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Castiel wrote:It's an audiobook from the HH called The Dark King. Basically, Dorn and Cruze had a disagreement over tactics and Cruze went all rage on dorn, beating him up a fair bit. not a great thing to judge Dorn on though, as I feel he was rather taken by surprise!

True. When reading your post I pictured them just casually sitting about discussing tactics then BOOM! Sucker punch.

im2randomghgh wrote:

Castiel wrote:It's an audiobook from the HH called The Dark King. Basically, Dorn and Cruze had a disagreement over tactics and Cruze went all rage on dorn, beating him up a fair bit. not a great thing to judge Dorn on though, as I feel he was rather taken by surprise!

True. When reading your post I pictured them just casually sitting about discussing tactics then BOOM! Sucker punch.

Dorn was basically telling Cruze of for doing lots of scary stuff to a world they were making compliant and then, yep, it was basically BOOM! Sucker punch.

Choosing a winner in a fight is hard because there are so many unknown variables. For example, If Angron were fighting Corax, Angron would beat the feth out of him, but if Corax had access to a jump pack, he would have a chance.
Another example, What weapons are they using? Hand to Hand? Melee only? Procure on site?
Ultimately, Horus would beat everyone, so he should be taken out of all these polls.

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:Which isn't necessarily lost in 'Savage Weapons'. He even gives a self-admitted "dishonourable blow".

Well the Lion is pretty fond of those. Sucker-punched Russ as well (Admittedly, Russ also started the fight with a sucker-punch).

And against other Primarchs, one style might prove more advantageous than the others. How would Curze fare against Ferrus? Possibly not so well as against Fulgrim due to Ferrus' superior strength and metal hands.

Obviously A>B>C logic doesn't work quite so well. Not sure how Curze would stack up against Manus, like Fulgrim he should be faster and more skilled.

Curze presumably was as well, but yeah, that occasion doesn't help us in terms of Primarch combat (aside from between Curze and Dorn, since Dorn had lasting trauma from the incident).

I haven't read the actual story, but from what I recall from Index Astartes, Curze opened up Dorn's chest cavity... I'd like to imagine he didn't do that with his bare hands.

Ah, forgot about the unarmed combat. I don't necessarily think Curze would be superior in a weaponless brawl.

It is difficult to say admittedly. The Lion is faster than Russ, but Russ was described as physically stronger, so choking him out may not work so well (Interestingly Russ is also described in some material as quite large for a Primarch, not to the extent of Magnus, but perhaps on Ferrus' level in that regard).

Didn't know about the martial aspect of his character. Regardless, it does give precedent for Primarchs having physical weaknesses that can be exploited, as well as a chance of any underdog to come back.

He's no Angron or Sanguinius, but he's no pushover in that regard.

And yes, Magnus does have an admittedly big physical weakness, in regards to his eye.

Well, against the Lion he did still have his lightning claws if I recall correctly, and had the advantage of being on top (if the Lion had tackled Curze for whatever reason, the outcome would likely have been different). That said, the weapons would themselves have a large impact on how the battle went (Curze's claws are not conducive to a duel like he and the Lion initiated with).

I was under the impression that Curze was basically strangling him (I have yet to read the story I admit), and didn't ABD admit in the quote you provided that Curze was superior in a brawl? And yeah, that's also true, the Lion does have the advantage in weaponry one on one, some Primarchs do wield weapons that provide greater reach (Manus' hammer, Magnus' extendable staff/halberd, etc.).

Especially the case when different Primarchs favour different weapons. Lightning claws would not be great at the length a sword is, or vice versa. Those Primarchs may have an advantage in a duel style combat, but this thread does dictate a sector of a Hive City as an arena - suggesting it's not just a duel that has to be settled in one fight. In smaller quarters, I'd actually argue that the lightning claws of Corax and Curze would probably be an advantage where they use the length of a sword or axe against their opponent (although Magnus does always have an advantage over the others with his Psychic powers, but not enough to guarantee victory in my opinion).

Of course lightning claws would be better in that case, they're ninjas, yo.

