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Estimating ranges from a tabletop game is not a good way to go about it.

As you can calculate all sorts of strange distances due to the scale of it not exactly being to scale.

I doubt the 'earth' template is to scale. It is probably more of an estimation to aid gameplay.

DeathReaper wrote:Estimating ranges from a tabletop game is not a good way to go about it.

As you can calculate all sorts of strange distances due to the scale of it not exactly being to scale.

I doubt the 'earth' template is to scale. It is probably more of an estimation to aid gameplay.

Ever Read the 3rd Ed or the books? In one of them an Warlord titan was seen rampaging through an entire sector it took a long time for the imperium to destroy it.

The estimations? Are you serious? Ever read Dark Hersey, Deathwatch and Battlefleet Gothic?
They give us the things we are talking about
The third ed book gives us a look at how big a bolter 'bolt' is. And how effective it was.
Its a mini rocket. That can punch through light tank armor.


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DeathReaper wrote:Estimating ranges from a tabletop game is not a good way to go about it.

As you can calculate all sorts of strange distances due to the scale of it not exactly being to scale.

I doubt the 'earth' template is to scale. It is probably more of an estimation to aid gameplay.

That is to scale...

Never use the Death Star as an example, it was destroyed by around 20 fighters at peak efficiency, it could not pierce the shields of certain craft, it's out gunned by most craft, Orks would infest it, Imperium would crush it, Eldar disable it and all the other races are fully capable of defeating it.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Tadashi wrote:Let's stick to Star Wars/Star Trek vs. 40k.
I don't want to compare 40k to Star Wars since the Tau are the only ones Star Trek is capable of handling.
Q, meet this guy:

We're all in power armor and it is beautiful.

No, Mr. Borg and friends, We expect you to die.

*sigh* What part of OMNIPOTENT do you not get? Winning against beings that powerful doesn't happen unless you have some of them on your side.

And the gods of 40k can't alter reality? The Emperor, the Chaos Powers, and the old Eldar Gods do that on a regular basis, popping warp storms and twisting the fabric of reality apart and overlapping it with the insanity of the warp. And the C'tan have been described as omnipotent as well.

The C'tan were defeated by their own slaves. The Q travel through time on numerous occations, turn people into amoebae just because and teleports a Borg Cube from across the galaxy. They're LITERALLY omnipotent, bar being able to harm eachother. You can't win against beings that transcend time and space. If the C'tan were on that level of power, why would they EVER fall to their slaves in the first place. Likewise, if the Emperor was that powerful, why do the Chaos Gods exist at all?

Again, OMNIPOTENT. Per definition impossible to beat.

Ever heard of the Great Game? The gods don't use their full power since they're not participants in the galactic wars and crises, just onlookers who reward whom they see fit. Hell, even the Emperor probably has been sitting on the same table and playing the Game since the HH, even if His body stays locked up on the Throne ("I'm retired." - the Emperor).

blood reaper wrote:Never use the Death Star as an example, it was destroyed by around 20 fighters at peak efficiency, it could not pierce the shields of certain craft, it's out gunned by most craft, Orks would infest it, Imperium would crush it, Eldar disable it and all the other races are fully capable of defeating it.

Indeed, really the Imperium it's self could field ships almost as large as the Death Star in such numbers as to make any use of it pointless, as it would be mobbed and killed at first use. Not to even mention that the Imperium as my signature says is willing to go to any length in order to win, large fleet entering system? Warp rest of the ships out and leave one behind to detonate it's warp engines. Enjoy Hell Imperial/ Republic fleet.

Also never mind the fact that the Imperium could sit it's fleets just with in any point in a system and attack the enemy fleet before it can even get into range.

blood reaper wrote:Never use the Death Star as an example, it was destroyed by around 20 fighters at peak efficiency, it could not pierce the shields of certain craft, it's out gunned by most craft, Orks would infest it, Imperium would crush it, Eldar disable it and all the other races are fully capable of defeating it.

