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Night Haunter wanted vindication, that's why he got himself killed, like those artists out there doing funky things to make a point, that's what curze did. By letting himself get killed he.... dammit ran out of steam

blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:But he's a daemon prince. He's not full daemon, so wouldn't it be easier for them to come into the material world?

Daemon Princes are superior to any other form of daemon, with the exception of something like a full-blown minor Chaos God.

Konrad Curze is known to be dead. Dead as dead can possibly be. They even have it on camera. They could, of course, retcon it into a "but he wasn't really dead" situation, but I don't think that's the case. Oh, yes, by the way, they did find the assassin that killed him. Well, the Nightlords found her, anyway.

blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:Night Haunter wanted vindication, that's why he got himself killed, like those artists out there doing funky things to make a point, that's what curze did. By letting himself get killed he.... dammit ran out of steam

He wanted revenge not vindication. And try pop tarts, they put the steam right back in you regardless

Ravenous D wrote:

purplefood wrote:

Ravenous D wrote:Im leaning towards Lionel, he disappeared mysteriously and left luthor batcrap insane.

But either way thats another primarch in the dead pile, thanks Ward.

Lionel is in the Rock. We know this as a 3rd party but the Da do not.

And thors head is on his body on Terra, and the enslavers were the reason the necrons went to sleep, and there is only 4 ctan etc etc, point is, Ward crapped on the fluff, it doesnt matter what was before.

There's more than 4 c'tan now? Then things are worst than I could have imagined..



Ward....must....kill....ward...warrrrrddddd

Samus_aran115 wrote:

Ravenous D wrote:And thors head is on his body on Terra, and the enslavers were the reason the necrons went to sleep, and there is only 4 ctan etc etc, point is, Ward crapped on the fluff, it doesnt matter what was before.

There's more than 4 c'tan now? Then things are worst than I could have imagined..



Ward....must....kill....ward...warrrrrddddd

Hi, non-noob here. You are both clearly relatively new to the game, and so don't know what happened when the old Necron codex came out.


The old Necron codex gak over EVERYTHING. The "4 c'tan behind everything hurr hurr" was THE WORST FLUFF MOVE GW EVER MADE.

It was an abomination of writing. And guess what? Ward didn't even exist on the radar back then.


The new Necron codex is a shining jewel of anti-horribleness and anyone on the Ward-hate bandwagon that thinks the Necron codex is an extension of his bad fluff writing deserves to be shipped back to 4th edition and forced to fight Eldar until they repent.

Oh hush, there were always more than 4 ctan, we just used to think most of them got consumed. Now it is thought that that is not the case. The new fluff is great, and a huge improvement over the old, your just trying to jump on the ward hate bandwagon.

How is this one of the more horrible things in the fluff?

And how are you getting on a soap box?

Hmmm I have to disagree. While there were problems with the old fluff I did rather like the idea of an awakening monolithic empire of doom and the C'tan masters of old.

However I will concede that it probably wasn't the greatest of ideas as it made it hard to expand on the existing fluff with anything past 'Boo we're gonna get you! We're still getting over a hang over from our last orgy and so we can't do anything about it right now, but when we do... we'll get you!'.

I can accept that viewpoint, it is the knee jerk "it was made by ward so it must be crap" response that is tiring. Even if you prefer the old fluff, the new stuff isn't bad, and hardly worthy of such vitrol.

You pretty much summed up my feelings on the matter with the second paragraph. I can see the allure of the mysterious, faceless army, it is just totally inappropriate for a playable race.

Again, you summed it up why it doesn't work well. And it is kind of a bit of a mary sue thing, "ooohh, we're all powerful and super cool and scary and made everything happen and win at everything and the only way we ever lost in the first palce was 'cause everything was already dead. So, we're so cool and powerful and could totally kill everything, but we're all sleepy right now you you are only fighting 1% of our power, cause we're so awesome 'n stuff".

I liked the feel, it just didn't work for a playable race.

I don't believe for a moment that the original quote is implying a Primarch. Why?

