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dietrich wrote:If BA hose Mech IG and Mechdar, I'm a happy man.

A deep striking librarian firing off a S8 AP 1 Lance attack that hits every vehicle in a line for up to 24" is one hell of an alpha-strike against mech guard. Even if the average attack is only 12", it will fundamentally change how mech guard deploys against an opponent with this ability.

Skohm wrote:

Khornatedemon wrote:So can you assault out of a deep striking land raider the turn it comes in?

Nope

Why not? They count as moving at Combat Speed, and assualt vehicels allows assaults after moving.

Therion wrote:Why are people calling this stuff broken? What the heck am I missing? The game is broken when 250 points of Tactical Marines with a PF Sergeant are racing towards you 18" per turn in a 50 point AV11 transport? What the heck are those guys trying to achieve? Do they still think it's 3rd edition? A bunch of blast from the past guys trying to assault a Chimera a turn after disembarking? Incredible.

Agreed. Unless BA Rhinos suddenly get Assault Ramps on their Rhinos a Fast Rhino really isn't much better than a regular Rhino - certainly not 15 points worth. In fact, to me the added cost makes me less likely to take them.

Therion wrote:Fast Vindicators? Yeah, someone might actually use a Vindicator now so that's good news. Being playable is very different to being overpowered.

Again, agreed.

Therion wrote:The Storm Raven? A Vendetta except for an extra 100 points for some transport capacity and with all the cool lascannons exchanged with one shot hunter killer missiles. Surely this will now break the game.

I don't think this one will break the game, but I'm not going to dismiss it quite so readily yet. Are you paying an extra 100 points over a Valk? Yes, but the value of being able to reliably deliver Marines vs Guard is worth a chunk of that cost. Being immune to melta fire and rear AV12 are also worth some of that as well. The fact that it can deliver a squad AND a dreadnaught is also worth a pretty penny, too. Granted, since you'll only be able to fit a 6-man jump squad in there, part of this value will really depend on how effective Assault Marines will be for their cost. Personally, I think if they can run with 3 inferno pistols in the squad and have an attached special character, it could well be worth it.

Therion wrote:A T6 Librarian that doesn't have an invulnerable save and costs 285 points? Yes, it's just all over now.

I think your cup of sarcasm runneth over, but I don't completely disagree with you in that folks are over-reacting. Just as they did when they first heard the rules for Marneus Calgar. And how many Marneus Calgars do you see running around? (Hm. Interesting thought. I wonder if I was to look back at those early discussions of C:SM how many folks picked out Vulkan to be the big winner?)

Therion wrote:Come on, please, stop with the OTT crap, unless OTT is actually a keyword for 'underwhelming'. I've yet to spot a single thing that would make jump packers or Rhino mounted assault orientated squads truly viable.

I certainly wouldn't call the BA codex underwhelming, but I agree that there's a lot of Chicken Little-ing going on.

IIRC the Stormraven can transport 12 jump pack troops. I haven't seen it but that was being said earlier.

And for those who don't know: the dread harpoon stops units an inch from terrain or other units so you can't force a tankshock or ram.

Therion is just doing what Therion always does. I find it a good form of light entertainment, same as I find all the posts of "ZOMG WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!" entertaining.

Da Boss wrote:Therion is just doing what Therion always does. I find it a good form of light entertainment, same as I find all the posts of "ZOMG WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!" entertaining.

I find the lack of wailing in this thread disturbing.

Is there anything in the codex that allows an assault after deepstrike?

skipmcne wrote:

Da Boss wrote:Therion is just doing what Therion always does. I find it a good form of light entertainment, same as I find all the posts of "ZOMG WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!" entertaining.

I find the lack of wailing in this thread disturbing.

Yeah I'm surprised most has been rational. Maybe this is in light of the trend of all the new codices?

jspyd3rx wrote:Is there anything in the codex that allows an assault after deepstrike?

Vanguard i think can, i haven't heard anything about Sanguniary Guard.

Alpharius wrote:Looks like a lot of crow is about to be consumed...

Who was it that recently was doubting the existence of the "StormRaven"?

And, GBF doubting the new model for the Baal?

Not sure how I'll explain some of the elements yet, but this is definitely looking like THE codex for my 'counts as' choice for a Raven Guard army!

I never said I doubted a new model for Baal. The one in the picture is the old model. Its like they only needed to make a plastic TL assault cannon anyways. How hard can that be with LRCs?

G

Must...have....bits sprue.....
I'm trying to eyeball it on a good link freakforge sent me
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/FHSSNIPER/Warhammer%2040k/BASprue.jpg

can't tell, does anyone spy termi specific bits????

OMFG!!! OMFG!!!

G

Green Blow Fly wrote:The one in the picture is the old model.

No it isn't, despite how often you keep repeating this.

I reckon you owe someone a...... battleforce was it ?

