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I never said I wouldn't like the idea of lots of different units. It would be great to play different races.

My concern is that GW cannot make it as balanced as it originally was if they do.

It they do make different races incorporated into the game and it is as good if not better than the original, I would be the first in line to happily eat my words and play some awesome new space hulk games.

I am quite eager for GW to prove me wrong in fact.

A past bad track record isn't simply forgotten though. Hence my extreme skepticism.

Regardless, I have heard nothing about new races. The only real 'solid' rumours I have seen from two sources say that Space Hulk has:

10 terminators. All new sculpts. Each pose unique though perhaps only varying slightly.

Sculpted terrain bases. Libby descending a set of stairs is one example.

Card Tiles enlarged to accommodate 40mm bases.

No word on 'stealers.

Its the most I have heard about the game other than vagueries that it will return on top of what BOLS posted.

Card Tiles? I thought the printing costs on such things was so high as to make it financially unviable? I mean, the reason we lost everything card in GW's games was because of the costs - has that now changed in the UK?

Also I would hope that the Space Hulk boxed game would be contained within itself - Genestealers, Terminators and then maybe some rules for Terminator Librarians and Brood Lords for those who own them. But that's it - the boxed game is its own entity. Not 40K-Lite, not rules for other races, but a single entity that stands on its own.

Later on they can introduce other races, maybe one or two expansions, but don't fail horribly like the later expansions did. An Orky Hulk using the Black Lagoon Orks would be a good start - Ork themed board pieces and models. And then a Chaos one, and then leave it.

No need for anything else and I doubt that we'll be seeing Hybrids any time soon again, sadly.

@Hellfury-I understand your skepticism.

Sometimes dealing with GW you gotta hope for the best but prepare for the worst.


Any word on whether the card tiles are plastic or still going to be actual Card tiles. If they are the regular cards I may be buying a bunch of Plasti-card or equivalent to glue them to. Then I'll lamintate the faces.

My friends and I play a lot of our games,board and 40K, outside. Wind can be a nuisance.

two_heads_talking wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:

two_heads_talking wrote:Well, he is following a trend no?

Was that directed at me, or are you just trying to be cute?

sorry, I forgot about t his thread.. It was a comment about Green following a trend of stating things and not backing them up..

so, not directed at you, but in regards to what you said, and yes, I was trying to be cute..

Hey dude why don't you give it a break for once? I am not going to reveal my source... That's your problem if it gets your panties all knotted up in a knicker. Typically I back up what I say, in this case I won't so stop with the slagging and go find someone else to troll.

G

H.B.M.C. wrote:Card Tiles? I thought the printing costs on such things was so high as to make it financially unviable? I mean, the reason we lost everything card in GW's games was because of the costs - has that now changed in the UK?

No clue. The jib jab I get is rather conflicting in this area. Half say card and swear by the gods they have seen the art. The other half is likewise convinced of plastic swearing that they have seen the CAD drawings. Not much past that is shared.

On the one hand, card tiles make perfect sense if they really do want to make this a standalone boardgame aimed at a broader audience. This makes it visually appealing to those types who do not hobby, only leaving the minis to be painted.

On the other hand, plastic tiles also make perfect sense as any profit from this can be nearly purely in house. The only print costs would be books and boxes. It appeals more to the core consumer demographic that GW has.

My opinion is that if any of the above is true the card tiles will be released in the box as standard. I also think GW will not let an opportunity pass by and that the rumored plastic tiles will also be made available. More than likely a direct order only affair for maximum profit shakedown.

There is also rumor that this is going to be a brief release, not meant for long term sales. Similar to what GW did when they re-released talisman a few years ago just to renew the copyright of the game or some such.

In short, I seriously doubt any and all rumors until we get closer to the end of the summer.

Hmmm, would not put it past them to do the board game with "Printed in China" card tiles, but release seperate plastic tiles. Thing is the tiles will got bought in DROVES for terrain!

If the figures are unpainted, why not unpainted tiles? Unless they are planning something mad like coloured figures (ie RED plastic terminators, PURPLE plastic Genestealers, GREY plastic tiles)

If they do a limited release, for copywrite, I'd expect nothing more then basic GS/Temi and nothing else! They just wont expend the money!

