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So is DE all but formally confirmed next or what?

I dunno if I'll end up playing them, but I think I'll probably pick up a codex and a few kits either way. Voting with my wallet and all that.

I really think that we as players need to stand up and show that long-forgotten xeno codices don't need to be high-risk ventures.

Kroothawk wrote:We don't have a general opinion about the new GK Codex, no news, no facts. Only a rumour from several sides that there will be a Grey Knight Codex in the near future. Only once source said that the emphasis will shift from Inquisition, not ruling out that Inquisition might get their own rules set/ supplement.

Can we wait with the whining and doomsaying until we have something concrete to talk about?

This is Dakka young one, you will learn in time.

Kroothawk wrote:We don't have a general opinion about the new GK Codex, no news, no facts. Only a rumour from several sides that there will be a Grey Knight Codex in the near future. Only once source said that the emphasis will shift from Inquisition, not ruling out that Inquisition might get their own rules set/ supplement.

Can we wait with the whining and doomsaying until we have something concrete to talk about?

You must be new here?

Edit: Curses. Ninja snark'd.

HBMC you poor bastard how many armies have you had invalidated now..

I think your name stands for Horrible Black Magic Curse.

HBMC i dont want Inquisitors to be squatted.

I like killing them. Its part of my fluff for my Chaos Army. And my Angels of Absolution like to make em vanish mysteriously too.

Now what i was getting it was your comment sounded a bit too much like those DE players that do not want a new codex because they might lose the one list they like to play.

More against that sentiment than anything else.

Inquisitors might get a temporary squat. If you are so loyal about Inquisition then stick it out.

GW wont stop selling a product line that they got the perfect excuse for keeping as metal. And that should sell as hot stuff when allowed in a fluffy manner. At worst i except you to hang in balance for a short while, before the Inquisition comes back.

I could see stuff happening like incorporated IG, and Special Space Marines showing up. Squatting the allies system in both directions. Basically you get IG/Space Marines in a IQ list, but ruleswise they are part of the codex and not bought from somewhere else.

Maybe they even rewrite the fluff, so you get Deathwatch for alienhunters, IQ GK Terminators for Daemonhunters, and IQ Celestias for Witchhunters.

Maybe. Thinking along the lines of pimped up elites from another codex . One can dream?

I always wanted the deathwatch rules but could never ffind them.

DOOOOM!!!!

Digressing for a moment:

Exorcist, point for point the most effective unit VS infantry or armor IMO. It handles both just as well, a little unreliably perhaps, but it averages 3 shots at str 8 ap1 per turn.
With the possibility of 6.

Target priority becomes the issue, do you take out the unit of terminators or the dakka pred.

Back to the topic:

Grey Knight codex...not an inquisition codex, multiple sources from multiple forums, the most recognizable names being Harry, Brimstone (before his passing), and a more recent rumormonger, but one who had a hand in early descriptions of Sanguinary guard, Daemon Prince Adralmalech (sp?).

As for solid news/rumors as to specifics:

Stormraven WILL be in the codex.

"what if they all wear artificer armor?" -Harry, also "I still don't know which of these two (DE or GK) codexes is next."

Jump pack GK's.

I think the next 40K codecise to come out will be:

Dark Eldar
Inquisitor
Necron
Black Templars
Eldar
6th Ed Rulebook
Tau Empire

I'm not sure so don't quote me on this. This may be in the wrong order and there could possibly be some more inbetween. Any new codecise released between the end of this year and the release of the 6th Ed rulebook will not make much sense in 5th Ed rules but will when the 6th Ed rules come out. Again, not sure about that but it's what I think will happen.

Terminus wrote:Well, almost all of those things are not Inquisitorial forces.

If you say so.

Terminus wrote:Arbites are local cops that can be pressed into service like IG or Marines (and frankly, I agree with their removal from the game, because they are used locally to capture psykers/destroy cults/etc., not taken off-world to fight Daemons and Ork incursions).

The Arbites have a strong history of working with the Inquisition. Judges are considered to be close allies of the Inquisition.

Next...

Terminus wrote:- Arco-Flagellants are an Ecclessiarchy monstrosity.