-Any marine is a "Giant of a Man" when compared to a normal human
-There are a few descriptions of Inquisitors being at least 7-8 feet tall (Hector Rex i believe is one)
-Remember, Space Marines aren't Actually a dime a dozen like we all think, with only around 1 million be around at a time (1000ish chapters of a 1000ish marines each) So compared to the population of humanity and how big the universe is they are quite rare actually.
-Having Fancy armor can allude to pretty much any fairly high ranking SM or INQ. etc. etc.
-As has been pointed out, a Primarch really doesnt fit in with the other mentioned items.
-Primarchs are too valuable fluff wise to kill off, especially ones who are set to return for some reason (Vulkan, Russ, Corax specifically) (Side note, I do think however the Primarch of legions II or XI could be possible as someone mentioned b/c they Failed the emperor (the Lost perhaps?)

Anyways, those are my thoughts on the matter

riplikash wrote:Oh hush, there were always more than 4 ctan, we just used to think most of them got consumed. Now it is thought that that is not the case. The new fluff is great, and a huge improvement over the old, your just trying to jump on the ward hate bandwagon.

How is this one of the more horrible things in the fluff?

And how are you getting on a soap box?

There was 9, 2 were killed by the Eldar blackstone fortresses (no longer exist and thus making alot of the 13th black crusade fluff disappear, including Eldrads death) and the other 3 were eaten by the outsider. All that is gone as the crons themselves killed their own gods, who apparently didnt have the foresight that the necrons would be pissed about giving up their humanity.... but whatever, right?

Contrary to Ph34r and yourself, I think the new necron dex is terrible, as it undoes much of the pre established history of the game. Sure the Ctan were shoe horned in back in 3rd by Andy Chambers but at least he went out of his way to make it make sense. The new book dashed all that to pieces with over the top sillyness. Instead of expanding on what was there it was retconned into oblivion and replaced with dumb doctor who style junk. The Great Sleep is probably the best example, instead of sleeping because the ctans food source was dwindling due to the enslaver plague, they go to sleep for 60 million years because.... um... they felt like it? Sure they were weakened after killing the Ctan but what the hell were the eldar doing while they made massive world tombs? The Eldar had 60 million years to deal with them but instead they make the god of porn. C'mon.

As for the hate bandwagon... wtf is wrong with you people? Are you so abused that you cant tell gak from something that is good? Next you'll be telling me that super hero comics are well written. Ward writes fun rules, but his fluff is atrocious, just admit it, that it can use work and improvement.

SonofTerra wrote:I don't believe for a moment that the original quote is implying a Primarch. Why?

-Any marine is a "Giant of a Man" when compared to a normal human
-There are a few descriptions of Inquisitors being at least 7-8 feet tall (Hector Rex i believe is one)
-Remember, Space Marines aren't Actually a dime a dozen like we all think, with only around 1 million be around at a time (1000ish chapters of a 1000ish marines each) So compared to the population of humanity and how big the universe is they are quite rare actually.
-Having Fancy armor can allude to pretty much any fairly high ranking SM or INQ. etc. etc.
-As has been pointed out, a Primarch really doesnt fit in with the other mentioned items.
-Primarchs are too valuable fluff wise to kill off, especially ones who are set to return for some reason (Vulkan, Russ, Corax specifically) (Side note, I do think however the Primarch of legions II or XI could be possible as someone mentioned b/c they Failed the emperor (the Lost perhaps?)

Anyways, those are my thoughts on the matter

Relative to what Trayzn collects, Space marines are indeed a dime a dozen. relativly speaking.

"Giant man" again is relative here. If it was indeed just a space marine it would just say so. from our perspective Giant men are relativly common, so if it was a Space Marinethey would just say so.

There have always been many C'Tan. Not only four and certainly not only nine. The Nightbringer and the Outsider both have fluff saying they ate quite a few C'Tan. One was tricked into it by the deceiver, the other by the Laughing God of the Eldar. I don't know why anyone would think the Black Stone fortresses are gone. The Necrons went into sleep mode (aka hiding) because of the Eldar and the orks and such after being weakened from the fight with the C'Tan.

Many of the elements of the old fluff are still there, the codex just spends a lot less time talking about ancient history than it does about the present unlike the older dex. Yes, things were changed but please don't over exaggerate. Sorry?

