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So the Custode failed miserably with his head cut off? It's still besides the point........What's your point about Wazdakka? My point was if an ork can just drive a bike on through, why can't a Primarch just do basically the same thing? Void shields don't protect against man-missiles...If you're trying to say Magnus is better cause neener neener neener he killed a titan alone and unaided...I'm saying so did an Ork and we have no idea if all the Primarches haven't killed one, they prolly have to be honest. Killing a titan isn't really that cool of a thing for a Primarch to do. Primarches only get slain by other Primarches or the Emp unless they get all suicidal like Dorn and Kruze...But I guess you could say they only ended up like that because they wanted to die.

Durza: Let's please not bring the genital debate up again, please.
It's kind of my point that Russ took the damage and WON the fight. None of your other examples can say the same. Sheesh, I've cleared this up like three times now. Morty doesn't count anyway being that he's effectively immortal, his pre-daemon body would have been slain but now he's all warp stuff.

My money would be on Angron. I think he'd win due to what he is and the way he grew up, when he was a baby he was killing eldar, he had a nightmare grimdark upbringing, he was already a superhuman killing machine, and then he got even more modified to be a gladiatir. On top of that Khorne loved the way he was very brutal so even pre heresy khorne would like him. He led a huge war before the emperor found him and was an all round badass. I think he's slightly stronger than the other forcefull primarchs such as Russ and Sanguinius due to his cyber surgery so he'd be able to best those the psykers, like Magnus, would have to use physical magic instead of getting in his mind as he is so damn angry... The only Primarch's who'd be a problem are the sneaky ones....... PLUS I know it's pre heresy but Angron is the only Primarch who still occassionally kicks ass (until he was zapped into the warp) all the others are dead, or sat at the top of a towrer or going on a wild goose chase, I think this shows he was very powerfull as he still wages war Just my opinion and 1st post ever so go easy

....Why such a fail?
i created a thread that i really wanted answers to, and it didnt even get 60, including all of my own posts.
And then i create this thread, spontaneusly, and was not that important.
and it gets over two hundred replies.
Guess that's normal.

Durza wrote:Didn't this titan bashing come after he was blessed by Tzeentch?

Castiel wrote:

Durza wrote:

Castiel wrote:

Durza wrote:

BrainDeleted wrote:I'd say it takes a fair amount of skill and determination to thrash for your life while some crazy giant has you BY THE HEART.

Not really. Think of the nerves he could have pinched while grabbing Russ' heart. It could have been reflex more than anything.

No, the nerves that control motor functions run through the spine. They wouldn't have been triggered by his heart getting grabbed.

So there's no reflexes whatsoever that would be triggered by someone grabbing your heart?

I dare say there'd be reflexes, just not caused by grabbing a fistful of nerves.

There's nerves hardwired through your heart. They electrocute it to keep it pumping. Also, there's nerve endings everywhere. Of course, the reflex there would be caused by pain, not the nerves themselves, so you're right about that, but technically wrong that the reflexes wouldn't be triggered by him grabbing the nerves.

Yeah. I thought you meant that by grabbing the nerves he would have caused the limbs to spasm automatically, rather than as a response to the pain.

this will never be solved...i say they make a movie about this...make it like UFC style

Iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnn the Red Corner, the Mightiest of Magi, the Slayer of Titans, Magnus the Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed! Iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnn the Blue Corner, the Wolf King, the Space Viking, the Emperor's Drinking Champion, Leman Ruuuuuuuuuuuuuussss!

that would be awesome, UFC style fighting with 40k heros and units.

Celebrity Deathmatch with Primarchs FTW!!!

BrainDeleted wrote:So the Custode failed miserably with his head cut off? It's still besides the point........What's your point about Wazdakka? My point was if an ork can just drive a bike on through, why can't a Primarch just do basically the same thing? Void shields don't protect against man-missiles...If you're trying to say Magnus is better cause neener neener neener he killed a titan alone and unaided...I'm saying so did an Ork and we have no idea if all the Primarches haven't killed one, they prolly have to be honest. Killing a titan isn't really that cool of a thing for a Primarch to do. Primarches only get slain by other Primarches or the Emp unless they get all suicidal like Dorn and Kruze...But I guess you could say they only ended up like that because they wanted to die.

