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That sentence makes absolutely no mention of an Inquisitor. What it lists are: "the fabled wraithbone choir of Altansar, the preserved head of Sebastian Thor, the ossified husk of an Enslaver and a giant of a man clad in baroque power armour, his face contorted in a permanent scream."

There is no inquisitor there. And Inquisitors are not "giants of men". They're just normal men in power armour, so that rules them out. I'd also rank an entire wraithbone choir, and the head of one of the Imperium's saviours as being remarkably more important than an Inquisitor or a chapter master tbh.

BlapBlapBlap wrote:It could be Johnson. Giant man, dissapeared, venerable. I think it's Lion'el.

Johnson is in the Rock, thats a fact that we as the omniessent 3rd party know. The DA don't know, but we do.

Ouze wrote:As a side note, I really enjoyed the short piece of fluff where Trazyn gave "gift" of a tesseract labyrinth to Inquisitor Valeria.

Last night I was playing against a friend who was playing GK, and I was looking at the inquisitors section, and realized that she has, as an equipment choice, a tesseract labyrinth. Looks like she possessed the intellect to escape it, after all.

Looks like.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Ouze wrote:As a side note, I really enjoyed the short piece of fluff where Trazyn gave "gift" of a tesseract labyrinth to Inquisitor Valeria.

Last night I was playing against a friend who was playing GK, and I was looking at the inquisitors section, and realized that she has, as an equipment choice, a tesseract labyrinth. Looks like she possessed the intellect to escape it, after all.

Looks like.

Or she had a poor minion open it.

Maybe it was Konrad Curze, and the scream is his dual personalities?

Im leaning towards Lionel, he disappeared mysteriously and left luthor batcrap insane.

But either way thats another primarch in the dead pile, thanks Ward.

Dytalus wrote:That sentence makes absolutely no mention of an Inquisitor. What it lists are: "the fabled wraithbone choir of Altansar, the preserved head of Sebastian Thor, the ossified husk of an Enslaver and a giant of a man clad in baroque power armour, his face contorted in a permanent scream."

There is no inquisitor there. And Inquisitors are not "giants of men". They're just normal men in power armour, so that rules them out. I'd also rank an entire wraithbone choir, and the head of one of the Imperium's saviours as being remarkably more important than an Inquisitor or a chapter master tbh.

Oh yeah, I forgot about the scream, so probably at least biological. And for some reason I kept thinking sebastian thor was an inquisitor.

I still don't see how an Inquisitor or Chapter Master wouldn't fit in though. Would Maranous Calgar, Hector Rex, or Gregor Eisenhorn be out of place in that list? There are plenty of figures in the Imperium and beyond of similar importance.

And of course there are inquisitors who are "giants of men", and Rogue traders, and generals. There have been humans mentioned who rival, and even stand larger than space marines in the fluff.

Dytalus wrote:That sentence makes absolutely no mention of an Inquisitor. What it lists are: "the fabled wraithbone choir of Altansar, the preserved head of Sebastian Thor, the ossified husk of an Enslaver and a giant of a man clad in baroque power armour, his face contorted in a permanent scream."

There is no inquisitor there. And Inquisitors are not "giants of men". They're just normal men in power armour, so that rules them out. I'd also rank an entire wraithbone choir, and the head of one of the Imperium's saviours as being remarkably more important than an Inquisitor or a chapter master tbh.

Inquistors can be very big. They have access to almost everything at the Imperium's disposal. Whose to say they aren't enhanced to be bigger and stronger. Some Inquisitors probably have saved the Imperium... or at least large swathes of it.

Deadshot wrote:Maybe it was Konrad Curze, and the scream is his dual personalities?

Curze is dead.

Ravenous D wrote:Im leaning towards Lionel, he disappeared mysteriously and left luthor batcrap insane.

But either way thats another primarch in the dead pile, thanks Ward.

Lionel is in the Rock. We know this as a 3rd party but the Da do not.

I idn't say he need to be alive. Maybe his body was preserved. if Curze's body was destroyed, then scrap that.


Maybe it was one of the 2 lost Primarchs? maybe the Legion was lost because the New Necrons took their Tachyon Arrows, the Stormlord and Scarabspam and went ape- on them? The Emperor was too cowardly( or smart. A Space Marine Legion getting wiped by Xenos would have caused a lack of Faith in them) to tell, so hhe declares them missing and leaves the Primarch and few survivors to go out with a bang. The Infinate guy just happened to pick up the body.

it also makes sense. I understand that bar Corax and Sang, who needed to fly, and had lighter amrour, they all had TDA once it can out.