They don't want to see what they don't want to see.
*Imperium
- Space Marines are better assault troops and spearheads
- Imperial Guard are better equipped (lots and lots of tanks) and fight wars better
- Imperial Navy have inferior FTL but have the same advantages as the Imperial Guard, not to mention having weapons that outrange SW ships (lance and nova cannons) or are more versatile (torpedoes)
- Titans can crack defenses like nothing else
- Sisters are more badass the Jedi/Sith

*Chaos
- see Space Marines for Chaos Space Marines
- daemons and sorcery...need I say any more

*Tyranids
- nom nom nom

*Eldar
- the Webway gives them superior FTL
- can cut enemy forces to pieces much more easily than even SM or CSM

*Dark Eldar
- see Eldar

*Orks
- WAAAAAGGGHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...need I say any more

*Tau
- can conquer the Star Trek galaxy with ease

*Necrons
- have technology even superior to the Eldar and are effectively immortal

*Others
- 40k has gods who have never really used their omnipotence to the full since they're onlookers, not participants, and if they wanted too, could turn reality inside out on a whim
- psychic abilities (of any race) are superior to Force abilities

blood reaper wrote:Never use the Death Star as an example, it was destroyed by around 20 fighters at peak efficiency, it could not pierce the shields of certain craft, it's out gunned by most craft, Orks would infest it, Imperium would crush it, Eldar disable it and all the other races are fully capable of defeating it.

I recall one of the Hive Fleets eating a moon-sized station whole

Oh god, I almost died laughing when I thought what would happen if the Galactic Republic or the Federation from Star Trek tried to reason or try peace talks with the Orks!


So, in the news today we morn the death of Senator Amidala ( Sp ), after she got her head impaled on a so called "dis ere' pointy stick" while trying to negotiate peace with Warboss Gahz can't spell the rest of his name.

Hehe, I love imagining the Orks VS any other universe.

Are you kidding? Warp storms would be popping up all over the place as the gods laugh like hell in the warp.

Well played!

Tadashi wrote:Are you kidding? Warp storms would be popping up all over the place as the gods laugh like hell in the warp.

Well played!

"Da boyz will never believe dis, a small little humie girl comes walkin' up to me from er' right fancy chrome Cruiser, which I didn't blow up because I thought'd make a right nice throne for when I takes over this ere' little mess, so she says all this gak about "peace" and Im thinkin' oh dis wont be no fun, the humie's in da other galaxy are far more fighty' and fun." "So's I put er' head on me pointy stick, NOT LIKE THAT YEH GITZ!, and all da Humies just got all sad, bunch of grots they are."

My sides hurt...from trying to contain the laughter. I'm guessing the other galaxy is 40k, since Humans there love to fight almost as much as the Orks...the warp storms are getting worse as the gods keep laughing.

Tadashi wrote:My sides hurt...from trying to contain the laughter. I'm guessing the other galaxy is 40k, since Humans there love to fight almost as much as the Orks...the warp storms are getting worse as the gods keep laughing.

Yes, they would be, as the Warboss I pictured in my mind being Ghaz. I love comedic value of the Orks, they bring a lot of humor into a very dark universe.

This being that the Humans in Warhammer 40k love to fight, and kill. And put up a right good fight for da boyz and always have lots of bitz and loot.

The pansy weepy Humans from the other galaxys.......not so much.

Just imagine the wookies vs the orks wow. I think they might actually tie... Until the orkz get bored and bring a bigger waghh!

Dem wookiez still gotz a lotz a fight in dem, boyz! Get em, and chop em up gud! Show em dat orkz is da best! WAAAAAGGGHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tadashi wrote:Dem wookiez still gotz a lotz a fight in dem, boyz! Get em, and chop em up gud! Show em dat orkz is da best! WAAAAAGGGHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Who would win? Ghaz' the Warboss, or the Emperor from Star Wars.

I think everyone would, really.

A nudder humie to kill? Dis keepz gettin better an better! Smellz ripe, dis one does. Get em red cloakz, boyz! The boss is mine! WAAAAAGGGHH!!!!!!!!!!!

just imagine Orks looted AT-AT.........

Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:just imagine Orks looted AT-AT.........

Imagine a Looted Death Star.

The Dakka would be glorious.

Kaldor wrote:BFG estimates. The 'earth' template is around 20cm across. The Earth itself is around 24,000kms in diameter. Making 10cm in game the equivalent of around 12,000kms. I'm assuming a game turn of BFG is around one hour, although it could be much less. Cruising speed for an Imperial Cruiser is 20cm, or 24,000kms per hour. Weapons ranges are between 30 and 60cm, or 36,000 and 72,000kms, with Nova Cannon ranging up to 150cm or 180,000kms.

Calcs aren't canon; I care little for them. Official sources only, please.

Jeez, all a Thawk would have to do is open its front cargo bay, jam the Suncrusher inside it, and the fly back to base.

It wouldn't be able to in the less than ten seconds it would take for the Sun Crusher to make the sun go supernova. You're reaching.

Or just send some Marines EVA to open up the thing with chainfists. Best case scenario the thing gets to detonate a single star, before the ship itself is captured and rendered useless.

