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Thinking about it if people do pay the points for talons, furious charge and poison we get to re-roll hits (well 1's anyway, but we hit pretty much everything on 3's) AND wounds. I just remembered the rules for poison, which is quite nasty...probably quite expensive though.

I hereby encourage you, Schepp, to look up the spinefist statline the next time you get a chance.
while all the rumors on the internet point towards S4, the German store-paper seems to say S3.

I would also love to hear from anyone outside of Germany what they heard about our most basic weapons. Maybe we just got another translation error.

I finally want to know how to assemble my gaunts...

Could anybody clarify what the rule for the Trygon deepstriking is? As I understand it I hear he cannot assault the turn he deep strikes. But if the scatter takes him over an enemy unit (like the Mawloc for example) does he assault it?

As far as I know, he mishaps

I have heard conflicting theories. I'm not sure which is correct.

As far as I understand, when the Mawloc deep strikes he hits the spot with the S6 AP3 large blast template and then the surviving models are moved away so that the Mawloc can be placed there. Trygon deep strikes just like every other unit in the game.

Schepp himself wrote:Oh...Venomthropes "spore field" affects all units. Maybe the translation was fishy, but I did not see anything that prohibits monstrous creatures.

It has more to do with the BRB that prohibits MC from benefitting from cover that does not provide 50% concealment. So the "spore field" rules must specifically mention that it obscures MC in the text in order for the MC to actually utilize a cover save and thus override the BRB.


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saryrn wrote:Could anybody clarify what the rule for the Trygon deepstriking is? As I understand it I hear he cannot assault the turn he deep strikes. But if the scatter takes him over an enemy unit (like the Mawloc for example) does he assault it?

All the rumors I have seen say that if a Trygon deepstrikes onto an enemy unit he does not suffer a mishap but instead models count as being assualted.

Not sure if its mentioned, but summary of points socts confirmed by WD:

Tyrant guard: 60 (+15)
Venomthrope 55
Hive Guard 50
Deathleaper 140 (+55)
Warriors 30 (devourer and talons basic, 3 d spitters and one VC is an extra 30) (+7)
Termagants 5 (-1)
Hormagants 6 (-4)
Gargoyles 6 (-6)
Ravenors 40 with rending and devourers (-10)
Mawloc 170
Trygon 200

I like poison on Genestealers. Just on Weds. night I had a generic greater daemon easily chew up my unit of Genestealers. With poison, I kill it in the first round without taking a casualty. AND that same unit gets better vs. MEq. I was big on poison before, but that game (vs. Nurgle-heavy CSMs) really underlined it.

Regarding Hormies, they're definitely a toughie at this point. If I had the slots, I'd think about using 6-pointers in large broods and smaller assassin broods of 10-pointer for anti-elite units, MCs, etc. It's interesting to consider whether 10-point hormies can replace Genestealers. They can certainly hit very hard and have a little more speed, even if they're obviously more fragile.

I agree that most of the gribbly units are more glass hammers than ever, and think it's absolutely all part of the "cinematic" angle in GW's eyes, even if it's not so great in game terms. I think it underlines how important using alternative deployment options is going to be. We'll really have to seize the initiative in the game and keep it.

The conflicting rumours for the Trygon scattering onto a unit are:

1. He mishaps
2. He stops 1' from the enemy, just like a drop pod
3. He counts as assaulting them

I would love if somebody who has some solid evidence could clarify this please.

I had the same question as saryrn. Additionally, do the spore pods have the Drop Pod/Daemonic Assault rules? Do half come in on the first turn, or do they just stay in regular reserves? It makes a big difference as to how they'll mesh with the other reservists (outflankers and Trygons and all).

Thanks anyone who's knowledgeable on the matter!

gorgon wrote:I like poison on Genestealers. Just on Weds. night I had a generic greater daemon easily chew up my unit of Genestealers. With poison, I kill it in the first round without taking a casualty. AND that same unit gets better vs. MEq. I was big on poison before, but that game (vs. Nurgle-heavy CSMs) really underlined it.

You don't see the problem with that?

I know we've yet to see 'the complete picture', but currently I'm still waiting to learn about some of the drawbacks...

FuzzyOrb wrote:I hereby encourage you, Schepp, to look up the spinefist statline the next time you get a chance.
while all the rumors on the internet point towards S4, the German store-paper seems to say S3.

