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Duromiir wrote:I had a goofy idea before:

Blood angels allied with Crimson Fists.

Take Kantor, a scout (sniper) squad with Telion for Troops and Sternguard in a pod with Combi-flamers (and possibly a melta/plasma gun or two.) Camp them (with Pedro) on an objective, dropping d3 flamer hits per combi-flamer on the first unit to assault them, then fight back with the bonus attacks Kantor grants.

Meanwhile Telion (and on a 6, his snipers) can pick off high-value targets in units the BA troops assault on the following phase.

Of course, its probably terrible, but it sounded interesting in my head, anyway

Blood Angels. Do. Not. Need. Crimson Fists. Nevertheless, the idea is nice.

I think Sternguard may be the new workhorses among my Blood Angels, backed by Tactical Squads and Devastators, with Assault Squads relegated to a QRF, and Vanguards sent deep to pursue targets hiding from my heavy weapons.

I like the idea of making more use of chaplains, and with volume of attacks and rerolls all around, that's a nasty assault for any opponent, even terminators.


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Mind you they're absolutely most likely to be completely boned if the enemy gets good enough luck.


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Has anybody made use of the biomancy powers? I have a feeling my librarian could really benefit, especially from having T7 and S8 on the charge if I can get lucky and get that power, mind you, unless he has a force axe, he still wouldn't be somebody i'd throw into combat with terminators, although he'd likely be able to hold against a few attacks if I were to do so, and the other members of his unit could do their part I guess

But yeah, what do people think so far?

I'm thinking Blood Lance is a nice Anti-Aircraft weapon. No to-hit roll so Skyfire is not necessary. Decent enough range, especially on a Jump Libby.

Hi all, new on the forum after being a longtime lurker.
Been reading the thread and feel i must get involved as some people are really missing the point with DC.

6th edition DC are awsome theres no ''if's'' and ''but's'' about it. someone on here called them godly? thats exactly what they are. I believe DC have always been the pinicle of our book, and like with everything else in there it's looking past the problems and coming up with sollutions thats the key. everything has to work like a well oiled machine, each part complimenting another to do it's job. Thanks to matt ward we dont get greatness at low prices either. so it's a small well oiled machine!

in 5th ed the issue with DC was not having them run round the table like a cat on a laser pen. Solution? The ultimate 200 point assault vehicle. fill up a stormraven with DC, chaplain along with a dc dread because you can. I ran 2 stormravens, the other filled with meph and a furioso and this was the bases of my entire armys strike force. on a single turn you can assault the dred into troops, multi assault the dc at troops plus a vehicle with a fist or 2 and meph and the furioso into whatever else you want crippling half of an entire army. there is no greater feeling than killing of half a greyknights list watching your DC dreds talons chew through over 400 points worth of GK terminators one after another!

My point, there is nothing else that can hit as hard with that many attacks and re-rolls to hit and wound from chaplain as cheap. And now they have just been made superhuman almost. It's easy to think there not scoring units. so what! it doesn't seem to bother people when they spend 250 points on a LR Crusader that it's not scoring and now is useless from 4 glances?

For just over the same price as dante with 2 units of sanguinary guard you can blob 30 standard DC on foot with a chaplain. How much of a threat to an opponent is knowing within 2 game turns the enemy will be able to assault with a possible 150 strength 5 attacks with re-rolls to hit and wound. Lets say only 50% get in. thats still 75 attacks with all the trimmings. 25% = 37 attacks. nothing can survive and with FNP they will be making it accross the board better than most.

The rules for flamers are better now. take ten DC with packs and Hand flamers and you have an ultra deepstrike assault/anti assault unit with +1 charge attack from hammer of wrath. And if anyone charges them first before your next turn you get to overwatch with auto hitting d3 attacks per flamer. I mean who relies on pistols anyway? deepstrike them in tight to Guard/nids/tau. Shooting, flame the lot then get your 2d6 assault move to close the deal.

if your playing 2k put astorath in and take another 30. 60 raging dc coming at you across the board leaving plenty to spend on whatever you want. Heavy weapons? you could save and drop the chaplain and blob all 60.

The possibilty's are endless but i reacon DC are a must in any BA list in 6th to say the least.

I agree with most of what you are saying, but I'd be wary about fielding units of 30 (and you're saying multiple) - if you fought guard, that just sounds like a very nasty Death Company pizza on the battlefield..

Hmm, Chaplain + DC squad + DC dread + Stormraven sounds like a pretty awesome allied force.

