough.

Annihilation Barges – Ok, they are fine. However, with 4 of these in dedicated transport slots, im not sure they are a given in this list.

Potential changes

Take 2 monoliths.
They need to be carefully managed, but against me for example, a couple deepstriking behind my lines with the threat of pulling the wraiths behind me to sandwich my force between them and the tesla may work. If I don’t get them down, im in trouble. They also have some nice weaponry. This needs to be bashed out tactically against different builds.

Tomb Spiders – I believe these can fix vehicles? Maybe support the liths and provide some counter attack potential and maybe buffing scarabs if these are used. Mainly for the liths though. Whether to start on the board or deepstrike is situational.

Regarding the deployment against the DP army, I personally really dislike full reserve as its got a bit of a “pussy” inference. The phalanx allows you to fully deploy, whether 1st or 2nd turn, and mitigate some of the damage. Then punch back strongly and clear the area.

Sounds like a good game. I'd like to see how that played out.
7 Tesla Destructors! I would have expected that to do better; but after just running 4 myself, I had a hard time getting them to be as effective as they promise to be; then again, I think I may have forgotten twin link on a few turns.

I'm not sure how much I trust Monoliths, the giant footprint combined with their short shooting range makes them mishappy,

I think the 18" threat on wraiths is good enough considering how they can ignore terrain, of course they'd be even better with fleet; but I've found them to be insanely resilient with 2W and 3++. The more shots aimed at them, the better for my vehicles, and vice versa.

I got lucky against the DP list, as I was able to force him to go first, and he underestimated the assault potential of the WW, deploying against my board edge to corral my deployment. Between the scarabs, the wraiths, the D.lord, the 10 furious charge eternals, and Anrakyr on a barge, It was kind of a bloodbath. There will be a rematch at 2000 points in the next few days.

After seeing JY2 combine WW and Spyder/scarab farm, I'm not sure which one of us has it right. More testing!

That DE list is pretty scary. Re: Your EL question, I'm not sure what you mean, can you rephrase it?

Well, I will try. I'm looking at the best method of taking the ever living potential away from annoying lords. I don't have the codex so am unsure of the exact wording but last night we were in a bit of a rush and weren't too sure.

If I surround the lord with vehicles before shooting him to death, I figure he can just come back in the same spot. No block. If I shoot him to death then run a unit to cover his death spot and the surrounding 3", I block and he dies. If I charge him and consolidate well, I block him and he dies.

However, if I charge, kill him then block completely 270 degrees around his counter spot, and I have models that block the path to the 90 degrees but he could fit in the far 3" but would have to "move" though models I have that are blocking then can he do it.

Essentially, I'm checking if the rules say "when he dies, place a counter on the spot. Then if he makes his roll, place him anywhere within 3" of that counter (is that fully in or part of the base touching 3") where he is 1" away from enemy models. That seems to make sense to me, therefore one of shotgunface's lords probably could have found a spot to come back.

Was trying to use 2 wyches, a venom and Vect to block his return. If that doesn't make sense, shotgunfacelift may be able to explain better.

If you cover a 3 inch zone around the counter so it's impossible to legally place the model, the counter is removed, but if there' anywhere within a 3 inch radius that he can stand up and not be within 1" of an enemy model, he can return.

Hmm, I foresee calipers being required in tournaments

I'm starting to play wraithwing myself, however, I play a slightly different version than the ones posted here. Rather than running annihilation barges and night scythes, I run MSU-warrior units with 2x6 wraiths and an 8-spyder scarab-farm. At 2K, my list looks like this (I'm still experimenting so you'll see some changes between battle reports):

2K Necrons (My list)

Necron Overlord - Mindshackle Scarabs, Phase Shifter, Warscythe, Weave
Catacomb Command Barge
4x Crypteks - 4x Harbingers of Destruction, 1x Solar Pulse

Destroyer Lord - Mindshackle Scarabs, Warscythe, Weave

5x Warriors
5x Warriors
5x Warriors
5x Warriors
5x Warriors

10x Canoptek Scarabs
6x Canoptek Wraiths -3x Whip Coils, 1x Particle Blaster
6x Canoptek Wraiths -3x Whip Coils, 1x Particle Blaster

2x Canoptek Spyders - Claw Array
3x Canoptek Spyders - Claw Array, Gloom Prism
3x Canoptek Spyders - Claw Array, Gloom Prism


So far, I've only played 2 games with them, one against Chaos and the other against Blood Angels, but I think they complement each other well.

