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There is no stated piece that he left a corpse. Just that he escaped. Aside from that how can a daemon leave a corpse? Isnt his body/soul one and the same. Kinda the reason their body isnt lying on the ground when they possess people.

Draigo wrote:There is no stated piece that he left a corpse. Just that he escaped. Aside from that how can a daemon leave a corpse? Isnt his body/soul one and the same. Kinda the reason their body isnt lying on the ground when they possess people.

It really helps when you read what has been said you know?

We have said that it was conjecture, our own interpretation using recalled knowledge. However, there is no up to date evidence to say that daemons do not leave corpses.

There is evidence to say that they do: the "Purging of Jollana" story.

Now if you go ahead and read page 4, you'll see how this could be possible.

Iranna.

Lynata wrote:I actually consider it a tiny hobby of mine to look for explanations (read: excuses) for various GW descriptions that, at first glance, may seem a bit weird. But even with this approach one can only get so far until it becomes a hollow, transparent attempt at justifying BS out of principle.

To paraphrase Sigmund Freud, "sometimes a Mary Sue is just a Mary Sue."

Was the Jolanna story contained in the very same Codex as the Draigo bit, by the way? For if it comes from the same guy, then this would easily explain why it differs from the older descriptions. Maybe Ward just didn't bother to read up on the old stuff. Or maybe he just liked his own ideas better. Keep in mind that 40k as a whole has little consistence (though I am used to greater overlap amongst studio material) and the GKs as a whole have changed quite a bit with this book, it seems. Maybe daemons have changed, too.

Not that this would be of any consequence concerning Mortarion, given that - for whatever reason - he was not killed during this encounter in the first place.

Are you saying Studio material is not the holy word of God Lynata!!?! How dare you? HOW DARE YOU!?!

Here's my rule for if fluff is bad; if you saw it in a piece of fan fiction, would you stop reading/type an angry comment?

For this piece of fluff, the answer is yes. Therefore it's bad fluff.

Iranna wrote:

Draigo wrote:There is no stated piece that he left a corpse. Just that he escaped. Aside from that how can a daemon leave a corpse? Isnt his body/soul one and the same. Kinda the reason their body isnt lying on the ground when they possess people.

It really helps when you read what has been said you know?

We have said that it was conjecture, our own interpretation using recalled knowledge. However, there is no up to date evidence to say that daemons do not leave corpses.

There is evidence to say that they do: the "Purging of Jollana" story.

Now if you go ahead and read page 4, you'll see how this could be possible.

Iranna.

It also really helps if you can actually affect what was written you know?

But seeing as GW didnt then I guess you get to swallow it and move on.

Draigo wrote:

It also really helps if you can actually affect what was written you know?

But seeing as GW didnt then I guess you get to swallow it and move on.

So you're complaining that you can't change a few sentences in a codex because you personally cannot fathom any logic in it?

Okay.

Iranna.

Iranna wrote:

Draigo wrote:There is no stated piece that he left a corpse. Just that he escaped. Aside from that how can a daemon leave a corpse? Isnt his body/soul one and the same. Kinda the reason their body isnt lying on the ground when they possess people.

It really helps when you read what has been said you know?

We have said that it was conjecture, our own interpretation using recalled knowledge. However, there is no up to date evidence to say that daemons do not leave corpses.

There is evidence to say that they do: the "Purging of Jollana" story.

Now if you go ahead and read page 4, you'll see how this could be possible.

Iranna.

Doesn't it say in that entry that the daemons were sent back to whence they came?

Regarding daemon corpses, remember that there are two ways for a daemon to manefest in the physical universe.
1) They enter through a warp rift, or are summoned using sorcery, often entering through an area where the barrier between the warp and realspace is weak.
2) They possess someone and twist their body to suit their needs.

In the first instance, the body may or may not exist once the warp rift is shut down, or the energy supporting the summoning disappears. In the second, there would most likely be some physical remains, though what exactly they would end up looking like would be up for grabs. There is a slight issue with the conservation of mass regarding greater daemons and the average target of posession.