And I don't know, personally, I'd say Magnus is almost definitely the strongest, possessing a great amount of physical might and prowess, backed up by psychic power second only to the Emperor's. Magnus held a decisive advantage against Russ (And his wolves... And the entire Space Wolves legion) while preparing a spell meant to transport millions of people to the Eye of Terror. Now, one case where his psychic might could be rendered null in void is if a fight with Angron or Sanguinius started out with Magnus very close to them, but overall, I'd bet on Magnus, personally.

Also, I feel like I should mention that Magnus has the most versatile melee weapon here, having a sword that also extends into a staff/polearm.

Have we ever seen them fight? I haven't read anything saying that they were conisderably worse in combat. It would also depend on whether or not Omegon is included, but even if not, when they first met Alpharius seemed to hold the advantage against Horus (admittedly Horus didn't know he was facing another Primarch, but Alpharius certainly seemed to surprise him with his speed). Pre-Aurelian Lorgar would be at a disadvantage mainly because of his mindset though. He thought that he was going to die to Corax, and accepted that fact. Corax retreated from Curze because he'd lose against two Primarchs (especially since one was well rested). Peturabo I've no idea about, and as for Gulliman, we know he lost to Daemon-possessed Fulgrim but possibly defeated Alpharius (although that duel is dodgy as evidence).

I was not aware Alpharius actually fought Horus, when was this?

Well, pre-Aurelian Lorgar was also described as physically weaker than Corax (Corax in Fulgrim is actually described as a smallish Primarch, though admittedly he was being compared to Vulkan and Manus), who was in turn shown to be physically weaker than Curze. But yeah, Lorgar in Aurelian is apparently quite the badass. I can only hope he bulked up, he really tried my patients when his torso was described as "androgynously slender".

Perturabo appears to be possibly the least physically active Primarch. He's a strategist and a schemer, he didn't even entertain the notion of fighting Dorn personally when he made Dorn look like an idiot. He just appears to disdain physical combat (Compared to other Primarchs, I mean).

Guilliman was knocked on his ass and visibly intimidated by Lorgar, if only briefly. That's kind of lame, yo.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Russ Mandarin wrote:Russ was the only primarch to ever beat Horus in a duel but I wouldn't then go on to say that Russ could beat every primarch.
Obviously Magnus wasn't a match for him but if he went up against guys like Sanguinius then there would be problems

I won't bother answering the second part because I've done so so many times I should just start quoting myself...

But on the first part, seriously, when did this happen? When did Russ beat Horus in a duel? The closest I've ever gotten to a source was when someone told me it was in Index Astartes, cue my surprise when I read Index Astartes and... It wasn't.

Leonus Cohol wrote:Choosing a winner in a fight is hard because there are so many unknown variables. For example, If Angron were fighting Corax, Angron would beat the feth out of him, but if Corax had access to a jump pack, he would have a chance.
Another example, What weapons are they using? Hand to Hand? Melee only? Procure on site?
Ultimately, Horus would beat everyone, so he should be taken out of all these polls.

Horus would be the first to die. All that tension about him becoming warmaster, when others believe it should be them. Pent up rage=him dying. Also, there is no reason to believe his combat ability was any better than any of his brothers.

And for the purposes of this debate, I believe we are assuming them using their favourite weapons/loadout.

Leonus Cohol wrote:Choosing a winner in a fight is hard because there are so many unknown variables. For example, If Angron were fighting Corax, Angron would beat the feth out of him, but if Corax had access to a jump pack, he would have a chance.
Another example, What weapons are they using? Hand to Hand? Melee only? Procure on site?
Ultimately, Horus would beat everyone, so he should be taken out of all these polls.

I assume that they all fight in top condition with their preferred wargear.

Since it'd be FFA, i assume either Magnus, Russ or Guilliman to lose first, for obvious reasons (Russ'd just charge the one of those that is closest. who would win... unsure)

im2randomghgh wrote:^ What were you guys referring to, about Dorn and Curze?

The 'Dark King' and 'Lightning Tower' short stories. Dorn confronts Curze over his brutal tactics, and then later Fulgrim tells Dorn that Curze confided in him his visions of war between Astartes and the Emperors legacy in flames. Curze attacks Dorn while in a trance or something (he has no memory of it, only from when he's squatted on top of Dorn). He literally tears open Dorns flesh.