It is an odd list in that it is a very un-necron-like army. Necrons are supposed to be a very good mid-range shooting army. My army is anything but good in shooting. As a matter of fact, my necron army exploits what is possibly necron's biggest weakness - assault. I2 and lack of power weapons...why is my list able to engage the enemy in close combat and still survive? One word....fearlessness. That's right. My army, or most of it at least, can't be swept.

Now why is this army so dangerous, this army with hardly any shooting? Because of what I like to coin as:

Maximum Threat Overload

It's one thing when you have to deal with 1 or 2 main threats at a time. It's something else when you have to deal with 4 - 2 wraith units, scarabs and command barge. My final competitive list will actually have 5 main threats as I will eventually swap out my Destroyer Lord for another Overlord on command barge. But the main thing is that all these threats are really, really fast. I'm talking about guaranteed in-your-face assault on turn 2 and maybe even on turn 1 with the scarabs. The name of the game is to apply a lot of pressure on the opponent and force him to play defensively, which is what I am banking on. If he does so, I have a huge advantage in objectives-based games as I will gain the positional advantage (another phrase I like to coin as Positional Dominance). If not, then it will be an interesting battle.

Jy2! Glad to have your input in here! I was hoping you'd drop in. We've talked about how the WW poses a lot of big threats, and I agree it's definitely a major strength of the list.

As we've talked about, I'm a proponent of more shooting (2xNS, 2xA.Barge) and 20 immortals over 25 warriors. But you're killing it with that list right now, so, obviously, your approach is working pretty damn well.


Alright WW Fans - not a full batrep, but a quick summary with a few lessons I've learned -

I just got into a bare-knuckle brawl with a 2000 point BA army using my 1850 WW, to make up for the deficiency I stuck 3 naked spiders in the list, inspired by Jy2's approach.

A couple of qualifiers first. The BA list wasn't a top list, and the player wasn't a regular BA player; it was a strange mix of units, lots of models pretending to be BA. I didn't think it would be a real fight, so I didn't keep notes.

The scarabs performed incredibly well, stripping armor off a few units including some ICs, and tar-pitting their share of units. 1 squad of wraiths with the destroyer lord tied up mephiston's squad for a few critical early rounds, while the other wraith unit managed to break 4 assault squads, after tesla destructor fire softened them. It was unreal.

Anrakyr took over the storm raven, laying down a ton of wounds and outright killing a number of models - then he assaulted and wrecked it. It was the first time I've really gotten to flex Anrakyr and I loved it!

By the end of the game, I still had Anrakyr (thanks to ever-living), both A. barges, 1 night scythe and 3 wraiths, and the BA were tabled. Two things decided this battle; 1 my opponent had a less than optimum list; and 2 I got insanely lucky, consistently rolling many 6s when it counted, between rending and tesla shooting. Mephiston is a terrifying monster, and had it not been for some great Wraith-saves and poor leadership rolls on his part, the battle wouldn't have gone nearly as well for me.

My opponent also failed some critical morale saves and allowed me to escort a number of his units off the board. Regardless, what I learned is this:

1. Mindshackle scarabs are incredible. The destroyer lord with mindshackle scarabs has paid off every time i've used him, his mobility lets you get those shackles where they need to be, and if they don't work, he can still murder, especially with well placed whip coils.

2. More whip coils, minimum 3 per squad, IMO, though I'm thinking about upping it to 4. With three in there, a few attacks are going to get around them, but you can really stop the important guys. With 4, they can shut down a 10 man squad.

