6th Edition: Suddenly Awesome Units

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**G00fySmiley**

if bomb squigs can really hit fliers on a 2+ then tank bustas suddenly became badass. and they have meltabombs .. albeit str6 not str 8

**Stoffer**

Awesome Christ wrote:
Stoffer wrote:
Awesome Christ wrote:
pretre wrote:I think it is a bigger deal that you can FNP power weapons.

That's fair, PW were one of my biggest banes previously so I can see why you'd say that. A 5+ save is not crazy good against it however (hence most people look down upon tactical termies) and it makes you weaker against all incoming fire on your way to that power weapon combat.

I'll need to play a few games and see how it all shakes out in the end, I'm not going to jump to any "The sky is falling" type conclusions. Hell even if there is a nerf there, the three units I wanted to field more got a buff(DC, SG, and Stormravens), so I'm happy.

As someone who's played a DOA list for a year, I completely disagree that power weapons are a big deal. Outside of GK, power weapons are available in such small numbers that it never really mattered. You'd always assume that you'd lose a model or two in CC to a powersword or a claw. The most important thing was always crossing the board without getting pummeled by small arms fire or the mass of non AP weapons, which we're now significantly weaker against. The entire chain leading up to the fight BA have taken a kick in the teeth.

To even get to the enemy you rely on 4+ cover and FnP, both of which are nerfed. Charge; now get shot by overwatch. Once in combat, only striking at I4, which means you'll hit at the same time as most of the other marine dexes and after some of the xenos ones. The jump pack assault will only work situationally (when you're basically 100% sure you'll make the charge).

The tradeoff for our codex is 35 point jump troops with a single wound, what a joke.

I agree with some of what you say, but a lot depends on local meta, cover never played that much of a roll for me because I fight a lot of either CC armies or hybrid CC/Ranged which means less shots on the approach but more power weapons fighting Eldar deathstar, D. Eldar incubi and the like. While DC are squishy they're all offense, which makes sense fluff wise but also if you toss them in a stormraven or other transport their low survivability for that point cost matters less.

Also the jump pack assault isn't for when you're 100% sure you'll make it since the jump pack assualt also allows you to reroll charge distance, while I don't recommend that you start trying for 11 or 12" charge ranges I don't think that an 8 inch charge range is that much of a gamble.

Again it's all based on local meta so it's hard to debate which one matters more, but I do agree that it's an overall nerf and a massive nerf in the shooting phase.

I might have misunderstood the jump pack thing?

You either:

Move 6 and assault 2d6 with the hammer attack

or

Move 12 and assault 6 inches without the special attack?

If that's the case then I'd definitely not try for the 12 inches on the first assault

**Awesome Christ**

Stoffer wrote:

I might have misunderstood the jump pack thing?

You either:

Move 6 and assault 2d6 with the hammer attack

or

Move 12 and assault 6 inches without the special attack?

If that's the case then I'd definitely not try for the 12 inches on the first assault

It's you either move 6 and assault 2D6 with a reroll,

Or you move 12 and charge 2D6 with no reroll or special attack. Because my primary delivery system is a storm raven I'll be moving with the raven and assaulting with JPs

**Gangrel767**

Jayden63 wrote:Try 10 hits, 5 wounds. 30 shoota boys, 60 shots, 10 hits, 5 wounds.

ok you're right shoota boys would give 10 hits... and 5 wounds... BUT then power Armour saves .... 3.33 of those... , so 1.667 wounding hits... then, FNP ... so your right.. to 30 shoota boys.. 1.11 marine dies.. that is devastating.

**Holy~Heretic**

Can anyone tell me how the master of the ravenwing in a landspeeder has faired in the new rules?

It has front and side armour 14 but rear 10. Still waiting on my rulebook

**Kavish**

Stoffer wrote:
Kavish wrote:No more fast vehicles for BA! No joke.

In the FAQ it says you have to look in the rulebook for unit type and hull points. Check rulebook... Only dreads and Baal predator in BA section... refer to space marines section?!?!?(what else are we supposed to do?)

Hopefully this gets rectified in the rulebook FAQ 1.0.

Wait what? Where do you see that BA have no more fast vehicles?

In the FAQ it directs you to the rulebook reference section for unit types and hull points. Fast vehicle is a unit type. Since most BA vehicles are not actually mentioned in this section we can

a) use the normal space marine profiles

b) decide that BA vehicles don't have hull points or unit types (huh?)

c) decide that it's an oversight by the rulebook creators, (who clearly assumed that BA vehicles are the same as vanilla marines) and use the vanilla marine profiles and add unit type fast to rhino hulled vehicles.

I'm inclined to go with c) until they FAQ it. I wish the GW books where created by people who loved 40k as much as me. Then they wouldn't keep missing stuff like this.

**Stoffer**

Kavish wrote:
Stoffer wrote:
Kavish wrote:No more fast vehicles for BA! No joke.