All Space Marines are giants when compared to men. A giant of a man could refer to any space marine. Baroque would mean ornate and old looking power armour. It doesn't necessarily mean that Trazyn has a Primarch but it also doesn't preclude a Primarch

BrainDeleted wrote:
All Space Marines are giants when compared to men. A giant of a man could refer to any space marine. Baroque would mean ornate and old looking power armour. It doesn't necessarily mean that Trazyn has a Primarch but it also doesn't preclude a Primarch

Not enough evidence for or against?

For everyone saying one of the Unknown Primarchs is the so-called captive, they can't be, as they don't have access to power armour, do they?
I was sure that the big E never found them..

All primarchs were found, and fought alongside their legions IIrc.

The two were then lost, and purged respectively.

//Calle

ah, ok, seem I was mistaken

it's Sigmar..... the necrons can even raid other settings.

SonofTerra wrote:I don't believe for a moment that the original quote is implying a Primarch. Why?

-Any marine is a "Giant of a Man" when compared to a normal human
-There are a few descriptions of Inquisitors being at least 7-8 feet tall (Hector Rex i believe is one)
-Remember, Space Marines aren't Actually a dime a dozen like we all think, with only around 1 million be around at a time (1000ish chapters of a 1000ish marines each) So compared to the population of humanity and how big the universe is they are quite rare actually.
-Having Fancy armor can allude to pretty much any fairly high ranking SM or INQ. etc. etc.
-As has been pointed out, a Primarch really doesnt fit in with the other mentioned items.
-Primarchs are too valuable fluff wise to kill off, especially ones who are set to return for some reason (Vulkan, Russ, Corax specifically) (Side note, I do think however the Primarch of legions II or XI could be possible as someone mentioned b/c they Failed the emperor (the Lost perhaps?)

Anyways, those are my thoughts on the matter

It wouldn't be worth mentioning in the codex if it were not a Primarch or someone of nigh equal value like Constantin Valdor.

The only way I would accept that it could be a primarch would be if Trazyn went and secretly stole the body of an existing dead Primarch. Like Robert Gullimane from the Ultramarines.

Actually, if I was Trazyn, I think I would more likely do that rather than go on some wide goose chase in the warp searching fruitless for something which entire chapters have failed to find. I mean, some loyalist Primarchs are already nicely preserved in stasis, just need to secretly go there and rob the body. That should to be quite straight forward for someone such as Trazyn.

Psienesis wrote:

blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:But he's a daemon prince. He's not full daemon, so wouldn't it be easier for them to come into the material world?

Daemon Princes are superior to any other form of daemon, with the exception of something like a full-blown minor Chaos God.

Not entirely true

IA: Infernal Threat At the pinnacle of daemonic society are the Daemon Princes. To a follower of Chaos, the ascension to the status of Daemon Prince is the ultimate accolade. Although many are less powerful in the field of battle than the Greater Daemon, there are those have the capacity to enslave worlds to their whim, or change reality with a glance.

I think it also mentions in Codex: Daemons that some Greater Daemons look down on the Daemon Princes as lesser than them as they are not full Daemon.

Codex: Chaos Space Marines also goes on to state

Amongst the wide Daemonic Pantheon, Greater Daemons are the most Powerful.

TheAngrySquig wrote:

He wanted revenge not vindication. And try pop tarts, they put the steam right back in you regardless

From the Night Haunters lips

"Your presence does not surprise me, Assassin. I have known of you ever since your craft entered the Eastern Fringes. Why did I not have you killed? Because your mission and the act you are about to commit proves the truth of all I have ever said or done. I merely punished those who had wronged, just as your false Emperor now seeks to punish me. Death is nothing compared to vindication."

In the WD he said something about him planning to visit Guilliman.
In the report with Ward himself.

thenoobbomb wrote:In the WD he said something about him planning to visit Guilliman.
In the report with Ward himself.

But that was after the dex came out so...

Ravenous D wrote:
the Eldar blackstone fortresses (no longer exist and thus making alot of the 13th black crusade fluff disappear, including Eldrads death)

What makes you think that this is the case? It's not mentioned in the Necron Codex, but that doesn't delve into a great deal of detail in regards to the war against the Old Ones. The Blackstone Fortresses could still have been constructed by either Vaul or the Eldar themselves. Perhaps not singularly to fight the C'tan (although why not? The Eldar would have struggled against them as well), but they could be present nonetheless (and nothing suggests to me that they are not).