3. The configuration i've been using for troops is 2x5 Gauss immortals + 1 lance-tek per squad; and 1x10 Tesla Eternals. The Teslaternals foot slog and the two small squads take scythes. I've found the mixture to be good enough and I haven't wanted to change either yet. If anything, I'd want to add a 3rd Night Scythe; they're just really handy, but also big targets. So having 3 is kind of great, I'd have to lose an annihilation barge and my particle casters to do it.

4. Anrakyr in a CCB is a beast; His mind-control is cute, but I find the only real reason to take him is to buff those immortals, and through that prism I don't know if he's worth it. I'm keeping him for now, but I think he'll end up getting cut down the road for a regular scythelord (possibly with scarabs). I'm still too attached to the 1 pulse-tek to consider swapping him out for a D.Lord at this point.

5. Scarabs and Spyders. I love scarabs, but I'm still attached to the annihilation barges. 2 Night Scythes and 2 barges, backed up by even 1 spyder with a fabricator array seems like a good idea, if only to get that extra 2.5 inch reach on the scarab rush. If I turn anrakyr into a regular overlord, I can afford it.

6. This game I was able to keep my barges stationary almost the whole game and fire all weapons; the Twin Linked TD's consistently laid 4-6 wounds down and the Gauss Cannons usually got 1 more in there. Against an army with lots of FNP Infantry, all those saves started tipping in my direction and models would drop. I'm okay with swapping a barge for a scythe, but at the moment, I think I want to keep the pair of them.

Okay, I'm gonna try testing out my WraithWing build tomorrow against an IG player. He typically runs a gunline centered around keeping his Basilisks safe and forcing me to face down a bunch of tanks. I'm trying to work on a TAC list, but this will be my first battle with it. This is the list I'm running, I'll post up after-action thoughts afterwards. Opinions?



I'm contemplating getting rid of the scarabs in favour of more Wraiths, in which case I'll probably remove the Spyders as well. Basic idea is to stick the HoD Court into the Ghost Ark, have the Phaeron Warriors walk forward with the Ark to hunt down objectives/kill things. Second squad of warriors sits back on an objective near my deployment. Wraiths and Scarabs all move up close to try and get in CC. If he focuses too much on the Wraiths, the Scarabs will eat his armour. If he focuses too much on the Scarabs, the Wraiths will eat his troops (last game we played a single squad of 6 wraiths ate half his army without breaking a sweat). Annihilation Barges are there mainly to blow open transports and some additional anti-infantry fire.

Dytalus,
I'm a big fan of scarabs and spyders in general, but I don't thing they belong in the Wraith Wing army for only one reason: Multi-assaulting the scarabs and wraiths can go really poorly if any power or force weapons don't get whipcoiled.

Ah...I hadn't considered that. Like I said, Scarabs + Spyders weren't a dead certain include for my list, since I can use the D. Lord to knock out anything with AV14 (assuming he lives long enough). So with the Scarabs and Spyders gone, I've thrown in two extra wraiths into each squad meaning 3 whip coils, 1 caster and 2 regulars for each squad. Leaves me with 115 points to spare, which I'm still trying to figure out what it should go on.

And since I herp'd and didn't mention it, points limit is 1750.

I'm having a bit of trouble finding good anti-AV14 options for a Wraith Wing. Rending is great and all, but it's still difficult to destroy an AV14 tank (which, realistically is only the Land Raider and Monolith) with.

Anpu-adom wrote:Dytalus,
I'm a big fan of scarabs and spyders in general, but I don't thing they belong in the Wraith Wing army for only one reason: Multi-assaulting the scarabs and wraiths can go really poorly if any power or force weapons don't get whipcoiled.

Theres also a big risk of transferring fearless saves from the scarab combat into the wraith unit if they get multi-charged.
I found that out in my first game with crons with a wych unit multi-charge my scarabs and wraiths. The Wraiths did their job great, but then got slapped with something like 12 fearless saves thanks to the scarabs taking it in the teeth.

I'm still on the fence with scarabs, building a farm takes up too many points and HS Slots, but throwing 1 unit in just for target saturation and general utility against armor sounds good on paper. Each time I've played them they have drawn alot of fire from the wraiths, but I'm still not sure whether to make them a regular feature in the WW list.