In the FAQ it says you have to look in the rulebook for unit type and hull points. Check rulebook... Only dreads and Baal predator in BA section... refer to space marines section?!?!?(what else are we supposed to do?)

Hopefully this gets rectified in the rulebook FAQ 1.0.

Wait what? Where do you see that BA have no more fast vehicles?

In the FAQ it directs you to the rulebook reference section for unit types and hull points. Fast vehicle is a unit type. Since most BA vehicles are not actually mentioned in this section we can

a) use the normal space marine profiles

b) decide that BA vehicles don't have hull points or unit types (huh?)

c) decide that it's an oversight by the rulebook creators, (who clearly assumed that BA vehicles are the same as vanilla marines) and use the vanilla marine profiles and add unit type fast to rhino hulled vehicles.

I'm inclined to go with c) until they FAQ it. I wish the GW books where created by people who loved 40k as much as me. Then they wouldn't keep missing stuff like this.

Yeah, I just assumed that the rulebook wouldn't list racial variations specifically?

**Exergy**

phantommaster wrote:Anybody noticed Vanguard Veterans can charge 12" after Deep Striking?

2d6 and reroll one. Deep Strkiing is also less deadly

**Tzeentchling9**

Step aside Plague Marines, the Thousand Sons are back in business.

**Titan Atlas**

Exergy wrote:
phantommaster wrote:Anybody noticed Vanguard Veterans can charge 12" after Deep Striking?

2d6 and reroll one. Deep Strkiing is also less deadly

Actually, I'm pretty sure the reroll is removed because Heroic Intervention is FAQ'd as having used your jump pack that turn, so that's a bummer. But a BA VV is pretty damn good, getting 1d6 less for scatter and rerolling on reserves.

**Stormrider**

MandalorynOranj wrote:
DarthDiggler wrote:It's looking like Eldar are the most powerful codex right now. Not sure how long it will last though.

Vibro cannons inflict automatic glancing hits on every model in a 36" line. No Line of sight needed. 3 batteries of vibrocannons means three 36" lines of auto glancing to vehicles ( and a bunch of str 6 hits to non vehicles). Even flyers can't escape the line of glancing hits. Eldar should be able to wreck almost every enemy vehicle by turn 3. How do you not keep 2-3 vehicle out of a 36" line? It can't happen. All vehicles dead by turn 3 from three 150pt units.

Next Eldar excel at laying down huge amounts of fire into foot units. Warp spiders, dire avengers, even guardians will all get buffed with guide and the enemy will be hit with doom. This will force an obscene number of saves on the enemy foot units. Remember the Vibro cannons glanced all the vehicles to death already.

IMO Eldar need a new book and fast to keep them from just destroying 6th edition.

Are... are you being serious? Sure the vibro cannons got marginally better but almost everything else got nerfed. Yes I will probably bring my Warp Spiders back out but they're still incredibly squishy and will die to one turn of shooting, as will Avengers and Guardians, especially with the new reduced cover.

Our vehicles are just as susceptable to being glanced to death but our transports are two or three times as expensive as most other armies so it hurts a lot more.

There are 5 things in the whole book that will ignore 2+ armor in cc: the Avatar and the Wraithlord because they're MCs, Eldrad who shouldn't be in cc anyway, Yriel who is awesome and always has been, and a Striking Scorpions exarch with a claw. We're going to need to rely on masses of fire, expensive starcannons, or Fire Dragons to take out terminators more than ever.

T3 gets hurt a lot more by Overwatch than MEQs. Even if only 1 in 6 shots hit, it's easier to wound us and we usually have worse armor saves. Not being able to assault from stationary vehicles mean we have to endure an extra round of fire before getting into combat.

How exactly are Eldar now overpowered?

Don't forget Fuegan and Karandras for AP2 CCW's, although both are at I1

**MandalorynOranj**

Stormrider wrote:
MandalorynOranj wrote:
DarthDiggler wrote:It's looking like Eldar are the most powerful codex right now. Not sure how long it will last though.

Vibro cannons inflict automatic glancing hits on every model in a 36" line. No Line of sight needed. 3 batteries of vibrocannons means three 36" lines of auto glancing to vehicles ( and a bunch of str 6 hits to non vehicles). Even flyers can't escape the line of glancing hits. Eldar should be able to wreck almost every enemy vehicle by turn 3. How do you not keep 2-3 vehicle out of a 36" line? It can't happen. All vehicles dead by turn 3 from three 150pt units.

Next Eldar excel at laying down huge amounts of fire into foot units. Warp spiders, dire avengers, even guardians will all get buffed with guide and the enemy will be hit with doom. This will force an obscene number of saves on the enemy foot units. Remember the Vibro cannons glanced all the vehicles to death already.

IMO Eldar need a new book and fast to keep them from just destroying 6th edition.

Are... are you being serious? Sure the vibro cannons got marginally better but almost everything else got nerfed. Yes I will probably bring my Warp Spiders back out but they're still incredibly squishy and will die to one turn of shooting, as will Avengers and Guardians, especially with the new reduced cover.