MajorTom11 wrote:Must...have....bits sprue.....
I'm trying to eyeball it on a good link freakforge sent me
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/FHSSNIPER/Warhammer%2040k/BASprue.jpg

can't tell, does anyone spy termi specific bits????

Neither Sprue has Termi Bits.

Originally Posted by The Voice
The sprue you are referring to contains:

5x Bolt Pistols
5x Chainswords (1 two-handed)
5x Bolter arm sets
2x Hand Flamers
2x Perdition Pistols
2x Plasma Pistols
1x Power Sword
1x Thunderhammer
1x Powerfist
5x Jump Packs
5x Backpacks
5x Legs
5x Torso backs
5x Torso fronts
8x Heads
20x Shoulder pads
Other small bits
Sanguinary Guard - Makes 5 plastic Sanguinary Guard

Originally Posted by The Voice
Sanguinary Guard look very similar to Sanguinor, with muscled armour, winged Jump Packs, haloed heads, two-handed weapons (three swords, two axes) and wrist-mounted Bolters. There are additional wrist mounted weapons of the Melta and Plasma variety and a lovely battle standard.
Originally Posted by The Voice
As to the Sanguinary Guard, contents are as follows:

5x legs (look like Dante/Tycho)
5x torso fronts (all muscled, no belts)
5x toros backs
5x winged Jump Packs (5 parts each)
5x left arms with wrist mounted Bolters
1x left arm with wrist mounted Plasma Gun
1x left arm with wrist mounted Melta Gun
3x 2-handed swords
2x 2-handed axes (1 double headed)
15x shoulder pads
1x large standard with winged grail icon on top
Multiple heads of different types such as with haloes and laurels
Other small bits like hands for the left arms

tgjensen wrote:

HD300 wrote:Umm, no gak. I'm letting you know the ability to take Sanguine Guard as troops is the only reason people would take him.

I don't know whether people would field him or not. If they don't that's fine. But I don't just play people who are competitive, so he might come up. And regardless, my objection boils down to the fact that I don't get -any- influence on whether or not my character gets nerfed or not. If Dante is fielded, my character gets gimped. That's a poor game mechanic that just isn't much fun to play against.

And for the record, my head is neither pretty nor little. I'd prefer if you spoke to me in a more respectful manner.

Gimped? herpa derpa

jbunny wrote:

Skohm wrote:

Khornatedemon wrote:So can you assault out of a deep striking land raider the turn it comes in?

Nope

Why not? They count as moving at Combat Speed, and assualt vehicels allows assaults after moving.

Until I see the codex I must assume that the deep striking LR bit was either a joke or a reference to the donkey cannon packing storm raven

I have to agree with Therion, by and large.

The Stormraven is a nice skimmer for its points, but hardly game-breaking.

Mephiston may be pretty tough, but he'll get turned into a thin red mist by his points in Stormhammers.

The best thing in the codex I've seen so far is the Fast, Scouting Baals, and even then you have to give up prime melta slots to get them.

reds8n wrote:

Green Blow Fly wrote:The one in the picture is the old model.

No it isn't, despite how often you keep repeating this.

I reckon you owe someone a...... battleforce was it ?

The desperation not to pay out is unbecoming.

It so obviously isn't the old Baal that's it's unbelievable that anyone thinks it is!

The more I learn about the new codex and models, the more it makes me want to stick with Vanilla marines; that new sprue especially looks like some weird Chaos kit

Plus, Sternguard for Blood Angels? Isn't that some sort of black-hole creating paradox?

No termi bits??? crap on a crapstick... I still have an un-opened box of space hulk I was planning on saving... (no I am not prospecting, I just wanted to make sure that I had enough floor bits for the diy missions that were floating around... That and I was considering opening it to convert some extra termies... Thankfully I resisted and instead developed my gs-fu and plastirod conversion skills to surprisingly good results)

Still, I am going to rape those bits inside out lol, everything there looks very, very nice, it is really good to see this after so long absent from the scene... I am sick to hell of bath-robed DA and BT, gimme some of that roman/greek goodness! no skirts allowed!

Green Blow Fly wrote:I never said I doubted a new model for Baal. The one in the picture is the old model. Its like they only needed to make a plastic TL assault cannon anyways. How hard can that be with LRCs?

G

Seriously, we can clearly see that the tactical marines in the picture have parts from the new upgrade sprue and the whole issue over there being Sternguard has been resolved by confirmation that Sternguard are in the new Codex, so why the hell if they are releasing a plastic Baal would they use a converted old version in the pic. I mean it is the preview pic for the new release and it contains a Baal that has several distinct differences from the current model, that rather suggests that it IS the new Baal, don't you think...?

I'm slightly regretting not offering the bet myself as I could use a Battleforce, but as obviously aren't going to accept this is the new model it would seem kind of futile.

[Edit - typos]

hey guys, just wanted to update you:

1) new pics of sprues(more sanguinary guard, the metal vanguard model and the generic sprue from the black box).

