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another thing of note is that speeders can now take 2 heavy flamers or multi-melta's. Sallies speeders with 2 twin linked melta's sounds fun

I'm not in the knee jerk camp wrt this codex, there are things about it I don't like, but I also see something of a similar approach to when the new Eldar dex came out. They took a list where the de facto tank busting type firepower was to be found largely in the number of bright lances fielded, and made those more expensive and less available. At the same time, they offered up some new close ranged anti-tank options like shining spears and haywire-armed Hawks.

With C:SM, the lasplas obsessives now have other options to deliver their tankbusting needs (multi meltas everywhere, for one thing) and still plenty of ways to gain ROF on something other than just a tactical marine with heavy weapon. And on that last point, it's clear the designers want us using ROF rather than relying on low AP to beat infantry armour.

oh wow, i didnt realize scout bikers got scouts and infiltrate, holy crap, that makes them so sick with a deepstriking army.

Take a scout bike squad, deepstrike half your pods onto them first turn pretty much anywhere on the board you want with no deviation (doubly awesome if you know you are going first), then with locators on the pods and Tigerius as your HQ, 75% of everything else you has comes on turn 2 with no deviation, including termies and assault squads or land speeders? Good god.

That is rediculous. My pod army is gong to be waylaying some people. it was good before but now with all of these other gizmos you can knock peoples lights out with a pod army.

My mind is going in loops looking at all of the rediculous combos in here.

With shrike, you can give assault terminators fleet of foot making them worth while now, combined with a 3 up invul with storm shields and you have a bad ass assault unit. I didnt see any restirctions in the termie entry that would stop you from doing that unless i missed something. Three landraider crusaders with full loads of assault squads, termie or otherwise, with shrike as the HQ, everyone goes 12 inches forward in a seriously tough tank, disembarks 2 inches, fleets D6, charges 6? Damn, that could be some serious hurting. Plus marines and termies are tough enough to survive a turn of shotting to charge again, unlike Harlies with super falcons.

since Shrikes entry says all units get fleet, could you give it to Dreads as well? That makes them look really nasty, espcially the ironclads with two close combat weapons and a heavy flamer and melta gun. wow.

This codex is going to make marines an army to be recokoned with, which they should be. People will still come up with ways to beat them as they are suh a popular army, but i think this is a really good step.

hopefull every codex from here forward has as much flexibility and depth.

Why would you use a normal chaplain over cassius?
25 Points for feel no pan combined with T6 and his flaming bolter thrown in for good measure... I hate when they do that.

Greets
Schepp himself

Reecius wrote:oh wow, i didnt realize scout bikers got scouts and infiltrate, holy crap, that makes them so sick with a deepstriking army.

Take a scout bike squad, deepstrike half your pods onto them first turn pretty much anywhere on the board you want with no deviation (doubly awesome if you know you are going first), then with locators on the pods and Tigerius as your HQ, 75% of everything else you has comes on turn 2 with no deviation, including termies and assault squads or land speeders? Good god.

That is rediculous. My pod army is gong to be waylaying some people. it was good before but now with all of these other gizmos you can knock peoples lights out with a pod army.

My mind is going in loops looking at all of the rediculous combos in here.

With shrike, you can give assault terminators fleet of foot making them worth while now, combined with a 3 up invul with storm shields and you have a bad ass assault unit. I didnt see any restirctions in the termie entry that would stop you from doing that unless i missed something. Three landraider crusaders with full loads of assault squads, termie or otherwise, with shrike as the HQ, everyone goes 12 inches forward in a seriously tough tank, disembarks 2 inches, fleets D6, charges 6? Damn, that could be some serious hurting. Plus marines and termies are tough enough to survive a turn of shotting to charge again, unlike Harlies with super falcons.

since Shrikes entry says all units get fleet, could you give it to Dreads as well? That makes them look really nasty, espcially the ironclads with two close combat weapons and a heavy flamer and melta gun. wow.

