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So what, you want to make Leman Russ tanks even MORE powerful?

Sure. The upside is it is making autocannons and plasma cannons more powerful also.

Things which the Guard have plenty of. Plascan sponsons on Leman Russ tanks are already quite popular (due to vehicles not suffering Gets Hot!). But I was also talking about the LRBT. For a mere 150 points, you'd effectively get an S8 AP1 Ordnance weapon if it hits a vehicle directly, compared to now, where it's merely S8 AP3 ordnance. That would be a notable buff. I wouldn't complain about a buff to sentinel autocannons and plasma cannons, to be sure, but the heavy support options really don't need that kind of buff.

Why don't Power Weapons have the +1 Damage boost?

i thik you mean strength and its because that would make frost weapons obselete

Making AC blast is silly, it fires bullets, not grenades.

bullets not grenades huh? The fact that those "bullets" are filled with High explosive means nothing to you??

cmon, the bullets ARE grenades

why not just make em bigger?

Because then it's not an autocannon, but something else.

Boltguns also fire explosive rounds, doesn't mean they deserve a blast.

sure, but thats because the gun cant take a caliber bullet big enough for a decent explosion, and dont try to tell me the Autocannon is too small as well, if modern day peoples can create the HE 50mm grenade im sure the 40000 peoples could create a "blast" shot for the Autocannon, which as i understand it is about 50cal, which is about 60mm


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bolter = 30mm rounds (roughly)

modern day HE grenades = 50mm

Autocannon = 60mm (roughly)

Tyranic Marta wrote:sure, but thats because the gun cant take a caliber bullet big enough for a decent explosion,

Boltgun = .75 cal, roughly 20mm.
Heavy Bolter = 1.00 cal, roughly 30mm.

Autocannons don't have a fragmentation effect, therefor they have no blast. They are also not ludicrously high explosive like the Battle Cannon.

Tyranic Marta wrote:bullets not grenades huh? The fact that those "bullets" are filled with High explosive means nothing to you??

cmon, the bullets ARE grenades

why not just make em bigger?

The Ac Fires mass-reactive, high explosive ammunition, much the same as the Bolters but of a bigger caliber. these are high velocity rounds, and would work in a similar fashion to HEAT ammo in modern warfare, or basically a high velocity, smaller caliber, krak missile (which is worse than just a straight rod at penetrating tanks, but anyway). A blast shell would be of a much bigger caliber than the AC shells, also, they would fire at a slower rate. The autocannon is just not designed for 'blast type' ammunition, or to take on those types of targets.

If you want a blast weapon just suggest a missile launcher on a Pred, or a Plasma cannon as has been suggested before (I like this idea too). There is no need to go modifying a weapon in silly ways to get to effect you can get with another weapon.

Solution for Blast Weapon talk: Two Twin Linked Missile Launchers for Predator turret weapon. Deathwind Missile Launcher Sponsons.

Your Friend Doctor Robert wrote:Solution for Blast Weapon talk: Two Twin Linked Missile Launchers for Predator turret weapon. Deathwind Missile Launcher Sponsons.

A Typhoon or Cyclone missile launcher is Heavy 2.

sure cause chaos can take any of those options



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what is done has to be good for all factions

Tyranic Marta wrote:sure cause chaos can take any of those options



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what is done has to be good for all factions

Chaos can take a havoc launcher, which is a different thing. Besides, what is done for marines and what is done for Chaos should be different, for instance Chaos does not have the Annihilator pattern (unless you are playing the Dawn of War computer game) since this was constructed after the heresy. What would be good for Chaos would be some weird daemonic weapon options. Removing them further from Marines is a good thing for the game as a whole.

Melissia wrote:Things which the Guard have plenty of. Plascan sponsons on Leman Russ tanks are already quite popular (due to vehicles not suffering Gets Hot!). But I was also talking about the LRBT. For a mere 150 points, you'd effectively get an S8 AP1 Ordnance weapon if it hits a vehicle directly, compared to now, where it's merely S8 AP3 ordnance. That would be a notable buff. I wouldn't complain about a buff to sentinel autocannons and plasma cannons, to be sure, but the heavy support options really don't need that kind of buff.

true. well said melissa. this "direct hit bonus" would make vanquishers redundant.


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Tyranic Marta wrote:sure, but thats because the gun cant take a caliber bullet big enough for a decent explosion, and dont try to tell me the Autocannon is too small as well, if modern day peoples can create the HE 50mm grenade im sure the 40000 peoples could create a "blast" shot for the Autocannon, which as i understand it is about 50cal, which is about 60mm


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bolter = 30mm rounds (roughly)

modern day HE grenades = 50mm

Autocannon = 60mm (roughly)

actualy the bolter OR gyrojet grenade launcher as it is also known is a 20mm weapon.

the autocannon is around 50-60mm.

Yes please stop with silly stat changes to the autocannon. Just allow more turret, and sponson options.
TL AC +15
TL PC +60
PC Sponsons +80

That is more than enough to cover all bases. Including current options.

master of ordinance wrote:actualy the bolter OR gyrojet grenade launcher as it is also known

No.

The bolter is NOT a FETHING gyrojet launcher. How many damn times do we have to go over this misconception?

