Predator Discussion

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**Your Friend Doctor Robert**

Maybe leave the Predator with 13/11/10, but allow it to be taken in Squadrons of up to 3?

**Tyranic Marta**

meh if one gets immobilized the whole lot are screwed, not worth it, instead i think that it would be cool if you can have up to three tanks per slot but they cout as separate units

**Your Friend Doctor Robert**

Tyranic Marta wrote:meh if one gets immobilized the whole lot are screwed, not worth it, instead i think that it would be cool if you can have up to three tanks per slot but they cout as separate units

Sure, let's just throw the existing conventions for multiple vehicles in one slot entirely out of the window.

**Tyranic Marta**

I see no problems with it, the astartes are not the kind of faction to rely on "squads" of tanks, rather a few independant vehicles acting as solo hunters o support units, a squad seems completely out of character for them

landspeeders are the exception here, but for good reason, its because they are a light support vehicle, not a battle tank

you cant attach the conventions of guardsmen to Astartes, or chaos for that matter

**Luke_Prowler**

I honestly don't see what's wrong with the Predator. It's cost effective. Not every option needs to completely destroy it's target.

**Tyranic Marta**

As the player of an elites army i strongly dissagree, i dont have the luxury of multiple units targetting the same model to take it down, i often have to use one unit to wipe out multipule models over the course of a game, that means that each of my choices needs to not only be able to kill its standard target but all the other ones in its line of sight as well, this is the reason that i no longer run lascannons o the predator, because i personally find them less effective than the chainfists i run on my terminators, the autocannon and heavy bolters however tend to be exceptional against everything i target with them, namely rank and file troops and elites choices, terminators to gaunts nothing survives, but i often dont run a predator at all because it is a heavy support slot that is often wiped out quickly, whereas my havok squads with 4* autocannons often survive right till the end of the game racking up several kill marks. Personally i would use predators more often if i could have more than one of them per slot.

**Luke_Prowler**

It would be nice to take them in squadrons, I have nothing against that, I just don't think it needs a power boost.

**Tyranic Marta**

yeah i kind of agree with you after ive thought about it and read this thread,

**Your Friend Doctor Robert**

Wait; the Invaders are basically the "Armored Assault" chapter of Marines, so why not give them a commander that lets them take Predators in squadrons?

Julian Kallarn, Captain of the Invaders 3rd Company: 165 Points

WS: 6 BS: 5 S: 4 T: 4 W: 3 I: 5 A: 3 Ld: 10 Sv: 2+(4++)

Special Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear, Combat Tactics, Chapter Tactics, Independent Character

Wargear: Combi-Plasma, Lightning Claw, Frag and Krak Grenades, Artificer Armor, Iron Halo

Chapter Tactics: If you take Kallarn in your army, all units in your army lose the Combat Tactics rule. Instead, you may take an Invaders Armored Spear as a Heavy Support Choice

---

Invaders Armored Spear: Vehicle Squadron

Unit Consists of: 1-3 Predators, 0-2 Whirlwinds, 0-2 Vindicators

Predator: 60 Points per tank

Wargear: Autocannon

Armor: 13/11/10

Upgrades: Replace Autocannon with Twin Linked Lascannon: +45 Points
Take Heavy Bolter Sponsons: +25 Points
Or Lascannon Sponsons: +60 Points

Vindicator: 115 Points per tank

Wargear: Demolisher Cannon

Take a siege shield: 10 Points

Armor: 13/11/10

Whirlwind: 85 Points Per Tank

Any tank may take any of the following
A Storm Bolter: 10 points
A Hunter-Killer Missile: 10 Points
A dozer blade: 5 Points
Extra Armour: 15 Points

Brother Sergeant Chronus may not be assigned to any tank in an Invaders Armored Spear

**Tyranic Marta**

and what does that do for all the other chapters and factions?

**Your Friend Doctor Robert**

It doesn't, but doesn't it make sense for the Invaders to have the SM tank commander?

**Tyranic Marta**

sure, but how would you giv3e the other factions a solution to the problem?

**Your Friend Doctor Robert**

Cut the Predator's cost by 10 points, or make the Autocannon twin-linked.

**Guaiwu**

Your Friend Doctor Robert wrote:Cut the Predator's cost by 10 points, or make the Autocannon twin-linked.

Or just leave it exactly as is because it is quite ok, and still useful, if sub-optimal. Whereas there are many other units that are not even remotely useful *cough* insult marines *cough*

**Tyranic Marta**

cough possessed cough bikers cough dread cough

**Guaiwu**

Tyranic Marta wrote:cough possessed cough bikers cough dread cough

Well, if we are going to talk about Chaos *cough* spawn *cough* raptors *cough* everything not in the troops or HS sections *cough*

**dajobe**

that was some very truthful and informative coughing, and i agreed with both sides, especially the raptors, my friend always uses them and they always die before they do anything, often just from one combat squad of marines, its a waste of points for him in my opinion

**Tyranic Marta**

Personally i think the chosen termies and HQ's are pretty good, i still run a pair of lash princes and they tend to butcher everything

**AlmightyWalrus**

There's nothing wrong with Chaos Bikers, Terminators or Chosen. That's one fast attack and two elites that are actually playable without gimping your list.

**Guaiwu**

AlmightyWalrus wrote:There's nothing wrong with Chaos Bikers, Terminators or Chosen. That's one fast attack and two elites that are actually playable without gimping your list.

I'll give you terminators and chosen (except chosen should be slightly better than normal CSM) I use them both, but bikers? Suicide melta unit (minimal effect, high cost) or daemon delivery and suicide unit, not great for anything really.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tyranic Marta wrote:Personally i think the chosen termies and HQ's are pretty good, i still run a pair of lash princes and they tend to butcher everything

Daemon princes are good, mostly because they have one upgrade *cough* wings *cough* that is way under priced. All other HQ's are meh compared to that. It basically forces your build along one of 2 lines, both of which are lead by a DP (or 2), don't see much else out there.

**AlmightyWalrus**

Guaiwu wrote:
AlmightyWalrus wrote:There's nothing wrong with Chaos Bikers, Terminators or Chosen. That's one fast attack and two elites that are actually playable without gimping your list.

I'll give you terminators and chosen (except chosen should be slightly better than normal CSM) I use them both, but bikers? Suicide melta unit (minimal effect, high cost) or daemon delivery and suicide unit, not great for anything really.

As opposed to termicide?

**Guaiwu**

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Guaiwu wrote:
AlmightyWalrus wrote:There's nothing wrong with Chaos Bikers, Terminators or Chosen. That's one fast attack and two elites that are actually playable without gimping your list.

I'll give you terminators and chosen (except chosen should be slightly better than normal CSM) I use them both, but bikers? Suicide melta unit (minimal effect, high cost) or daemon delivery and suicide unit, not great for anything really.

As opposed to termicide?

At least termies often take out their points worth before they die. True, I often think of what else I could buy with their points, but they are fun and thematic.

**dajobe**

I like the rending on my assault cannon, alot of people say to take cyclone, but i am a fan of AC! Termies rule, I find they are a unit that alot of peopletry to focus most/all of their fire on, allowing me to do mostly what I want with the rest of my army.

**liquidjoshi**

dajobe wrote:I like the rending on my assault cannon, alot of people say to take cyclone, but i am a fan of AC! Termies rule, I find they are a unit that alot of peopletry to focus most/all of their fire on, allowing me to do mostly what I want with the rest of my army.

QFT