Durza: Let's please not bring the genital debate up again, please.
It's kind of my point that Russ took the damage and WON the fight. None of your other examples can say the same. Sheesh, I've cleared this up like three times now. Morty doesn't count anyway being that he's effectively immortal, his pre-daemon body would have been slain but now he's all warp stuff.

My point is that Magnus killed two Emperor-class titans at the same time, and had a history of killing titans, and hinted at having the ability to destroy ships in orbit. We have zero evidence or reason to believe russ had a history of/the ability to destroy titans. 100m tall warmachine with weaponry capable of laying waste to entire armies with impenetrable armies...or the 40k equivalent of a super hero.

And Dorn was not suicidal. He was in the mood to single handedly destroy the first black crusade in an era where the IoM was quite fragile and would have potentially lost a huge portion of it's power to said crusade.

And yet Leman Russ snapped Magnus's spine. When exactly did he destroy two Emperor Class Titans at the same time?

As has been said a hundred times already A>B and B>C ≠ A>C.

But, just for the sake of fairness, when has any Primarch lost to a titan? Oh, never? Alright. So really, the fact that Magnus has destroyed titans doesn't really mean anything other than that he's enormously powerful...Just like the rest of the boys. I'd take a Primarch over a titan any day of the week...Except Fridays! Never on a Friday.


Dorn seemed pretty suicidal to me. The fluff doesn't say: "Dorn was suicidal" but half the game is interpreting what's written. If you have any actual opinion other than Dorn doesn't afraid of anything, I'd love to hear it. That's the whole fun of these debates!

BrainDeleted wrote:And yet Leman Russ snapped Magnus's spine. When exactly did he destroy two Emperor Class Titans at the same time?

As has been said a hundred times already A>B and B>C ≠ A>C.

But, just for the sake of fairness, when has any Primarch lost to a titan? Oh, never? Alright. So really, the fact that Magnus has destroyed titans doesn't really mean anything other than that he's enormously powerful...Just like the rest of the boys. I'd take a Primarch over a titan any day of the week...Except Fridays! Never on a Friday.


Dorn seemed pretty suicidal to me. The fluff doesn't say: "Dorn was suicidal" but half the game is interpreting what's written. If you have any actual opinion other than Dorn doesn't afraid of anything, I'd love to hear it. That's the whole fun of these debates!

Primarchs usually don't have to fight titans, as they had titan support during the crusade, and because xenos titans are fairly rare, and without traitors, there would have been minimal titan-smiting.

Also, tbh I don't consider either Russ or Magnus as having won their fight. They were both horrifically damaged, and they both achieved their objectives in the fight. Magnus' objective was to buy some time then teleport him and his sons away, which he accomplished flawlessly.

Russ' objective was to make the bad man go away I'd say he succeeded.

Also, there really isn't anything suggesting Dorn had suicidal tendencies.
Anything.

Unless you'd care to show me the fluff that states/implies he is suicidal?

I do care to do just that! His extremely deep period of mourning and self harm after the Emperor's enthronement, the immense bash his ego took after the Iron Cage are some good examples. Even his resistance to the Codex Astartes is a good one...He felt like everyone blamed him for the Emperor's fate and that the Codex was aimed at him specifically. He blamed himself for not being able to fight shoulder to shoulder with the Big E when the time came. I think he would have rather had Sanguinius's fate. He put himself in the pain glove for something ridiculous like seven full days straight then bashed his Legion against Perturabo's Iron Cage as a form of self punishment...That was pretty suicidal itself, if Robot Gorillaman didn't bail him out of the Iron Cage, I think he would have gone at it until he killed himself.

I believe Dorn's attack on the Sword of Sacrilege is actually described as suicidal by Index Astartes. I'll check that one out...Either way, he was completely and totally outnumbered but he did it anyway instead of retreating to live to fight another day. Only sheer Primarch awesomeness made his sacrifice succeed.

EDIT: Nope, it says desperate, not suicidal.

