6th Edition: Suddenly Awesome Units

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**MandalorynOranj**

Stormrider wrote:
MandalorynOranj wrote:
Mahtamori wrote:
DarthDiggler wrote:It's looking like Eldar are the most powerful codex right now. Not sure how long it will last though.

Vibro cannons inflict automatic glancing hits on every model in a 36" line. No Line of sight needed. 3 batteries of vibrocannons means three 36" lines of auto glancing to vehicles ( and a bunch of str 6 hits to non vehicles). Even flyers can't escape the line of glancing hits. Eldar should be able to wreck almost every enemy vehicle by turn 3. How do you not keep 2-3 vehicle out of a 36" line? It can't happen. All vehicles dead by turn 3 from three 150pt units.

Next Eldar excel at laying down huge amounts of fire into foot units. Warp spiders, dire avengers, even guardians will all get buffed with guide and the enemy will be hit with doom. This will force an obscene number of saves on the enemy foot units. Remember the Vibro cannons glanced all the vehicles to death already.

IMO Eldar need a new book and fast to keep them from just destroying 6th edition.

You're reading the rules for Vibrocannon wrong and you misunderstand why they are suddenly useful.

Vibrocannons combine their shots. You get one single glancing hit per battery per vehicle. All you gain from buying more cannons is a higher likelihood of scoring a hit and higher strength against non-AV.

The reason they got useful, and I'm not saying good, is that they are now T7 3+ rather than AV10 (with a really bad damage table) and as such harder to kill. I'll let a rules lawyer say that they can't kill stuff out of sight, but there you go.

P.S. Doom got nerfed. Guide is pointless.

I get why Guide is pointless because the primaris power for Divination is just Guide with double the range, but how exactly did Doom get nerfed aside from the slight chance to have it Deny the Witch'd?

Your Farseer has to be out in the open and have LOS to see their target for Doom. Farseers aren't durable in the open.

The codex still says that they don't need line of sight, so the rulebook shouldn't overrule that.

**Stormrider**

I think Ironclad Drednaughts will see more play with the preponderence of fortifications. Drop Pod for accuracy and big fella gets in there with his hammer or chainfist and destroys bastions with impunity. Heavy Flamers do nasty work to hiding infantry and the seismic hammer is awesome at cracking open vehicles too with it's +2 modifier.

**blood reaper**

Anything with a 2+ save.
Plague Marines, Nugle and high toughness stuff in general
Tau
Grey Knights
'Crons

**DarknessEternal**

MandalorynOranj wrote:
I get why Guide is pointless because the primaris power for Divination is just Guide with double the range, but how exactly did Doom get nerfed aside from the slight chance to have it Deny the Witch'd?

Also note, the Divination power is "to-hit rolls" not "shooting to-hit rolls".

**Sethorly**

Joe Mama wrote:
PrimarchX wrote:
Joe Mama wrote:Not a huge buff but if the rumors are true the GK Dreadknight got a decent buff in CC, considering it will get its 2+ save most of the time and potentially can challenge other characters.

And I heard that since Dread CCWs being 2x Strength no longer only applies to Vehicles a Dreadknight's strength is now 10 in Assault.

Ha ha, yes, I found out about this quite a bit after I posted that up there!

The biggest buff to Dreadknights, in my humble opinion, is that they move like jump units. As a user of DKs, their biggest problem was getting where they needed to be, especially after their one-off 30" shunt. Any vehicle within an 18" radius is in very dangerous territory; let alone any nearby infantry which due to the rules of Heavy Incinerator placement are going to be toasted just before the vehicle gets crumped.

**MandalorynOranj**

DarknessEternal wrote:
MandalorynOranj wrote:
I get why Guide is pointless because the primaris power for Divination is just Guide with double the range, but how exactly did Doom get nerfed aside from the slight chance to have it Deny the Witch'd?

Also note, the Divination power is "to-hit rolls" not "shooting to-hit rolls".

Ooh that's true, didn't notice that. Although you do need LoS to use that while you still don't for the codex Guide. The rulebook one still wins out, though.

**DOOMBREAD**

It's been said before, it'll be said again, but Necron Warriors. Rapid fire is better and glancing is better- both things Necron Warriors excel at.

