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Agamemnon2 wrote:

Voodoo Boyz wrote:Therion has got it right, though to be honest I don't understand most of the whining because I don't see Marines being some kind of super dominant tournament army with this kit, but without seeing the book - who knows.

And yeah, where's the old style Dakka that took it in stride, you guys are making this place look like Warseer!

I'm sorry, but that's a load of hogwash. This forum has always been like this, what you're experiencing is nostalgia for something that never existed, nothing more.

This is probably true, but I recall many times when I joined & read Dakka when I started gaming that there was a fair amount of "oh just deal with it using X, Y, Z".

Honestly I think it's slowed that Marneus is getting stupid good rules, but it's not like anything else that the Marines are already losing. OK, they're getting one character who will have combat status similar to a Chaos Tzeench Demon Prince but will cost more and will sill only move 6" if he plans to assault something.

Standard procedure still applies to handling him just like you would any other super assault unit in 5th. Let him eat a squad (hopefully taking some parting power fist shots), and then shoot the hell out of his unit & repeat the process.

I hardly see the changes the SM are getting being something that will make them stand up to the current powerful armies in the game in comparison with what they have now. Marneus gets some fanboy styled rules that make him look cool, but I doubt he'll be the "Eldrad for Marines" that some people think he's going to be. Personally I'd rather have the twinlinked Meltas + free Thunderhammers for Vet Sarges that the Salamanders guy brings to the table if I wanted to powergame with marines going by the rumors.

migsula wrote: What a thread this turned out to be.

And for the record, Dakka faithful have alway panicked and whined about every possible new release. I still remember the panic of Codex Armageddon, or how everything was utterly lost with the Tau and s5 weapons for all of them... It's part of the fun and always brings out a few well drafted and logical responses that remind you why Dakka is a good forum.

Tau are getting S5 weapons?!?!?!!?

yakface wrote:
Please cease the needless badmouthing of other forums.

Any further cases will result in your post being removed and possible account suspension.

Apologies from me then, B&C is good people in my book, can't argue with that color scheme either. I do wonder how the SM rumors are going down over there, where the impact is even bigger than over here in the Land of Dak ...

- Salvage

Points will go up :(

Agamemnon2 wrote:

Voodoo Boyz wrote:And yeah, where's the old style Dakka that took it in stride, you guys are making this place look like Warseer!

I'm sorry, but that's a load of hogwash. This forum has always been like this, what you're experiencing is nostalgia for something that never existed, nothing more.

yeah, I agree Nostalgia isn't as good as it used to be...

PaniC.

After resisting starting a Spaze Marine army for 11 years, I might actually start one this fall. It sounds like it might be possible to actually do something fun with them rather then just spam las/plas squads.

GrandWarmasterPinto wrote:I was merely commenting that from a "Fluff" standpoint, I mean, if the greatest warlord of chaos (Abbadon) is the same as a Chapter Master do the gifts of the gods of chaos, countless battles, and centuries upon centuries of experience count for nothing? I can understand people like Logan Grimnar, and Marneus Calgar being equals to the Great Despoiler but now it's looking like every master can just come out of the word work and smack down the Imperium's most hated enemy.

But by your own logic, any Space Marine player could wonder how some po-dunk Renegade Warband leader, i.e. someone using Abbaddon as "counts-as", could be more powerful then the paragon of Space Marine heroes. Or how some random Farseer is as grand as the legendary Eldrad. Or how some Warboss is the second-coming of Ghazghkull...

Don't let the "counts-as" game mechanic ruin the storyline you enjoy.

I wasn't talking about "counts-as" as much as just the increase in new high powered marine special characters like Tu'Shan and all the people with army wide special rules (I mean I've never really heard of some of these characters). I myself use "counts-as" for certain things, I actually think it's a fun concept.

YMMV

migsula wrote: What a thread this turned out to be.

