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labmouse42 wrote:The Bad
* Lack of rapid fire weapons means other armies are going to win the shooting game vs orks. Armies of shoota boys will no longer outshoot armies of MEQ.
* Random charge distances can really hurt orks. While the average charge does go up by 1", all it takes is to see Ghaz roll a 3" charge and it can be game over
* Nobs PKs will have to be more to the middle of the pack of orks. You can't just put it up front and expect all to be good in the world.

The Good
* A ork boy is still 6 points. If 4 or 8 are killed a turn, who cares? Going from a 4+ cover to a 5+ cover is not that big of a deal for a player with 180 models
* If Dakkajets can fly out of range of enemy normal weapons, yet rain fire down on the board, the ork planes are awesome
* If AV 14 vehicles have to suffer 2 destroyed results, battlewagons just got a lot tougher
* Allies can really help cover orks weak areas. Imagine allies with IG, so you can take hydras, a vendetta, and some MG vets.

ghaz has always had random charge distance.
good no retreat seems to be gone.

Im still a total noob to tabletop gaming but it just doesnt seem like the orks got much help at all with 6th. Dont take me wrong i love my orks more than any other army but after reasing this thread seeing the paychic powers and reading kans or bust from a few different places color me discouraged. Maybe you guys feel differently but im still REALLY new and i got my snikrot and ghazzy all painted bought a zagstruk and stormboys (even before reading all this 6th stuff) and im just disheartened to know i have all of these wonderful orky creations and most of the things I thought I would like I'm just ugh lol I only own 5 wagons no deff dreads or kans and everythinf else is infantry in some form or fashion. Maybe its just me and I'm melancholy...I guess I just need to wait on my book to get here and hope and pray I can make a viable list. Sorry for the long sad rant just feeling the hurt out of all theae rumors.

Orkz should still work in 6th, but their versatility has been canned. Which is a shame, since I loved Orkz for being the most versatile army in the game. If you were competent, you could play them with whatever style suited your interests, and could do fairly well. I'm thinking those days are gone. They'll be sliding into what has become the standard for most other armies, with much less internal balance, stressing two or three major effective builds over everything else.

Essentially, it looks like kanbash and horde orkz will be the main players.

As someone who prefers spamming Nobz, I'm not happy at all.

Fafnir wrote:Orkz should still work in 6th, but their versatility has been canned. Which is a shame, since I loved Orkz for being the most versatile army in the game. If you were competent, you could play them with whatever style suited your interests, and could do fairly well. I'm thinking those days are gone. They'll be sliding into what has become the standard for most other armies, with much less internal balance, stressing two or three major effective builds over everything else.

Essentially, it looks like kanbash and horde orkz will be the main players.

As someone who prefers spamming Nobz, I'm not happy at all.

I have FORTY wysiwyg nobs because I wanted to keep trying 5 wagon spam list. I dont mind taking a horde list but they (hopefully not) killed kommandos with snik and in that way I'm wondering where I can even fit ghazzy now with that stupid slow and purposeful. Dont get me wrong I love orky randomness but some of the rules (zag losing D3 boys if he assaults in the same turn as he deep strikes) is just over the top silly. I dunno feeling the loss of the greenskin fun lol
I think it's mostly te bottleneck feeling. Like I have to take 1 or the other or the game is auto over. (I know I know the sky is falling)

Now, has a vehicle counting as obscured been reduced to a 5+ save?

And won't overwatch/reactive fire not be as effective AGAINST Orks in the case of a KFF? It's still shooting so that BS1 effectiveness from marines just got hurt more.

Dr. What wrote:Now, has a vehicle counting as obscured been reduced to a 5+ save?

And won't overwatch/reactive fire not be as effective AGAINST Orks in the case of a KFF? It's still shooting so that BS1 effectiveness from marines just got hurt more.

Everything I have read says 5+ unless FAQ'd which makes me not want to take 2 meks anymore =\

Isn't a 5+ better than a 6+ or no save at all?

Heck, if techmarines and techpriests are supposed to be able to restore d3 hullpoints, then maybe the mek's tools will grant that too?

Heck, I might park my battlewagons with the AV14 facing the foe, send my mighty planes forward as heralds of the dakka that will pursue. I will create a fortress of Orky horror not seen since Ghazghkull's return to Armageddon!