**schadenfreude**

Stormrider wrote:
MandalorynOranj wrote:
Mahtamori wrote:
DarthDiggler wrote:It's looking like Eldar are the most powerful codex right now. Not sure how long it will last though.

Vibro cannons inflict automatic glancing hits on every model in a 36" line. No Line of sight needed. 3 batteries of vibrocannons means three 36" lines of auto glancing to vehicles ( and a bunch of str 6 hits to non vehicles). Even flyers can't escape the line of glancing hits. Eldar should be able to wreck almost every enemy vehicle by turn 3. How do you not keep 2-3 vehicle out of a 36" line? It can't happen. All vehicles dead by turn 3 from three 150pt units.

Next Eldar excel at laying down huge amounts of fire into foot units. Warp spiders, dire avengers, even guardians will all get buffed with guide and the enemy will be hit with doom. This will force an obscene number of saves on the enemy foot units. Remember the Vibro cannons glanced all the vehicles to death already.

IMO Eldar need a new book and fast to keep them from just destroying 6th edition.

You're reading the rules for Vibrocannon wrong and you misunderstand why they are suddenly useful.

Vibrocannons combine their shots. You get one single glancing hit per battery per vehicle. All you gain from buying more cannons is a higher likelihood of scoring a hit and higher strength against non-AV.

The reason they got useful, and I'm not saying good, is that they are now T7 3+ rather than AV10 (with a really bad damage table) and as such harder to kill. I'll let a rules lawyer say that they can't kill stuff out of sight, but there you go.

P.S. Doom got nerfed. Guide is pointless.

I get why Guide is pointless because the primaris power for Divination is just Guide with double the range, but how exactly did Doom get nerfed aside from the slight chance to have it Deny the Witch'd?

Your Farseer has to be out in the open and have LOS to see their target for Doom. Farseers aren't durable in the open.

They are durable when attached to heavy infantry like wraith guard or grotesques.

**Leth**

Land speeder squadrons. Take two with the weapons you want. The other one is bare bones. Move em so they have get a 5+ save. Have the cheapest one be the closest and flat out each turn giving it a 4+ save. Squadron will put out the hurt. worth it over attack bikes now

**schadenfreude**

Melta vets were already awesome in 5th ed, but demo doctrine aka demo vets were debatable. Suddenly in 6th ed all of the sudden demo vets have suddenly found themselves able to tearing apart MC and Dreads with 3 attacks or less.

10 GEQ with melta bombs>Psyflemen, 2 attack dreads with a DCCW, tomb spyders, wraithlords, mawlocks, Tfex, tervigons, and killa kans.

My new 6th ed goal is to destroy Bjorn the fell handed in CC with traitor guardsmen.

**EnormousName**

Stormtalon, from being a fat land speeder with no real role, to being great flying fire support!

Also, every other flier.

**Razdalan**

Fliers in all aspects and terminators are really going to feel like.. well "terminators".

**evildrspock**

Eldar Fire Prisms, Falcons, and Vypers, Buffed n/ nerfed all the same. Prism Cannon's small template shot has Ap2 (+1 to the damage table) and no half strength on vehicles anymore. Falcons and Vypers can fire 2 weapons at 12", meaning more movement for gunboating. All the Fast Skimmers gain an additional 6" movement for flatout movement, not to mention Jink, with a 5+ save always, 4+ for flat out movement.

Nerfed slightly by vehicle damage rules, but it's a tradeoff I'll take - I seriously prefer being able to take 1 or 2 glancing hits and still get to shoot full force next turn. And being able to Snapfire on Shaken/Stunned is awesome, too, little to prevent not firing a weapon (minus the Prism Cannon). Really, I still feel the vehicles are overall better and more effective.

**wuestenfux**

evildrspock wrote:Eldar Fire Prisms, Falcons, and Vypers, Buffed n/ nerfed all the same. Prism Cannon's small template shot has Ap2 (+1 to the damage table) and no half strength on vehicles anymore. Falcons and Vypers can fire 2 weapons at 12", meaning more movement for gunboating. All the Fast Skimmers gain an additional 6" movement for flatout movement, not to mention Jink, with a 5+ save always, 4+ for flat out movement.

Nerfed slightly by vehicle damage rules, but it's a tradeoff I'll take - I seriously prefer being able to take 1 or 2 glancing hits and still get to shoot full force next turn. And being able to Snapfire on Shaken/Stunned is awesome, too, little to prevent not firing a weapon (minus the Prism Cannon). Really, I still feel the vehicles are overall better and more effective.