They could just be normal possessed that are so heavily mutated that you can't tell the daemon is gone. Though being dead would help with that I guess.

Iranna wrote:

Draigo wrote:

It also really helps if you can actually affect what was written you know?

But seeing as GW didnt then I guess you get to swallow it and move on.

So you're complaining that you can't change a few sentences in a codex because you personally cannot fathom any logic in it?

Okay.

Iranna.

No Im just rather put off to bother reading back by your smug attitude.

Durza wrote:

Doesn't it say in that entry that the daemons were sent back to whence they came?

I believe that they are described as making a "great pyre of daemon carcasses" I'm paraphrasing here however.

Draigo wrote:No Im just rather put off to bother reading back by your smug attitude.

This is the internet. If you can't grow a thicker skin then don't post. Do not use your own faintness of heart as an excuse as to why you refuse to see the previous made points in the argument.

Iranna.

Well Iranna you never actually presented proof and just shot down those that did so you are just argueing for the sake of arguing. Not a matter of skin its a matter of knowing when to cut and run cause you can argue till your blue in the face and never have proof with all the paraphrasing and oh I think so stories.

Draigo Iranna said before that he was speaking hypothetically.
If you've got a problem with that then demand he state sources or ignore him. Its not difficult

Draigo wrote:Well Iranna you never actually presented proof and just shot down those that did so you are just argueing for the sake of arguing. Not a matter of skin its a matter of knowing when to cut and run cause you can argue till your blue in the face and never have proof with all the paraphrasing and oh I think so stories.

There's two severed daemon head trophies in the standard GK box. Those wouldn't exist if the corpses vanished instantly.

Sure there not mutant thingys?

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Sure there not mutant thingys?

No, i think they ARE demons

TheRobotLol wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Sure there not mutant thingys?

No, i think they ARE demons

I have to say, they're probably mutants or possessed, since those guys usually have very Daemon like heads.

But regardless, that doesn't change the fact that Draigo vs. Mortarion is both poorly written, vague and stupid.

Draigo wrote:Well Iranna you never actually presented proof and just shot down those that did so you are just argueing for the sake of arguing. Not a matter of skin its a matter of knowing when to cut and run cause you can argue till your blue in the face and never have proof with all the paraphrasing and oh I think so stories.

As I have explained prior, I have no proof in the form of quotes to present to you, feel free to disregard my interpenetration if you so wish.

I did not "shoot down" those who 'proved' their points, I pointed out the glaring holes and problems with their arguments; that's what you do in a debate, rebut the opposite side.

Also, many of my points were actually backed up with fact, if you'll check, it was my analysis that utilised paraphrasing; something I am quite permitted to do as if I paraphrase, that means that there is something that supports this.

Iranna.

The Gk codex should not be counted as fluff, along with all of the new hot garbage ward writes.

oh and GK is a Dick codex. Why yes, I have had two full squads of wolf guard power-raped by paladins w/librarian walking out of a stormraven with shrouding after i dumped 16 plasma shots and 8 melta shots on it, was I that obvious? lolz

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Draigo wrote:Well Iranna you never actually presented proof and just shot down those that did so you are just argueing for the sake of arguing. Not a matter of skin its a matter of knowing when to cut and run cause you can argue till your blue in the face and never have proof with all the paraphrasing and oh I think so stories.

There's two severed daemon head trophies in the standard GK box. Those wouldn't exist if the corpses vanished instantly.

They are, in fact, deamon heads. I have the sprues right next to me with sprues of deamon heads next to those lol

It is always entertaining to see the Ward apologists contort their brains into a pretzel as they try to justify Draigo.

Granted, I still am not sure why Draigo beating Mortarion is treated as the most outrageous thing ever. Since, well, it is by no means the most impressive thing he has done.

The reason Draigo is hated is not "merely" because he bested a Daemon Primarch in single combat, it is the very unsatisfying way it was written. Draigo, after a hard-fought battle, pushed to the brink of demise and only carrying on due to his heroic resolve, and then besting Mortarion, while still unlikely, could at least be an enjoyable read.