And given the close ties between the Ecclesiarchy and the Ordo Hereticus, they work pretty well together.

Next...

Terminus wrote:- Death Cultists are also Ecclessiarchy.

They're not specifically related to the Adeptus Ministorum either, so no.

Next...

Terminus wrote:- Valkyries are not a legal choice unless you're using Forge World.

FW = GW, and is legal and does not require opponent permission. Says so right in the book. And that really has nothing to do with the discussion at hand either.

Next...

Terminus wrote:- While the DH/WH books made Inquisitors required to field assassins, pretty much every major branch/ordo/office/whatever of the Imperium utilizes them at one point or another.

Every branch? Not really. I will agree here that they were put into the DH/WH books to avoid having a separate Assassins Codex.

Terminus wrote:- Hell, even the Storm Troopers are just more inducted/temporary units borrowed from elite Guard regiments.

No they're not. The Inquisition maintains standing units of Inquisitorial Storm Troopers.

Terminus wrote:So all you have is the Inquisitor himself and Daemonhosts. Again, you're not losing much of anything.

If they remove everything we just talked about, I lose an army. I'd consider that 'much of anything'.

I know that you want to see all the Rogue's Gallery units dropped, just like JohnnyDD has a raging hard-on to see everything Inq/GK dropped in favour of the One True Sisters Codex to Rule Them All, but consider the fact that, as we have been saying, the expansion and revision of GK's and SoB's does not require or even necessitate the dropping of the non-GK and non-SoB side of the Inquisition.

The two can co-exist, as they have done for 8 years. Why do you want these units to be gone?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Shaman wrote:HBMC you poor bastard how many armies have you had invalidated now..

I think your name stands for Horrible Black Magic Curse.

I decided to pre-empt GW a while back and got myself a full Deathwatch army - an army that doesn't even have rules yet (and probably never will).

To be fair, a Deathwatch army could be done viable with a counts as Pedro leading some Sternguard, and Arbites as Marine Scouts.

Longer than that. Arbites were in the Slaves to Darkness Inquisition (Ordo Malleus) list along with Inducted Imperial Guard and Space Marines (Space Marines were more like allies though).

Personally my bet is the inducted stuff goes before anything else along with the option to put Inquisition stuff in other armies (outside of Apocalypse games).

Yes that sounds spot on .

In response to Brother SRM.

@H.B.M.C.:
Your argumentation is not getting to the point.

1.) Everyone works well together with the Inquisition, if asked nicely

2.) Only the following units are pure Inquisition without ecclesiarchy:
- Inquisitor (with parts of the retinue, Crusader and Penitent and Ordo Hospitalis and Dialogis part of Ecclesiarchy)
- Assassins
- Death Cultists (their own cult not part of ecclesiarchy)
- Inquisitional Guard/Arbites (but can be easily substituted by some auxiliary troops or even Redempionists)
- Orbital Strike (poor excuse for not having enough heavy units)
We don't know of any of these, if they will be dropped. Much too early to tell. Maybe we even get a supplement or WD rules that allow ALL Imperial armies to have these forces as allies. This is one speculation.

3.) Arco flagellants, Penitent engines and Repentia are clearly ecclesiarchy troops, the first two even requiring a preacher to supervise them. So they will certainly stay. I would love to see more church units, first of all Redemptionists. If only to not make this army look like a copy/paste of the DH book. And it is easy to imagine a church leader having the same rules as an Inquisitor, one female WH Inquisitor even looks like one.

4.) The Codex is legal. FW rules are forbidden for most tournaments, for a reason. And those Valkyrie rules from the 90s are certainly dated, including the flyer rules. And even if they were legal, it is never wrong to ask your opponent to include something special like flyers. Remember: noone is forced to play against you. And your Arbites shotguns wouldn't like to face 3 Baneblades without warning

BTW I have just "lost" 6 Carnifex and 24 Spinegaunt models with the new Codex, so change happens.
And if everything goes wrong, I can recommend you another Codex with lots of Storm Troopers and valkyries.

Edit: Here is a dated 3rd edition fanmade Codex Adeptus Arbites: http://hem.spray.se/kendoka2/arbites/necromunda_aa.htm

*ducks the flames and venom spitting*

People, people i have heard a few more obscure rumors about the splitting up of the Inq and SoB, and it may be that your both right.