D

No offense perceived or taken, or intended in response.

After the whole Talisman thing, I just don't see GW getting back into boardgames, Space Hulk being a trenemdous property notwithstanding.

I mean, it'd be cool if GW decided to do a 10-year anniversary edition of Bommaz, or even a re-release of Dark Future / Dracula's Fury.

But GW has finally figured out that they're a vertically-integrated miniatures company, and acts accordingly, so SH2 should necessarily drive minis sales of some fashion, or I can't imagine GW green-lighting a one-shot for a small amount of money.

Druidic wrote:Hmmm, would not put it past them to do the board game with "Printed in China" card tiles, but release seperate plastic tiles. Thing is the tiles will got bought in DROVES for terrain!

If the figures are unpainted, why not unpainted tiles? Unless they are planning something mad like coloured figures (ie RED plastic terminators, PURPLE plastic Genestealers, GREY plastic tiles)

If they do a limited release, for copywrite, I'd expect nothing more then basic GS/Temi and nothing else! They just wont expend the money!

D

If the tiles are plastic they probably won't be painted, colored plastic I could see, but not pre-painted. Paper products aren't economical to print oversees unless you can sell them for a high enough mark up; like college text books. Shipping a hard cover book within a country can often out cost the book. The weight of shipping thick high density cardboard around the world a couple of time would be more. Having worked in China I can tell you how quickly it would add up. Those cost begin to quickly out weigh the cost of GW's in house capabilities of producing plastic. Even the largest sprue GW has probably only costs them $2-$3 in raw materials, so beyond the initial investment of tool design etc. their per piece cost is that. With a multi-colored printed paper product they would have to be shipped to packaging centers that single card tile quickly moves from being less than a dollar to almost the same. Also GW already has the infrastructure to do plastic, setting something up with china would require additional investments whether its sending someone over there to ensure quality control (cause they will try to rip you off if they can) or hiring an interpreter; those costs add up and create inertia that opposes something new. All that and it doesn't address legal issues, the Chinese might use the wrong ink and you end up with a product band in the EU or you have to recall cause their traces of lead or toxins; keeping it in house alleviates much of those concerns. I think if you look at the Warhammer movement trays sprues it gives you an idea of what to expect as far as sprue layout.

Plastic or paper, it'll be an expensive box set... it will end up having more in it than AoBR.
The cost is what brings to my next point... on the issue of terminator bases I think GW will give them the smaller basses, if for no other reason than it means they can make the tiles smaller. This set will already be pushing the price high so they will probably do their best to keep it down. The rough volume of plastic saved would save them ~$0.25 per sprue, in the neighborhood of $10 off the box.

I don't understand where the idea that the printed tiles would be too expensive. FFG, produces numerous board games with lots of printed tiles for around the $60-$80 price point. Take the Doom boardgame, arguably the closest analog to Space Hulk on the market right now. It comes with literally 3 pounds of cardboard tiles and they made the game affordable. surely GW can do the same.

My money is on a full-plastic set for $80.

"High end" boardgames like Descent or Battlelore get priced at that level. That gives GW enough markup to do large scale plastic sprues like the Baneblade in the box. I'd guess it'll be:
- Dedicated tile sprues (ie no other bitz on them). GW can release them as a standalone for 40k scenery or people who want to expand their SH sets. Bonus points if they're somehow compatible with cityfight building sprues to utilize as walls (but that's a gigantic longshot).
- A recut sprue with Terminators from AoBR and Genestealers from McCragge or somesuch variation
- A colored "game bitz" sprue with blips, jams, overwatch/flamer tokens, C.A.T.S., and whatever else

It's pretty much a perfect setup for them. It lets them keep their production in-house, leverages their existing plastics capabilities, and means every part of the set is able to be painted (more opportunity for selling paints).