Dr. What wrote:Isn't a 5+ better than a 6+ or no save at all?

Heck, if techmarines and techpriests are supposed to be able to restore d3 hullpoints, then maybe the mek's tools will grant that too?

Heck, I might park my battlewagons with the AV14 facing the foe, send my mighty planes forward as heralds of the dakka that will pursue. I will create a fortress of Orky horror not seen since Ghazghkull's return to Armageddon!

Lol what kind of planes? Like I said I know I know the sky is falling. Just wondering what else I'm going to have to buy to stay in the loop...

Dakkajets and Burna Bommers mostly (though I'm a sucker for deffkoptas).

Fortunately, scratch building is an easy option for Orks and allows a lot of flavor for an army.

The Shadow wrote:Just had a thought about Grot Riggers. Do you reckon they'd be Errata'd to be able to fix a Hull Point on 4+? It doesn't seem unreasonable to me, and it would be pretty useful.

Otherwise, there's not much hope for Mechanised Ork Lists. Particularly Kans (sorry Kan Wall) will probably be hit hard by this Hull Point malarkey. I can't imagine them having more than 2 Hull Points, and two glancing hits on a Killa Kan is not hard to acheive with one round of Bolter Fire

As I have written before, kanz have already been confirmed as being 3 hull points, only one with two for our codex are buggies. You can also no longer kill kanz (or battlewagons, trukks, buggies) by glancing them once or twice. It's also impossible to prevent them from moving or shooting through glances. If you consider that you need to fail three 5+ saves in order to lose a vehicle, rather than one 4+ save, vehicles actually got more durable in the first turns. In addition all vehicles can now move 18" if they don't plan on disembarking models, so a battlewagon rush is nigh impossible to stop now.

On your first turn you move 18"(+1), second turn 6" (+1), disembark 6" and then charge 2d6 with a reroll. That's 30" +2d6 with reroll, the old range was 32" + d6, no reroll.

Writing this, it makes me wonder what Ghazghkull Thrakka's Prophet of the Waagh! is going to do. Auto 12" charge?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dr. What wrote:Dakkajets and Burna Bommers mostly (though I'm a sucker for deffkoptas).

Fortunately, scratch building is an easy option for Orks and allows a lot of flavor for an army.

The blitza bommers are going to be pretty awesome, too, not that they are extremely hard to hit, gain cover, and can move 18" while dropping a bomb.

While I have seen a burna bommer's power first hand (Mine pulverized dozens of necron warriors in its first game), I'm still not sure whether they are worth the points.

Jidmah wrote:

The Shadow wrote:Just had a thought about Grot Riggers. Do you reckon they'd be Errata'd to be able to fix a Hull Point on 4+? It doesn't seem unreasonable to me, and it would be pretty useful.

Otherwise, there's not much hope for Mechanised Ork Lists. Particularly Kans (sorry Kan Wall) will probably be hit hard by this Hull Point malarkey. I can't imagine them having more than 2 Hull Points, and two glancing hits on a Killa Kan is not hard to acheive with one round of Bolter Fire

As I have written before, kanz have already been confirmed as being 3 hull points, only one with two for our codex are buggies. You can also no longer kill kanz (or battlewagons, trukks, buggies) by glancing them once or twice. It's also impossible to prevent them from moving or shooting through glances. If you consider that you need to fail three 5+ saves in order to lose a vehicle, rather than one 4+ save, vehicles actually got more durable in the first turns. In addition all vehicles can now move 18" if they don't plan on disembarking models, so a battlewagon rush is nigh impossible to stop now.

On your first turn you move 18"(+1), second turn 6" (+1), disembark 6" and then charge 2d6 with a reroll. That's 30" +2d6 with reroll, the old range was 32" + d6, no reroll.

Writing this, it makes me wonder what Ghazghkull Thrakka's Prophet of the Waagh! is going to do. Auto 12" charge?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dr. What wrote:Dakkajets and Burna Bommers mostly (though I'm a sucker for deffkoptas).

Fortunately, scratch building is an easy option for Orks and allows a lot of flavor for an army.

The blitza bommers are going to be pretty awesome, too, not that they are extremely hard to hit, gain cover, and can move 18" while dropping a bomb.