Void__Dragon wrote:
Obviously A>B>C logic doesn't work quite so well. Not sure how Curze would stack up against Manus, like Fulgrim he should be faster and more skilled.

Maybe, but Curze does not have a dueling weapon, and Manus has superior strength in case Curze tackles him.

I haven't read the actual story, but from what I recall from Index Astartes, Curze opened up Dorn's chest cavity... I'd like to imagine he didn't do that with his bare hands.

It says "raising his hands, balled into fists. Blood dripped from his fingertips", which suggests to me that he was barehanded (although it does not necessarily exclude other possibilities).

I was under the impression that Curze was basically strangling him (I have yet to read the story I admit), and didn't ABD admit in the quote you provided that Curze was superior in a brawl? And yeah, that's also true, the Lion does have the advantage in weaponry one on one, some Primarchs do wield weapons that provide greater reach (Manus' hammer, Magnus' extendable staff/halberd, etc.).

He was, true, so maybe he didn't use the lightning claws (other than to catch the Lions sword). It seemed to me that A-B-D was stating that he held a temporary advantage but that his victory was not assured - the Lion was still fighting back, afterall.

Now, one case where his psychic might could be rendered null in void is if a fight with Angron or Sanguinius started out with Magnus very close to them, but overall, I'd bet on Magnus, personally.

Fair enough.

Also, I feel like I should mention that Magnus has the most versatile melee weapon here, having a sword that also extends into a staff/polearm.

Very useful.

I was not aware Alpharius actually fought Horus, when was this?

Index Astartes IV, when Alpharius is first found (the 'man' is Alpharius). "Somehow, even at such close range, the man sidestepped fast enough that the bolt shell only grazed his temple and exploded against the bulkhead behind. As the man charged forwards, a second shot slammed into his shoulder, but still he did not slow. More shots were fired by guards and bridge officers as well as Horus. The man staggered under multiple impacts, but incredibly came on through the firestorm to launch himself at the Luna Wolves Priamrch. Then at the last instant, with his hands inches from Horus's throat, the man stopped."

It's not much of a fight, but Alpharius does appear at the end to have an advantage in position. It also states that he looks almost a match for Horus.

Well, pre-Aurelian Lorgar was also described as physically weaker than Corax (Corax in Fulgrim is actually described as a smallish Primarch, though admittedly he was being compared to Vulkan and Manus), who was in turn shown to be physically weaker than Curze. But yeah, Lorgar in Aurelian is apparently quite the badass. I can only hope he bulked up, he really tried my patients when his torso was described as "androgynously slender".

Huh, interesting. When was Corax shown to be weaker than Curze?

Perturabo appears to be possibly the least physically active Primarch. He's a strategist and a schemer, he didn't even entertain the notion of fighting Dorn personally when he made Dorn look like an idiot. He just appears to disdain physical combat (Compared to other Primarchs, I mean).

Possibly, but I recall reading about how his Legion learned to love the fighting after the seige. They fight with the feoricity of the World Eaters and Blood Angels or something like that.

Guilliman was knocked on his ass and visibly intimidated by Lorgar, if only briefly. That's kind of lame, yo.

He's also unlikely to actually want to fight his brother in that situation.

Void__Dragon wrote:

Russ Mandarin wrote:Russ was the only primarch to ever beat Horus in a duel but I wouldn't then go on to say that Russ could beat every primarch.
Obviously Magnus wasn't a match for him but if he went up against guys like Sanguinius then there would be problems

I won't bother answering the second part because I've done so so many times I should just start quoting myself...

But on the first part, seriously, when did this happen? When did Russ beat Horus in a duel? The closest I've ever gotten to a source was when someone told me it was in Index Astartes, cue my surprise when I read Index Astartes and... It wasn't.

hmmm I'm certain it originates from the Space Wolf series
Wolf's honor
13th company told a story about how Horus and Russ came to blows and the Emperor had to pull Russ off of Horus which then caused them to come to blows again.

I think you're going to have to give a quote on that one.