Although considering DC dread talons are AP3, it won't be blending any terminator squads. Far from it.

As for Hand Flamers, if you take one, may as well take two and fire both.

I didn't really like sending EDIT DC Dread (for some reason I said termies) into CC with terminators before, and that's no different now, so that's not as big a deal as it could be. But anything that is not terminator is pretty much mulch against such a monster with so many attacks and BT bonus.

6th is a deeply objective based game, death stars are not the greatest idea if you want to win games. If you run them in smaller squads like 10s, you'd probably be better off.

Yeah, I'm thinking 10, maybe 12 at the most, and not all over the board, but they can take care of the nastiest threats. I mean, somebody might field one single deathstar in an objectives game, and I can take it out with the DC and send them after other stuff provided they get the charge.

Titan Atlas wrote:Yeah, I'm thinking 10, maybe 12 at the most, and not all over the board, but they can take care of the nastiest threats. I mean, somebody might field one single deathstar in an objectives game, and I can take it out with the DC and send them after other stuff provided they get the charge.

Yep. The other thing to consider is that some scenarios cater to specific FOC slots, so going with a single type of unit just won't work. I'd suggest maybe two squads of DC supported by something else. Fast attack and heavy support are going to be valuable too.

Stoffer wrote:

Titan Atlas wrote:Yeah, I'm thinking 10, maybe 12 at the most, and not all over the board, but they can take care of the nastiest threats. I mean, somebody might field one single deathstar in an objectives game, and I can take it out with the DC and send them after other stuff provided they get the charge.

Yep. The other thing to consider is that some scenarios cater to specific FOC slots, so going with a single type of unit just won't work. I'd suggest maybe two squads of DC supported by something else. Fast attack and heavy support are going to be valuable too.

Exactly, a couple units is all you need and you can have them hunt pretty much whatever.

Agreed. One large blast template at S10 over their heads and they have nothing to rely on other than a cover save. No doubt DC got a boost in 6th ed, but they still have one same problem that they had in 5th. How to get them across the table safely and efficiently?

I will not be buying SRs for two reasons; Their monetary price and the fact that if it gets shot down while zooming, its contents are toast. Oh, and they always start in reserve? WTF, c'mon GW. Best efficient option still (IMO) is a rhino. Even then, you'd have to saturate the target. If your opponent is smart, that'll be the first vehicle he shoots at anyway.

Comment on blood lance: YES! AMAZING! SOO GOOD! Psychic shooting attacks (witchfire) can now be fired out of a vehicle moving 12" WITHOUT ANY PENALTIES!!! That means Blood lance has an effective threat range (one average) of 24" while the Libby is embarked on a rhino.

Comment on psychic powers: Haven't used biomancy yet. So far, I like telepathy and divination. It is important to me that the discipline has a good Primaris power since the powers you get are random, you gotta have a decent backup. Prescience is really awesome! Grants you re-rolls to hit while the spell is in effect. That means shooting and assaulting. And maybe even overwatch? Have to check on that. Aside from the Primaris powers, Invisibility is wayyyyy too good to pass up. So is Hallucination.However you have to have Warp Charge 2 to use them, but I'll pay the 50 point upgrade to make the epistolarys. Keep this in mind too, I am trying to stay away from malediction and witchfire spells as everyone gets a defense against them now.

talons are no longer chewing termies i know. i refer to the old days and my lucky rolling.

as for the 30, 60 man units. they were just examples. what i'm trying to say is even though san guard are now much better. for the cost to buy dante and a couple of units you could buy DC equivelant which is far better at it's job. with guard your talking one guard armys shooting at one unit. plus they've got to make silly rolls with lasguns first.

the above are really just examples of running DC heavy without astorath. the fact that he's now better, still doesn't make me think he's worth taking over other stuff. The only time i would run him is for the other benefits allowing me red thirst easier and to squad the dc only. A strike force needs to take all comers. 2 fists in a unit of 10 DC allow reroll to hit against vehicles. with a possible 8 glances your landraider or whatever is gone. on a troop unit it's killing them hands down. and thats only 10 troops.

it's the best assault unit we have. 10 DC compared to a unit of similar cost termies. claw, hammer whatever. termies wont win even with saves. Termies are tougher yes but thats not what i'm saying. to win you first have to kill stuff and nothing does it quiet like DC.