"Detonate a single star" would result in the destruction of Terra and the Mechanicum, which would cripple the entirety of the Imperium.

And your Galaxy gun? Prognosticars predict it's location and firing arc, and the Inquisition deals with it before it even has a chance to fire. Game, set and match.

Prognosticars predict and find things based upon their warp activity. The Empire does not use the warp for anything, ergo it can't be tracked by such. Not to mention, if they COULD find its exact location, it would take the imperium YEARS to reach it with their slow ass ftl travel. By the time they even got there the Galaxy Gun would have made a hyperspace jump to a different part of the galaxy years prior. Try again.

BlaxicanX wrote:

Kaldor wrote:BFG estimates. The 'earth' template is around 20cm across. The Earth itself is around 24,000kms in diameter. Making 10cm in game the equivalent of around 12,000kms. I'm assuming a game turn of BFG is around one hour, although it could be much less. Cruising speed for an Imperial Cruiser is 20cm, or 24,000kms per hour. Weapons ranges are between 30 and 60cm, or 36,000 and 72,000kms, with Nova Cannon ranging up to 150cm or 180,000kms.

Calcs aren't canon; I care little for them.

Jeez, all a Thawk would have to do is open its front cargo bay, jam the Suncrusher inside it, and the fly back to base.

It wouldn't be able to in the less than ten seconds it would take for the Sun Crusher to make the sun go supernova. You're reaching.

Or just send some Marines EVA to open up the thing with chainfists. Best case scenario the thing gets to detonate a single star, before the ship itself is captured and rendered useless.

"Detonate a single star" would result in the destruction of Terra and the Mechanicum, which would cripple the entirety of the Imperium.

And your Galaxy gun? Prognosticars predict it's location and firing arc, and the Inquisition deals with it before it even has a chance to fire. Game, set and match.

Prognosticars predict and find things based upon their warp activity. The Empire uses none. Try again.

And detonating a retribution class Battleship would send everything in the enter Sector plunging into the warp.

Literally, for every ship the Empire kills they just have a bigger and bigger problem on their hands.

No to mention how on Earth you would get even the smallest craft anywhere near Holy Terra with out authorization?

The warp reacts to living things. So prognosticars can still find your Galaxy Gun. And the moment the Sun Crusher enters the Terran solar system, the pilot's dead, brain fried by a psychic lance, courtesy of His Majesty, the Emperor.

"Good work, Emperor." - Tzeentch
"Thanks. Now we can get back to the Great Game." - Emperor
"Just as Planned." - Tzeentch
"CAN WE JUST GET BACK TO THE GREAT GAME!" - Khorne

Tadashi wrote:The warp reacts to living things. So prognosticars can still find your Galaxy Gun. And the moment the Sun Crusher enters the Terran solar system, the pilot's dead, brain fried by a psychic lance, courtesy of His Majesty, the Emperor.

"Good work, Emperor." - Tzeentch
"Thanks. Now we can get back to the Great Game." - Emperor
"Just as Planned." - Tzeentch
"CAN WE JUST GET BACK TO THE GREAT GAME!" - Khorne

I don't get how people think you can just bring a fleet right near Holy Terra with out having the very heavens come crashing down on you as the Imperium did everything it could to wipe you from exsistance.

The warp would come crashing down. The gods won't let anyone near Terra. The Game's too valuable.

Alexzandvar wrote:
And detonating a retribution class Battleship would send everything in the enter Sector plunging into the warp.

That's nice. Good thing a Retribution class battleship can be destroyed from the other side of the galaxy.

Literally, for every ship the Empire kills they just have a bigger and bigger problem on their hands.

And with Terra and Mars destroyed the Imperium would cave in on itself. The Empire wouldn't need to destroy any ships.

No to mention how on Earth you would get even the smallest craft anywhere near Holy Terra with out authorization?

Are you really going to make me repeat myself? What part of "The Galaxy Gun can blow up planets that are on the other side of the galaxy" is so hard to understand? The range of its beam is literally "from one side of the galaxy to the other". The Galaxy Gun doesn't have to be anywhere near Terra. It can be ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE GALAXY FROM TERRA, and blow it up with a push of a button. The Sun Crusher, MAKES SUNS GO SUPERNOVA. It doesn't have to be anywhere NEAR Terra. Pop out of hyperspace a thousand miles from the sun, press a button, and boom the sun goes supernova. Five seconds; no where near Terra. I don't understand why I need to repeat these things.

As for Tadashi's tripe about the Grey Knights. Here's the quote about the Prognosticar's abilities.