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:Maybe, but Curze does not have a dueling weapon, and Manus has superior strength in case Curze tackles him.

True enough, but he might not need to, in the Lion he faced an opponent whose speed was similar to his, and was a very skilled swordsman regardless. But yeah, regarding Corax vs. Manus, all we really can do is speculate.

It says "raising his hands, balled into fists. Blood dripped from his fingertips", which suggests to me that he was barehanded (although it does not necessarily exclude other possibilities).

Weird. So I guess he punched through Dorn's chest.

He was, true, so maybe he didn't use the lightning claws (other than to catch the Lions sword). It seemed to me that A-B-D was stating that he held a temporary advantage but that his victory was not assured - the Lion was still fighting back, afterall.

But he was notably failing, was he not?

Fair enough.

Very useful.

You're damn right.

Index Astartes IV, when Alpharius is first found (the 'man' is Alpharius). "Somehow, even at such close range, the man sidestepped fast enough that the bolt shell only grazed his temple and exploded against the bulkhead behind. As the man charged forwards, a second shot slammed into his shoulder, but still he did not slow. More shots were fired by guards and bridge officers as well as Horus. The man staggered under multiple impacts, but incredibly came on through the firestorm to launch himself at the Luna Wolves Priamrch. Then at the last instant, with his hands inches from Horus's throat, the man stopped."

It's not much of a fight, but Alpharius does appear at the end to have an advantage in position. It also states that he looks almost a match for Horus.

Horus also started laughing after this occurred, it doesn't seem like he had any intention to fight him himself.

Huh, interesting. When was Corax shown to be weaker than Curze?

"The claw fell, and struck opposing metal. Corax looked to meet eyes as black as his, in a face as pale as his own. His claw strained against a mirroring weapon, both sets of blades scraping as they ground against each other. One claw seeking to fall and kill, the other unyielding in its rising defence. Where the Raven Guard primarch’s features were fierce with effort, the other face wore a grin. It was a smile both taut and mirthless – a dead man’s smile, once his lips surrendered to rigor mortis."

Corax was unable to stop Curze from raising his claw in defense, and Corax was strained with effort, Curze manic.

Possibly, but I recall reading about how his Legion learned to love the fighting after the seige. They fight with the feoricity of the World Eaters and Blood Angels or something like that.

gak you're right, that's in their entry on Index Astartes. Though it does say that they only do so when necessary and never longer than they must, when they have to take a key point.

With Perturabo it is admittedly hard to say. Dude needs more exposure man, fo rell.

He's also unlikely to actually want to fight his brother in that situation.

Perhaps but Lorgar closing a signifigant gap and managing this showcases a relative lack of reaction-time on Guilliman's part. And I'm not sure Guilliman would be unwilling to fight a brother on principal.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Russ Mandarin wrote:hmmm I'm certain it originates from the Space Wolf series
Wolf's honor
13th company told a story about how Horus and Russ came to blows and the Emperor had to pull Russ off of Horus which then caused them to come to blows again.

Got a quote? Or maybe even a page number/chapter number for someone with the book to confirm?

Void__Dragon wrote:
True enough, but he might not need to, in the Lion he faced an opponent whose speed was similar to his, and was a very skilled swordsman regardless. But yeah, regarding Corax vs. Manus, all we really can do is speculate.

Fair enough.

Weird. So I guess he punched through Dorn's chest.

I think it was more clawed through Dorn's chest, myself.

Oh, in 'The Dark King', it says that Curze "clawed them with his bare hands and teeth" (regarding Dorn's wounds').

But he was notably failing, was he not?

He was, but he might have managed to regain the upper hand, or at least force a stalemate, similar to how Curze managed to turn around the fight. At the end, neither Primarch was capable of resisting their own Marines physically.

Horus also started laughing after this occurred, it doesn't seem like he had any intention to fight him himself.

Horus only started laughing after he recognised Alpharius as his brother (when Alpharius had his hands inches from Horus' throat). He was serious up until that moment.

Corax was unable to stop Curze from raising his claw in defense, and Corax was strained with effort, Curze manic.

