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The ideal scenario would be a TH/SS Terminator with FNP. That Terminator would get 2+/5+ against Power Swords, 3+/5+ against Power Axes, 3+ against Power Fists, and of course 2+/5+ against everything else, making the unit essentially insurmountable in combat.

In addition, its attacks would be valid against vehicles, ignore FNP, instant death T3/4, at strike at the same initiative as everything else that could threaten the unit.

Calgar is looking like a beat stick the more and more I think about it.

It's looking like Eldar are the most powerful codex right now. Not sure how long it will last though.

Vibro cannons inflict automatic glancing hits on every model in a 36" line. No Line of sight needed. 3 batteries of vibrocannons means three 36" lines of auto glancing to vehicles ( and a bunch of str 6 hits to non vehicles). Even flyers can't escape the line of glancing hits. Eldar should be able to wreck almost every enemy vehicle by turn 3. How do you not keep 2-3 vehicle out of a 36" line? It can't happen. All vehicles dead by turn 3 from three 150pt units.

Next Eldar excel at laying down huge amounts of fire into foot units. Warp spiders, dire avengers, even guardians will all get buffed with guide and the enemy will be hit with doom. This will force an obscene number of saves on the enemy foot units. Remember the Vibro cannons glanced all the vehicles to death already.

IMO Eldar need a new book and fast to keep them from just destroying 6th edition.

DarthDiggler wrote:It's looking like Eldar are the most powerful codex right now. Not sure how long it will last though.

Vibro cannons inflict automatic glancing hits on every model in a 36" line. No Line of sight needed. 3 batteries of vibrocannons means three 36" lines of auto glancing to vehicles ( and a bunch of str 6 hits to non vehicles). Even flyers can't escape the line of glancing hits. Eldar should be able to wreck almost every enemy vehicle by turn 3. How do you not keep 2-3 vehicle out of a 36" line? It can't happen. All vehicles dead by turn 3 from three 150pt units.

Next Eldar excel at laying down huge amounts of fire into foot units. Warp spiders, dire avengers, even guardians will all get buffed with guide and the enemy will be hit with doom. This will force an obscene number of saves on the enemy foot units. Remember the Vibro cannons glanced all the vehicles to death already.

IMO Eldar need a new book and fast to keep them from just destroying 6th edition.

Are... are you being serious? Sure the vibro cannons got marginally better but almost everything else got nerfed. Yes I will probably bring my Warp Spiders back out but they're still incredibly squishy and will die to one turn of shooting, as will Avengers and Guardians, especially with the new reduced cover.

Our vehicles are just as susceptable to being glanced to death but our transports are two or three times as expensive as most other armies so it hurts a lot more.

There are 5 things in the whole book that will ignore 2+ armor in cc: the Avatar and the Wraithlord because they're MCs, Eldrad who shouldn't be in cc anyway, Yriel who is awesome and always has been, and a Striking Scorpions exarch with a claw. We're going to need to rely on masses of fire, expensive starcannons, or Fire Dragons to take out terminators more than ever.

T3 gets hurt a lot more by Overwatch than MEQs. Even if only 1 in 6 shots hit, it's easier to wound us and we usually have worse armor saves. Not being able to assault from stationary vehicles mean we have to endure an extra round of fire before getting into combat.

How exactly are Eldar now overpowered?

If you want to look at OP, look at 2+/3++/FNP T-hammer termies under the new rules.

They are damn near unkillable, barring MASSIVE wounds spamming.

Pony_law wrote:Calgar is looking like a beat stick the more and more I think about it.

He's also 265pts. He already got 5 attacks before, since he had two powerfists. You get to reroll one miss, and all wounds. The only buff he gets is if you are using Terminator Armor, he gets to laugh at everything that's not a fist/axe.

Ascalam wrote:If you want to look at OP, look at 2+/3++/FNP T-hammer termies under the new rules.

They are damn near unkillable, barring MASSIVE wounds spamming.

Word I just went over that, they literally have no weakness, lol. And if you really wanted to be a butthole you could throw a T5 IC in the unit and use them to front the S8 fire.

MandalorynOranj wrote:

DarthDiggler wrote:It's looking like Eldar are the most powerful codex right now. Not sure how long it will last though.