The biggest trouble I'm running into is getting the wraiths where they are supposed to go without losing too many to incoming fire. As everyone knows what they do, and that its the only real cc threat (other than the lord(S)) in the army they tend to fixate on knocking them down before they get where I want em. As they take up such a large chunk of points I'm debating giving them a delivery method.

Which points to deep striking monoliths in the mid field (or in their deployment zone if feeling lucky). As Cmac mentioned this could be used to sandwich enemy forceces between the wraiths or the liths and could also be used to move units around the field at will.
(though personally I believe his suggestion was a subtle ruse to guarantee he gets to put all those dark lances to good use)

But then I have the following questions:
1. Does this make nemesor a more viable HQ choice as we can then bring the lith down in the opponents turn, and then re-deploy the wraiths and charge in my turn? (if the opponent reserves anything)
2. Can I charge the Wraiths out of the dimensional gateway?
3. Can I charge scarabs out of the gateway?
(which would be uber , but would be awesome)

Thoughts on a Lith Heavy 2k WW List:

HQ: 385
- Overlord + Gauntlet + Warscythe + CCB
-- HOD Cryptek w/ Pulse

- Dlord + Shackles

FAST: 430
- 5 x Wraith
-- 3 x WC
-- 2 x Pistol

- 5 x Wraith
-- 3 x WC
-- 2 x Pistol

Troop: 660
4 x 5man Warrior Squads
4 x NS

Heavy: 400
2 x Monolith

This leaves 125 points to spare which I'm unsure about where to place.
a. I could add a Abarge and spend 25 points on upgrades for the lords
b. I could replace the destroyer lord with a CCB Lord and add 35 points of upgrades elsewhere
The 2 x CCB combo could be usefull as they can either team up on things (6 x Swoop Attacks) or act as line breakers for the wraiths
c. Get an 8 Man unit of Scarabs
If yes to Q3, then this might be the route to go
d. up the numbers on the warrior squads or replace them with immortals
e. Throw in some deathmarks?
Hmmmm, could be interesting and make the army less repetitive
f. Run some heavy destroyers for ranged shooting

Here's my 1850 list for wraiths wing.

1 overlord c/w MSS & warscythe on CCB x 2
4 HOD + 1 SP x 2

5 x deathmarks

7 x gauss immortals
5 x tesla immortals
5 x tesla immortals

5 x wraiths, 2 coils + caster x 3

3 x annihilation barges

Treat the HOD's like long fangs stick them in cover then shoot, SP repeat. May replace death marks with with NS for speed and more tesla lovin.

jy2 wrote:I'm starting to play wraithwing myself, however, I play a slightly different version than the ones posted here. Rather than running annihilation barges and night scythes, I run MSU-warrior units with 2x6 wraiths and an 8-spyder scarab-farm. At 2K, my list looks like this (I'm still experimenting so you'll see some changes between battle reports):

2K Necrons (My list)

Necron Overlord - Mindshackle Scarabs, Phase Shifter, Warscythe, Weave
Catacomb Command Barge
4x Crypteks - 4x Harbingers of Destruction, 1x Solar Pulse

Destroyer Lord - Mindshackle Scarabs, Warscythe, Weave

5x Warriors
5x Warriors
5x Warriors
5x Warriors
5x Warriors

10x Canoptek Scarabs
6x Canoptek Wraiths -3x Whip Coils, 1x Particle Blaster
6x Canoptek Wraiths -3x Whip Coils, 1x Particle Blaster

2x Canoptek Spyders - Claw Array
3x Canoptek Spyders - Claw Array, Gloom Prism
3x Canoptek Spyders - Claw Array, Gloom Prism


So far, I've only played 2 games with them, one against Chaos and the other against Blood Angels, but I think they complement each other well.

It is an odd list in that it is a very un-necron-like army. Necrons are supposed to be a very good mid-range shooting army. My army is anything but good in shooting. As a matter of fact, my necron army exploits what is possibly necron's biggest weakness - assault. I2 and lack of power weapons...why is my list able to engage the enemy in close combat and still survive? One word....fearlessness. That's right. My army, or most of it at least, can't be swept.