Moreover, spirit stones for Eldar vehicles less useful than in the 5th ed. I'll leave them home from now on.

The same holds for extra armor.

**evildrspock**

wuestenfux wrote:
evildrspock wrote:Eldar Fire Prisms, Falcons, and Vypers, Buffed n/ nerfed all the same. Prism Cannon's small template shot has Ap2 (+1 to the damage table) and no half strength on vehicles anymore. Falcons and Vypers can fire 2 weapons at 12", meaning more movement for gunboating. All the Fast Skimmers gain an additional 6" movement for flatout movement, not to mention Jink, with a 5+ save always, 4+ for flat out movement.

Nerfed slightly by vehicle damage rules, but it's a tradeoff I'll take - I seriously prefer being able to take 1 or 2 glancing hits and still get to shoot full force next turn. And being able to Snapfire on Shaken/Stunned is awesome, too, little to prevent not firing a weapon (minus the Prism Cannon). Really, I still feel the vehicles are overall better and more effective.

Moreover, spirit stones for Eldar vehicles less useful than in the 5th ed. I'll leave them home from now on.

The same holds for extra armor.

This is a good thing, upgrades for free always is. Another thing I'm not sure on are Star Engines. The FAQ has a new entry concerning Star Engines, but it is not clear if we can use Star engines and Flat out movement or not.

In general Eldar Vehicle upgrades are far less worthwhile. Vectored Engines are still a decent upgrade (I guess really as useful as Spirit Stones), although once again the likelihood of getting immobilized is much smaller now, as glancing don't care. They could keep the current upgrades but lower the costs to represent their drop in usefulness. I predict HP defensive upgrades in the new codexes to come.

**Macok**

wuestenfux wrote:
evildrspock wrote:Eldar Fire Prisms, Falcons, and Vypers, Buffed n/ nerfed all the same. Prism Cannon's small template shot has Ap2 (+1 to the damage table) and no half strength on vehicles anymore. Falcons and Vypers can fire 2 weapons at 12", meaning more movement for gunboating. All the Fast Skimmers gain an additional 6" movement for flatout movement, not to mention Jink, with a 5+ save always, 4+ for flat out movement.

Nerfed slightly by vehicle damage rules, but it's a tradeoff I'll take - I seriously prefer being able to take 1 or 2 glancing hits and still get to shoot full force next turn. And being able to Snapfire on Shaken/Stunned is awesome, too, little to prevent not firing a weapon (minus the Prism Cannon). Really, I still feel the vehicles are overall better and more effective.

Moreover, spirit stones for Eldar vehicles less useful than in the 5th ed. I'll leave them home from now on.

The same holds for extra armor.

Yeah, Spirit Stones were my must have upgrade in 5th. Now I'll stay way away from them. Same with holofields. I still can't get past 3+ to hit in CC. I wholeheartedly hate this rule in my meele-centered environment.
But this topic is about awesome units. I'm excited about our fast attack options. They are not top-notch but they went significantly up in relative power. Viper squadrons are still as fragile as ever, but now they are more mobile and can bring more pain to other targets. Warp Spiders are a very cool idea fluff-wise and now a decent units. Really bummed about Hawks still being bad, a little less so, however.

**Grugknuckle**

Gangrel767 wrote:
A unit of 10 Warriors rapid firing is 20 shots, of which approx 13.33 will hit. This leaves 2.22 glancing hits form 10 warriors. Still good, but not vehicle eating.

I know this is the standard way that people do math hammer, but it's wrong. The right way to do it, would be to figure out the probability that ONE shot would cause a glance (which you did correctly) and then compute the binomial distribution using excel or a graphic calculator. Specifically, asking what the probability that you will get at least three glances from a unit of 10 Necron warriors who rapid fire at BS4 is the same as asking, "What is the probability of achieving at least 3 successes in 20 trials (with replacement) if the probability of success for each trial is 1/9 = 11.11%?"

The answer is 38.66%. That's the probability that a squad of 10 necron warriors with 12" of your rhino will destroy it in one round of shooting. Considering that the chances that a single twin linked lascannon will destroy that same rhino in one shot is only 19.75%, I'd say the necrons are doing pretty damn well.