There has been talk that the SoB will be split off from WH and WH will be phased into a main Inq 'dex. The main Inq 'dex will be representative of all the ordo (could be something like sagas for the space wolves except only your Inquisitors will have although that is pure speculation). The SoB will be mainly Sisters but will represent all of the eccleisiarchy's military forces. There has been no talk of deatwatch inclusions but with the introduction of a Deathwatch RPG it may not be out of the question for them to be included. Arbites are out.

Now make sure to take this with heavy amounts of salt because the rumors were not exactly reliable but It could be true and I am strangely comfortable with this setup for the codexes.

I just hope its true

Black Temps? Really? A second found chapter still needs a codex?
Glad to hear about the DE's though, its about damn time.

So will the new dakkadakka meme be "Have you seen those GK greens?"

I've got a few things to say and ask that may kickstart some healthy discussion...

First off, a modern codex has between 30-40 distinct units in it. Assuming that inducted guard and allied space marines are done (I feel that is a safe assumption). And assuming that "grey knights" means that sisters of battle are not getting folded in to one 'inquisition' codex, then what we are likely to have is a codex with a LOT of new never before seen units.

A codex entitled "Grey Knights" isn't necessarily devoid of inquisition models. I think that the title of the codex just rightly demonstrates that this game is about military battles, and the 40k gustapo is unlikely to call the shots from a battlefield commander perspective.

Perhaps this codex still includes elite inquisitors, inquisitor lords, assassins, and storm troopers. But without the inducted guard angle, the narrative would be much more about a grandmaster prosecuting a campaign, with guidance, advice, assistance from the inquisition.

Keeping with the current model of at LEAST 30 distinct units in a modern 'dex. Lets see how far we can get with the models produced by GW

inquisitor lord and retinue
grey knights grand master

inquisitor and retinue (how distinct is this from the lord?)
grey knight terminators
assassins (4 different types)
death cult assassins (another assassin entry?)
demonhost

grey knights
inquisitorial storm troopers

grey knight teleport attack (terrible thinly veiled effort to put at least one unit in a FOC)

grey knight purgation squad
land raider
land raider crusader
dreadnought
orbital strike (really? that is not an FOC unit, just another desperate attempt to fill out the book)

rhino
chimera

brother captain stern
torquemada coteaz

Even if we count the teleport squad and the orbital bombardment. That is a mere 18 units. At very least we should expect to see 12 completely new unique units. Probably 3 more special characters, probably at least 3 new fast attack options, some more heavy support options as well, and perhaps fill out the abilities and fieldability of each different assassin type.

Now to the folks expecting and or hoping for a pure GK force... here is your starting point...

brother captain stern

grand master

grey knight terminators

grey knights

grey knight teleport attack

grey knight purgation squad
dreadnought
land raider
land raider crusader

Thats 9 total units. Just to hit the baseline of 30 distinct units you'd have to increase the unit count by over 300%. As a game designer it would seem like I'm basically starting from scratch. At this point GW would rightly be seeking anything and everything that could be bundled together to make a mega-codex.

From a fluff perspective, I agree that police forces and 'state' agents should be left out of battlefields. Say what you want about the inquisitorial mandate, and about how rigorous the inquisitorial agent training is. They should be stalking in the shadows, hunting down heretics, mutants and alien interlopers. But when their investigation hits the point where artillery flies and squadrons of tanks are facing off against each other, I think they contact their friendly local militant wing, tell them what they need accomplished, and then help facilitate that by continuing to do what they do. Investigate , sneak around, and provide connections.

That can and should probably be represented by elite choice inquisitor units that provide in-game buffs to nearby units or de-buffs to enemy units. There just isn't any other way to fill out a grey knights codex without their inclusion.

One other thing... I don't want to see jump pack grey knights at all... but whoever mentioned jetbike grey knights... i have to say that sounds awesome!

Not sure why you would need jumpacks...just give em all the teleport option and still let them stay troops.