And for the record, Dakka faithful have alway panicked and whined about every possible new release. I still remember the panic of Codex Armageddon, or how everything was utterly lost with the Tau and s5 weapons for all of them... It's part of the fun and always brings out a few well drafted and logical responses that remind you why Dakka is a good forum.

I reject your reality and substitute my own.

They need to air more new episodes of that show, I love it.

New episodes coming August 6th, I believe.

budro wrote:After resisting starting a Spaze Marine army for 11 years, I might actually start one this fall. It sounds like it might be possible to actually do something fun with them rather then just spam las/plas squads.

Has it really been 11 years of Las/Plas?

Anyway, I for one welcome the death to the old "spase mareinz (HURR!!!)" crowd, and long live the new "spase mareinz (HURR!!!)" crowd!

Maybe this time, it will actually be true!

I enjoy the diversity of opinions all along the spectrum that is what makes the forum interesting. Without it I think it would be quite boring.

Alpharius wrote:

budro wrote:After resisting starting a Spaze Marine army for 11 years, I might actually start one this fall. It sounds like it might be possible to actually do something fun with them rather then just spam las/plas squads.

Has it really been 11 years of Las/Plas?

Not really. It was 6 years of rhino rush followed by 4 years of las/plas. Not that the las/plas squad wasn't seen in 3rd edition, but it's ubiquity was a phenomenon of 4th ed.

Voodoo Boyz wrote:And yeah, where's the old style Dakka that took it in stride, you guys are making this place look like Warseer!

So I'm not the only one thinking that...

BYE

whitedragon wrote:Tau are getting S5 weapons?!?!?!!?

And their Railguns can shoot through hills!!!

BYE

Tau, why do i always have to play them. Oh ye the only guy who i play plays tau.

Nah, it's been 11 years of las/plas. I didn't buy any Rhinos for my SM until I figured out that 5th Ed would be about Objectives and Transports.

Marines going up to 16pts, meh.

marine players trying to fit all this cool stuff in to 1500pts and have a decent army at the end, be interesting to see....

Oh, they'll have some great armies, with awesome abilities in 1500 points. And about 20 figures. They better pray for God's own first turn.

The 3+ Invul save for the Terminators seems kinda ridiculous and -2 Ld for being assaulted with a Land Speeder?

H.B.M.C. wrote:

whitedragon wrote:Tau are getting S5 weapons?!?!?!!?

And their Railguns can shoot through hills!!!

BYE

What will GW think of next?!!! Surely not Space Marine Special Characters that can swing their x2 Powerfists at Initiative!?!??!

Actually Dakka has gone through a great many changes over the past 10+ years.

Yes, 10+ years - if you don't remember Dakka back when it was a small league site then you haven't seen the full breadth that Dakka has been.

I won't go into comparisons on what's better or worse - my personal opinion is that the Dakka of today is simply different. Some things have gotten better, some things worse, and once it's all been washed that's about all you can really say - that the times have changed dramatically.

GrandWarmasterPinto wrote:I was merely commenting that from a "Fluff" standpoint, I mean, if the greatest warlord of chaos (Abbadon) is the same as a Chapter Master do the gifts of the gods of chaos, countless battles, and centuries upon centuries of experience count for nothing?

Yes.

That's cool just wondering.

His Master's Voice wrote:

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:Same for Chaos. I mean why should I use C:CSM anymore? If I'm going to be forced to do a "counts as" army (which is basically what the Chaos codex forces 89% of the Chaos legions to do) why wouldn't I have them "counts as" the army from the codex with more options?

Brilliant. All those poor suckers who have fully painted Armored Companies should now play them as Nidzilla. Or better yet, I'll play my D-Eldar with Ork rules, because the Ork codex has more options.

I don't see any reason why not. If GW $hits on your army why not just make it "counts as" a better one?

I don't understand all the crying. From what I have read this new codex sounds weak. Apparently all the bitching and crying last year by the haters convinced the developers to nerf Space Marines.

G