As for rules, personally I think GW would be insane not to use the original ruleset - it's a well respected system, self-contained, and a great way to bring in non-wargamers in without overwhelming them. But at the end of the day, it's trivial to get ahold of the original rules, so if they decided to shoot themselves in the foot with kill-team rules I can keep them in the box.

rwwin wrote:I don't understand where the idea that the printed tiles would be too expensive. FFG, produces numerous board games with lots of printed tiles for around the $60-$80 price point. Take the Doom boardgame, arguably the closest analog to Space Hulk on the market right now. It comes with literally 3 pounds of cardboard tiles and they made the game affordable. surely GW can do the same.

Because GW hasn't done cardstock printing in... 15 years? The cost for them to setup a division to do so would be incredibly high and not worth the investment for 1 game. And GW has had a huge aversion to outsourcing their production for at least a decade. Expecting FFG to create a release something like a plastic Stompa would be just as silly to expect from them - they're a board game, not miniatures company. Yes they include minis in several games but you're nuts if you think they are anything close to GW quality.

crackbone wrote:Because GW hasn't done cardstock printing in... 15 years? The cost for them to setup a division to do so would be incredibly high and not worth the investment for 1 game. And GW has had a huge aversion to outsourcing their production for at least a decade. Expecting FFG to create a release something like a plastic Stompa would be just as silly to expect from them - they're a board game, not miniatures company. Yes they include minis in several games but you're nuts if you think they are anything close to GW quality.

OK, so where does GW get their card stock game boxes? True it's apples to oranges, different weights and printing, but if you can outsource one thing you can outsource another. And no I don't think the FFG figures are of comparable quality, simply that their dungeoncrawl style boardgames are the clostest thing on the market today to what it sounds like the new space hulk would be.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see a box with a full plastic tiles, I just don't see it as radically cheaper than card stock or cardboard. Also, if they're going to go with plastic over print tiles, what are they going to do with all the various counters and tokens? Plastic too? That's a lot of sprues to jam into one box.

rwwin wrote:OK, so where does GW get their card stock game boxes?

High-density cardboard for actual cardstock is a world apart from the packaging they use. And GW's packaging has recently (and by recently I mean 'when the Baneblade came out) gotten much thinner. My baneblade boxes crush far more easily than my older boxes.

rwwin wrote:

crackbone wrote:Because GW hasn't done cardstock printing in... 15 years? The cost for them to setup a division to do so would be incredibly high and not worth the investment for 1 game. And GW has had a huge aversion to outsourcing their production for at least a decade. Expecting FFG to create a release something like a plastic Stompa would be just as silly to expect from them - they're a board game, not miniatures company. Yes they include minis in several games but you're nuts if you think they are anything close to GW quality.

OK, so where does GW get their card stock game boxes? True it's apples to oranges, different weights and printing, but if you can outsource one thing you can outsource another. And no I don't think the FFG figures are of comparable quality, simply that their dungeoncrawl style boardgames are the clostest thing on the market today to what it sounds like the new space hulk would be.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see a box with a full plastic tiles, I just don't see it as radically cheaper than card stock or cardboard. Also, if they're going to go with plastic over print tiles, what are they going to do with all the various counters and tokens? Plastic too? That's a lot of sprues to jam into one box.

H.B.M.C. already pointed out "gaming" cardstock has little resemblance to box packaging. Especially when you start factoring in the cost of custom dies to cut out counters/tiles for ease of punching, the materials need to print/laminate cardstock vs. box packaging, etc.

You're right of course, there's a tremendous amount of plastic in one box for a new, all-plastic SH. But, really, is it more than what you get in a baneblade? Or even AoBR? 5 Termies/16 Genestealers is maybe a third of what's in AoBR box. 2mm plastic tiles/counters wouldn't be that much more material intenstive - the cost would largely be in the molds.

$80 for Space Hulk? Ouch.

I was thinking 40k-ified Mighty Empires:
- squared tiles instead of hexes
- some minis
- small rulebook
As it'd basically be a swap, the price point would be the same.

Yep, but same as the last thread we did on this, I thought your lower price estimates were hopeful in the extreme. My expectation is that it'll be a 'never mind the cost, feel the quality' type release. Bear in mind that Talisman, a purely cardstock boardgame, retails at £40 in the UK, and Space Hulk will have a similar level of brand name value attached.

Again, just in case it was missed, this is not a 40k gateway, so there's no loss leader logic in play.