Now why is this army so dangerous, this army with hardly any shooting? Because of what I like to coin as:

Maximum Threat Overload

It's one thing when you have to deal with 1 or 2 main threats at a time. It's something else when you have to deal with 4 - 2 wraith units, scarabs and command barge. My final competitive list will actually have 5 main threats as I will eventually swap out my Destroyer Lord for another Overlord on command barge. But the main thing is that all these threats are really, really fast. I'm talking about guaranteed in-your-face assault on turn 2 and maybe even on turn 1 with the scarabs. The name of the game is to apply a lot of pressure on the opponent and force him to play defensively, which is what I am banking on. If he does so, I have a huge advantage in objectives-based games as I will gain the positional advantage (another phrase I like to coin as Positional Dominance). If not, then it will be an interesting battle.

HQ
-----
Nemesor - 185 pts
4x Crypteks - 4x HOD (1x Pulse) - 160 pts
1x Necron lord - scarabs, scythe, labrynth - 80 pts
D-Lord - Scythe, Scarabs, Weave - 160 pts

Troops
----------
5x Warriors - 65 pts
5x Warriors - 65 pts
5x Warriors - 65 pts
5x Warriors - 65 pts
5x Immortals - Tesla - 85 pts

Fast Attack
----------------
10x Scarabs - 150 pts
5x Wraiths - 3x Coils, 1x Pistol - 210 pts
5x Wraiths - 3x Coils, 1x Pistol - 210 pts

Heavy Support
---------------------
3x Spyders - 1x gloom - 165 pts
3x Spyders - 1x gloom - 165 pts

Total: 1830 pts

Basically my version of your list Jy from my playtest games ( seen Crons vs Stormravens and Crons vs Daemons and Crons vs DoA Angels) and learning what works where. I'm a HUGE fan of nemesor; hes got great utility and makes a unit very survivable with his orb and ability to soak up wounds (I liken him to Draigo for Paladins). Not to mention his ability to give a unit what it needs when it needs it, while taking away some key abilities from your foes (stealing Furious Charge from angels is always fun!) D-Lords are too beastly and are a steal for their points. I'm also playing with a lord escorting Nemesor as this deters people from assaulting him (his one huge weakness). On top of it all, I have the Teks to throw down. I figure in games where a block of Teks would work better, nemesor will escort them to give them the 4+ RP and soak wounds, while other games the Teks will split up and throw down to take Rhinos, Raiders, etc.

I've found in my games that Wraiths are essential to the livelyhood of a good TAC 'Cron list. They are a great counterassault unit, and also great at aggressive play punching people in the head. I've also learned multiple units of Scarabs is more a hindrance than one large unit. I'm also highly unimpressed by Annihilation Barges, they have a possibility of throwing down some hurt on infantry, but thats about it. Spyders are more well rounded, spawning scarabs, and being a solid threat to tanks and infantry. They are also very hard to move, especially wound allocated.

So I got a game in yesterday vs a list of Cmacs (mine is my first post of this page). The points value was reduced to 1850 so his list was slightly different, but still extremely competitive.

Some of the things I found:

- TL tesla destructors can be brutal. They aren't always since you really need a 6 to get decent results, but vs AV10 and T3 even arcing can cause serious damage. I believe this is 1 of the reasons ShotgunFacelift got such little mileage from them (he didn't play them as twin-linked).

- Wraiths drew a lot of fire that possibly would otherwise have been directed vs my weaker Troops. I made a lot of saves but equally I was pushing them out with my Troops further back. If he wanted to hit them he would have had to have weathered a lot more Tesla much earlier than he did. One unit drew the fire, the other got to do some serious damage. Managed to get in a brutal multicharge with Scarabs into 3 venoms and 2 units of Trueborn. Really wanted to stay locked and not get shot up by being out in the open next turn so I directed most of my attacks vs the vehicles but no...an exploding venom took out 4 of the 7 Trueborn. Thus the Wraiths died the next turn, but took a lot of firepower off the table in return.