**Siphen**

This isn't a "suddenly" awesome unit - it's always been powerful. However, the Doom of Malan'Tai just got a little more ridiculous.

1. Tyranids now have an easy way to give the Doom of Malan'Tai Eternal Warrior (Endurance).

2. Wounds no longer cap at 10

So a 20 wound model with a 3++/5++, plus Eternal Warrior, plus strength 10....for 90 points? Oh, and he's even easier to place now that he can disembark anywhere within 6" of his spore pod.

**AlmightyWalrus**

Siphen wrote:This isn't a "suddenly" awesome unit - it's always been powerful. However, the Doom of Malan'Tai just got a little more ridiculous.

1. Tyranids now have an easy way to give the Doom of Malan'Tai Eternal Warrior (Endurance).

2. Wounds no longer cap at 10

So a 20 wound model with a 3++/5++, plus Eternal Warrior, plus strength 10....for 90 points? Oh, and he's even easier to place now that he can disembark anywhere within 6" of his spore pod.

You're thinking of Iron Arm, not Endurance. Still, that's going to be scary, assuming you don't have any way of stopping the power (i.e. you don't play Eldar/Space Wolves/'Nids).

**Grugknuckle**

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Siphen wrote:This isn't a "suddenly" awesome unit - it's always been powerful. However, the Doom of Malan'Tai just got a little more ridiculous.

1. Tyranids now have an easy way to give the Doom of Malan'Tai Eternal Warrior (Endurance).

2. Wounds no longer cap at 10

So a 20 wound model with a 3++/5++, plus Eternal Warrior, plus strength 10....for 90 points? Oh, and he's even easier to place now that he can disembark anywhere within 6" of his spore pod.

You're thinking of Iron Arm, not Endurance. Still, that's going to be scary, assuming you don't have any way of stopping the power (i.e. you don't play Eldar/Space Wolves/'Nids).

Actually, every unit now has a 6+ "Deny the Witch" roll. I can't remember if that works on buffs though.

**Irdiumstern**

Grugknuckle wrote:
AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Siphen wrote:This isn't a "suddenly" awesome unit - it's always been powerful. However, the Doom of Malan'Tai just got a little more ridiculous.

1. Tyranids now have an easy way to give the Doom of Malan'Tai Eternal Warrior (Endurance).

2. Wounds no longer cap at 10

So a 20 wound model with a 3++/5++, plus Eternal Warrior, plus strength 10....for 90 points? Oh, and he's even easier to place now that he can disembark anywhere within 6" of his spore pod.

You're thinking of Iron Arm, not Endurance. Still, that's going to be scary, assuming you don't have any way of stopping the power (i.e. you don't play Eldar/Space Wolves/'Nids).

Actually, every unit now has a 6+ "Deny the Witch" roll. I can't remember if that works on buffs though.

Except that doesn't work. The Doom of Malan'tai's rules specifically cap it at 10 wounds. Iron Arm can only be cast on the psyker that has it, and the Doom only gets one psychic power. Would you like to trade your large blast for a 1/6 chance of eternal warrior? You can cast relentless on him for FNP, but the T4 works against you there.

**labmouse42**

After playing a game, C:SM got pretty good.

* Since you can now regroup with 6" of someone, ATSKNF and combat tactics are much better. Anytime your stuck facing something that you don't want to be engaged with, just fall back and shoot them in the face.

* C:SM get stormtalons. Right now all fliers are very powerful, and being able to bring 3 of them is strong.

* TH/SS termies just got twice as good vs enemies. The sergeant can challenge a PW wielding enemy and has a good chance of sending them off to meet their maker. (depending on the IC of course)

* TAC squads got better with rapid fire changes

* TAC squads can now keep the heavy weapon still and move the rest of the squad, allowing everyone to shoot at full BS.

**evildrspock**

labmouse42 wrote:After playing a game, C:SM got pretty good.

* Since you can now regroup with 6" of someone, ATSKNF and combat tactics are much better. Anytime your stuck facing something that you don't want to be engaged with, just fall back and shoot them in the face.

o_O ... totally didn't see that. Awesome! For all units, really. Chasing tactics got silly if you ran terminators off the board.

