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Melissia wrote:Still not respected enough to be put in leadership positions, which wouldn't really leave humans satisfied, heh.

Well, the article did say they were content. I suppose it's better to be a Gue'vesa Trooper than to have a chance to become an Imperial Guard Sergeant. On the other hand, humans integrated into the Tau Empire may not know that the Imperium tends to segragate its people into castes just as much. Some sort of revolutionary movement amongst young humans who, unlike their ancestors, have no idea how good they live and how the Imperium actually looks like, but favour it on the grounds of it being run by humans alone (possibly furthered by Ecclesiarchy infiltrators) would be an interesting idea, I think.

I've also seen fanworks regarding humans in higher positions of the Tau hierarchy, but personally I don't think that meshes well with the theme of their Empire. Even though they seem to allow inducted races leadership and representation on a small scale (Kroot Shapers, Vespid Strain Leaders, Human Gue'vesa'ui), the Ethereals are the ones truly in control - and Gue'vesa does mean "Helper", making human troops limited to a subservient supporting role.
It'd be interesting to see how their colonies would be run in accordance with the vision of the GW writers, though. For now, I like to think that they'd have some sort of mixed government with a human representative/advisor, but there's also an Ethereal who can veto or has to approve everything. A little like the occupied territories during the European colonial age.

Oh, here's the Gue'vesa article, by the way: http://web.archive.org/web/20080420071331/http://uk.games-workshop.com/tau/tau-auxiliaries/

Somehow, the best way I can think of the Tau can control so many races that under normal circumstances would kill each other is through subliminal messaging. I mean, why would Humans even want to live with aliens. I mean, ever since the Age of Strife, Mankind's xenophobia is basically second-nature. Even those 'language-helms' somehow remind me of mind-control helmets I saw in Macross 7.

Humans aren't born with a preference, they are conditions by the imperium to hate xenos, the first ones to join see it as a join or die situation, while their descendants will have been conditioned to favor the tau empire over their unenlightened brothers in the imperium.

Tadashi wrote:I mean, ever since the Age of Strife, Mankind's xenophobia is basically second-nature.

It's a matter of education. Or indoctrination, if you will. You don't need mind control if you simply teach people what they are supposed to believe - this goes for the IoM just as much as it goes for the Tau Empire.

There's sufficient examples for this in the real world, too. Stuff like racism, nationalism or sexism is more cultural than genetic. All of it has to do with our instincts (the drive to explore, conquer and dominate), but in the end all that matters is how you deal with them. For what it's worth, poverty and envy seem to act as a catalyst for all these negative traits, as people begin looking for scapegoats to blame and victims to dominate/exploit. Remove the poverty and the envy, and your civilization is much less likely to develop xenophobic tendencies (see various non-hostile indigenious cultures). There's pride, too, but that bit is even easier to deal with if you simply refocus their cultural identity from "we are humans" to "we are citizens of the great Tau Empire". For what it's worth, the Tau do have the psychological "advantage" of these humans having been left behind by their own Imperium with only the Tau to care for them, and the treatment they were subjected to was surprisingly gentle, compared to what they expected would happen thanks to Imperial propaganda (and what they knew would have happened if it had been the other way around). A pretty good start.

Frankly I am surprised that Tau trust Humans at all to integrate them to their empire.
Knowing our history, we would have to rebel some time after. Humans are like that - they don't suffer others being in charge of them.

I am even more surprised that they allow Humans to preach the Imperial Creed in Tau Empire. And we all know from Siege of Vraks how that can be used to ignite rebellion.

I don't know but I think that they would allow Human psykers to live and to experiment with their powers. Daemon invasion anyone? Note that even if original Human colony don't have psykers one must be born someday and who say that Chaos won't use it to transport Daemons onto that world?

Brother Coa wrote:Frankly I am surprised that Tau trust Humans at all to integrate them to their empire.
Knowing our history, we would have to rebel some time after. Humans are like that - they don't suffer others being in charge of them.

I am even more surprised that they allow Humans to preach the Imperial Creed in Tau Empire. And we all know from Siege of Vraks how that can be used to ignite rebellion.

I don't know but I think that they would allow Human psykers to live and to experiment with their powers. Daemon invasion anyone? Note that even if original Human colony don't have psykers one must be born someday and who say that Chaos won't use it to transport Daemons onto that world?

Well they could try sterilization. You allow them to live and benefit from the GG, but you also make sure they don't over populate and put the other members of the collective at risk. It's all for the GG.

