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Brother Coa wrote:I am amazed he didn't try to take Emperor for his collection.
He is one of a kind.

Spoiler:

( He is Matt Ward creation, I wouldn't be surprised if he had Khorne as a trophy )

People need to lay off the Ward hate. It's getting old, really fast.

Brother Coa wrote:I am amazed he didn't try to take Emperor for his collection.
He is one of a kind.

Spoiler:

( He is Matt Ward creation, I wouldn't be surprised if he had Khorne as a trophy )

Ignoring the Ward-hate dickery, that would be a cool idea.

Brother Coa wrote:I am amazed he didn't try to take Emperor for his collection.

I am sure he has considered doing it. If it was feasable he probably would try, but it probably isn't.

Imagine if he replaced the Emporer with a Necron wrapped in human flesh
Wait, Creed would probablt have to help him...

Sasori wrote:
For one, the White Scars captain was about Zahndrekh and Obyron. So that really has nothing to do with the Discussion about Trazyn's Collections.


And yes, it would need to be someone valuable for a mention in Trazyn's Collections.

Thanks, Mr. Obvious. Try reading what I the quote I was replying to before making comments.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sasori wrote:I don't See how Braindeleted points stands at all, considering it's a specific circumstance involving Two completely different Necrons. They needed someone current for Zahndrekh and Obyrons story, as they more combat and war oriented, compared to Trazyn who is a preserver of histories.

Trazyn also referred to Guliman as "An Old friend" and said he would "Be better served in my company than yours" It's clear that Trazyn has the means to capture and hold Primarchs if he is going to make such a bold statement to captain Sicarus. His statement also implies that he was active during the time of Heresy. it's quite possible that he laid a trap for one of the Primarchs after the Hersey.

There is literately no reason why they wouldn't say something like "Among a slew of ancient and venerated chapter masters that adorn his collection" instead of the baroque line if it was something so simple. Chapter masters aren't special, and there would no reason to be vague about it

My point wasn't about Zahndrekh or Obyron. Someone said a Space Marine isn't worth mentioning in the Codex. I was proving that person wrong. Context???

Other than that, it's a very silly thing to say a Chapter Master isn't special or rare. There are only ~1000 in the Galaxy at anyone time. Compare with anything else, please? Especially one that won a great battle or one that was the last of his kind, i.e. last Chapter Master of the Swords of the Emperor or something random like that. Victor of the Battle of Thanitos or anything random like that. The Chapter Master that led his marines to chaos and would later cause a score of systems to fall? There are literally endless possibilities to make any one marine worthwhile to the looney.

Another thing to note, there are no other mentions of Marines in Trazyn's collection. But the passage talks at length about the Guard in his collection. So...He might, in fact, only have one marine in his entire display. Making which ever one worth mention and a special little one line.

Plenty of other people would have access to 'baroque' power armor, it simply means it's ancient and very ornate. Giant of a man...Any space marine fits that bill, even some Inquisitors like Hector Rex. Could just be a Grey Knight higher up. Both are still insanely rare on the grand scale. Primarches do as well, like I said. You can't discount any of these options in favor of the most impressive just because you want to believe in Trazyn's power. It's one line deliberately left vague so GW doesn't have to commit to anything come next codex. No reason to assume it isn't even just a Marine Trazyn dressed up in another famous marine's armor because he's a creep like that. Or even something more esoteric.

It's equally probable Trazyn said things like that to Sicarus because he's a creep and he likes to get into people's heads. 'Nah, nah, nah, I'm really old. I'm dissing your spiritual liege. Ooooh, whatcha gonna do bout it?'

No reason to assume it isn't even just a Marine Trazyn dressed up in another famous marine's armor because he's a creep like that. Or even something more esoteric.

LOL. Love that idea.