This codex is going to make marines an army to be recokoned with, which they should be. People will still come up with ways to beat them as they are suh a popular army, but i think this is a really good step.

hopefull every codex from here forward has as much flexibility and depth.

Shrike only give fleet to the units that have Combat tatics... So dreads do not have Combat Tatics, therefore no fleet. Thank God....

This codex does give the Marines the ability to fight Chaos and Eldar and Demeons.. but to the army I play tau empire, this codex makes Tau not able to be taken to tournments

Asta, you keep popping in with these portents of doom about your Tau, it's not very objective to be honest. Get on the table against the new list and I'm sure you'll soon find some solid tactics to employ against it.

Here's a fact about the new Marine codex....

After looking at it and then going home and seeing my Dark Angel codex....it angers me.

Tribune wrote:Asta, you keep popping in with these portents of doom about your Tau, it's not very objective to be honest. Get on the table against the new list and I'm sure you'll soon find some solid tactics to employ against it.

Care to name a couple? Read some battle reports, 5th seems to have done a number on the Tau (nerfed skimmer firepower, very hard to hide suits from LOS, running to allow closing on our gunlines faster, much closer starting postitions) taking away a lot that they relied on and boosting other armies as well. Add in new and improved marines and I think it might just mean the death of the Tau in a super competitive environment.

Lormax wrote:This fell into my lap

http://themacabre.dkpsystem.com/gallery.php?id=3

I have to say the formating on that site is terrible and printing the pages a true hassle. I really expect better service from my pirate sites.

Tribune... Just so you know.. I have played 9 games so far in 5th addition... I have lost all of them except for 1

Lost to:

Space Marines Assault Army x4
Space Marine Drop Pod Assault x1
Imperial Guard Tank Rush x1 (Got to love Flame tanks and Fifth Addition Flame Rules)
Necrons x1
Chaos Space Marine x1

Won:
Space Marine Assault x1


Thank you Jayden for your support. I am not truly angry about this. I am just bieng honest. The new marine codex is wonderfull if you play vanilla marines or one of the special character chapters.

Explain to any tau player that a 12-18 inch assaulting Terminator with 2+, 3+ save, fleet. and also 18-24 inch assault marines with fleet playing in a mission game where one sets up the other gets to set up 24 inches away and then also gets drop pod assault so you get atleast one squad of marines droping in on the fire line and assault on turn one. (Vanguard) How can tau survive.. ? Even our beloved Suits don't get power weapons?


Please, if anyone can tell us tau players how to even get a fighting chance against this.. I would love to know.. !

Astalado

Well I'll be honest and say that I have seen you post much the same several times - it's more appropriate to take your question to the tactics section than sideline Marine codex discussions with declarations of the end of the Tau etc., that's all.

Your last post suggests it's not so much to do with the marine dex, so much as how you are getting on with 5e in general..

Armour of Antilochus? Where have I heard the name Antilochus before...

Does Rites of Battle act like it did in the last Codex?

No Lightning Claw Chaplains.

No Thunder Hammer Chaplains.

Love to know what planet the designers were from thinking that a TL-Heavy Flamer is worth 25 points more than a TL-Heavy Bolter, or that a TL-Assault Cannon is somehow worth as much as a TL-Lascannon in the current rules.

Heh. Locator Beacons on Drop Pods. That's just mean.

Terminators are still 10 points too expensive. If they're going to be worth over twice a Marine they need to be W2 at the very least.

Terminator Sergeant still has the 'Removed me as a casualty first' sign hung around his neck. 'Spose he can take a cheapest Chainfist in the squad (ie. swapping a power weapon rather than a power fist for one).

Heavy Flamer for Sternguard? Hmm...

Heh. You can have a BS5 Venerable Dread with two Twin-Linked Autocannons.

Chainfist on the Ironclad Dread? Why? It's already rolling 2D6+10 and that's already redundant in 5th Ed because you can't roll less than a 10 and you always attack the AV10 rears of vehicles in HTH combat (and there are only 3 vehicles with a rear AV higher than that).

Gift of Presience on Tiggy? I can feel the Eldar player nerd rage rising.