Vibro cannons inflict automatic glancing hits on every model in a 36" line. No Line of sight needed. 3 batteries of vibrocannons means three 36" lines of auto glancing to vehicles ( and a bunch of str 6 hits to non vehicles). Even flyers can't escape the line of glancing hits. Eldar should be able to wreck almost every enemy vehicle by turn 3. How do you not keep 2-3 vehicle out of a 36" line? It can't happen. All vehicles dead by turn 3 from three 150pt units.

Next Eldar excel at laying down huge amounts of fire into foot units. Warp spiders, dire avengers, even guardians will all get buffed with guide and the enemy will be hit with doom. This will force an obscene number of saves on the enemy foot units. Remember the Vibro cannons glanced all the vehicles to death already.

IMO Eldar need a new book and fast to keep them from just destroying 6th edition.

Are... are you being serious? Sure the vibro cannons got marginally better but almost everything else got nerfed. Yes I will probably bring my Warp Spiders back out but they're still incredibly squishy and will die to one turn of shooting, as will Avengers and Guardians, especially with the new reduced cover.

Our vehicles are just as susceptable to being glanced to death but our transports are two or three times as expensive as most other armies so it hurts a lot more.

There are 5 things in the whole book that will ignore 2+ armor in cc: the Avatar and the Wraithlord because they're MCs, Eldrad who shouldn't be in cc anyway, Yriel who is awesome and always has been, and a Striking Scorpions exarch with a claw. We're going to need to rely on masses of fire, expensive starcannons, or Fire Dragons to take out terminators more than ever.

T3 gets hurt a lot more by Overwatch than MEQs. Even if only 1 in 6 shots hit, it's easier to wound us and we usually have worse armor saves. Not being able to assault from stationary vehicles mean we have to endure an extra round of fire before getting into combat.

How exactly are Eldar now overpowered?

Footdar takes no vehicles and does not assault until something is crippled from shooting. The one weakness of Footdar in 5th was heavy vehicle lists and even that was mitigated by good players playing the list. Now that the Vibro cannons can eliminate enemy vehicles easier than most everything else in the game, it is quite simple to shoot the bejesus out of the enemy with all the units.

Overwatch doesn't hurt Eldar because they won't charge,. They'll stand back at 18" and shoot 20 shurikans from dire avengers. Guide and doom dishes out over 13 wounds to a T4 unit, like marines. That's one unit of dire avengers with no upgrades. Add in warp spiders who dish out over 17 wounds and the basic guardian squad which dishes out over 10 and enemy 2+ save units will start to disappear by rolling a 1 for the armor save.

What protects the 'squishy' Eldar? That's up to you. Sometimes it's a fortunes Avatar - yeah just try and bring him down. Sometimes it's a full squad of Harlequins and sometimes it's Wraithguard who introduce the enemy assault unit to the wraith cannon. All are capable of taking a depleted assault unit from any codex and stopping them cold.

I would suggest you read up on the exploits of Blackmoor, Sparks, and Reecius who have taken Footdar lists to many major tournaments and the European Championships and have done quite well with them. Now they are more powerful than ever.

DarthDiggler wrote:

MandalorynOranj wrote:

DarthDiggler wrote:It's looking like Eldar are the most powerful codex right now. Not sure how long it will last though.

Vibro cannons inflict automatic glancing hits on every model in a 36" line. No Line of sight needed. 3 batteries of vibrocannons means three 36" lines of auto glancing to vehicles ( and a bunch of str 6 hits to non vehicles). Even flyers can't escape the line of glancing hits. Eldar should be able to wreck almost every enemy vehicle by turn 3. How do you not keep 2-3 vehicle out of a 36" line? It can't happen. All vehicles dead by turn 3 from three 150pt units.

Next Eldar excel at laying down huge amounts of fire into foot units. Warp spiders, dire avengers, even guardians will all get buffed with guide and the enemy will be hit with doom. This will force an obscene number of saves on the enemy foot units. Remember the Vibro cannons glanced all the vehicles to death already.

IMO Eldar need a new book and fast to keep them from just destroying 6th edition.

Are... are you being serious? Sure the vibro cannons got marginally better but almost everything else got nerfed. Yes I will probably bring my Warp Spiders back out but they're still incredibly squishy and will die to one turn of shooting, as will Avengers and Guardians, especially with the new reduced cover.

Our vehicles are just as susceptable to being glanced to death but our transports are two or three times as expensive as most other armies so it hurts a lot more.

