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Sidstyler wrote:No kidding. It's kind of awesome, but imagine how much those things must have cost, lol...

Not when you understand that his is a retailer and would buy them considerably cheaper than you or I could.

He can effectively write them off against business costs and be done with it.

Thrax wrote:Perhaps if you lack a receipt as a result of receiving the items as a gift, etc, you might need to send them in. I anticipate this scenario myself this month as it is my birthday soon and the wife will no doubt have gotten me some fineco$t Dark Eldar. Hopefully she kept the slips, but it is likely she did not and I will probably be sending it all into GW. *fingers-crossed*

Oh god damn it, lol, I don't have the receipt either. In fact I never got one to take home with me, when I bought the incubi that day I also bought a used D&D book that was priced at $17.50 but the guy charged me full price (since it looked like it was practically brand new). I took my receipt and the book back inside to get that corrected and I never got the receipt back.

Ah well, I'd just stick them in one of those cheap bubblewrap envelopes and be done with it then. It's not like they're going to be resold anyway.

I went to my local GW again today (3rd time since the release) and yet again over 50% of the models in the clear boxes had serious and obvious bubble/warping problems or were missing large chunks.

One guy in the store had bought Abbadon and he said he had spend the last 2 hours trying to fix all the major problems with greenstuff and superglue (for small bubbling).
This surprised me as Abbadon had been one of the models everyone said was great (I'd heard once that a helmet on a spike had meen slightly deformed).


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I did not buy anything from them.

GWOZ doesn't deserve the business.

Which begs the question, given that GW have admitted working on this resin switch for up to 2 years now, how long does the average consumer's patience last for? How long do we give them to sort the QA problems out?

If it took them two years to get to this point then I haven't much confidence that things will improve at all, this is probably the quality we're going to be expecting from now on for these type of releases and I'm not too thrilled about it. Of course I'd like to be wrong about that and see GW improve the quality tenfold but I won't 'be holding my breath!

I'm something of a gambler and even I get a bad feeling when I think about making another Finecast purchase.

Sidstyler wrote:If it took them two years to get to this point then I haven't much confidence that things will improve at all, this is probably the quality we're going to be expecting from now on for these type of releases and I'm not too thrilled about it. Of course I'd like to be wrong about that and see GW improve the quality tenfold but I won't 'be holding my breath!

I'm something of a gambler and even I get a bad feeling when I think about making another Finecast purchase.

To be fair, 2 years of R & D is not the same as going into full scale production. The optimist in me thinks that a lot of the current issues can be put down to rushing the release, trying to keep up with demand rather than any inherent flaw in the process. Of course, if the new resin method is too slow to keep stock levels satisfied then that's a new problem, especially if they have to keep rushing stock out. Even more so when you factor in having to produce extra to cope with the returns that will be coming in.

One would hope that like any production process, once the line has been in place for a while, it shakes out and stabilises once the process is refined.

The pessimist in me thinks that if GW were planning this for 2 years, why did they botch the release so badly, both in terms of being seemingly caught by surprise with the resupply needed and in terms of the PR? Baffling really.

Sidstyler wrote:

legion4500 wrote:Whats the worst they can do?

Insinuate that I'm a liar trying to get free stuff?

I'm not sure why they would do that to thebadabwar, if it's true then I hope it was just because he was calling about several boxes at once because if I were the guy on the phone I can see why that might sound fishy.

I don't know about consumer law in the US, but in the UK you shouldn't be left out of pocket having to ask for a replacement. If the company want the damaged one back you are within your rights to ask for compensation for the postage/packing to return the item to them. This is why GW and many other companies do not ask for the damaged product to be returned.

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:... ...

They made out in WD that the secrecy was a virtue.

It was not.

Everything done by GW is a virtue, because it is done by GW.

At the end of the day, polystyrene, or maybe ABS, is the best material for larger models. Neither metal nor resin are properly suitable for casting the parts for a large figure or vehicle due to a number of factors such as weight and structural strength of the material.

The Finecast resin is a clever way to re-use the original masters and avoid the cost of moving to proper injection moulding.

As for the detail question, I have seen enough metal models from Studio McVey, MERCS and Infinity to know that metal is capable of excellent detail.

I'm now up to 9 (NINE) miscast Captain Sterns in a row.

Absolutely fething amazing, GW.

Kilkrazy wrote:As for the detail question, I have seen enough metal models from Studio McVey, MERCS and Infinity to know that metal is capable of excellent detail.

It certainly is, looking at companies like Verlinden and Andrea you get smooth fine casting in resin and metal. They seem capable of casting fine detail like straps and wires on 54mm figures that are finer than what GW produce on their 28mm figures and they don't have a grainy quality to the metal or the pitting you sometimes see. My guess is that due to a desire to produce high volume GW have a tendency to place speedy production over quality which means not using optimal temperatures and allowing models to cool before removing from the mould.

filbert wrote:To be fair, 2 years of R & D is not the same as going into full scale production. The optimist in me thinks that a lot of the current issues can be put down to rushing the release, trying to keep up with demand rather than any inherent flaw in the process. Of course, if the new resin method is too slow to keep stock levels satisfied then that's a new problem, especially if they have to keep rushing stock out. Even more so when you factor in having to produce extra to cope with the returns that will be coming in.