"As they are sensitive to the fluctuations to the Warp which allows them to detect the psychic tremors that are inherent in daemonic incursions into realspace. Thus, a Prognosticar is capable of determining the location and severity of such an event."

Prognosticars are used to track DEMONS. A "daemonic incursion" is referring to when a daemon or daemons enter real space from the warp. THAT'S what they are able to pick up, hence the Grey Knights specialization in hunting daemons. THe prognosticars don't just sense "everything in the galaxy" by feeling it in the warp.

BlaxicanX wrote:

Alexzandvar wrote:
And detonating a retribution class Battleship would send everything in the enter Sector plunging into the warp.

That's nice. Good thing a Retribution class battleship can be destroyed from the other side of the galaxy.

Literally, for every ship the Empire kills they just have a bigger and bigger problem on their hands.

And with Terra and Mars destroyed the Imperium would cave in on itself. The Empire wouldn't need to destroy any ships.

No to mention how on Earth you would get even the smallest craft anywhere near Holy Terra with out authorization?

Are you really going to make me repeat myself? What part of "The Galaxy Gun can blow up planets that are on the other side of the galaxy" is so hard to understand? The range of its beam is literally "from one side of the galaxy to the other". The Galaxy Gun doesn't have to be anywhere near Terra. It can be ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE GALAXY FROM TERRA, and blow it up with a push of a button. The Sun Crusher, MAKES SUNS GO SUPERNOVA. It doesn't have to be anywhere NEAR Terra. Pop out of hyperspace a thousand miles from the sun, press a button, and boom the sun goes supernova. Five seconds; no where near Terra. I don't understand why I need to repeat these things.

As for Tadashi's tripe about the Grey Knights. Here's the quote about the Prognosticar's abilities.

"As they are sensitive to the fluctuations to the Warp which allows them to detect the psychic tremors that are inherent in daemonic incursions into realspace. Thus, a Prognosticar is capable of determining the location and severity of such an event."

Prognosticars are used to track DEMONS. A "daemonic incursion" is referring to when a daemon or daemons enter real space from the warp. THAT'S what they are able to pick up, hence the Grey Knights specialization in hunting daemons. THe prognosticars don't just sense "everything in the galaxy" by feeling it in the warp.

Hey mate your actually wrong. They may produce the stars. But the pilot of the sun crusher would die instantly from an unknown anamoly called the entire armada of segmuntum solaris and there was only one that was destroyed. You have ignored the posts of others. Please read information given. Death stars are horrible. And if you try and destroy the terran system that is next to impossible.

Asherian Command wrote:
Hey mate your actually wrong. They may produce the stars. But the pilot of the sun crusher would die instantly from an unknown anamoly called the entire armada of segmuntum solaris

I wasn't aware that the "entire Segmentum Armada" chills out next to the sun. Lol. You're funny.

You have ignored the posts of others.

I ignored them because they were made by people who don't know anything about Star Wars.

And if you try and destroy the terran system that is next to impossible.

Explain how the Imperium would prevent the Galaxy Gun would destroy Terra or get out my face, man. Hard to believe you'd tell me not to ignore other peoples posts while in the same breath you don't respond to anything in my post. C'mon, man.

Blax you know when you argue for sw on a 40k forums your fighting a 90 degree battle and might as well give up. But for that thing about sun whatever the emporor could just have it detonate inside the suncrusher and the Q would be crushed by the gods of 40k oh and another thing about the suncrusher if you let the necrons know where you are they can blow up your entire system also with their even more advanced weaponry ot just outright blow up all of starwars without the help of gods.

BlaxicanX wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:
Hey mate your actually wrong. They may produce the stars. But the pilot of the sun crusher would die instantly from an unknown anamoly called the entire armada of segmuntum solaris

I wasn't aware that the "entire Segmentum Armada" chills out next to the sun. Lol. You're funny.

You have ignored the posts of others.

I ignored them because they were made by people who don't know anything about Star Wars.

And if you try and destroy the terran system that is next to impossible.

Explain how the Imperium would prevent the Galaxy Gun would destroy Terra or get out my face, man. Hard to believe you'd tell me not to ignore other peoples posts while in the same breath you don't respond to anything in my post. C'mon, man.