There are 5 things in the whole book that will ignore 2+ armor in cc: the Avatar and the Wraithlord because they're MCs, Eldrad who shouldn't be in cc anyway, Yriel who is awesome and always has been, and a Striking Scorpions exarch with a claw. We're going to need to rely on masses of fire, expensive starcannons, or Fire Dragons to take out terminators more than ever.

T3 gets hurt a lot more by Overwatch than MEQs. Even if only 1 in 6 shots hit, it's easier to wound us and we usually have worse armor saves. Not being able to assault from stationary vehicles mean we have to endure an extra round of fire before getting into combat.

How exactly are Eldar now overpowered?

Footdar takes no vehicles and does not assault until something is crippled from shooting. The one weakness of Footdar in 5th was heavy vehicle lists and even that was mitigated by good players playing the list. Now that the Vibro cannons can eliminate enemy vehicles easier than most everything else in the game, it is quite simple to shoot the bejesus out of the enemy with all the units.

Overwatch doesn't hurt Eldar because they won't charge,. They'll stand back at 18" and shoot 20 shurikans from dire avengers. Guide and doom dishes out over 13 wounds to a T4 unit, like marines. That's one unit of dire avengers with no upgrades. Add in warp spiders who dish out over 17 wounds and the basic guardian squad which dishes out over 10 and enemy 2+ save units will start to disappear by rolling a 1 for the armor save.

What protects the 'squishy' Eldar? That's up to you. Sometimes it's a fortunes Avatar - yeah just try and bring him down. Sometimes it's a full squad of Harlequins and sometimes it's Wraithguard who introduce the enemy assault unit to the wraith cannon. All are capable of taking a depleted assault unit from any codex and stopping them cold.

I would suggest you read up on the exploits of Blackmoor, Sparks, and Reecius who have taken Footdar lists to many major tournaments and the European Championships and have done quite well with them. Now they are more powerful than ever.

Except now if you're taking all these vibro cannons you aren't taking War Walkers, which I had understood to be a large part of most foot lists. That's a lot of shots you're missing out on, and in all honesty would probably be better at taking out armor as they can glance a vehicle more than once per turn. Even with the change to T7 two wounds, support batteries are still vulnerable, although I guess not needing LoS negates that issue.

Also with the changes to rapid fire that 18" range isn't as potent as it once was. Those units standing back will be taking more fire as the enemy advances than they previously would have, and with less defence against it.

I'm not saying these changes make them unplayable, just that it's damaging, and I wouldn't call it overpowered at all, especially since it's just one build out of the whole book.

With the buffs to DC and the very nice FNP change, and the understated ability for jump infantry to SAFELY drop into dangerous terrain and quite easily live to tell the tale, I don't know why anybody thinks they're going down a tier. I mean, we'll probably see less mechs. World's smallest violin, but to me, this higher concentration of powerful infantry strikes me as more BA-like, and more fun to play.


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But I'm pretty sure Astorath's Axe is under the unusual category, and so he's AP3, rendering most of the reroll successful invul save business moot for him.

But I'll make sure that's correct.


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........against termies, although other, non-2+ (and non-INSANE, in other words) models will be prime targets for him and his DC posse.

Triarchs are jump infantry, so no need for that transport, I was not saying that they are crazy better than wraiths, however they do have a niche and I have not had as good of luck with wraiths getting rending, so the idea of reliable no saves is pretty good. In a unit with a sergeant you would just have the destroyer lord challenge the Guy with the special weapon to protect the triarchs.

They are still a unit that will require some tactics to use but they are now useable instead of useless.

Correct me if I'm worng, but aren't the "rods of covenant" just power weapons therefore Ap3?

In the Necron FAQ, Rods of the Covenant are stated as being identical to power axes, and as such are AP2 , +1 Str, and swing at initiative 1.

GK Brotherhood Champions still aren't really worth taking, but the new Challenge rules have given them some pretty abusive utility (honestly though, these guys really should be Elites, they have some pretty cool abilities, even more with some of the new rules in 6th, but don't bring enough to the table to justify taking over the other options).

Run in to a big enemy unit, like a mob of Boyz or something, challenge the character, and then use Blade Shield to hold the unit down for the better part of the game.

Really, this guy seems like he was just made to abuse the hell out of challenges. Crowe too.
In fact, the fact that this makes Crowe slightly useful is really a huge buff for Paladin armies. He's not JUST a tax anymore!