- Vs DE you really can't spread out too much. I made the same mistake last time but figured with the added manoeuvrability of the Night Scythes it would be less of a problem. I was wrong. You really need to pack your guys up so you can advance as a phalanx and hit back hard. I had guys way over the other side doing nothing for 3 turns.

In the end it was actually a pretty close game. One of the biggest things that happened on Turn 3 was 2 units of lances being out of night fight range and then completely fluffing with 2 ravagers. This allowed me to hit back hard on turn 4 with the undamaged (and out of range till this point) Annihilation Barges as well as a Night Scythe that really should have been knocked out. Once that happened the game evened up again with us just taking blows to the chin and lining up again to do it next turn.

In the end he had 1 objective and mine was contested by a damned Venom. By all rights his Venom should not have been there...It got charged by an Overlord with Warscythe hitting on 4's. All missed. I could have played for a possible draw but I figured we would get a turn 6 and wanted to play for a Turn 6 or 7 victory but got stumped when the game ended on Turn 5. I believe (though Cmac can correct me if I'm wrong) that the Venom that went to contest was the only mobile vehicle left on the table. But anyways...that's just dice. Next time Cmac, next time!!!

I also have to say that something I am thinking of playtesting is a list without Wraiths. Now that should really be off the subject of discussion in this thread but I really want to try a list where I have more high strength long ranged guns on the table. Essentially I want to free up some of the Tesla to go after infantry. Namely I will be adding a unit of Immortals with Night Scythe, upgrading my current unit of Warriors to Immortals and giving each unit of Troops 2 HoD Crypteks. This also solves a current problem with the list...Draigowing. Majority strength 7 throughout the list is nice, but adding in some S8 punch is better. I will be losing a lot of cc punch (what am I saying...I'm losing all of it) but equally I go full MSU with a lot of mobility and some serious firepower.

So Lukus, you are abandoning the wraith wing! That's at least a very solid piece of feedback about the list. Necrons are definitely a shooting army, so wanting to capitalize on that is totally a respectable decision. I'd like it if you continued to post your results with a non-wraith list so we can all compare experiences.

I've been having a lot of luck with the wraiths in the last few games i've played (got an incomplete, moral victory against a melta-spam vulkan list today) but I'm afraid that it's all just been luck so far... the dice have been falling my way a lot lately; passing more than my statistical expectation of 3++ saves.

So far I've put up nothing but Ws in the last 4 days against nearly every flavor of space marines, even tabling 2; The ork fight I had scheduled got rain-checked. This weekend I'm up against a very weird inquisition army, and i'm trying to get a 'nid fight soon.

So far I've turned around on the Tesla destructors - but preferring night scythes to annihilation barges. I can't wait for those models to come out, all my conversion attempts have been abysmal and I've been running 'counts as' with devilfish or chimeras, depending on my opponent's preference (they always choose the devilfish)

I think my other armies are getting jealous of the attention my necrons have been getting; played my old stand by CSM list last night and I got my face slaughtered by the same drop pod army I wiped off the table with my wraith wing.

I played WW against Dark Angels yesterday. Wraiths destroyed everything that came their way when combined with a Destroyer Lord. Even though (for some reason which escapes me) I deep striked a unit of them which ended up doing nothing all game, the other unit laid claim to a squad of Assault Marines, a Company Commander and half a tactical squad by the end of turn 3. And that was with the lucky bastid passing all the Ld checks for MSS. The amount of heavy weapons fire they soaked up was amazing, and helped me win the game without a doubt.

Annihilation Barges are worth every point, and I can't wait to get some Night Scythes to test them out. Tesla Destructors are deliciously powerful. Between two Barges I averaged about 6 hits per round of shooting from each thanks to re rolling misses.

I'm hoping to get a Guard game up between now and New Year, so I'll report back then.

It seems evident that wraiths are clearly well worth their points in any list just for the sake of how much fire they draw AND survive through. It is also starting to seem like spamming as many tesla destruction as possible is the way to go.