For the last year i've run DC in my list at various things. Blob necron warriors, lysander and his termie unit, mordrak and ghost knights, fateweaver and daemon's, marines, loads of things. Very very very rarely have they not destroyed things. The volume of assaulting dice with re-rolls is ridiculous and there's a combination of weapon loadouts to beat anything. I'm not saying there unbeatable don't get me wrong but you'd have to spend silly points in return.

At the end of the day it's what you do with them. sit there you'll die. drop pod, stormraven, razorback, rhino or landraider. get them in combat they will perform everytime.

Oh no, I don't disagree about how they'd wreck termies. Just gotta be responsible with how you use them, and even with the 30-man unit, that's.....well, that's overkill but I suppose you could see it as having a very long-lasting deathstar-hunter.

The big question is whether the Raven's special disembarkation rule works when zooming. The rulebook states models cannot embark or disembark from a zooming flier, but they can't do that from a transport moving flat-out either, and the Raven has a special rule for that situation. Is this in either the IG or Blood Angels FAQ? I can't access GW's site from work, unfortunately.

Also, you can only run one unit of DC without Astorath so one 30-man unit with no backup unit is especially dangerous, imho.

Taking 30 Death Company nets you the same result as a squad of 10-15 most of the time. 30 is a waste of points.

Andilus Greatsword wrote:Taking 30 Death Company nets you the same result as a squad of 10-15 most of the time. 30 is a waste of points.

QFT. You'd be hard pressed to get 30 bodies in a 2" melee range. Not to mention how unwieldy it would be to move that many around the table.

thunderlips wrote:talons are no longer chewing termies i know. i refer to the old days and my lucky rolling.

as for the 30, 60 man units. they were just examples. what i'm trying to say is even though san guard are now much better. for the cost to buy dante and a couple of units you could buy DC equivelant which is far better at it's job. with guard your talking one guard armys shooting at one unit. plus they've got to make silly rolls with lasguns first.

the above are really just examples of running DC heavy without astorath. the fact that he's now better, still doesn't make me think he's worth taking over other stuff. The only time i would run him is for the other benefits allowing me red thirst easier and to squad the dc only. A strike force needs to take all comers. 2 fists in a unit of 10 DC allow reroll to hit against vehicles. with a possible 8 glances your landraider or whatever is gone. on a troop unit it's killing them hands down. and thats only 10 troops.

it's the best assault unit we have. 10 DC compared to a unit of similar cost termies. claw, hammer whatever. termies wont win even with saves. Termies are tougher yes but thats not what i'm saying. to win you first have to kill stuff and nothing does it quiet like DC.

For the last year i've run DC in my list at various things. Blob necron warriors, lysander and his termie unit, mordrak and ghost knights, fateweaver and daemon's, marines, loads of things. Very very very rarely have they not destroyed things. The volume of assaulting dice with re-rolls is ridiculous and there's a combination of weapon loadouts to beat anything. I'm not saying there unbeatable don't get me wrong but you'd have to spend silly points in return.

At the end of the day it's what you do with them. sit there you'll die. drop pod, stormraven, razorback, rhino or landraider. get them in combat they will perform everytime.

Astorath is huge for the 1-3 red thirst though. If you're running a list with a lot of infantry (Devs, scouts and/or assault marines) he might be worth it purely for the 50/50 chance of FnP. I don't like FNP much for assaulting units after it was nerfed, but if I have 3 dev squads with FnP they become a bitch to dig out. Bikes, dreads, you name it, red thirst is valuable.

Edit: You can basically math your way out of it. If you have something like 7 infantry units with red thirst, Astorath becomes worth if in place of priests.

Mordechai wrote:

Andilus Greatsword wrote:Taking 30 Death Company nets you the same result as a squad of 10-15 most of the time. 30 is a waste of points.

QFT. You'd be hard pressed to get 30 bodies in a 2" melee range. Not to mention how unwieldy it would be to move that many around the table.

Yeah, exactly. Only realistic uses of that big a blob would be to brutally assault (and if that fails, tarpit and still win the assault) but it's an expensive points sink and leaves a lot of guys unable to attack. The other feasible idea would be to multi-assault, but if anybody is stupid enough to stick two units close by each other, open to a 30-man DC charge, they deserve to lose anyways.

So realistically, as long as the other player knows what he's getting into, 30-man DC mobs is just a bad idea.

I'd get to get some thoughts on how people are going to field their DA.