Kilkrazy wrote:I have to say I disagree.

The game ought to be a tight, fast-playing, standalone wargame in a box, not just an expansion for 40K.

Tight and fast-playing limits the possibilities for adding extra troops IMO. In the original rules, it was easy to see how to add ordinary SMs.

Well said.

If they want to mess with the game add expansions. If the expansions suck, i'll just stick with the base game.

Space Hulk needs to be a boxed wargame, not a 40k expansion. As I said before there are many, many people who want to play Space Hulk but not 40K.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Card Tiles? I thought the printing costs on such things was so high as to make it financially unviable? I mean, the reason we lost everything card in GW's games was because of the costs - has that now changed in the UK?

Also I would hope that the Space Hulk boxed game would be contained within itself - Genestealers, Terminators and then maybe some rules for Terminator Librarians and Brood Lords for those who own them. But that's it - the boxed game is its own entity. Not 40K-Lite, not rules for other races, but a single entity that stands on its own.

Later on they can introduce other races, maybe one or two expansions, but don't fail horribly like the later expansions did. An Orky Hulk using the Black Lagoon Orks would be a good start - Ork themed board pieces and models. And then a Chaos one, and then leave it.

No need for anything else and I doubt that we'll be seeing Hybrids any time soon again, sadly.

I'd agree with most of that, but.....

You are correct in their ultimatley being limited takers for actual space bound adventures. But, as a sort of Kill Team in a Hive, or similar heavily corridored environ, I think we could see all the races taking part. Though I don't fancy the Tau's chance much to be perfectly honest!

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:Card Tiles? I thought the printing costs on such things was so high as to make it financially unviable? I mean, the reason we lost everything card in GW's games was because of the costs - has that now changed in the UK?

Also I would hope that the Space Hulk boxed game would be contained within itself - Genestealers, Terminators and then maybe some rules for Terminator Librarians and Brood Lords for those who own them. But that's it - the boxed game is its own entity. Not 40K-Lite, not rules for other races, but a single entity that stands on its own.

Later on they can introduce other races, maybe one or two expansions, but don't fail horribly like the later expansions did. An Orky Hulk using the Black Lagoon Orks would be a good start - Ork themed board pieces and models. And then a Chaos one, and then leave it.

No need for anything else and I doubt that we'll be seeing Hybrids any time soon again, sadly.

I'd agree with most of that, but.....

You are correct in their ultimatley being limited takers for actual space bound adventures. But, as a sort of Kill Team in a Hive, or similar heavily corridored environ, I think we could see all the races taking part. Though I don't fancy the Tau's chance much to be perfectly honest!

Being able to move from cover, shoot, and then move back behind cover is pretty awesome in spaceship corridors - which tend to be long, narrow kill-zones otherwise.

I'm buying the game for the Dark Heresy uses for the tiles alone.

Personally, I'd like to see an expansion covering combat on a ship. Pretty much SH, really, but GW could do it, package it with one of those little rulebooks and a slew of new models and plastic terrain (as the cardstock tiles would absolutely suck badly)and say 'look kids! Space Hulk!!!' And it would sell like crack in the hood.
Or hot new figs to us junkies.
Really though, its one area GW hasn't covered. I think it would combine potential environmental hazards (cuz spehss muhreenz wouldn't hesitate to open up with plasma and melta shots in a pressurised ship in deep space) with the close range fury of CoD.
Or maybe I'm simply a slowed grot. Its entirely possible.
Either way, ill shell out the $$ simply because, odds are, it'll be freakin sweet.

Personally, I'd like to see an expansion covering combat on a ship. Pretty much SH, really, but GW could do it, package it with one of those little rulebooks and a slew of new models and plastic terrain (as the cardstock tiles would absolutely suck badly)and say 'look kids! Space Hulk!!!' And it would sell like crack in the hood.
Or hot new figs to us junkies.
Really though, its one area GW hasn't covered. I think it would combine potential environmental hazards (cuz spehss muhreenz wouldn't hesitate to open up with plasma and melta shots in a pressurised ship in deep space) with the close range fury of CoD.
Or maybe I'm simply a slowed grot. Its entirely possible.
Either way, ill shell out the $$ simply because, odds are, it'll be freakin sweet.