Trayzn is now explained to you:

The first chapter master of a First Founding legion would be fairly... collectible?
They are not only a survivor of the HH. They knew the primarchs and were deemed worthy enough to take the remnants of the legion into a new era.
Also they were the first of a new breed of SM commanders. By that i mean tactics not actually genetic differences..
Though some might have...

There are billions of stars in the milky way and millions of planets. There are also countless numbers of battles going on and countless numbers of glorious events occuring, we only see a few of them, who's to say that the ones we are aware of are the only instances of unmitigated glory?

There isn't enough evidence to support a primarch or anyone, to say that it's obviously this, or obviously that, is pure speculation, and that's what they want!

I wouldn't be surprised if GW pulled a jerk move and it turns out to be some random person that no one's ever heard about

Sasori wrote:I never said Sebastian Thor was important as a Primarch, in fact I Said the opposite. Please re-read my statement. You personally, may not believe that it could be a Primarch, but I do, based on these things. You are free to draw your conclusions based on the evidence one way, and mine the other. It doesn't make either of us incorrect however.

Again, never said that. Just said there isn't enough evidence to say one way or the other.

Sebastian Thor was important to history, and they mentioned his name, why wouldn't they do the same if it was some historical important Chapter Master? Or a Rogue Trader?

For the numerous reasons that have been repeated ad-nausium, which you yourself admitted were just as likely as it being a primarch.

People have stated it could just be a Custodes, or a Inquisitor. Both of which could be, or not be historically relevant.

Ok, so we have established Custdes, Inquisitors, etc. could be historyically relevant. So lets drop the whole "dime a dozen" and "some random captain" attacks, ok?

I've never said it is a 100% certainty that it is a Primarch. I've said the line is clearly there to indicate that Trazyn holds a Primarch, and really the only reason why it would be vague is to create speculation of this type. "Indicate" and "Implies" does not mean 100% Certainty.

You agreed in that you said those other options were just as valid reasons. You keep coming back to "it being primarch is the only reason to be vague". It isn't, that argument needs to be dropped.

It is proof that the line of text was there to indicate the possibility of a Primarch. The fact that people have come to that conclusion IS proof.

No, the fact that some people, and we have no idea how many, jumped to the conclusion 'it is a primarch' does not mean their intent was to indicate it is a primarch. I don't know how you could even come to that conclusion. I've heard some people argue it's horus, or the emperor. By your logic this was there intent. Random fan speculation does not in any way imply intent on the authors part.

Sure, there are plenty. Why wouldn't he list their name though?

For the many reasons already listed which you yourself have admitted are just as likely as it being a primarch.

When the fact of the matter is, that GW will not outright say what happened to the missing Primarchs, there is never going to be any proof. There are only going to be lines that are supposed to lead us to the conclusion that it may be one. This is one of those lines, and it's as close to proof as you are going to get.

No, that isn't how logic works. It just mean, as I have been saying, they haven't, and won't, give enough evidence to support any conclusion. That is all it means.

I don't see how you can say with a strait face that they will never give us enough evidence to know if it is a primarch, and this counts as evidence it is a primarch.

Riplikash, I fear you are being trolled now!

Castiel wrote:Riplikash, I fear you are being trolled now!

I fear you are overusing that stupid internet adjective, when clearly it is not my intent to Troll.


Either way, the conversation is going in circles. You can choose to believe what you want, and draw conclusions how you want. I'll do the same.

Sasori wrote:

Castiel wrote:Riplikash, I fear you are being trolled now!

I fear you are overusing that stupid internet adjective, when clearly it is not my intent to Troll.


Either way, the conversation is going in circles. You can choose to believe what you want, and draw conclusions how you want. I'll do the same.

First time I've ever used it, but as you appeared to be giong in circles it seemed fairly likely.

Castiel wrote:

Sasori wrote:

Castiel wrote:Riplikash, I fear you are being trolled now!

I fear you are overusing that stupid internet adjective, when clearly it is not my intent to Troll.