I can only repeat what is on the German fan site which is saying Str 4.
Termaganten 5P - WS3 BF3 S3 T3 W1 I4? A1 LD6 SA 6+
Weapons: Bohrkäferschleider
Options: Raving attack +1P, toxin +1P, Stachelfaust +1p

Stachelfaust R:18 S:4 AP:5 Assault X (X= bearer's attacks), twin-linked
Bohrkäferschleuder R:18 S:4 AP:5 Assault 1

Other info on TERVIGON
Wenn sie stirbt bekommen alle ganten im umkreis von 6" 3W6 treffer der S:3 DS:-
If she dies everything in circle 6" takes 3d6 hits of S:3 AP:-

Alpha warrior 80P
1 model WS6 BS5 S5 T5 W4 I5 A4 LD10 SV 3+
Weapons: Scythes Talon pair, Neuralfresser [Devourer 18" S4 Ap- Assault 3]
Can get Swords pair of for 10P A warrior unit he joins has his WS & BS Synapse, shadow in the Warp

Alpharius wrote:

gorgon wrote:I like poison on Genestealers. Just on Weds. night I had a generic greater daemon easily chew up my unit of Genestealers. With poison, I kill it in the first round without taking a casualty. AND that same unit gets better vs. MEq. I was big on poison before, but that game (vs. Nurgle-heavy CSMs) really underlined it.

You don't see the problem with that?

I know we've yet to see 'the complete picture', but currently I'm still waiting to learn about some of the drawbacks...

Flip it around, and there's also a problem when 200+ pts of the galaxy's greatest predators go down in a whimper to a 110(?) pt generic GD.

Gaunts/Hormagaunts are T3, SV6+ and Genestealers will be T4, Sv5+ with no armor upgrades available. And if any of those Gaunts/Hormagaunts (do Genestealers still have Brood Telepathy?) get out of synapse range, they revert to instinctive behavior.

That really ought to be quite enough drawbacks.

Yeah, 5+ armor save is going to mean every ap5 gun in the opposing army will be pointed at them, which is damn near every gun in the game barring lasguns.

Not to mention if you run into a super resilient screen of something you'll lose more stealers in melee due to crappier armor save. Plaguebearers will present a bigger hurdle than they do now, even with the 'stealers wounding on 4's instead of 5's.

Well there are means to get into CC faster, and I have yet to play a 5th game that makes getting into cover difficult. That is if you are playing by the recomended 25% - 33% .

Oh I'm not bemoaning 'stealers. Just pointing out the drawbacks to 'stealers actually getting better offensively (which is about time) for around the same or less.

If rumored points are true my 12 stealers get 96 pts cheaper, trade some durability for a crap load more offensive power + the BL himself which doesn't sound like a "must buy" but they are upgrades I intend to take.

wyomingfox wrote:It has more to do with the BRB that prohibits MC from benefitting from cover that does not provide 50% concealment. So the "spore field" rules must specifically mention that it obscures MC in the text in order for the MC to actually utilize a cover save and thus override the BRB.

That would be from MCs trying to gain the benefit of cover from Terrain. There's nothing in the book that says they can't be given a save by a special rule or wargear, and if the Spore Clouds simply say all units, well, a MC is still a unit, and would get the benefit from it unless Spore Cloud has a rule that says otherwise.

My biggest concern is the total firesale on frag grenades :( Over here our tourneys run significantly more than every photo I've ever seen of a US/UK battle report EVER, so you're almost always going to be going last as nids here it seems :/

Your lashwhip units should be the ones hunting people cowering in cover. Other than that I think the bugs have the numbers to do alright going last.

Remember also that if you are in cover and engadged then you do not benifit from the rules of cover anymore. Send in the gaunts/gargs to hold them there and use the genestealers to finish them off.

On frag grenades....

You know, frag grenades have been one of those things that so many units have gotten lately. With every space marine variant, every guardsman except conscripts and slaanesh demons getting them for free, there just hasn't been a lot of reasons to get yourself into terrain based cover. The same has been going on with eternal warrior. Outside of crisis suits and nobs there hasn't been a competitive multi-wound unit in play for quite some time.

it'll be nice to see another set of models that are disadvantaged when charging into a prepared fighting position, and a few more important units that are vulnerable to heavy weapons fire.