I see the scarab farm doing well also but I think they both match up very differently. I still think that against a keen opponent scarabs won't help the wraiths as well as having another unit of wraiths as others have pointed out they just give an opponent an easy out in assault do to fearless saves. They also require or at least should have spyders which soak up your slots.

I also have a question for those who have used the scarabs with the WW, how do you find their mobility? I mean I know they are fast but they are also beasts now which means they can't jump over a smart screen like the wraiths can. I just feel like a smart bubble wrap unit would also stagger your assault. Food for thought.

Red Corsair wrote:It seems evident that wraiths are clearly well worth their points in any list just for the sake of how much fire they draw AND survive through. It is also starting to seem like spamming as many tesla destruction as possible is the way to go.

I see the scarab farm doing well also but I think they both match up very differently. I still think that against a keen opponent scarabs won't help the wraiths as well as having another unit of wraiths as others have pointed out they just give an opponent an easy out in assault do to fearless saves. They also require or at least should have spyders which soak up your slots.

I also have a question for those who have used the scarabs with the WW, how do you find their mobility? I mean I know they are fast but they are also beasts now which means they can't jump over a smart screen like the wraiths can. I just feel like a smart bubble wrap unit would also stagger your assault. Food for thought.

Actually Scarabs work very well with Wraiths when used properly; they either string out and wreck a bunch of vehicles, soak up fire that would be otherwise pointed at your wraiths (and typically you will have 18+ scarab bases by the time your opponent starts on them), or can tie up vital units that you don't want shooting at you (IG heavy teams, Longfangs, Broadsides, crisis suits, etc.). The biggest bonus is you can still spawn while they're locked in CC. Not to mention the fact that Spyders themselves are to be reckoned with both in CC and survivability. Wraiths mesh well with them, backing up assaults, or killing what spills out. Scarabs are FAR more reliable in popping vehicles than Destructors in my experience. Combined with Nemesor, 20+ furious charging scarab bases will work over most things.

Zid wrote:

Red Corsair wrote:It seems evident that wraiths are clearly well worth their points in any list just for the sake of how much fire they draw AND survive through. It is also starting to seem like spamming as many tesla destruction as possible is the way to go.

I see the scarab farm doing well also but I think they both match up very differently. I still think that against a keen opponent scarabs won't help the wraiths as well as having another unit of wraiths as others have pointed out they just give an opponent an easy out in assault do to fearless saves. They also require or at least should have spyders which soak up your slots.

I also have a question for those who have used the scarabs with the WW, how do you find their mobility? I mean I know they are fast but they are also beasts now which means they can't jump over a smart screen like the wraiths can. I just feel like a smart bubble wrap unit would also stagger your assault. Food for thought.

Actually Scarabs work very well with Wraiths when used properly; they either string out and wreck a bunch of vehicles, soak up fire that would be otherwise pointed at your wraiths (and typically you will have 18+ scarab bases by the time your opponent starts on them), or can tie up vital units that you don't want shooting at you (IG heavy teams, Longfangs, Broadsides, crisis suits, etc.). The biggest bonus is you can still spawn while they're locked in CC. Not to mention the fact that Spyders themselves are to be reckoned with both in CC and survivability. Wraiths mesh well with them, backing up assaults, or killing what spills out. Scarabs are FAR more reliable in popping vehicles than Destructors in my experience. Combined with Nemesor, 20+ furious charging scarab bases will work over most things.

My WW is 2x6 Wraiths and 10 Scarabs. Lately I've been running 1 spyder just to get the extra 3" on the scarab swarm and repair the barges/scythes if they suffer weapon destroyed results, bringing the scarab section of the list up to 215.

I think that the scarabs complement the wraiths very well, able to tarpit most infantry and strip vehicles to their frame; being beasts, their threat radius is enormous, and they end up being a high priority target that I don't mind losing, drawing S6+ fire away from the units I really care about.