Either way, the conversation is going in circles. You can choose to believe what you want, and draw conclusions how you want. I'll do the same.

First time I've ever used it, but as you appeared to be giong in circles it seemed fairly likely.

No, it's not likely at all. I'm not going to waste my time debating something for the purposes "Trolling." I have better things to do with my time.

From Outcast Dead:

kronk wrote:From Outcast Dead:

Spoiler:

Could it be another Proto-Marine in Thunder Armor?

This is an idea that's been in my mind as well, but I wasn't sure if there woud have been any around for Trazyn to grab, but then noone knows how long he's been awake for, so it is certainly a possibility!

It's the Emperor. Why else do you think Chaos calls him the false emperor?

Magnus, Mortarion, Angron, and Fulgrim knew the Emperor personally and they still call the man on the throne the false emperor after all these years.

The guy they have on the throne is probably Malcador the Sigilite and not the Emperor himself.

It's probably why the Grey Knights don't enact the Terminus Decree. They know it's not really the Emperor.

Roadkill Zombie wrote:It's the Emperor. Why else do you think Chaos calls him the false emperor?

That sound like kind of fluff.
But if Trayzn is so powerful that he has the Emperor, then next are Chaos Gods, then Hive Mind, then Isha, then Etherials...

Roadkill Zombie wrote:It's the Emperor. Why else do you think Chaos calls him the false emperor?

Magnus, Mortarion, Angron, and Fulgrim knew the Emperor personally and they still call the man on the throne the false emperor after all these years.

The guy they have on the throne is probably Malcador the Sigilite and not the Emperor himself.

It's probably why the Grey Knights don't enact the Terminus Decree. They know it's not really the Emperor.

Yep, definitely. See, we know it is the emperor because they couldn't SAY it was the emperor, and that is proof. There is literally no reason why they wouldn't say otherwise.

And they obviously wanted us to think it was the emperor, because the fact that people thought that is PROOF that they wanted us to think it.

And that is our proof it wasn't a primarch too. There are 20 primarchs, why would he bother with some run of the mill primarch. No his other items are unique, so it must be another unique item, which means it absolutely HAS to be the emperor.

BrainDeleted wrote:

Sasori wrote:
For one, the White Scars captain was about Zahndrekh and Obyron. So that really has nothing to do with the Discussion about Trazyn's Collections.


And yes, it would need to be someone valuable for a mention in Trazyn's Collections.

Thanks, Mr. Obvious. Try reading what I the quote I was replying to before making comments.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sasori wrote:I don't See how Braindeleted points stands at all, considering it's a specific circumstance involving Two completely different Necrons. They needed someone current for Zahndrekh and Obyrons story, as they more combat and war oriented, compared to Trazyn who is a preserver of histories.

Trazyn also referred to Guliman as "An Old friend" and said he would "Be better served in my company than yours" It's clear that Trazyn has the means to capture and hold Primarchs if he is going to make such a bold statement to captain Sicarus. His statement also implies that he was active during the time of Heresy. it's quite possible that he laid a trap for one of the Primarchs after the Hersey.

There is literately no reason why they wouldn't say something like "Among a slew of ancient and venerated chapter masters that adorn his collection" instead of the baroque line if it was something so simple. Chapter masters aren't special, and there would no reason to be vague about it

My point wasn't about Zahndrekh or Obyron. Someone said a Space Marine isn't worth mentioning in the Codex. I was proving that person wrong. Context???

Other than that, it's a very silly thing to say a Chapter Master isn't special or rare. There are only ~1000 in the Galaxy at anyone time. Compare with anything else, please? Especially one that won a great battle or one that was the last of his kind, i.e. last Chapter Master of the Swords of the Emperor or something random like that. Victor of the Battle of Thanitos or anything random like that. The Chapter Master that led his marines to chaos and would later cause a score of systems to fall? There are literally endless possibilities to make any one marine worthwhile to the looney.