Melissia wrote:The most well known example right now is in Codex: Grey Knights.

The Jokaero are a Xeno race that is an Imperial protectorate.

Could be wrong here but I thought that the IoM used a two-stage process for this:-

1 Is the xeno species sapient?

Y: Purge!

N: See #2;

2 Is the xeno species useful to the IoM?

Y: Exploit it

N: No immediate action required, but purge it eventually just to be on the safe side (see the disturbing case of the tau to illustrate what happens when you don't do this in a timely fashion).

Clearly there will be some room for fudge-ing in the definition of 'sapient' should usefulness be immense but sapience border-line. The Jokaero have the great good fortune to be No (...) Yes!+++++, so they're a Protectorate of the IoM.

I'm doubtful that there are any sapient-xeno IoM Protectorates to be found, whether useful or not.

tsz52 wrote:

Melissia wrote:The most well known example right now is in Codex: Grey Knights.

The Jokaero are a Xeno race that is an Imperial protectorate.

Could be wrong here but I thought that the IoM used a two-stage process for this:-

1 Is the xeno species sapient?

Y: Purge!

N: See #2;

2 Is the xeno species useful to the IoM?

Y: Exploit it

N: No immediate action required, but purge it eventually just to be on the safe side (see the disturbing case of the tau to illustrate what happens when you don't do this in a timely fashion).

Clearly there will be some room for fudge-ing in the definition of 'sapient' should usefulness be immense but sapience border-line. The Jokaero have the great good fortune to be No (...) Yes!+++++, so they're a Protectorate of the IoM.

I'm doubtful that there are any sapient-xeno IoM Protectorates to be found, whether useful or not.

You sir, have got it. The Jokaero don't qualify as Sapiant-enough to purge (yet are massively useful) and voila: Imperium's only protectorate where they protect the aliens.

The Imperium doesn't destroy every sapient race it comes across. Just the hostile ones.

It just so happens taht most alien races are hostile by the Imperium's definition of hostile.

If memory serves, the Tau word for greater good is Mon'Tau (Though I may be completely wrong) so that means that the Tau means either 'greater' or 'good. Or I'm wrong. Cheerio with the trolling.

Mon'tau is their word for the time before the etherials saved the race from self extermination, it their closest concept to hell on earth and is feared above all else. Tau'va means greater good. Ko'vash tau'va is for the greater good.

Melissia wrote:The Imperium doesn't destroy every sapient race it comes across. Just the hostile ones.

It just so happens taht most alien races are hostile by the Imperium's definition of hostile.

The IoM are the hostile ones. I don't know why you insist on trying to portray The Imperium as friendly.
You know who's a good example? The Tau. They tried to ethnically cleanse the Tau when they discovered the ability to wear animal skins. The reason given why: Routine.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:The IoM are the hostile ones. I don't know why you insist on trying to portray The Imperium as friendly.

I didn't try to portray the Imperium as friendly.

Just sane and logical in its actions.

Melissia wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:The IoM are the hostile ones. I don't know why you insist on trying to portray The Imperium as friendly.

I didn't try to portray the Imperium as friendly.

Just sane and logical in its actions.

And in a galaxy like 40k the Imperium's xenocidal policies are sane and logical. Quit trying to "Tau" them up.

Melissia wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:The IoM are the hostile ones. I don't know why you insist on trying to portray The Imperium as friendly.

I didn't try to portray the Imperium as friendly.

Just sane and logical in its actions.

I don't think you are meant to do that.

Lynata wrote:

Fralethepalewhale wrote:

Melissia wrote:

Harriticus wrote:Even though the Tau are hardly 100% innocent, they're still a helluva better then anyone else and I'd much rather live under Tau rule. I stand by that.

Until you're put in to a slave camp and have your balls cut off so you can't breed, right?

I thought that was only in the Dawn of War series, where does it actually say that in the fluff? Unless your counting DOW as your fluff.

It's all fluff. But fluff contradicts other fluff fairly often. According to Gav Thorpe, there is no distinction in importance or "truthness" between studio material and licensed productions - they are all just different interpretations of the same 'verse, none being more valid than the other, and you're supposed to pick what you like, or come up with your own ideas.

Though even in DoW it wasn't quite stated this dramatically. Not that this would not mean that one couldn't simply take it that way if he or she so wished.