Gyrojet launchers are pitifully low power at short range, with essentially no armor penetration because it is purely a rocket round-- it has to get up to speed first. Bolt weapons have the same penetration at all ranges, as they are a combination rocket and bullet. Bolter shells contain enough initial charge to have the bolter penetrate flak armor at basically point blank range, and the rocket kicks in only after it leaves the barrel (the weapon is described as having a very unique sound because it essentially has three explosions in short succession-- initial charge, first ignition of the rocket, and the explosive charge once it penetrates).

Gyrojet Grenade Launcher doesnt even make sense

Melissia wrote:

master of ordinance wrote:actualy the bolter OR gyrojet grenade launcher as it is also known

No.

The bolter is NOT a FETHING gyrojet launcher. How many damn times do we have to go over this misconception?

Gyrojet launchers are pitifully low power at short range, with essentially no armor penetration because it is purely a rocket round-- it has to get up to speed first. Bolt weapons have the same penetration at all ranges, as they are a combination rocket and bullet. Bolter shells contain enough initial charge to have the bolter penetrate flak armor at basically point blank range, and the rocket kicks in only after it leaves the barrel (the weapon is described as having a very unique sound because it essentially has three explosions in short succession-- initial charge, first ignition of the rocket, and the explosive charge once it penetrates).

actualy (drum roll please)...................................................IT IS the bolt round uses a multi stage launch method.

Stage 1 initial propelant is ignited and bolt round leaves barrel of bolter essentialy in the same way as a bullet.

Stage 2 gyrojet system ignites at preset distance and boosts bolt which is already flying at initial muzzle velocity to target.

Stage 3 bolt impacts. equivalent of shoving a grenade inside of someone. enough said.

master of ordinance wrote:

Melissia wrote:

master of ordinance wrote:actualy the bolter OR gyrojet grenade launcher as it is also known

No.

The bolter is NOT a FETHING gyrojet launcher. How many damn times do we have to go over this misconception?

Gyrojet launchers are pitifully low power at short range, with essentially no armor penetration because it is purely a rocket round-- it has to get up to speed first. Bolt weapons have the same penetration at all ranges, as they are a combination rocket and bullet. Bolter shells contain enough initial charge to have the bolter penetrate flak armor at basically point blank range, and the rocket kicks in only after it leaves the barrel (the weapon is described as having a very unique sound because it essentially has three explosions in short succession-- initial charge, first ignition of the rocket, and the explosive charge once it penetrates).

actualy (drum roll please)...................................................IT IS the bolt round uses a multi stage launch method.

Stage 1 initial propelant is ignited and bolt round leaves barrel of bolter essentialy in the same way as a bullet.

Stage 2 gyrojet system ignites at preset distance and boosts bolt which is already flying at initial muzzle velocity to target.

Stage 3 bolt impacts. equivalent of shoving a grenade inside of someone. enough said.

Hey look, someone is repeating what I just said.

I'm glad you corrected your previous mistake by learning from my post.

Melissia is right, tht is how the bolter works. The 3rd explosion actually has a slight delay so that the round can penetrate before exploding causing maximum damage.

There are rifles that fire grenade type bullets (the new XM25 is a great example) however these are not comparable to the bolter or autocannon as they are different in both target and operation. Based on this, whether or not you could make a 'grenade' type round for the AC is irrelevant, its just not made to be used like that.

This thread is so off topic it's silly.

not realy, we are trying to make a way for the predator to be better, to do this some of us want to give the autocannon a blast template, we are now trying to justify or disclaim this idea

Cyclone Missile Launcher for turret weapon. Problem solved.

No 1
Chaos cant take those

No 2
Something has just Occurred to me
isnt this kind of thread pointless as GW is unlikely to change stuff like this anyway?

Might as well say that about the whole Proposed Rules forum.

I often do... in my head anyway

No, there is no reason to give the AC a blast template. Then it wouldn't even be an Autocannon.

Plasma cannons would be the better way to go.(IF you want blast) Leave the AC stats alone.

I say again. I would like to see: TL AC turret, TL PC turret and maybe TL Plasma Gun sponsons.

No NEW weapons or changing stat lines for current systems.

This is a missile based Predator variant I came up with a while back.

Predator Hellstreak

BS: 4 Armor: F: 13 S: 11 R: 10

Turret Weapon: Two Twin Linked Missile Launchers(Fired as a single weapon)
Sponson Weapons: Deathwind Missile Launchers

Rules: Special Issue Missiles

In addition to the standard Frag and Krak missiles, the Hellstreak Predator may fire either Hellstreak Missiles or Thunderbolt Missiles(See below) Each launcher must fire the same type of missile, and only from the launcher, not the Deathwind launchers.

Hellstreak Missiles

Range: 48" S: X AP: - Type: Ignores Cover, Large Blast, Poisoned(4+), Offensive

*Offensive: Though they have no Strength value, Hellstreak Missiles do not count as Defensive weapons.

Thunderbolt Missiles

Range: 48" S: X AP: 1 Type: Thunderbolt

Thunderbolt: This weapon has no effect on Infantry. However, when targeting vehicles, ignore standard armor penetration, and roll a d6. On a 1, the hit fails to penetrate. On a 2, 3, 4, or 5, the hit is a Glancing Hit, and on a 6, the hit is a Penetrating Hit.