Our vehicles are just as susceptable to being glanced to death but our transports are two or three times as expensive as most other armies so it hurts a lot more.

There are 5 things in the whole book that will ignore 2+ armor in cc: the Avatar and the Wraithlord because they're MCs, Eldrad who shouldn't be in cc anyway, Yriel who is awesome and always has been, and a Striking Scorpions exarch with a claw. We're going to need to rely on masses of fire, expensive starcannons, or Fire Dragons to take out terminators more than ever.

T3 gets hurt a lot more by Overwatch than MEQs. Even if only 1 in 6 shots hit, it's easier to wound us and we usually have worse armor saves. Not being able to assault from stationary vehicles mean we have to endure an extra round of fire before getting into combat.

How exactly are Eldar now overpowered?

Don't forget Fuegan and Karandras for AP2 CCW's, although both are at I1

Yeah since then I also remembered Banshee exarchs can take mirrorswords which just "ignore armor." Same with Spider exarchs' powerblades.

**stompygitz**

I'm not saying they are perfect, but dakkajets and the other ork flierz seem better. flyin' all over the board with 3 TL supa-shootas pinning (hopefully) most units. Needen' 6s to shoot me down. This entire thought coming from an orkz perspective.

**Anvildude**

I think Orkz iz slowly takin' over Games Workshop. Deyz alreddy hidin' in da community.

**DarbNilbirts**

Something that occurred to me for banshees is that conflicting rules that mod a stat to a fixed value roll off to see which applies. You could give banshees power axes, then each model would have a 50/50 chance of being I1 or I10. Risky but a better option then most books have for getting AP 2 in the fight.

**Exergy**

DarbNilbirts wrote:Something that occurred to me for banshees is that conflicting rules that mod a stat to a fixed value roll off to see which applies. You could give banshees power axes, then each model would have a 50/50 chance of being I1 or I10. Risky but a better option then most books have for getting AP 2 in the fight.

the FAQed it in 5th that banshee masks overuled other wargear, like DE archangle of pain. In 6th though, who knows.

**King Pariah**

Don't know if anyone mentioned this already but CSM bikers with MoN. Maybe not AWESOME!!!! But a nuisance in their own right.

**Gangrel767**

Look at the rules for unwieldy... I thought the same thing until I reread them. Unweildy does not care what your initiative stat is... and unfortunately the Banshee Mask alters your Initiative.

I don't think there is a roll off... I think the Mask loses this fight.

**DarknessEternal**

Stormrider wrote:
Don't forget Fuegan and Karandras for AP2 CCW's, although both are at I1

The Fire Axe is not a power axe.

It is a unique power weapon and would fall under the "AP 3 and use its special rules" rule, but then it's special rules already include "ignores armour saves".

**pretre**

Actually, the fire axe isn't a power weapon. It gives him ignore armor saves and roll 2d6 for pen.

**timetowaste85**

pretre wrote:Actually, the fire axe isn't a power weapon. It gives him ignore armor saves and roll 2d6 for pen.

Which of course just made Fuegan the 20 yr old Pamela Anderson of 6th edition.

Sorry, first thing I thought of.

**Quark**

Gangrel767 wrote:Look at the rules for unwieldy... I thought the same thing until I reread them. Unweildy does not care what your initiative stat is... and unfortunately the Banshee Mask alters your Initiative.

I don't think there is a roll off... I think the Mask loses this fight.

The Rulebook says multiplier modifiers, then addition modifiers, then set modifiers. The Tyranid FAQ (Lash Whip) says in the case of multiple set modifiers, roll off.

But you're not competing with enemy gear, it's your own gear - are you gonna roll off against yourself? It's an unanswered question, but in many other cases when there is two options for yourself, you choose.

**whembly**

timetowaste85 wrote:
pretre wrote:Actually, the fire axe isn't a power weapon. It gives him ignore armor saves and roll 2d6 for pen.

Which of course just made Fuegan the 20 yr old Pamela Anderson of 6th edition.

Sorry, first thing I thought of.

LOL! That made my night... *whembly fires up google*

**hotsauceman1**

How are tactical terminators better? is it because they are the only ones that can rip through MEQ?

**Titan Atlas**

Aren't CC terminators even better for that with Vanilla marines with TH/SS?

**Anvildude**

Not exactly- AP3 is fine for MEq, and TH are Sloooooow. There's a good chance you lose 1 or 2 models before you get to swing, dropping a good 4 or so attacks somethimes.

**King Pariah**

Well in that case, wouldn't LC termi's take the cake for MEQ killing?

**AresX8**

Yeah, a mix of LC and TH/SS Termies would be much better now than they were in 5th. I'm switching over my Termies to that config.

**TedNugent**

Why would you take LC Termies when they got nerfed?

**AresX8**

Why wouldn't you take LC Termies when the majority of things that can kill them in combat strikes after them?