I would be hesitant of regarding Black Library and what not as 100% canon, and outright dismissive of the DoW series as canon. In my opinion, the only reliable source of fluff is the GW codices. Black Library books are often times contradictory, even if they are by the same author: Dan Abnett's Gaunt's Ghosts series portrays Imperial Guardsmen as being able to fight Space Marines, while Brothers of the Snake describes 11 Space Marines completely annihilating thousands upon thousands of Dark Eldar. The DoW series... isn't exactly fluff accurate, to say the least. One scene in the series involves a Guardsmen telling his commander "Sir, a shipment of 100 Baneblades has gone out to serve-". The commander was asking about how many Baneblades they had. This implies that they lost 100 Baneblades, or were going to get these Baneblades, but didn't. Yeah... a hundred Baneblades. I don't need to say anything else.

This is just one example: there are numerous other fluff inaccuracies in the DoW series. It's just a video game, which is secondary canon. This is similar to the newly released Space Marine, which, if taken at face value as fluff, means that a Space Marine Captain can hack his way through a Warboss, probably a company's worth of Iron Warriors, and a Daemon Prince pretty much one right after the other.

I digress, this isn't a thread about what qualifies as canon. It's about the Tau. The Tau have a lot of ranged firepower, but even they can be put down with a bayonet charge and enough men (yeah, you know what regiment I'm into).

The grimdarkest part of the Tau is even with the most enlightened faction in the entire 40k universe things like massacres happen. No matter how shinny the ideals everyone in the universe is capable of atrocity and that my friends is the grimdark in a way that is more unsettling than any Orc "Waaagh".

Melissia wrote:Still not respected enough to be put in leadership positions, which wouldn't really leave humans satisfied, heh.

Tau have many wars with humans. So not making humans lead their armies is a minimum security measure. Esp. as even Tau know how often humans betray other people and become corrupt. They are not THAT naive. That's also why fanatised human prisoners of war are not allowed to do what they want but held in prisoner camps. On mining planets like Taros, where everybody works in mines, prisoners of war also work in mines, but that's not slavery. Otherwise you would still have state-sanctioned slavery in USA.

BTW have a look at my avatar and you see a general of the Tau Empire army.

Kroothawk wrote:
Tau have many wars with humans. So not making humans lead their armies is a minimum security measure. Esp. as even Tau know how often humans betray other people and become corrupt. They are not THAT naive. That's also why fanatised human prisoners of war are not allowed to do what they want but held in prisoner camps. On mining planets like Taros, where everybody works in mines, prisoners of war also work in mines, but that's not slavery. Otherwise you would still have state-sanctioned slavery in USA.

Japanese prisoners of war in WW2 that were in American work camps did nothing and British and US prisoners of war in German WW2 camp that did nothing is not slavery.
However, Polish, Yugoslavian and Soviet prisoners of war that worked to death in German camps in WW2 were slaves to Nazi Germany, miners on Taros also work until they die.

BTW have a look at my avatar and you see a general of the Tau Empire army.

BTW, you see this picture and you see a hero to the Human race, ready to defend her and vanquish it's foes:



Back to topic at hand: one other thing that makes Tau grimdark is no individualism except Etherials. Tau born in one cast is deemed to the service until death in it, without any hope to transfer to another caste or to become Leader of the people himself ( like FW to rise and became Etherial. Humans have grater advantage here, take Creed for example who rose from whiteshield to become Lord Castelian of Cadia. ).

He's still not human, Kroothawk.

It's still racism. The Tau are often just as racist as the Imperium, if not moreso for they enslave, which is worse than the death the Imperium usually offers.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:And in a galaxy like 40k the Imperium's xenocidal policies are sane and logical.

Exactly. The Imperium is xenocidal because aliens are hostile as a general rule.

But there is plenty of evidence that the Imperium DOES work with non-hostile xenos. For example, here was a race mentioned to have worked with the Imperial Navy, its own navy teaming up with the IN to fight a Tyranid fleet-- then they left on good terms and the Imperium did not pursue a xenocidal campaign against them (no, I'm not talking about BA vs Crons, it was a minor race which has yet to be referenced again to my knowledge).

It's just that there's not many xeno races like that to begin with.

Brother Coa wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:
Tau have many wars with humans. So not making humans lead their armies is a minimum security measure. Esp. as even Tau know how often humans betray other people and become corrupt. They are not THAT naive. That's also why fanatised human prisoners of war are not allowed to do what they want but held in prisoner camps. On mining planets like Taros, where everybody works in mines, prisoners of war also work in mines, but that's not slavery. Otherwise you would still have state-sanctioned slavery in USA.