Wow there is alot of stuff to read through on this! I agree we will most likely see the $80 box set price. And why not, as no one seems to be baulking at BaneBlades and Stompas!

I bet they dont have any problem selling this game, paper or plastic tiles. Reguardless of the current economic issues facing us I think people will do as they always have during these type of times and buy distraction stuff! What I would not mind seeing is Chapter spacific Termi in the box and then Limited ( later to be kept along if they sell well *wink*wink* ) box set of other chapter spacific Termi squads. If these sell well, keep em if not ditch em. If they attach them to Space Hulk they can easly deep six them if they dont do well. Add on packs of plastic tiles to expand you Hulk etc, all this could easily be done. Cost prohibitive? Well who knows but They could do it to good effect I think. They have done all this in the past on a rotaional basis, no reason they could not give it another go!

As for rules? An expansion to the main game containing "boarding actions" for all races/unit types. I mean who dosnt want to see some Guard running into the nids?! Tau board hulks too right? I would think the more you offer your target audience to use stuff they already bought from you the more box/books you would sell. I mean if I was a strict Tau player who had no real interest in Marines or Nids but thought the setting was cool I would be alot more interested in buying a box set/rules set that allowed me to use my Tau in the setting.

I hope they do re-release an updated version of this game.

yeah,
We could be missing a trick here. maybe GW did a deal with FFG...

FFG has the infrastructure to make card games.
GW has the Cool IP sitting around doing nothing.
maybe they traded skills and time. FFG get to do Talisman in trade for Space Hulk Printing Support.

Just an Idea?

PAnic...

JohnHwangDD wrote:$80 for Space Hulk? Ouch.

I was thinking 40k-ified Mighty Empires:
- squared tiles instead of hexes
- some minis
- small rulebook
As it'd basically be a swap, the price point would be the same.

Ouch? When it was released in it's second edition it was 69.99.. and that was what 10 years ago? A 10 dollar increase in 10 years, that's not much at all.. I'm actually ok with that price, if it has similar contents to what it had then..

Green Blow Fly wrote:
Hey dude why don't you give it a break for once? I am not going to reveal my source... That's your problem if it gets your panties all knotted up in a knicker. Typically I back up what I say, in this case I won't so stop with the slagging and go find someone else to troll.

G

My point is as valid now as it was when I said it.. If that gets your knickers in a twist I don't really care. and again, my point was show the proof, otherwise, it's just smoke..

@ Panic - Yeah, but then GW has to play interesting IP games with local law. If it dilutes their IP in any way (see also: Damnatus fan film) GW won't risk it. Better to keep it in house.

IMHO there's two ways they can go with this -
Off scaled stand alone game: Lots of new dies to cut for this, but GW has the facilities to do this. As a gateway to their product, they ensure buying a whole new array of products moving into a new game.

On scale gateway game:
Reduced profit on Terminators and Stealers boxes, but dies keep in production for longer (reduces profit per print, raises profit over lifetime of the die). 40+mm scale tiles used as gateway for hobbyists into Cities of Death product and spur to Apocalypse/Planetfall related sales.

Both drive more sales, but the second is a more long term (6+year) plan, out of character for GW's 2006-8 financial statements...but a solid sell to investors. But if I had about 2m USD, I could ask them better questions and claim 'Due Diligence' on investments.

Anyone want to donate to the 'Due Diligence' fund?

two_heads_talking wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:$80 for Space Hulk? Ouch.

I was thinking 40k-ified Mighty Empires:
- squared tiles instead of hexes
- some minis
- small rulebook
As it'd basically be a swap, the price point would be the same.

Ouch? When it was released in it's second edition it was 69.99.. and that was what 10 years ago? A 10 dollar increase in 10 years, that's not much at all.. I'm actually ok with that price, if it has similar contents to what it had then..

Yeah, but I'm looking for a $20 decrease like AoBR and BfSP.

Besides, it's not like GW won't sell bunches just for the extra tiles if the price is right and they throw in a few "large map" scenarios...

Just sell a minimalist product that encourages players to buy more boxes.