One would hope that like any production process, once the line has been in place for a while, it shakes out and stabilises once the process is refined.

Yeah, that's true. I wasn't really being fair.

winterdyne wrote:I'm now up to 9 (NINE) miscast Captain Sterns in a row.

Good god, nine?

I guess like a lot of people, I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt thus far but in general, people don't have limitless patience - they need to shape up quickly or it will cause more drams I think, especially bearing in mind winterdyne's Stern troubles...

filbert wrote:I guess like a lot of people, I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt thus far but in general, people don't have limitless patience - they need to shape up quickly or it will cause more drams I think, especially bearing in mind winterdyne's Stern troubles...

It also doesn't help that we're being charged an arm and a leg for them. Could be why people have so little tolerance for failure.

I think by now is safe to say that if you decide to buy finecast you will have to compromise and accept some considerable casting flaws... Unless things change 180 theres no point in buying these and expect something else.

Resins never were the best material for heavy duty gamming, they are better for display painting and one character here and there... not for full regiments.
I espected that the finecast formula had considered that because even if the quality control is very bad on the casting department and even if you fix all flaws there's one thing you cannot avoid and that is the fact this material is not apropriated for gamming miniatures... one thing is a metal joint that breaks because modeller is not experienced and mess up the assembly another thing is breaking spikes, swords small things after all is assembled by a pro modeller... theres no way to avoid that... and that makes a hell of a diference.

Its like you buy a car with cosmetic defects and you fix them ,at you own expenses, but when you run it the motor melts and car goes no where.

winterdyne wrote:I'm now up to 9 (NINE) miscast Captain Sterns in a row.

Absolutely fething amazing, GW.

That....is special.

Sidstyler wrote:If it took them two years to get to this point then I haven't much confidence that things will improve at all, this is probably the quality we're going to be expecting from now on for these type of releases and I'm not too thrilled about it. Of course I'd like to be wrong about that and see GW improve the quality tenfold but I won't 'be holding my breath!

I'm something of a gambler and even I get a bad feeling when I think about making another Finecast purchase.

When did they make the decision to stop buying metal and buy in resin and rework the moulds? If they decided months ago they may have thought that production problems would be sorted by now but when it came to switch over time and they had few metal models in stock and the moulds were ready they couldn't delay.

I don't understand why they needed the secrecy. Were they under some delusion that the resin would be so great that people would stop buying the metals for months waiting for the resin to appear? Because if that's the case they don't understand hobbyists at all, they hate change and the unknown, they want consistency and assured quality.

Yeah, it doesn't make much sense to me either. I can see why they do that with army releases, because they want you to buy the old book even if the new one's just around the corner (which is a dick move), but there's no reason to keep this kind of thing secret.

winterdyne wrote:I'm now up to 9 (NINE) miscast Captain Sterns in a row.

Out of interest, are you seeing the same flaws each time?

Sidstyler wrote:Yeah, it doesn't make much sense to me either. I can see why they do that with army releases, because they want you to buy the old book even if the new one's just around the corner (which is a dick move), but there's no reason to keep this kind of thing secret.

I really have to agree with you here. I can understand why car companies do this sort of thing, because technically the older model car is still completely drivable and worth owning, even if it's not the new, flashier model. You can still get 100% use out of it as intended and enjoy owning it. However, what GW is doing with the rulebooks, etc is like someone selling you a package of meat, and deliberately keeping the expiration date hidden from you. Sure, you might have 2 years to eat the meat (if kept frozen, perhaps? - work with me here) but it might already be a month from spoiling and you can't tell the difference because you don't know when it expires. I think GW trying to obscure their future releases and pinning potentially (and knowingly doing so) soon-to-be worthless (aside from being an overpriced fluff pamphlet) rulebooks on their hobbyists is a complete and total dick move - especially when they're gouging people around $40 a book these days. That's like someone selling you a concert ticket well aware of the fact that the show is going to be cancelled next month. Talk about terrible ethics and a lack of respect for their customers. After everything that I've seen I certainly don't expect GW to have some altruistic viewpoint on their sales, but c'mon.

I think another possible reason why so many people are pissed about fineco$t is that many of these models are little centerpieces for their armies and units that they want to have painted really nice and detailed, and so when the pricey character or what have you is all jacked up out of the mold, people are feeling increasingly let down because they really wanted to have something cool to center their unit around, where instead the plastic unit has less defects than the centerpiece.

Again, my two cents there.