While I have seen a burna bommer's power first hand (Mine pulverized dozens of necron warriors in its first game), I'm still not sure whether they are worth the points.

What do you think of ghazzy with a group of manz now? I was thinking about that...get the wagons of boyz and then manz up and lootas get some dakka jets and just steam roller everything...but my sky is falling theory revolved around the hull points being the death of vehicles.

Fearless wounds are out, apparently..

This is pretty huge for Orkz,and nobody is really talking about this =D

Gharron wrote:... Maybe you guys feel differently but im still REALLY new and i got my snikrot and ghazzy all painted bought a zagstruk and stormboys (even before reading all this 6th stuff) and im just disheartened to know i have all of these wonderful orky creations and most of the things I thought I would like I'm just ugh....

I don't follow you- I think it will be like this :
Ghazzy still huge, and now basic power weapon can not ignore his 2+ armor save
Zagstruck can 'safely' land farther from the target then charge it 2D6 "
and I am pretty sure snikrot can still outflank & charge

I don't use a big mek. I do Ghaz with Snikrot and 5 kommanods, two w/flamers. Grotsnik with 9 meganobz in a battlewagon w/deffrolla for delivery until they have to get out and charge as per rage. Another bw with 19 slugga boyz and nob w/klaw, two small squads of lootas, and the rest is boyz squads. I do reasonably well in local tourneys, playing against wolves, GK, BA and necrons. Space Wolves give the most trouble, moatly due to thunder cav.

Edit - Actually, I'm wondering whether I'll need to adapt too much with sixth. I haven't really even looked at flyers yet though.

XC18 wrote:
and I am pretty sure snikrot can still outflank & charge

Check the 6th ed News thread. No he can't.

Fafnir wrote:

XC18 wrote:
and I am pretty sure snikrot can still outflank & charge

Check the 6th ed News thread. No he can't.

Can reserves come in and charge? I'm running a 2k horde list saturday as a last hoorah to 5th...may take snikrot to see what I missed out on..
I think the planes and lootas will make a decent combo. I over did it on the points for my wagons in the past. So I'll be looking into more mobile boys squads and ghazzy with some manz

The Shadow wrote:What do you think of ghazzy with a group of manz now? I was thinking about that...get the wagons of boyz and then manz up and lootas get some dakka jets and just steam roller everything...but my sky is falling theory revolved around the hull points being the death of vehicles.

The will probably still overkill everything twice. For the same reasons as before he should be put with units that can make more use of his damage output. He is also pretty awesome with boyz and burnaz now, as long as he is the closest model, he will be taking the saves. If he fails his 2+ save, you get another 2+ roll to redirect the wound to the boyz, effectively giving your entire mob mega armor.

Fafnir wrote:

XC18 wrote:
and I am pretty sure snikrot can still outflank & charge

Check the 6th ed News thread. No he can't.

I have not found a confirmation of this from anyone holding a rulebook, yet. Would you mind linking to a confirmation?

The will probably still overkill everything twice. For the same reasons as before he should be put with units that can make more use of his damage output. He is also pretty awesome with boyz and burnaz now, as long as he is the closest model, he will be taking the saves. If he fails his 2+ save, you get another 2+ roll to redirect the wound to the boyz, effectively giving your entire mob mega armor.

This is going to be fun.

Jidmah wrote:

Fafnir wrote:

XC18 wrote:
and I am pretty sure snikrot can still outflank & charge

Check the 6th ed News thread. No he can't.

I have not found a confirmation of this from anyone holding a rulebook, yet. Would you mind linking to a confirmation?

the only mention I have seen of this so far is on the dark city forum dedictaed to DE where one of the users claims to have the rulebook and is replying to questions from the users. I am still hopping is BS though because it defeats the all purpose of reserving the unit.

TheHarleqwin wrote:

The will probably still overkill everything twice. For the same reasons as before he should be put with units that can make more use of his damage output. He is also pretty awesome with boyz and burnaz now, as long as he is the closest model, he will be taking the saves. If he fails his 2+ save, you get another 2+ roll to redirect the wound to the boyz, effectively giving your entire mob mega armor.

This is going to be fun.

So you guys think him in a BW with boyz? If snikrot can still come in on the board edge (fingers crossed) is this still a viable means for ghaz? just trying to work on a few ideas.