Could just be a dead space marine from before the heresy... Although I don't think the necrons were even on the radar in the 31st. Doesn't mean tranzyzyzyznynyn wasn't around though.

Maybe it's Russ. Although the space wolves found his power armor,so never mind.

Castiel wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Ouze wrote:As a side note, I really enjoyed the short piece of fluff where Trazyn gave "gift" of a tesseract labyrinth to Inquisitor Valeria.

Last night I was playing against a friend who was playing GK, and I was looking at the inquisitors section, and realized that she has, as an equipment choice, a tesseract labyrinth. Looks like she possessed the intellect to escape it, after all.

Looks like.

Or she had a poor minion open it.

That still counts as outsmarting it in my books.

Deadshot wrote:I idn't say he need to be alive. Maybe his body was preserved. if Curze's body was destroyed, then scrap that.


Maybe it was one of the 2 lost Primarchs? maybe the Legion was lost because the New Necrons took their Tachyon Arrows, the Stormlord and Scarabspam and went ape- on them? The Emperor was too cowardly( or smart. A Space Marine Legion getting wiped by Xenos would have caused a lack of Faith in them) to tell, so hhe declares them missing and leaves the Primarch and few survivors to go out with a bang. The Infinate guy just happened to pick up the body.

it also makes sense. I understand that bar Corax and Sang, who needed to fly, and had lighter amrour, they all had TDA once it can out.

Curze AFAIK had his head chopped off...
Again AFAIK both Legions were accounted for and dealt with in whatever way...

It's not that i don't think it could be a primarch, it would make sense as well, it's just that it would be rather sily for it to be a primarch...

What do you mean both Legions were accounted for? Nop one knows what happened. One is called the Forgotten , and the other, the Purged. As far as anyone is concerned, they just disappeared.

riplikash wrote:

Dytalus wrote:
Also, I agree that the prisoner is a primarch. There would have been no need to mention it especially if it was one of the dime a dozen inquisitors or chapter masters. Plus, we don't know how long primarchs live, nor how long Trazyn's actually been active, or if he had connections with the Praetorians who never slept.

Oh yeah, obviously they wouldn't mention something on the level of an inquisitor...like the one they mentioned in the exact same sentence. Why does everyone who brings up the point "inquisitors and chapter masters aren't important enough to mention" ignore the fact that the other two items listed are of that level of importance. It is like they said of a modern collection "he has on display a 16th century bible, a golden cup, and a 17th century suit of armor" and everyone interprets it as "OMG THE GOLDEN CUP IS THE HOLY GRAIL!!!! YOU KNOW IT IS THE HOLY GRAIL BECAUSE THEY WOULD NEVER MENTION ANYTHING LESS IMPORTANT LIKE SOME BOOK OR ARMOR OR SOMETHING!!!"

And why does everyone also always focus on inquisitors and chapter masters and ignore the numerous other examples that would make just as much sense, and more sense then a primarch: a man of iron, a chaos warlord, a famous rogue trader, etc. etc. etc.

But it would be pretty weird to just say: And he has the head of this inquisitor and the body of this one and..."

Knowing Ward, I would guess he wants to stir up some conversation by this reference. Besides Chapter Masters are not larger than normal marines, and Inquisitors are normally the size of regular humans. The description is too vague to be just an ordinary officer. It gives a sense of mystery, otherwise it could just be "the body of a Chapter Master, whose face seems to be screaming." I think it is vague on purpose.

Deadshot wrote:What do you mean both Legions were accounted for? Nop one knows what happened. One is called the Forgotten , and the other, the Purged. As far as anyone is concerned, they just disappeared.

Their fate was known to the Primarchs, the Emperor, and any Marines that were around when whatever happened happened.

Lorgar was warned that if he kepts defying the Emperor's order to not worship him then his fate might be like his 2 brothers. This implies that the Emperor actually killed them and wiped all records of their existance. The Space Wolves also imply they have fought Astartes before, maybe being the Emperor's tool to destroy those 2 legions.


The probability of Trazyn having one of the 2 lost ones is highly implausable.

Deadshot wrote:What do you mean both Legions were accounted for? Nop one knows what happened. One is called the Forgotten , and the other, the Purged. As far as anyone is concerned, they just disappeared.