I haven't had a single loss yet with this list:
Anrakyr in CCB
Destroyer Lord w Scarabs
Pulse-tek
Lance-tek
2x6 wraiths
1x10 tesla eternals
2x5 gauss immortals
2x night scythes
10 scarabs
2x A.barges
(At 2000, I add a spyder and a night scythe.)

As JY2 pointed out, it's 'threat overload' everything needs to be dealt with, and while everything works well together, nothing relies on anything else to be effective, so while your opponent has to make difficult decisions every round, you don't care what he chooses.

junk wrote:

Zid wrote:

Red Corsair wrote:It seems evident that wraiths are clearly well worth their points in any list just for the sake of how much fire they draw AND survive through. It is also starting to seem like spamming as many tesla destruction as possible is the way to go.

I see the scarab farm doing well also but I think they both match up very differently. I still think that against a keen opponent scarabs won't help the wraiths as well as having another unit of wraiths as others have pointed out they just give an opponent an easy out in assault do to fearless saves. They also require or at least should have spyders which soak up your slots.

I also have a question for those who have used the scarabs with the WW, how do you find their mobility? I mean I know they are fast but they are also beasts now which means they can't jump over a smart screen like the wraiths can. I just feel like a smart bubble wrap unit would also stagger your assault. Food for thought.

Actually Scarabs work very well with Wraiths when used properly; they either string out and wreck a bunch of vehicles, soak up fire that would be otherwise pointed at your wraiths (and typically you will have 18+ scarab bases by the time your opponent starts on them), or can tie up vital units that you don't want shooting at you (IG heavy teams, Longfangs, Broadsides, crisis suits, etc.). The biggest bonus is you can still spawn while they're locked in CC. Not to mention the fact that Spyders themselves are to be reckoned with both in CC and survivability. Wraiths mesh well with them, backing up assaults, or killing what spills out. Scarabs are FAR more reliable in popping vehicles than Destructors in my experience. Combined with Nemesor, 20+ furious charging scarab bases will work over most things.

My WW is 2x6 Wraiths and 10 Scarabs. Lately I've been running 1 spyder just to get the extra 3" on the scarab swarm and repair the barges/scythes if they suffer weapon destroyed results, bringing the scarab section of the list up to 215.

I think that the scarabs complement the wraiths very well, able to tarpit most infantry and strip vehicles to their frame; being beasts, their threat radius is enormous, and they end up being a high priority target that I don't mind losing, drawing S6+ fire away from the units I really care about.

I haven't had a single loss yet with this list:
Anrakyr in CCB
Destroyer Lord w Scarabs
Pulse-tek
Lance-tek
2x6 wraiths
1x10 tesla eternals
2x5 gauss immortals
2x night scythes
10 scarabs
2x A.barges
(At 2000, I add a spyder and a night scythe.)

As JY2 pointed out, it's 'threat overload' everything needs to be dealt with, and while everything works well together, nothing relies on anything else to be effective, so while your opponent has to make difficult decisions every round, you don't care what he chooses.

Thats a decent list, my issue is A-barges haven't done much in any of my games, and I'm NOT a fan of Scythes in the least. Anrakyr is OK but I feel he just doesn't provide the synergy with the list that Nemesor does. Of course, different things work for different people, and different metas make different lists work well.

The way I look at lists I want to run is "if I play this list, can it beat my Blood Angels, Dark Eldar, and Daemons competative lists more times than not?" If the answers maybe, I test it. If the answers No, I scrap it. If the answers yes in any form, I test it against others.

I would be happy to keep posting my results. I am not completely abandoning Wraithwing, just playtesting something different to see if I can make the list more competitive. As it stands I find Tesla Destructors a great weapon when dealing with infantry but find them slightly lacking when you need a vehicle destroyed...they tend to wrack up damage results more than anything else. By adding in some dedicated S8 (with some AP) for vehicle popping not only am I getting some defense vs Draigowing, I'm also freeing up some Tesla for infantry which is where I want them. The weakness of this is I lose practically all cc ability but at the same time going full MSU means I can rely on getting multiple rounds of shooting vs units that do get the charge, provided I utilize my mobility to the fullest. Whether it will work or not is something that (I feel) needs to be tested.