Titan Atlas wrote:With the buffs to DC and the very nice FNP change, and the understated ability for jump infantry to SAFELY drop into dangerous terrain and quite easily live to tell the tale, I don't know why anybody thinks they're going down a tier.

The FNP change is really almost an across the board nerf.

Against small and medium arms fire it took a nerf. (Anything with Str7 or lower with an AP of 3+. This is most weapons)
Against high strength weapons it stayed the same. (Anything with Str 8, since it's denied in both cases)
The only thing it got a buff against are low/mid power weapons with high AP (plasma is the only thing I can think of off the top of my head but I know there are others) and non-x2 str power weapons.
So over all it got a decent buff in melee but a major nerf against shooting. the unfortunate part is that the FC nerf means that we're striking simultaneously with other I 4 units and so the survivability gained from FNP on power weapons gets at least a little balanced by the loss of units from more hits in combat, it's an even bigger nerf if that unit is only using CCW because then they would have hit second and we would have gained a 4+ FNP roll instead of simultaneously with only a 5+.

DC got a nice buff and SG got a nice buff, but Priests (and the abilities they grant) took a nerf.


edit
OH! and rending, we also got a buff against rending.
Over all I'd still call it a slight nerf.

No more fast vehicles for BA! No joke.

In the FAQ it says you have to look in the rulebook for unit type and hull points. Check rulebook... Only dreads and Baal predator in BA section... refer to space marines section?!?!?(what else are we supposed to do?)

Hopefully this gets rectified in the rulebook FAQ 1.0.

Kavish wrote:No more fast vehicles for BA! No joke.

In the FAQ it says you have to look in the rulebook for unit type and hull points. Check rulebook... Only dreads and Baal predator in BA section... refer to space marines section?!?!?(what else are we supposed to do?)

Hopefully this gets rectified in the rulebook FAQ 1.0.

Wait what? Where do you see that BA have no more fast vehicles?

Has anyone mentioned Stealth suits for tau. Jumping around terrain with a 2+ cover is just a little crazy and quite a bit more funny.

Ledabot wrote:Has anyone mentioned Stealth suits for tau. Jumping around terrain with a 2+ cover is just a little crazy and quite a bit more funny.

For more S5 AP5 shots? Kind of a waste of the Elite slots that bring your Plasma and S7 Shots.

DarthDiggler wrote:Vibro cannons inflict automatic glancing hits on every model in a 36" line. No Line of sight needed. 3 batteries of vibrocannons means three 36" lines of auto glancing to vehicles ( and a bunch of str 6 hits to non vehicles).

Read the wording carefully. The battery inflicts 1 glancing hit, not 3 glancing hits. This is not nearly as powerful as it seemed at first.

DarthDiggler wrote:Next Eldar excel at laying down huge amounts of fire into foot units. Warp spiders, dire avengers, even guardians will all get buffed with guide and the enemy will be hit with doom. This will force an obscene number of saves on the enemy foot units.

How is this different than 5th?


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MandalorynOranj wrote:Except now if you're taking all these vibro cannons you aren't taking War Walkers, which I had understood to be a large part of most foot lists.

First, as before -- vibrocannons are not what people say they are.

Secondly, Blackmoor has already said that hes looking at combining DE allies with Eldar for his foot list. It makes sense really -- trade out your crappy troops for excellent DE ones.

Titan Atlas wrote:With the buffs to DC and the very nice FNP change, and the understated ability for jump infantry to SAFELY drop into dangerous terrain and quite easily live to tell the tale, I don't know why anybody thinks they're going down a tier. I mean, we'll probably see less mechs. World's smallest violin, but to me, this higher concentration of powerful infantry strikes me as more BA-like, and more fun to play.

You lost army-wide 4+ cover, army wide 4+ FNP, can't use rhinos/razors to get troops to the front in a hurry, there's a 1 in 3 chance that you'll be fighting length ways (against serious dakka opponents, expect pain).
So your troops will have to be foot or in very expensive transports and they'll be taking 5+ covers and 5+FNP. Sounds like a drop in tier to me

Not to mention that the random charges, Overwatch, and Wound Allocation all work to make it far more difficult to assault effectively and far easier to stand and shoot, or walk and shoot.

The loss of "No Retreat" wounds means you're never getting out of combat with big mobs or orks or tyranids, Instead, you'll walk up with Tactical squads and Sternguard, who will just bolter them down.