Fair enough, although one could argue that it was at least partially due Corax having just exerted himself in defeating another Primarch. Curze also has a tendency to grin alot, even when he is losing (he does it against the Lion in 'Savage Weapons' as well.

gak you're right, that's in their entry on Index Astartes. Though it does say that they only do so when necessary and never longer than they must, when they have to take a key point.

With Perturabo it is admittedly hard to say. Dude needs more exposure man, fo rell.

Although they did end up revelling in it, although it's hard to say whether or not Perturabo himself shared that satisfaction.

Too right he does. It'll be interesting to see his side of things and whether or not there's much to back up his bitterness.

Perhaps but Lorgar closing a signifigant gap and managing this showcases a relative lack of reaction-time on Guilliman's part. And I'm not sure Guilliman would be unwilling to fight a brother on principal.

True enough.

Leonus Cohol wrote:Choosing a winner in a fight is hard because there are so many unknown variables. For example, If Angron were fighting Corax, Angron would beat the feth out of him, but if Corax had access to a jump pack, he would have a chance.
Another example, What weapons are they using? Hand to Hand? Melee only? Procure on site?
Ultimately, Horus would beat everyone, so he should be taken out of all these polls.

#Procure on site?

huh? Are you saying that Lorgar with a Credit card, buys a Land Raider would just "run-over" Horus? So if we said, remove all armour, weapons, and it was a straight up "Naked Cage fight" who would win? (I think this might be a better premise), however....Well even naked, Magnus would warp your mind, Sanguinus would fly round the ceiling and the Russ would go Feral and try to bite your neck...(Fenton!! Fenton!!! Jesus Christ)...

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:I think it was more clawed through Dorn's chest, myself.

Primarch fingernails are deadly.

He was, but he might have managed to regain the upper hand, or at least force a stalemate, similar to how Curze managed to turn around the fight. At the end, neither Primarch was capable of resisting their own Marines physically.

Wasn't Curze stabbed in the spine with a power sword?

Horus only started laughing after he recognised Alpharius as his brother (when Alpharius had his hands inches from Horus' throat). He was serious up until that moment.

Ah but they weren't physically battling either, did Horus not just order his men to shoot at Alpharius? Alpharius being able to dodge bolter-fire isn't out of the ordinary, normal Marines have managed this feat (Lucius the Eternal in particular seems quite skilled at dodging incoming gunfire).

Fair enough, although one could argue that it was at least partially due Corax having just exerted himself in defeating another Primarch. Curze also has a tendency to grin alot, even when he is losing (he does it against the Lion in 'Savage Weapons' as well.

Perhaps. Lorgar did manage to do better against Corax than I expected him to. Though, Primarchs have nigh-inexhaustible stamina, not sure a relatively short fight like that would tax Corax. And true, I'm actually now leaning towards Curze, in his more manic persona, having a degree of enhanced strength due to lack of mental inhibitions.

Although they did end up revelling in it, although it's hard to say whether or not Perturabo himself shared that satisfaction.

Too right he does. It'll be interesting to see his side of things and whether or not there's much to back up his bitterness.

Yeah, I can't recall Perturabo ever even entering battle himself, though I can only assume that hammer wasn't for show.

Indeed, Perturabo is one of my favorite Primarchs, since I think that a lot of his bitterness was justified, but also that much of it was misplaced and that, despite perceived wrongdoings committed against him and his Legion, they are among the most sinister Legion out there, so the question of how justified he is in his anger comes up. Plus he's also the greatest mortal troll in the galaxy, making both Dorn and the Lion, two Primarchs renowned for their analytical minds, look like idiots.

@ Void-Dragon, as Regards Perturabo do you mean sinister, in the modern conventional sense (e.g Evil) or do mean Unfortunate; disastrous; unfavorable in the traditional, left-hand sense?

Void__Dragon wrote:
Primarch fingernails are deadly.

'The Dark King' states that Curze "clawed them with his bare hands and teeth" with regards to the wounds he had inflicted on Dorn, so apparently so.

Wasn't Curze stabbed in the spine with a power sword?

Yes, but he still wasn't too hot before that.