Nearly 400-year-old Chaplain with loads of Bionics > 10,000 year old Chaos Lord in Terminator Armour who has been dedicated to Nurgle for all that time.

Can a Techmarine with a Servo-Harness ride a bike?

Why is the first Servitor worth 10 points, but each one after that worth 15? Why, at WS3 BS3 S3 I3 T3 Sv4+ are they worth 1 point less than a Marine? Wait, I know - They're not getting a new model kit!. Of course...

Part of me wishes they'd made a formatting error and not capatalised the 'D' on the LotD squad. Then it would have been "The damned Sergeant can take this..." or "One damed Legionnaire can upgrade his bolter to this...".

And how come the damned Legionnaires don't get free special/heavy weapons?

Why does the Vangar Vet's Power Fist/Hammer/Blade upgrades cost less than everyone else's?

I've brought this up before, but 40 Point Assault cannons on speeders! LOL! It's almost like GW willfully tries to write bad rules...

Bikes are still overpriced, but than again bikes always have been and they're not getting a new model in this cycle, so GW doesn't really care what rules they have. Interestingly though, when fully upgraded the squad does number 10 Marines (9 models/10 wounds) - and they can use Combat Squads!!!

240 points for the Redeemer? F*#k me dead that's expensive. Until Land Raiders can move full distance, fire everything, and ignore Shaken/Stunned they will never be worth more than 180 points. Never.

The Predator. Get a sneaking suspicion it's not getting a new kit either? 60 point Sponson Lascannons! WOW!! GW really must hate people who've already bought the models and don't want to get new ones. Yes I know the dorky Dark Angles and bland Blood Angels already have the 60 point sponsons, but it doesn't change the fact that that's a 20 point overpriced upgrade.

Love to know what a Siege Shield is. Also love to know why they haven't made the Vindicator AV12 on the sides.

"I am Lysander! Fear the mythical might of my monstrous Bolter Drill, as I smite down my foes with me... oh wait I have a Thunder Hammer..." Seriously, why would you join this guy to anything other than an Assault Terminator Squad?

Shadow Captain Shrike? What's worse. Shadow Captain or the Redeemer's 'Flamestorm' cannon?

Thunderfire Cannon is still a bit of a waste. S5 AP6 or S6 AP5. Wow. So impressive.

Appears Rites of Battle does act the same. Christ I hate that rule...

Oh yeah. Tiggy's gonna make Eldar players really angry...

'Spose that explains why Cassius is on pre-order - they're bringing back the model with the Combi-Flamer. So even old models are new again - and he has better rules. Seeing a pattern yet?

One wonders if killing Chronus inside his tank yeilds two Kill Points? If it does not, then wouldn't you want him to die, rather than bailing out, so that he can't be worth a KP if killed later?

Vulkan He'stan? By the power Grey Skull, this guy is amazing! There's going to be a lot of Ultramander armies out there soon. And he's only 190! Wow.

How come the White Scar guy doesn't automatically come with a Bike? I see he makes Bikes Troops.

Sweet! Daemonhunters can cut Legion of the Damned to ribbons!!!

Chapter Masters can have Terminator Armour and two Thunder Hammers! OMG!!!! Totally wasteful, but how cool would that look!!!

You may include one Honour Guard squad for every Chapter Master in your army. Wait... what? You can have more than one Chapter Master? *checks* Oh WTF...

They ain't cheap either. 35 points? Ouch...

Oh look! Marines can do Ravenwing without the need to bring a special character to every battle. I weep for you Dark Angel players. I really do.

Hmm... it appears that a Chapter Master and a Captain can carry odd weapon combos, such as:

Two Boltguns.

Two Storm Bolters.

Two Combi-Weapons.

Two Storm Shields.

Two Relic Blades.

If the above aren't possible, than a Captain/Chapter Master cannot have 2 Lightning Claws except in Terminator Armour.

Ooof! 40 point Storm Shield. I guess Librarians will need it though, with only 2 wounds and no Invul save option other than the Storm Shield.