Another thing to note, there are no other mentions of Marines in Trazyn's collection. But the passage talks at length about the Guard in his collection. So...He might, in fact, only have one marine in his entire display. Making which ever one worth mention and a special little one line.

Plenty of other people would have access to 'baroque' power armor, it simply means it's ancient and very ornate. Giant of a man...Any space marine fits that bill, even some Inquisitors like Hector Rex. Could just be a Grey Knight higher up. Both are still insanely rare on the grand scale. Primarches do as well, like I said. You can't discount any of these options in favor of the most impressive just because you want to believe in Trazyn's power. It's one line deliberately left vague so GW doesn't have to commit to anything come next codex. No reason to assume it isn't even just a Marine Trazyn dressed up in another famous marine's armor because he's a creep like that. Or even something more esoteric.

It's equally probable Trazyn said things like that to Sicarus because he's a creep and he likes to get into people's heads. 'Nah, nah, nah, I'm really old. I'm dissing your spiritual liege. Ooooh, whatcha gonna do bout it?'

I don't see how that disproved what I said earlier. I feel that that incident was used to give a bit of an insight into the personalities of Zandrekh and Obryon. And then also what reason is there to be elusive if it is merely a space marine in Trazyn's collection? Elusive fluff when it comes to GW tends to imply characters they don't want revealed. LIKE PRIMARCHS. And I did say that Constantin Valdor would also make sense, well anyone that GW has said that no one knows where they are would work.

Brother Coa wrote:

Roadkill Zombie wrote:It's the Emperor. Why else do you think Chaos calls him the false emperor?

That sound like

Spoiler:

Matt Ward

kind of fluff.
But if Trayzn is so powerful that he has the Emperor, then next are Chaos Gods, then Hive Mind, then Isha, then Etherials...

These days all of the fluff of 40k sounds like Matt Ward style fluff to me. And why would he bother with a primarch when there are 20 of them?

And to be honest, this is one of those little tidbits they put in a book to spark endless debate and they will never tell us who it is. It's the kind of stuff they want us to make up on our own.

So I reject your reality and substitute my own. And my own says it's the Emperor.

Perhaps it's the last remaining member of the Forgotten, whom Trayzn remembers, or one of the... other legion who's 'name' I can't remember. Or it's Magnus' original armour. The 1k sons have been repeatedly been described as wearing baroque armor.
But Saying one way or the other I think is silly when there's enough different. things it could be. Once again, GW are mean and will never tell us one way or the other, and in fact probably thought it up as a bit of a way to get us all riled up.

One of the lost Primarchs maybe?

Its Horus lol

Horus is dead for sure.

Yeah, he was mind fried by the Emp, then had his body burnt by Abaddon.

Well... the 2 unknown primarchs are refered to as "the lost" and " the purged".

Maybe thats where "the lost" turned up.

So let's write down which Primarchs it definayely isn't.

Horus
Guilliman ( he is on Macragge)
Dorn (the IF have his remains)
Lion El'Johnson (asleep on the Rock)
Sanguinius
Mortarion (He is a Daemon Prince)
Angron (Daemon Prince)
Magnus the Red (DP)
Fulgrim (DP)
Perturabo( DP)
Kurze (Dead)
Lorgar (DP)


It could be
Vulkan
Jagathai Khan
Leman Russ
Corax

Deadshot wrote:So let's write down which Primarchs it definayely isn't.

Horus
Guilliman ( he is on Macragge)
Dorn (the IF have his remains)
Lion El'Johnson (asleep on the Rock)
Sanguinius
Mortarion (He is a Daemon Prince)
Angron (Daemon Prince)
Magnus the Red (DP)
Fulgrim (DP)
Perturabo( DP)
Kurze (Dead)
Lorgar (DP)


It could be
Vulkan
Jagathai Khan
Leman Russ
Corax

You forgot Alpharius and Omegon.

Where would they be though? They might be alive, dead, 1 of them dead or half and half.