2)a video (not the greatest) of the black box and it's contents.

EDIT: pics:

skipmcne wrote:5x winged Jump Packs (5 parts each)

Mmm. Sweet Seraphim bitz here.

Wraithlordmechanic wrote:

jbunny wrote:

Skohm wrote:

Khornatedemon wrote:So can you assault out of a deep striking land raider the turn it comes in?

Nope

Why not? They count as moving at Combat Speed, and assualt vehicels allows assaults after moving.

Until I see the codex I must assume that the deep striking LR bit was either a joke or a reference to the donkey cannon packing storm raven

I don't see why DSing Land Raiders are that big of a deal. The model is huge, and so a mishap is a big risk especially when you want to put them in assault range.

The way I see it, you've got a 2/3rds chance of scattering an average of 7 inches. Could even be more, but I'm going to want a roughly 6 inch zone (measuring from the hull) of no impassible terrain and no enemy units. How often is there such a perfect place to plant a model that big? Considering the LR and its cargo are likely to be worth upwards of 5-600 points, it's too much to risk except in perfect situations, even if it's only about a 25-30% chance of going horribly wrong.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Bloodstrike missiles?

Really? Bloodstrike?

Yeah, the overuse of the word 'Blood' is a little tedious. Yes, we get that they're Vampires. What happened to style?

Fighting against the Blood Angels is going to be like a rewrite of Monty Python's 'Spam' sketch. "Do you have anything that doesn't have Blood in it?"

bravelybravesirrobin wrote:Oh and the magna grapple?

I can't decide if that's awesome or unbelievably stupid.

What's stupid is that they missed an opportunity to work in the word 'blood' in the name somewhere... 'Magna Blood Grapple' would surely be more appropriate.

Alpharius wrote:Looks like a lot of crow is about to be consumed...

Who was it that recently was doubting the existence of the "StormRaven"?

That would be me. Although, to be fair, I was doubting the existence of something called the 'Storm Harbinger' which was far too cringeworthy for words. 'Stormraven' is much better, even if it doesn't contain the word 'blood'

I might have to just refer to it as the Bloody Bloodraven of Blood-filled Doom.

CrazyThang wrote:IIRC the Stormraven can transport 12 jump pack troops. I haven't seen it but that was being said earlier.

6. Jump Infantry count as 2 models, according to the pic posted.



It does occur to me that I also have to eat crow on the whole 'Blood-forged Blade' being too silly for an actual codex. They've got Blood-everything else in there... And a Magna Grapple. The only thing missing now is a button on Dante's back so that he has a 'super-blood-axe-attack' action!TM!

Man, y'all just wait. If this trend continues my Dark Angels are going to be soooo overpowered!

Unless the cycle restarts just when they come out... :(

Ostrakon wrote:

Wraithlordmechanic wrote:

jbunny wrote:

Skohm wrote:

Khornatedemon wrote:So can you assault out of a deep striking land raider the turn it comes in?

Nope

Why not? They count as moving at Combat Speed, and assualt vehicels allows assaults after moving.

Until I see the codex I must assume that the deep striking LR bit was either a joke or a reference to the donkey cannon packing storm raven

I don't see why DSing Land Raiders are that big of a deal. The model is huge, and so a mishap is a big risk especially when you want to put them in assault range.

The way I see it, you've got a 2/3rds chance of scattering an average of 7 inches. Could even be more, but I'm going to want a roughly 6 inch zone (measuring from the hull) of no impassible terrain and no enemy units. How often is there such a perfect place to plant a model that big? Considering the LR and its cargo are likely to be worth upwards of 5-600 points, it's too much to risk except in perfect situations, even if it's only about a 25-30% chance of going horribly wrong.

Actually I was not saying OMG that's so broken!!! but rather that the idea is pointless and stupid. Especially if you can't assault out of it on the turn you arrive because then it's just a horrendously expensive drop pod. Not to mention how it would work fluff wise...

reds8n wrote:

Green Blow Fly wrote:The one in the picture is the old model.

No it isn't, despite how often you keep repeating this.

I reckon you owe someone a...... battleforce was it ?

I suggested a Dev squad... then it fell through. Anyways I would love to see some real proof the Baal in the picture is the new all plastic crack model.

G

Green Blow Fly wrote:Anyways I would love to see some real proof the Baal in the picture is the new all plastic crack model.

You mean other than the entire page of differences between the picture and the old model that were pointed out?

insaniak wrote:

Green Blow Fly wrote:Anyways I would love to see some real proof the Baal in the picture is the new all plastic crack model.

You mean other than the entire page of differences between the picture and the old model that were pointed out?

poppycock! that proves nothing. a single gamer with access to a foundry and knowledge of casting (or scibor on speed dial) could have made the extra bits to add onto the existing model as well as filing down the existing protrusions. obviously, that's the more reasonable answer.