There is a reason Russ and the Wolves are called the Executioners. Also at one point in First Heretic, Lorgar mentions to someone that he is worried about being purged "What will my father do, sick his dogs on me like our brothers?" I think is the quote

purplefood wrote:

Ravenous D wrote:Im leaning towards Lionel, he disappeared mysteriously and left luthor batcrap insane.

But either way thats another primarch in the dead pile, thanks Ward.

Lionel is in the Rock. We know this as a 3rd party but the Da do not.

And thors head is on his body on Terra, and the enslavers were the reason the necrons went to sleep, and there is only 4 ctan etc etc, point is, Ward crapped on the fluff, it doesnt matter what was before.

riplikash wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:But why would Trazyn have a Chapter Master or Inquisitor as a trinket, even a "famous" one?

Chapter Masters and Inquisitors are a dime a dozen in the 40k universe relativly speaking. he isn't one for collecting something he could literally pick up any time and any place.

But...he already has. Preserved head of Sebastian Thor, remember?

He captures and preserves guardsmen from great battles, and you think a chapter master or inquisitor is below his notice? How does that make sense? It is standing right next to the ossified husk of an enslaver, who greatly outnumbered chapter masters and inquisitors, and are much less important on an individual basis. If anything the mention of a Primarch amongst those items would be out of place, not an inquisitor or chapter master. And, again, it could still be a warlord, man of iron, rogue trader, high lord of terra, or some other important individual.

The way I see it is he collects things that are outstanding or amazing. A hero guardsman is something pretty amazing, considering what they're expected to do is be sent into the meat grinder. The reason why I find a chapter master or inquisitor a little less likely is because they are expected to do these amazing things. So maybe if they did something beyond expectations then it would probably catch Trazyn's eye.

For anyone who knows card games and stuff, let's say a chapter master or inquisitor is a really rare card that does your usual flashy stuff, pretty neat and its probably worth a bit, but imagine one that does your flashy stuff, but if you look closely at it, the flashy stuff can actually be used to pull of an amazing game winning combo. So instead of being your pretty cool rare, it becomes OP, and everyone wants it.

If that didn't make sense at all (most likely cuz i'm nodding off), what I'm saying is that you can't compare a CM or an Inquisitor to an guardsman, the expectations are different.


Back on topic, if it were a primarch, I'd have to say Vulkan because he's got the smithing skill, and his chapter is full of master craftsmen. It is most likely out of the primarchs that he would have baroque armour. Plus he left looking for those artifacts and such, and what race do we know has pretty cool OLD tech? Necrons

But I'm not gonna bet too much on Vulkan, I don't think GW is above pulling a curveball and the giant turns out to be, as grey templar suggested, a warlord, or techno-barbarian. Could even be a custodes

Dytalus wrote:That sentence makes absolutely no mention of an Inquisitor. What it lists are: "the fabled wraithbone choir of Altansar, the preserved head of Sebastian Thor, the ossified husk of an Enslaver and a giant of a man clad in baroque power armour, his face contorted in a permanent scream."

There is no inquisitor there. And Inquisitors are not "giants of men". They're just normal men in power armour, so that rules them out. I'd also rank an entire wraithbone choir, and the head of one of the Imperium's saviours as being remarkably more important than an Inquisitor or a chapter master tbh.

I keep forgetting about the scream part of the line. If it were a primarch, I think this lends some evidence to the theory that it could be Fulgrim. Could. Just putting it out there

As an avid fan of the mighty Green Marines, I don't like where this is going that the majority of folks think its Vulkan that the freaky old necron guy has! I reckon the Salamanders should be knocking on Trazyn's door...

Also, throwing another one in there, it could be Lorgar. None of the Word Bearers have seen him for 7000 years since he locked himself in a big cathedral on Sicarius. So if people think that Trazyn can manage to swipe Guilliman out of Macragge when he's constantly guarded, it wouldn't be beyond his capabilities to ambush Lorgar whilst he was meditating by himself.

I love the avid defence from DA fans that its absolutely not the Lion. Most of the Dark Angels don't know what happened to him.

Also, Corax completely disappeared without a trace when he left Deliverance. There has been no mention of what could have happened to him. Whereas with many of the other loyalists there is a prophecy (Vulkan), a shrine or hiding place (Lion, Guilliman, Sanguinius) or findings off equipment/pieces of them (like Russ and Dorn)

Caranthir987 wrote:As an avid fan of the mighty Green Marines, I don't like where this is going that the majority of folks think its Vulkan that the freaky old necron guy has! I reckon the Salamanders should be knocking on Trazyn's door...