Japanese prisoners of war in WW2 that were in American work camps did nothing and British and US prisoners of war in German WW2 camp that did nothing is not slavery.
However, Polish, Yugoslavian and Soviet prisoners of war that worked to death in German camps in WW2 were slaves to Nazi Germany, miners on Taros also work until they die.

Since using POWs as labour was, with some stipulations ( no officers, no war related work, work had to be safe ) permited by the Geneva convention all the major nations which participated in WW2 used smoe pf their POWs to lessen their labour shortages. So, if you say that british and us prisoners in german camps or japanese prisoners in american camps did nothing then you are plainly wrong.
Of course you are right when you mention that east european POWs in german camps were, unlike their comrades from the western allies, worked to death.

Sadly you are once again wrong when you claim that the POWs on Taros were worked to death. All we know is that they were made to work in the mines. We have no idea on their living conditions ( is the work save? ) and no idea if and when they are freed. Their fate after the Taros campaign remains open for speculation. If you wish to believe that they were worked to death then you are of course free to do so. Just keep in mind that there is no fluff to support this believe.


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Melissia wrote:He's still not human, Kroothawk.

It's still racism. The Tau are often just as racist as the Imperium, if not moreso for they enslave, which is worse than the death the Imperium usually offers.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:And in a galaxy like 40k the Imperium's xenocidal policies are sane and logical.

Exactly. The Imperium is xenocidal because aliens are hostile as a general rule.

But there is plenty of evidence that the Imperium DOES work with non-hostile xenos. For example, here was a race mentioned to have worked with the Imperial Navy, its own navy teaming up with the IN to fight a Tyranid fleet-- then they left on good terms and the Imperium did not pursue a xenocidal campaign against them (no, I'm not talking about BA vs Crons, it was a minor race which has yet to be referenced again to my knowledge).

It's just that there's not many xeno races like that to begin with.

Funnily enough the Cimmeriac, part of Admiral Harroth's fleet, were destroyed by Harroth just five years after they helped to defeat Jormungandr.

KingDeath wrote:
Since using POWs as labour was, with some stipulations ( no officers, no war related work, work had to be safe ) permited by the Geneva convention all the major nations which participated in WW2 used smoe pf their POWs to lessen their labour shortages. So, if you say that british and us prisoners in german camps or japanese prisoners in american camps did nothing then you are plainly wrong

Funny thing is that we know from their stories that they were treated well. Japanese prisoners of war ( I am talking about Japanese that lived in US when war broke out and had to be put away in prisons ). Russians and Yugoslavians had different fate, they worked in German factories and mines and being treated poorly. We to know this from reports of the survivors. Then we have German ghettos etc... ( I know you and Kroothawk are Germans but facts are that your people did some horrifying things during the war to all. Others did to but I think Germans and Japanese will always bee on top. Of course that was the fault of their leaders and not the people - same as we during the 1990's ). And I am glad that you agree with me on work to death.

As for Taros - yes I do believe that they worked to death. Because what would Tau do to them if not use them to their needs?
Give them pension after 30 years work in the mines? Send them back to the Imperium? Treat them like Germans treated Hitler when he was in jail?
One thing is sure - they will probably spend rest of their lives in imprisonment.

Brother Coa wrote:
As for Taros - yes I do believe that they worked to death. Because what would Tau do to them if not use them to their needs?
Give them pension after 30 years work in the mines? Send them back to the Imperium? Treat them like Germans treated Hitler when he was in jail?
One thing is sure - they will probably spend rest of their lives in imprisonment.

You forgot the true fanatic's option, convert them to the Greater Good. There is nothing more pleasing for a true fanatic than to convert a former nonbeliefer to the one, true faith. Even lip service is good enough for the first generation, the second might show genuine faith.
There is little reason why all but the most fanatical Guardsmen would remain defiant if we keep the possible benefits ( freedom, good living conditions, safety ) of joining the Tau in mind.
After all, more or less the same happened after the Damocles Crusade.