Sorry but I am responding to things that I actually can debate. My idea is that the starwars univeres's sun crusher is already destroyed. The galaxy gun would get pysker pentrated and alpha pyskers unleashed destroying the gun and ending this weapon's life. Btw I played Starwars video games and rouge leader and they were destroyed by ion cannons which is the equalvent of a plasma cannon. Which is utterly useless against an Imperial Armada.
The cobra fighters are released in their hundreds (Source BFG) where they slaughter entire captial ships and make quick work of the star destroyers and the rebel forces. Then the ground battle is immedately lost. The gaxaly cannon in ruins as the planet killer immedately one shot kills it. The black stone fortresses destroy the entire corusant and the life eater virus unleashed on the Storm Troopers eating through their armor and decimating the forces of the Empire before they could even launch an attack. The necrons unleash 2 world engines destroying hundreds of thousands.
The Tyranids nom nom the fleets and the Eldar annoy the crap out of the super star destroyers and predicting their movements.
And Papa nurgle hugs his new embracement of nurgle storm troopers and dark troopers as they fall to disease. The star cannon takes time to power up and it was stopped by a jedi if I am not mistaken.
BTW this is just persuming that the orks attacked first. Which would leave a looted super star destroyer and a looted death star XD


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Sierk wrote:Blax you know when you argue for sw on a 40k forums your fighting a 90 degree battle and might as well give up. But for that thing about sun whatever the emporor could just have it detonate inside the suncrusher and the Q would be crushed by the gods of 40k oh and another thing about the suncrusher if you let the necrons know where you are they can blow up your entire system also with their even more advanced weaponry ot just outright blow up all of starwars without the help of gods.

actually the Q would win, We have already debated that 40k loses against the Q. But wins against everything else in Star Trek.

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:In that case lets use the star wars rules for a table top war game... Oh wait. There isnt one! Wh40k wins by defalt. No contrst. Thank you Andrew1975.

And no in the game guardsmen dont drop like flies. Jeez man, again that was early fluff. Back when marines where also cops. And t3. Now the Imperial Guard is one of the best armies, and if we go by the current game as you suggest, the Guard is an elite mechinized army, capable of wiping out all that stand before them. So again if we use your view that we use game play, the clones are wiped out by a barrage of missiles, as gunships drop elite troops off, massacuring the survivers, then a wall of chimeras wipe out the rest. Which isnt that different from the fluff...

There was one, you may not be old enough to remember, but there was one.

Have you read 40k fluff? The Books? Dan Abnett? Ciaphas cain? Hell even in the Game Space Marine just a couple of them hold an entire gate against orks. I'm sorry mate but Stormtroopers = Space Marines is just insane you can't compare a Super Human Soldier to a guy that is cannon fodder. We have discussed this to death.

Have you read the fluff. I mean it's all so subjective. I've read books where Marines are killed by guardsmen.....in HTH! If you read IG books they are the best, if you read marine books they are gods. If you read eldar books they cut them both down like nothing. It's all just pandering to the reader.

Yes Guard can be a good army....A guardsman can never be more then a sacrifice.

Tadashi wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Tadashi wrote:Let's stick to Star Wars/Star Trek vs. 40k.
I don't want to compare 40k to Star Wars since the Tau are the only ones Star Trek is capable of handling.
Q, meet this guy:

We're all in power armor and it is beautiful.

No, Mr. Borg and friends, We expect you to die.

*sigh* What part of OMNIPOTENT do you not get? Winning against beings that powerful doesn't happen unless you have some of them on your side.

And the gods of 40k can't alter reality? The Emperor, the Chaos Powers, and the old Eldar Gods do that on a regular basis, popping warp storms and twisting the fabric of reality apart and overlapping it with the insanity of the warp. And the C'tan have been described as omnipotent as well.

The C'tan were defeated by their own slaves. The Q travel through time on numerous occations, turn people into amoebae just because and teleports a Borg Cube from across the galaxy. They're LITERALLY omnipotent, bar being able to harm eachother. You can't win against beings that transcend time and space. If the C'tan were on that level of power, why would they EVER fall to their slaves in the first place. Likewise, if the Emperor was that powerful, why do the Chaos Gods exist at all?

Again, OMNIPOTENT. Per definition impossible to beat.

Ever heard of the Great Game? The gods don't use their full power since they're not participants in the galactic wars and crises, just onlookers who reward whom they see fit. Hell, even the Emperor probably has been sitting on the same table and playing the Game since the HH, even if His body stays locked up on the Throne ("I'm retired." - the Emperor).

You're missing the point entirely.

The fact that the Chaos Gods can be distracted and divert their power means they are not omnipotent. If they were, they could play the Great Game and still be capable of being unbeatable in real space. The fact that they can lose battles and wars is an indicator that they're not omnipotent. A Q, however, could erase the Warp and the Imperium and even the whole galaxy from existence by clicking its fingers.