I think Jump Packs are still too expensive, and I want to exploit the new Rapid Fire + Relentless rules. So I'm looking at fielding 10-15 on foot with Bolters and 1-2 power fists. I have also considered Drop Podding them in, but I hate actually buying Drop Pod models. $40 for something that lets me Deep Strike a unit and then sits there and does nothing? Meh.

Not a fan of the Stormravens either, I think they're just too expensive and you end up with two 200 point vehicles toting around 400 points worth of stuff (DC + DC Dread) and that's pretty much your army.

DC Dreads are awesome, Str 10 I4 5 attacks on the charge is NICE, but once again, it's Drop Pod (meh) or Stormraven (meh).

Griever wrote:I'd get to get some thoughts on how people are going to field their DC.

Fixed

Mordechai wrote:

Andilus Greatsword wrote:Taking 30 Death Company nets you the same result as a squad of 10-15 most of the time. 30 is a waste of points.

QFT. You'd be hard pressed to get 30 bodies in a 2" melee range. Not to mention how unwieldy it would be to move that many around the table.

You also have to consider that if you multi charge, you loose the +2A and +1F. How many single units require 30 DC to be taken care of?

Rugrud wrote:

Mordechai wrote:

Andilus Greatsword wrote:Taking 30 Death Company nets you the same result as a squad of 10-15 most of the time. 30 is a waste of points.

QFT. You'd be hard pressed to get 30 bodies in a 2" melee range. Not to mention how unwieldy it would be to move that many around the table.

You also have to consider that if you multi charge, you loose the +2A and +1F. How many single units require 30 DC to be taken care of?

Yeah, if you multi-assault then you lose 2/5 of your attacks and have a lower chance of wounding. That's huge. They might even lose the assault because of it (unless they're fighting a semi-ways decent assault unit in there somewhere).

Did not see the Glaive Encarmine in the FAQ, is it in the Rulebook chart? Does it depend if it is an axe/sword/etc or is it one profile? Wondering what happened to my Glaives with edition change. I am loving that I mixed in axes with my Vanguards, they can truly handle about anything now.

BladeWalker wrote:Did not see the Glaive Encarmine in the FAQ, is it in the Rulebook chart? Does it depend if it is an axe/sword/etc or is it one profile? Wondering what happened to my Glaives with edition change. I am loving that I mixed in axes with my Vanguards, they can truly handle about anything now.

They are "unusual power weapons", so AP3 power swords, essentially.

Stoffer wrote:
Astorath is huge for the 1-3 red thirst though. If you're running a list with a lot of infantry (Devs, scouts and/or assault marines) he might be worth it purely for the 50/50 chance of FnP. I don't like FNP much for assaulting units after it was nerfed, but if I have 3 dev squads with FnP they become a bitch to dig out. Bikes, dreads, you name it, red thirst is valuable.

Red Thirst grants FC and Fearless, not FNP. Taking Astorath for fearless though is pretty valuable alone. Still, not enough IMO to take him to the field. I'd rather field Epistolary Librarians on bikes.

J Mac wrote:

Stoffer wrote:
Astorath is huge for the 1-3 red thirst though. If you're running a list with a lot of infantry (Devs, scouts and/or assault marines) he might be worth it purely for the 50/50 chance of FnP. I don't like FNP much for assaulting units after it was nerfed, but if I have 3 dev squads with FnP they become a bitch to dig out. Bikes, dreads, you name it, red thirst is valuable.

Red Thirst grants FC and Fearless, not FNP. Taking Astorath for fearless though is pretty valuable alone. Still, not enough IMO to take him to the field. I'd rather field Epistolary Librarians on bikes.

Ah yeah, you're right of course.

Omegus wrote:

BladeWalker wrote:Did not see the Glaive Encarmine in the FAQ, is it in the Rulebook chart? Does it depend if it is an axe/sword/etc or is it one profile? Wondering what happened to my Glaives with edition change. I am loving that I mixed in axes with my Vanguards, they can truly handle about anything now.

They are "unusual power weapons", so AP3 power swords, essentially.

I don't think so. They are labeled in their entry as "master crafted power weapons." clearly stating it is a power weapon. Unusual power weapon would be something in its entry listed like a "power flail" or "power mace". The fact that it is a power weapon means however it is modeled, becomes the ruling for it.

Not a fan of how this works, as it abuses modeling for advantage, which is something GW has ALWAYS been against. However, they have balanced every profile to make somewhat fair. For example, power maul grants +2 str but is only AP4, or the axe which is +1 str at AP2, but will strike last due to unwieldy.