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Brother Coa wrote:

KingDeath wrote:
Since using POWs as labour was, with some stipulations ( no officers, no war related work, work had to be safe ) permited by the Geneva convention all the major nations which participated in WW2 used smoe pf their POWs to lessen their labour shortages. So, if you say that british and us prisoners in german camps or japanese prisoners in american camps did nothing then you are plainly wrong

Funny thing is that we know from their stories that they were treated well. Japanese prisoners of war ( I am talking about Japanese that lived in US when war broke out and had to be put away in prisons ). Russians and Yugoslavians had different fate, they worked in German factories and mines and being treated poorly. We to know this from reports of the survivors. Then we have German ghettos etc... ( I know you and Kroothawk are Germans but facts are that your people did some horrifying things during the war to all. Others did to but I think Germans and Japanese will always bee on top. Of course that was the fault of their leaders and not the people - same as we during the 1990's ). And I am glad that you agree with me on work to death.

The point is not that i wish to doubt or justify the poor conditions under which east european POW's had to endure ( for that would be typical right wing historical revisionism which i loath ), my point is merely that using POW's as labour was legal and therefore done by the western allies as well ( just as some western POW's were used to work in german factories, although under generaly much better conditions than their eastern counterparts ). As such the Tau on Taros did nothing unusual ( especialy since we cannot simply assume that the living conditions of their POW's are poor ), even by our standards. The fate of the japanese americans, as lamentable as it is, is no no concern for this discussion since they weren't POWs but interned civilians. German Ghettos had nothing to do whatever with
the entire POW issue but served a totaly different purpose ( although one could argue that the exceptionaly poor treatment of east european POWs ultimately served the same genocidial end that awaited the inhabitants of the Ghettos ). Still, this has very little to do with the Taros POWs.

Your claim that this was the fault of their leaders, although surely meant friendly, is inaccurate. While i am no friend of the collective guilt thesis the opposite of blaming merely the leaders is equaly, or even more, wrong, both for Japan and Germany.

Melissia wrote:He's still not human, Kroothawk.

It's still racism. The Tau are often just as racist as the Imperium, if not moreso for they enslave, which is worse than the death the Imperium usually offers.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:And in a galaxy like 40k the Imperium's xenocidal policies are sane and logical.

Exactly. The Imperium is xenocidal because aliens are hostile as a general rule.

But there is plenty of evidence that the Imperium DOES work with non-hostile xenos. For example, here was a race mentioned to have worked with the Imperial Navy, its own navy teaming up with the IN to fight a Tyranid fleet-- then they left on good terms and the Imperium did not pursue a xenocidal campaign against them (no, I'm not talking about BA vs Crons, it was a minor race which has yet to be referenced again to my knowledge).

It's just that there's not many xeno races like that to begin with.

Nobody said that the IoM doesn't make temporary alliances. That's a very different thing. The IoM will do whatever it takes to survive a crisis and those are field decisions. Don't worry, they'll get around to 'dealing' with those allies later. The encounter reports will be filed with Administratum, and after a million "i"s have been dotted and "T"s crossed those Xenos will be seeing their human friends again.

Many of the actions of the tau can be seen as 'evil' by certain standards, but that doesn't mean the tau themselves deem it as such - this is getting into a really murky area about whose standards we should be using, and this is something that is quite true in real life in many of the same contexts.

Now as far as the sterilizations go - the Tau are big on population control and management. This can range from the planning and organization of cities to control over the reproduction of the inhabitants (Deathwatch RPG even mentions that the sterilizations are a population control measure.) Now to a human this might seem horrific to us - we aren't used to those kinds of restrictions - but it does make a certain sense. Reflect on the dangers of unregulated, rampant reproduction. It can lead to increased pollution, resource exhaustion, overcrowding, and ecological devastation. we've seen that in 40K Hive worlds. So in that light it would make sense for the tau to manage things, and under their 'Greater Good' idea, this is not a nasty, evil act because they are doing what they feel is in the best interests of those within their Empire. For me at least, that's the chilling thing about the tau - they can be nice, and well meaning, but they will also quite deliberately lie, manipulate, annihilate or conquer anyone if they believe it serves the interests of their Greater Good, and they won't see it as wrong because they do think this is in YOUR best interests - whether you think so or not. To them freedom is more of a secondary (or tertiary) concern - it is the whole that matters more. It's an ideology with almost religious force for them, and they almost never question or deviate from it (again it's not evil to them.) But it also means the tau aren't super secret mustache-twirling evil villain types - any more than you can accuse the Imperium of that.

It's also a bit amusing that the Imperium would, if it could pull it off, do the exact same thing with humans that the Tau have done with themselves. The Administratum and Munitorum would LOVE a massive populace of obedient, unthinking people who never question orders and always know their place instinctively.