Space Marine Librarian w/2 Powers - 100 Points.
Chaos Sorcerer w/2 Powers - 165 (minimum).

Even with the Epistolary upgrade the Marine Librarian is 15 points cheaper than the cheapest possible Chaos Sorcerer, and the Epistolary comes with a Psychic Hood (not to be confused with a Psychic Hood from the Dark Angel Codex or a Psychic Hood from the Blood Angel Codex, which are completely different yet have the same names, because that's less confusing than an update FAQ).

Seriously, 10,000 year old Sorcerer dedicated to the God of Magic is less powerful than a Librarian, costs more points, and can't cast two powers a turn. Great work there GW. Tzeentch gets Tzcrewed again!!



This Codex looks like a lot of fun, but boy did DA's, BA's and Chaos get left in the cold with this one.

BYE

Schepp himself wrote:Why would you use a normal chaplain over cassius?

Cassius - About to have a re-released model w/Combi-Flamer.
Chaplain - No new model kit.

Does that answer your question?

BYE

Actually Assault Termies now have a 21"-26" assault range coming out of a Landraider. Thats right, on the first turn you are seriously and utterly fisked. (Damn thats better than what the deathwing get.

Anyways when I read that codex, I laughed histarily, then I cried for my poor boys in green...

HBMC

Why does the Vangar Vet's Power Fist/Hammer/Blade upgrades cost less than everyone else's?

He already paid for a power weapon...........

You really think the Salamander guy is that good?
Combat wise, he has no mobility.
Army wise, how many things actually worth taking can have the equipment he crafts/links? A quick look suggests to me, very little...

I'd also be interested on your take on the Crimson Fist character, and his ability to make Sternguard scoring (oh, and Sternguard in general)

DA have more to gripe about than BA.

BA might pay a little bit more for somethings, but other units are cheaper (VAS vs Vanguard).

The sad thing is that marines, other than a full jumpack army, are essentially much cheaper..... and thus 'better'.

Nice, you can get 5 Land raiders in a single FOC. Of course you have to have at least 2 terminator squads. Excessive, but fun.

Lurker wrote:He already paid for a power weapon...........

Ah yes... Forgot about that.

Lurker wrote:You really think the Salamander guy is that good?
Combat wise, he has no mobility.
Army wise, how many things actually worth taking can have the equipment he crafts/links? A quick look suggests to me, very little...

Lascannons are pathetic in 5th. An AV14 vehicle sitting in 4+ cover is so diffuclt to destroy with a Lascannon it's basically not worth the effort. Meltaguns are the new way forward. This guy helps Meltaguns. By the same token, Flamers come into their own in 5th, with all the cover saves floating about, and this guy makes flamers better.

The Thunderhammer thing is a bonus.

Lurker wrote:I'd also be interested on your take on the Crimson Fist character, and his ability to make Sternguard scoring (oh, and Sternguard in general)

Something nice for all the Crimson Fist players who've been stuck with 2 FA, 2 Elite and 2 HS slots for the past 5-6 years. Not mandatory, but certainly nice.

BYE

H.B.M.C. wrote:Armour of Antilochus? Where have I heard the name Antilochus before...

Could be Autolochus who was the dreadnought in "Brothers of the Snake" that you're thinking of?

Lormax, thank you so much for putting this up here. You are the greatest. Now I can throw away my fears of starting up my space marine army only to have to make significant changes once the new codex comes out. I've had to postpone for about a week and was afraid I'd have to wait until october, but now progress can continue.

Thank you!

Lucas

Yeah, the formatting sux. I'll rename the files to get the order a bit better.

There's an assault squad entry in Fast Attack. Oopsie on leaving it out, I'll fix that (not somewhere that I can fix it at the moment)

I heard the link made it to 4chan before noon. Yay for my 15 minutes of internet fame?

Just checking some stuff out, can a space marine captain take a relic blade and a storm shield to use at the same time even though I believe relic blades are 2-handed weapons. Also, do storm shields still negate the extra attack bonus for CC weapons. If so, then aren't single lightning claws always a better option over the power sword for the same price if taking a storm shield?