Really, there isn't much in this game that ASM will do better than Tactical squads beyond capturing and contesting objectives far from your own lines. Dust off your 4th edition army, and paint more lascannons and missile launchers.

labmouse42 wrote:

DarthDiggler wrote:Vibro cannons inflict automatic glancing hits on every model in a 36" line. No Line of sight needed. 3 batteries of vibrocannons means three 36" lines of auto glancing to vehicles ( and a bunch of str 6 hits to non vehicles).

Read the wording carefully. The battery inflicts 1 glancing hit, not 3 glancing hits. This is not nearly as powerful as it seemeds.

I know each battery inflicts one glancing hit and ou have 3 batteries. At minimum to will inflict 3 glancing hits on a vehicle each turn enough to kill just about anything. On the other hand try and put 4-5 vehicles on the table and not have 2 or more be in a straight line from 3 different vibro cannon batteries. It's next to impossible unless you are skirting the side board edges and if you are doing that your tanks are out of the fight anyway. No, more often then not you will hit multiple vehicles with a single vibro cannon battery. Try it on the table.

Stoffer wrote:FNP is definitely not buffed. The plasma and melta shots I could live with, not being able to shrug off small arms fire in large quantities is going to be awful. For example, you're going to get shredded attacking 30 boys with overwatch.

Really!? I mean 30 boys snapfiring on overwatch would yield approximately 5 hits (since they need 6's to hit on Overwatch), then they'd need 4+ to wound, so 2.5 wounds... of which you will fail .8333 of these saves and after FNP those 30 boys will inflict a total of .555 wounds.

I don't exactly see any shredding going on... unless you count the shredding those assault marines are going to do when they reach those boys.

Admittedly there are some things that could make those boys a little more dangerous. a template weapon or two giving out a few more autohits, or maybe an errant rocket is mixed in that overwatch, but the point is... 30 boys will not shred anything with overwatch fire, barring extremely unusual rolling.

I think it is a bigger deal that you can FNP power weapons.

DarthDiggler wrote:

labmouse42 wrote:

DarthDiggler wrote:Vibro cannons inflict automatic glancing hits on every model in a 36" line. No Line of sight needed. 3 batteries of vibrocannons means three 36" lines of auto glancing to vehicles ( and a bunch of str 6 hits to non vehicles).

Read the wording carefully. The battery inflicts 1 glancing hit, not 3 glancing hits. This is not nearly as powerful as it seemeds.

I know each battery inflicts one glancing hit and ou have 3 batteries. At minimum to will inflict 3 glancing hits on a vehicle each turn enough to kill just about anything. On the other hand try and put 4-5 vehicles on the table and not have 2 or more be in a straight line from 3 different vibro cannon batteries. It's next to impossible unless you are skirting the side board edges and if you are doing that your tanks are out of the fight anyway. No, more often then not you will hit multiple vehicles with a single vibro cannon battery. Try it on the table.

Yeah that'd probably work, but do you really want to use your entire heavy support section to kill maybe one vehicle a turn? You'd be giving up Walkers which put out our biggest volume of fire, Fire Prisms which are our best way to take out Terminators AND dent hordes, Wraithlords who are just a good utility, and Dark Reapers, ho were previously bad (and might still be) but seem like they could be better now with the new cover mechanics.

pretre wrote:I think it is a bigger deal that you can FNP power weapons.

That's fair, PW were one of my biggest banes previously so I can see why you'd say that. A 5+ save is not crazy good against it however (hence most people look down upon tactical termies) and it makes you weaker against all incoming fire on your way to that power weapon combat.

I'll need to play a few games and see how it all shakes out in the end, I'm not going to jump to any "The sky is falling" type conclusions. Hell even if there is a nerf there, the three units I wanted to field more got a buff(DC, SG, and Stormravens), so I'm happy.

Awesome Christ wrote:

pretre wrote:I think it is a bigger deal that you can FNP power weapons.

That's fair, PW were one of my biggest banes previously so I can see why you'd say that. A 5+ save is not crazy good against it however (hence most people look down upon tactical termies) and it makes you weaker against all incoming fire on your way to that power weapon combat.

I'll need to play a few games and see how it all shakes out in the end, I'm not going to jump to any "The sky is falling" type conclusions. Hell even if there is a nerf there, the three units I wanted to field more got a buff(DC, SG, and Stormravens), so I'm happy.