But at the same time its silly to try to pretend the Tau are all sweetness and light. evne back in third edition they weren't wholly good (I'm pretty sure thre was a story blurb somewhere of a rail rifle mind linkage which fried out the brain of a Fire Warrior and this was considered acceptable losses, for example) but we know from 4th onwards that they weren't.

Cities of Death:


EVIL TAU. Except that its an individual (of high rank) and known to be somehwat of a belligerent sort to begin with - just because an individual might be a nasty piece of work does not condemn the entire race (if it did the Imperium would be in bigger trouble...)

4th edition tau codex


Again 'evil' - but this is the sort of thing that can be justified in the context of 'Greater Good' - it is vital and neccessary to the continuation of the tau Empire and the expansion of the Greater Good, so it by definition cannot be an evil act. Many governments throughout history (even in fairly recent times) do morally questionable things to ensure the survival or continuation of their government - yet I am certain there would be arguemnt over whether that made the governments in question (and the people under those governments) inherently evil.

I would also close by saying I dislike the term 'grimdark' because its an overly simplistic label, and its a rather blatant attempt to oversimplify just what the tau (or any other faction in 40K) are about.

Brother Coa wrote:miners on Taros also work until they die.

I am always amazed how some people feel no shame at all to post made up things as official GW background.

Brother Coa wrote:Back to topic at hand: one other thing that makes Tau grimdark is no individualism except Etherials.

Asian mentality, that doesn't have the Western concept of individualism, is not grimdark.

Melissia wrote:It's still racism. The Tau are often just as racist as the Imperium, if not moreso for they enslave, which is worse than the death the Imperium usually offers.

If an army fights an enemy, and choses to not make a member of the enemy fraction their leader and reveal all military secrets to him, just because he said he is now on your side a year ago, then that is not racism but minimal security requirement. Tau are not that dumb. That said, human armies fighting for Tau usually keep their officers.

Banzaimash wrote:Essentially, the Tau are nice just like Orks are funny, what they do is abhorrent by today's standards, but in the setting they're good relative to everyone else, just like Ork violence is funny in the setting. The Tau may brainwash people, sterilise them and once war has been declared to mercilessly butcher folks. But compare this to the virus bombing of hive cities, the callous expenditure of human life through forlorn hope charges and the destruction of whole planets as part of a scorched earth policy, methods employed by the Imperium, inflicted upon ITSELF. Or the harvesting of life with weapons that strip you down layer by layer or flay you in seconds, the general KILL! MAIM! BURN! thing going for Chaos, the sick b******s of the DE (I won't even delve into what they get up to), the general savagery of the Orks, the blood lust and human sacrifice of the Eldar and the imminent doom that is the Tyranids. Compared to these, the Tau are like rubber ducks.

This made me laugh so hard I may just explode

--------------------------

Brother Coa wrote :
Back to topic at hand: one other thing that makes Tau grimdark is no individualism except Etherials.

So no individualism huh..
Farsight
Brightsword
O'Ralai
Shadowsun
O'Rymr
O'Kais

no differeances here no individualisms, especially Farsight... that guy really can't think for himself.

Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:

So no individualism huh..
Farsight ( only true free Tau )
Brightsword ( dead lunatic, thank the Emperor for taht )
O'Ralai ( loyal servant, no chance of becoming more )
Shadowsun ( loyal servant, no chance of becoming more )
O'Rymr ( loyal servant, no chance of becoming more )
O'Kais ( loyal servant, no chance of becoming more )

Just like in the Imperium - nobody remembers lone generals but everybody remembers Governors Militants. By "Individualism" here I meant chance to advance and became a Leader or whatever you want in your society. Tau can't advance outside their own Caste and that means if someone want's to be an leader like Ethereal from an Earth Caste he can't. Instead those aside Ethereal Caste will always be servants and nothing more.


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Kroothawk wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:miners on Taros also work until they die.

I am always amazed how some people feel no shame at all to post made up things as official GW background.

You are right, I totally forgot that Tau given them pension and private houses as a reward for working liek slaves in those mines
Until you provide me what happened to those captured Guardsman in the end I will assume that they die or submit to the Tau.

Asian mentality, that doesn't have the Western concept of individualism, is not grimdark.

I think that modern Asians would disagree with you. But you are right about North Korea, China and Vietnam at least...there are no individuals there only leaders.

I'm not sure why the same conversation about the Tau always happens in the exact same way.

Purposefully Misinterpreting the fluff. Fan Hate. False Information. Thread Lock

We've had the first three...