BrainDeleted wrote:I do care to do just that! His extremely deep period of mourning and self harm after the Emperor's enthronement, the immense bash his ego took after the Iron Cage are some good examples. Even his resistance to the Codex Astartes is a good one...He felt like everyone blamed him for the Emperor's fate and that the Codex was aimed at him specifically. He blamed himself for not being able to fight shoulder to shoulder with the Big E when the time came. I think he would have rather had Sanguinius's fate. He put himself in the pain glove for something ridiculous like seven full days straight then bashed his Legion against Perturabo's Iron Cage as a form of self punishment...That was pretty suicidal itself, if Robot Gorillaman didn't bail him out of the Iron Cage, I think he would have gone at it until he killed himself.

I believe Dorn's attack on the Sword of Sacrilege is actually described as suicidal by Index Astartes. I'll check that one out...Either way, he was completely and totally outnumbered but he did it anyway instead of retreating to live to fight another day. Only sheer Primarch awesomeness made his sacrifice succeed.

EDIT: Nope, it says desperate, not suicidal.

So, mourning automatically means suicidal? Also, his ego wasn't set back by the Iron Cage. He felt his legion needed purifying pain, and he found it. He and his fists would have been destroyed without the Ultrasmurfs, but they would have destroyed perturabo and his warriors too.

And in case you didn't notice...like half the loyalists decided "feth the codex astartes."

And the pain glove is used for meditation.

So according to the finished post, hte popular opinion is that horus is da bomb. YAY!

im2randomghgh wrote:
He and his fists would have been destroyed without the Ultrasmurfs, but they would have destroyed perturabo and his warriors too.

Perturabo wasn't even on the planet. Dorn was willing to sacrifice himself and his Legion for a goal that he couldn't actually reach.

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:
He and his fists would have been destroyed without the Ultrasmurfs, but they would have destroyed perturabo and his warriors too.

Perturabo wasn't even on the planet. Dorn was willing to sacrifice himself and his Legion for a goal that he couldn't actually reach.

Lexicanum-Rogal Dorn wrote:The Imperial Fists had always been masters of siege craft, and even unprepared and at a disadvantage they fought like lions. Dorn stood as a giant in their midst, his mind clear with purpose after years of doubt and guilt. The Iron Warriors would have had to sacrifice their lives and Primarch to destroy the Imperial Fists, a price they weren't ready to pay. The arrival of the Ultramarines cut the conflict short and the Iron Warriors fled for the Eye of Terror. The Imperial Fists had suffered staggering losses, but they had proved their loyalty to the Emperor and cleansed themselves of earlier failures

You wanna know who'd actually win? Whoever the hell the writers felt like lol Wouldn't be the first time in 40k books some random 1 in a 1k thing happen to let a person win. For all you know some cosmic event could happen and let a grot kill all of them in one blow!

Ugh, Lexicanum...It's almost word for word Index Astartes but they've shifted stuff around just enough to ruin it.

The quote should really say, the Iron Warriors lacked the faith to make the sacrifices required to destroy the Imperial Fists utterly.
There's also the fact that Perturabo grew to enjoy the suffering he was inflicting on the Fists so much that he never gave the order for the final attack until it was too late.

Though I've never seen fluff that says Perturabo was on Sebastus IV...He certainly didn't participate in the fighting. He could have been with the Iron Warrior's fleet easily and still given the orders he did, though most of it was preplanned anyway.

BrainDeleted wrote:Ugh, Lexicanum...It's almost word for word Index Astartes but they've shifted stuff around just enough to ruin it.

The quote should really say, the Iron Warriors lacked the faith to make the sacrifices required to destroy the Imperial Fists utterly.
There's also the fact that Perturabo grew to enjoy the suffering he was inflicting on the Fists so much that he never gave the order for the final attack until it was too late.

Though I've never seen fluff that says Perturabo was on Sebastus IV...He certainly didn't participate in the fighting. He could have been with the Iron Warrior's fleet easily and still given the orders he did, though most of it was preplanned anyway.

At the same time though, it depends on the account. Imperial records say that the fists were "fighting like lions" and, well, basically the whole part I quoted, whereas the IW say the Fists were DOOOOOOOOOOOOMED like Malan'tai

The Imperial account cites lack of faith on the Iron Warrior's part as the reason (It does say word for word 'fought like lions' but that's not why they weren't ended by the Iron Warriors).
The Iron Warrior's side says Perturabo was having waaaay too much fun to end it.