**DarknessEternal**

Siphen wrote:This isn't a "suddenly" awesome unit - it's always been powerful. However, the Doom of Malan'Tai just got a little more ridiculous.

1. Tyranids now have an easy way to give the Doom of Malan'Tai Eternal Warrior (Endurance).

2. Wounds no longer cap at 10

So a 20 wound model with a 3++/5++, plus Eternal Warrior, plus strength 10....for 90 points? Oh, and he's even easier to place now that he can disembark anywhere within 6" of his spore pod.

1/6 chance of getting it. Doom only has 1 power and only gets 1 power.

**Maelstrom808**

Plague marines allied with Epidemius is just sick and wrong, especially against horde armies where they can get their 20 kills pretty quickly.

**rigeld2**

Siphen wrote:Oh, and he's even easier to place now that he can disembark anywhere within 6" of his spore pod.

And he can only disembark 2" - the spore isn't a transport vehicle, it just has similar traits. The codex restricts it to 2" still.

But yeah - I'd trade in the large blast. I've rarely ever had it actually do anything with my fail rolls. It either scatters off into nothingness (and I take 2-3 wounds) or I fail to wound/pen (and I take 2-3 wounds).

**skoffs**

a little late, but I thought I'd share:

-a Destroyer Lord attached to a D&D Squad (unit of Deathmarks+Harbinger of Despair) will give them all Preferred Enemy.
-Against an enemy marked with Hunters from Hyperspace, that unit will wound on anything but a 1.
-However, if they roll a 1, because they now have PE, they would reroll that 1.

Therefore,

Deathmarks
+
Harbinger of Despair
+
Destroyer Lord
=
a deathstar that auto-hits and now (practically) auto-wounds any one infantry unit in the game.

**Brymm**

schadenfreude wrote:Melta vets were already awesome in 5th ed, but demo doctrine aka demo vets were debatable. Suddenly in 6th ed all of the sudden demo vets have suddenly found themselves able to tearing apart MC and Dreads with 3 attacks or less.

10 GEQ with melta bombs>Psyflemen, 2 attack dreads with a DCCW, tomb spyders, wraithlords, mawlocks, Tfex, tervigons, and killa kans.

My new 6th ed goal is to destroy Bjorn the fell handed in CC with traitor guardsmen.

Wow, I hadn't really looked at this! I was in the camp that split up infantry paltoons might be the way to go now considering you are only punised for kill points in 1/6th of the games. I was having trouble across my armies finding melta bombs and apparently they were right under my nose.

Suddenly awesome: The Devil Dog. Meltacannon now only needs to touch enemy tanks to bring the pain train.
Manticore, been said over and over but its so good now.
Chaos Terminators (while we have them!) Giving them Power Axes to some guys, Mauls to others for no additional cost is nice, but coming in at 30pts a piece then being able to add a reaper autocannon AND upgrade him to a character allows you to snipe on 6's and LOS when he gets shot. I love Chaos Terminators now and will continue to love them for the next month.

**acekevin8412**

Brymm wrote:
schadenfreude wrote:Melta vets were already awesome in 5th ed, but demo doctrine aka demo vets were debatable. Suddenly in 6th ed all of the sudden demo vets have suddenly found themselves able to tearing apart MC and Dreads with 3 attacks or less.

10 GEQ with melta bombs>Psyflemen, 2 attack dreads with a DCCW, tomb spyders, wraithlords, mawlocks, Tfex, tervigons, and killa kans.

My new 6th ed goal is to destroy Bjorn the fell handed in CC with traitor guardsmen.

Wow, I hadn't really looked at this! I was in the camp that split up infantry paltoons might be the way to go now considering you are only punised for kill points in 1/6th of the games. I was having trouble across my armies finding melta bombs and apparently they were right under my nose.

Can either of you elaborate on how melta-bombs have gotten better? As far as I can see they got worse since they now make you strike at I1. The only benefits I see are being able to use them against MCs and being able to hit on normal WS instead of 6s. However, these are both countered by the fact that being I1 means you'll probably not be able to get off any attacks.

I personally, took demolitions for the demo-charge. So many times when the unit won their points back with one weapon.

**Anvildude**

I was just reminded. Chaos Termies are now moving towards the leagues of Paladins and Nobz, in that they can all be upgraded to Champions, and all the Champions are Characters. Chaos is among the rare few Codii that can have all character squads.