All I have to say about Sisters getting an update is in this thread:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/273901.page

combatmedic wrote:
So will the new dakkadakka meme be "Have you seen those GK greens?"

lol

Kroothawk wrote:3.) Arco flagellants, Penitent engines and Repentia are clearly ecclesiarchy troops, the first two even requiring a preacher to supervise them. So they will certainly stay. I would love to see more church units, first of all Redemptionists.

Redemptionists and (most importantly) Frateris Militia!

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:3.) Arco flagellants, Penitent engines and Repentia are clearly ecclesiarchy troops, the first two even requiring a preacher to supervise them. So they will certainly stay. I would love to see more church units, first of all Redemptionists.

Redemptionists and (most importantly) Frateris Militia!

While it certainly could be re-written, doesn't the current fluff prohibit the Ecclesiarchy from having male soldiers? Or am I thinking of something else? Or are you just being facetious? Ok...I've thought about it, you're being facetious.

Per the Fluff, the Frateris Militia aren't Ecclesiarchy forces per se, as they don't formally report to the Ecclesiarchy.

Ostrakon wrote:So is DE all but formally confirmed next or what?

I dunno if I'll end up playing them, but I think I'll probably pick up a codex and a few kits either way. Voting with my wallet and all that.

I really think that we as players need to stand up and show that long-forgotten xeno codices don't need to be high-risk ventures.

Agreed. I'll pick up a box or two. I may end up only using them as bits for basing, or if I ever feel like doing a diorama of SM kicking some DE ass, but I agree how important it is to show GW that distributing some love to the non-power armored armies.

Shep wrote:I've got a few things to say and ask that may kickstart some healthy discussion...

*STUFF*

One other thing... I don't want to see jump pack grey knights at all... but whoever mentioned jetbike grey knights... i have to say that sounds awesome!

I like where you're going with this. Some new GK units could be cool. Especially some retconned imperial Jetbikes.

Commander Endova wrote:I agree how important it is to show GW that distributing some love to the non-power armored armies.

You do know that buying DE aren't the only option available, right?

You could start a brand new Nid army, pick up a Imperial Superheavy Company for Apocalypse, or simply jump into War of the Ring... Any of those choices would be more than acceptable as far as GW is concerned.

Don't you mean acceptable as far as you're concerned DD. You just can't stand the idea that DE are next.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Commander Endova wrote:I agree how important it is to show GW that distributing some love to the non-power armored armies.

You do know that buying DE aren't the only option available, right?

You could start a brand new Nid army, pick up a Imperial Superheavy Company for Apocalypse, or simply jump into War of the Ring... Any of those choices would be more than acceptable as far as GW is concerned.

I think 'Nids have always been a pretty popular army, since they have received updates with far more frequency than some of the others. Imperial super heavies are by no means new, and have done well enough, financially . WotR is another game system, and so probably wouldn't be relevant in a data analysis of WH40K sales. Other than that, I don;t have interest in any of those examples, as I don;t want to play a new army, rather, I wish to show GW, through my purchases, that investing significant time and resources into updating some of the older Xeno lines can be financially lucrative.

You obviously have an issue with Dark Eldar. I'm not partial to them either. I simply view their new line of models and books as the most poignant example of a correction of a long standing issue I see with GW's practice's. I'd ask that you make no further attempts to involve me in your vendetta against a certain army.

@Endova:

Dude, you play 40k, and Nids are the latest non-MEQ book. You play IG, so Superheavies for Apoc are a natural extension. And WotR is a pretty "safe" option when unknown rules changes in WFB8 are right around the corner.

Personally, I have no problem with the DE getting an update. They've needed it for a long time. As for BT's, personally I was hoping the new marine relase would be Dark Angels. Out of the non-GK marine codexes, theirs is the one that contains the most suck. Most people say "They were done just 2 years ago. They won't get one for a while." To that I say, the BA's were updated right after the DA's fourth edition codex. Sure it was a crappy PDF update, but an update is an update.

Yep DA were part of the line of crappy 4th ed codices.

Just like Tau and most importantly Chaos.

They managed to cut out alot of options without putting any new ones in.

Its a Codex that did not have a single new unit, a few new models (replacing existing ones).

(My DA function with the new SM Codex for a reason, as i had never touched the current DA one since i never played 4thed)

Pure suck yeah :S