It's probably both. They were having fun and didn't really want to take something terrible like 50% casualties to inflict 100% casualties on the Fists.

BrainDeleted wrote:The Imperial account cites lack of faith on the Iron Warrior's part as the reason (It does say word for word 'fought like lions' but that's not why they weren't ended by the Iron Warriors).
The Iron Warrior's side says Perturabo was having waaaay too much fun to end it.

It's probably both. They were having fun and didn't really want to take something terrible like 50% casualties to inflict 100% casualties on the Fists.

hmmmm...no.

Also, IIRC on pg. 36 of Index Astartes I: Iron Warriors it said that Perturabo directed the battle from a tower.

If he were alive at the time, Creed would be there and just CREEEEEEEEEEEEEED some titans in.

Just remember Horus was afraid of Guillium, he only wanted to face him after he had killed the emporor and the otherloyal primarchs

Pony_law wrote:Just remember Horus was afraid of Guillium, he only wanted to face him after he had killed the emporor and the otherloyal primarchs

He was scared of fighting his LEGION. Not him. guilliman was a good tactician but compared to Horus would have had his oesophagus ripped out in a 1-on-1 fight. Horus simply didnt have the resources at the time to hold his own against 100,000 ultramarines and the remainders of the space wolves legion too. He needed the fight ended quickly, which led to the tragic last fight between him and the emperor.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, whats this CREEEED thing about? can someone explain to me?

The Son Of Russ wrote:

Pony_law wrote:Just remember Horus was afraid of Guillium, he only wanted to face him after he had killed the emporor and the otherloyal primarchs

He was scared of fighting his LEGION. Not him. guilliman was a good tactician but compared to Horus would have had his oesophagus ripped out in a 1-on-1 fight. Horus simply didnt have the resources at the time to hold his own against 100,000 ultramarines and the remainders of the space wolves legion too. He needed the fight ended quickly, which led to the tragic last fight between him and the emperor.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, whats this CREEEED thing about? can someone explain to me?

Creed has a special rule that allows him to infiltrate anything that isn't cavalry onto the battlefield, up to and including titans.

Castiel wrote:

The Son Of Russ wrote:

Pony_law wrote:Just remember Horus was afraid of Guillium, he only wanted to face him after he had killed the emporor and the otherloyal primarchs

He was scared of fighting his LEGION. Not him. guilliman was a good tactician but compared to Horus would have had his oesophagus ripped out in a 1-on-1 fight. Horus simply didnt have the resources at the time to hold his own against 100,000 ultramarines and the remainders of the space wolves legion too. He needed the fight ended quickly, which led to the tragic last fight between him and the emperor.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, whats this CREEEED thing about? can someone explain to me?

Creed has a special rule that allows him to infiltrate anything that isn't cavalry onto the battlefield, up to and including titans.

Wow. lol. where does the CREEEEED quote orgiinate from though?

The Son Of Russ wrote:

Castiel wrote:

The Son Of Russ wrote:

Pony_law wrote:Just remember Horus was afraid of Guillium, he only wanted to face him after he had killed the emporor and the otherloyal primarchs

He was scared of fighting his LEGION. Not him. guilliman was a good tactician but compared to Horus would have had his oesophagus ripped out in a 1-on-1 fight. Horus simply didnt have the resources at the time to hold his own against 100,000 ultramarines and the remainders of the space wolves legion too. He needed the fight ended quickly, which led to the tragic last fight between him and the emperor.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, whats this CREEEED thing about? can someone explain to me?

Creed has a special rule that allows him to infiltrate anything that isn't cavalry onto the battlefield, up to and including titans.

Wow. lol. where does the CREEEEED quote orgiinate from though?

His rule says tactical genius, which became tacticul jeenyus on 4chan. Them 4chan started this meme.

Horus nearly did win

I voted Angron. Too many parameters, but mine would be hand to hand combat. And I think Angron was one bad dude.

Pony_law wrote:Just remember Horus was afraid of Guillium, he only wanted to face him after he had killed the emporor and the otherloyal primarchs

He didn't want to face the Ultramarines, not Guilliman.