Also, throwing another one in there, it could be Lorgar. None of the Word Bearers have seen him for 7000 years since he locked himself in a big cathedral on Sicarius. So if people think that Trazyn can manage to swipe Guilliman out of Macragge when he's constantly guarded, it wouldn't be beyond his capabilities to ambush Lorgar whilst he was meditating by himself.

I love the avid defence from DA fans that its absolutely not the Lion. Most of the Dark Angels don't know what happened to him.

Also, Corax completely disappeared without a trace when he left Deliverance. There has been no mention of what could have happened to him. Whereas with many of the other loyalists there is a prophecy (Vulkan), a shrine or hiding place (Lion, Guilliman, Sanguinius) or findings off equipment/pieces of them (like Russ and Dorn)

The Lion is in the Rock, as it's been said before. The watchers watch over him.

Lorgar seems like a stretch, it's easier to take a sleeping or in stasis primarch, but a fully aware demon prince primarch? I don't think it's a good idea

Don't Necrons have all sorts of anti-warp tech though? If they do, I would imagine that a daemon primarch wouldn't be hard to take down. I mean if Draigo can do it with a ballpoint pen, I think Trayzn could do it with some crazy super anti-warp death beam

TheAngrySquig wrote:Don't Necrons have all sorts of anti-warp tech though? If they do, I would imagine that a daemon primarch wouldn't be hard to take down. I mean if Draigo can do it with a ballpoint pen, I think Trayzn could do it with some crazy super anti-warp death beam

That's true, but daemon princes aren't pure warp, they're still part whatever they once were. They still have their superhuman conditioning and such from the Emp. Chaos just suppliments their already amazing abilities.

In Battle for the Fang


Or at least that's how I think it went

But don't blanks still affect them? And I'm fairly certain that the blanks would be super effective on a daemon-psyker, and we know that necrons use blanks

TheAngrySquig wrote:But don't blanks still affect them? And I'm fairly certain that the blanks would be super effective on a daemon-psyker, and we know that necrons use blanks

Well considering Lorgar wasn't a SUPER psyker like his brother, and I agree that anti-psyker weaponry would be extremely affective, I'm still a little hesitant about that. I mean he's a fully functioning primarch, he can still break things, and tear stuff up. Plus looking at the Word Bearers in general, and their usage of tonnes of minions, I'm pretty sure Lorgar would have a pretty hefy honour guard. Would give him enough time to run if the need arises

blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:

TheAngrySquig wrote:But don't blanks still affect them? And I'm fairly certain that the blanks would be super effective on a daemon-psyker, and we know that necrons use blanks

Well considering Lorgar wasn't a SUPER psyker like his brother, and I agree that anti-psyker weaponry would be extremely affective, I'm still a little hesitant about that. I mean he's a fully functioning primarch, he can still break things, and tear stuff up. Plus looking at the Word Bearers in general, and their usage of tonnes of minions, I'm pretty sure Lorgar would have a pretty hefy honour guard. Would give him enough time to run if the need arises

Unless Trayzn teleported right next to him, which also isn't unrealistic. And isn't the symbol of the WB now a screaming daemon? So wouldn't that explain the screaming face bit

TheAngrySquig wrote:

blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:

TheAngrySquig wrote:But don't blanks still affect them? And I'm fairly certain that the blanks would be super effective on a daemon-psyker, and we know that necrons use blanks

Well considering Lorgar wasn't a SUPER psyker like his brother, and I agree that anti-psyker weaponry would be extremely affective, I'm still a little hesitant about that. I mean he's a fully functioning primarch, he can still break things, and tear stuff up. Plus looking at the Word Bearers in general, and their usage of tonnes of minions, I'm pretty sure Lorgar would have a pretty hefy honour guard. Would give him enough time to run if the need arises

Unless Trayzn teleported right next to him, which also isn't unrealistic. And isn't the symbol of the WB now a screaming daemon? So wouldn't that explain the screaming face bit

Ah very good point, and if Trazyn does all that anti-warp jazz, Lorgar wouldn't be able to worship his gods, which would probably make him scream too! Very nice.... So basically all primarchs are up for grabs, except the ones that have no bodies left...

and any techno-barbs or custodes, or anyone with nice flashy bitz

Ravenous D wrote:

purplefood wrote:

Ravenous D wrote:Im leaning towards Lionel, he disappeared mysteriously and left luthor batcrap insane.