Lurker wrote:HBMC

Why does the Vangar Vet's Power Fist/Hammer/Blade upgrades cost less than everyone else's?

He already paid for a power weapon...........

You really think the Salamander guy is that good?
Combat wise, he has no mobility.
Army wise, how many things actually worth taking can have the equipment he crafts/links? A quick look suggests to me, very little...

I'd also be interested on your take on the Crimson Fist character, and his ability to make Sternguard scoring (oh, and Sternguard in general)

Th/ss termies are great now right. He makes em a little better. Thats good. Land speeders can get 2 multi-melta's on a signle speeder. He makes em better.

Also take into account he has a 2+/3+, master crafted s6 power wep, and a twin linked heavy flamer. Throw him in a LR with a termie or vanguard squad. Stick him in a rhino with some a tac squad with a flamer and a sarge with a combi flamer. he has many uses. How many of those characters with the exception of shrike and khan have mobility?

I personally think sternguard are nuts. With the right combi weps taken they can pretty much take on just about anything. I'm looking at 4 combi-meltas for my sallies. So we have 4 meltas for tanks/MC's, always wound on 2+ or ignore cover bolters for everything else. Was that a C'tan? Avatar? Hellfire rounds are nuts.

you may replace bp and/ or ccw with:
-boltgun
-storm bolter
-combi weapon
-storm shield
-power sword
-lightning claw
-plasma pistol
-power fist
-relic blade
-thunder hammer

so you can take any combination of the two regardless of weapon type(1 vs. 2 handed)

if you are taking a storm shield yes there is no point in a regular power weapon, because for the same points you can reroll with the claw

Lormax wrote:Yeah, the formatting sux. I'll rename the files to get the order a bit better.

There's an assault squad entry in Fast Attack. Oopsie on leaving it out, I'll fix that (not somewhere that I can fix it at the moment)

I heard the link made it to forchan before noon. Yay for my 15 minutes of internet fame?

We really need the pages in order and a way to scroll from page to page.

Snap to it!

Scrolling from page to page won't happen. I unfortunately don't control the features that the site provides :(

I can get the pages in order and already know how I'll rename them to do it.

OR

I can just put up the URL links to em. Clicking on them would bring up only that pic. I didn't do this at first since I thought the gallery style would make it more convenient for people to view.

Save em, re name em and put em in a slideshow. Easy peasy. Thanks again for the link Lormax. Got the gears whirling on how to retool my Salamanders.

Was someone saying locator beacons IN a squad that gets out of a drop pod? Not possible, from what I read. only scout biker sergeants have the locator beacon. Marine and scout sergeants can have Teleport homers again tho, so that's good.

GrimTeef wrote:Was someone saying locator beacons IN a squad that gets out of a drop pod? Not possible, from what I read. only scout biker sergeants have the locator beacon. Marine and scout sergeants can have Teleport homers again tho, so that's good.

No, someone was saying locator beacons bolted onto the drop pod itself.

With the need for meltaguns for tank hunting, are small squads of attack bikes now the way to go?

Also, we need the rules pages scanned!

Right now, the codex seems rather nice, you can make a lot of different armies with it without one being terribly underpowered (Eldar codex style) which is good!

Sad thing is that they brought the "special" characters back into the game but not as specials, as mandatory. Oh, and on top of that they change your army composition which I don't like at all. My quasi-Salamander chapter doesn't want to be lead by this vulkan guy in every battle...

Greets
Schepp himself

EDIT: Oh, and imo, the "new model = awesome rules" is becoming too much with this codex (Sternguard, Scout Land speeder, special characters...)

H.B.M.C. wrote:Why is the first Servitor worth 10 points, but each one after that worth 15? Why, at WS3 BS3 S3 I3 T3 Sv4+ are they worth 1 point less than a Marine? Wait, I know - They're not getting a new model kit!. Of course...

They have servo harnesses. Essentially walking, 15 point power fists.