Popped into my LGS today and took a look at their Finecast range. They had taken down some models that had serious flaws, such as packed with the wrong base or missing components (not sure if this was due to incomplete sprues or miscasts). Most of the figures on the shelf looked perfect, although there were a few with serious flaws. Lelith Hesperax had an air bubble where her chin should be, for example - that mini seems to have a lot of problems. I bought a Shadowseer, because it's the last model I need for my Harlequins collection (including all the Rogue Trader ones ) and it looked flawless. Shop assistant checked blister over before taking my cash, didn't spot any problems either. Got it home, there are 13 very small air bubbles - 4 on the backpack, 2 on the fingers of the left hand, one on the end of the staff, one in the edge of the belt, one on the fingers of the right hand, 2 on the shuriken pistol, 2 on top of the head - all in positions that were hard to see while it was in the blister. Thankfully, none of the holes obliterate detail, tho some are in tricky places. The holes are too large to ignore or cover with paint, but small enough to be a pain to use green stuff on, so eugh. Some are small enough to use superglue on, but I feel uncomfortable smearing superglue all over the thing.

There's resin inside the hood, between the head and hood, where there should be empty space. The resin itself is better than I expected, soft but not too soft, except for the thin staff, which is very wobbly and bendy. It cuts slightly easier than plastic. Using files is not a problem, so long as you are gentle. I tried one out on a bit of sprue first, then on an inconspicuous bit of the model. Mould lines removed very easily, no damage caused.

All in all, I wish I'd bought a second hand metal one off ebay. These are not an improvement on metal. I would choose plesin over metal if I wanted to do a tricky conversion, or if the metal was much more expensive, but otherwise I'm favouring second-hand pewter whenever possible. I stand by my decision to not buy finecast unless i can check it in store, and next time I'll check a lot more thoroughly. Luckily, it looks like my LGS will be very understanding about this. That does however prevent me from mail ordering from discount stores. My LGS is amazing, but it's a long way from where I live and only gives 10% discount in store, compared to the 20% discount you can get from some online stores.

I'm still shocked that GW have reduced the quality of their products, that's one thing I never expected of them, and i definitely think this reduction in quality (if necessary at all) should have been accompanied by a big reduction in price, a la Mantic's doubling the numbers of minis in their boxes that changed from metal to resin. Increasing the prices and claiming these are the best miniatures ever produced is just a con.

Edit: spotted 2 more air bubbles. D'oh!

There's an easy solution to all of this.

Don't buy GW rules and models.

Definitely looking at alternatives. Eagerly awaiting warpath minis, and me and my buddies play using our own home-spun rules.

Kilkrazy wrote:There's an easy solution to all of this.

Don't buy GW rules and models.

People have been suggesting this from the start....in the end, I think, very few people will heed these words of wisdom. The result, ever more posts complaining about GW in some form or another....ah well.

Just want to say I like finecast.

I have heard the quality issues were a result of going into large scale production, things that are impossible to catch in small test prduction batches. My local GW said that they've found the issues in the QC and they'll be able to fix it going forward. I know I will wait for second wave casts and see how they turn out, but I think that's a reasonable explination

Looks like Hitler just heard about the price increase....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXVKj0KcbIQ

Dysartes wrote:

winterdyne wrote:I'm now up to 9 (NINE) miscast Captain Sterns in a row.

Out of interest, are you seeing the same flaws each time?

To clarify, I rejected 5 out of hand in the store. Some of these were either warped out of true, had obvious nasty bubbles, or came from torn moulds, leaving either mould rubber or chunks of resin attached to the mini where it would be extremely difficult to remove.

Of the ones I've actually opened and examined at home (4), for the most part, yes:

Air bubbles at the bottom of the model, knocking corners off the feet, cloak, greaves. Varying size and severity. A consistent air bubble knocking a corner off the bolter casing. All need the greenstuff breaking out - I ignore anything that can be fixed by simple surfacing.
Warping taking parts out of true, with fixes being difficult.
Mould slipping on a couple of occasions, with the line of offset passing through detail that would be difficult to fix (the book title on his left hip).

I would actually say that 2 of the pieces I've had would have been marginally acceptable at about a third to maybe a quarter the price (<£5 per miniature). At the price they're marketed, no way in hell do these pass muster.

Sidstyler wrote:

legion4500 wrote:Whats the worst they can do?

Insinuate that I'm a liar trying to get free stuff?

I'm not sure why they would do that to thebadabwar, if it's true then I hope it was just because he was calling about several boxes at once because if I were the guy on the phone I can see why that might sound fishy.

Yes, it is true! I am sending multiple boxes back. I am sending one of the boxes back for the 2nd time. Next time I’ll just take them back to the GW store. The guy at Customer Service told me that they changed their policy recently after some guy ripped them off and I had to send them the boxes first. So, obviously I am trying to rip them off since that new policy only applies to me.

Maybe there's hope after all, since the Chaos and Dark Elf sorcerors previewed here http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/375392.page are blisters of single plastic minis rather than resin. Maybe they were using resin as a stopgap to replace everything with plastic.

+Add to Wishlist.

Where are these cast and checked? Are they made in the UK?