Horus only started laughing after he recognised Alpharius as his brother (when Alpharius had his hands inches from Horus' throat). He was serious up until that moment.

Ah but they weren't physically battling either, did Horus not just order his men to shoot at Alpharius? Alpharius being able to dodge bolter-fire isn't out of the ordinary, normal Marines have managed this feat (Lucius the Eternal in particular seems quite skilled at dodging incoming gunfire).

No, they didn't battle physically other than Horus shooting at Alpharius (and killing his men). It does say that "somehow" he sidestepped the shot (although other bolter-shells hit him). Still, Horus 'letting' an enemy get that close to his throat is a bit of a risk, although he may have been overconfident or had a plan.

Perhaps. Lorgar did manage to do better against Corax than I expected him to. Though, Primarchs have nigh-inexhaustible stamina, not sure a relatively short fight like that would tax Corax. And true, I'm actually now leaning towards Curze, in his more manic persona, having a degree of enhanced strength due to lack of mental inhibitions.

Relatively short but presumably requiring a lot of effort (not to mention having had to fight his way through to Lorgar). As regards to Curze, that is very possible.

Yeah, I can't recall Perturabo ever even entering battle himself, though I can only assume that hammer wasn't for show.

Indeed, Perturabo is one of my favorite Primarchs, since I think that a lot of his bitterness was justified, but also that much of it was misplaced and that, despite perceived wrongdoings committed against him and his Legion, they are among the most sinister Legion out there, so the question of how justified he is in his anger comes up. Plus he's also the greatest mortal troll in the galaxy, making both Dorn and the Lion, two Primarchs renowned for their analytical minds, look like idiots.

Me neither. I'd expect he did at least sometimes, though (as opposed to, say, Angron, who presumably always did).

Let's hope it's explored well.

im2randomghgh wrote:

Leonus Cohol wrote:Choosing a winner in a fight is hard because there are so many unknown variables. For example, If Angron were fighting Corax, Angron would beat the feth out of him, but if Corax had access to a jump pack, he would have a chance.
Another example, What weapons are they using? Hand to Hand? Melee only? Procure on site?
Ultimately, Horus would beat everyone, so he should be taken out of all these polls.

Horus would be the first to die. All that tension about him becoming warmaster, when others believe it should be them. Pent up rage=him dying. Also, there is no reason to believe his combat ability was any better than any of his brothers.

And for the purposes of this debate, I believe we are assuming them using their favourite weapons/loadout.

Horus was more powerful than all of the Primarchs, the only people who could possibly beat him were Angron and Sanguinus

mwnciboo wrote:

Leonus Cohol wrote:Choosing a winner in a fight is hard because there are so many unknown variables. For example, If Angron were fighting Corax, Angron would beat the feth out of him, but if Corax had access to a jump pack, he would have a chance.
Another example, What weapons are they using? Hand to Hand? Melee only? Procure on site?
Ultimately, Horus would beat everyone, so he should be taken out of all these polls.

#Procure on site?

huh? Are you saying that Lorgar with a Credit card, buys a Land Raider would just "run-over" Horus? So if we said, remove all armour, weapons, and it was a straight up "Naked Cage fight" who would win? (I think this might be a better premise), however....Well even naked, Magnus would warp your mind, Sanguinus would fly round the ceiling and the Russ would go Feral and try to bite your neck...(Fenton!! Fenton!!! Jesus Christ)...

Procure on site as in use what you find.
Maybe not a naked cage fight but yeah, that would be better but really one sided for most, Angron, Sanguinus, Horus, and Russ would be on top.

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:'The Dark King' states that Curze "clawed them with his bare hands and teeth" with regards to the wounds he had inflicted on Dorn, so apparently so.

Epic catfight.

Yes, but he still wasn't too hot before that.

Well the fight did start with a stab to the stomach.

No, they didn't battle physically other than Horus shooting at Alpharius (and killing his men). It does say that "somehow" he sidestepped the shot (although other bolter-shells hit him). Still, Horus 'letting' an enemy get that close to his throat is a bit of a risk, although he may have been overconfident or had a plan.

Overconfidence/arrogance is Horus' fatal flaw.