I'll almost certainly put him in a BW now. It used to be a risk to run him with Snik, but he would normally chew up a tank or a TEQ squad before going down. Now the benefits in a frontal assault outweight that surprise in my books. The question now is with boyz and Grotsnik, which goes with the MANZ, and which with boyz?

Jidmah wrote:

The Shadow wrote:Just had a thought about Grot Riggers. Do you reckon they'd be Errata'd to be able to fix a Hull Point on 4+? It doesn't seem unreasonable to me, and it would be pretty useful.

Otherwise, there's not much hope for Mechanised Ork Lists. Particularly Kans (sorry Kan Wall) will probably be hit hard by this Hull Point malarkey. I can't imagine them having more than 2 Hull Points, and two glancing hits on a Killa Kan is not hard to acheive with one round of Bolter Fire

As I have written before, kanz have already been confirmed as being 3 hull points, only one with two for our codex are buggies. You can also no longer kill kanz (or battlewagons, trukks, buggies) by glancing them once or twice. It's also impossible to prevent them from moving or shooting through glances. If you consider that you need to fail three 5+ saves in order to lose a vehicle, rather than one 4+ save, vehicles actually got more durable in the first turns. In addition all vehicles can now move 18" if they don't plan on disembarking models, so a battlewagon rush is nigh impossible to stop now.

On your first turn you move 18"(+1), second turn 6" (+1), disembark 6" and then charge 2d6 with a reroll. That's 30" +2d6 with reroll, the old range was 32" + d6, no reroll.

Writing this, it makes me wonder what Ghazghkull Thrakka's Prophet of the Waagh! is going to do. Auto 12" charge?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dr. What wrote:Dakkajets and Burna Bommers mostly (though I'm a sucker for deffkoptas).

Fortunately, scratch building is an easy option for Orks and allows a lot of flavor for an army.

The blitza bommers are going to be pretty awesome, too, not that they are extremely hard to hit, gain cover, and can move 18" while dropping a bomb.

While I have seen a burna bommer's power first hand (Mine pulverized dozens of necron warriors in its first game), I'm still not sure whether they are worth the points.

Well, that is good news

Bacms wrote:the only mention I have seen of this so far is on the dark city forum dedictaed to DE where one of the users claims to have the rulebook and is replying to questions from the users. I am still hopping is BS though because it defeats the all purpose of reserving the unit.

chizal wrote:

just to clear up the reserve/charging rule

All I had to do was ask nicely and get flamed for just reading 150 out of 200 pages

God thats bad news lol kinda makes snik feel useless :(
After 5 of my MANz went down to jotww Id be worried about him anywhere :[

More buffs:

Skimmers no longer dodge on a 3+, but on a 5+ (4+ if flat-out).

Happy ramming eldar stuff!

I've always put Ghaz with Boyz, to have him disembark and charge something by himself. He's never failed me.

EDIT: How Wagons work in 6th, I won't know for sure till I read the rulebook for a few times and start getting an idea of its flow. We also need those FAQs! If Ghaz does give an auto 12", by Gork.

So far, I've not felt the sky is falling on Orks.
Really the biggest weakness of the Ork army is difficulty fielding effective anti-tank.
With the change to hull points, and our massed fire, our one true weakness has been shored up quite a bit.
All the other new rules either buff Orks (a little), or equalize something we were slightly worse at than other armies.
I don't see any really big problems with Orks and the new rules.
I think it hurts top tier armies the most.

This is all said pre-FAQ. They still have the potential to either buff the crap out of Orks, or break them entirely. I'm not relaxing yet.

BTW does anyone has any rumour on the profile of power klaws? They get their own entry on the list which is worrying me that they might work worst then power fists

Based on what I have seen they are exactly like Power Fists.
Unless something happens in the FAQ.

Reading from the pic that Jidmah quoted, koptas just got even more chafted...

Turbo bost is a special ability... Hence no outflanking and turbobost for save and a better position...though, It's kinda fun that this is a kick in the groin for all jetbikes, bikes, and flyers that happen to enter via reserves, being kept in reserve, forced in reserve or outflanking...

Is it true on heroic intervention aswell? As it's a dpecial rule for their deepstrike (beginning of turn) that mainly affects their assault later on...

Oh, and I can't waagh the turn I move on from reserves?

This is beginning to feel silly...