But either way thats another primarch in the dead pile, thanks Ward.

Lionel is in the Rock. We know this as a 3rd party but the Da do not.

And thors head is on his body on Terra, and the enslavers were the reason the necrons went to sleep, and there is only 4 ctan etc etc, point is, Ward crapped on the fluff, it doesnt matter what was before.

It really does. These things are called retcons, where the old fluff is replaced with new fluff. Is there any new fluff that replaces the facts we know that relate to the location of The Lion? Nope, not a bit. If it's not contradicted, then there's no retcon, and you go with the most up-to-date piece of info.

blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:

TheAngrySquig wrote:

blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:

TheAngrySquig wrote:But don't blanks still affect them? And I'm fairly certain that the blanks would be super effective on a daemon-psyker, and we know that necrons use blanks

Well considering Lorgar wasn't a SUPER psyker like his brother, and I agree that anti-psyker weaponry would be extremely affective, I'm still a little hesitant about that. I mean he's a fully functioning primarch, he can still break things, and tear stuff up. Plus looking at the Word Bearers in general, and their usage of tonnes of minions, I'm pretty sure Lorgar would have a pretty hefy honour guard. Would give him enough time to run if the need arises

Unless Trayzn teleported right next to him, which also isn't unrealistic. And isn't the symbol of the WB now a screaming daemon? So wouldn't that explain the screaming face bit

Ah very good point, and if Trazyn does all that anti-warp jazz, Lorgar wouldn't be able to worship his gods, which would probably make him scream too! Very nice.... So basically all primarchs are up for grabs, except the ones that have no bodies left...

and any techno-barbs or custodes, or anyone with nice flashy bitz

What about Macharius, he wore baroque armor for sure and was pretty damn important

TheAngrySquig wrote:

blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:

TheAngrySquig wrote:

blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:

TheAngrySquig wrote:But don't blanks still affect them? And I'm fairly certain that the blanks would be super effective on a daemon-psyker, and we know that necrons use blanks

Well considering Lorgar wasn't a SUPER psyker like his brother, and I agree that anti-psyker weaponry would be extremely affective, I'm still a little hesitant about that. I mean he's a fully functioning primarch, he can still break things, and tear stuff up. Plus looking at the Word Bearers in general, and their usage of tonnes of minions, I'm pretty sure Lorgar would have a pretty hefy honour guard. Would give him enough time to run if the need arises

Unless Trayzn teleported right next to him, which also isn't unrealistic. And isn't the symbol of the WB now a screaming daemon? So wouldn't that explain the screaming face bit

Ah very good point, and if Trazyn does all that anti-warp jazz, Lorgar wouldn't be able to worship his gods, which would probably make him scream too! Very nice.... So basically all primarchs are up for grabs, except the ones that have no bodies left...

and any techno-barbs or custodes, or anyone with nice flashy bitz

What about Macharius, he wore baroque armor for sure and was pretty damn important

Yeah anyone with flashy bitz, ahaha great now everyone's up for grabs. CURSE YOU GW

blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:

TheAngrySquig wrote:

blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:

TheAngrySquig wrote:But don't blanks still affect them? And I'm fairly certain that the blanks would be super effective on a daemon-psyker, and we know that necrons use blanks

Well considering Lorgar wasn't a SUPER psyker like his brother, and I agree that anti-psyker weaponry would be extremely affective, I'm still a little hesitant about that. I mean he's a fully functioning primarch, he can still break things, and tear stuff up. Plus looking at the Word Bearers in general, and their usage of tonnes of minions, I'm pretty sure Lorgar would have a pretty hefy honour guard. Would give him enough time to run if the need arises

Unless Trayzn teleported right next to him, which also isn't unrealistic. And isn't the symbol of the WB now a screaming daemon? So wouldn't that explain the screaming face bit

Ah very good point, and if Trazyn does all that anti-warp jazz, Lorgar wouldn't be able to worship his gods, which would probably make him scream too! Very nice.... So basically all primarchs are up for grabs, except the ones that have no bodies left...

and any techno-barbs or custodes, or anyone with nice flashy bitz

Well, no, not really. A Daemon Primarch is a Daemon. The Necrons do not understand the Warp, there's no way even Trazyn and teleport into the Eye of Terror and somehow over-power a Daemon as powerful as Lorgar.