All that is gone as the crons themselves killed their own gods, who apparently didnt have the foresight that the necrons would be pissed about giving up their humanity.... but whatever, right?

The C'tan were hugely arrogant. They didn't expect the Silent King to turn on them, and even he did, they likely thought that they'd have the power to defeat the Necrons. They underestimated the a potential foe. That's not that unlikely.

The Great Sleep is probably the best example, instead of sleeping because the ctans food source was dwindling due to the enslaver plague, they go to sleep for 60 million years because.... um... they felt like it?

They go to sleep because they were too weak to face the Eldar after defeating both the Old Ones and the C'tan. It makes more sense than the C'tan deciding not to eliminate the few threats to them because they felt like not doing so why they went to sleep (seriously? They could've (seemingly) sent Necrons to wipe out the Eldar and destroy the Talismans of Vaul (well, maybe not the actual Talismans of Vaul if Vaul was still operating them, but a good chunk of the Eldar) while the Eldar were in disarray and dying to the Enslavers, but instead decided to sleep before doing that one thing.

Sure they were weakened after killing the Ctan but what the hell were the eldar doing while they made massive world tombs?

Recovering from the war? Developing technology (we don't know what level they were at, afterall)? They were not too keen on sacrificing their lives in the midst of assault by Warp entities when they don't have to? Really, what would you do if your enemies had just disappeared? How would the Eldar know that they'd gone to sleep? How would they know where these Tomb Worlds were?)

Actually the Great Sleep doesn't make as much sense now. If they were so weak that they were in danger of getting stomped by the Eldar, then running and/or hiding makes sense, but investing huge amounts of resources to build stasis tombs on what were already their homeworlds... not so much. Their plan was basically 100% dependent on the Eldar not putting much effort into hunting them down.

King Pariah wrote:
It wouldn't be worth mentioning in the codex if it were not a Primarch or someone of nigh equal value like Constantin Valdor.

Then why does the codex have about two paragraphs about the capture and escape of a White Scars Captain?

All the people saying this kind of thing are not being reasonable at all.

daveNYC wrote:Actually the Great Sleep doesn't make as much sense now. If they were so weak that they were in danger of getting stomped by the Eldar, then running and/or hiding makes sense, but investing huge amounts of resources to build stasis tombs on what were already their homeworlds... not so much. Their plan was basically 100% dependent on the Eldar not putting much effort into hunting them down.

The Necrons are spread across the galaxy. They didn't just build stasis tombs in the immediate vicinity of their homeworld, and we don't even know if the Eldar knew where the Necrontyr came from.

Being unable to face the Eldar in open combat is one thing (although I'm not sure how much damage the Warp entities did to them), especially since without the C'tan present the Eldar would have the advantage in the Webway (both sides main source of faster-than-light travel), but the Eldar may not have had the ability (or the will - afterall, they had just fought a losing war against the Necrons and their servants, and would not have known what the Necrons were doing. Restarting a war with a foe of unknown strength that had just destroyed both your masters and their former allies (of great power) would not be a great move)) to actually enter into the Tomb Worlds and destroy the Necrons.

The Eldar did destroy some tomb worlds. The problem is that tomb worlds are very well concealed. Any race would get bored of it after a few million years and do some other stuff. It's like losing at hide and seek when you're the seeker. What the heck are you supposed to do when the other kids won't come out? Go play a different game.(And create Slaanesh with sex)

Yep, apparently there are millions if not more tomb worlds in the universe and billions upon billions of necrons. So if that was them in their weakened state, how big was the eldar empire?

Let's go over it guys...we will never know who that man is.
GW just love to troll us like that.
Just like Terminus Decree or Prmarchs of Legions II and IX.

BrainDeleted wrote:

King Pariah wrote:
It wouldn't be worth mentioning in the codex if it were not a Primarch or someone of nigh equal value like Constantin Valdor.

Then why does the codex have about two paragraphs about the capture and escape of a White Scars Captain?

All the people saying this kind of thing are not being reasonable at all.

For one, the White Scars captain was about Zahndrekh and Obyron. So that really has nothing to do with the Discussion about Trazyn's Collections.


And yes, it would need to be someone valuable for a mention in Trazyn's Collections.