As someone who's played a DOA list for a year, I completely disagree that power weapons are a big deal. Outside of GK, power weapons are available in such small numbers that it never really mattered. You'd always assume that you'd lose a model or two in CC to a powersword or a claw. The most important thing was always crossing the board without getting pummeled by small arms fire or the mass of non AP weapons, which we're now significantly weaker against. The entire chain leading up to the fight BA have taken a kick in the teeth.

To even get to the enemy you rely on 4+ cover and FnP, both of which are nerfed. Charge; now get shot by overwatch. Once in combat, only striking at I4, which means you'll hit at the same time as most of the other marine dexes and after some of the xenos ones. The jump pack assault will only work situationally (when you're basically 100% sure you'll make the charge).

The tradeoff for our codex is 35 point jump troops with a single wound, what a joke.

Stoffer wrote:

Awesome Christ wrote:

pretre wrote:I think it is a bigger deal that you can FNP power weapons.

That's fair, PW were one of my biggest banes previously so I can see why you'd say that. A 5+ save is not crazy good against it however (hence most people look down upon tactical termies) and it makes you weaker against all incoming fire on your way to that power weapon combat.

I'll need to play a few games and see how it all shakes out in the end, I'm not going to jump to any "The sky is falling" type conclusions. Hell even if there is a nerf there, the three units I wanted to field more got a buff(DC, SG, and Stormravens), so I'm happy.

As someone who's played a DOA list for a year, I completely disagree that power weapons are a big deal. Outside of GK, power weapons are available in such small numbers that it never really mattered. You'd always assume that you'd lose a model or two in CC to a powersword or a claw. The most important thing was always crossing the board without getting pummeled by small arms fire or the mass of non AP weapons, which we're now significantly weaker against. The entire chain leading up to the fight BA have taken a kick in the teeth.

To even get to the enemy you rely on 4+ cover and FnP, both of which are nerfed. Charge; now get shot by overwatch. Once in combat, only striking at I4, which means you'll hit at the same time as most of the other marine dexes and after some of the xenos ones. The jump pack assault will only work situationally (when you're basically 100% sure you'll make the charge).

The tradeoff for our codex is 35 point jump troops with a single wound, what a joke.

I agree with some of what you say, but a lot depends on local meta, cover never played that much of a roll for me because I fight a lot of either CC armies or hybrid CC/Ranged which means less shots on the approach but more power weapons fighting Eldar deathstar, D. Eldar incubi and the like. While DC are squishy they're all offense, which makes sense fluff wise but also if you toss them in a stormraven or other transport their low survivability for that point cost matters less.

Also the jump pack assault isn't for when you're 100% sure you'll make it since the jump pack assualt also allows you to reroll charge distance, while I don't recommend that you start trying for 11 or 12" charge ranges I don't think that an 8 inch charge range is that much of a gamble.

Again it's all based on local meta so it's hard to debate which one matters more, but I do agree that it's an overall nerf and a massive nerf in the shooting phase.

Gangrel767 wrote:

Stoffer wrote:FNP is definitely not buffed. The plasma and melta shots I could live with, not being able to shrug off small arms fire in large quantities is going to be awful. For example, you're going to get shredded attacking 30 boys with overwatch.

Really!? I mean 30 boys snapfiring on overwatch would yield approximately 5 hits (since they need 6's to hit on Overwatch), then they'd need 4+ to wound, so 2.5 wounds... of which you will fail .8333 of these saves and after FNP those 30 boys will inflict a total of .555 wounds.

I don't exactly see any shredding going on... unless you count the shredding those assault marines are going to do when they reach those boys.

Admittedly there are some things that could make those boys a little more dangerous. a template weapon or two giving out a few more autohits, or maybe an errant rocket is mixed in that overwatch, but the point is... 30 boys will not shred anything with overwatch fire, barring extremely unusual rolling.

Try 10 hits, 5 wounds. 30 shoota boys, 60 shots, 10 hits, 5 wounds.

However, DC went up and down in survivability. My personal philosophy when shooting at DC was always use guns that got rid of at least one save. Missile launchers against DC will give them only a 5+ cover save (if available) and thats rude. Rending guns will only leave them with 5+ FNP. S8 psy bolt auto cannons will only leave them with 3+ armor.

The point is, its been my experience that DC died to shooting not assault because they usually kill most everything they assault anyway. So because of that the FNP nerf to 5+ is a real hit, even if they can now take their FNP save vs. plasma shots.