Conversely, I hope its true that the broodlord gives genestealers frag equivalents. I don't mind hormagaunts flinging themselves suicidally into a line of space marines, but 14+ points per model stealers are kinda meant to go through the more dense cover areas to attack the prepared positions. that is a role they fulfill in the fluff and should probably be a role they fulfill in game as well. As for raveners and warriors, they could drop down to initiative 1 for all i care, they have enough wounds per model to soak up the non power fist attacks.

'll be nice to see another set of models that are disadvantaged when charging into a prepared fighting position, and a few more important units that are vulnerable to heavy weapons fire.

I agree, this codex is showing some interesting (gutsy even) design desicions, like the limited options for frag grenades. It kinda makes sense too, defeating nids should be about holing up in a bunker or behind obstacles (ala the last stand in Aliens)And there's other ways for tyranids to minimize striking last from cover outside of frag grenades. Tyrant tossing the WS1 power at the target unit. Tervigon giving the assaulting unit feel no pain to minimize casualties. Pinning weapons (assuming they still have them somewhere) or shooting something enough to make them want to go to ground. Also gives some disticntion between some units (those that get a frag option like stealers and MCs and those that apparently don't ala horms and ravs). It is too bad there's no longer a power like the current catalyst, where it woulda mattered more.

Aduro wrote:That would be from MCs trying to gain the benefit of cover from Terrain.

I am pretty sure that the 50% obscured rule for MC is for cover in general whether it be from area terrain or models blocking LOS, ect. I will check tonight. If I am right, then even if spore field says it provides cover for all units, unless obscured, the MC still wouldn't benefit from the cover. In any case, the RAW is vague enough that this is going to cause major arguements unless the language in Spore Field makes it very clear and goes out of its way to specify MC. Otherwise it comes down to two players calling each other TFG, which isn't very productive. So unless, it specifically states MC, I am going to use the Kirsanth way in interpreting the rule (ie take the interpretation that is least favorable to me and my nids).

I am pretty sure that the 50% obscured rule for MC is for cover in general whether it be from area terrain or models blocking LOS, ect. I will check tonight.

Being 'in cover' via terrain and blocked LOS and being granted a cover save are two different things. It will most certainly cause rusty spoon laden threads in YMDC I am sure.

That is a similar arguement that SW players are trying to use to justify 5+ cover saves for land speader "squads". Again, Stormcaller says it grants 5+ cover save to all squads and LS come is squads...BUT, vehicles can't make a 5+ cover save period unless it is simultaneously obscured...that is not even broaching the RAI crowd that interpret squads to mean units and want it to act like the 4rth Edition FAQ.

Other thing to mention is that pg 51 states: "Cover for them (MC) works exactly as for vehicles (see page 62)."

I really need to know the language for "spore clouds".

ChaosDave wrote:The difference is vehicles form squadrons not squads, so squads getting cover saves does not affect landspeeder squadrons. The Venom save specifies "unit", and everything the tyranids have are "units". At least that my take on the limited info we have so far.

Except the term "squads" is not defined in the codex or BRB and in the english language, squadrons and squads can be synonymous. This is the main point of contention.

wyomingfox wrote:That is a similar arguement that SW players are trying to use to justify 5+ cover saves for land speader "squads". Again, yeah it says it grants 5+ cover save to all squads and LS come is squads...BUT, vehicles can't make a 5+ cover save period unless it is simultaneously obscured...that is not even broching the RAI crowd that interpret squads to mean units.

I really need to know the language for "spore clouds".

The difference is vehicles form squadrons not squads, so squads getting cover saves does not affect landspeeder squadrons. The Venom save specifies "unit", and everything the tyranids have are "units". At least that my take on the limited info we have so far.

I was looking at the trygon model today. Looks like a pain in the ass to transport. All the spikey bits are going to break off.

Can someone get a check on how many biomorphs are lost?

olympia wrote:I was looking at the trygon model today. Looks like a pain in the ass to transport. All the spikey bits are going to break off.

No worse than the resin model.

And actually, the plastic model should be stronger - fewer plastic welds together, whereas resin is only glued & pinned.

It's not like Tyranids were ever easy to transport- the foam sheets I have only fit Termagants/Hormagaunts (and Hormagaunts are really pushing it)- anything bigger I have to cut into the foam for. Sort of a pain when you want to transport broods of Genestealers/Gargoyles, nevermind the larger 'Nids