Relatively short but presumably requiring a lot of effort (not to mention having had to fight his way through to Lorgar). As regards to Curze, that is very possible.

Actually Lorgar initiated the fight. And killing Marines is not physically taxing for a Primarch. Curze even acknowledges this, calling Lorgar a loser and telling him to go beat up more Marines with his little hammer and leave the manly work to the manly men. Though yeah, Lorgar didn't go down like a chump like I was led to believe.

Me neither. I'd expect he did at least sometimes, though (as opposed to, say, Angron, who presumably always did).

Let's hope it's explored well.

Probably so. Though this sadly is all speculation, until Perturabo himself is elaborated on.

Indeed, am hoping ABD, Abnett, or McNeil handle that one. Actually, hasn't McNeil done Iron Warriors work before, that was pretty well-regarded?

Yeah. McNeil's done a few bits and pieces concerning the Iron Warriors, specifically the Warsmith Honsou who features as main villain in both Dead Sky, Black Sun, and Chapter's Due, as well as a few short stories. There's an omnibus of all the stuff released in the next few months IIRC. Great character, I've skimmed both the the Ultramarine's books just for the Iron Warrior's POV sections. And of course, there's the simply epic Storm of Iron, where Honsou is the protagonist.

I'll have to be sure to check all of that out.

Angron would win a fight. Not Horus.
Horus is an all-rounder, capable of defeating Guilliman in combat and Angron in strategy, but not the other way round.
He could beat any primarch if he chooses the subject of the contest; but now doesn't.

BrotherHaraldus wrote:Angron would win a fight. Not Horus.
Horus is an all-rounder, capable of defeating Guilliman in combat and Angron in strategy, but not the other way round.
He could beat any primarch if he chooses the subject of the contest; but now doesn't.

Except maybe Sanguinius..but its debateable. Maybe a calmness contest?

Sanguinius would win. He would fly into the air and do a shoulder dive from about a mile high.

BlapBlapBlap wrote:Sanguinius would win. He would fly into the air and do a shoulder dive from about a mile high.

And at the last moment the other Primarch sidesteps.

BrotherHaraldus wrote:Angron would win a fight. Not Horus.
Horus is an all-rounder, capable of defeating Guilliman in combat and Angron in strategy, but not the other way round.
He could beat any primarch if he chooses the subject of the contest; but now doesn't.

No, it's stated in the audio book Raven's Flight that Horus and maybe Sanguinius were the only Primarchs who could defeat Angron.

LoneLictor wrote:Magnus wouldn't win because the other Primarchs have genetic psychic resistance. His powers wouldn't be quite as strong against them. Sure, they'd still hurt, but I doubt he could instantly snap their necks or crush their skulls.

While his powers mightn't be as effective against primarchs as they usually would they should still give him the edge since physically they are all probably equalish.

Thanatos_elNyx wrote:

LoneLictor wrote:Magnus wouldn't win because the other Primarchs have genetic psychic resistance. His powers wouldn't be quite as strong against them. Sure, they'd still hurt, but I doubt he could instantly snap their necks or crush their skulls.

While his powers mightn't be as effective against primarchs as they usually would they should still give him the edge since physically they are all probably equalish.

Most probably. But keep in mind that Magnus could fight Russ (one of the more combat-oriented Primarchs) on equal terms, and Russ only defeated Magnus with a lucky blow to his eye. If that desperate strike failed to hit the eye, Magnus could have killed Russ then and there, as one of Russ' hearts had already been pierced Magnus' attacks. Then again, Magnus could just have told Russ that he'd been tricked by Horus into attacking the Thousand Sons, but that's not the point of this thread...

YOUR ALL IDIOTS (apart from you who chose magnus) magnus will take one look at the planet/hive and turn it to dust with a flick of his finger or turn all the other primarches into bunny rabbits you fools

THE WINNER IS MAGNUS THE RED

Rage?

Looks like it. The heavy use of capitals and calling those who disagree with his point of view "idiots" are both syptoms of rage.

@ VoidDragon, the part about curze stopping Corax's claw.

Corax had just defeated another primarch in a duel, and he owuld be tired, have damaged armour and his claws were pretty badly mauled.