But the way the fluff was written, no sense of epicness or struggle is conveyed, just "Draigo chewed ass and kicked bubblegum bwah". He then goes on to do more things.

Draigo is not so much of a character as he is a force of nature who runs around and does things. Even by 40k codex standards, he is a pretty shallow character, edged out only by arguably Marbo. Maybe. They are about the same to me, personally, albeit Draigo is worse for making what should be some of the most feared beings in the galaxy look downright pitiable in their ineffectualness.

Johnnyboy955 wrote:The Gk codex should not be counted as fluff, along with all of the new hot garbage ward writes.

oh and GK is a Dick codex. Why yes, I have had two full squads of wolf guard power-raped by paladins w/librarian walking out of a stormraven with shrouding after i dumped 16 plasma shots and 8 melta shots on it, was I that obvious? lolz

Well it is fluff, even if you don't agree with it.

Grey Knights may be a strong codex yes, but it's by no means a "dick" codex. Also in your example, that one unit (5 Paladins, 1 Librarian and a Stormraven delivery method) costs 530 points bare, no upgrades. That means that when everything gets upgraded, it stands at about 650-700 points for one unit. That severely limits his support and troops options and you could've taken advantage of this better; Paladins with Librarian support will beat basically any unit in the game.

But I digress.

Iranna.

Iranna wrote:

Johnnyboy955 wrote:The Gk codex should not be counted as fluff, along with all of the new hot garbage ward writes.

oh and GK is a Dick codex. Why yes, I have had two full squads of wolf guard power-raped by paladins w/librarian walking out of a stormraven with shrouding after i dumped 16 plasma shots and 8 melta shots on it, was I that obvious? lolz

Well it is fluff, even if you don't agree with it.

Grey Knights may be a strong codex yes, but it's by no means a "dick" codex. Also in your example, that one unit (5 Paladins, 1 Librarian and a Stormraven delivery method) costs 530 points bare, no upgrades. That means that when everything gets upgraded, it stands at about 650-700 points for one unit. That severely limits his support and troops options and you could've taken advantage of this better; Paladins with Librarian support will beat basically any unit in the game.

But I digress.

Iranna.

They is the dickiest codex around

TheRobotLol wrote:They is the dickiest codex around

No.

Let's not turn this into another "GREY KNIGHT=CHEESEY OP!!!" lock-worthy thread.

Iranna.

Of course there is a simple explanation for this encounter: Draigo was empowered by Tzeentch at the time. This would be the first, but not the last time that the Changer would bestow his favor upon the Grey Knight.

In fact, this explains much about the grand master, including his semi-random nature, and the reason that he never makes any lasting progress, just like Tzeentch on both counts.

If you dont like draigo and 5 pallys get into combat with swarmlord with some of his retinue. Pray you have good luck vs Shadow or a banner cause if not you may be lookin at ws 1 and a whole lot of death. lol

Iranna wrote:

TheRobotLol wrote:They is the dickiest codex around

No.

Let's not turn this into another "GREY KNIGHT=CHEESEY OP!!!" lock-worthy thread.

Iranna.

Agreed.
Especially as, if they really were, they wouldn't get run over by my ork horde and dragged down by sheer weight of numbers.
Hordes are to GK what Kryptonite is to Superman.

As much as I like the Draigo character in the dex, his fluff is over the top. Considering Magnus took down a titan, Horus defeated a primarch and almost took out the big E. I don't see Draigo taking out a Daemon/ Primarch and destroying a city and Daemon forrest and staying alive in the warp.........

I happened, get over it.

Eldrad40k wrote:As much as I like the Draigo character in the dex, his fluff is over the top. Considering Magnus took down a titan, Horus defeated a primarch and almost took out the big E. I don't see Draigo taking out a Daemon/ Primarch and destroying a city and Daemon forrest and staying alive in the warp.........

Thraka killed a titan and hes gotten whooped by many of the IoM heroes grandmaster or otherwise..